Estrogen Detox: Estrogen’s Exit Plan

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Hey, ladies, we're back to mastering the Menopause Transition Summit. Still, your host, doctor Sharon Stills here with the hormone queen. You ladies are in for a treat. We're probably going to get a little sciency, so grab a pen or a paper. You might want to take some notes. This will definitely be one you're going to want to listen to again and again. Because my guest today, I'm sure many of you already know who she is is Doctor Carrie Jones. She's an internationally recognized speaker, consultant and educator on the topic of women's health and hormones.

With over 20 years in the industry, she is a natural public physician just like me. She graduated from National University of National Natural Medicine in Portland, Oregon, where she also did a two year residency in women's health, hormones and endocrinology. She is was the medical director for Dutch. Now she's the medical director. Medical education. Rupa health. She's the host of the Root Cause Medicine podcast. She's a clinical expert for Lifestyle Matriarch Resource Center. She is lots of things.

If you're not checking out her Instagram, you are missing out because not only is she knowledgeable, that is also very funny and has great Instagram Reels, so I highly recommend checking her out. So welcome Carrie, it's so good to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. Yes. So we are talking all things menopause and today we're going to do a deep dive. We've been talking about estrogen. We've talked about how estrogen gets a bad rap. And actually when utilized properly, it can be very healing and is very necessary through the menopause transition.

We've talked about how I even use it for breast cancer patients, and that we just have to really understand the different kinds of estrogens. But today we are going to talk about detoxification and metabolism of estrogen, which is really, really important to know. So I guess before I even ask you about that, I'd love for you to just tell. Like, how did you get so into hormones? Do you have a personal story? I, I have a funny story, actually. So I grew up in Kentucky. I wasn't born there, but I was raised there for a lot of the formative years.

And my health sex ed type classes were taught by the football coach. So you can imagine how that went. And when I got into college, I had known for a long time I wanted to be a doctor, but I got more and more into women's health. I got more and more into community outreach, community education. I was volunteering at two different hospitals. One was in their community outreach. I just loved it. So when I found Natural Path Medicine, I continued on the lines of women's health and hormones. I had a fantastic mentor who I was able then to do a two year residency with her and just got a lot of hormone experience, through my connections with her.

And I found just over and over and over that as I was learning this stuff, I had so many friends or family, you know, neighbors. And eventually when I was got my license, like, my patients were like, I didn't know this, you know, I didn't know this. I would have women that are like, I've had multiple children, didn't know this. I'd have women, menopausal women who were like, didn't know this. I don't know how I survived because I didn't know any of this. Like, oh, that's a problem. So that's why my story was I just kept learning, learning, learning, learning.

And I found so many friends, patients, colleagues, etc. who were like, I don't really understand this whole hormone thing and I would really like for you to educate me on it. In fact, the other day I had a good friend of mine is a double board certified internist, gastroenterologist, and she's like, can you just run me by the menstrual cycle real quick? She's like, I don't. It's not what I deal with, right? Like I'm GI and all the menstrual cycle like, but she, you know, she's had children and she's female and she's so she's so funny.

Understanding Estrogen Detox Pathways 4:10

And I was like, yeah, I'll run you by the menstrual cycle or I'll tell you what happens hormonally. That's so. And I find that's just the case with so many women. They just don't know. Yeah. And especially in medicine, why not? Traffic medicine shines because we we embrace all of you. And that is so true that a gastroenterologist. Why would they know with the menstrual cycle you have and probably thought about it in 20 years or. Yeah. No, no, not at all. And she was branching. Branching. And she's doing all sorts of hormone stuff now.

And she but she realized really quickly, like, oh, this is not the intestines. Like, this is a whole different world I need to focus on. Yeah. Wait until they transition to menopause. Then it's a whole different world. Exactly, exactly. So great. I love your story. Extra detox and metabolism. What do these ladies need to know? Yes. So I got really into estrogen metabolism. When I worked at the hormone company. The hormone test company, the Dutch test. Because it's one of the factors we tested. And as I dug into the studies around estrogen and, cancer or even cancers related, but estrogen related symptoms, breast tenderness, heavy periods, polyps, fibroids, worsening endometriosis, etc., etc.

one of the things that kept coming up over the time, over and over was like, well, how do you get rid of your estrogen? Like you make it, so how do you get rid of it? And so that and so the act of detoxifying or breaking down hormones is known as metabolism. And what it breaks down to are called metabolites. And some of the metabolites are helpful and good for the body. And some of the metabolites are not so much not so helpful at all. And when they go, your body goes through these different phases of detoxification.

We have 2 or 3 depending on which pathway your estrogen goes down. As it's going down this pathway, what can happen is women will say, especially maybe younger, they'll be like, you know, I was just always felt now that I know, I always felt I had high estrogen. I had all the symptoms. You just said I had bad PMS, I'd have you periods, I had fibroids, etc. and and nobody could really answer it for me. Nobody. My ObGyn didn't know my primary care, didn't know they were. I was handed the birth control pill to just shut it off.

I was like, fair enough because that's all they're taught for the most part. But really what's helpful to understand is why bet you weren't getting rid of it in a healthy manner. I bet we needed to improve the pathways that you get rid of estrogen, which is really nice to know for menopausal women who were listening to this, going either on estrogen or thinking about going on estrogen, then now they have this extra amount of education to go, all right, great, you're on it. Or you're going to take it.

Now let's get it to clean out in a healthier manner. And so that's why I love talking about it so much. So important. Yeah. We think sometimes we think about you are what you eat, but then we remember. No, you're really what you absorb and I think with hormones like you're taking them. But now what? What's your gut doing with them? Which is why I freak out when someone comes in and they have never had a urine test to look at their metabolites, and their hormones are just being monitored by blood.

Not a good, accurate way to take care of things. So let's talk. What is that? What are those pathways? What do the women need to know? What do they need to know. So I'll walk you through the analogy. I was just going to say we'll start with the bathtub. So it's I thought of this analogy years ago and I just always used it. So picture a closet bathtub and it has to be clawfoot because I'm extra. I want a closet in my analogy, so you can't ever turn off the water. Your bathtub is always going in your body.

Your detoxification in your body is 24 over seven 365. It doesn't turn off for your birthday. It doesn't turn off for Sunday. It doesn't turn off for Christmas or Hanukkah. None of that. It happens every day. So when people say to me, well, I want to do a three day cleanse or I want to do a seven day cleanse, I'm like, well, and then what? What happens on the fourth day or the eighth day? Like it never shuts off. So in my bathtub analogy, water is coming into your bathtub. You can never shut it off.

You can adjust it, but you can't shut it off. That's what we call phase one estrogen detoxification. Your phase one estrogen detoxification is three different types of water, which are three different pathways. It can go down. And thankfully they're numbered to keep it easy. So it's the two pathway. It's the four pathway and it's the 16 pathway. So the two pathways is the better pathway. It's like less bad. It's not perfect but it's less bad. The the four pathway is bad. It's straight up bad. If you're going down that pathway you have what's called risk for DNA damage.

And we surely do not want to damage our DNA in any way possible. The 16 pathway is what's called proliferative. It makes things grow great for bones, prevents against osteoporosis, especially as we head into osteo or into menopause. Bad for breast cancer. We don't want 16 to be the dominant pathway. God forbid if you your cancer cells are going wild. So that's the water in phase one. Then you have to go through the drain because the water comes in your bathtub, go through the drain. So now the question is, is your drain open?

Is your drain closed? Is your drain clogged? Is your drain open but not open wide enough? So is that two, four and 16 or coming in? All that water is coming in. You don't want your drain to be closed or clogged because just like in your bathroom, which will the water will overflow and ruin your bathroom, the same thing happens in your body. You get this overflow of hormone that could be toxic and we don't want. Then once you go through the drain, you go to the sewer line, just like in your bath, in your in your house or your apartment or your condo.

So now you connected the sewer line and you get excreted like away it goes to the city or goes it goes somewhere, but it's not in your house anymore. And it's the same in your body. So your goes to the kidneys and you pee it out or goes to your intestines and you poop it out. But as you can imagine, you can have issues there too. So for people who were not drinking enough fluids, if they have kidney disease, if they have constipation, they have a lot of intestinal gas and bloating and maybe they've history of parasites or worms or things that are causing their, their microbiome, their, the gut bugs that live down there will all affect the way your estrogen gets out, just like in your sewer line lining your house or your apartment.

If it's clogged or cracked, then obviously you're going to still have bathroom issues because the out isn't out. So the analogy is the same in your body. So the bathtub, I explain it water to the drain to the sewer line. But the way you want to fix it, just like in your house or apartment, is fix your sewer line first, then open your drain and then adjust your water. So in your body we want to make sure you're hydrated. We want to make sure your kidneys are healthy. We want to make sure you're pooping regularly.

We want to make sure your microbiome is healthy. And then the drain part, the drain part in the body is, one of three things. It's either called and they're big words. And they have to do with it's they're like they're like Cinderella's fairy godmother. They transition things. So what is called methylation one is called salvation with an s and one is called glucose. Now who name these? I don't know, I always joke, if I was in charge I'd name them like OPI. Nail polish would be like really fun, memorable cute names, right?

So when you're in your body, you do these things. And the reason is the drain in your body is a neutralizer. It makes things in your body neutral. So if you have bad chemicals or bad hormones wreaking havoc, it's like, nope. And it magically transforms it into something neutral that can't cause problems and what we call water soluble. So you can get rid of it, you can pee it out, or you can poop it out. And then of course, we have, like I said, the water. So in our body, I'm constantly working with women to say, how are your kidneys?

How are your intestines? Tell me about your bowel movements. You know, everyone, let's talk about that. And then I'm doing testing to see can you neutralize, can you neutralize this estrogen? And in what pathway are your estrogens going down. The other the two pathway, the four pathway or the 16 pathway. Now this sounds like a lot like this. Sounds can this can be super overwhelming for somebody to hear it the first time. And what I want to just you just to take home is to know that if you are fearful of estrogen or maybe you're on estrogen or worried about estrogen, or maybe you had all the estrogen symptoms I said when you were younger.

I know that we practice as practitioners who know this stuff. I know that we can use supplements and we can use lifestyle,

Supporting the Drain: Methylation and Nutrients 12:40

or we can use foods to adjust you to going out the right pathway, which is so nice, you know, like, how nice would this happen to know so much younger? Like, hey, did you know one of the key bonus nutrients of your drain section of your body is magnesium? Like, hey, what are the key nutrients in in the in the sewer line section? And you know, your intestines. Think of like your prebiotics and your probiotics and your post biotics. One of the key factors in the water section are the brassica family, specifically broccoli, kale, cauliflower, and even better, a broccoli sprouts.

Broccoli sprouts contain an enzyme, that mix with another nutrient that they form something that's big and long. It's called sulforaphane. Sulforaphane is like this magical drain cleaner. It, like, completely just opens up the drain like, no tomorrow so you can get us out. And how nice. If we got taught a long time ago like, hey, put some sprouts, Ethan sprouts every other day, you know, like, hey, make sure you're getting a magnesium enough magnesium in your life. Like, hey, are you pooping every day? You're not.

Well, that's going to affect your estrogen. So let's make sure that the microbiome is okay. It's basic stuff. None of it's medication. You know? None of it's requires surgery. Nothing's insanity. It's just I just wish this stuff would get taught, and it would just help us, especially heading into perimenopause and menopause. I just feel so much better about like, okay, I've got this under control. I can control my own bathtub, I can work with my own estrogen and get it out easily. I know, and it's so many women and that's why I'm doing this summit, because so many women suffer for no reason, because these solutions are here.

We understand them. Unfortunately, they're not in your Ob-Gyn office right now or they're not in your primary care office. And so when it comes to hormones, you really need to go to a natural Catholic physician who really understands this. And I love what you said. It's it's not their fault. It's just like, differently. You can only see what you're trying to see. So if you're works and you've got blinders on, that's all you see. You only see medications, you only see suppression. And it really is the whole system.

And I love the bathtub analogy. And now I want to rename the place afterwards and start looking at my nail polish. But wouldn't that be so much easier to understand if somebody, you know, people are taking notes like how do you spell gluconate? And I'm like, I know even I have to spell check it sometimes. That's crazy word. Yeah. For women listening because we know that menopause we know estrogen declines. So if someone is listening and they're like, well, do I need to really worry about this? Because I don't even have any estrogen?

What would you say to them? Yes. So here's the thing again, going back to my first point, detoxification never stops ever. So even if you went from an abundance of estrogen in your younger years down to, you know, low menopausal levels, now that you're transitioning, that even that menopausal level is still going through detoxification. So even though the water amount coming into your bathtub is less, if you are going down the naughty little four pathway that causes DNA damage, all it takes is one.

And then the snow ball effect happens. So I don't want to increase the risk of anybody's potential for, let's say like, a like a breast cancer or endometrial cancer, which can be estrogen related as they get older. Now, the thing about cancers we know is it's it's complicated. We cannot ever single handedly blame breast cancer on estrogen. Right. It's not like this one hormone did it. It's it's the guilty dog, you know, like that's who did it. It's just not possible. But we can say one of the contributing factors might be that if you are going down this pathway and you were routinely like picking on DNA, picking on DNA, picking on DNA, causing damage, then you can you're an increased risk for DNA mutation.

We don't want mutation because one of the mutations could be cancerous in nature. So even as women get older, I'm like we said, your exposure to chemicals, your exposure to life because of age is just caught is increasing even though your estrogen is decreasing. So I'm still want to reduce your risk every way that I can. I still want to get your estrogen out while I'm working on all the other stuff in their life. So yes, even if they're choosing not to do any estrogen and just to have the estrogen as is, eat broccoli sprouts.

Make sure your magnesium is good. Make sure you poop every day like these. Things can still be quite helpful for you. So what with the face, with the metabolite, the four metabolite which does the DNA damage? Are there other things other than the blood? That's some of your favorite things that we may yes, be aware of that you could share. So one of my favorites, so well actually I'll tell you what's the most common. And then I'll tell you why you have to be careful and menopausal. What I'd use instead.

So the most common thing you're going to read about on in blogs or social media is what's called dim, dim, or indole three carbonyl I3C. So again, who names these? I don't know. So dim and endo. So indole three carbonyl turns into dim. And so you will sometimes see them both on a supplement. Sometimes you'll just see one or the other. So what they do is they pivot the pathway. So they if you are sliding down the four pathway water slide, it will pivot. You just slide down the two pathway which is way better.

So that's great. But what it does in the process is it lowers estrogen out of circulation. It like grabs estrogen as it goes. If you are younger and you have an abundance of estrogen and you want less of it, then that's then. That's when you should use it. So when you when you were in your 20s or 30s or maybe even your early 40s and you were feeling so estrogenic, that's the perfect time for dim. What's not perfect is if you're already menopausal and low in estrogen. I don't want your estrogen any lower because I don't want your bones to be affected. Your brain, your heart.

I don't want you to have hot flashes and hate me. So just be mindful. If somebody said, oh, you're on estrogen, take them. Maybe, but it will lower your estrogen out of circulation and push it down to the to the better pathway, the two pathway. So it's like one good thing which is down the two pathway but also lowers it out of circulation. So what do I like instead? I like resveratrol, so I like resveratrol which is better instead. And the other option you can try is quercetin. So quercetin starts with a Q and resveratrol I like better because it has less like domino effects in other and other parts of the body against estrogen.

So quercetin is great for the water. Adjusting your water away from the four pathway, but it will clog your drain. So you're like, dang it. And then we have to do more drain support. So I don't recommend quercetin all that much unless you're working with a practitioner who knows what they're doing and is like, I got you, I'm going to give you more drain support over here to counteract the effect of quercetin at the drain, but I still want it for your water slide effect. So resveratrol I like because it doesn't affect the drain.

It doesn't affect the the sewer line out the intestines or the kidneys. It's generally considered pretty safe. And so that's why I tend to like and it's pretty easy to come by transverse fair trial. So that's a really nice one. And then again, I'm going to go back to the the broccoli sprout. The active ingredient in broccoli sprouts is called sulforaphane. So for for if you're listening to this and you're like oh, but I'm one of those menopausal women with low estrogen, I don't know that I want to change my estrogen and circulation.

I don't want hot flashes and night sweats and affect my brain and my heart. So you then you're probably the better candidate for eating a couple pinches of broccoli sprouts every every other day or so, or or buying broccoli sprout, supplement. Because what that does is that broccoli sprout has the ingredients. It makes sulforaphane with an S, and it opens up the drain. So no matter what water is coming in to water, for water, 16 water, the body doesn't care. It just opens the drain and pushes it out.

So it just takes care of it for you. And it also helps if you're headed down the pathway, towards DNA damage. It will redirect it away from DNA damage so that those broccoli sprouts are pretty, pretty slick now. And I do get asked like, well, why don't you eat them every day? Or should I eat them every day? Unfortunately, because there's not a lot of money. There's no money in broccoli sprouts. It's not well studied. And so not all broccoli sprouts are the same. Meaning maybe you bought heirloom seeds, which have, what we call a high yield.

They're, like, really great. But maybe you just bought these regular old organic, you know, broccoli seeds, and you're growing your own sprouts at home. But we don't know what the yield of that sulforaphane is, so I don't know if it's potent or not, but research has shown us that once you activate the drain, it like the time it takes to close again or slow down again, is many like I think it's up to like 18 to 24 plus out. I mean, the researchers are like the drain doesn't close immediately. So if you eat broccoli sprouts on a Monday and then you don't eat them again, a Wednesday, like it's probably takes that much time for you to go up and then back down again.

And so I was like, great, because not everybody likes broccoli sprouts. Sometimes they don't taste all that great right there.

Alcohol, Food, and Lifestyle Factors 22:00

You know, those little microgreens. So that's not so resveratrol is an option. And then sulforaphane which is in broccoli sprouts is a really good option. That's so I'm so glad you brought up the dim because I throughout the years have seen so many women be so confused about it. And I've had so many patients come in who think I'm taking estrogen because I'm taking them. Oh yeah. And yeah, I'm like, spin that around, you know, actually, or just taking it because they think it helps. But that's why it's so important.

We always say tests don't. Yes, yes. Because you could be taking it in. You might not even have an issue with your two or your 16 ratio here. And then you're leading into osteoporosis because now you're suppressing your 16 which is bone protective. So it's really right to not guess and work with someone who understands what they're doing. So you can be led through these things. But I love the resveratrol. That's very important. And so what about for the dream anythings. Yes. So the drain. So the drain really likes like I said earlier, magnesium is a big one for the drain.

So magnesium is a big cofactor for the active methylation. So usually the first question I get methylation I've heard that is that my FA carry I have my FA I've the dreaded MT fa. Is that what you're talking about. Not really. So I'm actually talking about methylation is in the act. It's a cycle a circle really. And methylation is the act of taking a methyl group and shoving it onto an estrogen to neutralize it. That's what you do now, HFR, which affects your folate, is a part of that cycle. But it's a small part.

Other parts are bigger. B-12 is very important. Magnesium is the hot cofactor. Zinc is a backup cofactor. Some people have seen the supplement. Sammy, Sammy, Sammy, Sammy is a big cofactor. And I need to be careful. Sammy, you don't generally take if you're on, like, an antidepressant. And for some people, it can actually make them feel terrible. So I don't start with Sammy. I start with the nutrients B12, magnesium, zinc, B2 is a good nutrient. B3 is a good nutrient. Choline. So choline is a part of this.

So are you eating your eggs? Do you not eat eggs? Okay. Do we need to add in choline? Can we get some of this stuff through diet. And then and if some people say, well, I don't really want a supplement, I would rather, you know, use diet to try to get this in. Well, are you absorbing. So like, how is your stomach acid, right. Do you chew your food to start with, does your stomach acid break it apart? Are you able to absorb it because that pushes this down into the sewer line area. And if your sewer line is not doing good, then we know which is the whole thing is going to back up and not work.

So sometimes you do need a supplement. In the beginning while you're really trying to boost the cycle, so to speak, and get you methylated. So so those are some key factors that I like for, the drain to help the drain. But being magnesium is great because a lot of people like Epsom salt baths or they're using magnesium oil on their body or they're like, oh, I take a I take a calm powder, you know, at night for sleep. Does that count? I'm like, it does count. Yes. That all counts. So magnesium, you're good. Keep doing it.

Magnesium will help you poop too, you know. Yes. So the citrate and the OC. Yep. There's those can help you move it out. And that'll help with your estrogen as well. So speaking of food or drinks let's have the wine conversation. Oh I know I was going to bring this up with resveratrol too because I will I will have patients, who will say oh I red red wine has resveratrol. That's great. I'm like, oh yes, but no, you still have to deal with the alcohol. So alcohol, goes through the liver as well for detoxification.

And alcohol is a bully. It will push everything to the back so it can get to the front and your body can break it down. So what I tell women is that if you are a regular consumer of alcohol, if you love your glass of wine or two a night, and you are struggling with your hormones, be aware the alcohol is probably playing a significant role in that because alcohol, well is just systemically a problem. But it does affect detoxification, especially of things like alcohol or, excuse me, estrogen, but also everything else, every other chemical, every other supplements, every other hormone you've come in contact with during the day.

Alcohol will push its way to the front. I have found and pushed the other things back. So when you push the other things back, in my analogy, they're like, all right, fine, I will go back out in circulation and I will go back out and cause problems. And so this can affect you, especially if like plastics and phthalates and parabens and, you know, smoke, smoke inhalation or fertilizers and pesticides and glyphosate that your body is trying to push forward to get rid of. But then you also drink. And now it's like, I can't get to deliver.

I guess I'll go back out and cause havoc in her body. So it's not exactly what happens. But in my analogy, that's the easiest way to understand it. And then basically you're going to be more toxic if you drink alcohol because yes, you're going to get toxic detoxed out. So I know this could be a touchy situation or and especially because there's options. So I, you know, women are like, well, Carrie, I only drink tequila or only drink vodka on the rocks with a squeeze of lime. And I don't have any blood sugar issues. And blood sugars are big ones.

Carrie, I have tequila on the rocks, and it doesn't affect it. Doesn't push me out of keto or, I wear a continuous glucose monitor. And if I do vodka with just a splash of lime, it doesn't affect my blood sugar. I'm like, great, that's actually not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about detox. Like, I'm glad it doesn't affect your blood sugar, but it can totally affect your liver. So and now, of course, and I love it that there's the, you know, biodynamic, the all natural low sugar biodynamic wine.

Great. Fantastic. You know, the way they advertise, like lower alcohol and no added sugar and they don't spray and all this stuff on. And so people are like, oh, I love it. I don't feel hung over. I'm like, it's still alcohol. You still have to process it. And while it has less, maybe herbicides and pesticides and sugar and stuff, you have to process, it's still alcohol at the end of the day. And we know big time unfortunately, is we women transition into perimenopause and menopause are enzymes that process alcohol.

Slow down. It's a part of menopause. We they slow down. So when we could 510 years ago handle alcohol, no problem. Now we hit our 40s or 50 and we're like, what the heck. I had one glass at a wedding and I feel terrible. I'm like, yep. Talk to your liver about that one and talk to the liver. Talk to the hair. Yep. You know. Yeah I mean and so you have to really look at if you're having a drink once a month or something. So yes I do tell patients do the gin. Do the tequila. It's less sugar. But if you are relying on wine every night, you really have to take a look at why.

Like what's going on that you are needing to alter your situation that. So that's definitely a larger conversation. But we just wanted to bring it up here that if you are struggling or drinking too much wine, good idea to talk to someone and get to the root cause of what's out of balance, but that you really have the knowledge that the wine is interfering and is wreaking havoc with your hormones. So if you're if you're not that attached to it, maybe this is a good time to just say, I'm going to put it down and I'm going to meditate to relax.

At the end of the day, rather than drinking a glass of wine, or I'm going to pop some theanine and chill out that way, or some magnesium, or I love the Epsom salt baths. Those are those are they have such profound effects in so many different ways. They can put you sympathetic and get your magnesium help your brain. So you got a lot of good stuff going on there. Yeah. What about food? Because everyone always wants to know about your diet. So are there foods you do recommend? Don't recommend. What's your whole take on diet.

Yeah. So the problem. So here's the problem. If you are hormonally challenged let's say the research shows that by adding in a little bit more broccoli, or food like foods something high like foods with magnesium which really aren't that great, or foods with, you know, extra B vitamins. Like if you're hormonally challenged, it requires copious amounts of that food. In fact, I think I found a study that said, if you are trying to move the needle on the water so your two, four and 16 pathway, you would need to eat 600g a brassica family foods a day over many years to make a dent.

So I did the math on on broccoli, chopped up broccoli, and it was like 6 to 8 cups of broccoli a day for many years, which most people aren't doing 6 to 8 cups a day, maybe somebody is doing one cup a day, you know, the equivalent.

Gut Health, Estrobolome, and Final Takeaways 31:20

Or between broccoli and cauliflower, you know, kale. They're like, well, I probably get two cups a day of that, but it's 6 to 8 sustained for many years now. If you are the superstar who's like, oh no, no, that's all I eat. I'm 6 to 8 cups a day every day. But you're still struggling in the water part. Your two four, 16 is not great. Then adding in more is likely not going to help. You probably need the potency of the supplement at that point. Or look at your drain. Look at your sewer line. So is it going to hurt you not?

No, not at all. So if you're listening to this and you're like, I do not like broccoli, I do not like, you know, like I don't eat these very often, if ever I'm a peas and carrots type of girl, I don't know, you eat it will help you just add in some. I absolutely have people that are like, oh, I never eat broccoli. And now we eat about a cup of de and I actually do notice a difference. So I'm like, great because you went from zero to something as opposed to somebody who's already eaten a lot. So those are helpful. Broccoli sprouts I've already mentioned.

So that's the actual sprout ideally is organic because we don't want it sprayed. The broccoli sprouts can be helpful. So you know a couple tablespoons or I say a couple pinches. You're just eat them or put them on your soup, your salad, your smoothie, whatever it is. Just go ahead and get them in. That can be helpful. Now all the way down to the sewer line. Carrots are helpful. So raw, unpeeled for carrots. Not a baby carrot but a full carrot. Wash it, wash the skin, but don't peel off the skin.

To eat it unless you were peeling it to make a carrot salad. Like some people will peel the whole carrot but eat all the peel totally fine. The reason is the fiber in the peel and the fiber on the inside both help the gut, which actually helps you clear out estrogen better. There's research on this. So I tell people have full like, you know, Bugs Bunny, full carrots, stoney baby carrots every day. And that can be helpful at moving estrogen out. And I since I've been lecturing about this for years, I have had plenty of people who've said, oh my gosh, is I get is and it can be more noticeable if you have more estrogen.

So they would say, as I get close to PMS time, I up my carrot intake or I eat a carrot salad and I notice my PMS is a lot better, my periods aren't as heavy, my cramps don't suck as bad. I'm like, fantastic, you're getting that extra fiber. It's getting estrogen out. So those are some key foods that can be helpful. Now I said for the brain, things like choline. So you know eggs right. And there's there's choline in the in the yolk of eggs. So things like that B vitamins if you are B12. So maybe you're getting either if you're a meat eater eating, you know, beef to get your B vitamins.

And if you're not a meat eater, making sure you're getting your nutritional yeast to get your B vitamins and things like that can also be helpful. And making this whole system work better. Awesome. I'm going to go do my Bugs Bunny in person, but and so just finally, because we talked about the drains and the gut, if you could just speak to basic with your on a days and yes, so little story. Yes. Your analogy sounds like she's got another analogy in our intestines. We we have all sorts with the microbiome right.

Which is our, our good bugs and the bacteria and fungus and protozoa and all the things that live down there that make us work. But we have a subsection of it called the Astro alone, which is basically the estrogen microbiome. And they squish the words together, and they came up with a strobe alone. So it's the part of your microbiome that handles your estrogen. So picture your estrogen is gone through phase one. So it's gone through the water. It's gone through the drain. So now picture your estrogen like in a box with the lid on.

And it's tied up with a bow. And now it's been pushed out into your intestines so you can poop it out. Well, what happens is if you're a strobe alum, if that part of your microbiome isn't doing that great, it creates a lot of this enzyme called beta glucan, which are basically big scissors. They're giant scissors. And they go around and they cut off the bow and they open up the top. And now estrogen can fly free. Why does that matter in the body? Because when estrogen flies free, it's active again.

It will get reabsorbed back into your bloodstream and go wreak havoc. It will go cause estrogen symptoms. It will go bind to estrogen receptors and turn them on again. So your body's like, hold on, I just got rid of you. Why are you back? Go away and so you get those symptoms back again. So what I tell people is if we can help, you have daily bowel movements. Foods I didn't mention, but maybe in the very beginning I said, like, you're pre biotics. Your post biotics your probiotics. So your fermented foods are taking the supplements that are pre and probiotics.

What that does is it helps keep the scissors under wraps. There's also a supplement called calcium D glue. Great CDG calcium D glue. Great. And basically it helps keep the bone in the box so estrogen can get it out. So it doesn't fix the problem. But it temporarily helps keep the Bo on the box. And so as you're working on your gut health with somebody so that you hopefully don't need it forever and ever, you just need it for a short time. So that calcium, that, beta glucan on it is that those scissor enzymes, if it gets out of control, then they act like scissors.

And we actually have a few scissor enzymes, that don't get talked about a lot. One is called sulfites. And so when estrogen a different part of estrogen detox is called salvation and it puts an s on it. So when you get when a estrogen with an S comes in contact with these sulfate scissors, this is your snip off the S estrogen is now active and free and binds to receptors, turns them on, wreaks havoc. And so again any way we can help improve our gut health, our gut microbiome, and just keep our scissors at bay, we need we need them for other things like we never want them zero.

But, we don't definitely don't want them out of control. So that's my analogy for the intestines. It's the bow and the scissors. I'm feeling a rock paper, scissors somewhere. No. Right, right. Exactly, exactly. Perfect. So I think you've really tied it all together. And a reminder of how it can be complicated. But with the right guide, it doesn't have to be so complicated. And that more to just am I taking estrogen? It's what's happening to the estrogen. And that also includes your kidneys and your gut and your microbiome.

We are one being. Yeah. Back to your your gastroenterologist. In the beginning we see the body as one being, which is such a big problem with mainstream medicine, as I mentioned, that it's all sectioned out and not be sectioned out because your body is all your body. It's all. Yeah, yeah. Any last before we finish off any last nuggets of wisdom from you for the ladies about hormones, estrogen, anything. Yes. I was going to just add on to what you said. I again I just to reiterate, I know it sounds complicated, but the exciting part is it's very modifiable.

So I don't ever want somebody to think like, oh, these are the genes I was dealt. Like, this is just my family. There's nothing I can do. Our genes are enzymes, our scissors are our cycles, our drains, our water. Everything is modifiable to various degrees. And so when you work with somebody who understands or you're listening to this summit, then it just empowers you to be like, I got this, I got this. I understand it's modifiable. I'm not destined to doom. And it can be really, actually quite wonderful.

So that's my last, nugget. Actually, I have one more nugget, which is in the beginning I meant to say this too. If you work with somebody in ObGyn or primary care and you're talking to them about this and they don't understand it, or they blow it off or they're like, that's bunk. First of all, what we're telling you is basic physiology. It's then all the physiology books. We just we all studied it, all of us studied it. And all the medical schools, we all learn it. Just some of us focus a little more on it.

And number two, it's totally okay to add to your, your treatment team. I love my primary care doctor. She's wonderful, but she's strictly primary care. Like, she doesn't really care to know what I do. She doesn't really believe in what I do. But she's, like, super great for my physical. That's covered by insurance, right? She's great for my part, which is covered by insurance. And I had to have an ultrasound and she was like, let me order that for you. I'm like, great, thank you for that. And I just add to my team of somebody else who understands hormones or, you know, thyroid or GI health or whatever I need.

I keep her, but I just don't use her for that. So don't think your primary care, your ob gyn is one stop shop, and you may have to diversify your team. Or I'm just like, it takes a village to raise a child. It takes time to take care of your health care. And that is. Does it tell all my patients to have a primary care and to have them in your back pocket? And we always say if if you're in an emergency acute situation, don't call the natural path, go to no save room. That is where Western medicine shines.

And exactly like you say, you need an ultrasound or something or a natural half can order it in certain states, then it's good to have a team supporting you. And optimally, that team all works together and all. But if not, at least then have a team who's like, I don't care what you're doing, it seems like it's working and I'll just guess I'll, I'll handle my lane. So so I mentioned your Instagram anywhere else that you want the ladies to know about where they can learn more from you? That's the big one I hang out Instagram.

I'm just starting to, God bless me, get into TikTok. I'm learning about it. Doc. My website is at Doctor Kerry Jones. And then I, am at Rupa Health. So, a variety of places. But Doctor Kerry Jones as well find me pretty much everywhere. Wonderful. Well, you are a blessing to the little world. So thank you for coming and sharing some of your wisdom with the ladies here at the summit. I think we we got a real good handle on detox now. So, go get your broccoli sprouts, go get your bugs Bunny, go get your urine test, find out what your hormones are doing, and you will be in good hands and on the way to good health and bring your menopause summit, your menopause transition.

So we'll be back with another talk. And until then, be well, stay healthy.