Full Transcript Introduction to Trip Lab 0:03 Welcome to the trip [music] lab where we 0:03 Welcome to the trip [music] lab where we explore integrative medicine, 0:04 explore integrative medicine, 0:04 explore integrative medicine, psychedelics, and the unanswered 0:06 psychedelics, and the unanswered 0:06 psychedelics, and the unanswered questions between mind and body. I'm 0:08 questions between mind and body. I'm 0:08 questions between mind and body. I'm your host, Dr. Mary Ella Wood, a [music] 0:10 your host, Dr. Mary Ella Wood, a [music] 0:10 your host, Dr. Mary Ella Wood, a [music] triple board certified integrative 0:12 triple board certified integrative 0:12 triple board certified integrative medicine physician. 0:14 medicine physician. 0:14 medicine physician. Hi everyone, welcome back to the trip 0:16 Hi everyone, welcome back to the trip 0:16 Hi everyone, welcome back to the trip lab. Today we are diving deep into some 0:19 lab. Today we are diving deep into some 0:19 lab. Today we are diving deep into some rabbit holes. We are going to explore 0:20 rabbit holes. We are going to explore 0:20 rabbit holes. We are going to explore what I personally think are the most 0:23 what I personally think are the most 0:23 what I personally think are the most fascinating things about psychedelics. 0:25 fascinating things about psychedelics. 0:25 fascinating things about psychedelics. They really are asking us to answer one 0:27 They really are asking us to answer one 0:27 They really are asking us to answer one specific question. What is 0:29 specific question. What is 0:29 specific question. What is consciousness? And that really in my 0:32 consciousness? And that really in my 0:32 consciousness? And that really in my opinion is one of the most interesting 0:34 opinion is one of the most interesting 0:34 opinion is one of the most interesting things that humans can talk about and 0:36 things that humans can talk about and 0:36 things that humans can talk about and think about. And yes, psychedelics are 0:38 think about. And yes, psychedelics are 0:38 think about. And yes, psychedelics are continuously showing up as a very 0:39 continuously showing up as a very 0:39 continuously showing up as a very promising treatment for mental health 0:41 promising treatment for mental health 0:41 promising treatment for mental health conditions. And as a physician up until 0:44 conditions. And as a physician up until 0:44 conditions. And as a physician up until this point, that's really what I have 0:45 this point, that's really what I have 0:45 this point, that's really what I have focused on in my professional work. But 0:47 focused on in my professional work. But 0:47 focused on in my professional work. But what truly sparked my initial interest 0:49 what truly sparked my initial interest 0:49 what truly sparked my initial interest in psychedelics is this. So everything 0:52 in psychedelics is this. So everything 0:52 in psychedelics is this. So everything that we are going to talk about today 0:53 that we are going to talk about today 0:53 that we are going to talk about today and I am so jazzed. This stuff really
Substack and Episode Roadmap 0:56 and I am so jazzed. This stuff really 0:56 and I am so jazzed. This stuff really lights my soul on fire. And as a quick 0:58 lights my soul on fire. And as a quick 0:58 lights my soul on fire. And as a quick reminder, the Trip Lab is now on 1:00 reminder, the Trip Lab is now on 1:00 reminder, the Trip Lab is now on Substack. So the podcast is still 1:02 Substack. So the podcast is still 1:02 Substack. So the podcast is still definitely going to be on Spotify, 1:04 definitely going to be on Spotify, 1:04 definitely going to be on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, wherever you get your 1:05 YouTube, Apple, wherever you get your 1:05 YouTube, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts, but every episode will now 1:08 podcasts, but every episode will now 1:08 podcasts, but every episode will now also live on Substack with expanded show 1:10 also live on Substack with expanded show 1:10 also live on Substack with expanded show notes, full episode transcripts, and all 1:13 notes, full episode transcripts, and all 1:13 notes, full episode transcripts, and all of the studies and sources I reference 1:14 of the studies and sources I reference 1:14 of the studies and sources I reference linked all in one place. So you can find 1:16 linked all in one place. So you can find 1:16 linked all in one place. So you can find my Substack page at dr 1:18 my Substack page at dr 1:18 my Substack page at dr miela.substack.com. 1:20 miela.substack.com. 1:20 miela.substack.com. So dr m a r y l a.substack.com 1:24 So dr m a r y l a.substack.com 1:24 So dr m a r y l a.substack.com and it will of course also be linked in 1:26 and it will of course also be linked in 1:26 and it will of course also be linked in the episode description. And paid 1:28 the episode description. And paid 1:28 the episode description. And paid subscribers on Substack will also get 1:30 subscribers on Substack will also get 1:30 subscribers on Substack will also get more in-depth companion guides to all of 1:33 more in-depth companion guides to all of 1:33 more in-depth companion guides to all of these triplap episodes along with many 1:35 these triplap episodes along with many 1:35 these triplap episodes along with many more in-depth physician created guides 1:38 more in-depth physician created guides 1:38 more in-depth physician created guides and goodies outside of the podcast. And 1:40 and goodies outside of the podcast. And 1:40 and goodies outside of the podcast. And I am super excited about the companion 1:43 I am super excited about the companion 1:43 I am super excited about the companion guide for this episode. So it's called 1:45 guide for this episode. So it's called 1:45 guide for this episode. So it's called the reality field guide and it goes 1:47 the reality field guide and it goes 1:47 the reality field guide and it goes deeper into everything that we are about 1:49 deeper into everything that we are about 1:49 deeper into everything that we are about to explore here in a really fun 1:51 to explore here in a really fun 1:51 to explore here in a really fun anesthetic field guide format that you 1:53 anesthetic field guide format that you 1:53 anesthetic field guide format that you can download as a PDF. So, it includes 1:55 can download as a PDF. So, it includes 1:55 can download as a PDF. So, it includes extras like how to interpret the 1:57 extras like how to interpret the 1:57 extras like how to interpret the research when a topic gets weird, which 1:59 research when a topic gets weird, which 1:59 research when a topic gets weird, which we will definitely get into today, a 2:01 we will definitely get into today, a 2:01 we will definitely get into today, a little map of the major consciousness 2:03 little map of the major consciousness 2:03 little map of the major consciousness theories, case files, deeper dives into 2:06 theories, case files, deeper dives into 2:06 theories, case files, deeper dives into all of the declassified government 2:07 all of the declassified government 2:07 all of the declassified government documents that we're going to talk about 2:09 documents that we're going to talk about 2:09 documents that we're going to talk about today, and my favorite part, a choose 2:11 today, and my favorite part, a choose 2:11 today, and my favorite part, a choose your own rabbit hole section if you 2:13 your own rabbit hole section if you 2:13 your own rabbit hole section if you really want to keep going. So, 2:14 really want to keep going. So, 2:14 really want to keep going. So, definitely check it out. I am honestly 2:16 definitely check it out. I am honestly 2:16 definitely check it out. I am honestly loving Subjack because it really has 2:18 loving Subjack because it really has 2:18 loving Subjack because it really has given me a creative outlet to do so much 2:20 given me a creative outlet to do so much 2:20 given me a creative outlet to do so much more than just record a podcast. So 2:22 more than just record a podcast. So 2:22 more than just record a podcast. So definitely go check it out if any of 2:24 definitely go check it out if any of 2:24 definitely go check it out if any of that is of interest to you. But now on 2:26 that is of interest to you. But now on 2:26 that is of interest to you. But now on to today's episode. So a quick little 2:29 to today's episode. So a quick little 2:29 to today's episode. So a quick little road map. We are going to talk about the 2:31 road map. We are going to talk about the 2:31 road map. We are going to talk about the different theories of consciousness and 2:33 different theories of consciousness and 2:33 different theories of consciousness and what we know from a neuroscience 2:35 what we know from a neuroscience 2:35 what we know from a neuroscience perspective. And of course the 2:36 perspective. And of course the 2:36 perspective. And of course the psychedelic research has really pushed a 2:39 psychedelic research has really pushed a 2:39 psychedelic research has really pushed a lot of those ideas forward. We're also 2:41 lot of those ideas forward. We're also 2:41 lot of those ideas forward. We're also going to go deeper into the more 2:42 going to go deeper into the more 2:42 going to go deeper into the more philosophical theories of consciousness. 2:44 philosophical theories of consciousness. 2:44 philosophical theories of consciousness. Some I will say are a little bit bold 2:46 Some I will say are a little bit bold 2:46 Some I will say are a little bit bold and controversial. So put on your
What Consciousness Means 2:48 and controversial. So put on your 2:48 and controversial. So put on your curious explorer hat. Then we're going 2:51 curious explorer hat. Then we're going 2:51 curious explorer hat. Then we're going to pressure test what we know about 2:52 to pressure test what we know about 2:52 to pressure test what we know about psychedelics against these theories, 2:55 psychedelics against these theories, 2:55 psychedelics against these theories, both the neuroscience ones and the 2:57 both the neuroscience ones and the 2:57 both the neuroscience ones and the philosophy ones. So with that, we are 2:59 philosophy ones. So with that, we are 2:59 philosophy ones. So with that, we are going to get a little bit weird and 3:00 going to get a little bit weird and 3:00 going to get a little bit weird and trippy. But fear not, this episode and 3:03 trippy. But fear not, this episode and 3:03 trippy. But fear not, this episode and of course the entire transcript will be 3:05 of course the entire transcript will be 3:05 of course the entire transcript will be available on Substack and will be 3:07 available on Substack and will be 3:07 available on Substack and will be heavily cited and I will always clearly 3:09 heavily cited and I will always clearly 3:09 heavily cited and I will always clearly state where all of these facts and 3:11 state where all of these facts and 3:11 state where all of these facts and theories are coming from and also 3:13 theories are coming from and also 3:13 theories are coming from and also clearly differentiate between what is 3:14 clearly differentiate between what is 3:14 clearly differentiate between what is actually been studied, what is more just 3:17 actually been studied, what is more just 3:17 actually been studied, what is more just postulation and of course what is just a 3:19 postulation and of course what is just a 3:19 postulation and of course what is just a theory. We are also going to dive into 3:21 theory. We are also going to dive into 3:21 theory. We are also going to dive into how DMT really pokes holes in so many of 3:24 how DMT really pokes holes in so many of 3:24 how DMT really pokes holes in so many of these frameworks that we currently have 3:26 these frameworks that we currently have 3:26 these frameworks that we currently have about consciousness. So that means 3:28 about consciousness. So that means 3:28 about consciousness. So that means getting into what the entities that 3:30 getting into what the entities that 3:30 getting into what the entities that people see during a DMT experience could 3:33 people see during a DMT experience could 3:33 people see during a DMT experience could actually mean. So for those of you that 3:35 actually mean. So for those of you that 3:35 actually mean. So for those of you that don't know, people quite literally see 3:36 don't know, people quite literally see 3:36 don't know, people quite literally see humans, elves, fairies when they take 3:39 humans, elves, fairies when they take 3:39 humans, elves, fairies when they take DMT and they report that those 3:41 DMT and they report that those 3:41 DMT and they report that those experiences feel realer than real. And 3:44 experiences feel realer than real. And 3:44 experiences feel realer than real. And this is not just woo woo. This is not 3:45 this is not just woo woo. This is not 3:45 this is not just woo woo. This is not just hearsay. John's Hopkins, a major 3:48 just hearsay. John's Hopkins, a major 3:48 just hearsay. John's Hopkins, a major academic medical center, has actually 3:49 academic medical center, has actually 3:49 academic medical center, has actually done some pretty interesting research in 3:51 done some pretty interesting research in 3:51 done some pretty interesting research in this realm, which we will definitely get 3:52 this realm, which we will definitely get 3:52 this realm, which we will definitely get into. We will also look at what 3:54 into. We will also look at what 3:54 into. We will also look at what indigenous thoughts and voices have to 3:55 indigenous thoughts and voices have to 3:56 indigenous thoughts and voices have to say about psychedelics and consciousness 3:57 say about psychedelics and consciousness 3:57 say about psychedelics and consciousness more broadly, and more importantly, why 3:59 more broadly, and more importantly, why 3:59 more broadly, and more importantly, why altered states across widely different 4:01 altered states across widely different 4:01 altered states across widely different contexts repeatedly generate similar 4:04 contexts repeatedly generate similar 4:04 contexts repeatedly generate similar experiences of unity, ineffibility, and 4:07 experiences of unity, ineffibility, and 4:07 experiences of unity, ineffibility, and interconnectedness. Then we are going to 4:09 interconnectedness. Then we are going to 4:09 interconnectedness. Then we are going to be little spies and see what the US 4:11 be little spies and see what the US 4:12 be little spies and see what the US government was up to years ago and what 4:13 government was up to years ago and what 4:13 government was up to years ago and what I suspect probably is still up to today 4:16 I suspect probably is still up to today 4:16 I suspect probably is still up to today in some way or shape to really 4:18 in some way or shape to really 4:18 in some way or shape to really understand this stuff because if you 4:19 understand this stuff because if you 4:20 understand this stuff because if you don't already know a lot of these 4:21 don't already know a lot of these 4:21 don't already know a lot of these documents are now declassified. So MK 4:23 documents are now declassified. So MK 4:23 documents are now declassified. So MK Ultra, Bluebird, Artichoke, remote 4:25 Ultra, Bluebird, Artichoke, remote 4:25 Ultra, Bluebird, Artichoke, remote viewing work and so much more. So 4:27 viewing work and so much more. So 4:27 viewing work and so much more. So through all that ultimately what we are 4:29 through all that ultimately what we are 4:29 through all that ultimately what we are going to talk about and answer is what 4:31 going to talk about and answer is what 4:31 going to talk about and answer is what is reality? And when we call 4:34 is reality? And when we call 4:34 is reality? And when we call psychedelics hallucinogens, 4:37 psychedelics hallucinogens, 4:37 psychedelics hallucinogens, are they actually producing a 4:38 are they actually producing a 4:38 are they actually producing a hallucination or are they really showing 4:41 hallucination or are they really showing 4:41 hallucination or are they really showing us more of what is actually there? So 4:44 us more of what is actually there? So 4:44 us more of what is actually there? So let's just get into it. We will start 4:46 let's just get into it. We will start 4:46 let's just get into it. We will start far less weird, of course. So what are 4:49 far less weird, of course. So what are 4:49 far less weird, of course. So what are the current widely accepted neuroscience 4:52 the current widely accepted neuroscience 4:52 the current widely accepted neuroscience and philosophical theories of 4:54 and philosophical theories of 4:54 and philosophical theories of consciousness? So consciousness very 4:56 consciousness? So consciousness very 4:56 consciousness? So consciousness very simply is thought to be our subjective 4:58 simply is thought to be our subjective 4:58 simply is thought to be our subjective experience. So what it feels like to be 5:01 experience. So what it feels like to be 5:01 experience. So what it feels like to be alive, to have thoughts and feelings, 5:03 alive, to have thoughts and feelings, 5:03 alive, to have thoughts and feelings, and ultimately an awareness of the 5:06 and ultimately an awareness of the 5:06 and ultimately an awareness of the world. And in more psychology speak, we 5:08 world. And in more psychology speak, we 5:08 world. And in more psychology speak, we differentiate this from 5:09 differentiate this from 5:09 differentiate this from preconsciousness, which is information 5:10 preconsciousness, which is information 5:10 preconsciousness, which is information that we aren't thinking about in the 5:12 that we aren't thinking about in the 5:12 that we aren't thinking about in the present moment, but can easily bring 5:14 present moment, but can easily bring 5:14 present moment, but can easily bring forward into our consciousness. So 5:17 forward into our consciousness. So 5:17 forward into our consciousness. So things like our address or our phone 5:18 things like our address or our phone 5:18 things like our address or our phone number. Then our subconscious gets a 5:20 number. Then our subconscious gets a 5:20 number. Then our subconscious gets a little bit deeper. So this is what 5:21 little bit deeper. So this is what 5:21 little bit deeper. So this is what influences our behavior without us 5:24 influences our behavior without us 5:24 influences our behavior without us really knowing about it. And then 5:25 really knowing about it. And then 5:25 really knowing about it. And then unconscious, a little bit nebulous. It 5:27 unconscious, a little bit nebulous. It 5:27 unconscious, a little bit nebulous. It can mean a couple different things. So 5:29 can mean a couple different things. So 5:29 can mean a couple different things. So psychologically it's the hidden deep 5:31 psychologically it's the hidden deep 5:31 psychologically it's the hidden deep memories or desires that we cannot 5:32 memories or desires that we cannot 5:32 memories or desires that we cannot easily access. From a medical 5:35 easily access. From a medical 5:35 easily access. From a medical perspective we think of it as both a 5:37 perspective we think of it as both a 5:37 perspective we think of it as both a mental and a physical state where we are 5:38 mental and a physical state where we are 5:38 mental and a physical state where we are unaware or unable to respond. But really 5:41 unaware or unable to respond. But really 5:41 unaware or unable to respond. But really it's more of a disconnect. When we are 5:43 it's more of a disconnect. When we are 5:43 it's more of a disconnect. When we are in deep sleep or under anesthesia we 5:46 in deep sleep or under anesthesia we 5:46 in deep sleep or under anesthesia we appear to be unresponsive to the world 5:48 appear to be unresponsive to the world 5:48 appear to be unresponsive to the world around us. But unresponsiveness does not 5:50 around us. But unresponsiveness does not 5:50 around us. But unresponsiveness does not necessarily mean that consciousness has 5:52 necessarily mean that consciousness has 5:52 necessarily mean that consciousness has gone away in these states. We obviously 5:54 gone away in these states. We obviously 5:54 gone away in these states. We obviously dream while we're sleeping. And under 5:56 dream while we're sleeping. And under 5:56 dream while we're sleeping. And under anesthesia, consciousness, 5:58 anesthesia, consciousness, 5:58 anesthesia, consciousness, connectedness, and responsiveness can 6:00 connectedness, and responsiveness can 6:00 connectedness, and responsiveness can disassociate. And I'm sure you've all 6:02 disassociate. And I'm sure you've all 6:02 disassociate. And I'm sure you've all heard the accounts of people going under 6:03 heard the accounts of people going under 6:03 heard the accounts of people going under anesthesia and then report very specific 6:06 anesthesia and then report very specific 6:06 anesthesia and then report very specific events and out-of- body experiences 6:08 events and out-of- body experiences 6:08 events and out-of- body experiences during the anesthesia that turn out to 6:10 during the anesthesia that turn out to 6:10 during the anesthesia that turn out to be true. And there's actually a quite 6:11 be true. And there's actually a quite 6:12 be true. And there's actually a quite fascinating paper published in 6:13 fascinating paper published in 6:13 fascinating paper published in anesthesiology that dives into the idea 6:16 anesthesiology that dives into the idea 6:16 anesthesiology that dives into the idea that unresponsiveness 6:18 that unresponsiveness 6:18 that unresponsiveness actually does not equal unconsciousness. 6:21 actually does not equal unconsciousness. 6:21 actually does not equal unconsciousness. So essentially they explain how 6:22 So essentially they explain how 6:22 So essentially they explain how responsiveness gets turned off in 6:24 responsiveness gets turned off in 6:24 responsiveness gets turned off in different ways but consciousness itself 6:27 different ways but consciousness itself 6:27 different ways but consciousness itself actually does appear to remain under 6:30 actually does appear to remain under 6:30 actually does appear to remain under anesthesia. So let's talk about the
Neuroscience Theories of Consciousness 6:31 anesthesia. So let's talk about the 6:32 anesthesia. So let's talk about the neuroscience definitions of 6:33 neuroscience definitions of 6:33 neuroscience definitions of consciousness. And I think the first 6:35 consciousness. And I think the first 6:35 consciousness. And I think the first thing that we think of is the neural 6:37 thing that we think of is the neural 6:37 thing that we think of is the neural correlates of consciousness which are 6:39 correlates of consciousness which are 6:39 correlates of consciousness which are the smallest set of brain structures and 6:41 the smallest set of brain structures and 6:41 the smallest set of brain structures and events that happen to make consciousness 6:44 events that happen to make consciousness 6:44 events that happen to make consciousness happen. So which neurons are firing and 6:47 happen. So which neurons are firing and 6:47 happen. So which neurons are firing and which pathways are lit up so that we 6:49 which pathways are lit up so that we 6:49 which pathways are lit up so that we experience something. So for example, we 6:51 experience something. So for example, we 6:51 experience something. So for example, we can map out the patterns in our brain 6:53 can map out the patterns in our brain 6:53 can map out the patterns in our brain that reliably correlate with the 6:55 that reliably correlate with the 6:55 that reliably correlate with the experience of knowing for example a 6:57 experience of knowing for example a 6:57 experience of knowing for example a color is blue. But why does that 7:00 color is blue. But why does that 7:00 color is blue. But why does that particular neural activity feel like 7:03 particular neural activity feel like 7:03 particular neural activity feel like blue from the inside? So this whole 7:05 blue from the inside? So this whole 7:05 blue from the inside? So this whole neuroscience idea of consciousness as 7:08 neuroscience idea of consciousness as 7:08 neuroscience idea of consciousness as purely neural correlates really does 7:09 purely neural correlates really does 7:09 purely neural correlates really does align with the philosophical idea of 7:11 align with the philosophical idea of 7:11 align with the philosophical idea of physicalism. So that's the idea that 7:14 physicalism. So that's the idea that 7:14 physicalism. So that's the idea that everything including consciousness stems 7:16 everything including consciousness stems 7:16 everything including consciousness stems from something physical. So 7:18 from something physical. So 7:18 from something physical. So consciousness itself is a physical 7:20 consciousness itself is a physical 7:20 consciousness itself is a physical process that happens in the brain in 7:22 process that happens in the brain in 7:22 process that happens in the brain in response to physical stimuli that come 7:24 response to physical stimuli that come 7:24 response to physical stimuli that come in. And this sounds very simple, but 7:26 in. And this sounds very simple, but 7:26 in. And this sounds very simple, but it's not actually reduced to one single 7:28 it's not actually reduced to one single 7:28 it's not actually reduced to one single neuron firing. It really is more of a 7:30 neuron firing. It really is more of a 7:30 neuron firing. It really is more of a collection of complex processes 7:32 collection of complex processes 7:32 collection of complex processes happening. And on one hand, we really 7:34 happening. And on one hand, we really 7:34 happening. And on one hand, we really can't argue that idea too much because 7:36 can't argue that idea too much because 7:36 can't argue that idea too much because we can chemically suppress these events 7:38 we can chemically suppress these events 7:38 we can chemically suppress these events with anesthetic drugs and we can change 7:40 with anesthetic drugs and we can change 7:40 with anesthetic drugs and we can change the way that things are perceived. But 7:43 the way that things are perceived. But 7:43 the way that things are perceived. But then we get into David Chalmer's hard 7:45 then we get into David Chalmer's hard 7:45 then we get into David Chalmer's hard problem of consciousness. So basically 7:48 problem of consciousness. So basically 7:48 problem of consciousness. So basically it's yes we can explain how information 7:51 it's yes we can explain how information 7:51 it's yes we can explain how information comes in. So light entering the eye for 7:53 comes in. So light entering the eye for 7:53 comes in. So light entering the eye for example. How the brain processes that 7:55 example. How the brain processes that 7:55 example. How the brain processes that information and compares it to a prior 7:57 information and compares it to a prior 7:57 information and compares it to a prior experience which is predictive 7:59 experience which is predictive 7:59 experience which is predictive processing. We'll get into that in a 8:01 processing. We'll get into that in a 8:01 processing. We'll get into that in a minute here. And then ultimately we 8:03 minute here. And then ultimately we 8:03 minute here. And then ultimately we identify something as a color or an 8:05 identify something as a color or an 8:05 identify something as a color or an object etc etc. But still how does any 8:09 object etc etc. But still how does any 8:09 object etc etc. But still how does any of that become subjective experience? 8:11 of that become subjective experience? 8:11 of that become subjective experience? Mapping the neural activity does not 8:13 Mapping the neural activity does not 8:13 Mapping the neural activity does not fully explain how physical activity 8:16 fully explain how physical activity 8:16 fully explain how physical activity becomes an inner experience. So this can 8:18 becomes an inner experience. So this can 8:18 becomes an inner experience. So this can get a little bit confusing, but I think 8:20 get a little bit confusing, but I think 8:20 get a little bit confusing, but I think another related way to understand this 8:22 another related way to understand this 8:22 another related way to understand this is Thomas Nagel's famously asked 8:24 is Thomas Nagel's famously asked 8:24 is Thomas Nagel's famously asked question, what is it like to be a bat? 8:27 question, what is it like to be a bat? 8:27 question, what is it like to be a bat? So think about this. We can technically 8:31 So think about this. We can technically 8:31 So think about this. We can technically understand every neuron involved in 8:33 understand every neuron involved in 8:33 understand every neuron involved in echolocation and still have no idea what 8:36 echolocation and still have no idea what 8:36 echolocation and still have no idea what echolocation actually feels like inside 8:39 echolocation actually feels like inside 8:39 echolocation actually feels like inside a bat's consciousness because we are not 8:41 a bat's consciousness because we are not 8:41 a bat's consciousness because we are not bats. So his point was basically that 8:43 bats. So his point was basically that 8:44 bats. So his point was basically that describing the mechanism of a brain does 8:46 describing the mechanism of a brain does 8:46 describing the mechanism of a brain does not actually help us understand the 8:48 not actually help us understand the 8:48 not actually help us understand the subjective experience itself. So 8:50 subjective experience itself. So 8:50 subjective experience itself. So ultimately the hard problem is still a 8:52 ultimately the hard problem is still a 8:52 ultimately the hard problem is still a hard problem and we don't have an answer 8:54 hard problem and we don't have an answer 8:54 hard problem and we don't have an answer to it at least in neuroscience at this 8:57 to it at least in neuroscience at this 8:57 to it at least in neuroscience at this time. But where I think things get 8:59 time. But where I think things get 8:59 time. But where I think things get really interesting is when we look at 9:01 really interesting is when we look at 9:01 really interesting is when we look at what happens when the brain is injured. 9:03 what happens when the brain is injured. 9:03 what happens when the brain is injured. And that sort of does actually point us 9:05 And that sort of does actually point us 9:05 And that sort of does actually point us more towards this physical understanding 9:07 more towards this physical understanding 9:07 more towards this physical understanding of consciousness. Because when specific 9:10 of consciousness. Because when specific 9:10 of consciousness. Because when specific parts of the brain are injured or 9:11 parts of the brain are injured or 9:11 parts of the brain are injured or surgically removed, which I'll talk 9:12 surgically removed, which I'll talk 9:12 surgically removed, which I'll talk about in a second, it does alter 9:15 about in a second, it does alter 9:15 about in a second, it does alter awareness, language, emotional 9:17 awareness, language, emotional 9:17 awareness, language, emotional processing, and actually wakefulness 9:19 processing, and actually wakefulness 9:19 processing, and actually wakefulness itself. So yes, maybe that points to a 9:21 itself. So yes, maybe that points to a 9:21 itself. So yes, maybe that points to a more physical understanding of 9:23 more physical understanding of 9:23 more physical understanding of consciousness. However, there are some 9:26 consciousness. However, there are some 9:26 consciousness. However, there are some fascinating pieces of brain injury 9:28 fascinating pieces of brain injury 9:28 fascinating pieces of brain injury literature that complicate our 9:30 literature that complicate our 9:30 literature that complicate our understanding of physical processing. I 9:32 understanding of physical processing. I 9:32 understanding of physical processing. I think one really cool example is called 9:34 think one really cool example is called 9:34 think one really cool example is called blind sight. So, if the primary visual 9:37 blind sight. So, if the primary visual 9:37 blind sight. So, if the primary visual cortex is injured, then our ability to 9:39 cortex is injured, then our ability to 9:39 cortex is injured, then our ability to see something goes away. So, makes 9:41 see something goes away. So, makes 9:41 see something goes away. So, makes sense. If you put an object in front of 9:42 sense. If you put an object in front of 9:42 sense. If you put an object in front of these people and you ask, "What do you 9:44 these people and you ask, "What do you 9:44 these people and you ask, "What do you see?" they will essentially say nothing. 9:47 see?" they will essentially say nothing. 9:47 see?" they will essentially say nothing. Okay, that makes sense. 9:49 Okay, that makes sense. 9:49 Okay, that makes sense. But then if you force them to guess 9:52 But then if you force them to guess 9:52 But then if you force them to guess where an object is, which direction you 9:54 where an object is, which direction you 9:54 where an object is, which direction you are moving it, or just other questions 9:56 are moving it, or just other questions 9:56 are moving it, or just other questions about the object, they actually answer 9:59 about the object, they actually answer 9:59 about the object, they actually answer those questions correctly. Better than 10:01 those questions correctly. Better than 10:01 those questions correctly. Better than chance. Not 100% but better than chance. 10:04 chance. Not 100% but better than chance. 10:04 chance. Not 100% but better than chance. So essentially what this means is there 10:06 So essentially what this means is there 10:06 So essentially what this means is there is actually no conscious visual 10:09 is actually no conscious visual 10:09 is actually no conscious visual experience by technical standards, but 10:12 experience by technical standards, but 10:12 experience by technical standards, but some sort of process is happening so 10:14 some sort of process is happening so 10:14 some sort of process is happening so that these patients experience visual 10:16 that these patients experience visual 10:16 that these patients experience visual information in some way or the other. We 10:18 information in some way or the other. We 10:18 information in some way or the other. We don't exactly know how but somehow some 10:20 don't exactly know how but somehow some 10:20 don't exactly know how but somehow some information is coming in. Kind of 10:21 information is coming in. Kind of 10:22 information is coming in. Kind of related to this is split brain patients. 10:25 related to this is split brain patients. 10:25 related to this is split brain patients. So in the past there was a surgical 10:26 So in the past there was a surgical 10:26 So in the past there was a surgical treatment for patients with severe 10:28 treatment for patients with severe 10:28 treatment for patients with severe epilepsy just a seizure disorder in 10:30 epilepsy just a seizure disorder in 10:30 epilepsy just a seizure disorder in which the corpus colossum was severed or 10:32 which the corpus colossum was severed or 10:32 which the corpus colossum was severed or cut. So the corpus colossum is the major 10:34 cut. So the corpus colossum is the major 10:34 cut. So the corpus colossum is the major bridge connecting the right and left 10:36 bridge connecting the right and left 10:36 bridge connecting the right and left hemispheres. So it was cut completely. 10:39 hemispheres. So it was cut completely. 10:39 hemispheres. So it was cut completely. So no connection between left brain and 10:40 So no connection between left brain and 10:40 So no connection between left brain and right brain. And this actually created 10:42 right brain. And this actually created 10:42 right brain. And this actually created some really bizarre dissociations 10:45 some really bizarre dissociations 10:45 some really bizarre dissociations between what one hemisphere could 10:46 between what one hemisphere could 10:46 between what one hemisphere could process and what a person could 10:49 process and what a person could 10:49 process and what a person could consciously report. So for example, and 10:51 consciously report. So for example, and 10:51 consciously report. So for example, and I'll go really slow here because it can 10:52 I'll go really slow here because it can 10:52 I'll go really slow here because it can get a little bit confusing because the 10:54 get a little bit confusing because the 10:54 get a little bit confusing because the left brain controls the right body, vice 10:56 left brain controls the right body, vice 10:56 left brain controls the right body, vice versa, the visual field. So it's a 10:57 versa, the visual field. So it's a 10:57 versa, the visual field. So it's a little bit confusing. So I'll try to go 10:59 little bit confusing. So I'll try to go 10:59 little bit confusing. So I'll try to go slow here. So for example, you show an 11:01 slow here. So for example, you show an 11:02 slow here. So for example, you show an object to only the left visual field 11:05 object to only the left visual field 11:05 object to only the left visual field which is processed in the right 11:06 which is processed in the right 11:06 which is processed in the right hemisphere. That actually leads the 11:08 hemisphere. That actually leads the 11:08 hemisphere. That actually leads the patient to use their left hand to pick 11:10 patient to use their left hand to pick 11:10 patient to use their left hand to pick up that object. So they actually indeed 11:12 up that object. So they actually indeed 11:12 up that object. So they actually indeed picked up the object. But if you ask 11:14 picked up the object. But if you ask 11:14 picked up the object. But if you ask them what they saw, they will still say 11:17 them what they saw, they will still say 11:17 them what they saw, they will still say nothing because the left hemisphere 11:19 nothing because the left hemisphere 11:19 nothing because the left hemisphere never received that visual information 11:21 never received that visual information 11:21 never received that visual information even though they picked it up. So this 11:24 even though they picked it up. So this 11:24 even though they picked it up. So this kind of produced a very famous question 11:26 kind of produced a very famous question 11:26 kind of produced a very famous question of did we just create two 11:27 of did we just create two 11:27 of did we just create two consciousnesses inside one skull? So 11:31 consciousnesses inside one skull? So 11:31 consciousnesses inside one skull? So ponder that. I think it is so 11:33 ponder that. I think it is so 11:33 ponder that. I think it is so fascinating. But I do want to move on. 11:35 fascinating. But I do want to move on. 11:35 fascinating. But I do want to move on. We'll talk about the phalamus now which 11:36 We'll talk about the phalamus now which 11:36 We'll talk about the phalamus now which is where psychedelics start to come in. 11:38 is where psychedelics start to come in. 11:38 is where psychedelics start to come in. So the phalamus located pretty central 11:41 So the phalamus located pretty central 11:41 So the phalamus located pretty central in our brain. It is considered our 11:43 in our brain. It is considered our 11:43 in our brain. It is considered our sensory andformational gatekeeper. So it 11:46 sensory andformational gatekeeper. So it 11:46 sensory andformational gatekeeper. So it essentially filters, sorts out and then 11:48 essentially filters, sorts out and then 11:48 essentially filters, sorts out and then routes incoming sensory information. And 11:51 routes incoming sensory information. And 11:51 routes incoming sensory information. And most of that incoming sensory 11:53 most of that incoming sensory 11:53 most of that incoming sensory information never actually reaches 11:55 information never actually reaches 11:55 information never actually reaches conscious awareness. If it did, we would 11:57 conscious awareness. If it did, we would 11:57 conscious awareness. If it did, we would be completely overstimulated all day 11:59 be completely overstimulated all day 11:59 be completely overstimulated all day long. So a way to compare this 12:01 long. So a way to compare this 12:01 long. So a way to compare this anesthesia very simplistically it's a 12:04 anesthesia very simplistically it's a 12:04 anesthesia very simplistically it's a lot more complicated than that disrupts 12:06 lot more complicated than that disrupts 12:06 lot more complicated than that disrupts the phalamocortical processes that help 12:08 the phalamocortical processes that help 12:08 the phalamocortical processes that help sensory information become consciously 12:10 sensory information become consciously 12:10 sensory information become consciously available which is why you don't feel 12:12 available which is why you don't feel 12:12 available which is why you don't feel all the things happening during surgery 12:14 all the things happening during surgery 12:14 all the things happening during surgery doesn't come into conscious awareness. 12:16 doesn't come into conscious awareness. 12:16 doesn't come into conscious awareness. On the other hand psychedelics appear to 12:18 On the other hand psychedelics appear to 12:18 On the other hand psychedelics appear to alter this filtering and gating in the 12:20 alter this filtering and gating in the 12:20 alter this filtering and gating in the opposite way. 12:21 opposite way. 12:21 opposite way. >> [snorts] 12:21 >> [snorts] 12:21 >> [snorts] >> So information that would normally be 12:23 >> So information that would normally be 12:23 >> So information that would normally be suppressed or something that we give 12:25 suppressed or something that we give 12:25 suppressed or something that we give less weight to may actually have more 12:27 less weight to may actually have more 12:27 less weight to may actually have more influence on the conscious experience 12:29 influence on the conscious experience 12:29 influence on the conscious experience and reach more of conscious awareness. 12:31 and reach more of conscious awareness. 12:31 and reach more of conscious awareness. So this whole fact is kind of the the 12:33 So this whole fact is kind of the the 12:33 So this whole fact is kind of the the thesis for this episode. So why I am 12:35 thesis for this episode. So why I am 12:35 thesis for this episode. So why I am postulating that psychedelics may 12:37 postulating that psychedelics may 12:37 postulating that psychedelics may actually show us more of reality not 12:40 actually show us more of reality not 12:40 actually show us more of reality not less of it. But we are going to take an 12:41 less of it. But we are going to take an 12:41 less of it. But we are going to take an entire episode to hash all of that out. 12:43 entire episode to hash all of that out. 12:43 entire episode to hash all of that out. So sit tight. that really ties into the 12:45 So sit tight. that really ties into the 12:45 So sit tight. that really ties into the entropic brain hypothesis which was 12:47 entropic brain hypothesis which was 12:47 entropic brain hypothesis which was originally proposed by Robin Carheart 12:49 originally proposed by Robin Carheart 12:49 originally proposed by Robin Carheart Harris who is major major person in 12:52 Harris who is major major person in 12:52 Harris who is major major person in psychedelic research in 2014. So he 12:55 psychedelic research in 2014. So he 12:55 psychedelic research in 2014. So he essentially postulated that normal 12:56 essentially postulated that normal 12:56 essentially postulated that normal waking consciousness is actually a 12:58 waking consciousness is actually a 12:58 waking consciousness is actually a suppression of entropy or disorder. So 13:01 suppression of entropy or disorder. So 13:01 suppression of entropy or disorder. So this suppression allows us all to live 13:03 this suppression allows us all to live 13:03 this suppression allows us all to live in an agreed upon reality so that we can 13:05 in an agreed upon reality so that we can 13:05 in an agreed upon reality so that we can all function in society and interact 13:07 all function in society and interact 13:07 all function in society and interact with each other. Psychedelics disrupt 13:09 with each other. Psychedelics disrupt 13:09 with each other. Psychedelics disrupt this. So in one sense they create more 13:11 this. So in one sense they create more 13:11 this. So in one sense they create more quoteunquote disorder or entropy. So 13:14 quoteunquote disorder or entropy. So 13:14 quoteunquote disorder or entropy. So that was kind of an initial postulation 13:16 that was kind of an initial postulation 13:16 that was kind of an initial postulation which upon further research ended up 13:18 which upon further research ended up 13:18 which upon further research ended up being a little bit too simple. So that 13:20 being a little bit too simple. So that 13:20 being a little bit too simple. So that theory eventually morphed into what is 13:22 theory eventually morphed into what is 13:22 theory eventually morphed into what is now called the reebus model rebu the 13:25 now called the reebus model rebu the 13:25 now called the reebus model rebu the relaxed beliefs under psychedelics. So 13:27 relaxed beliefs under psychedelics. So 13:28 relaxed beliefs under psychedelics. So in 2019 also developed by Robin Khart 13:30 in 2019 also developed by Robin Khart 13:30 in 2019 also developed by Robin Khart Harris and also Carl Fston. So, this new 13:33 Harris and also Carl Fston. So, this new 13:33 Harris and also Carl Fston. So, this new model also incorporates predictive 13:35 model also incorporates predictive 13:35 model also incorporates predictive processing theory, which I told you we 13:37 processing theory, which I told you we 13:37 processing theory, which I told you we were going to get back to. And this is 13:39 were going to get back to. And this is 13:39 were going to get back to. And this is essentially what predictive processing 13:40 essentially what predictive processing 13:40 essentially what predictive processing theory is. As we grow up and we develop 13:43 theory is. As we grow up and we develop 13:43 theory is. As we grow up and we develop and we learn new things as adults, we 13:45 and we learn new things as adults, we 13:45 and we learn new things as adults, we update our model of the world. So, for 13:47 update our model of the world. So, for 13:47 update our model of the world. So, for example, once we learn what a table is, 13:51 example, once we learn what a table is, 13:51 example, once we learn what a table is, we don't have to construct a table from 13:53 we don't have to construct a table from 13:53 we don't have to construct a table from scratch. So, bottom up, every time we 13:54 scratch. So, bottom up, every time we 13:54 scratch. So, bottom up, every time we see one, we just know, okay, that is a 13:56 see one, we just know, okay, that is a 13:56 see one, we just know, okay, that is a table. So this top-down understanding 13:59 table. So this top-down understanding 13:59 table. So this top-down understanding and essentially highle belief systems 14:01 and essentially highle belief systems 14:01 and essentially highle belief systems end up running the show rather than that 14:03 end up running the show rather than that 14:03 end up running the show rather than that bottom up. So psychedelics quote unquote 14:06 bottom up. So psychedelics quote unquote 14:06 bottom up. So psychedelics quote unquote relax those beliefs, hence the name. So 14:09 relax those beliefs, hence the name. So 14:09 relax those beliefs, hence the name. So they essentially allow more of that 14:11 they essentially allow more of that 14:11 they essentially allow more of that bottom up information to come through. 14:13 bottom up information to come through. 14:13 bottom up information to come through. So we see more details and more of those 14:15 So we see more details and more of those 14:15 So we see more details and more of those details become available in conscious
Predictive Processing and Psychedelics 14:16 details become available in conscious 14:16 details become available in conscious awareness. And another modern theory 14:19 awareness. And another modern theory 14:19 awareness. And another modern theory that helps us understand this is called 14:21 that helps us understand this is called 14:21 that helps us understand this is called global neuronal workspace theory. 14:24 global neuronal workspace theory. 14:24 global neuronal workspace theory. So we essentially have the same 14:25 So we essentially have the same 14:26 So we essentially have the same underlying idea. So our brain is 14:28 underlying idea. So our brain is 14:28 underlying idea. So our brain is processing a ton of information all the 14:30 processing a ton of information all the 14:30 processing a ton of information all the time, but most of it stays in the 14:32 time, but most of it stays in the 14:32 time, but most of it stays in the background and something only becomes 14:35 background and something only becomes 14:35 background and something only becomes consciously available when it gets 14:37 consciously available when it gets 14:37 consciously available when it gets amplified enough to be broadcast across 14:39 amplified enough to be broadcast across 14:39 amplified enough to be broadcast across multiple brain networks. So we'll give 14:42 multiple brain networks. So we'll give 14:42 multiple brain networks. So we'll give you an example. So imagine you're in a 14:44 you an example. So imagine you're in a 14:44 you an example. So imagine you're in a crowded coffee shop. You are not 14:45 crowded coffee shop. You are not 14:46 crowded coffee shop. You are not consciously paying attention to all of 14:47 consciously paying attention to all of 14:47 consciously paying attention to all of the conversations happening around you. 14:49 the conversations happening around you. 14:49 the conversations happening around you. Sure, maybe you're a little bit nosy and 14:51 Sure, maybe you're a little bit nosy and 14:51 Sure, maybe you're a little bit nosy and you're listening into one, but you can't 14:53 you're listening into one, but you can't 14:53 you're listening into one, but you can't physically listen to all the 14:54 physically listen to all the 14:54 physically listen to all the conversations at once. That's beside the 14:56 conversations at once. That's beside the 14:56 conversations at once. That's beside the point. So, you're either working or 14:58 point. So, you're either working or 14:58 point. So, you're either working or thinking or eavesdropping and then 15:01 thinking or eavesdropping and then 15:01 thinking or eavesdropping and then suddenly someone across the room says 15:03 suddenly someone across the room says 15:03 suddenly someone across the room says your name. So, hearing your name will 15:05 your name. So, hearing your name will 15:05 your name. So, hearing your name will immediately grab your attention. So, 15:06 immediately grab your attention. So, 15:06 immediately grab your attention. So, that information quote unquote won 15:09 that information quote unquote won 15:09 that information quote unquote won access to your global workspace. And 15:11 access to your global workspace. And 15:11 access to your global workspace. And there was a pretty interesting 2025 15:12 there was a pretty interesting 2025 15:12 there was a pretty interesting 2025 paper in Nature that actually studied 15:14 paper in Nature that actually studied 15:14 paper in Nature that actually studied this. So, global workspace theory 15:16 this. So, global workspace theory 15:16 this. So, global workspace theory against integrated information theory. 15:18 against integrated information theory. 15:18 against integrated information theory. IIT which is another major theory of 15:21 IIT which is another major theory of 15:21 IIT which is another major theory of consciousness that places particular 15:23 consciousness that places particular 15:23 consciousness that places particular emphasis on a posterior cortical hot 15:25 emphasis on a posterior cortical hot 15:25 emphasis on a posterior cortical hot zone. So interestingly when they 15:28 zone. So interestingly when they 15:28 zone. So interestingly when they compared them neither theory actually 15:30 compared them neither theory actually 15:30 compared them neither theory actually fully worked in their models. So what 15:32 fully worked in their models. So what 15:32 fully worked in their models. So what they're expecting so either a 15:34 they're expecting so either a 15:34 they're expecting so either a characteristic global ignition including 15:37 characteristic global ignition including 15:37 characteristic global ignition including more likely frontal involvement that 15:39 more likely frontal involvement that 15:39 more likely frontal involvement that would point towards global workspace 15:41 would point towards global workspace 15:41 would point towards global workspace theory or a sustained posterior 15:44 theory or a sustained posterior 15:44 theory or a sustained posterior synchronization and communication to 15:46 synchronization and communication to 15:46 synchronization and communication to point towards the integrated information 15:48 point towards the integrated information 15:48 point towards the integrated information theory but neither actually happened. 15:51 theory but neither actually happened. 15:51 theory but neither actually happened. They did see some characteristics of 15:53 They did see some characteristics of 15:53 They did see some characteristics of both. But ultimately this paper 15:55 both. But ultimately this paper 15:55 both. But ultimately this paper concludes that still again we have no 15:56 concludes that still again we have no 15:56 concludes that still again we have no idea what creates consciousness and I 15:59 idea what creates consciousness and I 15:59 idea what creates consciousness and I think what happens during a psychedelic 16:01 think what happens during a psychedelic 16:01 think what happens during a psychedelic experience adds even more layers to 16:03 experience adds even more layers to 16:03 experience adds even more layers to this. So if we play a little bit with 16:05 this. So if we play a little bit with 16:05 this. So if we play a little bit with this global neuronal workspace theory a 16:07 this global neuronal workspace theory a 16:07 this global neuronal workspace theory a little and say okay yes partially 16:09 little and say okay yes partially 16:10 little and say okay yes partially consciousness depends on what 16:11 consciousness depends on what 16:11 consciousness depends on what information gets amplified then 16:13 information gets amplified then 16:13 information gets amplified then psychedelics really are actually 16:16 psychedelics really are actually 16:16 psychedelics really are actually changing the rules of this broadcasting. 16:18 changing the rules of this broadcasting. 16:18 changing the rules of this broadcasting. So networks that are normally fairly 16:21 So networks that are normally fairly 16:21 So networks that are normally fairly separate become less segregated and more 16:23 separate become less segregated and more 16:23 separate become less segregated and more information flows between them. So if 16:25 information flows between them. So if 16:25 information flows between them. So if that theory is correct, are psychedelics 16:28 that theory is correct, are psychedelics 16:28 that theory is correct, are psychedelics actually making us more conscious? So 16:31 actually making us more conscious? So 16:31 actually making us more conscious? So enter Aldias Huxley who is famous for 16:34 enter Aldias Huxley who is famous for 16:34 enter Aldias Huxley who is famous for writing one of the first major accounts 16:35 writing one of the first major accounts 16:35 writing one of the first major accounts of what it's subjectively like to take a 16:37 of what it's subjectively like to take a 16:37 of what it's subjectively like to take a psychedelic. So he actually proposed a 16:40 psychedelic. So he actually proposed a 16:40 psychedelic. So he actually proposed a theory that aligns with this before he 16:42 theory that aligns with this before he 16:42 theory that aligns with this before he even took a psychedelic at all. So he 16:44 even took a psychedelic at all. So he 16:44 even took a psychedelic at all. So he developed this idea of a quote unquote 16:47 developed this idea of a quote unquote 16:47 developed this idea of a quote unquote reducing valve which he did draw heavily 16:49 reducing valve which he did draw heavily 16:49 reducing valve which he did draw heavily from Henry Bergson and William James 16:52 from Henry Bergson and William James 16:52 from Henry Bergson and William James which essentially states that normal 16:54 which essentially states that normal 16:54 which essentially states that normal consciousness filters down an enormous 16:57 consciousness filters down an enormous 16:57 consciousness filters down an enormous amount of possible information and 16:59 amount of possible information and 16:59 amount of possible information and experience. But then after taking 17:01 experience. But then after taking 17:01 experience. But then after taking psychedelics he wondered whether the 17:04 psychedelics he wondered whether the 17:04 psychedelics he wondered whether the psychedelics temporarily allowed more of 17:06 psychedelics temporarily allowed more of 17:06 psychedelics temporarily allowed more of reality, what he called quote unquote 17:08 reality, what he called quote unquote 17:08 reality, what he called quote unquote the mind at large to come into conscious 17:10 the mind at large to come into conscious 17:10 the mind at large to come into conscious awareness. So a little bit older, 17:12 awareness. So a little bit older, 17:12 awareness. So a little bit older, definitely more of a theory. This 17:14 definitely more of a theory. This 17:14 definitely more of a theory. This actually does tie in quite nicely to our 17:17 actually does tie in quite nicely to our 17:17 actually does tie in quite nicely to our neuroscience understanding of what we 17:18 neuroscience understanding of what we 17:18 neuroscience understanding of what we call predictive processing. So again, 17:21 call predictive processing. So again, 17:21 call predictive processing. So again, this is a leading neuroscience framework 17:23 this is a leading neuroscience framework 17:23 this is a leading neuroscience framework proposing that we are not simply 17:24 proposing that we are not simply 17:24 proposing that we are not simply experiencing the world as a passive 17:27 experiencing the world as a passive 17:27 experiencing the world as a passive real-time recording. So our brains are 17:29 real-time recording. So our brains are 17:30 real-time recording. So our brains are constantly predicting what is out there 17:32 constantly predicting what is out there 17:32 constantly predicting what is out there and then comparing those predictions 17:34 and then comparing those predictions 17:34 and then comparing those predictions with information coming in and then 17:37 with information coming in and then 17:37 with information coming in and then constructing the most useful version of 17:39 constructing the most useful version of 17:39 constructing the most useful version of the world that we consciously 17:41 the world that we consciously 17:41 the world that we consciously experience. And anal has actually 17:42 experience. And anal has actually 17:42 experience. And anal has actually described this as a quote unquote 17:44 described this as a quote unquote 17:44 described this as a quote unquote controlled hallucination. So reality 17:47 controlled hallucination. So reality 17:47 controlled hallucination. So reality itself may actually be or at least what 17:49 itself may actually be or at least what 17:49 itself may actually be or at least what we perceive reality a controlled 17:51 we perceive reality a controlled 17:51 we perceive reality a controlled hallucination. So obviously psychedelics 17:54 hallucination. So obviously psychedelics 17:54 hallucination. So obviously psychedelics mess with those rules of construction. 17:55 mess with those rules of construction. 17:55 mess with those rules of construction. So we talked about that with the reebus 17:57 So we talked about that with the reebus 17:57 So we talked about that with the reebus model. So again, this essentially 17:59 model. So again, this essentially 17:59 model. So again, this essentially proposes that our brain gives less 18:00 proposes that our brain gives less 18:00 proposes that our brain gives less weight to our prior understanding of the 18:03 weight to our prior understanding of the 18:03 weight to our prior understanding of the world and more weight on the smaller 18:05 world and more weight on the smaller 18:05 world and more weight on the smaller things that we would normally filter 18:06 things that we would normally filter 18:06 things that we would normally filter out. That's why people experience seeing 18:08 out. That's why people experience seeing 18:08 out. That's why people experience seeing the world in more detailed. But what I 18:10 the world in more detailed. But what I 18:10 the world in more detailed. But what I do think throws a wrench in some of the 18:12 do think throws a wrench in some of the 18:12 do think throws a wrench in some of the idea of this quote unquote more 18:14 idea of this quote unquote more 18:14 idea of this quote unquote more information is allowed to come in thing 18:15 information is allowed to come in thing 18:16 information is allowed to come in thing is the DMT studies that were done when 18:18 is the DMT studies that were done when 18:18 is the DMT studies that were done when people's eyes were closed. So even with 18:21 people's eyes were closed. So even with 18:21 people's eyes were closed. So even with closed eyes, people experience 18:22 closed eyes, people experience 18:22 closed eyes, people experience incredibly vivid visuals. So that 18:25 incredibly vivid visuals. So that 18:25 incredibly vivid visuals. So that information is not necessarily coming 18:27 information is not necessarily coming 18:27 information is not necessarily coming from light entering the eyes from the 18:28 from light entering the eyes from the 18:28 from light entering the eyes from the outside world per se. I mean we do get 18:30 outside world per se. I mean we do get 18:30 outside world per se. I mean we do get some light coming in with our eyes are 18:32 some light coming in with our eyes are 18:32 some light coming in with our eyes are closed but it's not as much as our eyes 18:33 closed but it's not as much as our eyes 18:33 closed but it's not as much as our eyes open. So where is that information 18:35 open. So where is that information 18:36 open. So where is that information coming from? So maybe perhaps the brain 18:38 coming from? So maybe perhaps the brain 18:38 coming from? So maybe perhaps the brain is creating it like we create a dream or
Beyond the Brain: Alternative Consciousness Theories 18:41 is creating it like we create a dream or 18:41 is creating it like we create a dream or perhaps that conscious experience is 18:44 perhaps that conscious experience is 18:44 perhaps that conscious experience is coming from somewhere else. So we'll get 18:47 coming from somewhere else. So we'll get 18:47 coming from somewhere else. So we'll get back into DMT in a second here because 18:49 back into DMT in a second here because 18:49 back into DMT in a second here because there's so much interesting stuff there. 18:51 there's so much interesting stuff there. 18:51 there's so much interesting stuff there. But ultimately I think we can think 18:52 But ultimately I think we can think 18:52 But ultimately I think we can think about this question more broadly. What 18:55 about this question more broadly. What 18:55 about this question more broadly. What information is the brain constructing 18:57 information is the brain constructing 18:57 information is the brain constructing experience from? For both either normal 18:59 experience from? For both either normal 18:59 experience from? For both either normal quote unquote reality aka controlled 19:02 quote unquote reality aka controlled 19:02 quote unquote reality aka controlled hallucination if we do accept predictive 19:04 hallucination if we do accept predictive 19:04 hallucination if we do accept predictive processing theory which is a 19:05 processing theory which is a 19:05 processing theory which is a well-established theory or when we're 19:07 well-established theory or when we're 19:07 well-established theory or when we're taking a psychedelic and that gets 19:08 taking a psychedelic and that gets 19:08 taking a psychedelic and that gets completely altered. So that let's jump 19:11 completely altered. So that let's jump 19:11 completely altered. So that let's jump down that rabbit hole now and we will 19:13 down that rabbit hole now and we will 19:14 down that rabbit hole now and we will take a controlled descent. But fair 19:16 take a controlled descent. But fair 19:16 take a controlled descent. But fair warning we are going to go deep into 19:18 warning we are going to go deep into 19:18 warning we are going to go deep into some really interesting consciousness 19:19 some really interesting consciousness 19:20 some really interesting consciousness theories here. So we'll start with 19:22 theories here. So we'll start with 19:22 theories here. So we'll start with Donald Hoffman who takes a more 19:23 Donald Hoffman who takes a more 19:24 Donald Hoffman who takes a more evolutionary position to question what 19:26 evolutionary position to question what 19:26 evolutionary position to question what is consciousness? Why do we have 19:27 is consciousness? Why do we have 19:27 is consciousness? Why do we have consciousness? So he really asks why 19:30 consciousness? So he really asks why 19:30 consciousness? So he really asks why would evolution care whether we perceive 19:32 would evolution care whether we perceive 19:32 would evolution care whether we perceive reality accurately. 19:35 reality accurately. 19:35 reality accurately. Natural selection does not actually 19:36 Natural selection does not actually 19:36 Natural selection does not actually reward philosophical truth. It rewards 19:39 reward philosophical truth. It rewards 19:39 reward philosophical truth. It rewards survival and reproduction. So if seeing 19:41 survival and reproduction. So if seeing 19:41 survival and reproduction. So if seeing reality exactly as it is costs more 19:43 reality exactly as it is costs more 19:43 reality exactly as it is costs more energy, evolution should theoretically 19:46 energy, evolution should theoretically 19:46 energy, evolution should theoretically favor a simplified version. and also of 19:49 favor a simplified version. and also of 19:49 favor a simplified version. and also of course one that sort of evens out the 19:50 course one that sort of evens out the 19:50 course one that sort of evens out the playing field so that we're all 19:52 playing field so that we're all 19:52 playing field so that we're all experiencing the same reality. So of 19:54 experiencing the same reality. So of 19:54 experiencing the same reality. So of course we can interact with people in 19:55 course we can interact with people in 19:55 course we can interact with people in the way that we want to in ways that 19:57 the way that we want to in ways that 19:57 the way that we want to in ways that will allow us to reproduce. So Hoffman 19:59 will allow us to reproduce. So Hoffman 19:59 will allow us to reproduce. So Hoffman came up with this interface theory of 20:01 came up with this interface theory of 20:01 came up with this interface theory of perception to really explain this. And 20:03 perception to really explain this. And 20:03 perception to really explain this. And the easiest way that he explained this, 20:05 the easiest way that he explained this, 20:05 the easiest way that he explained this, which I think is a really cool way of 20:06 which I think is a really cool way of 20:06 which I think is a really cool way of explaining it, is to think about a 20:08 explaining it, is to think about a 20:08 explaining it, is to think about a computer desktop. So when you open a 20:11 computer desktop. So when you open a 20:11 computer desktop. So when you open a laptop and you see that little blue 20:12 laptop and you see that little blue 20:12 laptop and you see that little blue folder, it's obviously not actually a 20:15 folder, it's obviously not actually a 20:15 folder, it's obviously not actually a tiny blue folder that is physically 20:17 tiny blue folder that is physically 20:17 tiny blue folder that is physically sitting in the computer. So underneath 20:19 sitting in the computer. So underneath 20:19 sitting in the computer. So underneath that icon are electrical states, 20:21 that icon are electrical states, 20:21 that icon are electrical states, transistors, codes, and most of us, 20:23 transistors, codes, and most of us, 20:23 transistors, codes, and most of us, myself certainly included, have no idea 20:26 myself certainly included, have no idea 20:26 myself certainly included, have no idea how to actually interact with directly. 20:28 how to actually interact with directly. 20:28 how to actually interact with directly. So the blue folder is the interface. So 20:31 So the blue folder is the interface. So 20:31 So the blue folder is the interface. So Hoffman thinks that perception works in 20:33 Hoffman thinks that perception works in 20:33 Hoffman thinks that perception works in this exact same way. So why does this 20:36 this exact same way. So why does this 20:36 this exact same way. So why does this have to do with evolution? So he applied 20:39 have to do with evolution? So he applied 20:39 have to do with evolution? So he applied it to game theory to really understand 20:41 it to game theory to really understand 20:41 it to game theory to really understand this. So think about it this way. 20:44 this. So think about it this way. 20:44 this. So think about it this way. Instead of the players, which are 20:46 Instead of the players, which are 20:46 Instead of the players, which are organisms, consciously choosing a move, 20:49 organisms, consciously choosing a move, 20:49 organisms, consciously choosing a move, a quote unquote strategy, is actually an 20:51 a quote unquote strategy, is actually an 20:51 a quote unquote strategy, is actually an inherited behavioral or physical trait 20:53 inherited behavioral or physical trait 20:53 inherited behavioral or physical trait that maximizes survival of the fittest. 20:56 that maximizes survival of the fittest. 20:56 that maximizes survival of the fittest. So he called this fitness beats truth. 20:59 So he called this fitness beats truth. 20:59 So he called this fitness beats truth. And he actually built this crazy 21:00 And he actually built this crazy 21:00 And he actually built this crazy mathematical model on a computer 21:02 mathematical model on a computer 21:02 mathematical model on a computer simulator to actually test this out. So 21:04 simulator to actually test this out. So 21:04 simulator to actually test this out. So he had these different quote unquote 21:06 he had these different quote unquote 21:06 he had these different quote unquote organisms or players compete for 21:08 organisms or players compete for 21:08 organisms or players compete for resources. So, one type was rewarded for 21:11 resources. So, one type was rewarded for 21:11 resources. So, one type was rewarded for perceiving the actual state of the world 21:13 perceiving the actual state of the world 21:13 perceiving the actual state of the world as accurately as possible. And then 21:16 as accurately as possible. And then 21:16 as accurately as possible. And then another type did not actually care what 21:18 another type did not actually care what 21:18 another type did not actually care what was literally true. It only perceived 21:20 was literally true. It only perceived 21:20 was literally true. It only perceived things similar to those quote unquote 21:22 things similar to those quote unquote 21:22 things similar to those quote unquote folders on a desktop. So, for example, 21:24 folders on a desktop. So, for example, 21:24 folders on a desktop. So, for example, the more literal organism would see a 21:27 the more literal organism would see a 21:27 the more literal organism would see a bucket of water as 52 units, while the 21:30 bucket of water as 52 units, while the 21:30 bucket of water as 52 units, while the latter would just see good bucket. So he 21:33 latter would just see good bucket. So he 21:33 latter would just see good bucket. So he did all these simulations and over many 21:35 did all these simulations and over many 21:35 did all these simulations and over many simulated generations the latter out 21:38 simulated generations the latter out 21:38 simulated generations the latter out competed so chose the correct resource 21:40 competed so chose the correct resource 21:40 competed so chose the correct resource more correctly than its numerical 21:43 more correctly than its numerical 21:43 more correctly than its numerical counterpart. So categorizing quickly as 21:46 counterpart. So categorizing quickly as 21:46 counterpart. So categorizing quickly as good or bad allowed the simpler organism 21:49 good or bad allowed the simpler organism 21:49 good or bad allowed the simpler organism to gather the resource more efficiently 21:51 to gather the resource more efficiently 21:51 to gather the resource more efficiently and survived longer. So if we really 21:54 and survived longer. So if we really 21:54 and survived longer. So if we really take a step back the same themes remain 21:56 take a step back the same themes remain 21:56 take a step back the same themes remain when we look at all of what we have 21:57 when we look at all of what we have 21:57 when we look at all of what we have talked about so far. So I think we can 21:59 talked about so far. So I think we can 21:59 talked about so far. So I think we can all agree no one can really argue that 22:01 all agree no one can really argue that 22:01 all agree no one can really argue that we're not consciously aware of 22:03 we're not consciously aware of 22:03 we're not consciously aware of everything that is out there. So Huxley 22:05 everything that is out there. So Huxley 22:05 everything that is out there. So Huxley called this the reducing valve. Hoffman 22:07 called this the reducing valve. Hoffman 22:07 called this the reducing valve. Hoffman calls it interface. Predictive 22:09 calls it interface. Predictive 22:09 calls it interface. Predictive processing tells us that perception is 22:11 processing tells us that perception is 22:11 processing tells us that perception is an inference. Then we have the reebus 22:13 an inference. Then we have the reebus 22:13 an inference. Then we have the reebus model that tells us that psychedelics 22:15 model that tells us that psychedelics 22:15 model that tells us that psychedelics probably just mess with all of this in 22:16 probably just mess with all of this in 22:16 probably just mess with all of this in some way or another. So different 22:18 some way or another. So different 22:18 some way or another. So different theories, different claims, but they all 22:21 theories, different claims, but they all 22:21 theories, different claims, but they all do point us towards the same assumption. 22:23 do point us towards the same assumption. 22:23 do point us towards the same assumption. Regular human perception does not have a 22:26 Regular human perception does not have a 22:26 Regular human perception does not have a full view of reality. So again we go 22:28 full view of reality. So again we go 22:28 full view of reality. So again we go back to our question what exactly are 22:31 back to our question what exactly are 22:31 back to our question what exactly are psychedelics showing us. So possibility 22:34 psychedelics showing us. So possibility 22:34 psychedelics showing us. So possibility one hallucinations. So an interface 22:36 one hallucinations. So an interface 22:36 one hallucinations. So an interface glitch something that is not there that 22:39 glitch something that is not there that 22:39 glitch something that is not there that our brains just make up as psychedelics 22:41 our brains just make up as psychedelics 22:41 our brains just make up as psychedelics disrupt normal prediction and network 22:43 disrupt normal prediction and network 22:43 disrupt normal prediction and network organization. So plausible. Yes. 22:46 organization. So plausible. Yes. 22:46 organization. So plausible. Yes. Possibility two is that they may 22:48 Possibility two is that they may 22:48 Possibility two is that they may actually allow us to experience more 22:50 actually allow us to experience more 22:50 actually allow us to experience more parts of the machinery of our own 22:51 parts of the machinery of our own 22:52 parts of the machinery of our own interface that are normally hidden from 22:53 interface that are normally hidden from 22:53 interface that are normally hidden from consciousness. So we have more 22:56 consciousness. So we have more 22:56 consciousness. So we have more spontaneous brain activity, more 22:58 spontaneous brain activity, more 22:58 spontaneous brain activity, more interosception which is feeling things 23:00 interosception which is feeling things 23:00 interosception which is feeling things inside our own body, maybe more visual 23:02 inside our own body, maybe more visual 23:02 inside our own body, maybe more visual information. So again, yes, plausible. 23:04 information. So again, yes, plausible. 23:04 information. So again, yes, plausible. Or possibility three is that they 23:06 Or possibility three is that they 23:06 Or possibility three is that they actually are showing us something 23:08 actually are showing us something 23:08 actually are showing us something external to us that is real, but we 23:11 external to us that is real, but we 23:11 external to us that is real, but we can't normally see under normal waking 23:13 can't normally see under normal waking 23:13 can't normally see under normal waking consciousness. And that possibility 23:15 consciousness. And that possibility 23:15 consciousness. And that possibility three, which I think is the most 23:16 three, which I think is the most 23:16 three, which I think is the most fascinating one to think about, Hoffman 23:19 fascinating one to think about, Hoffman 23:19 fascinating one to think about, Hoffman is actually now digging into that third 23:21 is actually now digging into that third 23:21 is actually now digging into that third possibility. So this year 2026 he 23:25 possibility. So this year 2026 he 23:25 possibility. So this year 2026 he released a theoretical preprint with 23:27 released a theoretical preprint with 23:27 released a theoretical preprint with Andrew Galammore who is a neurobiologist 23:29 Andrew Galammore who is a neurobiologist 23:29 Andrew Galammore who is a neurobiologist and pharmarmacologist and ne Hermanson 23:31 and pharmarmacologist and ne Hermanson 23:31 and pharmarmacologist and ne Hermanson and they asked whether DMT may be 23:34 and they asked whether DMT may be 23:34 and they asked whether DMT may be messing with our interface enough that 23:36 messing with our interface enough that 23:36 messing with our interface enough that inaccessible conscious beings may 23:39 inaccessible conscious beings may 23:39 inaccessible conscious beings may actually be seen. Basically they're 23:41 actually be seen. Basically they're 23:41 actually be seen. Basically they're asking are these entities that people 23:44 asking are these entities that people 23:44 asking are these entities that people see on DMT real? And as of right now, 23:47 see on DMT real? And as of right now, 23:47 see on DMT real? And as of right now, they are very explicitly not saying that 23:49 they are very explicitly not saying that 23:49 they are very explicitly not saying that they have proven that these DMT entities 23:51 they have proven that these DMT entities 23:51 they have proven that these DMT entities are real, but they are looking into 23:54 are real, but they are looking into 23:54 are real, but they are looking into this. So again, we will get back to DMT 23:57 this. So again, we will get back to DMT 23:57 this. So again, we will get back to DMT in a minute here, but let's keep heading 23:59 in a minute here, but let's keep heading 23:59 in a minute here, but let's keep heading on down that rabbit hole a little bit 24:00 on down that rabbit hole a little bit 24:00 on down that rabbit hole a little bit deeper. So up to this point, we've 24:03 deeper. So up to this point, we've 24:03 deeper. So up to this point, we've explored the idea that consciousness may 24:05 explored the idea that consciousness may 24:05 explored the idea that consciousness may not actually emerge from inside our 24:07 not actually emerge from inside our 24:07 not actually emerge from inside our brains. And this idea has actually been 24:10 brains. And this idea has actually been 24:10 brains. And this idea has actually been around for quite a while. So pans 24:12 around for quite a while. So pans 24:12 around for quite a while. So pans psychism associated with philosophers 24:14 psychism associated with philosophers 24:14 psychism associated with philosophers like Philip Goff proposes that 24:16 like Philip Goff proposes that 24:16 like Philip Goff proposes that consciousness is actually a fundamental 24:19 consciousness is actually a fundamental 24:19 consciousness is actually a fundamental feature of reality rather than something 24:21 feature of reality rather than something 24:21 feature of reality rather than something that just magically pops into existence 24:23 that just magically pops into existence 24:23 that just magically pops into existence once a brain becomes complicated enough 24:25 once a brain becomes complicated enough 24:25 once a brain becomes complicated enough to produce it. So this basically was a 24:28 to produce it. So this basically was a 24:28 to produce it. So this basically was a reaction to the idea of physicalism 24:31 reaction to the idea of physicalism 24:31 reaction to the idea of physicalism which again is that consciousness is 24:32 which again is that consciousness is 24:32 which again is that consciousness is formed from purely physical materials. 24:35 formed from purely physical materials. 24:35 formed from purely physical materials. So evolutionarily for physicalism to be 24:38 So evolutionarily for physicalism to be 24:38 So evolutionarily for physicalism to be true that would mean that consciousness 24:41 true that would mean that consciousness 24:41 true that would mean that consciousness eventually evolved as neurons, brains 24:44 eventually evolved as neurons, brains 24:44 eventually evolved as neurons, brains and the bodies became more complex 24:46 and the bodies became more complex 24:46 and the bodies became more complex enough to develop consciousness. But the 24:49 enough to develop consciousness. But the 24:49 enough to develop consciousness. But the pansychist will say okay but still how 24:53 pansychist will say okay but still how 24:53 pansychist will say okay but still how if the fundamental building blocks of 24:55 if the fundamental building blocks of 24:56 if the fundamental building blocks of reality contain absolutely nothing 24:58 reality contain absolutely nothing 24:58 reality contain absolutely nothing experiential whatsoever, how does 25:00 experiential whatsoever, how does 25:00 experiential whatsoever, how does arranging enough of them together 25:02 arranging enough of them together 25:02 arranging enough of them together suddenly create experience? So instead 25:06 suddenly create experience? So instead 25:06 suddenly create experience? So instead of trying to derive consciousness from 25:08 of trying to derive consciousness from 25:08 of trying to derive consciousness from completely non-concious ingredients, 25:11 completely non-concious ingredients, 25:11 completely non-concious ingredients, pansychism puts some primitive 25:13 pansychism puts some primitive 25:13 pansychism puts some primitive experiential property into reality from 25:16 experiential property into reality from 25:16 experiential property into reality from the very beginning. So interesting, but 25:19 the very beginning. So interesting, but 25:19 the very beginning. So interesting, but then that creates another question. 25:22 then that creates another question. 25:22 then that creates another question. If all of the fundamental pieces of 25:24 If all of the fundamental pieces of 25:24 If all of the fundamental pieces of reality do actually have tiny primitive 25:27 reality do actually have tiny primitive 25:27 reality do actually have tiny primitive forms of experience or consciousness, 25:31 forms of experience or consciousness, 25:31 forms of experience or consciousness, how do trillions of those little 25:32 how do trillions of those little 25:32 how do trillions of those little experiences combine and actually form me 25:35 experiences combine and actually form me 25:35 experiences combine and actually form me or you? So from that then enter cosmos 25:38 or you? So from that then enter cosmos 25:38 or you? So from that then enter cosmos psychism. So the idea that the universe 25:41 psychism. So the idea that the universe 25:41 psychism. So the idea that the universe itself is actually the fundamental 25:44 itself is actually the fundamental 25:44 itself is actually the fundamental conscious whole and then individual 25:46 conscious whole and then individual 25:46 conscious whole and then individual consciousnesses are derived and 25:49 consciousnesses are derived and 25:49 consciousnesses are derived and partitioned out of that larger 25:50 partitioned out of that larger 25:50 partitioned out of that larger consciousness. So this is talked a lot 25:52 consciousness. So this is talked a lot 25:52 consciousness. So this is talked a lot about in spiritual and religious 25:54 about in spiritual and religious 25:54 about in spiritual and religious communities and interestingly enough 25:56 communities and interestingly enough 25:56 communities and interestingly enough people repeatedly experience a version 25:59 people repeatedly experience a version 25:59 people repeatedly experience a version of this when they take a psychedelic. So 26:02 of this when they take a psychedelic. So 26:02 of this when they take a psychedelic. So one of the most common features of a 26:04 one of the most common features of a 26:04 one of the most common features of a highdosese psychedelic trip is 26:06 highdosese psychedelic trip is 26:06 highdosese psychedelic trip is experiencing a loss of the boundary 26:08 experiencing a loss of the boundary 26:08 experiencing a loss of the boundary between self and everything else. So 26:11 between self and everything else. So 26:11 between self and everything else. So people describe merging with the 26:13 people describe merging with the 26:13 people describe merging with the universe or becoming one with nature 26:15 universe or becoming one with nature 26:15 universe or becoming one with nature which very much aligns with that idea of 26:18 which very much aligns with that idea of 26:18 which very much aligns with that idea of consciousness. But then we can go even 26:21 consciousness. But then we can go even 26:21 consciousness. But then we can go even deeper and talk about quantum 26:23 deeper and talk about quantum 26:23 deeper and talk about quantum consciousness. So this one's a little 26:25 consciousness. So this one's a little 26:25 consciousness. So this one's a little bit more controversial, but Roger 26:27 bit more controversial, but Roger 26:27 bit more controversial, but Roger Penrose, who is a mathematical 26:29 Penrose, who is a mathematical 26:29 Penrose, who is a mathematical physicist, and Stuart Hammerhoff, who is 26:32 physicist, and Stuart Hammerhoff, who is 26:32 physicist, and Stuart Hammerhoff, who is an anesthesiologist, which side note, I 26:34 an anesthesiologist, which side note, I 26:34 an anesthesiologist, which side note, I think anesthesiologists probably have 26:36 think anesthesiologists probably have 26:36 think anesthesiologists probably have the most interesting thoughts about 26:38 the most interesting thoughts about 26:38 the most interesting thoughts about consciousness because they're literally 26:39 consciousness because they're literally 26:39 consciousness because they're literally putting people to sleep and waking them 26:40 putting people to sleep and waking them 26:40 putting people to sleep and waking them up all day long, but besides the point. 26:42 up all day long, but besides the point. 26:42 up all day long, but besides the point. So anyways, Penrose and Hammerhoff 26:45 So anyways, Penrose and Hammerhoff 26:45 So anyways, Penrose and Hammerhoff developed a theory that consciousness is 26:47 developed a theory that consciousness is 26:47 developed a theory that consciousness is actually produced via quantum processes 26:50 actually produced via quantum processes 26:50 actually produced via quantum processes inside microtubules, which are the tiny 26:53 inside microtubules, which are the tiny 26:53 inside microtubules, which are the tiny protein structures inside of neurons. So 26:56 protein structures inside of neurons. So 26:56 protein structures inside of neurons. So this is definitely one of the more wild 26:58 this is definitely one of the more wild 26:58 this is definitely one of the more wild theories out there, but Hammeroff again 27:00 theories out there, but Hammeroff again 27:00 theories out there, but Hammeroff again being an anesthesiologist wanted to see 27:02 being an anesthesiologist wanted to see 27:02 being an anesthesiologist wanted to see if anesthesia interfered with the 27:05 if anesthesia interfered with the 27:05 if anesthesia interfered with the microtubial processes that he thinks are 27:07 microtubial processes that he thinks are 27:08 microtubial processes that he thinks are actually involved in consciousness. And 27:10 actually involved in consciousness. And 27:10 actually involved in consciousness. And it turns out that stabilizing those 27:13 it turns out that stabilizing those 27:13 it turns out that stabilizing those microtubules in a 2026 mouse study did 27:17 microtubules in a 2026 mouse study did 27:17 microtubules in a 2026 mouse study did actually change the sensitivity that the 27:19 actually change the sensitivity that the 27:19 actually change the sensitivity that the mice had two inhaled anesthetics. 27:22 mice had two inhaled anesthetics. 27:22 mice had two inhaled anesthetics. So very interesting does not prove 27:25 So very interesting does not prove 27:25 So very interesting does not prove quantum consciousness over just a 27:27 quantum consciousness over just a 27:27 quantum consciousness over just a neurobiological understanding of 27:29 neurobiological understanding of 27:29 neurobiological understanding of consciousness, but so fascinating to 27:32 consciousness, but so fascinating to 27:32 consciousness, but so fascinating to think about. Then another theory that 27:34 think about. Then another theory that 27:34 think about. Then another theory that sounds equally as strange but is 27:36 sounds equally as strange but is 27:36 sounds equally as strange but is actually much more physically 27:38 actually much more physically 27:38 actually much more physically straightforward is electromagnetic field 27:40 straightforward is electromagnetic field 27:40 straightforward is electromagnetic field theories of consciousness. So every 27:42 theories of consciousness. So every 27:42 theories of consciousness. So every neuron communicates electrically and 27:45 neuron communicates electrically and 27:45 neuron communicates electrically and electrical currents generate 27:47 electrical currents generate 27:47 electrical currents generate electromagnetic fields. So your brain is 27:50 electromagnetic fields. So your brain is 27:50 electromagnetic fields. So your brain is actually continuously producing a 27:52 actually continuously producing a 27:52 actually continuously producing a complex electromagnetic field. So we 27:55 complex electromagnetic field. So we 27:55 complex electromagnetic field. So we quite literally measure this with EEGs. 27:58 quite literally measure this with EEGs. 27:58 quite literally measure this with EEGs. So the thought is that the patterns of 28:00 So the thought is that the patterns of 28:00 So the thought is that the patterns of these fields is actually what is 28:02 these fields is actually what is 28:02 these fields is actually what is corresponding to the actual experience 28:04 corresponding to the actual experience 28:04 corresponding to the actual experience of consciousness 28:06 of consciousness 28:06 of consciousness and bringing in psychedelics again they 28:08 and bringing in psychedelics again they 28:08 and bringing in psychedelics again they profoundly change coordinated electrical 28:11 profoundly change coordinated electrical 28:11 profoundly change coordinated electrical activity within the brain and again we 28:13 activity within the brain and again we 28:13 activity within the brain and again we quite literally see this with EEGs. So 28:16 quite literally see this with EEGs. So 28:16 quite literally see this with EEGs. So interesting we're going to go a little 28:18 interesting we're going to go a little 28:18 interesting we're going to go a little bit deeper into these consciousness 28:20 bit deeper into these consciousness 28:20 bit deeper into these consciousness theories and I promise we are almost 28:21 theories and I promise we are almost 28:21 theories and I promise we are almost done but we have to talk about Rupert 28:24 done but we have to talk about Rupert 28:24 done but we have to talk about Rupert Sheldrake's idea of morphic resonance. 28:27 Sheldrake's idea of morphic resonance. 28:28 Sheldrake's idea of morphic resonance. So he hypothesizes that information is 28:30 So he hypothesizes that information is 28:30 So he hypothesizes that information is not stored only inside an individual 28:32 not stored only inside an individual 28:32 not stored only inside an individual organism but rather inside nature more 28:36 organism but rather inside nature more 28:36 organism but rather inside nature more broadly as this kind of collective
DMT, Entities, and Altered Reality 28:38 broadly as this kind of collective 28:38 broadly as this kind of collective memory. So completely taking 28:41 memory. So completely taking 28:41 memory. So completely taking consciousness outside of the brain or 28:42 consciousness outside of the brain or 28:42 consciousness outside of the brain or the body itself. So wild how did he get 28:45 the body itself. So wild how did he get 28:45 the body itself. So wild how did he get here? So one way is that he thought 28:48 here? So one way is that he thought 28:48 here? So one way is that he thought about the fact that there are different 28:49 about the fact that there are different 28:49 about the fact that there are different patterns of ideas in life. So this 28:52 patterns of ideas in life. So this 28:52 patterns of ideas in life. So this becomes a little bit more tangible if we 28:53 becomes a little bit more tangible if we 28:53 becomes a little bit more tangible if we think about how humans developed as a 28:55 think about how humans developed as a 28:55 think about how humans developed as a species across the development of 28:58 species across the development of 28:58 species across the development of civilization. 29:00 civilization. 29:00 civilization. So once a pattern is established then 29:02 So once a pattern is established then 29:02 So once a pattern is established then it's more likely to present itself to 29:04 it's more likely to present itself to 29:04 it's more likely to present itself to beings that can tap into that 29:05 beings that can tap into that 29:05 beings that can tap into that consciousness. So this is most obvious 29:08 consciousness. So this is most obvious 29:08 consciousness. So this is most obvious when we think about this idea of 29:10 when we think about this idea of 29:10 when we think about this idea of independent discovery throughout 29:11 independent discovery throughout 29:11 independent discovery throughout history. So scientists, leaders, 29:14 history. So scientists, leaders, 29:14 history. So scientists, leaders, adventors across time have arrived at 29:17 adventors across time have arrived at 29:17 adventors across time have arrived at remarkably similar ideas at roughly the 29:20 remarkably similar ideas at roughly the 29:20 remarkably similar ideas at roughly the same time without any known direct 29:23 same time without any known direct 29:23 same time without any known direct communication. So Darwin and Wallace 29:27 communication. So Darwin and Wallace 29:27 communication. So Darwin and Wallace independently arrived at the idea of 29:29 independently arrived at the idea of 29:29 independently arrived at the idea of natural selection without communicating. 29:31 natural selection without communicating. 29:31 natural selection without communicating. And one argument to that is yes, people 29:33 And one argument to that is yes, people 29:33 And one argument to that is yes, people living in the same era had access to 29:35 living in the same era had access to 29:35 living in the same era had access to similar knowledge, technology, and 29:37 similar knowledge, technology, and 29:37 similar knowledge, technology, and problems. But Sheldrake postulates that 29:41 problems. But Sheldrake postulates that 29:41 problems. But Sheldrake postulates that what if there is this some kind of 29:43 what if there is this some kind of 29:43 what if there is this some kind of sharedformational field that people are 29:46 sharedformational field that people are 29:46 sharedformational field that people are actually unknowingly tapping into. And 29:49 actually unknowingly tapping into. And 29:49 actually unknowingly tapping into. And psychedelics actually appear to present 29:51 psychedelics actually appear to present 29:51 psychedelics actually appear to present a similar inquiry into all of this. So 29:54 a similar inquiry into all of this. So 29:54 a similar inquiry into all of this. So across time, people who have never met 29:56 across time, people who have never met 29:56 across time, people who have never met one another report surprisingly 29:59 one another report surprisingly 29:59 one another report surprisingly recurrent psychedelic imagery. So 30:01 recurrent psychedelic imagery. So 30:01 recurrent psychedelic imagery. So geometric patterns, archetypal figures, 30:04 geometric patterns, archetypal figures, 30:04 geometric patterns, archetypal figures, and things that have all influenced art 30:06 and things that have all influenced art 30:06 and things that have all influenced art in different cultures across time. So 30:08 in different cultures across time. So 30:08 in different cultures across time. So this is kind of similar to the idea of 30:10 this is kind of similar to the idea of 30:10 this is kind of similar to the idea of Jung's idea of the collective 30:12 Jung's idea of the collective 30:12 Jung's idea of the collective unconscious, which I think is so 30:15 unconscious, which I think is so 30:15 unconscious, which I think is so fascinating. So he ended up working with 30:17 fascinating. So he ended up working with 30:17 fascinating. So he ended up working with patients with schizophrenia pretty early 30:18 patients with schizophrenia pretty early 30:18 patients with schizophrenia pretty early in his career and then became fascinated 30:20 in his career and then became fascinated 30:20 in his career and then became fascinated by the reoccurring archetypal themes and 30:23 by the reoccurring archetypal themes and 30:23 by the reoccurring archetypal themes and symbols that these patients reported 30:25 symbols that these patients reported 30:25 symbols that these patients reported that he later compared with myths and 30:27 that he later compared with myths and 30:27 that he later compared with myths and ancient texts from different cultures 30:29 ancient texts from different cultures 30:29 ancient texts from different cultures across time. So if you have not read the 30:32 across time. So if you have not read the 30:32 across time. So if you have not read the red book that he wrote, definitely dive 30:34 red book that he wrote, definitely dive 30:34 red book that he wrote, definitely dive into it because it is completely 30:36 into it because it is completely 30:36 into it because it is completely fascinating. And he actually details so 30:38 fascinating. And he actually details so 30:38 fascinating. And he actually details so later in his life and his career he 30:40 later in his life and his career he 30:40 later in his life and his career he deliberately engaged in his own vivid 30:44 deliberately engaged in his own vivid 30:44 deliberately engaged in his own vivid fantasies and visions that were very 30:47 fantasies and visions that were very 30:47 fantasies and visions that were very schizophrenic like that he was able to 30:49 schizophrenic like that he was able to 30:49 schizophrenic like that he was able to enter enter and leave them at will. So 30:51 enter enter and leave them at will. So 30:51 enter enter and leave them at will. So not schizophrenic but all very 30:53 not schizophrenic but all very 30:53 not schizophrenic but all very interesting. So all of this together 30:55 interesting. So all of this together 30:55 interesting. So all of this together Yung's idea what we just talked about 30:58 Yung's idea what we just talked about 30:58 Yung's idea what we just talked about really ties into one of the final 31:00 really ties into one of the final 31:00 really ties into one of the final consciousness theories ideas I'm going 31:02 consciousness theories ideas I'm going 31:02 consciousness theories ideas I'm going to bring up but that is the transmission 31:04 to bring up but that is the transmission 31:04 to bring up but that is the transmission theory of consciousness. So this idea 31:07 theory of consciousness. So this idea 31:07 theory of consciousness. So this idea and again this one is very much a theory 31:09 and again this one is very much a theory 31:10 and again this one is very much a theory is that instead of the brain producing 31:12 is that instead of the brain producing 31:12 is that instead of the brain producing consciousness, 31:13 consciousness, 31:14 consciousness, consciousness actually exists 31:16 consciousness actually exists 31:16 consciousness actually exists independently 31:17 independently 31:17 independently and the brain is merely a receiver. So 31:19 and the brain is merely a receiver. So 31:20 and the brain is merely a receiver. So kind of like a radio and brain 31:21 kind of like a radio and brain 31:21 kind of like a radio and brain dependence alone does not actually tell 31:24 dependence alone does not actually tell 31:24 dependence alone does not actually tell us whether the brain produces 31:26 us whether the brain produces 31:26 us whether the brain produces consciousness or it merely modulates it. 31:30 consciousness or it merely modulates it. 31:30 consciousness or it merely modulates it. So think about this way. If we damage 31:31 So think about this way. If we damage 31:31 So think about this way. If we damage the radio, the music gets distorted. If 31:34 the radio, the music gets distorted. If 31:34 the radio, the music gets distorted. If we completely destroy the radio, the 31:36 we completely destroy the radio, the 31:36 we completely destroy the radio, the music stops. Those two things does not 31:39 music stops. Those two things does not 31:39 music stops. Those two things does not mean that the music originated inside 31:42 mean that the music originated inside 31:42 mean that the music originated inside the radio. So, the same could be true of 31:45 the radio. So, the same could be true of 31:45 the radio. So, the same could be true of our brain. Again, completely a theory, 31:47 our brain. Again, completely a theory, 31:47 our brain. Again, completely a theory, but I think that one is so fascinating 31:49 but I think that one is so fascinating 31:49 but I think that one is so fascinating to think about. And we certainly know 31:52 to think about. And we certainly know 31:52 to think about. And we certainly know that psychedelics change the filtering 31:54 that psychedelics change the filtering 31:54 that psychedelics change the filtering and tuning mechanisms of the brain. So, 31:56 and tuning mechanisms of the brain. So, 31:56 and tuning mechanisms of the brain. So, could psychedelics be altering the 31:58 could psychedelics be altering the 31:58 could psychedelics be altering the receiver itself if this theory is indeed 32:01 receiver itself if this theory is indeed 32:01 receiver itself if this theory is indeed true? So all so interesting, but for a 32:05 true? So all so interesting, but for a 32:05 true? So all so interesting, but for a second here, we're going to dig out of 32:06 second here, we're going to dig out of 32:06 second here, we're going to dig out of the rabbit holes just a little bit 32:07 the rabbit holes just a little bit 32:07 the rabbit holes just a little bit before we get into the DNT rabbit holes 32:10 before we get into the DNT rabbit holes 32:10 before we get into the DNT rabbit holes and think again about the larger 32:12 and think again about the larger 32:12 and think again about the larger question at hand. Do psychedelics show 32:15 question at hand. Do psychedelics show 32:15 question at hand. Do psychedelics show us more of reality rather than a 32:18 us more of reality rather than a 32:18 us more of reality rather than a hallucination? So again, we know that 32:20 hallucination? So again, we know that 32:20 hallucination? So again, we know that ordinary perception is filtered. We know 32:23 ordinary perception is filtered. We know 32:23 ordinary perception is filtered. We know that psychedelics loosen those filters 32:25 that psychedelics loosen those filters 32:25 that psychedelics loosen those filters and they appear to allow more internally 32:27 and they appear to allow more internally 32:28 and they appear to allow more internally generated information through and 32:30 generated information through and 32:30 generated information through and potentially more external sensory 32:31 potentially more external sensory 32:31 potentially more external sensory information to reach conscious awareness 32:33 information to reach conscious awareness 32:33 information to reach conscious awareness as well. And we still do not know if 32:35 as well. And we still do not know if 32:35 as well. And we still do not know if consciousness is actually a physical 32:37 consciousness is actually a physical 32:37 consciousness is actually a physical phenomenon that is produced in the 32:39 phenomenon that is produced in the 32:39 phenomenon that is produced in the brain. That part is actually still a 32:41 brain. That part is actually still a 32:41 brain. That part is actually still a mystery even though there's 32:42 mystery even though there's 32:42 mystery even though there's postulations. 32:44 postulations. 32:44 postulations. So if we do actually entertain some of 32:46 So if we do actually entertain some of 32:46 So if we do actually entertain some of these more quote unquote wild 32:48 these more quote unquote wild 32:48 these more quote unquote wild consciousness theories out there. So if 32:51 consciousness theories out there. So if 32:51 consciousness theories out there. So if consciousness truly is a field or is 32:53 consciousness truly is a field or is 32:53 consciousness truly is a field or is shared and then transmitted into the 32:55 shared and then transmitted into the 32:55 shared and then transmitted into the brain, then perhaps psychedelics really 32:58 brain, then perhaps psychedelics really 32:58 brain, then perhaps psychedelics really are changing how we tap into this 33:00 are changing how we tap into this 33:00 are changing how we tap into this consciousness or this quote unquote 33:02 consciousness or this quote unquote 33:02 consciousness or this quote unquote reality. But then of course we have to 33:04 reality. But then of course we have to 33:04 reality. But then of course we have to ask what is reality? And maybe reality 33:08 ask what is reality? And maybe reality 33:08 ask what is reality? And maybe reality actually is what we do collectively 33:10 actually is what we do collectively 33:10 actually is what we do collectively agree upon. So if that is the case then 33:13 agree upon. So if that is the case then 33:13 agree upon. So if that is the case then sure what psychedelics show us is not 33:15 sure what psychedelics show us is not 33:15 sure what psychedelics show us is not reality cuz it's not what we're all 33:16 reality cuz it's not what we're all 33:16 reality cuz it's not what we're all agreeing upon. But are they showing us 33:20 agreeing upon. But are they showing us 33:20 agreeing upon. But are they showing us more of what is actually out there? So 33:23 more of what is actually out there? So 33:23 more of what is actually out there? So now this finally leads us directly into 33:26 now this finally leads us directly into 33:26 now this finally leads us directly into DMT. So DMT is one of the classic 33:29 DMT. So DMT is one of the classic 33:29 DMT. So DMT is one of the classic psychedelics and it's actually one of 33:30 psychedelics and it's actually one of 33:30 psychedelics and it's actually one of the active ingredients in iawaska and 33:33 the active ingredients in iawaska and 33:33 the active ingredients in iawaska and it's also the psychedelic that is 33:35 it's also the psychedelic that is 33:35 it's also the psychedelic that is classically associated with people 33:37 classically associated with people 33:37 classically associated with people actually experiencing and seeing 33:39 actually experiencing and seeing 33:39 actually experiencing and seeing external beings. So people report elves, 33:42 external beings. So people report elves, 33:42 external beings. So people report elves, gnomes, other little beings that they 33:44 gnomes, other little beings that they 33:44 gnomes, other little beings that they report as feeling realer than real. So 33:47 report as feeling realer than real. So 33:47 report as feeling realer than real. So backing up just a little bit, DMT is one 33:50 backing up just a little bit, DMT is one 33:50 backing up just a little bit, DMT is one of the classic psychedelics, so acts on 33:52 of the classic psychedelics, so acts on 33:52 of the classic psychedelics, so acts on the serotonin 2a receptor and a lot of 33:54 the serotonin 2a receptor and a lot of 33:54 the serotonin 2a receptor and a lot of people actually also describe it as the 33:56 people actually also describe it as the 33:56 people actually also describe it as the spirit molecule because it's actually 33:58 spirit molecule because it's actually 33:58 spirit molecule because it's actually been detected naturally in the human 34:00 been detected naturally in the human 34:00 been detected naturally in the human body. And there's this very popular 34:02 body. And there's this very popular 34:02 body. And there's this very popular theory that it is thought to be released 34:04 theory that it is thought to be released 34:04 theory that it is thought to be released from our pineal gland when we die or 34:07 from our pineal gland when we die or 34:07 from our pineal gland when we die or have a near-death experience. And I will 34:09 have a near-death experience. And I will 34:09 have a near-death experience. And I will clearly state this is actually a 34:10 clearly state this is actually a 34:10 clearly state this is actually a speculation. It is not proven despite 34:12 speculation. It is not proven despite 34:12 speculation. It is not proven despite how people describe it online. So we 34:14 how people describe it online. So we 34:14 how people describe it online. So we don't know yet. But going back to DMT, 34:17 don't know yet. But going back to DMT, 34:17 don't know yet. But going back to DMT, when people actually take DMT, the 34:19 when people actually take DMT, the 34:19 when people actually take DMT, the reports of what people experience are so 34:21 reports of what people experience are so 34:21 reports of what people experience are so vivid, frequent, and consistent amongst 34:24 vivid, frequent, and consistent amongst 34:24 vivid, frequent, and consistent amongst users that now major universities are 34:27 users that now major universities are 34:27 users that now major universities are actually starting to study them. So,
Indigenous Traditions and Psychedelic Meaning 34:29 actually starting to study them. So, 34:29 actually starting to study them. So, John's Hopkins actually published a 34:30 John's Hopkins actually published a 34:30 John's Hopkins actually published a survey study in 2020 and looked at over 34:33 survey study in 2020 and looked at over 34:33 survey study in 2020 and looked at over 200 people who experienced seeing an 34:36 200 people who experienced seeing an 34:36 200 people who experienced seeing an autonomous entity on DMT. And no 34:39 autonomous entity on DMT. And no 34:39 autonomous entity on DMT. And no surprise, they found remarkably 34:41 surprise, they found remarkably 34:41 surprise, they found remarkably consistent themes. So these entities 34:44 consistent themes. So these entities 34:44 consistent themes. So these entities were usually experienced as conscious 34:46 were usually experienced as conscious 34:46 were usually experienced as conscious intelligent 34:48 intelligent 34:48 intelligent and communication with these beings was 34:50 and communication with these beings was 34:50 and communication with these beings was actually pretty common and again people 34:52 actually pretty common and again people 34:52 actually pretty common and again people described these encounters as feeling 34:54 described these encounters as feeling 34:54 described these encounters as feeling more real than ordinary waking life. 34:57 more real than ordinary waking life. 34:57 more real than ordinary waking life. Then there was a 2021 naturalistic study 35:00 Then there was a 2021 naturalistic study 35:00 Then there was a 2021 naturalistic study led by the University of Greenwitch 35:01 led by the University of Greenwitch 35:01 led by the University of Greenwitch Imperial College of London affiliation 35:03 Imperial College of London affiliation 35:03 Imperial College of London affiliation that took it a step further. So they 35:06 that took it a step further. So they 35:06 that took it a step further. So they actually interviewed people immediately 35:08 actually interviewed people immediately 35:08 actually interviewed people immediately following a DMT experience. So this 35:11 following a DMT experience. So this 35:11 following a DMT experience. So this study was much smaller, 36 people in 35:13 study was much smaller, 36 people in 35:13 study was much smaller, 36 people in total, but 94% of them reported 35:16 total, but 94% of them reported 35:16 total, but 94% of them reported experiencing these entities. And then 35:19 experiencing these entities. And then 35:19 experiencing these entities. And then this year again June 2026, a paper was 35:22 this year again June 2026, a paper was 35:22 this year again June 2026, a paper was published in neuroscience of 35:23 published in neuroscience of 35:23 published in neuroscience of consciousness that asked whether 35:25 consciousness that asked whether 35:25 consciousness that asked whether conventional predictive processing which 35:27 conventional predictive processing which 35:27 conventional predictive processing which we explored earlier and again is a more 35:30 we explored earlier and again is a more 35:30 we explored earlier and again is a more widely accepted neuroscience explanation 35:33 widely accepted neuroscience explanation 35:33 widely accepted neuroscience explanation of how we experience the world. So they 35:35 of how we experience the world. So they 35:35 of how we experience the world. So they asked could predictive processing 35:37 asked could predictive processing 35:37 asked could predictive processing generate something that feels 35:39 generate something that feels 35:39 generate something that feels autonomous, intelligent, external and 35:42 autonomous, intelligent, external and 35:42 autonomous, intelligent, external and real. So could this happen with our 35:44 real. So could this happen with our 35:44 real. So could this happen with our current modern neuroscience 35:46 current modern neuroscience 35:46 current modern neuroscience understanding of consciousness? So 35:48 understanding of consciousness? So 35:48 understanding of consciousness? So basically they took a neuroscience 35:50 basically they took a neuroscience 35:50 basically they took a neuroscience explanation. So they wanted to look into 35:52 explanation. So they wanted to look into 35:52 explanation. So they wanted to look into these DMT entities and the paper was 35:55 these DMT entities and the paper was 35:55 these DMT entities and the paper was titled computational spirits a 35:57 titled computational spirits a 35:57 titled computational spirits a neuroscientific account of psychedelic 35:59 neuroscientific account of psychedelic 35:59 neuroscientific account of psychedelic entity encounters. So they looked at all 36:01 entity encounters. So they looked at all 36:01 entity encounters. So they looked at all of the DMT studies and all the prior 36:03 of the DMT studies and all the prior 36:03 of the DMT studies and all the prior studies that explain what we know about 36:05 studies that explain what we know about 36:05 studies that explain what we know about psychedelics particularly the reebus 36:07 psychedelics particularly the reebus 36:08 psychedelics particularly the reebus model which we talked about and then 36:09 model which we talked about and then 36:09 model which we talked about and then built this theoretical synthesis. So 36:12 built this theoretical synthesis. So 36:12 built this theoretical synthesis. So here is the proposed mechanism that they 36:14 here is the proposed mechanism that they 36:14 here is the proposed mechanism that they came up with. First DMT does stabilize 36:17 came up with. First DMT does stabilize 36:17 came up with. First DMT does stabilize our normal top- down model of reality. 36:19 our normal top- down model of reality. 36:19 our normal top- down model of reality. So again going back to that predictive 36:21 So again going back to that predictive 36:21 So again going back to that predictive processing and reebus model. So 36:23 processing and reebus model. So 36:23 processing and reebus model. So information that would normally get 36:25 information that would normally get 36:25 information that would normally get suppressed or ignored whether that 36:27 suppressed or ignored whether that 36:27 suppressed or ignored whether that information is coming from sensory 36:29 information is coming from sensory 36:29 information is coming from sensory input, our imagination, memory, 36:31 input, our imagination, memory, 36:31 input, our imagination, memory, unconscious, mind, body, whatever it may 36:33 unconscious, mind, body, whatever it may 36:33 unconscious, mind, body, whatever it may be, then that can that information can 36:37 be, then that can that information can 36:37 be, then that can that information can suddenly become more prominent into our 36:39 suddenly become more prominent into our 36:39 suddenly become more prominent into our conscious awareness. So again, the real 36:42 conscious awareness. So again, the real 36:42 conscious awareness. So again, the real question is where is the information for 36:44 question is where is the information for 36:44 question is where is the information for these supposedly autonomous beings 36:47 these supposedly autonomous beings 36:47 these supposedly autonomous beings actually coming from? So the authors 36:49 actually coming from? So the authors 36:49 actually coming from? So the authors postulate using a term they call 36:51 postulate using a term they call 36:51 postulate using a term they call epistemic. So imagine you're looking at 36:53 epistemic. So imagine you're looking at 36:53 epistemic. So imagine you're looking at some random static on a TV and then 36:56 some random static on a TV and then 36:56 some random static on a TV and then compare how that feels to what it feels 36:58 compare how that feels to what it feels 36:58 compare how that feels to what it feels like to have a conversation with another 37:00 like to have a conversation with another 37:00 like to have a conversation with another person in real life. So the other person 37:02 person in real life. So the other person 37:02 person in real life. So the other person is saying things that you did not 37:04 is saying things that you did not 37:04 is saying things that you did not predict in your mind. This other person 37:06 predict in your mind. This other person 37:06 predict in your mind. This other person is responding to you. They have their 37:08 is responding to you. They have their 37:08 is responding to you. They have their own intentions and they have a mind that 37:11 own intentions and they have a mind that 37:11 own intentions and they have a mind that is not your mind. So your brain 37:14 is not your mind. So your brain 37:14 is not your mind. So your brain interprets all of that complexity and 37:16 interprets all of that complexity and 37:16 interprets all of that complexity and unpredictability of another person as 37:18 unpredictability of another person as 37:18 unpredictability of another person as evidence that there is another mind out 37:21 evidence that there is another mind out 37:21 evidence that there is another mind out there. And humans are actually really 37:23 there. And humans are actually really 37:23 there. And humans are actually really good at detecting other minds or beings. 37:26 good at detecting other minds or beings. 37:26 good at detecting other minds or beings. So we are constantly inferring 37:28 So we are constantly inferring 37:28 So we are constantly inferring intentions from movement and trying to 37:30 intentions from movement and trying to 37:30 intentions from movement and trying to figure out what people are thinking and 37:31 figure out what people are thinking and 37:31 figure out what people are thinking and why they're behaving in that way. It 37:33 why they're behaving in that way. It 37:33 why they're behaving in that way. It helps us survive and interact with them. 37:36 helps us survive and interact with them. 37:36 helps us survive and interact with them. So the authors of this paper proposed 37:38 So the authors of this paper proposed 37:38 So the authors of this paper proposed that under DMT when the brain is 37:40 that under DMT when the brain is 37:40 that under DMT when the brain is suddenly confronted with incredibly rich 37:42 suddenly confronted with incredibly rich 37:42 suddenly confronted with incredibly rich and difficult to explain information, 37:44 and difficult to explain information, 37:44 and difficult to explain information, one of the models it reaches for is 37:47 one of the models it reaches for is 37:47 one of the models it reaches for is there is an intelligent agent causing 37:49 there is an intelligent agent causing 37:49 there is an intelligent agent causing all of this. So fascinating, really cool 37:53 all of this. So fascinating, really cool 37:53 all of this. So fascinating, really cool neuroscience explanation, but it still 37:56 neuroscience explanation, but it still 37:56 neuroscience explanation, but it still does not explain the strangest part. Why 37:59 does not explain the strangest part. Why 37:59 does not explain the strangest part. Why does the entity feel completely separate 38:02 does the entity feel completely separate 38:02 does the entity feel completely separate from you? 38:03 from you? 38:03 from you? So quite literally external to you and 38:06 So quite literally external to you and 38:06 So quite literally external to you and having a conversation with you. And they 38:09 having a conversation with you. And they 38:09 having a conversation with you. And they actually did dig into this through the 38:11 actually did dig into this through the 38:11 actually did dig into this through the lens of sensory attenuation. 38:13 lens of sensory attenuation. 38:13 lens of sensory attenuation. So again, normally your brain is 38:15 So again, normally your brain is 38:15 So again, normally your brain is constantly predicting the consequences 38:17 constantly predicting the consequences 38:17 constantly predicting the consequences of things that you generate yourself. So 38:19 of things that you generate yourself. So 38:19 of things that you generate yourself. So if you move your hand, your brain knows 38:21 if you move your hand, your brain knows 38:21 if you move your hand, your brain knows what caused that. If you are imagining 38:24 what caused that. If you are imagining 38:24 what caused that. If you are imagining things, daydreaming, you're creating an 38:26 things, daydreaming, you're creating an 38:26 things, daydreaming, you're creating an image in your mind, your brain still 38:28 image in your mind, your brain still 38:28 image in your mind, your brain still knows that that image came from you. But 38:30 knows that that image came from you. But 38:30 knows that that image came from you. But psychedelics do appear to interfere with 38:33 psychedelics do appear to interfere with 38:33 psychedelics do appear to interfere with that whole process. So if we put those 38:35 that whole process. So if we put those 38:35 that whole process. So if we put those two things together, this being seems 38:38 two things together, this being seems 38:38 two things together, this being seems intelligent. 38:39 intelligent. 38:39 intelligent. I don't feel like I'm creating it. Your 38:42 I don't feel like I'm creating it. Your 38:42 I don't feel like I'm creating it. Your brain's best explanation is okay, 38:44 brain's best explanation is okay, 38:44 brain's best explanation is okay, there's something else here. So maybe, 38:47 there's something else here. So maybe, 38:47 there's something else here. So maybe, yeah, maybe neuroscience explains that a 38:48 yeah, maybe neuroscience explains that a 38:48 yeah, maybe neuroscience explains that a little bit. However, even the authors of 38:51 little bit. However, even the authors of 38:52 little bit. However, even the authors of this paper admit that all of this, all 38:54 this paper admit that all of this, all 38:54 this paper admit that all of this, all of this neuroscience explanation still 38:56 of this neuroscience explanation still 38:56 of this neuroscience explanation still does not actually answer whether the 38:57 does not actually answer whether the 38:58 does not actually answer whether the entity is real. They actually even state 39:00 entity is real. They actually even state 39:00 entity is real. They actually even state that this framework could actually work 39:02 that this framework could actually work 39:02 that this framework could actually work in the opposite direction too. So if 39:05 in the opposite direction too. So if 39:05 in the opposite direction too. So if these beings are externally present and 39:07 these beings are externally present and 39:07 these beings are externally present and real, it would actually make sense that 39:09 real, it would actually make sense that 39:09 real, it would actually make sense that during normal waking consciousness, our 39:11 during normal waking consciousness, our 39:11 during normal waking consciousness, our brain carries out an incredibly strong 39:13 brain carries out an incredibly strong 39:13 brain carries out an incredibly strong prior and tells us things like these 39:16 prior and tells us things like these 39:16 prior and tells us things like these things do not exist. So if that were the 39:18 things do not exist. So if that were the 39:18 things do not exist. So if that were the case, then they would actually not ever 39:20 case, then they would actually not ever 39:20 case, then they would actually not ever reach conscious awareness. So 39:22 reach conscious awareness. So 39:22 reach conscious awareness. So ultimately, bottom line, we still do not 39:24 ultimately, bottom line, we still do not 39:24 ultimately, bottom line, we still do not know, but I think it is fascinating to 39:27 know, but I think it is fascinating to 39:27 know, but I think it is fascinating to think about. Okay, so next we are going 39:29 think about. Okay, so next we are going 39:29 think about. Okay, so next we are going to zoom way out and talk about culture 39:32 to zoom way out and talk about culture 39:32 to zoom way out and talk about culture and history because in reality humans 39:34 and history because in reality humans 39:34 and history because in reality humans have been saying all this stuff for a 39:36 have been saying all this stuff for a 39:36 have been saying all this stuff for a very long time. So people have been 39:38 very long time. So people have been 39:38 very long time. So people have been using altered states psychedelic or not 39:41 using altered states psychedelic or not 39:41 using altered states psychedelic or not to expand their knowing beyond ordinary 39:43 to expand their knowing beyond ordinary 39:43 to expand their knowing beyond ordinary consciousness. And what I think is quite 39:46 consciousness. And what I think is quite 39:46 consciousness. And what I think is quite interesting is that in some traditional 39:47 interesting is that in some traditional 39:47 interesting is that in some traditional healing rituals in the Amazon, it was 39:49 healing rituals in the Amazon, it was 39:50 healing rituals in the Amazon, it was actually the healer that took the 39:51 actually the healer that took the 39:52 actually the healer that took the iawaska and not the patient so that the 39:54 iawaska and not the patient so that the 39:54 iawaska and not the patient so that the healer could interact with the plant and 39:56 healer could interact with the plant and 39:56 healer could interact with the plant and spirit allies to receive information 39:58 spirit allies to receive information 39:58 spirit allies to receive information about the illness of their patient so 40:00 about the illness of their patient so 40:00 about the illness of their patient so that they could determine what treatment 40:02 that they could determine what treatment 40:02 that they could determine what treatment or song or whatever it was was needed. 40:05 or song or whatever it was was needed. 40:05 or song or whatever it was was needed. Then we can look to Mazitech mushroom 40:07 Then we can look to Mazitech mushroom 40:07 Then we can look to Mazitech mushroom traditions in Mexico. So Maria Sabina 40:09 traditions in Mexico. So Maria Sabina 40:09 traditions in Mexico. So Maria Sabina very famously accounted that these 40:11 very famously accounted that these 40:11 very famously accounted that these psychedelic mushrooms allowed them to 40:13 psychedelic mushrooms allowed them to 40:13 psychedelic mushrooms allowed them to interact with powerful beings that they 40:15 interact with powerful beings that they 40:15 interact with powerful beings that they called principal ones. We can also think 40:18 called principal ones. We can also think 40:18 called principal ones. We can also think about the wixar relationship with peyote 40:20 about the wixar relationship with peyote 40:20 about the wixar relationship with peyote that shows us a different but pretty 40:22 that shows us a different but pretty 40:22 that shows us a different but pretty related idea as well. So the peyote 40:24 related idea as well. So the peyote 40:24 related idea as well. So the peyote cactus was embedded with pilgrimage and 40:27 cactus was embedded with pilgrimage and 40:27 cactus was embedded with pilgrimage and sacred places and the peyote itself is 40:29 sacred places and the peyote itself is 40:29 sacred places and the peyote itself is described as facilitating this kind of 40:31 described as facilitating this kind of 40:31 described as facilitating this kind of seeing or communication with ancestors 40:33 seeing or communication with ancestors 40:33 seeing or communication with ancestors and deities. So many different 40:36 and deities. So many different 40:36 and deities. So many different traditions but the same recurring 40:38 traditions but the same recurring 40:38 traditions but the same recurring features are described with interaction 40:40 features are described with interaction 40:40 features are described with interaction of the psychedelic plants. So again loss 40:43 of the psychedelic plants. So again loss 40:43 of the psychedelic plants. So again loss or expansion of the normal self 40:45 or expansion of the normal self 40:45 or expansion of the normal self sacredness encounters with some kind of 40:48 sacredness encounters with some kind of 40:48 sacredness encounters with some kind of other presence or intelligence or this 40:50 other presence or intelligence or this 40:50 other presence or intelligence or this knowetic quality about them. So the 40:52 knowetic quality about them. So the 40:52 knowetic quality about them. So the feeling that you did not simply 40:53 feeling that you did not simply 40:53 feeling that you did not simply experience something you actually 40:55 experience something you actually 40:55 experience something you actually learned something even if you can't 40:57 learned something even if you can't 40:57 learned something even if you can't explain what you learned. And 40:59 explain what you learned. And 40:59 explain what you learned. And interestingly enough, even modern 41:01 interestingly enough, even modern 41:01 interestingly enough, even modern psychedelic research now increasingly 41:03 psychedelic research now increasingly 41:03 psychedelic research now increasingly includes a validated mystical experience 41:06 includes a validated mystical experience 41:06 includes a validated mystical experience questionnaire, the MEQ, as part of their 41:09 questionnaire, the MEQ, as part of their 41:09 questionnaire, the MEQ, as part of their data collection to better understand 41:10 data collection to better understand 41:10 data collection to better understand these shared experiences. And I also 41:13 these shared experiences. And I also 41:13 these shared experiences. And I also think it's interesting to think about 41:14 think it's interesting to think about 41:14 think it's interesting to think about what kind of deities or encounters 41:17 what kind of deities or encounters 41:17 what kind of deities or encounters people experience based on their prior 41:19 people experience based on their prior 41:19 people experience based on their prior beliefs. So, for example, a Christian
CIA Experiments and Remote Viewing 41:21 beliefs. So, for example, a Christian 41:21 beliefs. So, for example, a Christian might encounter Jesus. A Mazitech healer 41:24 might encounter Jesus. A Mazitech healer 41:24 might encounter Jesus. A Mazitech healer is probably more likely to encounter the 41:26 is probably more likely to encounter the 41:26 is probably more likely to encounter the principal ones because that's what 41:27 principal ones because that's what 41:27 principal ones because that's what they've experienced and heard about. 41:30 they've experienced and heard about. 41:30 they've experienced and heard about. Someone who spent six months on DMT 41:32 Someone who spent six months on DMT 41:32 Someone who spent six months on DMT Reddit might encounter aliens or machine 41:34 Reddit might encounter aliens or machine 41:34 Reddit might encounter aliens or machine elves or something that looks like 41:36 elves or something that looks like 41:36 elves or something that looks like psychedelic art that they saw on these 41:37 psychedelic art that they saw on these 41:38 psychedelic art that they saw on these Reddit threads. So, even though people 41:39 Reddit threads. So, even though people 41:39 Reddit threads. So, even though people experience what they're culturally 41:41 experience what they're culturally 41:41 experience what they're culturally conditioned to experience, I actually 41:43 conditioned to experience, I actually 41:43 conditioned to experience, I actually don't think that that dismisses or 41:45 don't think that that dismisses or 41:45 don't think that that dismisses or actually explains away these quote 41:47 actually explains away these quote 41:47 actually explains away these quote unquote other beings encountered. I 41:49 unquote other beings encountered. I 41:49 unquote other beings encountered. I think it's pretty obvious that of course 41:50 think it's pretty obvious that of course 41:50 think it's pretty obvious that of course culture and prior experiences will 41:52 culture and prior experiences will 41:52 culture and prior experiences will influence the interpretation of these 41:54 influence the interpretation of these 41:54 influence the interpretation of these beings. But perhaps they really are all 41:58 beings. But perhaps they really are all 41:58 beings. But perhaps they really are all the same thing, but we're just 41:59 the same thing, but we're just 41:59 the same thing, but we're just interpreting them and perceiving them 42:01 interpreting them and perceiving them 42:01 interpreting them and perceiving them differently. Ultimately, of course, we 42:03 differently. Ultimately, of course, we 42:03 differently. Ultimately, of course, we have no idea. But do you know who else 42:06 have no idea. But do you know who else 42:06 have no idea. But do you know who else was completely fascinated by this and 42:08 was completely fascinated by this and 42:08 was completely fascinated by this and ran experience on people to figure out 42:10 ran experience on people to figure out 42:10 ran experience on people to figure out the answers to some of these questions? 42:13 the answers to some of these questions? 42:13 the answers to some of these questions? The CIA. So for decades, different 42:16 The CIA. So for decades, different 42:16 The CIA. So for decades, different branches of the US intelligence 42:18 branches of the US intelligence 42:18 branches of the US intelligence community were asking versions of the 42:20 community were asking versions of the 42:20 community were asking versions of the same questions that we have been talking 42:21 same questions that we have been talking 42:21 same questions that we have been talking about throughout this episode. So can 42:24 about throughout this episode. So can 42:24 about throughout this episode. So can altered states change what information 42:26 altered states change what information 42:26 altered states change what information the mind has access to. Can 42:28 the mind has access to. Can 42:28 the mind has access to. Can consciousness do things that our normal 42:30 consciousness do things that our normal 42:30 consciousness do things that our normal understanding of the brain says that it 42:32 understanding of the brain says that it 42:32 understanding of the brain says that it should not be able to do? And of course, 42:35 should not be able to do? And of course, 42:35 should not be able to do? And of course, because this was during the cold war, 42:37 because this was during the cold war, 42:37 because this was during the cold war, can we somehow use any of this for 42:40 can we somehow use any of this for 42:40 can we somehow use any of this for intelligence? So the CIA actually 42:42 intelligence? So the CIA actually 42:42 intelligence? So the CIA actually experimented with drugs, psychedelics, 42:44 experimented with drugs, psychedelics, 42:44 experimented with drugs, psychedelics, hypnosis, interrogation, and behavioral 42:47 hypnosis, interrogation, and behavioral 42:47 hypnosis, interrogation, and behavioral control. So this began with programs 42:49 control. So this began with programs 42:49 control. So this began with programs like Bluebird and Artichoke in the early 42:51 like Bluebird and Artichoke in the early 42:51 like Bluebird and Artichoke in the early 1950s and then eventually became the 42:53 1950s and then eventually became the 42:53 1950s and then eventually became the more famous MK Ultra programs. And this 42:57 more famous MK Ultra programs. And this 42:57 more famous MK Ultra programs. And this is not a conspiracy theory. These files 42:59 is not a conspiracy theory. These files 42:59 is not a conspiracy theory. These files are now declassified and you can 43:01 are now declassified and you can 43:01 are now declassified and you can actually view the files on the CIA 43:03 actually view the files on the CIA 43:03 actually view the files on the CIA website. So the CIA funded research 43:06 website. So the CIA funded research 43:06 website. So the CIA funded research involving LSD, hypnosis, mind control, 43:11 involving LSD, hypnosis, mind control, 43:11 involving LSD, hypnosis, mind control, and a lot of the experiments involved 43:13 and a lot of the experiments involved 43:13 and a lot of the experiments involved using people who did not consent and who 43:15 using people who did not consent and who 43:16 using people who did not consent and who had no idea that they had actually been 43:17 had no idea that they had actually been 43:17 had no idea that they had actually been given psychoactive drugs. And these 43:20 given psychoactive drugs. And these 43:20 given psychoactive drugs. And these experiments were happening all over. So 43:21 experiments were happening all over. So 43:21 experiments were happening all over. So universities, hospitals, prisons, and 43:24 universities, hospitals, prisons, and 43:24 universities, hospitals, prisons, and other organizations. 43:25 other organizations. 43:26 other organizations. And this is all just what we know from 43:27 And this is all just what we know from 43:27 And this is all just what we know from what is left of the documents. So, in 43:30 what is left of the documents. So, in 43:30 what is left of the documents. So, in the 70s, most of the MK Ultra 43:32 the 70s, most of the MK Ultra 43:32 the 70s, most of the MK Ultra documentation was deliberately destroyed 43:35 documentation was deliberately destroyed 43:35 documentation was deliberately destroyed by orders from senior CIA officials. So, 43:38 by orders from senior CIA officials. So, 43:38 by orders from senior CIA officials. So, I don't want to go too deep down this 43:39 I don't want to go too deep down this 43:39 I don't want to go too deep down this rabbit hole cuz we'll get lost in the 43:41 rabbit hole cuz we'll get lost in the 43:41 rabbit hole cuz we'll get lost in the weeds a little bit here and there's a 43:42 weeds a little bit here and there's a 43:42 weeds a little bit here and there's a lot to explore, but I do want to explain 43:45 lot to explore, but I do want to explain 43:45 lot to explore, but I do want to explain a few relevant things that is pertinent 43:47 a few relevant things that is pertinent 43:47 a few relevant things that is pertinent to this episode. So the question that 43:49 to this episode. So the question that 43:49 to this episode. So the question that was really on the mind of the CIA and 43:52 was really on the mind of the CIA and 43:52 was really on the mind of the CIA and actually quite a larger population than 43:54 actually quite a larger population than 43:54 actually quite a larger population than just the government back then was what 43:57 just the government back then was what 43:57 just the government back then was what if the mind can actually obtain 43:59 if the mind can actually obtain 43:59 if the mind can actually obtain information from other means other than 44:02 information from other means other than 44:02 information from other means other than our five senses? And one of the people 44:04 our five senses? And one of the people 44:04 our five senses? And one of the people who really chased this question down and 44:07 who really chased this question down and 44:07 who really chased this question down and dedicated much of his life to finding 44:08 dedicated much of his life to finding 44:08 dedicated much of his life to finding the answer was Dr. Andrew Bharich. So he 44:11 the answer was Dr. Andrew Bharich. So he 44:12 the answer was Dr. Andrew Bharich. So he was an actual medical doctor, a 44:13 was an actual medical doctor, a 44:13 was an actual medical doctor, a physician. He actually went to 44:15 physician. He actually went to 44:15 physician. He actually went to Northwestern for medical school, but his 44:17 Northwestern for medical school, but his 44:17 Northwestern for medical school, but his career took a wildly different turn than 44:19 career took a wildly different turn than 44:19 career took a wildly different turn than what he initially went to school for. So 44:21 what he initially went to school for. So 44:21 what he initially went to school for. So he became interested in telepathy, ESP, 44:23 he became interested in telepathy, ESP, 44:23 he became interested in telepathy, ESP, which is extra sensory perception, 44:25 which is extra sensory perception, 44:26 which is extra sensory perception, altered states, and he actually did 44:27 altered states, and he actually did 44:27 altered states, and he actually did explore psychedelic mushrooms decades 44:29 explore psychedelic mushrooms decades 44:29 explore psychedelic mushrooms decades before psychedelics actually became part 44:32 before psychedelics actually became part 44:32 before psychedelics actually became part of mainstream medical research. And as a 44:34 of mainstream medical research. And as a 44:34 of mainstream medical research. And as a quick recap of the arc of psychedelic 44:36 quick recap of the arc of psychedelic 44:36 quick recap of the arc of psychedelic medicine, psychedelics actually were 44:38 medicine, psychedelics actually were 44:38 medicine, psychedelics actually were used in medical research for mental 44:40 used in medical research for mental 44:40 used in medical research for mental health prior to their ban in the 1970s. 44:43 health prior to their ban in the 1970s. 44:43 health prior to their ban in the 1970s. Then of course they were banned and then 44:45 Then of course they were banned and then 44:45 Then of course they were banned and then just started to become resurfaced in the 44:47 just started to become resurfaced in the 44:47 just started to become resurfaced in the medical research in the '90s. And of 44:49 medical research in the '90s. And of 44:49 medical research in the '90s. And of course in the last 10 years research has 44:51 course in the last 10 years research has 44:51 course in the last 10 years research has just boomed. But anyways back to 44:53 just boomed. But anyways back to 44:53 just boomed. But anyways back to Bharich. So he was involved in private 44:57 Bharich. So he was involved in private 44:57 Bharich. So he was involved in private research funded by wealthy socialites in 44:59 research funded by wealthy socialites in 44:59 research funded by wealthy socialites in an organization called the roundt 45:01 an organization called the roundt 45:01 an organization called the roundt foundation and served in the army 45:03 foundation and served in the army 45:04 foundation and served in the army medical corpse at the army chemical 45:05 medical corpse at the army chemical 45:06 medical corpse at the army chemical center. And a lot of his work appears 45:08 center. And a lot of his work appears 45:08 center. And a lot of his work appears throughout all of these declassified 45:10 throughout all of these declassified 45:10 throughout all of these declassified government files. and his research was 45:13 government files. and his research was 45:13 government files. and his research was actually quite fascinating. So if you 45:15 actually quite fascinating. So if you 45:15 actually quite fascinating. So if you want to go down this rabbit hole, check 45:17 want to go down this rabbit hole, check 45:17 want to go down this rabbit hole, check out the book Phenomena by Annie Jacobson 45:19 out the book Phenomena by Annie Jacobson 45:20 out the book Phenomena by Annie Jacobson or the upcoming documentary called Mind 45:22 or the upcoming documentary called Mind 45:22 or the upcoming documentary called Mind Traveler by Greg Malazi, but separately. 45:25 Traveler by Greg Malazi, but separately. 45:25 Traveler by Greg Malazi, but separately. Beginning around 1972, the CIA started 45:28 Beginning around 1972, the CIA started 45:28 Beginning around 1972, the CIA started to fund more specific research at the 45:31 to fund more specific research at the 45:31 to fund more specific research at the Stanford Research Institute, SRRI, 45:33 Stanford Research Institute, SRRI, 45:34 Stanford Research Institute, SRRI, around remote viewing. So quite 45:37 around remote viewing. So quite 45:37 around remote viewing. So quite literally using psychics to spy on 45:39 literally using psychics to spy on 45:40 literally using psychics to spy on people around the world. And you can 45:42 people around the world. And you can 45:42 people around the world. And you can actually read all of this in the 45:43 actually read all of this in the 45:43 actually read all of this in the declassified files and they actually 45:46 declassified files and they actually 45:46 declassified files and they actually report enough apparently successful 45:48 report enough apparently successful 45:48 report enough apparently successful results that the government kept funding 45:50 results that the government kept funding 45:50 results that the government kept funding the work and later developed structured 45:53 the work and later developed structured 45:53 the work and later developed structured training programs to teach people how to 45:56 training programs to teach people how to 45:56 training programs to teach people how to do this that weren't actually psychics 45:58 do this that weren't actually psychics 45:58 do this that weren't actually psychics to begin with. Then eventually what I 46:01 to begin with. Then eventually what I 46:01 to begin with. Then eventually what I think is actually the most fascinating 46:03 think is actually the most fascinating 46:03 think is actually the most fascinating was the US Army's exploration into what 46:06 was the US Army's exploration into what 46:06 was the US Army's exploration into what is called gateway process which is 46:08 is called gateway process which is 46:08 is called gateway process which is actually a real consciousness training 46:10 actually a real consciousness training 46:10 actually a real consciousness training program developed by Robert Monroe and 46:12 program developed by Robert Monroe and 46:12 program developed by Robert Monroe and the Monroe Institute and they used 46:14 the Monroe Institute and they used 46:14 the Monroe Institute and they used guided meditation deep relaxation 46:16 guided meditation deep relaxation 46:16 guided meditation deep relaxation visualization and what they called 46:18 visualization and what they called 46:18 visualization and what they called hemisync so kind of like binaural beats 46:20 hemisync so kind of like binaural beats 46:20 hemisync so kind of like binaural beats to get people into these deep altered 46:22 to get people into these deep altered 46:22 to get people into these deep altered states of consciousness while the person 46:25 states of consciousness while the person 46:25 states of consciousness while the person was completely consciously aware. So 46:27 was completely consciously aware. So 46:27 was completely consciously aware. So this was sort of that. So this was sort 46:29 this was sort of that. So this was sort 46:29 this was sort of that. So this was sort of a non-drug attempt to deliberately 46:31 of a non-drug attempt to deliberately 46:32 of a non-drug attempt to deliberately alter consciousness. And in 1983, an 46:34 alter consciousness. And in 1983, an 46:34 alter consciousness. And in 1983, an army intelligence officer was actually 46:36 army intelligence officer was actually 46:36 army intelligence officer was actually tasked in assessing how gateway process 46:39 tasked in assessing how gateway process 46:39 tasked in assessing how gateway process may theoretically work. And so he did 46:42 may theoretically work. And so he did 46:42 may theoretically work. And so he did this whole deep dive, this whole 46:43 this whole deep dive, this whole 46:43 this whole deep dive, this whole research experience he pulled from 46:44 research experience he pulled from 46:44 research experience he pulled from neuroscience, our understanding of 46:46 neuroscience, our understanding of 46:46 neuroscience, our understanding of hypnosis, quantum mechanics, and a 46:49 hypnosis, quantum mechanics, and a 46:49 hypnosis, quantum mechanics, and a proposed holographic model of the 46:50 proposed holographic model of the 46:50 proposed holographic model of the universe. And he actually concluded that 46:53 universe. And he actually concluded that 46:53 universe. And he actually concluded that he thought that there was actually 46:55 he thought that there was actually 46:55 he thought that there was actually rational basis to investigate it 46:57 rational basis to investigate it 46:57 rational basis to investigate it further. And he even entertained the 46:59 further. And he even entertained the 46:59 further. And he even entertained the possibility that consciousness might not 47:01 possibility that consciousness might not 47:01 possibility that consciousness might not be completely confined to the physical 47:03 be completely confined to the physical 47:03 be completely confined to the physical brain. And you can read this stuff. I'm 47:05 brain. And you can read this stuff. I'm 47:05 brain. And you can read this stuff. I'm not making this up. This is not a 47:06 not making this up. This is not a 47:06 not making this up. This is not a conspiracy theory. You can actually read 47:08 conspiracy theory. You can actually read 47:08 conspiracy theory. You can actually read this on the CIA website. So fascinating. 47:12 this on the CIA website. So fascinating. 47:12 this on the CIA website. So fascinating. Then we get to Stargate, which is the 47:14 Then we get to Stargate, which is the 47:14 Then we get to Stargate, which is the more official remote viewing programs 47:16 more official remote viewing programs 47:16 more official remote viewing programs that continued into the 1990s. 47:19 that continued into the 1990s. 47:19 that continued into the 1990s. So millions of dollars were spent on 47:22 So millions of dollars were spent on 47:22 So millions of dollars were spent on this type of research. So military and 47:24 this type of research. So military and 47:24 this type of research. So military and intelligence personnel were trained on 47:26 intelligence personnel were trained on 47:26 intelligence personnel were trained on remote viewing to spy on other 47:28 remote viewing to spy on other 47:28 remote viewing to spy on other countries. So all this continued for a 47:31 countries. So all this continued for a 47:31 countries. So all this continued for a while. Then eventually after 20 years of 47:33 while. Then eventually after 20 years of 47:33 while. Then eventually after 20 years of this work, the CIA commissioned an 47:35 this work, the CIA commissioned an 47:35 this work, the CIA commissioned an independent evaluation to actually 47:36 independent evaluation to actually 47:36 independent evaluation to actually determine if all of this stuff did 47:39 determine if all of this stuff did 47:39 determine if all of this stuff did actually work. So first they brought in
What Psychedelics Reveal About Reality 47:41 actually work. So first they brought in 47:41 actually work. So first they brought in a statistician who did actually conclude 47:43 a statistician who did actually conclude 47:43 a statistician who did actually conclude that the statistical results could not 47:46 that the statistical results could not 47:46 that the statistical results could not actually be explained by chance alone. 47:48 actually be explained by chance alone. 47:48 actually be explained by chance alone. They also brought in a psychologist who 47:50 They also brought in a psychologist who 47:50 They also brought in a psychologist who did argue that the evidence was not 47:52 did argue that the evidence was not 47:52 did argue that the evidence was not independently replicated strongly 47:54 independently replicated strongly 47:54 independently replicated strongly enough. So ultimately from that side of 47:56 enough. So ultimately from that side of 47:56 enough. So ultimately from that side of things, we cannot actually prove 47:58 things, we cannot actually prove 47:58 things, we cannot actually prove anything. So again, ultimately like the 48:00 anything. So again, ultimately like the 48:00 anything. So again, ultimately like the rest of this podcast, we still don't 48:03 rest of this podcast, we still don't 48:03 rest of this podcast, we still don't fully know. The government spent a lot 48:05 fully know. The government spent a lot 48:05 fully know. The government spent a lot of time and money investigating this and 48:07 of time and money investigating this and 48:07 of time and money investigating this and theoretically never solve the problem. 48:10 theoretically never solve the problem. 48:10 theoretically never solve the problem. At least from what we know from these 48:11 At least from what we know from these 48:11 At least from what we know from these now declassified older files, we have no 48:14 now declassified older files, we have no 48:14 now declassified older files, we have no idea what's actually going on now. I 48:16 idea what's actually going on now. I 48:16 idea what's actually going on now. I think it's fun to think about, but I 48:17 think it's fun to think about, but I 48:18 think it's fun to think about, but I personally think the question that still 48:19 personally think the question that still 48:19 personally think the question that still remains is how would we know if an 48:22 remains is how would we know if an 48:22 remains is how would we know if an altered state is showing us something 48:25 altered state is showing us something 48:25 altered state is showing us something made up or just outside of our normal 48:28 made up or just outside of our normal 48:28 made up or just outside of our normal model of reality? Which then leads me to 48:30 model of reality? Which then leads me to 48:30 model of reality? Which then leads me to a bigger question. How confident should 48:33 a bigger question. How confident should 48:33 a bigger question. How confident should we be that our normal model of reality 48:36 we be that our normal model of reality 48:36 we be that our normal model of reality is actually quote unquote reality in the 48:38 is actually quote unquote reality in the 48:38 is actually quote unquote reality in the first place? And I personally think 48:41 first place? And I personally think 48:41 first place? And I personally think whatever reality ultimately is, we are 48:44 whatever reality ultimately is, we are 48:44 whatever reality ultimately is, we are not experiencing all of it. Your brain 48:46 not experiencing all of it. Your brain 48:46 not experiencing all of it. Your brain is not passively recording the world 48:48 is not passively recording the world 48:48 is not passively recording the world around you like a video camera. And that 48:50 around you like a video camera. And that 48:50 around you like a video camera. And that actually is a well-established 48:51 actually is a well-established 48:51 actually is a well-established neuroscience perspective. What it's 48:54 neuroscience perspective. What it's 48:54 neuroscience perspective. What it's actually doing is taking a comparatively 48:56 actually doing is taking a comparatively 48:56 actually doing is taking a comparatively tiny amount of available information, 48:59 tiny amount of available information, 48:59 tiny amount of available information, filtering it through your senses, 49:01 filtering it through your senses, 49:01 filtering it through your senses, combining it with memory, expectation, 49:03 combining it with memory, expectation, 49:03 combining it with memory, expectation, attention, and prediction, and then 49:06 attention, and prediction, and then 49:06 attention, and prediction, and then constructing that experience that we all 49:08 constructing that experience that we all 49:08 constructing that experience that we all call quote unquote reality. So there is 49:10 call quote unquote reality. So there is 49:10 call quote unquote reality. So there is actually no color red floating around in 49:13 actually no color red floating around in 49:13 actually no color red floating around in the outside world. There are wavelengths 49:16 the outside world. There are wavelengths 49:16 the outside world. There are wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation that your 49:18 of electromagnetic radiation that your 49:18 of electromagnetic radiation that your visual system takes in so that you 49:20 visual system takes in so that you 49:20 visual system takes in so that you subjectively experience the color red. 49:22 subjectively experience the color red. 49:22 subjectively experience the color red. But again, what produces that subjective 49:25 But again, what produces that subjective 49:25 But again, what produces that subjective experience? Then think about sound. We 49:28 experience? Then think about sound. We 49:28 experience? Then think about sound. We absolutely know that there is sound that 49:29 absolutely know that there is sound that 49:30 absolutely know that there is sound that is too high or too low for us to 49:32 is too high or too low for us to 49:32 is too high or too low for us to actually hear. We also know that there's 49:34 actually hear. We also know that there's 49:34 actually hear. We also know that there's light that we cannot see like infrared 49:36 light that we cannot see like infrared 49:36 light that we cannot see like infrared light. And then of course, even the 49:38 light. And then of course, even the 49:38 light. And then of course, even the sensory input that we can physically 49:40 sensory input that we can physically 49:40 sensory input that we can physically detect, most of it never actually 49:42 detect, most of it never actually 49:42 detect, most of it never actually reaches conscious awareness. So 49:45 reaches conscious awareness. So 49:45 reaches conscious awareness. So ultimately, ordinary waking 49:47 ultimately, ordinary waking 49:47 ultimately, ordinary waking consciousness is already a filter, a 49:49 consciousness is already a filter, a 49:49 consciousness is already a filter, a controlled hallucination. 49:51 controlled hallucination. 49:51 controlled hallucination. So what exactly are we filtering? And of 49:54 So what exactly are we filtering? And of 49:54 So what exactly are we filtering? And of course, what actually is consciousness? 49:57 course, what actually is consciousness? 49:57 course, what actually is consciousness? Psychedelics may be showing us more of 49:59 Psychedelics may be showing us more of 49:59 Psychedelics may be showing us more of reality and the neuroscience is giving 50:01 reality and the neuroscience is giving 50:01 reality and the neuroscience is giving us very plausible mechanisms for how all 50:03 us very plausible mechanisms for how all 50:03 us very plausible mechanisms for how all of those things happen, but explaining 50:07 of those things happen, but explaining 50:07 of those things happen, but explaining how the brain processes an experience 50:10 how the brain processes an experience 50:10 how the brain processes an experience does not ultimately tell us what caused 50:13 does not ultimately tell us what caused 50:13 does not ultimately tell us what caused the experience itself. So if I look at 50:15 the experience itself. So if I look at 50:15 the experience itself. So if I look at an actual tree, yes, there will be 50:18 an actual tree, yes, there will be 50:18 an actual tree, yes, there will be neural activity associated with seeing a 50:20 neural activity associated with seeing a 50:20 neural activity associated with seeing a tree. If I dream about a tree, there 50:23 tree. If I dream about a tree, there 50:23 tree. If I dream about a tree, there will also be neural activity associated 50:26 will also be neural activity associated 50:26 will also be neural activity associated with that tree. If I hallucinate a tree 50:29 with that tree. If I hallucinate a tree 50:29 with that tree. If I hallucinate a tree under psychedelics or not, there will 50:31 under psychedelics or not, there will 50:31 under psychedelics or not, there will also be neural activity associated with 50:33 also be neural activity associated with 50:33 also be neural activity associated with a tree. What differs is where that 50:36 a tree. What differs is where that 50:36 a tree. What differs is where that information is coming from. And 50:38 information is coming from. And 50:38 information is coming from. And psychedelic science has not given us 50:40 psychedelic science has not given us 50:40 psychedelic science has not given us that answer yet. So it's possible that 50:42 that answer yet. So it's possible that 50:42 that answer yet. So it's possible that they are allowing normally unconscious 50:44 they are allowing normally unconscious 50:44 they are allowing normally unconscious information from inside the brain to 50:46 information from inside the brain to 50:46 information from inside the brain to flood into our awareness that we may 50:49 flood into our awareness that we may 50:49 flood into our awareness that we may call a hallucination. And I think we can 50:51 call a hallucination. And I think we can 50:51 call a hallucination. And I think we can say with almost certainly this is 50:52 say with almost certainly this is 50:52 say with almost certainly this is happening in some part. But are they 50:55 happening in some part. But are they 50:55 happening in some part. But are they also changing sensory processing so that 50:57 also changing sensory processing so that 50:57 also changing sensory processing so that we notice aspects of the external world 51:00 we notice aspects of the external world 51:00 we notice aspects of the external world that we would normally suppress? I think 51:02 that we would normally suppress? I think 51:02 that we would normally suppress? I think also probably. Could they also somehow 51:05 also probably. Could they also somehow 51:05 also probably. Could they also somehow allow access to information that falls 51:07 allow access to information that falls 51:07 allow access to information that falls outside of our current model of 51:09 outside of our current model of 51:09 outside of our current model of perception altogether? 51:11 perception altogether? 51:11 perception altogether? Maybe ultimately we don't know yet. But 51:15 Maybe ultimately we don't know yet. But 51:15 Maybe ultimately we don't know yet. But from everything that we do know now, I 51:18 from everything that we do know now, I 51:18 from everything that we do know now, I don't think our primary question itself 51:20 don't think our primary question itself 51:20 don't think our primary question itself is as absurd as it sounds without 51:21 is as absurd as it sounds without 51:21 is as absurd as it sounds without context. And remember that humans have 51:23 context. And remember that humans have 51:23 context. And remember that humans have been asking versions of this question 51:25 been asking versions of this question 51:25 been asking versions of this question for thousands of years. So people across 51:28 for thousands of years. So people across 51:28 for thousands of years. So people across radically different cultures have 51:30 radically different cultures have 51:30 radically different cultures have entered altered states and returned 51:32 entered altered states and returned 51:32 entered altered states and returned believing that they have encountered 51:34 believing that they have encountered 51:34 believing that they have encountered ancestors, spirits, gods, plants, 51:36 ancestors, spirits, gods, plants, 51:36 ancestors, spirits, gods, plants, intelligence, all these things that they 51:38 intelligence, all these things that they 51:38 intelligence, all these things that they don't think that came from their 51:40 don't think that came from their 51:40 don't think that came from their ordinary mind. So maybe psychedelics are 51:42 ordinary mind. So maybe psychedelics are 51:42 ordinary mind. So maybe psychedelics are not showing us some hidden objective 51:44 not showing us some hidden objective 51:44 not showing us some hidden objective quote unquote true reality. Maybe they 51:47 quote unquote true reality. Maybe they 51:47 quote unquote true reality. Maybe they are showing us how much stranger 51:49 are showing us how much stranger 51:49 are showing us how much stranger perception itself is. Or maybe when we 51:53 perception itself is. Or maybe when we 51:53 perception itself is. Or maybe when we loosen the filters that create ordinary 51:55 loosen the filters that create ordinary 51:55 loosen the filters that create ordinary waking consciousness, we actually 51:58 waking consciousness, we actually 51:58 waking consciousness, we actually occasionally do gain access to 52:00 occasionally do gain access to 52:00 occasionally do gain access to information that is usually unavailable 52:02 information that is usually unavailable 52:02 information that is usually unavailable to us. Either way, I will leave you all 52:05 to us. Either way, I will leave you all 52:05 to us. Either way, I will leave you all with this. There is a difference between 52:08 with this. There is a difference between 52:08 with this. There is a difference between the brain created this and the brain 52:11 the brain created this and the brain 52:11 the brain created this and the brain perceived this. And the answer to the 52:14 perceived this. And the answer to the 52:14 perceived this. And the answer to the question of the title of this episode, 52:16 question of the title of this episode, 52:16 question of the title of this episode, do psychedelics show us more of reality? 52:20 do psychedelics show us more of reality? 52:20 do psychedelics show us more of reality? Maybe. But how do we actually know the 52:22 Maybe. But how do we actually know the 52:22 Maybe. But how do we actually know the difference between hallucination and a 52:24 difference between hallucination and a 52:24 difference between hallucination and a reality? And ultimately, what is 52:27 reality? And ultimately, what is 52:27 reality? And ultimately, what is reality? Okay, so a little bit weird 52:30 reality? Okay, so a little bit weird 52:30 reality? Okay, so a little bit weird one, a little bit trippier one, but 52:32 one, a little bit trippier one, but 52:32 one, a little bit trippier one, but thank you for listening to the trip lab. 52:34 thank you for listening to the trip lab. 52:34 thank you for listening to the trip lab. If you enjoyed this episode, please take 52:36 If you enjoyed this episode, please take 52:36 If you enjoyed this episode, please take a second to rate the show, subscribe, or 52:39 a second to rate the show, subscribe, or 52:39 a second to rate the show, subscribe, or share it with someone who would also 52:40 share it with someone who would also 52:40 share it with someone who would also love going down all these weird trippy 52:42 love going down all these weird trippy 52:42 love going down all these weird trippy rabbit holes. It really does help the 52:44 rabbit holes. It really does help the 52:44 rabbit holes. It really does help the show out more than you know. And if you 52:47 show out more than you know. And if you 52:47 show out more than you know. And if you want to go deeper, you can find the trip 52:49 want to go deeper, you can find the trip 52:49 want to go deeper, you can find the trip lab and my newsletter between mind and 52:51 lab and my newsletter between mind and 52:51 lab and my newsletter between mind and body on Substack at dr 52:53 body on Substack at dr 52:53 body on Substack at dr miela.substack.com. 52:55 miela.substack.com. 52:55 miela.substack.com. And I will link that below in the 52:56 And I will link that below in the 52:56 And I will link that below in the episode description. So there you will 52:58 episode description. So there you will 52:58 episode description. So there you will find every episode along with expanded 53:01 find every episode along with expanded 53:01 find every episode along with expanded show notes, full citations, transcripts, 53:03 show notes, full citations, transcripts, 53:03 show notes, full citations, transcripts, and companion guides for these episode. 53:05 and companion guides for these episode. 53:06 and companion guides for these episode. Paid subscribers also get access to all 53:08 Paid subscribers also get access to all 53:08 Paid subscribers also get access to all of the deeper physician created guides 53:10 of the deeper physician created guides 53:10 of the deeper physician created guides that I am building beyond this podcast. 53:12 that I am building beyond this podcast. 53:12 that I am building beyond this podcast. So I will see you next time. Stay 53:15 So I will see you next time. Stay 53:15 So I will see you next time. Stay curious.
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