Uncover Tick-Borne Diseases & Mast Cell Activation

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Welcome back to reversing mast cell cell activation syndrome and histamine intolerance summit. I'm your host, Dr. Meg Mill and I'm joined with my esteemed colleague, Dr. Jaban Moore today. He's a chiropractor who operates a robust clinic out of Kansas City. And besides being a wealth of knowledge in this space, Dr. Moore has also had personal experience with Lyme disease, which I really wanted to bring to you because I feel like it adds a different element when you've also been the patient, when you've experienced some of this confusion and diagnosis and not know what to do.

So he has a valuable perspective as both an esteemed clinician and a patient. So let's dive in and get started. Thank you so much for being here with us today, Jaban Well, thanks for having me. I love being able to speak on this topic because it is such an important topic and it's so personal for me. Yes. Well, before we get into the connection with mast cell activation syndrome and Lyme disease, I wanted to take a step back and really talk a little bit about Lyme disease in general and tick borne ailments, because I know there's a lot of confusion.

A lot of people have heard about Lyme, but Lyme is not the only tick borne illness. So sometimes you can have other tick borne illnesses that you're not even expecting. And then there's even complication of really discovering that. So can we start? Can you give us a little bit of background on tick borne illness in general? Yeah. So Lyme disease is a bacteria. It's Borrelia burgdorferi. And there are so many different mutations and other strains within even Borrelia that you can run a panel through, say, viral in America, where there are 10 or 12 different Borrelli is that they're testing for.

Tick-Borne Illnesses Beyond Lyme 1:51

But that's still the Lyme family. Now, when it comes a tick borne illness, when a tick bite you, it doesn't just inject one. Bacteria can inject any number of different organisms. So you can have early archaea, but because Bartonella in a plasma, any one of these are a unique organism that come with unique symptoms. there's even one alpha gal, which is a virus that can be a tick borne illness that can stop you from eating red meat. So if you're having reactions of red meat, mammalian meat, this is an issue that is really becoming more rampant.

And it's shocking because people are normal. And then all of a sudden allergic reactions are red meat. Right. So that's a pretty easy one for you. Oh my gosh, something just happened. But when you talk about some of these other things, that would babesia Being a parasite, ehrlichia and Bartonella being bacteria. So there's a number of different types of organisms coming in. So it complicates testing because oftentimes we're only testing for, if at all, Lyme, which is the bacteria. And then if we're testing beyond that we're testing for the bacterias through IgG panels such as Bartonella and ehrlichia And we're missing we're not even looking for the fact that there are viruses, parasites and bacteria all coming into the body.

And like I said, a tick never is just doing one thing. It's never injecting just one. And Lyme doesn't come alone. So then people will do treatments or do specific treatments for Lyme itself, such as doxycycline, which may be completely ineffective for alpha gal or babesia because there are different types of organisms. And this is why so many people have such a difficult time overcoming Lyme is because it's not well understood by many medical providers. The treatments are not all encompassing and the symptoms become overwhelming because people are like, well, this doesn't specifically match what I think Borrelia would do, or Lyme it itself.

And we're then missing the boat. We're not understanding that, you know, infections tend to not come singularly. Which then leads us to that mast cell conversation, because mast cell is, in my opinion, the complete overwhelm of a system where it's now overreacting. But yeah, well, we'll dive into that as we go. Yes. And you brought up a good point there with all the connections. And one of the things I want to mention, just because you brought up the Vibrant America panel and the different how it actually shows you the different tick borne illnesses.

Now, if you go to your general practitioner office, they're going to give you a different test. And I think it's really insight like, I mean, funny because I took my son, he was having some joint pain and we were getting him evaluated for that. He was a football player. So it was it was injury related. But he was getting worried about like just thinking he had Lyme and he was talking with the doctor and they did the standard line tests. And they even said to him in the office, well, it's probably even, even if you have Lyme, it could come back negative.

It's not a really good test. And when you have your provider telling you like, oh, basically we're going to run the tests, but we can't count on it, that's the hard people don't know what to do. Yeah. You know, I was reading some information put out by the CDC back in something like 2015, and they stated that they cut about 25,000 people with Lyme the positive test, but they estimated anywhere from 300,000 to 1 million people that have been infected that year. I'm going wait a minute. What is the math on that?

Like it's it's such a small percentage. It's not even 10% positivity of what their potential estimation was. So that just tells you the test is pretty poor. It's very, very poor. So I don't like to run. Their lives are the Western blot individually just through the CDC standard testing that you're going to get at a, a quest or a live. This is not my favorite test because it just doesn't give us information that seems to be valuable, vibrant America right now, at least in the last thing I read, which was, I think last summer, stated that their specificity of their testing was the highest out of any other Lyme test.

And not only can you run just Borrelia, you can actually run panels like tick borne 2.0, which cover dozens of different types of infections that are associated with Lyme, their IgG, iGM, and there's a few other different PCR testing that you can run. So different types of testing,

Testing Challenges and Better Diagnostics 6:30

they're going to get much more accurate results. I still even with vibrant America being one of the best, we're talking about an organism that's job is to evade the immune system and survive. So if it's been in your body for a long period of time, you may not be creating that appropriate immune response anymore. And if you're not creating the appropriate immune response and testing is negative. So then we have to go off of symptom surveys. We have to go off of how does your body react to treatment.

What else have you done. So labs are amazing and I love them. And you can you can even look at other things like C4. A can go up which is a blood marker with both Lyme and with mold. Right. So you can look at other markers. You can see C-reactive protein elevating which is inflammation in the body. Now this can rise with parasites mold Lyme viruses. Right. So you can once you start understand banding labs and then understanding what causes what you can go, okay, well I'm going to you this big chart and like Lyme can cause this this this and this and mold can cause this and that but not this.

And you can start ruling things in and out. But it does come down to symptoms so much. And really just getting started. Yes, that is a good point. And so let's dive into the connection between the tick borne illness and the mast cell activation. So tick borne illness is one of those things where as we said, it's not just one thing. And I've mentioned that it triggers an immune response. Right. So any infection or irritation, even stress in your life can cause an immune response. So if you're stressed out from work, your immune system may flare up and may put you in that fight or flight state where your immune system has a big build.

For a moment. So the more stress you're under. And I know you asked about Lyme, but I'm and I'm branching out to just the overall picture. But the more stress you're under, whether it's from the tick bite and the let's say for infections you got from the tick, plus the fact that you've been working a little bit too much and maybe you had a negative situation happen in your life, and then you so you have the the infection part, you have the, the mental health emotional part. And then let's let's just be real here.

The world we live in is a toxic soup. You know, whether it comes from the stuff they're spraying on all our food and the gardens. And if you live by a golf course, oh my goodness. Whether it's the VOCs coming out of your house, we're living in a toxic soup that is also stress in your system. Now, if you're very healthy and you're living a fairly clean life, you can handle it. But if all of that hits you at the same time, then your nervous system eventually is like, this is too much. I'm overwhelmed.

If you've ever met somebody who has like a panic attack or a meltdown right? That's what's occurring just at the nervous system level. That creates mast cell, at least in my experience, because what I have seen be able to reverse mast cell or decrease symptoms of mast cell is taking the stress off. And that doesn't always mean Lyme, but lyme's a big component of it. So to make this make sense, if your body is completely overwhelmed and I like using weightlifting analogies because I love going to the gym, if your ability to lift weights and I'm just going to use round numbers is 100 pounds, that's the most you can put on your back without your body just given, and you collapse and you've got 120 pounds on your body, and that hundred and 20 pounds is comprised of 20 pounds of Borrelia and 20 pounds of Bartonella, and 20 pounds of a parasite like Strongyloides, a 60 pounds and then 40 pounds a life.

Just life stuff. Stress from work and kids and family and then another. What do I got? 20 pounds left, another 20 pounds of,

How Infections Drive Mast Cell Overload 10:20

mold that's in your home. You can't stand up. It's too much for you. So what happens is when you come into my clinic and I go, okay, you know, the first thing we're going to do is we're going to get the whole family to do primal trust, which is a physical therapy for the brain. It's a nervous system. Retraining. Now that takes off 30 of the pounds that was on your shoulders, I remember at 120. And you can only lift 100. That takes off 30 pounds. You can start to stand up. So now you're you're coming off the floor from that squat position.

You're standing up because we did nervous system work. And this is allowing for your body to start operating a little bit. It's not well because if you're at your maximum capacity on your back but you're standing you're still not moving. Well. So then once we take that amount of weight off of you, then we can go into, okay, well, we got this big belly and Bartonella and Strongyloides and what we can do now is because your body's able to handle some work, I can go in with some antimicrobials. We start doing some work because what Lyme is doing to your body is it's releasing endotoxins.

And these endotoxins, they're toxic to your body. They're they're causing inflammation. They're causing immune regulation. Issues are causing flares. The, Bartonella is damaging blood vessels, which is leading to the body needing to heal itself. So you can have heel pain. You can have, lots of headaches. You can be a little more irritable or emotional. The stranger, Lloyd, is, is is a parasite that gets into your muscle tissue, that causes body pain. It causes a lot of menstrual cycle pain. You can get into your lung and cause breathing issues and cause, shortness of breath or air hunger.

So as you have these symptoms, your body's trying to handle these things. And when your body is too stressed out, sometimes it's hard to handle this. So you react all the time. So that's why I mentioned doing nervous system work first because that lowers that reaction. So we can actually get started. And so many people in mass are like I react to food, I react to air, react to chemicals, I react to every supplement, even a homeopathic shoot. I got people that react to sunlight or one second of red light.

So I mentioned because you asked, how does Lyme affect you? Well, all those reactions I just mentioned, all those symptoms I just mentioned is what it's doing to you, stressing your system out, just creating that weight where you can't get up. Yeah. And you have so many good nuggets of information in there. So I first of all want to say I love the nervous system more because I do that with all of my clients too. I think that's so important and really an essential piece of healing. And I like the way you describe the analogy of, okay, it's just piling those weights right on.

But the other thing I also thought that was interesting, that's worth also kind of like veering off a little bit is talking about the stress and the way people perceive stress, because I agree and I think people just think like, oh, if I don't have a lot of stress where I don't feel like, oh, I'm stressed out, or I have a to do list that they don't have stress, but stress comes in the biological form. It comes in the, the, you know, past trauma form. It comes in all of these different ways that are piling on, that are really creating this dynamic for people that they may not even be thinking about, like maybe the parasites causing stress or the underlying tick borne illness or the mold or all of those, those are stressors on your body physically.

Absolutely. They all are. Anything that requires energy from you technically could be considered a stress, good or bad. So in my analogy, we did the nervous system work, right? You were at 120, now you're down to 90 out of 100. If you have 10% of the energy to be able to use, you can choose to use that. I was having this conversation with the client yesterday because I still see clients every single day, and what I was saying to her because she's like, can I go back to the gym? I worked out, I feel fine.

I'm like, okay, that's that's really good. I go, okay, so what happened when you went to the gym? And she said, well, I feel really good and made me happy. I really want to get my body back. I'm like, okay. I go, so are there anything is any symptoms happening, any changes in your house? It well my, my I started urinating a little bit more often. I'm like, okay. And I feel a little bit more dehydrated. After I went to the gym I go, how many times you go the gym? Just once. Okay. I go, well, so here's what's happening.

The gym is awesome. I love it for your mental health. it's really important for your physical health. It's really important. It's a very big part of my life. But the only thing you changed was going to the gym, and now you're urinating more often. What this means is that it stressed your adrenals, so you actually taxed your body past the 100% again. So your body is now going back into that fight or flight state from the gym, which is a good thing, right? It's a good stress, but it's going back into the fight or flight, and it's because of a release of hormones so that now you're urinating more, now you're losing electrolytes.

The depletion of electrolytes is being done because it's trying to create more energy to keep up with your capacity and ask for energy. So for me, for that client, I said, hey, you know, maybe that wasn't the right thing to do yet. going back and hitting the bodybuilding excuse like, I lifted weights, I was heavy, I was intense. I think maybe right now it's better to go for a walk or do a little bit of light Pilates or yoga that can just really help you to still move, but not necessarily stress the system because, again, it's anything that uses energy thinking too much, working too much of being too emotional, which maybe you can't control.

But that's where that brain physical therapy comes in. And that's where that primal trust comes into hands. So the asks that I ask my clients to do are very unique. and the way that I go about it, because supplements require energy, health therapies require energy, right. So doing a coffee enema requires your body to do the process, like to, to go through it, but also it requires energy to flush and then to replenish. Taking supplements requires you to think about how many supplements are going to take you.

Get them all out, put them in my mouth and get them down to my gut. Process them. My body has to figure out, do I need this? Do I need to use this? Do I need to flush this? all of these things are what your body's doing from good things. So I'm very careful with how I ask your body to use its energy. Because stress comes in the format of good and bad. So yes, Lyme and trauma and overworked are stresses that are not necessarily good. Kids and husband and family. And gym can be great things that require energy that maybe we have to modify how we're doing those things while we're going through a healing journey.

because your body only has 100.

Reducing Stress and Building Tolerance 17:20

In this example. And if it's at 90 and I want you to heal and me asking you to heal requires five, you got five left to use with the those other things. There's a good points. And yet people do have problems sometimes when you're asking them not to work out, they don't understand because I've had to do that too. But you're exactly right. When you're adrenals are tapped, you really shouldn't maybe be putting that stress on. So those are all great examples. So let's jump in to sort of treatment here.

So if you are looking at a patient that has that has mast cell activation syndrome, you see Lyme, you might see some mold. You might see a parasite after you're doing the nervous system work. What would you go to next. So the way that works in my clinic, I'm just take you right through like my notes. So it's like a prefab note that pops up that asks me questions to make sure that I don't miss anything for you. So the first thing is, do you live in a place that is safe? So I need to decrease the outside stress coming in.

So that's air, food, water, hygiene products. That's dental, that's implants. That's people. Right. So do you live in a place that is safe? Is there a way we can modify your current existence or environment that will allow for less stress that your body? So that's step one. Step two is where do we go? Do you feel safe. So that's a nervous system where we just talked about and I love primal trust. And then the next one that we go into is the protocol right. So the supplements now if you're Marcel you're going, well I've tried everything.

I've got the supplement graveyard. I've tried all these dogs. They're not helping me out. And I always tell them I'm like, look, I want to be the last dog that you see for this problem, not the next one. So the way we're going about this is those first two steps. Safe place and feel safe. You got to do those first and you got to lean into them with so many people. It's hard, right? Like I don't want to test my home for mold. I don't want to know. And I go, you know, knowledge is power. Look, you don't your it's not your home. It's not going to be perfect.

So just accept that right now, it's not going to be perfect. There's gonna be a little sun. But is it something that we can tolerate with your system? And then the nervous system work. I mean, it takes time if you got three kids or something, if you've got a hard job, if you're just flat wiped out from your sickness, it's hard to commit that time. But if we do those things, that's going to start opening the door to where you can take more supplements. And then we can start with things like homeopathy.

We can start with just straight minerals. I mean, just simply doing salt and water can sometimes start building back some of the minerals that help your body to have the strength to start taking steps. So when I get into the protocol, I'm going to be going into a lot of labs to see where the bodies are. We install dangerous spots. Do we see signs of that, which is a mitochondrial response, where it's basically like, should we keep going or should we have the self-destruct? And in between those the body reacts to everything is a bad thing because it's trying to make that decision.

And that's where most mast cell people lie. So the first step, protocol wise, is what do you need cell to feel like you're getting stronger but not being attacked and not ready and not going to detox and mobilize anything out because you're not ready for that. So that's where the minerals come in. That's where sometimes it'll be vitamin comes and that's where some bromelain, stinging nettle, quercetin can come in, which are all herbals that are good for histamines. So we start working on that histamine response.

We're going to do a canned low histamine diet. We're going to put a red light on the back of the neck, which can bring photonic energy into that primal part of the brain that's in this overreactive state that's shoot first, ask questions later state. Right. So that's what mast cell seems to feel like we're bringing in, potentially a vagus nerve stimulator. We're using oils over the vagus nerve. We're doing vagus nerve relaxing and body relaxing sounds around you. So binaural beats all of this to just relax the body for those really severe mass of people.

If you're not in that level of severity, then we can go more into supporting that next phase, which is the drainage and the detox phase. So adding some herbs in that can help more lightly. I'm not going to go straight to gluten, iron or iodine that are just going to flush the cells. I'm going to go more into the milk vessels, the NRCs, the the adrenal supports, like the, the racing mushrooms, the rhodiola is the adaptogenic herbs. So we can just start really tuning the organs and doing some castor oil pack, which actually helps put you into a parasympathetic and also drain the body.

We're going to make sure you're going to the bathroom using things like aloe and sand, magnesium, so that your body is able to clear itself. So we're really working on the basics of does your body have the ability to open and close cells, which is sodium potassium methylation, which is allowing to make energy, which B vitamins or a piece of, the pathways that you're going to use when those, those two processes start to drain are open. Before we get into that antimicrobial side of things, which, you know, we can jump into here in a minute, a little bit more particularly, but one thing I did want to mention is, you know, there are also medications that can help with histamines and inflammation for these clients.

There are also adjunctive therapies such as eMDR, neuro feedback that can be helpful in situations where people are really struggling because everybody's so deep into a fight or flight state. Yeah. Thank you so much for that is such valuable information. So you were saying that, you know, you were mentioning here some of the things that are you're starting with when they're in the cell, danger response. And I know that that is a common theme. You know, I have people like you're saying that even the sunlight and the supplements and you just keep butting your head up on these things because that you can't get them to respond.

So when you're if you have someone specifically because we were kind of talking about tick borne illnesses that come in

Treatment Sequencing and Sensitivity Management 23:50

and you can't get them to respond because of sensitivities, do you know, are you adjusting protocols or kind of how do you deal with that. From always adjusting protocols? I tell people all the time like, hey, I just went through all these labs. The first appointment where we have, you know, the history, everything, every bit of information we can have. We spent all this time and I'm like, all right, I'm going to give you a protocol with a few steps. We're going to talk in here in a few weeks. And if you have a reaction in between, shoot me a message because if you are truly Marcel, things go awry quickly.

And that's just the way it is. And I wish I could say that I have some magic cure or some magic process that doesn't do that. But when one drop of one homoeopathic can set you off, well, boy, we're going to be making some pivots. So one thing I always do is everything that you do, every herb, every homeopathic, every therapy, every change that you can make in your life, you do one thing at a time and you give your body time to respond. So a few days. So if I give you 3 or 4 supplements we want to try out, you're going to start one at a time.

Building up now building up means if I ask for ten drops of a homeopathy, you're start with one and then go to two. And then go to three and then go to four. If you are very, very sensitive now, if you're not that sensitive, we can move faster. And I always and coaching people like, okay, well maybe we're moving a little too fast for you. Let's slow down. Or maybe you're moving a little too slow. Let's speed up. There's also something I call the pulse method that I've developed. And it actually was for my first ever Marcel client that I didn't know what Marcel was, because it was before Marcel became cool.

you know, 7 or 8 years ago. And I figured it out, and I named it after him at first. But, you know, I don't want to publish a person's name, so we we just joke about it. Now, when I see him, although he's. Well, now, it's just, you know, we call it has nothing. the pulse method is do a full dose one day and then stop. Give it five days, then do a full dose again. And the reason why this had worked for my Marcel clients was the Marcel response seemed to be like it built on top of itself. Now some people react pretty pretty quickly, but in this situation it was like, get a big enough dose in there that it's going to do something and give the body five days to rest.

And we saw a little blip of a reaction versus like a huge reaction that would happen if I had to do one drop one day, two drops the next day, three drops the next day. It felt like there was this archive of information building that we just couldn't get over. We spent a year trying to, and I one day just looked at and I said, man, I got an idea. You want to try it? And we did it. So that's another way that we do it. Also, as I was mentioning earlier, there's so many brain things that we need to do.

And that's why in my protocol, I get in that safe place first so that we feel safe, well, that you are safe and then work on the feeling safe part. So when I say feeling safe part, that means that you are able to sit in your home and be like, I know that I'm going to be okay. I know that another person in this house is going to that would they would be okay, right? So being able to state those things to yourself starts to give confidence to your body because your body is listening and then going and doing trauma releases.

Because I tell you what, even if you don't identify with the word trauma, your immune system does. By the time you get to Marcel, I call it autoimmune PTSD. So you got to go do some work there, and it may be subconscious work. So maybe that neurofeedback, it may be, you know, any neuro emotional technique it could be. Ms.. Are there's so many good ones out there. But releasing some of that can be a game changer. I've seen people after a week of neurofeedback go from one fourth of a cap of a length supplement, causing a reaction to four caps.

The day after. So I've seen a 60% reduction in food allergies and reactivity, and one week doing neurofeedback, which the way I do it, it's built for the most sensitive of people. So we're using a therapy that is one lead. It's not pushing, it's just putting you in a relaxed state, that state right before you fall asleep or you're kind of just, you know, just so relaxed that that state allows for the body to just rest and calm. And if we can get your body to know what parasympathetic is a couple of times a day, then it starts to go, okay, I can be there.

I'm not in this danger I used to be in. And by doing that, it decreases the likelihood we're having to pivot so often. And that's been a big secret sauce for me, although it's not so secret. I yell at the top of the tree tops, but, it's one of those secret sauces that have allowed me to be able to get people then into the the actual antimicrobial detox care plans, because, yes, we need to do the nervous system work. But when you have Lyme, the lyme's causing nervous system damage. So then I got to go back and take care of the Lyme to get you out of this cycle.

But it's just building, you know, another way I talk about ego. You can't build a pyramid from the top down. You got to build it from the bottom up. So build that base of safe place, add the layer of feel safe, then add the layer of the nutrients. Then add the layer of the drainage, then the detox, then the antimicrobials, and then finally we'll just put the cap on which is the rebuild and stabilize maintenance. Well yeah, I agree with you. I have seen so many people that we have had the same thing where they can't tolerate, they can't tolerate, they can't tolerate anything.

And then we go back and we work on that neurofeedback. We work on the mindset, we work on everything. And it really it's truly amazing. You know, the mind body connection when we're looking at these things and being able to be back in the parasympathetic nervous system where that you can actually start to heal. And I don't know, do you see this too? I feel like once we get through that hump and we can actually start tolerating, it's like like you're butting up against it, you're running up against the reacting to everything, and then you break through and then it starts to roll.

It's like, oh, wait, now this is clicking in place. Now this is clicking in place. This is clicking not every it's not a uphill I know. It's it's a journey that kind of goes like this. I always tell people I'm working with, it's not a straight line, it's a healing journey.

Herbs, Medications, and Detox Support 30:40

But we start to see things kind of start to click together. When we can break through some of those things. Absolutely. With every bit of strength that you gain, with every chip that you knock off, as long as you don't, then take a giant leap that pushes you back, right? So sometimes people want to take I got this far, I want to take this huge leap and it's too much, and then it pushes us backwards. as long as you just keep chipping away and maybe accelerating a little bit with each chip, a snowball effect always tends to happen.

And then we're off to the races, which is, you know, such a blessing and so exciting because you take somebody who at one point we were, you know, let's do one, one more drop this week to all right. We're going to switch protocols. No pulse into it. Let's just roll. Yes I know and and really actually just even for listeners to hear I have working with someone currently right now who is we were doing the just the tiny bit like, you know, she's opening a capsule and just putting granules in. And then she tolerated that and then she's putting a little bit more on a little bit more.

And she's so excited to be able to get up to a whole capsule. And I think just celebrating that win. And she's starting to feel like even that one supplements making a little bit of a difference. So I think we can get ourselves frustrated and like, oh, this isn't working. But if you just be patient, it's the long game. It's not a quick win. We live in the world of quick wins, but it's the long game and if you play the long game, then you actually see true healing. Exactly. And that's what I was saying about just don't go too fast.

Just don't go too fast. like I tell people, I was like, I'm a bank. You go as fast as I possibly can based off of what your body can handle, which is not within my control. So don't start thinking about timelines. Don't worry about what's coming next. Just enjoy your day to day, which will relax that nervous system and let us roll. because trust me, I'm impatient. I want you fast. I want you better, faster than sometimes what they want. But just because I'm like, man, all right, I've got this other person moving fast.

Can I get you going fast, too? I get all excited about it. Results and results focused with you there. So if you're someone who can get to that anti-microbial phase for limes and other tick borne illness, do you are you often able to treat that holistically and use herbs, or do you have to go to medications and then kind of along that lines of with some of the antibiotics and harsher medications, do you see that affecting mast cells? you know, I just talked to a woman yesterday that's a, client, and she had an acute UTI situation that, being Marcelle.

And we just started working together, and she can't tolerate saltwater. So we're doing nervous system work, and we're doing home clean up, and we're doing some of these other things. and we've seen some positive results symptomatically, but we just can't do herbs right now. Right. So I'm like, you know, I'm a little handcuffed with the things that I can do for you to. And so she ended up going to her primary because of the conversation we had. And she did do a medication for a urinary tract infection, which was the best option in the moment because she could not tolerate anything else. I mean, saltwater wasn't an option.

well, she fired she heard from the medication, which we expected. You know, that was an expectation that we had. And fortunately, the medication knocked it out. She tested negative for the UTI. She is in a flare. We are doing some nervous system things to try and just, like, bring her back down and settle her, which is working. We're seeing some settling, some medications. Absolutely. Whether it's detoxing. statin a fluke in, ivermectin albendazole part of quantal. I'm going to try and hit up something from each of the categories there.

they definitely can cause the death of those organisms that they're attacking. And when that's done, your body then has to clean it out, and that toxicity can be a little bit too much for somebody in myself at any time. But so can herbs, right? So I'm not dogging on the medications as, as if they're un effective or if they are doing something in that way different than herbs. Herbs can do the same thing. Meds sometimes can do it faster with killing things. And it can also create a generate a higher inflammation state.

And then when it's specific more to antibiotics, which is my least favorite of the categories and wipes out your microbiome, leading to a sometimes depression for some people, lack of, energy because antibiotics are killing bacteria, or you're mitochondria of DNA of bacteria in them so it can cause damage to mitochondria. So there are drawbacks to those medications. I don't love when people have to use. And there's a time and place where meds are necessary.

Healing Progress, Protocol Order, and Where to Find Dr. Moore 35:40

I'm not going to ever say that the meds aren't necessary. Ever. There's definitely time and place for it. in most cases, probably 99.9% of the time. I don't have the need for that. We do have a nurse practitioner in my clinic that when that need arises, we can go there. but 99% of time we are using herbs, we're titrating them up, we're cycling them. So we cycle herbs every 3 to 6 weeks because the body gets the majority of the work done in about 7 to 14 days. After that, majority of the work that that herb is going to do has been done, especially when it comes to the antimicrobials, in my experience.

And then we move on and we rotate and we change, and we never get stuck with one thing for too long. So if you're the person, like, I still see parasites gotta keep going, parasites, gotta keep going. Parasite is like, well, after 3 or 3 months or so, you're probably needing to go to somewhere else to elevate the body in a different way. So I'll, I'll jump over to bacteria and mold and metals, and then we'll do one more parasite contract that it ended. It finally ended. I did that for three years on my own before I started with you.

How did you get it to end? I'm like, well, we elevated your body strong enough that it was able to do its own thing, defend itself in an appropriate way by removing the stressors that stopped it from doing its job. Yeah. That's amazing. I know that's really insightful. And a lot of people come in, like you're saying, with that kind of self-diagnosis, self treatment and may not be doing it in the right way. So order matters. I think exactly what you're saying, order of operations and the protocols in the way we do it and the way our body responds are so important when we're treating many of these things.

Yeah, I completely agree. I tell people all the time that come in that have done some of the things that I'm doing to use some of the supplements I'm doing, go the order by which you go through this process, from safe place to feeling safe to doing your protocol, the order of your protocol, the roadmap, even within the herbs, supplements and organisms that you're trying to address matters for you, and it's unique to you. So that's where the assessments, the labs, everything comes to play to make things uniquely special for your experience.

Yes. Well, thank you so much, Jaban You've given us such wonderful information and covered this topic in a way that's very clear and easy to use. So I appreciate all the knowledge you've brought today. Can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Yeah, so I've got a brick and mortar clinic in Kansas City, but we also see people virtually all around the world to help coach them through this process and teach them what it is that we've seen in the last ten years of practice and with thousands of clients.

so you can find us at drjabanmoore.com or @drjabanmoore on pretty much any social. So we're on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, but primarily our biggest, place that we put free information every day is Instagram. Great. Well, jump over and follow Dr, Jaban Moore over on Instagram. And thank you again for being here and have a great day, everyone.