Uncover Herbal Medicine For Prostate Cancer

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Hello everyone, and thank you once again for joining me on this amazing summit, the Prostate Cancer Summit. Today I have my friend and colleague, naturopathy doctor, naturopathic oncologist, natural perfect urologist. You've always asked, is there another urologist that's a is there another naturopath who specializes in urology? Yeah, this this guy. We're going to talk to you right now, doctor Eric Yarnell who's the chief medical officer at northwestern after pelvic urology. He has been in practice for close to 30 years.

Eric, do we is that considered now and when are you when do one become an elder in medicine? No, I'm never an elder. Young forever young for. Oh within the field. Within the field with others that you know, that's what that's the elder. You know, like last year was too many. You know, when when he was around. I don't know. Is it 30 years in practice? I've been in practice for, for 20, for 23 years now. So, in any event, you finish your bio, and then we'll get right to it. He has, So, Eric, now, doctor, you know, as a, approximately one third of his patients have prostate cancer.

So this is why we have, Doctor Yarnell is a chief creative officer of Wild Brilliance Press. Vice president. Heron Botanicals and CEO of Red hot Red Root Pharmaceuticals. Eric, I there's very few people that I think are more busy than I am. And you might be that guy. It sounds like you're doing many things. So thanks again for being on. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. Having thought of your bio, maybe I missed it. Is that not only are you a, expert in naturopathic urology, once again, there's not many, the book, the the book that hopefully is taught in every naturopathic medical school in urology.

You're also an expert botanical herbal medicine doctor. So yeah, that's what we we couldn't kind of go into prostate cancer. I always ask the question, why? Why naturopathic medicine? Why this love for botanicals and and the approach to medicinal elements, and your interest and curiosity in the medicinal elements of botanical medicine. Take it away. That's that's really where my story starts. That I was. I mean, I kind of ax. I really accidentally discovered that naturopathic medicine existed because that was before the internet, right?

So. That's right. People don't realize you couldn't just Google on those days. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So. But, yeah, I really loved the herbs. It just made sense to me. And it just, I don't know, it was it's such a rich, exciting thing. It's like there are these amazing plants all around that you could learn their names and how they're related to each other

Why Herbal Medicine Matters 3:10

and their chemistry, and they do all these incredible things. But and they're different than drugs. They're not just drugs in a different package. They really work differently. And especially this idea that there's, you know, hundreds of constituents working together. And just a really simple example of that is, you know, there are things in plants that are clearly attack prostate cancer cells, but there's also things that help prevent resistance. So cancer cells have ways of basically squirting those constituents out like get this this molecule is killing me.

They pump it out. Well there's other things in the plant that just gum up those pumps. So if you only look for constituents that kill the cell, you miss the synergy, right? You can't see that incredible benefit of the the interaction. So that stuff just constantly blows my mind. And every day a new thing comes up like that. That's like that is so exciting. It almost sounds. And I and I do know your philosophy on this, but it it almost sounds like you don't like when there's too much standardization and extraction of the chemicals of the herbs.

Talk a little bit about that, I really don't I really think we're losing an incredible richness, which I, I understand part of how that happens because again, we don't have the studies that are the studies just haven't been done to show a lot of what I'm saying. But every time they do look, when someone actually turned their, you know, their scientific attention to wait, what about these? All these other things in this plant besides this one constituent? Oh, they have these other actions we weren't looking for.

Because in science, if you don't look, you can't see, right. You're not going to just catch these random effects. Your, your, your experiment is set up to look for one thing. And so anyway. But when they do start looking for these other actions, they, they see them. So it also I think makes sense. It's a different kind of information. But this is a valid kind of information that we have historical knowledge. Right people, there's a reason we eat turmeric and not some other plant. That's common right?

Why is turmeric? Why is that been eaten and used as medicine for tens of thousands of years? It's because people figured it out that it's beneficial, right? So we can lean on that, that we don't know the details from that, but we know there's a value to the whole thing. And it's not just this one curcumin molecule, it's all the other stuff in there. So yeah, I think it's important. Another crazy thing really briefly I want to mention yes, please. It turns out, just like humans know, we have our normal bacteria inside of our digestive tracts and on our skin, everything.

Well, plants due to plants have bacteria growing all over them. They're not bad bacteria. They're good bacteria. That may be a whole nother piece of how herbs work, that they basically are probiotics. Like you're you're kind of eating the dirt by eating the plants because the soil microbes get on the plants. And these are the good soil microbes. So I think we're also our, our fascination with like we have to kill all the bacteria is really harming the medicine. It's like, wait a minute. And there there is some preliminary evidence that's showing that some of how herbs work are because these are the bacteria that are on them and in them.

How mind blowing is that? So it is mind blowing and I would think, Eric, that if when you're making a tincture, which is almost always is either is almost always with alcohol, that that will kill much of the bacteria that's there. What's, what's what's the thinking behind that? Two things that you you may kill it, but also the cells are still there. You haven't taken away the what's inside the cell. So it's the stuff the bacteria makes is still around. But also it may not actually be killing the bacteria there.

So I just read this incredible study. They were looking at the plant aloe people, and I think no aloe pretty well. They, they put the alcohol on the leaves. They also put this extremely strong like bleach solution on the leaves. And then they cultured it and there were still bacteria growing. And it's like whoa, whoa whoa whoa, right. Those two things are the kill everything. Everything. Right. Mind blowing. Yeah. Fascinating. Fascinating. All right, so as it relates to prostate cancer. What are the what are your that let me let me ask this correctly because I, we could we could I was gonna say what are your top herbs for prostate cancer.

And everybody has their top things. But we could go down a rabbit hole maybe that we don't want to go to. Oh, at least yet, what herbal medicines are best to support the immune system so we can best fight prostate cancer? Well, I struggle to always answer this, but okay, I'm going to go with, an answer that's a little bit surprising, perhaps. Let me phrase a question a mushroom. Let me free. Let me rephrase the question a little bit differently. And for context, I think that's best in my opinion.

And I can't say that this is your opinion because I don't know. It is. I don't know that we have a horrible chemotherapeutic drug that has a direct effect on cancer cells in the human body. It might be, you know, pre-clinical and things, but in the human body, if I take this herb, this herb will kill these cancer cells and leave the healthy cells alone. I don't know that that's the case. Right. What I, what I try to do with my patients, and I believe many of us try to do as well, is how do we create a micro environment that's hostile to these tumors and around these tumors so that something happens positive?

Maybe there's no progression that's a positive. You keep the cancer, there is not really a problem. Maybe there's some regression, maybe not 100%, but maybe because the micro environment is just so unfavorable to these tumor cells. So along that, along that way of thinking, that frame of thinking, one of the things to do that is, you know, if I keep my immune system and certain elements of my immune system really strong, then you know that that creates that hostile environment that I'm looking for.

So from an immune perspective and a immuno immuno purple perspective, what would you recommend along those lines? So yeah I'm I'm going to start with turkey tail mushrooms. So the reason I'm a little hesitating about that is we don't actually have prostate cancers like the one cancer. We don't really have studies. Yeah with turkey tail but it's like every other solid tumor.

Immune-Supportive Mushrooms for Prostate Cancer 10:20

So meaning as opposed to blood cancer. So, we have evidence that the turkey tail is amazing. We actually at, so I work at Bastia University. We had a huge grant to study turkey tail in humans with prostate cancer. And I don't know if you remember, listeners may recall, there was this big thing called the sequester that happened during Barack Obama's presidency, and we lost our funding because of that. So that we were we were going to publish, finally, a clinical trial, and we couldn't do it. So we and I helped them develop the placebo for that and all this stuff.

I was so excited anyway. But first you tell me mushroom is an amazing mushroom. It's, grows all around the northern hemisphere, so it grows in Asia as well as in the Americas. And it's but it's and you can just eat it. But it's like mushroom chewing gum, like you just chew. And to add to it, it never breaks down. So it's it's kind of unpleasant. It doesn't taste bad. It's just this weird rubbery texture. So it's it's pretty clear that like all mushrooms, it actually gets stronger as you process it.

Which for most food, it's like the worst thing you can do, right? But actually grinding it up to powder, cooking it, freezing it, these things actually make it work better. And it's because the mushroom has these big, complicated sugar molecules that are like fiber, and we have to break it into pieces so that we can absorb it, and it can get to our immune cells and tell them, hey, there's cancer. You know, like you say, keep it under control, maybe attack it and kill whatever. Exactly it does. And so, yeah, I found that just to be really, really important based treatment, there is research.

So since there's sometimes limited research in the world of prostate cancer, I have to look at the cousin of prostate cancer and see what's in breast cancer. And there's always more research in breast cancer. And I say, look, I feel comfortable taking that information and taking that product or that herb and apply it in and prostate cancer. Do you have a similar a similar approach? Absolutely. Yeah. And that's we definitely have turkey deal studies with breast cancer patients that look really, really good.

I mean, the best research is with people with, liver and stomach and esophageal cancer. But that's because this mushroom has mostly been studied in Asia. And those are the most common cancers in Asia. So it's not that they work better for that. But yeah, it's absolutely I agree. And I will also say there are at least animal studies with prostate cancer for turkey tail. So we're not completely pulling from other areas. But. Right. And even also studies in healthy people showing that it even it can increase like their what are called their natural killer cells are there some really important cancer fighting cells that they become more active.

So I think we have a good basis and it is truly, really safe. I just you're just not going to see side effects from it. So it's what we do a little bit have that. What do we have to lose. Kind of a what do we have to lose and probably some to gain for sure. Yeah. Any ideas that come to mind? Even other mushrooms. What what would be your, top three? So we have turkey tail. And what would be the other two for immune element to create this microenvironment that we are looking for. I'd also really, really strongly more as a food, more people to talk mushrooms that we do have some human studies specifically in guys with prostate cancer and that's, you know, it's a delicious one.

So that's nice. And by the way, it's only like 3 or 4 Schottky a day. We're not talking about you have to eat like a plate full of this huge amount. So it's really, really doable. But also not a mushroom. I say my third biggest one is, is, pancakes, ginseng or Asian ginseng, not the famous ginseng. Yeah. Now. But the other part of my answer to you is why I can't answer this, of course. Is there actually is no herb for cancer? There are herbs for people that have cancer. And as we all know, right?

You have to treat the person. So every person different your situation. So ginseng is especially important if someone is also on therapy and it's causing anemia or it's lowering their white blood cells. Lack of ginseng is really, really effective for raising that. So I've got a couple guys on the docetaxel chemotherapy for example for prostate cancer and their doctors keep saying maybe this isn't working. I mean they're PSA is are going down. It's working. But like their white blood cell counts don't drop.

And it's like always drops with that chemo drug. And it's not dropping. And I'm like I think it's the ginseng. I really do because there's some evidence supporting that. That's why I gave it to them. So, so the tricky thing with ginseng is that it's, it's it's a threatened and endangered species in the wild, so it's really important to buy it cultivated, which mostly it is. And then it's just a matter where you're getting it. How is it grown? You know, is it clean. So that's where it's really important to work with a knowledgeable provider who can guide you to companies that are only going to have good products.

Right. Because there's plenty of bad actors on the internet that that's where, frankly, are selling terrifying things. Exactly. Yeah. What I and I know I mentioned that, you know, again, I don't want to impose my views on anyone, including you. Right. So I know I said, look, I don't know that any of these herbs can attack and get rid of cancer cells. Let me pose that question to you. I don't know, are there can you know even remotely possible where you consume this or and somehow it gets to where it needs to get to and kind of can can you can disintegrate prostate cancer cells specifically?

Are there do those herbs exist especially as you know. Absolutely. I have no doubt that that's a thing. I think the one of the tricky aspects of that is that the difference from the chemotherapy is definitely in how they, they do it, and thus the clinical result. But, I mean, I could definitely share quite a few papers that without a doubt sell a wide range of herbs, killing prostate cancer cells, certainly in the test tube, certainly in animals. And then we have some human studies where it's like, well, we gave them this substance there.

Their PSA went down. What other explanation do we have? And then they looked it wasn't the immune system, no evidence of that. So one of the best examples of that is Artemisia. Anywhere or sweet. Any it's that's called Qingdao and Chinese. Because that's where kind of we learned about that herb from, which has this compound in and called artemisinin and that be you know, it was developed to treat malaria, but it's really clearly anti-cancer. And there are many other papers where in people with other cancers, it's worked.

And I actually published a series. So this is not a formal clinical trial, but looking at patients I had given this to and not a select group, I looked at everyone I had given it to before and after. I didn't presuppose what happened and 80% of them, their PSA went down and that was the only difference in their treatment. No different from their exercise program or what they ate. Nothing. Well, yeah. So, and there are subsequently been,

Direct Anti-Cancer Herbs and Synergy 18:40

you know, many, many animal type paper supporting that. So we still don't have the full blown clinical trial. We would like to have to really prove that for prostate cancer, it's unlikely to happen or yes, because who is going to profit from spending millions of dollars. Yeah. To do that study. And they can't patent it. They can't make back that money. So it is a huge double standard for herbal medicine right there. Our system is set up to make it impossible to research right. What others you have to warn you even if it's, even if it's a a stretch.

Yeah. So I think the other the next best, you know, one if we're looking at can we go to research studies and support it would be well Oregon great Golden seal. Gold thread. There's a group of herbs that have this compound called berberine in them. And it's not just the berberine. It is the polar for both this one and the sweet honey. We have some of the best evidence for that. So well I was saying where they, they actually have compounds that prevent resistance to this. The other compounds in there that are directly anti-cancer.

So you want the whole herb, right. But yeah, these just really good evidence that they are killing cancer cells and other things. I mean, they also do have indirect effects that get to. I think your excellent point about we don't just kill the cancer cells. You have to change the whole environment. And part of that is actually making sure people's blood sugar is regulated. If you have high blood sugar, whether you're fully have diabetes or you're pre-diabetic, it doesn't matter that promotes cancer.

It really is important for the cancer to have that. So these are herbs also help to regulate people's blood sugar. So it's it's almost always we're whenever we use an herb and it's like well we're using it for this. The reality is it's for this that, that there's really a list of five things. So the, the, the beauty of herbal medicine is that it hits multiple pathways, which is exactly what you want. This is counter. This is zero a disease. So. Well, you know, how how how is cancer even developed?

Well, it's not one thing. It's many things, many reasons, many situations, biological situations. So don't we want to hit as many of those as possible. And that's one of the beautiful things about herbal medicine that it attempts to hit as many as many pathways as possible. Tell me about soursop. You, you you use this quite a bit and and is there, tell me about soursop as it relates to cancer and then maybe prostate cancer, more specifically, how soursop is, widespread tropical tree. And we're talking here about using the leaf very, very importantly, because there are problems with the fruit of soursop, that it might actually cause a Parkinson's disease like syndrome.

So, I'm only talking about the leaf, which doesn't seem to have any relationship to that problem whatsoever. And yet it has these very unusual compounds, which in its little three in its family of plants there. So it's like the only group of plants that have these things. They're called Anna. Nature's a seed of gentleness, as if anyone wants to know about it. Look that up. Yeah, that. Yeah. And. Yeah, just we have ample evidence of the two types usually have. We have, you know, the traditional medicine evidence that this was used for.

It looks like people with cancer and we have lots and lots of, you know, preclinical work with test tubes and etc., including prostate cancer cells and animal models of prostate cancer looking really promising. So but I like it again, because it's really safe. We don't see side effects. It looks like it. Is this another way to attack the cancer cells? And it's totally different than either of the two herbs I just mentioned or any of the chemotherapy. It doesn't work the way the ADT works, you know.

So it's this also gets to this other level of synergy of these, this very high level, these incredibly different ways of attacking cancer. You know, we're we're doing the immune attack at the same time as 3 or 4 different herbs coming after the cells directly. Like that's really important because cancer cells evolve, right. We know that with prostate cancer and they continue to evolve. So we have to continue to try to constrain that. So new worse clones don't come out right. Anyway, yeah that's why most like the soursop.

And it also seems to be one like the Oregon grape and berberine type of herbs that helps reduce inflammation, which is another aspect that seems to be in that microenvironment that promotes the prostate cancer. So again, hitting other bases. Thank you for that Eric. Don't most chemotherapeutic drugs that we use, many of them do come from plants. And one in particular that is used commonly in very advanced cases of prostate cancer is Taxol. So toxic Taxol or proxy Taxol. And that comes from the Pacific.

You plant. So why shouldn't I just take this Pacific plant therapeutically as opposed to the docetaxel. And this is not a this versus them or a chemo versus plant, but more like a curious question. If this particular chemical comes from this plant, why not take this plant or at least taken in as a in conjunction with something else or whatever else you're doing? Yeah, well I do in fact use specific. You again, this is this is definitely for someone with a more advanced disease. This is not for you don't need this if you're on active surveillance like this is to a chance.

But so there's several layers of answer to that. And again, it relates to the fact that we have to treat the person and not just say everyone with prostate cancer gets the same approach, of course. But the first answer does relate to people that are going to actually have docetaxel or are capacity or whatever, if they are going to be on one of those chemotherapies that again, we have pretty darn good information that there's other stuff in Pacific. You that prevent resistance. And that's one of the reasons that chemotherapy sometimes fails.

The cancer evolves and it can just spit the chemo right back out. It can't kill it. And so there's non Taxol vaccines related molecules that stop the cancer from spitting out the Taxol or the docetaxel. So that is actually I think really important to make the chemotherapy the best it can be. And it doesn't increase the side effects of the dose we're talking about is still low. But there is another level of someone who's not on one of those drugs that I have seen over and over and I never have used, just knew by itself.

Well, gosh, I say never. That's a little bit of a stretch. I almost never know when someone just you, but you combined with lots of other things played their PSA is get better or there. The main thing I see is just their survival is way longer than anyone expects. I mean, I saw a guy this week. In six years with stage four, it's still in his bones. It's still there. You can still see it. His PSA is in the hundreds and he's out rock climbing, doing judo like he's not sick right. So is he on ADT Andrew deprivation therapy.

He was on ADT but it stopped working as PSA went up to the hundred percent resistant. So he's resistant to that. And he's and now he is also doing high dose intravenous vitamin C I mean he's doing other treatment. So I can't say as you would expect and as I would you know, I'm not trying to do a study with this guy and say, only take specific you and nothing else and let's see how you do. Don't even exercise because then to actually design take cancer, just take this. Right. So yeah, no that's good.

Yeah. There's something there. Yeah. Are there any other plants like Pacific you that it's, you know, that is used or there's a chemical in it that's used in chemotherapy and conventional medical practices that we can look at as a whole. Herb. What would be 1 or 2 other ones?

Plant-Derived Chemotherapy and Mistletoe 27:30

Yeah. I think can come to my mind. The cruelest one is called Madagascar periwinkle. That really does mean if it's not, if it's not, the coolest one is a cool. Yes, it really does come from the island of Madagascar. That name is accurate for once, but it's not a periwinkle. That's a misleading, but whatever. So this is also become kind of a pan tropical weed. It's just everywhere I've been in Mexico, I've seen it there, I've been in Uganda. It grows everywhere there. So it's widely available. And but this is strongly traditionally used for people with diabetes and high blood pressure.

So that the cancer thing was discovered, incidentally. But it's the source of, these compounds called bean blasting and bean. Christy, that are used more to treat leukemia and lymphoma. So not prostate cancer. But, there are still studies that say those that this urban, those compounds actually could kill prostate cancer. Maybe. But again, it's like it doesn't have to like because it has these blood sugar benefits. Which that's really clear. I've actually, you know, mostly because as I mentioned, I did some work in Uganda, you know, mostly working with people with diabetes and hypertension.

And that was incredibly effective to help, just as a tea. So I see that really routinely in practice that you take that herb, it helps the blood sugar. So that's good. But, yeah, it really does seem to you can contribute to kind of PSA lowering. It seems like a, an herbal chemotherapy if you will kind of in effect, you know, we don't we don't know for certain. But it's that's a very exciting one in my mind. Let's see. And then I'm just, just completely blanking, but I what was I going to say? You're going to talk to both of you? That's right.

Well, third, a third, a third. Just call it a chemo, a chemo herb, a third. Chemo herb. There's a couple that I'm I don't want to talk about because they really, really I also want to emphasize, especially Pacific you. That is not something people should treat themselves with. That is there is potential serious side effects of taking too much of that. The cat, the Madagascar periwinkle. Almost. I don't I don't even know why anyone's afraid of that. Like that one I'm not so worried about. Or the, the soursop.

Those are really, really safe. But the U is starting to push into another realm, which. So I guess the other one that would be like that is, maple for anyone that. Oh, there's no east southeast. So it's a famous plant that, is also the source of some chemotherapy drugs that are mostly not used for prostate cancer. A top a side and ten up a side, but they're, but that one, basically, if you take too much, it becomes a cathartic laxative. I mean, you will definitely start pooping your brains out and or throwing up like it's it's miserable.

So it's another kind of dicey one that I don't recommend people treat themselves with, but it really does seem to have together with other treatment, never by itself. Kind of the same effect of, you know, loosely herbal chemotherapy. What are your thoughts on, mistletoe? It's commonly used in, in cancer as a, as a natural approach. I think it's fascinating. There are a couple of studies that have been done in Europe. So in Europe, that is the most common cancer treatment that we would say was whatever, integrative.

But in, in Europe there is a much more integrated medical system. So it's not so outside. But there are clinics all over Europe that specialize in mistletoe therapy. And so we do have a lot of research. So we have clinical trials for prostate cancer, mostly a pretty advanced stages that show real benefits. That's really clearly an immune treatment as well working very differently. So this is when it is injected into the skin. So that's important because you can't just go out and take it as a tea or a capsule or a tincture and get these effects.

When you take it as a tea. It's actually one of the most delicious herbs I've ever tasted. It's really pleasant. It's actually kind of like hawthorn, which is like a it's a cardiovascular tonic. So it helps strengthen your heart, helps kind of bring your blood pressure down a bit. And there's all this fear about mistletoe, but it's actually really safe. It is not a dangerous herb that people are getting poisoned on all the time or anything. And we know that because lots there's lots of kids that eat mistletoe around Christmas time because it's hanging up and they don't know better.

We actually have tens of thousands of emergency calls to poison control centers for mistletoe, and we know that like, no one's died in like 20 years from mistletoe ingestion. So it's actually really, really safe. But anyway, this injectable form that's inject in the skin is a whole different ball of wax. I, I've looked, so intravenous there, there are studies of doing that in Europe. The problem with this is it's in a very legal gray area in the United States. It's not clearly legal or illegal. It's so the Ivy thing would be really pushing the boundaries.

So I don't have any experience with that. But doing the skin injections, you know, for some people, it seems like it has kind of turned their case around. I will say, so I wish we could get again. And it's about money. It's not about whether it works, and it's about who is going to spend the money to get it approved. But they then don't really get the money back because the it's not patentable. It's already well known. So the system prevents it from being approved. And it's a real problem because I think it could really help people.

Or we need to know better if it could really help in some cases. And prostate cancer people undergo radiation. Other cases, they do hormonal deprivation therapy. Other cases, they do chemo like docetaxel or any other type of Taxol or even more aggressive chemo. What would be the herbs that one can take in conjunction. Right. So the issue I have with almost all radiation oncologist owners go away. Stay away from all supplements, stay away from all supplements. And actually many of the supplements that first of all, there is no evidence that antioxidants actually interfere with the benefits, of the radiation in any way, shape or form or protects the cancer.

So which is the argument number one. But let's just say that's true for argument taken, you know, super physiologic doses of, you know, antioxidants, 500mg of vitamin C. Yeah, that's going to do it. But anyway, let's just say that that's a problem. There are other herbs that, you know that I use that don't have a lot of antioxidant, action and activity that one can use very safely. So this is my explanation of this with radiation oncologist. What are those herbs that we can use during radiation, whether patient benefit, maybe protecting the healthy cells, maybe protecting the bladder and or end with also chemo.

During chemo. What are those herbs I see? I also have to point out there's this funny thing that happens where. But the radius oncologists are encouraging their patients to eat a diet that's high in fruits and vegetables, i.e. loaded with antioxidants. But I agree, they're mistaking studies on very high doses of simple vitamins that have shown some interference versus plant level, food level, or reasonable levels of natural vitamins, which we actually have a clinical trial from a cancer treatment centers in America in prostate cancer patients.

Yeah. On radiation therapy that reasonable doses of antioxidant vitamins were only beneficial. Yeah. But on the herbal front, the most general one that we've got some research on is our good old friend pomegranate juice, which is kind of a food kind of an herb. Where it did in the studies, they did have two eight ounces a day, which is a fairly hefty amount, but it's well worth it. So. And that has its own anti-cancer effects. As well as apparently being kind of a radio protectant for the healthy cells and, evidence, it may augment the anti-cancer activity of the radiation so that I feel like it's a no brainer.

And then I frequently use, aloe gel.

Herbs During Radiation and Chemotherapy 36:40

Going back to that, and that's not so much of a directly research based thing as for prostate cancer, but from other radiation treatments. And that is very much to prevent, especially the radiation damage to the rectum and the bladder, which man, once that happens, it's so bad it's so hard to treat I. Yeah. And so I really want to prevent it. You know, I also this is not an herbal thing but I have to really strongly urge people to take probiotics during radiation. One of the problems is that it does mess up the normal bacteria in the colon, and that causes quite a bit of other problems.

So, that's really useful. And then we, another thing I've already mentioned are those berberine containing herbs that they seem to especially help prevent GI conflict, like, you know, diarrhea. Some of the other side effects that can happen right, in the digestive system. Some people get a lot of cramping and pain, in which case, like fennel or peppermint can be really helpful. To calm that down. And all the ginseng that I already mentioned is also. Yeah. Yeah. Plastic. Yeah. And so moving on to, like, chemo if I have to go to chemo.

So then some of the side effects are fatigue. I'm assuming ginseng is perfect for that. Anything else that you know, it's safe. And hopefully the oncologist doesn't bark. At them taking it. And that possibly may even enhance the chemo. I'll give you an example that's not related to herbal treatments. I have my patients fast for about 24 hours before undergoing chemo. Right. So there seems to that may seem a based on the research that's available that, that cancer cells are more vulnerable to the actual chemo and then the, the healthy cells stay safe.

So these are patients, they fast for about 24 hours. They undergo chemo. They finish and they feel amazing afterwards. They're not fatigue. They're not, you know, deranged in any way in the herbal world. Is there something that would work like fasting? Like we think fasting works where protects the healthy cells and promotes the, you know, the signaling for the chemo to treat the cancer cells, anything that you can think of. The one thing I know, that there's at least one clinical trial of is curcumin, which again, I would really strongly urge people to use whole turmeric.

So eat not just the curcumin, but, this was a clinical trial. And folks with, you know, the Anderson independent prostate cancer kind of the worst scenario undergoing the dose, the Taxol chemotherapy. And it really did, reduce the amount of side effects, but also really increased the percentage of PSA normalization. So this study was too short to see survival outcomes. But all the interim markers looked really, really great. I think it was even maybe 60% had a PSA reduction, which the clinical trials of docetaxel by itself, it's maybe 30% sorry for itself.

If it is doubling the potency of that, that would be well worth doing. And that was six grams of curcumin a day. So that it's not unusual that you would do ten grams of turmeric. I mean, that's a that's not even that's a third of an ounce. That's not even that much at all. But you're going to have to eat that right? You get taking that many pills is going to be a lot of pills. So it's a lot on the so so I apologize in advance. I do prescribe procurement and formulated it because of the research that I've seen.

So I know, shame on you. But think of how much more you could add. Shame. Shame on you. And, you know, which is doctor, that that doctor. It's so, so sad that I'm drawing a blank. He taught me urology and botanical medicines. Another botanist, out of Bridgeport. He he used to call us, you know, ups, herbalists. So, you know, you know, you get the you get you get the bottle in the UPS box, and but you know nothing of the plant. You've never seen the plant. You never know when you so you oh, oh he he's like oh you oh you guys are upset herbalist.

So yeah. So Joanne, you know, I don't know what made me think that this is so random, but I was thinking of I noticed it was because I was thinking about, you know, the flavor of some of these things is a limiting factor. And that's why capsules were maybe necessary. But a really nice tasting herb that's great with both radiation and chemo is the holy basil. So that is also it's a very different plant because it's in the mint family. But that's a very, very delicious tea. And we do have some I think just animal type studies of it helping specifically with docetaxel.

But also radiation and not interfering only helping. So yeah. And that just is delicious. And so that even if they're having some nausea, type problems, another potential treatment to counteract that on top of all the other. But and it's an adaptogen I believe in adaptogens are like my I don't know if you have a favorite category of herbs. Adaptogens are my favorite. I could do ashwagandha, rhodiola, and and holy basil Basil to the cows come home. I just love my adaptogens. Also, I'm in New York.

Very high paced, high stress type A personality types around me. I'm probably one myself, so I can always use, something to help my body adapt to to stressors. You did not mention adaptogens other than holy basil, and I'm wondering why I. I mean ginseng, if you're not sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's right at ginseng. Yeah, yeah. I use ashwagandha quite a bit, particularly in guys with ad for so many benefits. Right. So they're struggling with a lot of the things they're struggling with the side effects of Aids.

Some of it is cognition. Some of it other than erectile because that's just not going to happen while you're on ADT. They struggling with sleep. They're struggling with many things. And so the benefits from that perspective with ashwagandha are as good. They probably probably helps with their fatigue a little bit to your thoughts on adaptogens and prostate cancer. Yeah they're great. So you know, I have you also used a fair bit of ashwagandha for sure. Greater. But my, my favorite or of the Earth, I do use more than any other herb is go to CoA, which is like with with like ashwagandha.

It's more of a calming, relaxing type versus the ginseng, which is a bit more of the stimulating. It's not like coffee even. It's not like you're jazz and wired, but it's a little more energizing. But I do mostly see the patients need to calm down. They need less anxiety. You need to sleep better as well and to deal with their stress as well as all the other benefits. So that one, we don't have so much. There's not clinical trials or anything, but it just it's really, really works so well. I just love that herb.

And it it has all these other cool benefits, including it's one of the very rare herbs that breaks down scar tissue, which is not a big deal with most prostate cancer. But if some some guys, they get their prostate sticking out, they get a bunch of infusions, right? They get urethral fibrosis. And that herb is really helpful for those things. So I get that after prostatectomy is for a few months to try to make sure, that the guys don't get, you know, excessive scarring because that is a underappreciated problem of any surgery.

Right. You want to heal? I have a whole protocol, Eric, for, a Perry surgical prostate perk protocol. That includes, things like go to a go to cola. So, yeah, that's, that's a good one. All right. Doctor Eric Darnell, phenomenal naturopathy urologist.

Adaptogens, Recovery, and Closing Remarks 45:00

Even more phenomenal herbal medicine doc. And probably even more phenomenal person. All right. Thank you so let's just take it when you can, man. That's it. I tried I try, hey, I thank you so much. If you have any final words, go ahead. And thank you so much for being in this on this podcast. And along with that, tell us where we can find you. So, yeah, I would just say herbs are amazing. I do encourage people to support themselves and be knowledgeable, but also, you know, reach like the reason there are naturopathic doctors and trained herbalists and things is to help give you support.

You don't have to guess about herbs. You really can get professional help to know what's best for you and what's a safe dose and what's a good product because, yeah. Anyway, so I can be found at urology and d.com. So I also have a practice in California. We didn't I didn't mention that at the top. So I'm in Washington, California. And you can reach both of those clinics through that urology and.com. So yeah, I really hope this has been helpful to folks and yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah. Herbs for sure. Yeah.

So as you know, as naturopathy doctors, we only live we learn different modalities homeopathy, herbal medicine, adjusting nutrition, medicine. I really went hard. I didn't go hard in homeopathy. I'm surprised I got through those courses. You know, it was like two years of homeopathy. I was struggling badly. But with the herbs and a botanicals. Man, I just ate that up, and it was just my greatest experience. Didn't take it as far as you and others from from that perspective. And I am way more than a UPS herbalist.

I don't care what anybody says, but, but I use herbs, and I have such respect for herbs, and I use in my family all the time cold, sore throats, you know, herbs, arms, herbs. I'm a big fan. Erica Yarnell, thank you so much for being on this summit. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right, everyone, thanks so much for tuning in to yet this other this other amazing episode on the prostate cancer Summit. Stay tuned for more. There's more to come. Just keep just keep watching and rotating.

There's more. More goodies. More goodies to come. Talk to you so much love.