I really feel that other veterans should look into the ketamine assisted therapy in one way or another, whether just talking through it with someone that has experienced it, or being open to conversations with the facilitation of how the process works.

If you are open to it, I would definitely say take the first step. It is life changing. And the way I seen ketamine therapy was slicing it right through the middle and opening up everything that was that could be.

And really having to go through that experience to feel it at once and discover these. You know, I get emotional now, right? Thank you. Discovering these things that you you didn't know, that was painful.

And working through that pain. And a lot of it was painful. Society doesn't tell men to show, but to emotions, whether it's angry anger in one way or another, or being happy.

And there's so much to us as humans that being comfortable in this space and actually going through the different levels of emotion heals in different ways.

And I think ketamine, the first stage of that, was accepting that journey and understanding that there will be areas that's undiscovered to you. But being open to that healing.

Welcome to the two queries and the podcast. I'm Doctor Ali Ahmed and I have just a real fun. With the wisdom from Holistic alternative and these conventional medicine.

We are here to challenge the status quo. We're curious about the connectivity and complexity between diverse fields of knowledge as it relates to consciousness, chronic illness and health resilience.

And we're learning more about the art and science of healing or listening to stories of extraordinary healing. You're in the right place. Let's dive in.

Welcome to the Two Koreas podcast, where we ask the unasked questions because we believe curiosity fuels discovery. Discovery fuels creativity. And here we are at the intersections of all the sciences of integrative medicine, psychedelic medicine, and narrative and story in the arts.

So welcome panel. We are so excited to have you. As a veteran who is been doing ketamine assisted therapy at Trauma Healing Center and just a little bit about Pernell Pernell, in addition to being, a patient who has really taught us through his healing journey what he was able to discover in his treatment.

Pernell is also an author and entrepreneur and also a mental health advocate. And his life. Now, from what I can tell on Instagram and social media and and his LinkedIn and even even what I can see him in practice doing is really transforming, building that self-realization.

And breaking the limiting cycles that we can live in through the work that he does in his community. And through his book, as well as his, his belief in his practice of what the work that he's doing now in his businesses.

So welcome, to Sandy. Thank you so much, both for having me on. I love the opportunity and the chance to kind of speak my story a little bit and kind of go through my journey as an individual, as part of this collective, and seeing what I really discover throughout the phases of the therapy and also what really came about it, as I still go through some of it today.

But most of the healing, I think has taken place over the course of the last year and a half. So in your book, Breaking the Cycle, where you talk about cycles, patterns, both that help, they help us and hinder our growth.

When you first started ketamine treatment. What is it that you believe brought you in through the doors towards your healing? What brought me to the doors for ketamine therapy is I've I've been in the mental health, I guess, mental health, treatment facilities for about 20 years.

Post my departure from the Marine Corps. And a lot of that has just been the hit and miss medication. After medication. Different therapist after a different therapist.

And it seemed like that in itself was a cycle. A cycle that wasn't breaking a cycle that we had to do something different about. And when I heard about the VA approving ketamine therapy along with some other psychedelic type therapies, I figured what would be the easiest impact on my current life and situation that I can take advantage of and see if I can put in for it.

Now, I took a while to the VA, but they did happen to find a great provider in Sacramento called Charmaine Tumor Center, if you're listening. So, but let's go for it.

Let's let's try something different. At the time, I there was a lot of unfinished business in my life and unfinished business as business as well. I was starting a new business at the time.

Lots of things going on. I had just lost my father. I would say a year ago that I was still not grieved over, I think, to the fullest. That's what really brought me to the door, is to try just something new.

After gone through so many different types of, you know, the the medical, in the books, in the box style treatment and from there just, you know, it obviously escalated very fast.

And what would those cycles, that you mentioned that you were, that were patterned or that you were looking to break or understand, what would you say those cycles were for you?

Now, looking back to this? Yeah, I would I would say there was a few cycles, right. The cycles of the routine of getting through the day just to get through the day, understanding that, you know, there was so many things that you're pushing up against the wall and not making any strides.

And so the cycles in itself repeated itself. And getting into that rut, I would say breaking away from it is only trying to understand what else is available and giving those things an opportunity.

This treatment itself was that opportunity for me and it and within itself, I think, is what really broke open the doors to have me finally get this book out.

It was only after the treatments started is when I actually finished breaking the cycle, and I'm reading on, on Amazon here that you donate all the proceeds from the sale of this book to support you and, to prevent school shootings and ensure the safety of every child.

Absolutely. That's been a passion of mine, is school safety. I got to think, in my professional line of work, I work in security and safety and seeing and in this case, it came about as another story.

Well, you're talking about cycles, and I think we should think about cycles as like ever expanding nested patterns within patterns. It is, school shootings are a pattern.

So I love that you connected the personal to the collective in such a beautifully elegant way. So I'd love to hear that story. So one of the Marine Corps, we've always had technology to keep people safe.

And I think understanding that if we just look at the progression of technology, a lot of it is given to the Department of Defense. And then over a course of time, I would say about a decade or so, it goes into the hands of the fortune 500 companies.

And then it's, you know, it comes all the way down to commercial use. And while during Covid, I would say I experienced I received a phone call and, two of my, my security guards had, succumbed to the illness.

And it got me thinking that we don't leave Marines behind. We don't leave soldiers behind. And this cycle started again for me, that heartache that we have the technology to do something about it.

But yet we're not putting that out into use. And at this time, some of it was still a little bit expensive. And so I left that industry a couple of years later to bring all these tools together and create space security services.

And what spade does is that we are not in itself one subject matter expert. We bring the experts from all different fields under the under the umbrella of protection, and bring those tools to the end user.

And throughout it, I discovered so many different things that we can do to help prevent school shootings. If we can't prevent our child from coming home safe, what is it that we're doing?

Right, right. Which is which goes back to trauma. Right. And the effect that trauma has on the body. And and not recognizing that the effective trauma or the trauma response effect develops into a pattern of behavior, develops into a pattern of identity.

And just back to your experience about with through ketamine, where you finish this book to help understand how you're what you're working on. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about what that how that evolved for you, like what you were working on.

Because patients do have sometimes a better understanding subconsciously of what they need. But making it again conscious becomes again. This takes time to get to that place where you see it.

But what were you able to see, imagine, or breakthrough or not in your treatment? I think there is multiple layers of it. It's like therapy usually is described.

And peeling back the onion and the way I seen ketamine therapy was slicing it right through the middle and opening up everything that was that could be.

And really having to go through that experience, feel it at once and discover these. You know, I get emotional now, right? Thank you. Discovering these things that you you didn't know that was painful.

And working through that pain. And a lot of it was painful. Society doesn't tell men to show but two emotions, whether it's angry anger in one way or another, or being happy and there's so much to us as humans that being comfortable in this space and actually going through the different levels of emotion heals in different ways.

And I think ketamine, the first stage of that, was accepting that journey and understanding that there will be areas that's undiscovered to you, but being open to that healing.

So a part of it was just that. And after that piece of the onion, there was the next piece, which was discovery. And I would say your motivation and purpose in life, and were you in the right direction, because there were some pathways that were opened up for me, and there was some pathways that I wouldn't say closed, but I would say I leaned against that I shouldn't have.

And it made it more clear to me that this wasn't the avenue I needed to take. You know, another step in a different direction. Sometimes as entrepreneurs, in the very beginning, you feel like I'm just trying to catch a break.

I'm trying to catch something that's going to work, but not concentrating on what your true purpose is. You know, I felt like that that was what I was going through in the very beginning stages, but then focusing down into figuring out, hey, what is really my passion.

And it's it's in the community. If I have to try to do what I can, as much as I can to keep my community safe. We love to see people walking around at 9 a.m., but also at 9 p.m.

at 1 a.m., and people shouldn't be afraid to do that. So is our community safe for us to take advantage of? And so those were the talks that I had with the local officials, and I started to get more involved.

And my involvement then kind of grew from being, you know, just coming to meetings and now, you know, being a becoming the arts commissioner for Rockland.

I'm also sitting on a couple of other boards in Rockland, which, you know, again, wasn't what direction I intended it to be. But it evolved into. So I would say, you know, your purpose could be discovered or rediscovered through the therapy.

And it starts with healing. It does start with discovering what is it that was undiscovered. As you go through the process, you know, the analogy of just cutting the onion open and letting it all fall out and noticing how it falls out to and what opens, you know, but then also the patterns that break, right?

Because the onion has a pattern that needs to be displayed as well. And you can look at it as you described. And I love that you kind of have this visual representation of something that can be very hard for some people, truly.

I mean, it's not I mean, if anybody said cut it open, are they ready for that? Is this something that you can work through with the tools that you have right now, or do you need to get the tools first and then start to consider this process?

And I imagine that must have been and it can be painful process was, at least from what I'm seeing in patients. But for you, what was that process of that discovery?

And to the bigger picture that you talk about, which is so valuable, right. Because the bigger picture of what kind of existence do I want to be in, you know, that what you're describing also is this protection and safety is such a vital part of your belief system that we should be safe.

All of us should be safe from children to adults and to places where there's a risk. But that sense of safety is a passion of yours. I'm just curious about how did that evolve for you, this concept.

Oh, is this something you already knew? Yeah, well, it's the one medium that I know very well is is security and safety. And I've dedicated a lot of my time to it and understanding it.

But there's also lots of resistance. I think resistance within yourself and also resistance from the community for what the possibilities could be. And is there some levels of privacy intrusion or not?

So I, I think battling through the second stage of that is the fear factor is when we when we haven't approached a situation or any of it, there's always that fear factor.

It's like going up a roller coaster and as it's going up, you're you're definitely having that anxiety and that fear factor. But you can hold on as hard as you can as it's falling, or you can let go and enjoy the ride.

And I, at one point or another in the therapy, decided to let go. It's beautiful. And, I want to follow that up with you're talking about safety, you know, safety in the community and also the sense of safety that you felt in this healing container.

So you talk about as you were going through the treatment, can you talk a little bit about what are the components of that safety? You know, what was the process like of recognizing what you needed to feel safe as you went through?

What were the aspects that you could rely on to say, okay, it is okay to let go and you can let go and you're going to be safe. A lot of it has to do with relationships and building a place where you feel that safe vibe.

We talk about frequencies and vibrations and how that spiritual concept plays, and Doctor Mott and her team have just been absolutely fabulous about creating that safe zone and space and naming these spaces and going through the entire process with you as a veteran, you go, I, I just skip this.

Let's just go to let's just go to the therapy. Right? That's what you think. But it's very valuable to know that there's someone there to, you know, give you that deeper understanding that you may not really realize until you start that process.

It's like, you know, we can talk about all these therapies until you experience them. Just like that roller coaster example. But finding the someone who you can talk to during this session and being open with that person unconditionally, knowing that that person is there to help and assist and guide you through your journey and not being not being judgmental towards what you're saying and not being judgmental towards you as a human being.

Because we all have shadows in one way or the other. So whatever work that you're trying to get out of it is based on, you know, being resistant to the space one and being resistant to how much of it are you actually accepting that this is going to help me?

So and I think for me, it was early on where I started the process, and it didn't take much more than maybe a month until when it was so comfortable and I was at ease with where we were to really start that letting go process.

Yeah, it takes time. I think that's one of the lessons to take from what you just described is it's not a one and done, and the first session is just a getting to know you.

You know, in the psychedelic world, we talk about the handshake dose where you and the medicine get to know each other, you know. Right. And I think that's one of the pitfalls of when we put so much expectation and hope into ketamine therapy is we're so anxious that first time, you know, we're going to is it going to work for me.

Yeah. You know, that's one of the doubts that come up because we feel so damaged that nothing has worked so far that maybe even this, you know, thing that's worked for so many other people won't work for me.

It really plays, you know, that negative voice, that resistance comes up and it takes a little while to let that voice come up and look around and say, okay, you don't need me yet.

All right. I'm going to go back, you know, and then come out a few more times over the course of a month and be like, hey, wait a minute. I think I see some changes and it does take that bit of time to notice for yourself.

Right? It's not overnight because there's, you know, we know things that'll make you feel good for ten minutes. Two days, ten days. Right. We go on a vacation. I feel great for a month. After that.

I have a cup of coffee. My day is great. You know, I take a Tylenol, I go four hours quick, pain free, but we're looking for something sustainable. We're looking for true transformation. So what were those things that you noticed, you know, how did you notice them?

What came to you, where you were like, I can trust this. Like that deep sense of can trust this. It's okay. I believe it was a combination of a few things that were going on.

It was when I was more into meditation at the time. And I say at the time, because it's come and gone in different phases of my spiritual journey as well, I looked at ketamine, obviously being a part of that journey as I went through it, and then documenting writing has just been has become more of a passion and so taking time for yourself to understand a little bit more rather than going back into the routine.

And so breaking a lot of these cycles that you were going through, but not forcefully, just allowing it, allowing what was the next part of the wave and accepting that part, I think was what really started to show over time, because you could have been crashing against the same way over and over again, but not realizing that you can really just float right above it.

And even though you may experience some of the downfalls in your life, but you're not going to feel that type of emotional value towards that downfall as much as you would have.

Because of the transformation that is taking place. And so where there was someone cutting you off on the freeway may just be like, that's okay, a person's probably running late.

While previous emotions to that were, I'm going to get you right, you know, why would you do that to me? And coming up against a red light over and over again like I'm running late and these initial emotions that were there started to dissipate, started to change itself into something else was when I was able to recognize that there is something going on that's bigger and greater than I have an understanding of, but everything that I'm doing is towards a progress that I am willing to accept, and I started to feel love for me again.

So who is Pernell Shankar now? Who is he? What? If you like, tell us all about him. And what was he like before her nail? Shankar was, pretty closed off individual for years, I'd say.

He kind of curled up into a corner and believed the world was against him. And there was so many things that he wanted to do that were great. But he couldn't get things done.

And all he had was his little inner circle of his family and some friends and, and that while he tried to keep breaking out of his cycles in life, there was always resistance and change and fear, and there was always that, hey, what if this or what if that?

And those variables are continued to become more and more predominant, rather than taking action? And I think Pernell became a in one way or another, is that person really doesn't exist any other.

It's just going with the tides and the ocean waves. It's just been a part of who I've become over the last course of a year and a half, and it's opened up so much more for me.

And just being accepting of how life is, and you can't change the people around you, which is one of the greater takeaways I think I have had, is you can change yourself because that's who you have control over, and those other things will fall into place where they should.

And accepting that right. If you love somebody, you love them or you doubt, right. And if you feel that there should be an expectation between the two of you, then there's some conditional love.

And I believe at this point, I don't have that style of relationship anymore. Some people are here in your life for five minutes, and some people are here for a couple of years, and they're on their journey.

And you get to see sometimes these emotions that they have, you can suggest will do ABCd and you'll feel much better. And I'm not the therapist any longer, and I don't give those suggestions because I feel like we all have our journey and they have to go through these experiences in order for them to break through them.

And so I think Pernell now, today looks at his journey as outward facing of what impacts are driven by his purpose in life. Wouldn't it be nice if he raised our children instead of saying, what kind of career do you want to be?

Do you wanna be a doctor engineer and tell him, yeah, hey, what is what kind of person do you want to be? What do you want to do for the world? You know, just let that question be as it is.

What do you want to do for the world? And that would be a career. My career is protection, safety. I don't know what would be your career. What would you name this career that you have for me?

I think my career currently right now is as a whole. Yeah. You know, I can be identified in the professional world as the person around safety and security.

But I feel that, you know, this medium is only here for a little bit as it changes, as the world keeps turning and and as we keep changing and who we are, there are other dreams of mine that are finally coming to fruition, and I think those things will change.

I think this is another step for me to progress out of in the future. So who I will be in 20 years, I don't even know, right? I think who I am today is exactly who I said.

You know, I'm a family man, love. I'm a guide more to my kids at this point. In giving them the choices, whether, you know they want to do something and giving them the option so they understand both choices and they can make it for themselves.

And I think they're better off making those choices because we growing up didn't have that. It was a dictatorship, right? Yes. You know, this is what you're going to do and this soon you're going to do it.

And this is this, this is and a lot of times the old Pernell was like that, you know, and, having to let that go, understanding there's a new approach because there's so many ways that we can live our lives.

And I think them being as little as they are, need to have those choices early on, because those are memories that lasts for a lifetime. So I'm so curious.

This is gorgeous. As you're talking about this transformation, even letting go of that old and accepting that the next is, you know, is I'm going to flow with whatever is and that this moment, this transformation, what are you seeing around you?

You know, you brought in, you know, your your parenting style. You know, what is showing up in the world for you and this moment in your relationships. Yeah.

Great question. I believe that I even I believe I would say I know that right now the choices that I have made and that relationship that have opened up, I wouldn't have imagined it even three months ago.

I would say healing was a part of the journey. But once you've kind of understand where you are in your place, those things that you want to manifest in the world start to become a reality.

Whether it's financial stability, whether it's the relationships that you cater towards. My wife and I have been married for 19 years, and it's been the best relationship that we've had up till now, right?

We're so much more open with each other. She's more accepting of the things that she sees. There's no longer that fake emotions that, you know, we want to hide amongst each other because we want to be this perfect individual.

We just are who we are. And if we can talk through those things, it just makes us in a better position. Now, some relationships do tend to go away at the same time as new ones are formed because as you, I think, align more to your true self.

Those frequencies and vibrations open up the next level of opportunities or relationships of that nature. And there's some that go away and it's okay for those to go away.

So yes, I'm still within, I think, a transformation as we all are in one way or another. But today's beautiful and I love everything about it. We go back to the term entrainment, right.

It's the entrainment both what you resonate with, what you see start to match with. Right. That's entrainment. And entrainment goes in so many levels.

It goes into the cellular, you know, resonance of frequency the mechanical frequency in the brain. And then we talk about the social entrainment which is you know, your environment right.

When they and your kids and your wife kind of recognize your energy is not as activated as it was. And and they can settle, they can they can resonate with that energy frequency.

And then what attracts that frequency is also a way of that expanded entrainment. And so it's all about entrainment. I do it here because you can medically put it into words.

What I felt I had yeah it was working. That's a, that's a I think it's a, it's not even a medical word actually. It should be. Right. So yeah it should be a medical word.

It's a concept. And I think it has to do with resonance and sound and just, the physics of it. But I'm really, you know, kind of even thinking that there's like a philosophical kind of thing that ties all of this together.

I mean, we've talked safety, we've talked trust, we've talked transformation. And it's like we're in a crucible here, you know, and there's also like this, you know, I, I read a little bit of a post you made last week about, you know, just the what Dharma means to you, right.

Like what your spiritual kind of understanding of what it is that we're embedded in. And I'm, I'm hearing those threads as you're talking, like going with, you know, the flow of things, the energetics, trusting there's there's just this like, as you're talking, the sense of groundedness to your energy.

Like you're very sure you're you're, you know, relaxed in your confidence and it shows it glows. Every cell is kind of radiating that. And I and I want to just ask you, like, how do you conceptualize that or how do you think about I don't know if I think about it a lot as far as me glowing or your secret.

Right? Found cleanser said itself. Yeah. So my wife puts all these masks and stuff on. I go, there you go. I don't even need to do that anymore. I just think I'm clean and it works.

You just radiate outwards. Well, this is what we're talking about. You know, this transformation is inner to outer it. And we're talking about this inner process.

And then it becomes manifest outwardly. And it's really hard. And I think that's where we're here in this podcast, trying to really understand what is it that allows someone to do that.

Because it doesn't work the same way for everybody. You know, there's there's the struggle of actually getting ketamine therapy to work for you, and there's a lot of people who are doing it not in this way, you know, and I'm not seeing the benefits.

So it's not just all ketamine, the molecule. You get the infusion and you're done. We're talking about there's an entire system within you, and you have to give it permission for it to be activated.

And you have to have a reason for why, you know, you have to find your reason for why. And then when you find your reasons for why and the changes are happening, then you got to have some direction, some way to shoot your arrow, because now you're like a force, you know, you've got Arjun's arrow lined up.

You don't know which way you're heading. So what's your kind of way of bringing this together? Because obviously you're living by that and we can tell it's showing.

So I appreciate that. Absolutely. I would say, you know again like ketamine is just that one door. It's just it was just, that door that opened up, like is it going to be beneficial is only how much you interpret that benefit to be in?

How much is it going to drive to the next level in your life or the cycles through your life, either enhancing those things in one way or the other, and then accepting the other items that come along with it?

So I think I could have seen this cycle negatively impact me as well. In certain points where you didn't feel good and it's not. Every therapy gives you the same boost in energy for the next one.

It's it's now opening up something else that you may not have thought of. I can say that it just starts with your core belief of, is my doing this just to do this?

Or am I doing this for something better? Am I? Am I doing this for them? Betterment of me? And what does that mean to you? And so when I went or I started, it was just an opportunity that was giving a try and it was open to it.

But now where that focus is really kind of come down to different levels. You have to incorporate this, have, as, I think you know, just a part of the meal to as a side dish event to your meal, which is considered your life.

And how do you then dissect that? Is it changing your meal in your life? And for me, it has. It's changed courses. You know, a couple of times it's like it's gone through its own where I've, I've, I felt like I've resonated lower.

I feel like I resonated much higher. And it's to find a balance. So how I, I feel like the outward ness comes out is only because of how much you put into yourself.

One and two is taking that and continuing the journey. We've all gone to parties and and met with mixers, and everyone has had this really great time.

And people are talking about business or relationships. And over the course of three weeks it's kind of fizzle down. Right. And you got to re-energize that.

But how do you keep that energy going while you're not in that situation? How do you keep that energy or what you have just discovered from that session?

Carried over as a positive impact over the next 3 to 4 weeks? So for me, it was looking back and actually documenting, and I was writing and I was saying, hey, this is how I felt, this is how what I went through, and I just wrote it.

Whether it was good, bad, ugly, whoever wants to interpret it, it was just what it was. And me looking back and going, okay. You know, now I see it from a different perspective three weeks later and maybe even a different vantage point that I'm rediscovering something that I, I didn't think of at the time.

And I think those things then finally hit home as you start feeling the things in the drive, as you start feeling the different emotions, writing it down, was it just another way of capturing it?

Talking about your sessions afterwards actually helps you discover so much more without just saying, hey, I want to, I want to hold this within myself.

Now I've had a great session, but I want to talk about I think if you don't talk about it, you're doing yourself a disservice. Whatever you felt, whatever you saw, you need to try to verbalize it in one way or the other, and it will come to you as you go through that.

Most recently. So a recent session I had, I was, I think the inspiration and the focus point was more internal to me. And to discover a little bit more into the shadow works that we were, we were talking about and we started off seeing pastels and colors and water and underneath the water and, and shapes and colors and me trying to play with it.

And I didn't know what all it meant. And I think it ended with, you know, laughter and so forth. But after coming out of that and talking through it, I felt like that session for me was becoming a kid again and getting to enjoy the things I never had.

I'm colorblind, and I felt like I saw colors for the first time in that fashion. Through that experience, I felt like being raised in the household I was was very strict and not being able to play as I was given an opportunity as beautiful.

So I think this sessions bring things to you that you may not think of, but it definitely is beneficial to talk through them. I want to just honor what you just because it really resonates even across.

And this screen resonates, your story resonates. That child looking at the color as a colorblind child, looking at all the colors, thinking of play, thinking of what I can do now, being that something was healed in that session, that was that part of self that was holding on to a sense of isolation.

I'm not like everybody else. I don't get to play like everybody else. And what that you know, that emotion that just came up is so complicated that we can't put it into words.

But when we can feel it and we can resonate together and we can recognize that it was reflected back to us, this very complicated, sweet, beautiful, precious, transpersonal meaning happening between not just two people here in this realm, but between all of us and the child.

Yes, in that other realm to say you are cared for, you are loved. Yes. You didn't get to experience it, but share it is very real way and that goes deep to that layers of the onion that you're cutting.

Like you just went yet another layer and healed, and how just absolutely tremendous that we have the ability to plumb so deep. And the healer, our own sake also heals kernel by you sharing which shared it resonated.

It touched a chord because we have this experience universally but generationally. And, you know, our historical generational trauma that we carry, that you know, the stories about power patterned behavior that has existed before we were born.

Right? And what that feels like to really connect to, to that part of you that was hurting or that part of you that was held down by this dictatorship as you described?

Yeah. I mean, this is very it resonates, story resonates. We're all three from the subcontinent and our generational. We have a shared generational trauma and we and so it resonated.

Yeah. And it healed as well. Yeah. And I'm really brought to thinking of what that work you just did or what just happened or was allowed to happen in that crucible allows us in a very essential way to get out of our own way.

Right. You now no longer carry that in that heavy way, and sometimes it even opens up that channel to, you know, look at those conditions with compassion.

Look at the people who are around you at that time with maybe more compassion than you have been able to in the past. Right. And how that repairs our relationship in this moment.

You know, as we're all getting into this area of aging parents, right, where we we were very aware that our, you know, that generation has not only gone through trauma, but we have shared this traumatic experience of migration and scarcity and the stresses of survival, really, and alienation and, you know, being being, you know, new and this American world and what that asks of our children.

We haven't talked about the burdens of migrant children. It's country, you know. But what it does is it gets into that whole experience, gets in the way of our relationship with our parents, like it gets in the way of being able to show love or truly feel it.

And when we do this work, what we're doing is actually repairing the relationships that are present because your heart is now more open, right? Absolutely.

I think there's so much to these discoveries that it goes beyond words. It goes beyond the feeling in the emotions that carry in the outward direction is what you talked about was the internal healing at the cellular level?

I think it starts to then become a different you because you're changing something and healed something and experienced all of it at once, where you couldn't have understood it years ago.

And it's in stages. If this thing, if this experience would have came 2 or 3 years ago, it might not have felt as what I had felt that session. So I think, you know, again, having that open mindedness and looking forward to what you have today, because these choices that we have right now are the ones that make us really experience life to the fullest and a part of it is either the therapy or part of it is the relationships.

A part of it is the spiritual growth, and a lot of it is you, because that's the only person you have control over is you. I left you speechless. You talk about driving it.

Thank you for it. It's for being here, pronoun and really sharing your story. Yeah, yeah. And I just honor that. Absolutely. It's a it's a beautiful, thing.

That space, you know, to give that space to breathe. Well. You're welcome. I really appreciate, you know, being gone and having gone through, you know, some of my journey, I, I really feel that other veterans should look into the ketamine assisted therapy in one way or another, whether just talking through it with someone that has experienced it, or being open to conversations with the facilitation of how the process works.

If you are open to it, I would definitely say take the first step. It is life changing and we usually close our session with a question because we are too curious.

MDS and what would be a curious question that you would like to ask us, or the audience or yourself, or curious questions? See, I should have prepared a little bit.

I know, that's so right. Okay. I, I would say a question to the both of you. Where do you see this process headed in the future for more people? How do you see it developing in the next five years?

I think the key word is for for more people and for more people is is exactly what we're looking at. Where are our challenges today? And that is really the purpose.

Again, to make this podcast is to educate, you know, for more people. So that they have knowledge and they can come prepared and they can see the experience of others and learn from that experience.

So I would say if we are educating for more people, we are again opening up that possibility, which again allows that question of more people can learn and more people can do the treatments and become aware and then we get to advocacy, which is another work that we're doing.

But at to Cmdb, we are Aercap we are we are adolescent and young adult providers, ketamine assisted providers. That's the acronym. And it's an advocacy platform because we want to raise awareness, we want to educate, and we want our government to pay attention, our health care, to pay attention to this, to the outcomes, to patients stories and experience.

And that's very important. So the next years, few years, I feel like there will be an opening to other ways of healing, which has already been an already discussion.

And patients are already seeing the gap in health care. And they have they're needing something else and they're seeking it. So that's going to happen.

And we have to be ready for that. And that's why education for people who are doing this work so vital. And then and there are ethical questions around this work too, that needs to be in a constant forefront of our the work that we're doing.

So the next few years, I hope I answered your question, is really an access based, driven on need, on demand and education. It's not going to come the other way.

No, I totally agree. I think the work that you're doing is, I can't even put it into words how valuable it is. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for. No.

Thanks for joining us on the Two cuties NDI podcast. We hope today's episode inspired you to ask new questions and explore fresh perspectives. We challenge you to ask us those and ask questions that you're curious about in your medical practice, condition, health, and wellness.

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Pranil Shankar

Breaking The Cycle: A Veteran’s Journey of Healing, Purpose and Transformation