Your Scan Isn’t Why You’re Scared to Move

Most runners have a problem with uncertainty. They want to know if my mileage is at this level and I can run this long run at, this time, can I qualify for Boston?

The answer is I don't know. There's so much uncertainty in running. I Don't Know what the weather is going to be like. perfectly. And so what I try to do with runners is embrace the uncertainty because it also means that, you know, we may have a breakthrough race that you weren't even expecting.

The uncertainty can go both ways. I'm always reminding my athletes that we don't need A plus workouts. We don' need a plus execution of every single day, every singe element of ever training session.

i want you to be very comfortable being a B plus runner. If you're overwhelmed with chronic health symptoms and still don't have answers, you are not alone.

I'm Dr. Javan and on redefining wellness with Dr Javin, we'll be exploring root causes like Lyme disease, mold and parasites and I'll guide you with simple and practical steps towards real healing.

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Redefining Wellness Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Jay Behmore. And today I am talking to Jason Fitzgerald, who is a marathoner, a strength running coach.

He's got a website, podcast, he's a USA TF certified coach, but honestly, the thing that I was most interested about when I researching Jason was his perspective on injuries And how to really get to know your body and your mindset and how that can apply.

And for everybody listening to me, that's in health and wellness. I think this is a really important topic because one of the things that I noticed when I'm working with clients on a day-to-day basis is trying to understand when to push, when the pull back, what is it good feeling in the body?

And what does a feeling that we need to make sure, hey, something's going on here and we need to do a little bit more investigation. So Jason, thanks for joining me today.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. Jason what took you down the path of coaching athletes, but not just going and coaching runners, really the mindset and the strength training and that interconnection of the body, where did that come from?

Well, I think it came from the fact that I was a fairly injury-prone runner myself when I as a younger athlete. So after getting Achilles tendonopathy and plantar fasciitis, had SI joint problems, IT band syndrome, you name it, all kinds of other different running injuries.

It got to a point where I didn't think I was ever going to be able to run again. I had run my first marathon after I graduated college. It was the 2008 New York City Marathon.

And when I started running a little bit after the race, I came down with this pretty severe ITBS injury, IT band syndrome. and I did run for six months. I saw all kinds of different physical therapists. And I really thought that my running career was over.

And through a lot of trial and error, revamping how I approached running, I was able to get back into it. I ended up running a PR in the marathon a couple of years later.

And I felt like I just had something to share with the running community. Look, anyone can sort of prescribe a tempo run or build a workout out for a runner, but I think the wisdom to know, like you were saying, when to push and when pull back is really important.

Because I was an injury prone runner, I really learned when it was appropriate to push and when I wasn't. And a lot of different ways that you can put different injury prevention strategies directly into your training program.

So for a while I kind of considered myself the coach for injury-prone runners and that included you know, a different approach to the training process.

It was the addition of strength training and things like a dynamic warm-up and certain mobility work so that we can consider ourselves athletes who specialize in running, not just runners.

And that's a little bit of semantics, but I think it's important because it breaks the mold of runners just thinking that I run and that is all I do. I really want runners to be much more athletic than that, to strength train, cross train to go through all kinds of mobility exercises, different drills.

And if you can do that you're going to more be athletic, you are going have more coordination, better running economy and you will have a much lower injury risk.

My journey to being the coach who really pays attention to injury prevention, I would say, comes from a dark place of always being injured myself. My college roommate who has been one of my best friends in life, constant injuries, just never ending injuries.

He went in search of one doctor the next. Honestly, he helped to form who I've become because He found chiropractors and muscle testers and physical therapists and all these different devices.

And I got an opportunity to use them in college. I'm like, you know, I want to go do this to help people. And that really took me from that step to getting into almost like a physical sports performance practice, but then I ended up getting Lyme disease and that's why I'm sitting here today doing what I am doing.

But my mindset is so similar to that of an athlete when I work with clients that I worked with on a day-to-day basis. And from what you were talking about is like, well, from pain to purpose, right?

So from your injury that brought you here now and then not identifying necessarily with being that injured athlete, but figuring out ways to rebuild the body.

When I'm working with clients, they're tired and brain fogged and body pain and bathroom doesn't work. They have all of these major issues. And my perspective is, well, it's not just the fact that you're tired.

It's just not the that fact you have Lyme disease. What's going on with your nervous system? Are you moving? What are you doing for your mitochondria?

Looking at that bigger perspective so that individuals can actually find ways to get back on top. And with athletes, its the same thing. We just all think, well, they're just elite athlete.

They just, you know, don't have any problems. So as you coach people, how common for athletes, for professional athletes is it to always at all times have something?

You know, I will go back to one of the first things that my first coach ever told me. And this is after I could not finish a 2.9 mile run. I felt like I had been run over by a truck.

This is the time I ever went running in my entire life. and I asked him if I was always going to feel like this and he said, no, but you're always gonna feel something.

And I've always remembered that because no matter what level you are, if you're a professional, you know, a weekend warrior, anywhere in between, and you training for some kind of goal, You're always going to feel something.

Now, that doesn't mean you'll always be injured. That's a huge red flag. But injuries are a natural occurrence for any performance-oriented athlete. And performance oriented, I mean, it sounds like you a high-level college athlete, or a pro.

I mean, really, if you have any kind of time goal in a race, you want to qualify for the Boston Marathon, break four hours, whatever it might be, your performance oriented athlete, because you had a certain performance that you're training for.

And in that kind environment, You're going to get injured sooner or later. If you have a smart training plan and you're doing all the right things, quote unquote, then the injury should be relatively minor.

Those big season ending injuries are often quite preventable. But yeah, if you are constantly injured, that's a red flag. I would also say if you haven't been injured in years and years in, years, that also might be a red flag that you're maybe not pushing yourself to the level that, uh, you could be.

If you are that performance oriented athlete. Now, if your just exercising a couple days a week for general health. We probably shouldn't be injured at all.

We should always be able to modify our training so that we can do something that doesn't cause a repetitive stress injury like a running injury. But for the most part, you know, You're always going to feel a little bit of soreness, maybe a niggle pops up now and then that you have to reduce your training load or your trading volume because of.

But for the most part, you might feel some minor things, but injuries are going to be kind of rare, maybe once a year for average competitive runner. So what I'm hearing is perfection is a dream, not a reality, because if your body feels really good all the time, Well, first of all, it just doesn't happen, but you're probably also not pushing yourself to improve.

So, I mean, just I always tie this back to the people I'm working with because the mindset is, well, when do I know I am healed? When do know how I feel good?

when Do I that it's all over with? I m like, oh, you live in your body and your bod y all the time is changing. You're never 100%. It's always It's always at all times health is a journey, which drives people nuts.

There's not a true finish line. Just like training, just like running a marathon, right? Like, okay, you ran two hours and 39 minutes. Now can I run two hour and 38 minutes?

It is always looking for that next thing. And the mindset that comes with that of accepting the imperfections along the journey and the goal, How do you work with your runners on that part?

Because so many people, there's a study done where three to four years out from ACL surgery, 24% of athletes haven't gotten back to where they were before.

So they're citing a reason for that a lot of times is fear. How you do work your athletes to overcome the fear of imperfection, injury, feeling something that they don't like?

Yeah, that's the million dollar question, right? I think there has to be a certain level of acceptance when it comes to both imperfection and also uncertainty.

And one of the things that I have discovered after about 16 years of coaching runners is that most runners have a problem with uncertainty, they want to know If my mileage is at this level and I can run this long run at time, can I qualify for Boston?

The answer is I don't know. There's so much uncertainty in running. I do not know what the weather is going to be like. perfectly. And so what I try to do with runners is embrace the uncertainty because it also means that, you know, we may have a breakthrough race that you weren't even expecting and that happens sometimes too.

So the uncertainly can go both ways. I'm always reminding my athletes that We don't need A plus workouts. We do not need a plus execution of every single day, every element of each training session.

I want you to be very comfortable being a B plus runner. Because if you can just string together B Plus workouts, B-plus long runs for months at a time, that adds up.

And the cumulative effect of that, the compounding of B PLUS efforts over months and months, and even years and years, far surpasses the occasional, you know, knock it out of the park, A plus game changing workout that let's be honest, often results in an injury because you ran kind of over your, your ability level over, over skis a bit and you overextended yourself.

So, there's no perfect answer here, but I'm constantly engaging in this back and forth of that's okay. Don't worry about it. You know? I feel like a big part of it is the mentality of coach.

I try to be pretty easy going with No, it doesn't matter that, you know, this didn't go perfectly or that didn' go. Perfectly. Here's some things that we can improve, but you're never on the hook to be a perfect student of the sport.

No one is. There's too many imperfections in us as people. And I think it's impossible to truly be 100% consistent over time. So just giving ourselves some grace and understanding that if we do the best we being about a 85-90% most of the time, we're probably going to achieve our goals just fine.

I love hearing that from a professional coach because a lot of people that are sick, that they're not feeling well that I'm working with, They're like, I just need to get to a hundred percent.

I need just to consistency. Just need get where everything feels good. When am I going to reach that perfection? And that mindset honestly can hold you back.

And it sounds like even for professional athletes that mind set can't hold them back and having that grace as you said of your body's in flux all the time.

and just being a B plus, and I know from my training experience and like to hear your answer to this but The athletes that can stay healthy, that could stay in the game are the ones that oftentimes are ones you see on the big stages because catastrophic injury oftentimes ends the opportunity.

So it's about finding that I can push myself this hard and keep on going or I can push myself that hard and I break and then I'm out of the race. So is it more important to be consistent or to Good question.

I would have to put all my chips down in favor of being consistent. Because I think intensity is like playing with fire. It can certainly be wielded productively.

You can use it to make tools, you can keep yourself warm, but if you let it get out of control, we're going to have lots of problems. Intensity is one of the things that, you know, it will peak you too early.

So you'll get into peak shape weeks before your goal race, and then you feel burned out and flat and you won't be able to perform. Too much intensity can also just get you injured really easily.

The risk of faster running becomes exponential the faster you go. So doing a hard VO2 max workout is substantially more risky from an injury perspective than just going for an easy run.

Now that. The O2 max workout is actually going to increase your fitness substantially more than that easy run. So you still need it. We just need to be very careful how we wield that intensity.

But at the end of the day, consistency beats everything. Because if you're not consistent, then running doesn't compound on itself. And you know, whether we're talking about You know, that 62 year old runner who wants to finally run Boston or, or anyone else, we've got to have some level of progressive overload in our training if we want to get better.

And, you know that does mean gradually doing more and more over time. If you're not consistent, there's no way you can adhere to this principle of progressive overload.

And if you are constantly getting injured, because you trying to do these big workouts, you try to really index on intensity, then you also not going to be able to that consistent over time and accomplish that progressive over load.

So yeah, my vote goes to consistency over the time. Pretty much every other coach that I talk to would probably say that too. Such a fun conversation for me because if I translate hard run to hard detox or hard health practice or some sort of even nervous system work too fast, people oftentimes have side effects.

They fall backwards, they don't succeed. And it's like we're doing the same thing just with different desired outcomes. You want to have your guys run faster or your teams run fast.

I want people to be able to get out of bed and live the life they want Exercise is hermetic stress. It's this beautiful thing that if you push yourself, you see gains from it.

You get faster, or you get stronger. Or you like the changes in your body, but too much of that intensity can break you. So there were some studies done that they found like 33% was kind of a cutoff mark of like how intense a person could go into that hermitic stress before it actually starts becoming damaging.

and more of that long-term push, which is for you the difference in tempo versus that VO2 test or VO to run. But how do you tease out for your runners how to know what is okay in their body?

Like how did they communicate, listen to, feel out their bodies where they're like, well, this pain is OK versus, that pain I should take the day off.

Yeah, good question. I've talked to a lot of physical therapists about this and I have come up with sort of a three-pronged test for when to know it's okay to run through something and when you should probably either stop running or maybe find an alternative form of training like getting on the bike or getting in the pool or doing a strength training session.

So let's say you start out on a run and you have a little bit of discomfort in your foot. If that discomfort is a dull pain, it's a little bit more achy, It's not sharp or stabbing, that's that a bit of a green flag.

The sharp stabing pain is the red flag that we want to look out for because it likely indicates that you might be doing some additional damage to your tissues by continuing on that run.

So, okay, it's dull and achy. There's green flag number one. Green flag, number two would be if you were able to run with that dull, aching pain and the pain either got progressively better as you warmed up and as he kept running, or if it just didn't get any worse and it was, you know, very relatively low manageable pain.

So that's Green Flag number 2. Green flag number three is if you don't have to alter your running form to accommodate for the discomfort. So if your out there, let's say the opposite is true for all these things.

It's a sharp stabbing pain, it gets progressively worse as you run. You have change how you're running to accomodate that pain. These are all huge red flags that probably indicate you should not be running right now.

But if the opposite is true, I would say proceed with caution. Maybe go a little bit slower than your normal running pace. Don't do a big workout or a long run.

Let's just keep it to an easy run, but that usually tells me that you're capable of continuing on with the run with some reductions in volume and intensity perhaps.

There's also a lot of great plan B, plan C, and plan Ds that we can have as well. I always like to tell my athletes too, you know, there's our goal training session for today, And then, we could modify it.

We can make it easier, We could make shorter, or we even do it on the bike if you're incapable of running entirely. So there are always a couple backup plans.

If you are running a little short on time, You can go with plan b. If you're starting to feel some niggle or pain, maybe plan C is more appropriate. So understanding that we don't have to exactly follow the training plan itself 100%. And this gets back to our prior point of not being a slave to perfection, right?

Like it's okay to go a little bit off script to do things a bit differently. And that's a really valuable way of prioritizing consistency and staying in the game and not kind of committing yourself to this big workout, even though your body isn't ready for it.

And you might have to, you know, then take even more time off because that little niggle maybe got even worse. So as a former athlete, I won't even call myself an athlete anymore.

I loved collegiate track and field. That was my thing. Um, and I'll really talk about all of that. And I feel old now, right? 20 years ago almost, my goodness, some 40 now.

One of the hardest things is. Athletes aren't always aware. They're running, they're trained to push through pain, and they are trained just to keep going.

Society tells us all the time, no one is going to wait for you, to stop. How do you handle the athletes that are like, I hear what you're saying, but I can't really tell you whether I should stop or not start.

Is there a coaching path that you take people through to break that? disconnection between their senses, their mind and their body because I mean, I can remember so many athletes that were just like, Oh, no, my hamstring just popped.

Yeah, that's a tough question because there's certain personality types that I think lend themselves to being a type A runner and trying to run through walls and run though any kind of discomfort or pain that you might be experiencing.

And so it is difficult to coach those kinds of people because you give them a pace range for a workout and they go beyond it. Or they have a certain intensity zone for their easy efforts or their cross-training and then go be beyond that as well.

So a big part of this is frequent and consistent education on why we're doing what we are doing. This run is slow for a very specific purpose. We are targeting this energy system.

we need you building volume but in a sustainable way because we have a really intense workout coming up in one to two days. So for me, it mostly comes down to education.

It mostly it comes to really talking through the goals that a runner has and the steps that we're going to take to accomplish those goals. And I even try to dissuade runners from the entire mentality of We're going to run through pain or training for suffering and things like that.

For the most part, running is fairly easy. It's only the hard workouts that should be periodized at the end of the day. So you're not even running a hard workout every single week.

Most running as easy running. most workouts are far under a maximum effort. so most runners should not be experiencing too much pain and suffering on a weekly basis.

Yeah, getting up at five in the morning to go do your run when it's cold and dark is not fun, but that's not running through pain. Doing a long run of two and a half hours might be boring.

You might, be fatigued. you might really want to crack open that beer when you get home, But that still not pain and suffering. So we sort of have to.

you know, tease out the actual pain and suffering, where are we experiencing pain? Well, maybe in a VO2 max workout or any workout that's faster than a vo2 Max intensity, and certainly in race where you're running at a maximum intensity.

And so in those very specific controlled environments, do we want to be suffering and experiencing race related pain. not muscle pain because you tore something or something like that.

So I really try to differentiate between a little bit of suffering versus actual pain versus, you know, discomfort. I'm just thinking through what you were saying of the A type runner that's always trying to push through and differentiating out because the type is the same person that I work with that wants to add one more therapy, one red light.

They want to do another supplement protocol and it's all about kind of pushing to more and more because more is better. And from my perspective, I'm often telling them you have an energy system.

You have a digestive track. There is only so much that that digestive tract can absorb. There's only some of the energy you can put out. And although all of these things that you want to do are good, they're not necessarily good for you together.

So what I think I heard you just saying is even for professional runners, They're not hitting max effort. They are not maxing themselves out because if they do, they're going to injure themselves over time.

That sub-threshold consistency is the majority of what the training is, although there are definitely times where you hit maximum. It's pretty rare. And And that's what creates the most effective or the highest outcome for a runner is a targeted sub-threshold most of the time, consistent training program.

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, if you think about the training needs of distance runners, you can think of it as a pyramid and the base of that pyramid is going to be low intensity, easy running.

And the tip of the pyramid, is gonna be sprinting. And as you go down the pyramid from the top to the bottom, the pacing gets slower and slower. So yeah, most distance running training is relatively easy.

A lot of workouts are even aerobic. You're not even going beyond that lactate threshold into the anaerobic territory. Yeah, it is very unsustainable to be doing max efforts all the time.

It'd be sort of like anyone with a weightlifting background You don't go and do a one rep max every single day. That is not how you get stronger. It's probably going to leave you injured.

And it's also just not like a fun way to train. Like you're not going be in the gym having a good time if all you are doing is killing yourself with one-rep max attempts.

Completely agree. That was more my wheelhouse back in the day. All the low rep work, which was anywhere between, I don't know, one and 12 reps give or take for a thrower.

We were typically more in three to six reps with cleans and snatches and jerks and back squats. And I lifted some really heavy things that I look back on going, that wasn't very smart.

But another aspect of this is like we've talked about ideal training, ideal kind of periodization of workouts. What happens to an athlete when they are injured and how do you help them work through that loss of identity, that fear, and that anxiety, how do you help them to get back on track with doing all the training and exercises that you want to give them?

Because at some point, there's just a despair, especially when it's lasted a while. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think the first part is psychological, like let's embrace the uncertainty of this moment because in two days you could be back to training normally and this was just a 24, 48 hour blip and we could back regularly scheduled programming very soon.

So I try to keep my athletes optimistic. Let's be optimistic, let's think positive. We have no idea if this is going to be as serious as you think it might be.

And it's very easy just to go to those dark places of, there goes my season, I'm going be out of commission for months. You know, we don't know that. So let us not settle on that just yet.

And then I like to see a runner pour their enthusiasm, their energy, the drive to train into their treatment. So you might get really up for a workout and you're super consistent with mileage and never miss a long run.

All right, let's do that with your physical therapy now. And let get after some cross training. Just because you are injured doesn't necessarily mean that the training has to stop.

You could miss an entire week of training of running rather and you're still, you may even get in more hours of exercise because of the PT and the cross trading.

I have been in this situation myself where I had to take eight days off from running because a foot injury and then my first race back, I ran a personal best.

And that's because I was really diligent about cross training so I could maintain my fitness during that week break. Any runner can do that as well with cycling, with the elliptical, pool running or aqua jogging.

You can basically take any running workout and do it as a cross-training modality and, and. Do a fairly great job of maintaining your fitness. Hopefully this athlete is also seeing a physical therapist so they can get some corrective exercises, really try to understand, you know, why they got hurt so that either can address the training related issues that led to the injury or maybe it was you know, maybe it wasn't a load issue.

It was literally, oh, I barely slept last week, but I didn't modify my training because I had exams or because i had a really stressful week at work with a presentation and I was fighting with my spouse.

So I have three nights in a row of terrible sleep. And then I've had big workout in the long run. something has to give in that context, right? So I think some reflection is really important.

So if the athlete is being really diligent with their physical therapy, their training just as hard with cross training as they would with running, and they're sort of going back and playing detective with past training logs and thinking about Was this a lifestyle issue?

Was just a training load error? was this maybe me forgetting to do the bunch of things my coach prescribed me to, do that I didn't do, that maybe led me, to feel a certain way is just trying to figure out, you know, in hindsight, looking back, what may have contributed to this injury.

that usually gives the athlete enough to focus on that they're not spiraling into negativity with their injury. And like a lot of things, I feel like if you can just stay busy, you probably won't doom and gloom so much about the injury itself.

A big part of this too is I firmly believe that distance runners need their daily dose of exercise to stay a little bit sane. It's a good solid you know, a dose of sanity for us on a daily basis.

And so when that gets taken away from us, we don't know what to do. We get antsy. we start feeling a little untethered. Getting that cross training in, I think, restores that sense of purpose.

It at least creates a very similar hormonal response that I thinks is very soothing for a lot of runners. You know we get a bit of adrenaline. you know, those great, that runner's high afterward, we get all the positive benefits of exercise.

And that helps keep us, you now, quote unquote, sane during our little injury so that we can come back stronger when we're able to run. Well, the mindset that you've taken with running, it's definitely the more full spectrum.

I think this is where running and sport and health, honestly, all are going, which is more holistic approach. You know that word's been around for a long time, wellness, holistic.

Longevity now, anti-aging, like this group of words that people are using, but it's taking that perspective of the mind and the body together. I'm sure that you spend quite a bit of time, which we haven't really talked today about, with nutrition.

You're getting them in cross-training with weightlifting. And I listened to some of your posts that had out there on Instagram just talking about You know, sometimes you split intensity from running to, I'll put it into cross training for more of a cardiovascular workout, but it doesn't beat the same joints up that maybe you put 90 miles on already.

So I just love the holistic perspective that you have. And as I'm listening to you talk, like, my goodness, this is This could be the analogy I use to talk to people about their health in so many different ways because you're approaching this like I approach health for runners, which is going to allow them more longevity, more complete total output from their physiology.

You know, one thing I maybe can add here is when we talk, we talked a little bit about progressive overload, and we've talked about how to stay consistent with training and not shoot for those huge hero workouts, those A plus workouts.

I try to get my runners to be excited about progress, even if it's small. So I'm very oriented towards directionality. Are we moving in the right direction?

Even if we're taking very small steps in that direction, that I think that's fantastic. We're going to the right destination. It's where we want to go and we are in the process of getting there.

And sometimes our progress is going be fast. Sometimes it's goingto be slow. As a coach, I don't really care. I kind of just want us to be moving in that right direction.

and I remember when I first started running as a new runner, i kindof got hooked on the sport because As a new runner, your race times start to fall fairly consistently because the whole blank slate phenomenon and all that.

But I got obsessed with running because every race I ran was a New PR. And so I was just moving in the right direction over and over again. I think if you can build those little victories within your training, maybe you're setting Training PRs, before race PRS, you're running a little bit more than ever.

You're being more consistent than never. you are adding new things into the training. Maybe you starting a dynamic warm up. Now I'm going to start lifting weights.

That can keep you excited because you feel like you experiencing progress. And I don't think there's any more motivating feeling than simply experiencing progress.

And, I feel like there is such a great parallel here with general health. You know, you're losing a little bit of weight from month to month. Your gradually improving your diet, your gradually doing a bit more exercise over time.

When you can do that, You can feel really good about the direction that you are headed. Yeah. So just giving someone the little wins that keeps them coming back for more, keeps the motivated, keep the mind game of sometimes the grind at bay.

I can say personally, sometimes I'm not as good at that with health. The, I am looking for the wins, but sometimes it is a long, difficult road. And sometimes we've got to learn to celebrate those little and even make those little wins more available for people that are in this long, long grind.

I mean, for, like you said, you got addicted to running when you were making gains really quickly. And then when have you now been running for years and years, and taking a second or two off of a marathon at two and a half hours doesn't seem like it should be that hard, right?

Like there's a lot of time there, but taking the second, or to off could mean a year of training. So I actually spent three years in college working my butt off so that I could take seven seconds off of my 5K personal best.

So yeah, when you get to a certain time, it's a lot of work for very little gain. Yeah, that just makes me think about how to, and this has been a conversation for every business, every provider, everything.

How do you gamify to give that excitement factor, or that fun factor to whatever it is that we're doing? How you gameify it? Running is the game and it sounds like you've even gamified a little bit of the other pieces, the training.

And then I'm just thinking for myself when I work with these people that are in really difficult situations, how do we gamify the win to keep the motivation and keep mindset right?

Because that's what, when the mindset's right, you will become successful. Yeah, 100%. And the way I think about it too is You know, you mentioned I have a holistic kind of perspective on training.

I'm always trying to think about as much as I can to hype up my athletes, right? So I want to tell them like, hey, this is your highest mileage week ever, or you just ran those 30 second hill reps faster than you ever have before.

And here's why, even though you're training for a marathon, working on kind that short distance output, that power output is really important. And you know, you haven't been injured in 18 months.

We finally got your fueling right. Like I'm thinking about every angle to build up the confidence of my athletes because I want them to really appreciate how far they've come.

all the things that they have optimized in their training over time, and how they've basically transformed into an entirely new runner that's now capable of running faster than they were previously.

And I think that it's a very exciting place to be as an athlete, but as a coach, I love living vicariously through my athletes. I get just as excited, maybe even more so than I do sometimes, because I'm like, look at all of the thing that we've improved with your training, how exciting is that?

Yeah. Well, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I think it's a valuable view on how you work with runners. And I know you have a website that you direct your runners to to work.

What is that website? It's just strengthrunning.com. So for anybody out there listening, I don't run into a lot of coaches that take a full perspective on running.

The mindset, the physiology, it's more than just running and eating. So I really appreciate what you're doing, how you are looking at this. I know a number of athletes that I've worked with throughout my life that had consistent injuries and their coaches were just like, well, you know, like maybe running's just not for you.

I mean, that's what my college roommate got. Like, ah, your just the broken kid. And he left and he went to a different coach and like I said, he's part of the reason why I'm doing what I am doing.

He found people that could give him a reason and an answer and ended up becoming an All-American in college. he became a collegiate track and field coach.

and was able to find a lot of success by understanding his body, listening to his, body and in placing in the proper stresses and rests when they were needed.

So if you're listening right now and you like running, give Jason a look, go check out his website. We'll put it in The Show Notes so that you can check that out because I think finding somebody that has a bigger understanding is going to make not only you a better runner, but also to have the opportunity to stay healthy and enjoy it because being injured takes all the fun out of things.

Couldn't say it better than myself. Why do this sport if you're going to be injured all of the time? Then you are not having any fun. Yeah. Yep. Well, Jason, I really appreciate the conversation and thank you so much.

Thank you, I appreciate it.