Understand The Healing Factors In Radical Remission Research

Introduction and Karla's Cancer Journey 0:00

Karla Mans Giroux. I'm so excited to have you on this segment of cancer breakthroughs. You're co-director of the Radical Remission Project and a holistic cancer health coach, educator and speaker. Your radical remission survivor living with stable metastatic breast cancer. Also original diagnosed with breast cancer in 2003 and underwent a bilateral mastectomy, chemo radiation 11 years later. In late 2014, you received a metastatic breast cancer diagnosis. This diagnosis did not align with your goal of living to be 100 plus.

Yeah, that's for sure. So. So you decided to do all that you could to manage this challenge? Karla embarked on a holistic healing journey to help herself regain optimum health and longevity with her integrative approach to healing. She's blessed to report no evidence of disease since 2016. That's amazing. Her passions led her to share what she has learned so that everyone with a diagnosis can have a better chance of overcoming the odds. Karla has a Bachelor of Arts degree from DePaul University in Chicago with a focus and project and change management received her health coaching certificate from the Wisdom of the Hole Coaching Academy, as well as a radical remission project and is naturally board certified by the National Board of Health and Wellness Coaches.

As a co-director of Radical Remission Project and as a certified Radical Remission Workshop instructor and health coach, it is Karla's mission to share the powerful benefit of the radical remission healing factors with the world. Karla, such a pleasure to have you on this this show today and on this segment. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Dr. Karlfeldt. I'm intrigued. Tell me tell me about your story. I mean, tell me what what you did. You know, because I mean, obviously, people that are diagnosed with cancer, it's such a scary word and you feel so powerless.

And you really are looking then for tools to be able to to overcome this fear and then to be at a place where you are at, you know, for seven years, no evidence of disease. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I am very blessed. And so my story starts back in 2003 and I was 37 years old. I had a two and a half year old and a five year old, and I got a breast cancer diagnosis. It was stage three. So I went through chemotherapy and radiation after having the mastectomy and then five years of Tamoxifen. And every year that I got away from that diagnosis, I felt better and better.

And at five years I was feeling really good. And certainly by ten years I felt like I am out of the woods this is good. It's it's done. But unfortunately, it metastasized to bones. 11 years after that original diagnosis. Now, I didn't know any better in 2003, and I just went back to my busy career and my two year old and my five year old. Right. I didn't know that I could or should or, you know, might have made changes that could have helped me. I don't really dwell on that so much. I don't like to look backward.

I like to look forward. So I really just decided I was going to do everything I could to change what I could, what was in within my power to change so that I could overcome this diagnosis and make that 100th birthday that I have always had a goal to make healthy and sane, by the way. So on that diagnosis of metastatic breast cancer, it had metastasized to bone and it was hips, pelvis, ribs, spine, clavicle. It was it was kind of everywhere. There might have been some tiny spots in the lungs, but I couldn't really tell for sure.

The biopsy of the bone was inconclusive.

Discovering Radical Remission and the Healing Factors 4:12

Kind of hard to do, but they put me on the same treatment. Or they put me on treatment for the same type of breast cancer I originally had, which was hormone receptor positive or two negative. I responded immediately. So I also immediately made changes to my diet, to my lifestyle. I had a very busy, stressful, global job and I immediately took a medical leave of absence to really focus on me and my health. And those changes, along with the hormone blocking drug that I started taking, really did arrest cancer.

I was diagnosed in late November and by January I was noticing the symptoms were receding and certainly by my three month scan, cancer was stable. And again, more receding because the symptoms were completely gone. Initially, the cancer was growing in such a way in the bone that it was literally pinching a nerve and that numbness and falling down wasn't happening anymore. So that was really good news and I hadn't found the book Radical Remission yet, but it became one of the biggest helps for me because I did hire a cancer coach in the beginning.

I did change my diet and look at stress and look at other things that I had control over. But when I found the radical remission book in about 2016, I went through the the chapter, the chapters, the table of contents and said, check, check, check. I've done these things. This is great. But there were a couple of, of these healing lifestyle changes, these factors that Dr. Turner and researched that I hadn't really delved into yet and didn't really know that that they could be beneficial. And so I continued looking into it and continued to work on changing my lifestyle as much as I could, because I really did believe my body could heal.

But they needed to change the environment in which the cancer grew. So. And tell me a little bit about Dr. Turner. I mean, how how did she come about these principles? What what were they based upon? Yes. So Dr. Turner was doing her oncology social work degree at the University of California, Berkeley, and she was she ran across one story that really grabbed her because she was really, you know, feeling badly about all of the people that she was working with who were dying from their diagnosis. And when she ran across the story of Shin Teriyami who was a Japanese man who had kidney cancer and had gone on to be labeled a spontaneous remission, she got really curious.

She wanted to know what did he do and why aren't we studying them? And as she started to dig in, she found that there were a lot more people who'd had spontaneous remissions. So she dug in and she started to do the research. This was her. Her Ph.D. research, and it was funded by the American Cancer Society. And she traveled the country for not even the country, but the world for a year, collecting stories, interviewing people. And of the 1500 plus people that she interviewed, talked to, surveyed, etc., for these ten, what we call healing factors were common among every single one of them.

So she found about 75 different healing factors. But these ten were common among every single one of these individuals who were labeled as spontaneous remission. She decided to call them radical remissions because she knew there wasn't anything spontaneous about it. These people did some hard work. Yeah, exactly. And spontaneous is just when you activate what I think the true doctor, which is the doctor that exists within us, you know, that innate intelligence that that we all have. So I'm curious, though, I mean, these factors, were they all, you know, different types of food?

Were they, you know, how you're thinking? I mean, what what were some of these factors? What kind of areas did they cover? Yeah, it really kind of covers three, three different main categories. So the physical factors, as a lot of people immediately go to let me change my diet, let me look at exercise and let me look at herbs and supplements. Then there's the category of emotional and that would be getting social support, you know, increasing your social support. And really that means embracing the love and support that you get asking for and receiving help.

Also, having a strong reason for living is really important and releasing suppressed emotions and increasing positive emotions. And then there's the spiritual factors. Spirituality following your intuition. And I feel like I'm forgetting one oh, empowerment. So being empowered to be your own advocate, right? So many of us, those certainly have an older age look at doctors as the authority figure and just follow doctor's orders and don't understand that you have some power within and really should be empowered and be your own advocate.

Do your research and make your decisions for yourself. We like to call it being the CEO of your health. And people that that you coach, that you work with that that search out the radical remission project.

Diet, Movement, and Supplements 10:21

What are some commonalities that you see that these these are things that people tend to have challenges with that that they may not think of. Right. So I find that everybody has thought of diet and everybody wants to focus on diet. They want to focus on the physical, tangible things. Right. And that's only diets, only one of ten of these healing factors. So a lot of the folks that I work with now really don't haven't even thought about the releasing suppressed emotions. And that's really about releasing things that we're hanging on to from the past, hanging on to, you know, and wishing that things were the way they used to be.

Like, you know, I used to be a ballerina and now I can't do that anymore. But I'm really angry about it or upset about it, and I haven't given up on it. And I want to be that ballerina. It's a little bit of of that. It's it's, you know, memories aren't a bad thing, but nostalgia can be a bit of a problem if you keep wishing you were somewhere else in the past. You need to be here in this moment, present to your life. And so people do have a little bit of a hard time wrapping their head around that one.

And so we tend to dig in on that. And and that's kind of that that in going back to that empowerment, because you really don't have a focus of power unless you act from a place of then now, you know, if you act from a place of in the past, you can change that other than obviously your attitude about it. And so by bringing in your energy to the now, you know, it kind of falls along with being the CEO of your health where you don't just going to give away your body to a doctor here, please fix it.

But you've you've kind of work on it yourself knowing that you are the one and, you know you are the locus of power. Exactly. And that's so true in Dr. Turner's original book, Radical Remission, which came out in 2014 when the factor was called Taking Control of Your Health, when she came out with her second book, Radical Hope, in 2020, she changed the title to Empowerment being empowered, right? Because she felt like we can't have control over everything. So a better title would be to be empowered.

I love that. And so yeah, letting go of then the past, but then and then you also talked about bringing in obviously when we get to remove space or get rid of toxic emotions or negative emotions, but then we we need to fill that space with something else. Otherwise we'll just attract, you know, maybe more negative emotions after we've done the detox. Well, and for those of us with a diagnosis, it's hard to get away from the negative thoughts, right? It's it's the fear is going to be there. The anger, the frustration, the anxiety over all aspects of treatment and overcoming a diagnosis.

So we have to recognize that we are humans and all of those feelings are going to be there. But it's really important to increase our positive emotions and make sure that every day, even if it's just for as little as 5 minutes a day, we feel love, happiness, joy, you know, whatever gratitude, anything positive is going to release a flood of those happy hormones, those beneficial hormones. And when we look at all ten of these healing factors, they really are all supporting our immune system. They're all about building more of those good hormones, releasing more good hormones into our bloodstream, putting us into that relaxation state right in repair and rest mode instead of fight or flight mode.

And the cancer diagnosis puts us in a fight or flight mode and it's hard to get back out of it. So making sure that we can get into relaxed mode is really important. And all of the survivors really conveyed to Dr. Turner that, you know, it was like a muscle that they needed to work out, so they treated it like a daily workout. Let me make sure I get my my increasing positive emotions time in each day. And that that's a key. Just like you were talking about. Most people are aware of of diet and it's still challenging for for people diagnosed with cancer to dial in the appropriate diet.

But we know that let's say broccoli is cancer fighting food and they eat broccoli. And so they're getting those nutrients and that becomes a daily habit. But like you're saying, the emotional component is such a key and that is a nutrient that you continually have to have as a habit to to to ingest daily. In addition to. Then later on we'll go into the spiritual as well. Yeah. So and that's, you know, and so yeah, we get to develop these patterns as lifestyles in order to achieve the goal we're wanting to cheat.

Absolutely. Well-said. Yeah. And just a real quick on the diet. There isn't any one diet that Dr. Turner found that everybody did. What the commonalities were, however, was greatly reducing or eliminating meat, wheat, sweets and dairy and increasing the vegetables and fruits so that you're eating more real food, more plants, and less processed foods and other possible carcinogenic foods. Yeah, that's great. And and so yes, let's, let's go through kind of the three physical ones. We have them the diet.

Yeah. As, as long as we focus on things that bring nutrients to the body, support the body's healing mechanism and then remove the ones that obviously subtract off of it. You know, in regards to then you have the section of, of exercise as well. So were there certain exercises that that were better than others or what did you find there? What she found there? And it's interesting because in the first book, Radical Remission, this wasn't a factor. It was later she went back and looked because she looked at the Independent research, like other studies that say how important exercise is to,

Emotional Healing and Social Support 17:00

you know, reducing your risk or overcoming treatment or, you know, reducing your risk of recurrence. So she why she wondered, why didn't this come up before? In the first book, many of the people that she talked to had been sent home on hospice after conventional treatment failed them. Others were doing a completely alternative approach, but so many of those people couldn't exercise in the traditional sense of the word. They weren't running marathons anymore or going to the gym and lifting weights.

But what she found when she went back through her research and re-interviewed some of these these original survivors, was that they all moved their body as much as they could when they could, and they continued to increase their movement and exercise. And it wasn't, again, one type of exercise. It was just moving your body, getting the exercise and, you know, really focusing on doing a little bit more each day. Yeah, I love that. I, I used to tell my, my patients, my cancer patients that, you know, even if it's, you know, you're able to walk to the bathroom once you try to do the trip twice and really just kind of push push the boundaries just a little bit, you know, so that you're moving and try to kind of gain more and more more movement and stamina that way.

Yeah, it's really about helping people to change their perspective on it because it's moving your body, not necessarily the traditional exercise. So walking is a perfectly fine, you know, exercise to utilize. And so having the perception that your daily activities are helping you is, is much better than thinking you've got to get back to running your marathons or lifting weights in the gym. I love that. And then you've you have the question in regards to supplements. And, you know, obviously that something I do quite a bit along with many other things as well.

But so supplements, were there any kind of commonalities with with that? Yes. So again, very individual. So, you know, the supplements are bio individual. Everybody really should be getting tested and assessed by a practitioner that can help them decide what they need based on their situation and the commonalities. Among the radical emission survivors were within three different categories detoxifying types of supplements, immune boosting type types of supplements, and also the nutrient absorption right to improve the absorption of the nutrients that you are getting and to make the most of it.

So those were the three general categories that all of the survivors were taking supplements within. And, you know, not all of them started out doing all ten of these all at once. You know, it's it's not the silver bullet. Having that diet is really foundational first, right? If you're eating well, then you want to put the supplements into play, not use supplements as an alternative to a good, healthy plant based diet. And then going into the emotions, I mean, we would talk a little bit about bringing in or letting go like nostalgia or, you know, living in the past and letting go of toxic emotions and then bringing in good emotions, you know, like things that brings you joy, gratitude, those those type of things.

So what what are what were some of the other emotional factors that that you you mentioned? Yeah. So having strong reasons for living is a really big one and that's one we like to start the workshops with first because if you know what your strong reason for living is, if you know what your why is, why do I want to be here? Why do I want to, you know, work to overcome this? Then it makes doing the other lifestyle changes a little bit easier because you can keep going back to this is why I'm doing it, whether it's, you know, family, you want to see your children's milestones or your grandchildren's milestones or you want to finish the book you started writing or the painting you started creating, whatever it is.

And it can be small things, strong reasons for living doesn't mean you have to have fame, fortune and win a Nobel Prize, right? So once people can can really get a handle on what their strong reason is, then it makes it easier to do the work of the rest of these lifestyle changes. And how do people go about that? Because some people there's so there's so tied into, well, I'm a dad, I'm a husband. You know, I'm a, you know, executive. And this is what I do, you know, so they really sometimes don't know the why.

And also so how how would you explore that? Yeah. So when we do the radical remission workshops, we offer workshops that take people through all ten of these healing factors, not only teaching them a little bit about it and the research and the scientific evidence that supports it, but also giving them activities to help take them through it and figure out how they're going to implement it into their own life. And then there's a game plan to to really help them figure out, like, okay, what are my steps I need to do?

But when it comes to the activity around strong reasons for living, we're really helping people to get clear what's important to you. If you have all the time and money in the world, what would you do with it? Where would you spend your time? What would you focus on? And then the other half of the activity is to take away all that time and money and ask them again, What's important to you? Where do you want to spend your time, etc. It really helps people to get clear. Like if I, you know, I get to have all these grand ideas because I've given been given all this money and time, and then you have them go back and go, you only have a year.

What would you do with that time that you have? And it really helps them get down to, Oh, well, this is what's really important to me and so many people, family is really important, but not everybody has family and not everybody, you know, you also need to have a personal reason, right? Like Karla wants to live to be 100 healthy and sane, just to say I did it right and and so that's aside from my two sons and husband and anybody else in my family. So helping people to uncover what's important to them, whether it's the volunteer work that they do or the fact that they're a writer or a painter or they like to scrapbook or they just want to travel and be able to list.

You know, I've hit 20 different countries in my lifetime, whatever it might be. It's it's really helping people figure that out. And there are more things that we can do. And, you know, there's more things that people can do. Then outside the workshop, once we start getting there, their thoughts go in and really help them understand that. Then they can do some of that work either with a coach or finding other resources that help you find meaning and purpose in your life. I love that. I love that.

Yeah. I mean, you get to have that driving factor and if you don't have that, then yeah, yeah. You just blow in whatever direction the wind blows. So so that is going to be so important to have that anchor What is there another emotional factor? That empowerment is kind of the emotional factor. We talk about that, right? So yes, in control, being empowered, releasing increasing and social support. So social support is really it's not about how many people you have in your life to support you. Some of us only need one person, others of us need 30 people or have them and want them, you know, extrovert, introvert could be a little bit different.

It's really more about asking for, learning to ask for and receive love and support because we're so good at giving love and support. But because of this idea in Western culture that we are we need to be independent, that we can do it ourselves, that we don't need somebody else's help. It's really hard for people to ask for the support they need when they're going through a healing journey. And I hear it all the time. It's so hard for me to ask for help, so I turn it around on people. I'm like, Well, do you enjoy helping your loved ones and friends?

Of course they do. They they get such a good feeling out of helping somebody. So why would you deny your friends and family the chance to help? That helps a little bit. That gets them going. And then I ask them to make a list. What are the things that you feel like really need to be done but that you don't have time to do, you know, make a list of all your things

Spirituality, Intuition, and Practical Exercises 26:00

that you need to do right now. You need to put your focus on you. And so the small errands and small chores and, you know, the little things or, you know, maybe even big things like research, maybe you've got somebody in your life that can help you with that research. And wouldn't it be better to have them weed through it all and show you the positive stuff so that you don't spin down swirling into a black hole because you just read some research that was not beneficial to your diagnosis. So there's lots of ways that we can let people help us.

You know, people want to bring food, give them a recipe that's plant based. Ask them to make that for you because it's going to help you and it's going to teach them how to eat healthier for themselves. Yeah, it's it's so important to feel connected and and by doing these type of things and all of a sudden you recognized how many people that are out there that really love and care for you and to be able to be open up and be filled with that energy, it just just that in itself can can melt away a lot of diseases.

Absolutely. And you may know this, the research tells us aside from Dr. Turner's research, that having social support is more beneficial than not smoking, not drinking and not eating a bad diet. Not that we tell anybody to go go ahead and do those things and get lots of friends. But loneliness is a bigger problem than smoking, drinking and eating badly. So yeah. So it's so important to take that step out and reach out for people that want to love on you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then then we. Yeah, and this.

This is not the not the least but the last. Yeah. That we're going to talk about. And that is the spirit, the spiritual component. You. So what, why, why is that important? I mean, because there's a lot of people that feel, well, cancer is a physical disease. So why why would I need to bring in spiritual aspect to that? Yeah, for holistic healing, you need mind, body and spirit involved. And so this is another area where people are a little bit like, well, yeah, why do I need this? But spirituality asks you to really deep in your connection to whatever you believe in, whatever that higher power is, whether you want to call it God or the universe or the divine or goddess, you call it whatever you want to call it.

What matters is having that connection, having that deep connection where you believe that there's something bigger than you and that you're connected to it and to others, dare I say, oneness, right? In thinking about how we are all connected that is bigger than any one of us individually. And by having that spiritual connection, you're able to tap into something beyond yourself. You're not alone, right? And you can then use that to build your faith, to build your belief in your healing and your ability to to get well and to get through this kind of diagnosis.

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that that's so important. So. So are these attended recover the ten. So along with spirituality within that spiritual realm would be intuition. So following your intuition. So it's really learning to listen to that still small voice within and you know, some people might call that voice within God or universal, but it's, it's about really learning to hone your intuition, to pay attention to what that little voice is telling you. And for some of us, it's not a voice. Some of us it might be a vision, some of us it might be just a thought that pops into our head.

A sign like, you know, on a license plate that you just saw in front of you that intuitive voice shows up for people in different ways. But it's really important to tap into that because it can then help you make decisions about your treatment. Which doctors? The right doctor for you, which protocol is the right protocol for you? Which diet's the right diet for you? So there's so many things that you can use your intuition to help you make decisions on. And it does take some practice. And it's that power of of resonance, you know, because we, you know, every every tissue, every disease, every pathogen, every they they have a certain frequency.

And so to be able then if you tune in to yourself and really connect with with that with who you are, and then you can then match that frequency that you need that you might be missing a in your external environment and then really feel that this, this diet really feels good because you are connected with what's going on with then or this individual, this naturopathic doctor, this medical doctor, this healer, this whoever it may be, they carry that frequency that will then resonate with what's going on within me.

Yes, well said. Are there ways that individuals can can enhance this gift? Because obviously there are a lot of people when they kind of feel something, think something, dream something, they and they think, well, you know, that my question that that doesn't seem real. That seems odd. And I'm afraid to kind of go in a direction that just seems loony. Yeah, they'll brush it off. Right. And although we've probably all heard some stories about people that had a dream, a repeated dream, and they finally paid attention to it and oh, my God, then they found out they had a diagnosis or whatever the dream was trying to tell them.

There are ways. There are simple little things you can start to do, and we always ask people to just start practicing. So when your phone beeps or buzzes, don't look at it and see if you can guess who's calling or texting you. If you're standing on a bank of elevators and you know there's three elevators, see if you can guess which one is going to show up. These are just little things you can do when you do get that sort of intuitive feeling like that dream or that feeling or that thought. Take note of it, write it down and and track whether or not you know what how you acted on it, whether it came true or didn't come true.

By paying attention, we start to honor our intuition and it shows up for us more. But if we're not paying attention, then obviously, just like our body, we don't pay attention to our body. So we don't feel things happening in our body. We don't know if that diet made us feel better or not because we're completely oblivious, because we're so busy on the hamster wheel of life. So it's the same with intuition. Stop and notice it, journal about it, write it down. Just track these little intuitive hits that you get to see how they turned out so that you know that you can trust it.

So you know, the next time you get that little tingly feeling like that's my intuition I need to pay attention. Might be telling me something good. Use it when you're driving. If you're going, you know, you you go to the same place multiple times, but you've got different routes for getting there. You know, ask yourself, which way should I go today? And I used to do this a lot. And invariably, if I didn't pay attention and go that way, then I'd be stuck behind a train or a traffic jam or an accident or something like I should have gone that way.

My intuition was trying to tell me so those little things can help us to hone it. Another great exercise to do is to put a question on a piece of paper and put it under your pillow at night before you go to bed. What's the question you want answered? And it's almost as if your your intuition or your subconscious just can't help but answer it. Now you've got to listen. So the next morning, when you wake up, before you get out of bed, grab a piece of paper and a pen and write down everything that you can remember

Workshop Stories and Where to Learn More 34:30

about your dreams or what came up for you, or what's coming up right now. That's another way to really hone your intuition by asking the questions and then stopping to listen, writing down the answers and following the trail. Yeah, that's. And that's that's great. I mean, that's great. We, I mean, we all know that if we have somebody we, we talk to and they don't listen to us. Yeah, we talk less. Yeah, we, we kind of say, well, it's useless to try to communicate to them because they're not going to listen anyway and, and our bodies are the same way.

You know, if we don't listen to our body, then the body says, Well, I mean, why should I send them signals or can I give them guidance? You know, they're just not going to listen anyway. Right? Well, the body will sometimes start screaming at you and that's when you get the diagnosis. That's cancer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the intuition, you know. Right. You stop, you stop listening to it. It's going to stop talking to you. So, yeah, tune back in. And tell me some stories of people that have gone through the Radical Remission Project where it's really impacted them.

And obviously this is a as a cancer summit. And I know that radical remission is not just focused on cancers, have focused on so many other things. But would you mind just sharing a couple stories? Sure. I'd love to. Yeah. And it just to say initially the book Radical Remission was focused all on folks with cancer. Radical Hope opened it up to say these ten healing factors are helping people with other diagnoses. So that yes, when it when it comes to when it comes to folks with cancer who I've I've taken through the workshops, there have been some really great things that have happened for people.

So one woman that really struggled with the asking for help, she came up with the idea that, you know what, I really do need some some healthy meals and I can't do it myself. I'm not feeling well enough. I'm in treatment. And so she's the one that came up with the idea that I'm going to give people recipes that I want to try. And this really helped her to be able to ask for and then that love and support in the form of food. You know, others have really worked on some of these factors, but it was like releasing suppressed emotions.

I just really couldn't get it. And what they learned, I can think of one client in particular was that, you know, what is the suppressed emotion that I don't know, I'm suppressing and you may not have a suppressed emotion you don't know about, but we've all got trauma in our lives, right? Even, you know, you feel like you had the perfectly lovely childhood. And the fact is, if you had a childhood, you've had trauma, the little things that happened to us, and especially when we're young and don't know how to deal with it, cope with it.

Right. We put weird coping mechanisms into place when we're five year olds or seven year olds. But this person realized that they didn't need to uncover some big trauma that they had suppressed. They just needed to recognize that there were traumas that the the surgery that they had when they were a child was a trauma to their body that they needed to recognize, except and and just kind of check in with like, have I let that go right. And the breakup with a boyfriend at some point, you know, the ugly breakup that she'd had, she realized, you know, she was still kind of hanging on to some of that, the whole well, you know what?

I should have coulda, right? If only I had done this, that, that, whatever. Maybe there wouldn't have been this big, ugly breakup. So it's, it's things like that and it's sometimes just it seems like a really little thing, but it can be a huge breakthrough for the people who go through the workshop to realize and to have this light bulb moment that, oh, my gosh. And it may not necessarily be the only thing that that helps them heal from their cancer, but it can be the next step into finding their way to healing.

Yeah, and that's the thing is that, you know, you may not be able to isolate this one specific thing. Was it that moved me towards healing or no evidence of disease? Because cancer is such a complex disorder. It's so, so multifactorial. So you need to address it from all angles. And, and, and then the combination of things just make things move forward and a good direction. Yep, exactly. Yeah. Well, Karla, thank you so much. Thank You for the work that you're doing and for the people that that that it's touching.

Thank you so much for for being and where can people go to learn more about the radical remission project. Yeah, they can absolutely go to radicalremission.com. They can learn more about the projects we offer the workshops. There's an online course if you're not well enough to attend even a virtual workshop, but lots of teachers there. You can find coaches that are coaching one on one. There's a docu series. You can watch the ten episode docu series so radicalremission.com. And if people want to connect directly with me they can me as one of the coaches there or they can go to my website which is healthnavs.com, it's health navigators.

So I would be happy to help anybody who's looking for some guidance on their healing journey. Great. Thank you so much, Karla. Thank you. Dr. Karlfeldt.