Unlock Fermented Soy’s Power Against Disease

Devin Stone, ND

But first, thank you for having me today.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

For everyone out there, Dr. Devin Stone graduated from UC Riverside with a degree in Medical Biology and a Master’s Level Education in Regenerative Medicine from the University of Utrecht in the Netherlands, as well as other certificates in fields such as Nutrition, Cancer Biology, Alternative Medicine, Drug-less Medicine, and more. Dr. Stone graduated with his medical degree, focusing on Naturopathic Medicine from Bastyr University, and now focuses on Oncology and Regenerative Medicine. Dr. Stone serves as a Medical Advisor to Haelan Products and helps to educate others on their flagship product, Haelan951. This is going to be cool because Haelan951 is a product, I know a lot of my friends use in their clinics with excellent results. I am excited to go through the journey towards that product and understand its benefits.

Devin Stone, ND

Perfect. Yes, I am excited to help answer any questions. People might have out there.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

I am curious: what drove you to watch oncology? It seems like almost in your studies you were moving towards that; it was not that you ended up becoming just a doctor, but you started learning about it even before that. What was your drive?

Devin Stone, ND

So, yes. Before school or before naturopathic medical school anyways got deep into the regenerative medicine field, which is just fascinating. Understand cellular biology on a whole new level, understanding just how you can manipulate the environment and change cells to function better for people. I think just having that basis behind it and also doing a Certificate in Oncology just made me understand that field pretty well. I would have to say that going to a naturopathic medical school was not an area I thought I was going to practice, to be honest. I always thought it was more of one of these gray and dim areas of medicine that I was like. I do not know if I could do that for my career. I know it is a beautiful field and something that people need to have, and I just wasn’t sure if that was something I could do. I had a different focus going into school.

But as I was going through my clinical rotations, I worked with a couple of our doctors at our school who did integrative oncology, and it was an area that I just found to be completely different than I expected, or as patients that I was able to draw huge connections with that seemed focused in their treatment plans that we were given, and just the patient-doctor relationship that was built was something that I just found to be so much stronger than some of my other patients and something that ended up just being rewarding, and I think that is why I became a doctor, because I do love helping people, and it is just an area that I just felt like I had such a connection with my patients. 

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Yes, it is, and I see that with the number of staff members that I bring in sometimes, oncology is a different beast in itself. You need to be able to be engaged, present, and connect with individuals. It does take a special individual to take that step. As you mentioned, the reward is tremendous. The amazing connections that you make are wonderful. When you see changes in people while they are battling with something as severe as cancer, it’s such a blessing.

Devin Stone, ND

I completely agree with that.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Talking about soy, which is going to be the topic of our discussion, soy is one of the things that has been going back and forth so much. We see people in Japan who use soy products, who live long, and who do not deal with as much breast cancer. so forth. Then, we come with soy over here, and then all of a sudden, soy is so horrible that it shuts down your thyroid and destroys your gut. All these different things. Talk to me a little about soy, and why can it be so good and bad at the same time.

Devin Stone, ND

Definitely. I think this is one of the amazing conversations, as I became part of this group as an advisor to even myself, understanding soy in more detail. I was at this plant and have been working at them for a little over a year, and I have done tons and tons of research on different products, how they are made, soy, and just general things, and even going through school. Some professors and doctors would say soy is just amazing. I am completely against it. There is just never a true consensus out there. I understand why there are a lot of nuances within soy itself. When we look at soy, just talking about soy in general, it has what we call phytoestrogens in it: different constituents that are called isoflavones, one very famous, one agonist, and that is out there. When we traditionally thought about it back in the day, when we did not have better molecular biology studies and whatnot, we just thought, Why would we give people extra estrogen if they have maybe these estrogen-positive cancers or have cancers or a different disease that might be exacerbated by having more phytoestrogens or estrogen in the body? It sounded like a great concept at the time. If I were under that same knowledge at that point, I would not want to give someone more estrogen if that could potentially make the disease even worse at that time. However, fast forward to more modern research today, and we know that soy, or these isoflavones, or the phytoestrogens within soy, work very differently than just stimulating these estrogen receptors. When we now know the estrogen receptors, there are different subunits for them. There is an alpha receptor or alpha subunit on the receptor and a beta. If estrogen attaches to that alpha subunit, it stimulates the cascade for the hormone to then go down its whole process afterward, which could stimulate cancer. However, we know these phytoestrogens lock onto the other subunit, the beta receptor, and with that, they block this from happening. Xenoestrogens, the extra estrogen that is in the body, would normally stimulate these pathways and help block them. Knowing this now with just more recent research, we know it is more of a protective type of agent in the body. Then we could just dove even deeper into that, just having good-quality soy. Now that we are talking about everything that is coming out there with modern-day soy, GMO soy is a whole other conversation.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Yes, and I think what you just mentioned is such a powerful piece of knowledge as understanding that all estrogenic substances are not alike. They do function differently. Estrogen, like soy, blocks them. The stronger estrogenic effect of a lot of the chemicals that we are exposed to, thus protecting us from the promotion of cancer and those things. It is almost like a bouncer. Yes, at a bar, know, just make sure whoever’s bad does not get in. We want to keep the peace inside the cell. We get the estrogen, which is the bouncer protecting the cell.

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly. That is a great analogy. It is that one in the future here.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Yes, you go down the rabbit hole a little bit, because, of course, we know we talk about GMOs. When we talk about the different things that are genetically modified the most, soy is just up there because it is such a huge money-making crop. Talk a little bit about that and what people should be concerned about. What is good soy? What is bad soy?

Devin Stone, ND

So. Yes, those initial conversations were just about soy in general; now we need their distinctive reasons why GMO soy versus true organic-grown soy. When we look at that, 94% of all soy is genetically modified as of today. Almost every product out there utilizes some type of genetically modified organism version of soy. What that means is that it does not hold the same standards. It has pesticides that are sprayed on it. The soils that we know that it is grown in are not rich in nutrients like they used to be. It composes a whole different type of product. yet, and so we have; it is going to be laden with the pesticides on there and not have the nutrient profile that we want. As I said, you are not getting a good product at the end of the day. That is another huge reason why soy could still be bad, even if we know the good ones have better benefits. But we have to find the products out there that are truly organic. Also, not having cross-pollination is a big aspect because a lot of soy is grown very differently, where different soy strains can cross-pollinate with one another and also not be as efficacious. the day the nutrients from the soil that it is being grown in, making sure they are getting into the plant, and then also potentially looking into how the product is processed after it is taken off the plant, which is something healing does by taking it through what is called a nitrogen fermentation process, which adds a whole other host of benefits to it as well.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

You have to do so when a person then goes to the store, and obviously, we are going to end up with Haelan951, which is a superfood. But then, if a person is just soy in itself if they go to, let us say, a store, what should they look for? What are some of the buzzwords that they should look for to be able to feel that this is something that can be beneficial for me?

Devin Stone, ND

Definitely. One thing I would always want to look into is organic. Organic. You are going to know part of that certification. Yes. It is not the end all, be all, but at least it gives you some metrics to stand by so that you will know it is a genetically modified organism, which helps remove the pesticides. It helps just give a better product. That is an easy way. Just to start with that, some other things that I would look for if you could find information about the product itself are the elevation at which it is grown, like Phalin, for instance. It is grown at a very high elevation in Tibet. That stops this whole cross-pollination with other plants in the area. We know it is the same strain year after year, and it is not changing its genetic makeup. Those are some of the big factors. I would say looking into that will just help. Just knowing you have a better soy product. Then the next step would be to see if you can find a fermented soy product that is going to help even more. That could be something like your tempeh versus just regular soy-based products or Haelan, for instance. It is also fermented. What that is going to do is, one, add rich probiotics to it, but also help break down and fight against it, which we know could do some harm to the gut. Also, how can it take out some of the minerals that we want to absorb afterward? That is another good process that helps make the chemical makeup and constituent makeup even better in the product.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Expands a little bit on the side of acid because I think that is important for people to understand because it does not relate just to soybeans or all beans. You mentioned that by not preparing the bean in a way, the fermentation can essentially destroy the gut, so let us talk a little bit more about that.

Devin Stone, ND

Definitely. With all bean products, we have a constituent called phytic acid, and two of the issues that come up with phytic acid are that it could destroy the gut barrier itself. That causes harm over time, inflammation, which then could lead to things like leaky gut and some of these other syndromes that are out there. The other aspect of it is that it also binds to some of the minerals. Some of the good minerals that we want to intake into our body to use as nutrients can bind to them and not allow us to absorb them as much. By taking beans one step further, by either fermentation them or sprouting them, a lot of companies out there will do what is called sprouting of beans as well, which can also help with this process of decreasing the acid. It helps remove one of the constituents that could potentially be problematic for a patient as well.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

How does Haelan951 stand out from the crowd? We talked about these isoflavonoids and the genistein, what are some of the other constituents that are so beneficial for health, and what are their impacts on the body?

Devin Stone, ND

One of the big pieces was soy, and this product itself is also a complete protein. That is just a very beneficial aspect of the product itself. It is going to have all of our essential amino acids, which are the amino acids from proteins that we cannot create ourselves. We have to get them through our diet. That helps us build neurotransmitters. That helps us build body mass, and the list goes on. But that gives us some of the basic nutrients to make sure we are properly giving our body what it needs. The funny part with this product is that it originally came out as a protein for people who were having cachexia, and they are using it for wasting diseases to give them that protein. They are used oftentimes in oncology patients to help them gain body mass back. Then they started seeing, oh, wow, they are getting a lot of other health benefits. That was not happening with some of the other protein sources that were given to them in the past. 

This is when they started diving deeper into research with this product to see what else they could do. Some of the other constituents as well are extremely anti-inflammatory. As we know, all disease is some type of inflammation process that is happening within the body. Decreased inflammation is very beneficial. Then, just by fermenting it, we are going to get a rich source of probiotics. That is a huge world that is exploding today and that we have known for quite some time. All these microbes—there are more of them—are part of us than our cells. Giving our body the good support of these probiotics allows for neurotransmitter production, helps with hormone regulation, and helps with vitamins being absorbed and manufactured to give to our body. The list goes on with probiotics, and every day more and more seems to be coming out in that world. But that is just another one of the benefits there. There is just so much that every week I feel like I learn more about this product. I just find more and more information about how it can help people.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

We know ourselves. We are what we eat, but we are also a part of what the environment is as well. We are molded by our epigenetics, our lifestyle, and what we are exposed to. when you grow with food like soy, being like Haelan951, to then create an optimum environment where one yes, here you have that high elevation, so which is going to put a tremendous amount we win, we know up, you said like 3000 plus feet. Yes, it is not going to be an easy street; it is not going to be easy to grow there because the elements are so harsh. In a plant, just like ourselves, if we grow up in a harder type of environment, then we have to develop skills to protect ourselves, and I know in a plant it is the same thing. Yes, you then have to concentrate and develop nutrients and things to be able to survive in that environment. Then you mentioned it also has all that volcanic ash that is there. It is going to be extremely mineral-rich as well.

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly. I think that there are so many layers that Haelen takes to make sure they have this perfect crop. At the end of the day, it is phenomenal to me because, like once again, when we just think about soy, we think about these huge fields of GMO soy being grown and sprayed and just crop after crop being manufactured through there, over time. It is just this industrial complex of soy that is going on. I wish I could go see the area that Haelan has grown in one day because it just sounds phenomenal up there like you said, high elevations in Tibet. It is all fertilized with volcanic ash. Each bean is hand-picked at its ripest. It is just truly going into having good plant medicine under the sun.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

A person ingests one of these eight-ounce bottles. How much soy is put into that bottle and how so? Yes, because you are getting all these nutrients from how many soy beans you are concentrating into that one bottle.

Devin Stone, ND

I would have to go back to that exact number. It is something extremely high. I do not know if you have it in your notes there.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

I think it was like 25 pounds, which to me is just astounding. Here you are drinking this tiny little bottle, and it is then 25 pounds of the superfood that is grown in high-altitude volcanic ash and people handpicked. You go through this whole fermentation process and you draw these nutrients into just as concentrated, with all the protein amino acids, like you said, in cachexia and immune-boosting and all this and just that one bottle of 25 pounds of it. Can you imagine eating 25 pounds of soy?

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly. It is undoable. Unless you could do this later,

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

What are some things we talked a little bit about in protecting them from estrogenic impact or negative estrogenic impact gain? Can I go through it in regards to cancer? Yes. You mentioned inflammation as well as cachexia. What are some of the impacts that have been studied and shown, and how can they benefit an individual dealing with cancer?

Devin Stone, ND

Of course. For Cancer, there are a few mechanisms for how it could help. For myself, I would pretty much use it on any cancer patient, not just the estrogen-positive cancers that we talked about at the beginning. If someone does have airway or estrogen receptor-positive cancer, this is one of the first things I do because, as I said, it will help block that cascade. Unfortunately, today, there are just so many estrogens that are being put into the human body from outside sources, such as plastic products we are putting on our body. It is just an abundance in every way. It can help protect against that. However, there are other properties of this product that help with cancer as well. One, it helps stop the blood vessel formation going to the cancer cell itself. By not allowing that to happen, it prevents metastasis. It helps stop the cancer from growing over time. then it also has what are called apoptotic processes. It will help kill cancer cells in the end as well. 

Other research in areas that have been, I think, highly beneficial as well is that it has also been very protective in terms of people going through radiation or chemotherapy as well as our native cells. That is also a great benefit if we are looking to potentially use it in conjunction or integrated fully with conventional treatments that are going on with the patient, because it could, one, help protect the native cells and also give a little extra boost to fighting some of the cancer cells due to the properties within it. Then lastly, as we said as well, just supporting the body on a nutritional level is always something I find so fascinating with the patients I work with in the integrative oncology spaces. Yes, we will go down the course if conventional care is part of the process. But regardless of where they are going, keeping the body vibrant and vital at all portions of this whole process is something that I think is so important and often not done with patients all the time. That is something I love doing. It is like, how can we just support your body from a functional level as well, whether that be good foods you are eating or antioxidants you are taking in? Just keeping yourself in the most vibrant state is going to help no matter what course you go in some manner there. That is a great part of this product as well. Just on a basic macro-micronutrient level, what it could do nutritionally is amazing.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

One of the issues when we were talking about cachexia, and, in addition to that, we have the immune system because of things like our protein levels and our albumin levels, which start to go low. Then we do not have the raw material to produce the white blood cells that we need. All of a sudden, we, in addition to obviously losing weight and energy that way, are also losing immune function. To be able to then have such a concentrated food that will drive that process and boost immunity becomes important in cancer.

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly. That works twofold, with this product, some research studies are showing one can activate natural killer cells, or NK cells, which are white cells that naturally go around and find cancer cells and kill them, and it can help with that aspect. But then also, just on a nutrient level, we need these proteins to even make these guys to begin with. has a double-sided sword there for attacking.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

It is not. This study, if you go on PubMed, shows that this product has been studied and shown in studies to work.

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly. Yes. There is a lot of research out there on Haelan as well as other fermented soy products. That was one of the reasons I started working with this company. I wanted to make sure that if I was working at that company or out there talking, it was efficacious. It is not just something to help support myself. It is something I wanted to make sure I could use with my patients and live behind this name as well. That was something so important. Obviously, like myself, we are trained in natural modalities, but we also want to see the research behind them. We want to see the mechanisms of action behind it so we know why and how this is working in a patient to make sure we can deliver the best care to a patient. That, yes, is natural, but we know it works, and we know how it works for somebody.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

As an individual, I have different people at different stages in life. Depending on where they’re at and what they are battling, I would assume that they are general guidelines as to, for example, protocol and what to do. If you are dealing with something as serious as cancer, you should be under the care of somebody guiding you through any program. But what are some general guidelines if you are dealing with something severe? If you are just wanting to prevent something, you can just do less. What are some guidelines for people out there to understand what the quantity would look like?

Devin Stone, ND

Of course. Yes.  Just like you said, if you are looking to treat or help yourself, definitely talk with your doctor beforehand and make sure they understand how to utilize this. In my practice, when I have the green light with the patient, my protocol is typical, if you are just using it for prevention or daily maintenance, do not have anything big going on. Like myself, I take the product daily just because I know prevention is a huge aspect of cancer cells building in my body. I have inflammation going on daily, and I need protein daily. I typically take 1 to 2 ounces a day just as maintenance. That is just a small portion of one bottle for my patients that have more serious diseases; they will go anywhere from half to a full bottle a day to give them, and I sometimes have them break that out throughout the day to keep having a dosage of it throughout the day. But there are more serious complications. I drop a full bottle a day.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

What are the negative effects or things that people should watch out for in regards to using this product or its correlation with other types of oncology care, medication, or anything else?

Devin Stone, ND

I would consult with your doctor, depending on the exact case that you have, and everyone is case-dependent. There has not been a patient that I have not seen too far, as sometimes patients with thyroid-type issues I might steer away from it at times just because there could potentially be what we call goiter-genic effects or because it affects the thyroid gland. We have not seen that or had many cases, or I have not heard of any cases coming back to healing. Being out for over 20 years now, that has been the case, but I still like to air on the side of precaution at times if there may be something else, for most of my patients, this is something very safe to utilize with them at this time. 

One of the big caveats that we do tell everyone out there, though, is that it does not taste good as a fermented soy product. If we already think about fermentation in general and then take this, it is a thick, smelly, and not the best-tasting product. That is one of the caveats. We put that out there. But it is something; if you are taking an ounce a day, you could take it directly and make it into a smoothie. We also have a mint flavoring that is now capable of being brought to add to the product to help with that. I have got to say that after some time, I started to get used to it. We always joked in Naturopathy School that sometimes the stuff that tastes a little worse, we feel like we are getting better anyway, has that extra kick. There is some truth to that behind this one, but outside of that, we are pretty safe and have a very safe product to work with most people.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Yes, I think a lot of us are naturopaths. Yes, we could almost be considered masochistic. We would do things that nobody else wanted to do, and we feel this. This is horrible. It should be great for me. 

Devin Stone, ND

Yes, exactly.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

I have to agree with regards to the taste. I know it is funny because there are all these conferences you go to, and Haelan has a booth, and that is, each time I try to muster up the energy to go, I have got to take a swig of this and that. But it is also interesting. I have my wife; she deals with an autoimmune condition, and she gets these sores on her legs or different parts of her body. it is a vasculitis type of condition. She started to get one of these sores and started taking the Haelan. She can feel how the inflammation is going down and how the sources are healing. To her, it did not taste that bad. It varies from person to person. Yes, it is a powerful product.

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly. Sometimes it is amazing how smart the body can be when it knows it will take it.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

What have you seen in your practice? You have been using this. What are some of the stories that you have seen?

Devin Stone, ND

Just this morning, one of my good friends, a gynecologist, I think his cousin. She just got diagnosed with colon cancer, and he’s like, Where would you go first with this? She is going to go. She wants to take the conventional path, but it is like, what else could help with this? Off the top of my mind, Haelan goes out there to meet these types of people. With that said, we know we are digesting it, so luckily a lot of it is going to stay within the GI tract because that is the first exposure that is going to occur. great application with that. For anyone who has autoimmune disease or inflammation, I like to use it in those types of patients as well. Just by helping immunomodulatory of the body and decreasing inflammation, we see all of these other aspects of the treatment plan working so much faster. I have to say that it is something that I usually do in conjunction with other treatments on which I am working. It is not always my standalone product, but adding it to the mix is always something that I just see better outcomes at this time with my patients because it works on so many different mechanisms in the body that almost everyone could benefit in some manner. In my practice, I have been fortunate to work with a couple of extreme athletes at this point too, and it is something I recommend to them all the time because they are obviously putting their bodies through a lot throughout their seasons or whatnot and also having to make sure they are getting adequate protein intake. It is also a nice answer for people who are healthy, but just making sure they need to give their bodies maintenance. We have seen just fewer injuries happening and fewer complications throughout their season. That has been something cool to see as well with this.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Yes, just since your fascination with regenerative medicine as well, in addition to oncology, this is such an extremely regenerative food. You know, if you are just focusing on anti-aging, you do not have to be dealing with cancer.

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly.  I think that is something very important. The way we are trying prevention is a huge aspect of the way we are trained. Why just go to your doctor when you are sick? Let’s look at ways that we can help prevent diseases from manifesting in the future as well. This is one of those products. Definitely, like I was saying earlier, why do I still take it daily? I do not have any health concerns as of today that I am thinking about. But if I could delay or potentially stop something by taking one little swig a day or something that could add to that next, obviously I am doing other aspects of my health to help prevent it too. But this is something that just goes into that plan for me and many others.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

One of the fascinating things that I have learned in regard to this product is its impact on all of the steroidal pathways for people dealing with stress, like PTSD and anxiety, and things that have even been shown to benefit the mental aspect as well.

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly. I think that is something that we do have some research focusing on PTSD and helping it with some more victims, and that had great outcomes as well. But if we have not fully correlated all of the exact mechanisms, if we can think of it theoretically as of today, decreasing inflammation, which also decreases inflammation on the brain, we know is a huge portion of why we have some of these mental illnesses giving back some of the basic nutrients, such as the B vitamins and amino acids, as well as the probiotics that could help make some of the neurotransmitters that help support the brain. There are just so many layers to this to even help with that whole world that is being explored more and more.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Yes.  The cool thing is that, since it is a fermented product, it is a pre-digestible product. Even though your gut may be horrible and you can absorb food very well here, you can just get nutrients that are fed to you on a silver platter and then work on healing the gut while you are feeding the individual at the same time.

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly.  I think that is something nice. It is so easy to digest, just like you said. In some of my patients with autoimmune diseases, there is often a lot of inflammation within the gut itself. Cancer patients as well, just due to wheezing or if they are on any chemotherapy, agents can potentially cause havoc there too. It is nice that it is something that you can easily consume throughout the day and get that super dense nutrient load back like you are just saying. We are talking about how many soybeans go into this product. If we put some of these patients, I could barely eat having to eat that amount throughout the day, but being able to intake that whole nutrient load in a very small, hearty, as you said, easily digestible beverage just makes things so much easier for so many patients to be able to consume as well.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

I just want to circle back to one of the things where you are being cautious in regards to the thyroid because there are so many people dealing with hypothyroidism that I do not want them to. I think that because my thyroid is a little bit low and I am on thyroid medication, they should feel that there is a strong concern. You are talking more when there is a big issue with the thyroid, I would assume.

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly correct. Yes, we know that. It could potentially have goitrogenic effects. We know it is also pretty low. When we do a cost-benefit analysis for a patient that usually favors using this product, let’s use it because the immunomodulation with the whole body that this could do could outweigh the potential goitrogenic effects in terms of helping with hypothyroidism in some cases, which is autoimmune-related, and conditions like this. It is a case-by-case with any of these out there. But just that is one of the areas I just think about a little bit more with some patients, if that is potential there and what is the cost-benefit usually does weigh in the side of oh, now this is still a very safe and easy product to work with, especially if all the other aspects of what this product can do for people show that it could be more efficacious in their treatment plan. That is where it goes most of the time for me.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Yes.  Studies are showing that the majority, almost the majority, of hypothyroidism is a subclinical type of Hashimoto’s, which is an autoimmune condition. and then having a tool like this that can control that inflammation and reduce the impact of immune stress on the thyroid becomes a powerful tool. Then, if you need to, support the thyroid with some other nutrients at the same time. To me, that seems like a win-win.

Devin Stone, ND

Exactly. I completely agree with that.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Well, this has been awesome. Is there anything else that you feel we have not covered, that we have not shed, that is important to discuss? There are so many people here that I know have questions, and I think we covered the majority, but there may be something else that is important to address as well.

Devin Stone, ND

I think we went through some of the major pieces that are out there. I think the biggest is just diving deeper into your research. I think that is so important because I think this is one of those plants out there that has so much controversy around it. It depends on who you talk to. But when you dove into the latest research, what is happening, and the differences between conventional GMOs as well as old, organically grown soy, there are just so many nuances that we need to look into to understand what the differences are in terms of our health outcomes with these products. I think just going back to that at all times, making sure you are armed with that information, because I know if you do take the pro-soy side after this, which I did, I was honestly not even a fan of soy before understanding more about it. I was always in the misconception world, but keep yourself armed because I know if you do talk about it, there will be people out there who will have the opposite opinion. It is good to know the facts behind it.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Well, Dr. Stone, thank you so much for this discussion and for bringing this to light because, as you mentioned, it has been such a controversial subject and people have been so afraid of soy when they should be afraid of certain types of soy, but not soy that is a superfood. Thank you so much.

Devin Stone, ND

Of course. Thank you so much for your time today, Michael.