Unlock Fertility With Creativity And Maca’s Power

Introduction and interview goals 0:00

Welcome back to The Super Fertility Summit. I'm your host, Dr. Cleopatra, and I'm so excited to bring to you in this interview, Dr. Deanna Minich. Deanna you are a nutrition scientist, an educator and author with over 20 years of experience in academia and in the natural product industries. You currently serve as Chief Science Officer at Symphony Natural Health, and you've been active as a functional medicine clinician in clinical trials and in your own practice. (Food & Spirit™) You're the author of six consumer books on wellness topics, four book chapters and over 50 scientific publications.

Through your talks, workshops, groups, and in-person retreats, you help people to transform their lives, practice practically and artfully, which I love through nutrition and lifestyle. Thank you so much for being here with us today, Dr. Deanna, I appreciate it. Oh, it's a delight. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk about this topic. Yes, it's going to be a wonderful conversation because we're going to talk about a specific ingredient that a lot of people hear about in the fertility space.

But you have a level of of knowledge and study of this particular plant that most people don't have. And so I'm really excited to dive into this conversation with you. So I love to start our conversations thinking about the end. And I would love to ask you

Creativity, art, and healing the body 1:51

when we finish this conversation today, what do you hope the person listening to our voices right now will be able to take away? I think, first and foremost, that sometimes fertility and looking at one's ability to conceive requires that we have to look at all different angles. So not just something physical. There might be something emotional, mental and even spiritual, you know, and I'd like to talk a little bit about my journey with art in my own body and what that opened up for me. And hopefully give that to the listeners is something that maybe they haven't tried. So that's number one.

And then number two, I want to give them some ahas as it relates to how to use plans and even certain select foods to better nourish the body for a fertile outcome. And so one of those plans that we're going to talk about is Maca. And why not all Maca is created equal. So we'll get into the, the research and then give people takeaways as to how do you actually bring that into your everyday life, and how do you make choices around different products. I love that so much. Okay. I would love for you to tell us a little bit about art and your experience with your own body.

Well, this is, something a little bit unique, I must admit, because you just introduced me as kind of a nerdy scientist who is. I've been in nutrition for decades, so I had a lot of issues with my own reproductive system. So this went back into my teen years. So I have a family history of endometriosis. That was something that I took on at a very young age. I had irritable bowel syndrome, endometriosis, and that was in the day and age of like when there really wasn't a lot of information on health and healing in the way that we know it now.

And I feel like we're living in such great times to have access to this information. So into my 20s, you know, I'm kind of fumbling through graduate school and I kind of have my peaks and valleys of, you know, just not feeling well in my body and trying out different things. And eventually, you know, one of the coping mechanisms for me was to start to paint. And what I started to do this was in my late 20s. I was finishing up my PhD and I was not having a great weekend. I was stressed out with all of, you know, my research and all of that.

So I went up to the art store, just very impromptu, and I bought this big roll of paper and I bought paints, and I started to paint this big image, which was very abstract. It was, you know, red, yellow, black, just this big of a form. And I just put it up on my wall. And I noticed that every time I felt stressed, I went to this art, you know, and I kind of felt like I got it out. Whatever was in this in me, I just got it out through the art. So fast forward years later, I meet my future husband and he is into music, and he sees that I'm doing this painting thing every now and then and he looks.

It was a Saturday night, we're at home and he's looking at my paintings. And he said, Deanna, do you think that your painting in your your ovaries and your uterus and you're putting them all over the house and you know, he's. My. Because I was you know, there was like a typical shape, you know, and I have a heart shaped uterus. I never had a full, separation. And so I have, you know, just basically I it looks like a heart. Even my gynecologist drew it. And what I was drawing was a heart with two swirls over and over and over again.

And Mark was right. I was putting these paintings, which were pink gold and orange, all over the house, and I didn't even see it. But once he said that, I began painting even more and I started to connect with my body and I began painting the phases of my uterus, I did conception, I did menstruation, I did menopause, I did the whole circuitry. And then I have a little a friend of ours has a neighborhood art gallery, and I displayed all of these paintings, which some people say, like, look a little bit Georgia O'Keeffe like, because, you know, they're kind of abstract and flowery and very feminine.

So shortly thereafter, after I had this art gallery exhibit, I had to go for my annual gynecologist appointment. And what I didn't mention was that my endometriosis has had become so bad that I formed adhesions, and I had blocked off one of my fallopian tubes, and it became like a fluid filled sac. And that's called the hydrogen cell pinks. So every year I would have to go in to be sure that that hydrogen cell pinks was okay, that it wasn't causing any issues. So I did this whole art thing, and then I go in August to go get my my scan.

And basically she cannot find the hydrogen cell pinks. Yeah. I don't know if it's because of the art. I don't know if it's because I lowered my stress, I don't know, but I had endometriosis for a long time and it was doing a lot of inflammatory damage to my body. So when my gynecologist looked at the report, she said, what are you doing? That's different because this doesn't normally resolve. And I said, well, believe it or not, I have been painting, I use color, I use imagery, and I've been painting and just showing people my art.

So she said, well, whatever you're doing, just keep doing it. That's fine. So my first message to everybody is that sometimes, oh, and by the way, the, the person who was doing the ultrasound on me, she said, your uterus looks beautiful. And I started crying on the table. It was a dark room, you know, she goes to the screen up there. But yes, it was really because I never had, like, this connection with my uterus. I always felt like it was causing me problems. It didn't love me back. but actually it was one of my biggest messengers.

And, you know, I, I feel like I stored a lot of my emotions in that part of my body. Sometimes people store their emotions in their fascia, their muscle, their skin, their gut. I think for me, it was my uterus, and I needed to express things that were not coming out in the traditional way. So that's why I want to say to everybody that I don't know if art or being creative can help to heal any issue with fertility. I can't speak for that for anybody. But what I know is that fertility equals creativity.

And when we're not being creative in our lives and we're stressed out or contracted, we're constricted, we're restricted. And I grew up with a police officer. Dad and I grew up Catholic. There was a lot of restriction and rules and regimen in my life, especially around sexuality. And I think that I just kind of went on in my life without that awareness and knowing. So I know that you expected me to talk a little bit more about the science, which I know we'll get into, but there is a piece of quantum science that we're starting to realize that emotional health has a ripple through effect into our physiology, and sometimes I think that our health can start in our psyche, start in the psychology, and sometimes it's starting in the body, and sometimes it's a two way street.

So I wanted to mention that creativity is a healing salve. And I feel like for women and men, I do think men need create. We all are creative. We're all artists, and the more that we get into sync with that creative flow, which is truly life force, the more that we run through us, that that same force and then open up different things and channels. So beautiful talk to you. Deanna, I want to thank you so much for sharing that story. It is so magical to me and we have so many interesting parallels, in, in how we came to painting.

I, I won't take time to say, but my loss losing my mother at birth, I also drove me to turn to painting when I started my academic career, even though I never painted, I had no idea what I was doing, and I was always painting pregnant women and and the the bodies of women. There. Uteruses. So how incredible that story. I didn't have the the the enemy or enemy crosses or physical health problems that led me there, but really interesting. And one thing that I love is, well, first of all, orange is the color of fertility.

And you were painting in origin, pink and gold, which feel so such fertile colors. But also I always say that the energies of survival and the energy of creation oppose one another. And so when we're living in a state of emergency and trying to survive, it's very hard to be in our full creative power. Whether it's super babies, we want to make our art we want to make, or some other grassroots contribution or whatever. It is, what we do at the Fertility and Pregnancy Institute, and I love how you gave us this beautiful real life example of how you've you found a medium that helped you to step out of stress and trauma and emergency and into peace and pleasure and finding yourself love in the expression of this part of yourself, in your body, your sexuality, your womb, that you you really felt separate from and cut off from, and maybe, shame around because of the restrictions of the cultural and social and religious conditioning.

And I think we all, as women have our own version of that, whatever our religious background or whatever our family backgrounds. It's I hope that's shifting. But I think most of us grew up with either, neglect or outright disdain for the more feminine and sexual and sensual parts of ourselves and were pushed to be more masculine, to survive in a world where masculine qualities are revered, are respected, and get you the successes that you're looking for. And so there, you know, and I, I'm an academic as well.

And I have my PhD and did my postdoctoral training and was on, you know, got tenure and all of that. So I absolutely understand how masculine that environment and context is

Plants, carotenoids, and maca for fertility 12:38

and how how much we have to lead with our masculinity. In fact, I was told so many times, your voices too feminine, your hair is too feminine, your body's too feminine. I mean, and I would wear layers and layers of clothing to try to hide my curves because my body is just so curvy, like, can't be denied, you know, and I would my husband would always be like, babe, you don't have to wear three shirts. It's like summer in Los Angeles, you know? And I would just try so hard to cover my femininity so that I wouldn't be judged by it.

And, and so I really understand that. So there was there was so much richness in the story you told us. I mean, we could go so many places. And I want I feel like I want to, like, shouldn't sit next to you and talk to you forever about it. I know we want to dive into the plans, but I just want to say thank you. Oh, well, I didn't know that you had such a similar story. So I feel such a connection. And it's it's nice to open up that conversation for women. Right? That at some level we all feel this and for for some others, it may not be art like in the true sense of like abstract painting or painting pregnant women's bodies.

It might be music, it might be poetry. You know, for so many women, it's about when I think of the throat. To me, this is a mirror of the bottom right. We have the birth canal. That's physical. We have the throat canal, which is emotional, mental. So for many women it might be singing, it might be express expressing through voice. So I just want to toss that in. So for people listening to us and thinking, oh my gosh, I have to go buy canvases and pencils and paints, go where you feel called creatively.

Because even for me, it's changing. I don't paint as much anymore. Now it's about sound. You know, I've been using different kinds of vibrational frequencies and music. I have a different resonance now than I had in my 20s and 30s and 40s, so. Understood and actually in the Prime Minister protocol at the Fertility and Pregnancy Institute, we talk about frequencies that can be healing for the glands and for the fertility and pregnancy system in general. And we also talk about the link between the throat and the sex organs and the birth canal.

And one of the things that I've observed in my almost three decades of doing this work, with thousands of families is that women who don't feel as safe at home, maybe from their childhoods, but but also in their present reality, and especially who for who. They're partners, especially if they have male partners, treat them sort of like children are very disempowered in their voice and also in their reproductive potential. And and I have observed this link over and over again, and we talk about it in the Prime Minister protocol.

So I love that you've talked about frequencies. You've talked about the voice. And think about it, because the unnatural instinct in childbirth is to vocalize. And people who try to keep their mouth closed in birth have a much harder time opening up to get to give birth. And they're there's a lot to be said for that in terms of making our super babies as well as birthing them. so thank you. I just want to say thank you so much. I, I absolutely adore this conversation. And I have I'm having a lot of feelings.

but it's so beautiful. And thank you for what you've shared with us. It's it's really. Pleasure. Really. I don't think we anticipated going this, but it's really special that it just came out right. So yes. Absolutely, absolutely. And just one more, note about what you said. Go where you feel lead, be in your your full creation and creative power, wherever that is for you. So for me, I mean, I love dancing. That's when I'm most alive and creative and everybody has their own thing. But I think also sometimes we need to know what it is that we love, especially those of us who love.

Been working really hard most of our lives and really goal oriented. Sometimes we have forgotten that downtime from white space and hobbies are really meaningful and really a window into the soul and what what we're yearning for. So follow where you feel. Lead creatively, and if you don't know where that is, get really curious about it, because there's there's power there. There is power. And if I can just make mention of one last thing before we move on, because creativity has been such a strong cornerstone in my own healing journey and what I've seen with other people, I have even brought to the forefront that there are seven creatives, that we have all of these creatives, but they may come out at different times, or we may have one that's stronger.

So I have a food creative, a flowing creative, which is more of what I was exhibiting with the emotions, and they're all aligned to the chakra system. So then the other one is more of the thinking, creative, the strategist. Then you have the movement, creative like you, who likes to dance, move like people who like to be outdoors in nature, in green. Then there's this speaking creative that we talked about a little bit. Then there's the, the visual creative, like somebody who needs to see something, you know, and that was part of the painting as well.

But that could be somebody into photography, graphics, interior design, fashion. Like they have to see something. And then the connection creative, which is somebody who their creativity flows when they're inspired or they are in moments of awe. So we can run the spectrum of all of these different creatives at any given moment. But typically there's one that's kind of leading us. So whether it's, you know, being into food and nourishing the body, nourishing different aspects about the body or, you know, moving into the emotional sphere, the thinking sphere movement.

So, you know, I really do think that we can play along that spectrum and just go where it takes us. As you mentioned. I love that so much. And probably in different spaces in our lives. We're in different creatives, more right in my work. I'm definitely the thinking creative in my family life. I'm definitely the movement creative because, you know, we like to play and play physically like games and sports and, you know, work out at home. But in my work it's all about. So I think, yeah, I think that's just absolutely beautiful.

I love that so much. And I, I don't think that there's enough conversation about how important the energy of creation and creativity those energies are for our health and well-being, including our fertile well-being. So I love that so much. I maybe I have to say this conversation, this part of the conversation. I would love to continue with you one day. Both like behind closed doors, just the two of us and also and, you know, out in the open for other people to benefit from because I really have loved this.

So thank you for leading us off in this way intuitively to a place that we didn't know we were going with this conversation and may bless everyone who has heard and observed it. Tell us about plants and their role in fertility, and especially that maca plant that so many people talk about and hear about when it comes to fertility. Yeah. So to transition from art and creativity into plants, which I believe are the feminine force on the planet, like plants in my opinion, are in tune with nature, in tune with the rhythms.

They exhibit different qualities, different phytochemicals depending on where they're grown, how they're nurtured. So we can take in so much from the medicine of plants, but it requires that we find the right plant grown in the right location, exhibiting the best phytochemicals for what we need. So my master's thesis was all on carotenoids, which are the colorful pigments, so that if we think of like a, a tomato that is red, that's because of the, the lycopene, which is a carotenoid. If we think of the orange of a carrot, that's because of the beta carotene, which is again a carotenoid.

So I just want to make a high level comment about these carotenoids before we dive into another plant category. Looking at maca within the carotenoids, certain ones seem to collect within the ovaries. In fact, there was a publication some years ago in which they found 13 to 14 different carotenoids concentrated within the ovaries. And it appears that the ovaries like to concentrate those orange yellow carotenoids, which syncs up very nicely with the sacral chakra. Right? Yes, exactly. And because it's a precursor to vitamin A and vitamin A is required for the ovulatory process at a genetic level.

So if you look at some of the studies eating orange fruits that are high in certain carotenoids, and I won't get into all the names of them. But if we think of tangerines, mandarins, oranges, persimmons, mango, a lot of these, you know, you might consider them tropical fruits, but they do contain appreciable amounts of these different carotenoids that seem to be important for keeping the ovaries healthy. So I just I'll say that from a diet perspective, we need to be attentive to that. And I know I have gone through certain parts of my life where I craved mango like I needed a mango.

Even today, I still have those moments where I'm like, I need mango. It's I. Love, I love mango, and I fell in love with persimmon this year. I was introduced to it in my 20s in grad school because it's, popular in Persian cuisine. And I had some Persian classmates in grad school, and but I didn't. I liked it, but I didn't fall in love with it. And then this year, I fell in love with persimmon. So good. One thing. Yeah. Yes, they're very luscious, but then they have a certain kind of texture. And so the energetics of food, I think, is important, just like the physical qualities and what they're imparting from a phytochemical perspective.

So that's one category, I think for women out there to get more orange colored for fruits. I think that this is important in the science would suggest that for men, I think more red colored fruits. The watermelon, the cherries, the tomatoes. I mean, so many studies on lycopene in prostate health. And in sperm health also. Yes. Yeah. Let's you. Thank you. So then we have separate from the carotenoids in those colorful compounds which I write about in the Rainbow Diet, one of my books. We have mocha.

Now, I came in to mocha a little bit later in life. What is mocha? Mocha looks like a tuber. It grows in the earth. It has leaves that come out. So it's kind of like a beat where it's in the ground. You pull it out and you can see the tuber and you can see the little roots. Now one of the things most people think of when they think of mocha is, oh, I'll just go to the grocery store and just buy some mocha powder. Because mocha is a superfood. I heard it will give me energy. I'll put it in my smoothie.

It's this brown powder. Kind of no distinction, right? And I think that's how mocha has come to be known. However, there are 17 different phenotypes of mocha, so not all mocha will do the same effects. Some will have an effect on the adrenals, and it will start to modulate cortisol and stress hormones in the body. So for some people who may have, you know, energy or fatigue issues, that that might be good. Certain kinds of mocha, other kinds of mocha are more tailored to the ovaries. And getting the communication in sync between the brain and the ovaries in order to produce more estradiol, progesterone to start to harmonize hormones.

So that would be referred to as nourishing the hypothalamus, the pituitary, the thyroid, adrenal, ovarian access, so that certain types do that. But not all types. Other types nourish the testicular access and are more. And for genic they will increase testosterone. And so in some cases, for a woman with PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome, if she were to take the wrong kind of maca, she could have acne. She could have hair loss, she could have, an exacerbation of that higher androgenic state that if she exhibits that, that would not be very helpful.

And then some forms of mocha have no effect on hormones whatsoever. So I think that the lesson and what I learned from going through this deep dive, looking at research as it relates to mocha, is because there are 17 different phenotypes. You have to know what you're taking, and if you just go to the store and just get a big bag of mocha, it's just going to say organic whole mocha powder or something like that. You know, you might be able to find like a black mocha, a red mocha powder, a yellow mocha.

But those mocha powders will not be standardized to the actives that we know actually get in and start to modulate hormones. So when I think of fertility specifically, since that's our focus, because there are certain mocha phenotypes for perimenopause, there are even certain types for post menopause, there are certain types for prostate health, for bone mineral density. We're not going to talk about those. But I do want to talk about the ones that would be seen for fertility and the certain mocha phenotypes that have been put together and studied in order to help with hormone balance.

Right. Just meeting a woman where she's at hormonally it's called feminist science. Mocha harmony. This product has actually been, out circulating for some time since about 2006, and is part of the feminist science mocha harmony, I would say the platform and what the medical team has heard, which I am connected to, and I work with Symphony Natural Health, which makes the feminist stance mocha harmony is what we would call feminists babies. So when women start to take the product, they start to get their cycles balanced.

and after a couple of months, they start to feel better. They have more energy. And so there's this harmonization that starts to take place. So there are case reports that have been published on it. And so we've been seeing this over the years that, I feel like it's one of the best kept secrets for women who are aiming to try to be fertile is to align the hormones, not by taking, I would say, exaggerate hormones and manipulating the cycle, but to be in sync with the menstrual cycle in such a way that a plant is informing the endocrine system of a woman and optimizing it.

It's almost like the the mocha phenotypes, the feminine. Since mocha harmony is coming in and tuning the communication within that endocrine circuit to help her to produce. And it doesn't matter if she's estrogen dominant, she has low progesterone. Wherever she's at, it can help to calibrate and get that symphony going on the inside. I like how you say that the symphony going on the inside. That's so beautiful. thank you so much for sharing that. And this is there also counterpart for males that that's made okay.

Yeah actually there is and there are clinicians in the field, who actively use, a lot of these different products. And Doctor Marc Sklar, who is in San Diego,

Environment, blue light, and super fertility 29:38

he has a fertility clinic, and he uses a lot of revolution. Revolution is the the one for men. Now that you would not want to take if you were a woman, because if it had right, it has different phenotypes. It's very specialized to the functional outcome that you're seeking. But the beauty of Moca is that it's a Peruvian plant. It's been grown in Peru and identified since the 1500s. I was just in Peru this past December and I was on a journey there. It was more of a spiritual journey and kind of observing the culture.

Peru has such a beautiful connection to plants. So when you grow maca outside of its native originating origin, like where it is normally, grown and where it thrives, it doesn't produce the same phytochemicals. And we've seen this with maca grown in China, where in China they grow. Typically you'll see it in rose. In Peru they have kind of this circular because they have a lot of altitude. They grow on in a different way, and they have different drying processes like they use the sun, they use a lot of natural elements.

And so the Peruvians have really come to know maca in a very deeper way. you know, it's been part of their culture for so long. It's even part of their foods. You know, people drink maca juice. They get different forms of maca. Maca is known to help with resilience and stress response. And so living at high altitudes and having maca grown at high altitudes can help to prime the different phytochemicals in that plant. And coincidentally, certain ones of those just happened to affect our hormones.

But we have to know what we are taking because it could backfire. Where, we take a maca that doesn't do what we want it to do. Okay. Got it. So I love what you said, which is that the plant has to be resilient to grow in that environment, in its native environment. And it brings us those resilient properties when when it comes from its native place. So that's so, so beautiful. Thank you for that, doctor. Deanna, can you tell me if there were just one thing that you would recommend that somebody do to take care of their fertility in their future super babies?

What what would that one thing beef, if you had to focus on just one thing? Well, we didn't talk about it, but I think that people need to start with looking at their environment. They need to look at detoxification. And so because the planet is increasingly filled with a lot of these different endocrine disruptors, I think we need to first start with what can we avoid right before we bring in a lot of the feminine essence, maca harmony. And we're bringing in certain dietary aspects. You know, all of those things.

I think looking at our environment and one of the big here here might be an for the listeners. Most of us know that plastics are bad. We know that heavy metals are bad. And I'm sure that anybody trying to get pregnant is aware of that. But one of the most societally accepted endocrine disruptors is artificial blue light. And most people know this. They do not know that that artificial blue light at night is disrupting thyroid, pineal, PO2, Chiari the entire endocrine circuit can be disorganized and dysfunctional as a result of this toxic exposure.

Blue light at the right time, at the wrong time of day. So that's why I would mention that, because you and I were talking about melatonin before we came on. Yes, but it's not just melatonin synthesis that plummets when we're in artificial blue light at night, because melatonin is connected to cortisol, connected to testosterone, connected to all of the other hormones. It's like the ripple through effect. So if there's just one thing of where to start, I like to go with kind of the low hanging fruit, which is watch your light at night.

We have darkness deficiency, right? We do enough darkness. We don't get enough of the yin, the rest, the restoration and a lot of that process physically happens at night when we're sleeping. So if there's just one place to start before we start to add in things, I would say to avoid or at least reduce that artificial blue light at night. And it could mean wearing blue light blocking glasses. Yeah. Could mean using your phone and using an app to gauge the Lux. Lux is a unit of light measurement, so there are certain Lux recommendations for one sleeping room.

And I don't think many people realize this. Like how important if you have a child ultimately, you know, you might be shortchanging yourself with sleep. You know, getting into a good practice with sleep and with light preconception. can get you into a better rhythm so that once conception occurs and baby is on its way, then you you kind of have this routine of where, you know, you know how to fall into a better sleep type of, rhythm. I love this so much. So much you. So when and aren't prime mastering mamas, we cover light pollution and light exposure in so much detail because it's so critical we the circadian rhythm and I love we have a concept called subtraction fertility.

When you think of becoming more fertile, it's like the the instinct is add all these things in. But a really good place to start sometimes is where can you subtract things and in some ways I mean, it's easier, I mean, it's easier, it's etc. so that's beautiful. But I also really want to underscore something you said because it's like brings us back to the beginning. You said we have a dark deficiency, iron deficiency. We were talking in the beginning about how we we've been raised to be so cut off from the feminine parts of ourselves.

And when I when I hear you say we have a dark deficiency, a yin deficiency, a rest reset deficiency, that to me is that same pattern playing out. And really what's required of us to get pregnancy pregnant, grow and raise our super babies is to embrace equally the feminine and masculine parts of ourselves we need. We need all parts of ourselves to be super mamas and have our super babies. So I just want to say thank you so much for that. And I have one more question before we wrap up. What does what does Super Fertility mean to you when you hear that phrase?

What what does it evoke for you? What do you feel? What do you see? I feel like there's an openness. There is alignment between our physical body, our emotional flow and expression, our mental well-being and our mood, as well as our spiritual health. I would say our sense of meaning and purpose. And I don't know how many people often think about spirituality as they have this journey through fertility. But when you say Super Fertility, I started thinking like, wow, we're hitting on all cylinders.

Physical. Emotional, mental, spiritual. Bing bing bing bing bing. And when we open up all of those centers, it's like there's a super channel, super high of being receptive and being that vessel, being the hollow bone of whatever needs to come through to be even more fully in alignment. We are now ready to receive. So when I think of super fertility, I'm thinking, wow, we are lighting up and, we're we're in that alignment. We have that state of awareness and consciousness that is going to be more receptive to possibilities.

Dr. Deanna, I had no idea. I was just about to meet a soul sister when I came on this call today. And we always say in the Primemester Protocol that what we're doing is priming ourselves to receive our super baby, and you just use that exact term, and nobody in the world thinks of it that way. And I just really have loved every second of this conversation and want to thank you so much for being here. Oh, it's been a delight. Absolutely. I, like you said, I feel like we're we're kindreds, right? We have. Yeah.

Similar connection into, that integration of the feminine and the masculine and how important that is for, for so many of us. That's right. Thank you so much for being here, mamas. Dadas, parents of all genders listening. I hope that this conversation was everything that you needed and more. And I'll see you back here for the next one. I can't wait to see you again.