Unlock The Gut-Immune Connection

Introduction and Speaker Background 0:00

Hello and welcome back to our reversing mast cell activation Syndrome and Histamine Intolerance Summit. I'm your host, Dr. Meg Mill. And today I'm joined by Dr. Tracy Trinchitella. who is a naturopathic physician and a representative of a bio botanical research. So I am so excited to have you with us today. Tracy. We're going to get into a lot of great things talking about histamine mask, the microbiome and more. Thank you so much for being with us today. Well, thanks for having me. Absolutely. So let's just start by really, I like to just introduce people before we get into all the juicy stuff.

And just talk a little bit about you and really your education training background that led you to the place that you're in today. Well, I'm a naturopathic doctor, as you said, and I graduated from Southwest College of Medicine back in 1998. so I've been in practice for 26 years. And I would say that, you know, this is an interesting topic. You know, the whole issue of, cast histamine issues, you know, chronic inflammatory response syndrome related to gut issues and bio toxins and all of that. Because I think from the time I graduated to now, illnesses have gotten more complex, and there is just a lot of things that people are up against out there in the world, both externally and internally, compounded by stress that can make their symptoms very difficult and fuzzy and hard to pin down to one particular thing.

And so as practitioners in this realm, we're always trying to get to the root cause of problems. And it it can be an issue, you know, when you're dealing with people that have a lot of diverse symptoms and you're trying to get to the cause. And as being a naturopath I look a lot at what's going on in the gut and where, we can make improvements there to improve a person's overall health. So when it comes to the topic of MCAS and his two main issues, you know, we really have to look at the gut and dysbiosis.

And, you know, I got into naturopathic medicine because I was interested in

What Mast Cells and Histamine Do 2:23

in really helping people to get, well, not managing symptoms with medications. You know, I think everybody in this summit would agree that this is why they're in this space, because you want to really help people to get well. and so it's just been a journey along the whole way of just trying to work on gut function and clearing obstacles. I feel that's a lot of what we're doing, is just supporting systems and clearing obstacles so that people can feel better. Yes, absolutely. I'm right there with you.

So we are definitely in alignment there. Well, I let's just start by getting into the basics and talk about what is histamine and what our mast cells and how they're related. In case someone hasn't heard that yet in some of our talks. Right. Well, so mast cells are part of our immune system. They're, type of white blood cell, and they're usually concentrated in connective tissues that are usually around blood vessels. the lymph system there on those mucosal surfaces, like in your lungs, your, your respiratory tract, your GI tract, you know, they tend to concentrate there and they release these, immune mediators, one of which we know a very commonly, which is histamine.

But it also releases things like prostaglandins and leukotrienes, other mediators of an immune response. And they stimulate or get the ball rolling on an immune response. And, it can be it's it's a productive response. You know, you want that to happen. If you encounter something that is considered an antigen or a pathogen, you want your immune system to go after it. But it goes awry when your immune system starts reacting to things that really aren't a threat. And I think that's what we're talking about today is this overreaction of your immune system to things that aren't really a threat to it.

And so, you know, when you encounter things on those mucosal surfaces, that is sort of the the space in which your body is interfacing with the outside world. And so we have to consider, you know, what's in our environment that we're reacting to. But we also have to look at what is going on internally. That might create a heightened reaction. and histamine is one of the more common mediators for that. You know, so we talk a lot about the enzymes associated with histamine. the, foods, high histamine foods that we try to work at eliminating to try and get of these low to come down.

So these are all just, mediators of the immune system, but they have gotten off track. They're overstimulated. They've never reset to baseline, and somebody will stay in a heightened, immune response state. and they can't seem to turn it off, and then they don't know what really triggers it. So it can be very frustrating. Yeah. It is so frustrating because you're acting to everything I know I, I still have family members say to me I thought you couldn't eat that. I thought you can't do that. You're like oh wait now I've, I've healed.

I can actually which is which is a wonderful thing. And that's what we're trying to get for everyone. Well, now, what would you say you see the most calm as some of the most common triggers

Common MCAS Triggers and Gut Dysbiosis 5:38

for that sit for mass activation syndrome in your practice? So as I was saying before, I feel like chronic illness has gotten very complex, like there's a lot of stuff out in our environment that can certainly be a trigger. And I know in this summit, you know, you've talked a lot about mold, so I'm not going to go deeply into that. But we know that that can be a trigger. Chronic infections, whether it's viral, whether it's Lyme disease, you know, a number of things where the body can't quite get, get rid of it.

So it's like this low level chronic stimulation of your immune system and then there are things within your own gut, like if you have poor digestion, you have dysbiosis or small intestine bacterial overgrowth, where you're just not you're not digesting your food very well. you're not you're not digesting food, but you're kind of fermenting food. And so you're creating this whole soup inside your gut that it makes the whole system worse, because you could be promoting the formation of histamines within your own gut.

And if you've got a lot of gut stuff going on, inflammation, dysbiosis, you may decrease your ability to actually produce the enzyme Dao to help break down those histamines that you're producing in your gut, but that you could also be consuming in your food. So working on gut function is is one of the internal processes that I think is always a great place to start when somebody has, a presentation of MCAS or histamine issues. You know, we always start with their gut because that is the place where they may be producing it or not clearing it very well.

Yes, I am in absolute agreement with that. So I that I totally think that that's like a huge factor when we're talking about both, MCAS and histamine intolerance. Can we get a little bit deeper into that? Because I'd love to explore a little bit more of that. So, you know, I the word dysbiosis is something that's common with us. And when we're talking about all the time. But could we kind of describe what dysbiosis means. Yeah. It is a, it is a word that is thrown around a lot. And you know, some people understand it and some people, you know, understand a little bit, but it's really just an imbalance of bacteria in the gut.

You know, we all have hundreds or thousands of different organisms within our gut, and some of them are considered keystone bacteria, the ones you really want to have because they're very supportive of your gut health, of digestion. They produce nutrients, they direct your immune system. But we have other organisms that are there that may not be good, may not be bad, but if they overgrow, they can be considered opportunistic pathogens. You know, if there's too much of them around. And so if you've just got too many of those bacteria, that is a state of dysbiosis.

And it just creates an imbalance because those opportunistic bacteria can end up crowding out the keystone bacteria, the ones that you want to have an abundance of that really contribute to help and balance your immune system. and decrease leaky gut help to support, the mucin layer in your gut, all of those good things that we want to happen that can be compromised if we get an overgrowth of those opportunistic bacteria, and a lot of that can come around through infections, you know, if you encounter an infection, if you have food poisoning or something that triggers this inflammatory response, that creates this, this state of imbalance that allows the gut to become dis biotic, it can be done through foods.

It can, come about through overuse of antibiotics. you know, I think all three of those things are common things that people would encounter. So dysbiosis is a state of bacterial imbalance in the gut. Simply said. And what I think is also fascinating when it comes to histamine. And MCAS how there's certain bacteria, some of these opportunistic bacteria that are actually histamine producing. And I think that that's a a hard concept for people sometimes to realize, okay, there are that actually certain bacteria that are overgrown can be producing more histamine in your body too.

And some of them are, you know, really actually can stimulate the mast cells. So it really looking at the specific bacteria can be so important. Right.

Histamine-Producing Bacteria and Probiotics 10:11

Well, and the testing has gotten to the point where we do stool testing. And you can look at some of the breakdown of some of the bacteria. There's very nuanced testing out there that will list all of the bacteria that it finds as sort of a mapping of your microbiome to see what's going on there. And and you're right, there are bacteria that are histamine producers. And if you have somebody that has an underlying histamine issue, you have to be careful about which probiotics you give them because some probiotics may be pro histamine.

And so choosing probiotics that have a decreased chance of promoting those histamine bacteria. so just overall I think digestive processes to, you know, so many people just don't digest well from the get go, which I think contributes to the imbalance of the bacteria in their gut. and, you know, low hydrochloric acid, for fat digests and low production of pancreatic enzymes, all of that occurs in the upper digestive tract. And if it's not going well, you're setting the stage for creating this dis biotic environment further down because you're not digesting your food very well.

So you're leaving it there to ferment. And that process often feeds the, imbalanced bacteria, the ones you don't want a lot of. Yes. No, I definitely agree. And that's something that, you know, I think even when we're talking about gut healing in the lens of histamine issues, it's different really. You need to like look at it in a new lens. Because even some of the things that we're looking at like fermented foods or bone broth or things, they can actually make things worse for people when you're having these issues and you're hearing from people all over, oh, you know, take bone broth for gut healing, you know, eat fermented foods.

And and you're hearing this things and they're good for, for that purpose. Except that you have to look at it through the lens of what you're actually dealing with too. Right? No, I agree, which is why it's important, I think, to understand a good symptom presentation of somebody who does have histamine issues. You know, some of the more common symptoms, you know, might be migraines, vascular issues where, you know, they have a poor control over blood pressure. They sort of present with that Pots presentation, the postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, where they tend to have lower blood pressure, where they stand up and they get dizzy and their heart starts to raise, skin issues, itchy skin, they don't necessarily have to have high production, but just tend to be itchy, like they're always itching certain parts of their body.

They just have this overload of histamine. So taking a good history from patients to get a sense of whether or not histamine is playing a role in their underlying symptoms, it. I always feel like these disorders that we have, I have a spectrum of presentation. They're not always going to come to you in this full blown M-class state. You know, it's sort of, you know, like a lot of disorders,

Biofilms and Biocidin for Microbial Overgrowth 13:18

they can have symptoms of it that can be contributing to their overall picture. So as practitioners, we just have to ask the right questions, from our patients to get a good history to say, okay, in the course of treating this patients, I want to make sure that I'm not going to make their symptoms worse. Do they have a histamine issue? Are they having migraines? Do they have neurovascular problems? Do they have kind of a vasomotor rhinitis? I mean, even a presentation of rosacea or something might indicate that there's a histamine issue there.

So really getting good history so that the recommendations that we make aren't going to make their symptoms worse. Yes, absolutely. And you know, when we're talking about I'm going to move back into the into the microbes a little bit. And so I know, you know, when we're there's nuances of really balancing the microbiome that we do. But one of the things, and that I know that, you know, really helps a lot of people is bio seitan is one of the, the antimicrobials that we use. And it's a but also a biofilm.

It breaks up the biofilm. So I think that's another thing. I just wanted to talk a little bit about what biofilms are and why that can be important too. Because some of these microbes actually have biofilms that cover them, that make them a little bit more resistant. Sure. And, you know, it's interesting when you think of biofilms, you know, we produce biofilms throughout our body. But one place where we can actually visualize biofilms in your mouth, you know, the plaque on your teeth is really a biofilm.

So that's kind of what it looks like. So if you can get a visual of what plaque looks like when you have your teeth cleaned, or if you're cleaning your teeth, it's kind of like this sticky substance that adheres to surfaces. So it allows the bacteria to collect and, stay adhered to something and it can help it to evade your immune system to some degree. So if you have, these bacteria collected in biofilm, it can be very difficult to get at them. So, you know, we can't just throw a bunch of antimicrobials without considering biofilm formation, you know, especially if you have somebody who seems to kind of respond, but then they hit a plateau and they're really not getting any better.

You have to go in and you have to break up some of those biofilms with very select botanicals. And Biocide is one of them. It's been around for a long time. And, it's very effective in, in a lot of G.I problems from the mouth all the way down. You know, they have great products like dental siding, which is great for biofilms in the mouth, you know. So when we think of our digestive tract, it goes up from the mouth all the way down. So the thing about when you see what's going on in your mouth, that's where you can visualize what's happening.

You can't see what's going on in your your small intestine. So your mouth is kind of a representation of what might be happening further down. So it's always good to kind of examine your oral health. And bio botanical has some good, oral health products and chewable, probiotics that are good for oral health as well. But when it comes to breaking down biofilms, we have to get at those in order for us to get rid of some of the bacteria that may be contributing to a state of dysbiosis and biocide, and has been a go to for me, for my partner, for so many people, because it's great to address dysbiosis, it's great to address Sibo, it is great to address fungal overgrowth. So, one of the things I really love about botanicals is they're multitaskers.

You know, they can be antibacterial. They can be antifungal, they can be anti-parasitic. So, you know, you can get one product that has a good combination of botanicals that can really hit a lot of things that might be contributing to some of these imbalances. Yes, yes, that is so important. Thank you so much. Now, if you have a person come to you and they suspect they have MCAS, where do you start with them? I'm probably

Testing and Treating Suspected MCAS 17:28

going to start with, doing a stool test. Really. I'm going to start with looking at what is going on in their gut because that is going to play into, how they are producing histamines. The issue of microbial overgrowth, dysbiosis contributes to, as we were talking about higher levels of histamine in general. And if there is microbial overgrowth or if there's any infections, I mean, I'm always looking for infections when I do a stool test because if there is an infection, I always feel like, get rid of the things that shouldn't be there, you know?

So you want to look for infections that could be a driving force in what's going on in their gut and try to get rid of that, because if there is a chronic infection going on in the gut, it's going to constantly stimulate the immune system. You're going to get more histamine production, because the immune system is trying to get at this infection. And it can also contribute to, breaking down of the mucin layer, contribute to leaky gut, which has an overall systemic effect where you tend to now that inflammation that might have been isolated to the gut becomes more systemic.

And people start to present with, systemic issues because they're getting antigen penetration from their gut into their bloodstream, and their immune system is reacting at a systemic level. And that's when it starts to become really bad. So if we can get at the gut and work at the gut and work on barrier function and reducing immune system activation in the gut, but the body has a chance to settle down and we can lower the histamine level overall through dietary means and, specific supplements that help to stabilize mast cells.

So there is a way of addressing it. But I think you have to patch the holes before you can actually get to it. Yes I do, yes, I totally agree that that is you know, I'm always talking about the gut is it's so foundational in here. So I, I'm on board with you and so can we move a little bit into I you mentioned leaky gut. Can we move a little bit into leaky gut and how that's affecting the immune dynamic. You know, you know, the thing about leaky gut is, I always, what I try to convey to patients, it's almost like your digestive tract is sort of on the outside of your body, even though it's on the inside, because it's interfacing with things that you're bringing into your body from the outside.

It's those mucosal surfaces that interface with the outside world. That's where you encounter foreign things, right. So the the the gut has this, very selective, permeability. So you have to through enzymatic activity and a good digestive process is break things down into their component parts, you know, proteins into amino acids, fats into fatty acids, carbohydrates into, you know, monosaccharides. So your body can absorb those things and they're not foreign to the body anymore. But if if you have leaky gut because of chronic inflammation, where those, those tight junctions start to separate

Leaky Gut and Immune Activation 20:38

and larger particles can get through and permeate into general circulation, you're going to get more of a stimulation of an immune response because you have larger proteins crossing over that. The body is now seeing as something that is foreign, that it has to go after. So, you know, preventing leaky gut, I think is really important. But it's not just something that you treat, because there's usually going to be an underlying cause for leaky gut. We don't go in and just throw a bunch of glutamine and, you know, it was slippery Elm and all of these things to help patch up the holes.

Why do we have the holes in the first place? So we have to get at the underlying reason for the inflammation, which could be infections, could be dysbiosis, could be fungal overgrowth, could be mold exposure. could be food allergies or food sensitivities could be gluten sensitivity. So you have to kind of rule out all of these things along the way and try and help somebody who's got to heal so that, you know, you don't have a screen door with holes in it. That's, you know, always the the analogy people use is sort of like having a screen door with holes in it.

Yes, yes. Well, these have all been such great points. Thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell everyone where they can find you and get more information? Sure. our website is mysunrisecenter.com

Where to Find Dr. Trinchitella 21:59

and my partner and I also have, some courses online through integrativemedicineacademy.com So we can be found at both of those locations. Well thank you. Thank you so much for being with us today. All right. Thank you very much. Have a great day