Anger Is Not the Problem. The Blowup Is. | Hotness Ep 11

Podcast Introduction and Guest Bio 0:05

Welcome to Hotness, the podcast that Welcome to Hotness, the podcast that brings you practical tools to balance brings you practical tools to balance brings you practical tools to balance your hormones and rekindle connection, your hormones and rekindle connection, your hormones and rekindle connection, confidence, and desire in midlife and confidence, and desire in midlife and confidence, and desire in midlife and beyond. I'm your host, Dr. Liz beyond. I'm your host, Dr. Liz beyond. I'm your host, Dr. Liz Listister. Hotness is a safe space for Listister. Hotness is a safe space for Listister. Hotness is a safe space for honest conversations about menopause, honest conversations about menopause, honest conversations about menopause, sex, identity, love, loss, reinvention, sex, identity, love, loss, reinvention, sex, identity, love, loss, reinvention, and desire. because you can embrace your and desire. because you can embrace your and desire. because you can embrace your hotness at every age. Hello, my hot hotness at every age. Hello, my hot hotness at every age. Hello, my hot ones. You are in for a treat with this ones. You are in for a treat with this ones. You are in for a treat with this interview today with Paul Gutrect.

interview today with Paul Gutrect. interview today with Paul Gutrect. You've got to listen to it all the way You've got to listen to it all the way You've got to listen to it all the way through to the end. There's some real through to the end. There's some real through to the end. There's some real pearls towards the end as well. Paul is pearls towards the end as well. Paul is pearls towards the end as well. Paul is a licensed marriage and family therapist a licensed marriage and family therapist a licensed marriage and family therapist in the West Los Angeles area, Southern in the West Los Angeles area, Southern in the West Los Angeles area, Southern California. He has over a decade of California. He has over a decade of California. He has over a decade of experience specializing in anger and experience specializing in anger and experience specializing in anger and anger behavior management. We'll talk anger behavior management. We'll talk anger behavior management. We'll talk about that distinction. He has about that distinction. He has about that distinction. He has counseledled all kinds of people, CEOs, counseledled all kinds of people, CEOs, counseledled all kinds of people, CEOs, executives, attorneys, high power executives, attorneys, high power executives, attorneys, high power professionals. He also is referred professionals. He also is referred professionals. He also is referred people to work with who are going people to work with who are going people to work with who are going through divorce, going through through divorce, going through through divorce, going through mediation. So he has a bit of a mediation. So he has a bit of a mediation. So he has a bit of a specialty in the area of anger specialty in the area of anger specialty in the area of anger management. and that's why I wanted to management. and that's why I wanted to management. and that's why I wanted to uh have this conversation with him. He's uh have this conversation with him. He's uh have this conversation with him. He's accredited to provide continuing accredited to provide continuing accredited to provide continuing education credits to therapists and education credits to therapists and education credits to therapists and attorneys. He serves on the Maple attorneys. He serves on the Maple attorneys. He serves on the Maple Counseling C Center's board of directors Counseling C Center's board of directors Counseling C Center's board of directors and he also on a volunteer basis is a and he also on a volunteer basis is a and he also on a volunteer basis is a clinical supervisor for trainees who are clinical supervisor for trainees who are clinical supervisor for trainees who are working to achieve their therapist working to achieve their therapist working to achieve their therapist license. I am very excited to share this license. I am very excited to share this license. I am very excited to share this conversation with you. Well, please conversation with you. Well, please conversation with you. Well, please enjoy my discussion with Paul Goodrich.

Reframing Anger as a Signal 1:50

enjoy my discussion with Paul Goodrich. enjoy my discussion with Paul Goodrich. Paul Goodrich, welcome to Hotness. Paul Goodrich, welcome to Hotness. Paul Goodrich, welcome to Hotness. >> Thank you, Liz. I'm really glad to be >> Thank you, Liz. I'm really glad to be >> Thank you, Liz. I'm really glad to be here. here. here. >> Delighted to have this conversation with >> Delighted to have this conversation with >> Delighted to have this conversation with you. I know that you work a lot with men you. I know that you work a lot with men you. I know that you work a lot with men and I want to focus on the special work and I want to focus on the special work and I want to focus on the special work that you do with men and anger. I think that you do with men and anger. I think that you do with men and anger. I think that's a real interest to my audience.

that's a real interest to my audience. that's a real interest to my audience. I'm definitely fascinated by that. And I'm definitely fascinated by that. And I'm definitely fascinated by that. And so I want to start out by asking you, so I want to start out by asking you, so I want to start out by asking you, what are some skills that you teach men what are some skills that you teach men what are some skills that you teach men about anger and and then we'll go from about anger and and then we'll go from about anger and and then we'll go from there, right? And I know you have there, right? And I know you have there, right? And I know you have something to say about the phrase anger something to say about the phrase anger something to say about the phrase anger management. So let me let you jump off management. So let me let you jump off management. So let me let you jump off from there.

from there. from there. >> Absolutely. So it is mostly men that I >> Absolutely. So it is mostly men that I >> Absolutely. So it is mostly men that I work with either individually or in work with either individually or in work with either individually or in couples. I do have some women who reach couples. I do have some women who reach couples. I do have some women who reach out. So there are some women that I work out. So there are some women that I work out. So there are some women that I work with as well and obviously in a lot of with as well and obviously in a lot of with as well and obviously in a lot of couples. And so really the first thing I couples. And so really the first thing I couples. And so really the first thing I want to do is raise awareness and I want want to do is raise awareness and I want want to do is raise awareness and I want to raise awareness around the emotion of to raise awareness around the emotion of to raise awareness around the emotion of anger that that's okay to have. The anger that that's okay to have. The anger that that's okay to have. The emotion is a signal. It gives us energy emotion is a signal. It gives us energy emotion is a signal. It gives us energy to make change. Challenge is is that to make change. Challenge is is that to make change. Challenge is is that sometimes the action urge some cases a sometimes the action urge some cases a sometimes the action urge some cases a lot of times becomes something that's lot of times becomes something that's lot of times becomes something that's not so constructive and more not so constructive and more not so constructive and more destructive. So, I like to say this destructive. So, I like to say this destructive. So, I like to say this should really be about angry behavior should really be about angry behavior should really be about angry behavior management. They never caught on. It's management. They never caught on. It's management. They never caught on. It's too many syllables, I guess. So, we're too many syllables, I guess. So, we're too many syllables, I guess. So, we're stuck with anger management, but that stuck with anger management, but that stuck with anger management, but that kind of gives a bad rap to the emotion.

kind of gives a bad rap to the emotion. kind of gives a bad rap to the emotion. One of the first things I do is raise One of the first things I do is raise One of the first things I do is raise awareness that it is okay to have the awareness that it is okay to have the awareness that it is okay to have the emotion of anger. It's signaling you emotion of anger. It's signaling you emotion of anger. It's signaling you that something's up. Maybe something is that something's up. Maybe something is that something's up. Maybe something is wrong and you want to make some change.

Breathing and Pausing in Conflict 3:29

wrong and you want to make some change. wrong and you want to make some change. Then the next step is how you're going Then the next step is how you're going Then the next step is how you're going to do that. What's going to be most to do that. What's going to be most to do that. What's going to be most effective? Yes, I totally get that. What effective? Yes, I totally get that. What effective? Yes, I totally get that. What are some tools that you teach men are some tools that you teach men are some tools that you teach men specifically specifically specifically to use in the moment? They're feeling to use in the moment? They're feeling to use in the moment? They're feeling the emotion of anger. What can they do the emotion of anger. What can they do the emotion of anger. What can they do right in the moment? Obviously, this right in the moment? Obviously, this right in the moment? Obviously, this will apply to women also, but I would will apply to women also, but I would will apply to women also, but I would like to know specifically with men.

like to know specifically with men. like to know specifically with men. >> Yeah. And and I confess that I'm not so >> Yeah. And and I confess that I'm not so >> Yeah. And and I confess that I'm not so sure how how I adjust this differently sure how how I adjust this differently sure how how I adjust this differently for men and women. I think it's fairly for men and women. I think it's fairly for men and women. I think it's fairly universal, but we'll see. So, really, universal, but we'll see. So, really, universal, but we'll see. So, really, one of the first things is when we one of the first things is when we one of the first things is when we react, we usually want to say something.

react, we usually want to say something. react, we usually want to say something. Now when we speak we are inhaling in Now when we speak we are inhaling in Now when we speak we are inhaling in order to exhale with language. So the order to exhale with language. So the order to exhale with language. So the first thing I ask everybody to do is first thing I ask everybody to do is first thing I ask everybody to do is just exhale just breathe out without just exhale just breathe out without just exhale just breathe out without that thing you're going to say. Okay. So that thing you're going to say. Okay. So that thing you're going to say. Okay. So that's the very first thing our breath that's the very first thing our breath that's the very first thing our breath it's ancient exercise it's ancient skill it's ancient exercise it's ancient skill it's ancient exercise it's ancient skill work to just come back to our core and work to just come back to our core and work to just come back to our core and it really grounds us. So that's the very it really grounds us. So that's the very it really grounds us. So that's the very first thing. You're going to take that first thing. You're going to take that first thing. You're going to take that first breath and then you're going to first breath and then you're going to first breath and then you're going to take maybe two or three more before you take maybe two or three more before you take maybe two or three more before you say anything. And during that time, what say anything. And during that time, what say anything. And during that time, what you're going to focus on is what is my you're going to focus on is what is my you're going to focus on is what is my goal here? Because what happens a lot of goal here? Because what happens a lot of goal here? Because what happens a lot of the time is that if I get hurt or angry the time is that if I get hurt or angry the time is that if I get hurt or angry in an exchange, the goal that I had in in an exchange, the goal that I had in in an exchange, the goal that I had in this conversation to talk about weekend this conversation to talk about weekend this conversation to talk about weekend plans, child rearing, finances goes out plans, child rearing, finances goes out plans, child rearing, finances goes out the window. Now that I'm hurt, my new the window. Now that I'm hurt, my new the window. Now that I'm hurt, my new goal is hurt back. And that's a hijack.

goal is hurt back. And that's a hijack. goal is hurt back. And that's a hijack. I call that emotional hijack. And we I call that emotional hijack. And we I call that emotional hijack. And we want to avoid it. So the way we can want to avoid it. So the way we can want to avoid it. So the way we can avoid it is by taking a few breaths to avoid it is by taking a few breaths to avoid it is by taking a few breaths to remember what is my goal here. remember what is my goal here. remember what is my goal here. That's that's really one of the first That's that's really one of the first That's that's really one of the first things. Yes, I've done that in difficult things. Yes, I've done that in difficult things. Yes, I've done that in difficult conversations that I've had, not just conversations that I've had, not just conversations that I've had, not just with men or with partners, but in any with men or with partners, but in any with men or with partners, but in any situation where it might be challenging situation where it might be challenging situation where it might be challenging is I'll make a little note on my phone, is I'll make a little note on my phone, is I'll make a little note on my phone, the notes app, and just like with the the notes app, and just like with the the notes app, and just like with the topic or a post-it note, just to keep

Whole Expression and Direct Communication 5:34

topic or a post-it note, just to keep topic or a post-it note, just to keep that right in front of me also so that I that right in front of me also so that I that right in front of me also so that I remember to say what I wanted to say. remember to say what I wanted to say. remember to say what I wanted to say. So, does that go along with that? If I So, does that go along with that? If I So, does that go along with that? If I have something difficult to say, have something difficult to say, have something difficult to say, sometimes I'll even if I'm really being sometimes I'll even if I'm really being sometimes I'll even if I'm really being disciplined, I'll start with that. That disciplined, I'll start with that. That disciplined, I'll start with that. That way I don't stall and kind of dance way I don't stall and kind of dance way I don't stall and kind of dance around it. Is that is that helpful in around it. Is that is that helpful in around it. Is that is that helpful in >> I think it can be.

>> I think it can be. >> I think it can be. >> Well, the challenge is when I'm staking >> Well, the challenge is when I'm staking >> Well, the challenge is when I'm staking out territory, when I'm saying what I out territory, when I'm saying what I out territory, when I'm saying what I need to say and understanding that it's need to say and understanding that it's need to say and understanding that it's difficult, just want to have my difficult, just want to have my difficult, just want to have my awareness up awareness up awareness up >> that there may be some reaction from the >> that there may be some reaction from the >> that there may be some reaction from the other person.

other person. other person. So, one thing that I joke in my anger So, one thing that I joke in my anger So, one thing that I joke in my anger management group is I say after all management group is I say after all management group is I say after all these sessions, if you decide not to these sessions, if you decide not to these sessions, if you decide not to change any of your behavior, you're at change any of your behavior, you're at change any of your behavior, you're at least going to be aware that your least going to be aware that your least going to be aware that your behavior has consequences, more behavior has consequences, more behavior has consequences, more consequences than you thought. So, it consequences than you thought. So, it consequences than you thought. So, it can be very helpful to be direct and can be very helpful to be direct and can be very helpful to be direct and hopefully with the other person raising hopefully with the other person raising hopefully with the other person raising their awareness around their possible their awareness around their possible their awareness around their possible reactivity and working on how they reactivity and working on how they reactivity and working on how they communicate, they're going to be able to communicate, they're going to be able to communicate, they're going to be able to respond to that direct message.

respond to that direct message. respond to that direct message. >> And do you have the opportunity and do >> And do you have the opportunity and do >> And do you have the opportunity and do you go I'm assuming you go underneath you go I'm assuming you go underneath you go I'm assuming you go underneath because there's a lot of emotions that because there's a lot of emotions that because there's a lot of emotions that can be underneath anger. Can you say a can be underneath anger. Can you say a can be underneath anger. Can you say a little bit about that? You know, I do little bit about that? You know, I do little bit about that? You know, I do think anger is a primary emotion if not think anger is a primary emotion if not think anger is a primary emotion if not a primal emotion. But there's a lot of a primal emotion. But there's a lot of a primal emotion. But there's a lot of talk in literature out there around talk in literature out there around talk in literature out there around anger being a secondary emotion covering anger being a secondary emotion covering anger being a secondary emotion covering sadness or shame. Okay. So those two sadness or shame. Okay. So those two sadness or shame. Okay. So those two things are about things are about things are about >> sadness, shame. What about fear?

>> sadness, shame. What about fear? >> sadness, shame. What about fear? >> Absolutely. Fear as well. >> Absolutely. Fear as well. >> Absolutely. Fear as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Hurt, loss of power. >> Okay. Hurt, loss of power. >> Okay. Hurt, loss of power. >> I'm going to go back then. I mean I and >> I'm going to go back then. I mean I and >> I'm going to go back then. I mean I and I'll so this is a little go back of I'll so this is a little go back of I'll so this is a little go back of >> sure that >> sure that >> sure that >> the secondary emotion of anger then can >> the secondary emotion of anger then can >> the secondary emotion of anger then can cover sadness, shame or fear.

cover sadness, shame or fear. cover sadness, shame or fear. >> Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And we just know >> Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And we just know >> Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And we just know there's a lot to being human, right? there's a lot to being human, right? there's a lot to being human, right? It's hard being human. It's hard being human. It's hard being human. >> Absolutely. And we find those things so >> Absolutely. And we find those things so >> Absolutely. And we find those things so vulnerable that we try to defend against vulnerable that we try to defend against vulnerable that we try to defend against feeling those things or revealing those feeling those things or revealing those feeling those things or revealing those things because there's a lot in the things because there's a lot in the things because there's a lot in the culture about I need to be together. I culture about I need to be together. I culture about I need to be together. I need to look strong and so forth.

need to look strong and so forth. need to look strong and so forth. >> I'm so glad you brought that up. >> I'm so glad you brought that up. >> I'm so glad you brought that up. Tell say a little more about that. What Tell say a little more about that. What Tell say a little more about that. What you think is happening? Do you think you think is happening? Do you think you think is happening? Do you think that emotional regulation is taught less that emotional regulation is taught less that emotional regulation is taught less to boys or maybe it's that girls are to boys or maybe it's that girls are to boys or maybe it's that girls are culturally trained to just stay quiet?

culturally trained to just stay quiet? culturally trained to just stay quiet? It's a little it's interesting It's a little it's interesting It's a little it's interesting territory. What do you talk about in

Safety, Breaks, and Distress Tolerance 8:14

territory. What do you talk about in territory. What do you talk about in that area? So speaking anecdotally, I do that area? So speaking anecdotally, I do that area? So speaking anecdotally, I do think in the culture there's less think in the culture there's less think in the culture there's less training for boys around expression of training for boys around expression of training for boys around expression of emotion and more training to hold it in emotion and more training to hold it in emotion and more training to hold it in and look a certain way and be a certain and look a certain way and be a certain and look a certain way and be a certain way. And I think there is more cultural way. And I think there is more cultural way. And I think there is more cultural messaging for women to have less messaging for women to have less messaging for women to have less expression of those things. I think that expression of those things. I think that expression of those things. I think that we experience that. And so the question we experience that. And so the question we experience that. And so the question is how we work on our communication, how is how we work on our communication, how is how we work on our communication, how we bring things out into the we bring things out into the we bring things out into the relationship that's in between us, relationship that's in between us, relationship that's in between us, that's not just inside me or inside the that's not just inside me or inside the that's not just inside me or inside the other person, but in between us that other person, but in between us that other person, but in between us that we're working on together.

we're working on together. we're working on together. >> I am extremely obsessed and fascinated >> I am extremely obsessed and fascinated >> I am extremely obsessed and fascinated with masculine feminine especially with masculine feminine especially with masculine feminine especially masculine feminine energies. Obviously, masculine feminine energies. Obviously, masculine feminine energies. Obviously, women and men both have both masculine women and men both have both masculine women and men both have both masculine and feminine energy, and that comes into and feminine energy, and that comes into and feminine energy, and that comes into play when there's like a DNA level. And play when there's like a DNA level. And play when there's like a DNA level. And I I don't like being completely I I don't like being completely I I don't like being completely heteronormative in my conversations, but heteronormative in my conversations, but heteronormative in my conversations, but I'm talking a lot about male, female, I'm talking a lot about male, female, I'm talking a lot about male, female, men and women, couples, whether it's a men and women, couples, whether it's a men and women, couples, whether it's a work relationship or an intimate work relationship or an intimate work relationship or an intimate relationship, but there's there's some relationship, but there's there's some relationship, but there's there's some degree of DNA, I think, programming degree of DNA, I think, programming degree of DNA, I think, programming going on there. So well we can talk going on there. So well we can talk going on there. So well we can talk about that another time but I think that about that another time but I think that about that another time but I think that makes it difficult with the expectations makes it difficult with the expectations makes it difficult with the expectations right the woman she could feel right the woman she could feel right the woman she could feel frightened if a man is expressing his frightened if a man is expressing his frightened if a man is expressing his anger. What is a way that that can be anger. What is a way that that can be anger. What is a way that that can be framed in a conversation or in a setting framed in a conversation or in a setting framed in a conversation or in a setting that would help?

that would help? that would help? >> Okay. And by the way I want to mention >> Okay. And by the way I want to mention >> Okay. And by the way I want to mention I've worked with same-sex couples. So I've worked with same-sex couples. So I've worked with same-sex couples. So these dynamics that were putting these these dynamics that were putting these these dynamics that were putting these tr masculine and feminine on they they tr masculine and feminine on they they tr masculine and feminine on they they present themselves in samesex couples as present themselves in samesex couples as present themselves in samesex couples as well. So I think this is all applicable.

well. So I think this is all applicable. well. So I think this is all applicable. Okay. So but if one person is Okay. So but if one person is Okay. So but if one person is experiencing fear okay now we're going experiencing fear okay now we're going experiencing fear okay now we're going to come down to communication. First of to come down to communication. First of to come down to communication. First of all I think it's important for everybody all I think it's important for everybody all I think it's important for everybody to feel safe in the communication. So it to feel safe in the communication. So it to feel safe in the communication. So it can be hard to let the other person know can be hard to let the other person know can be hard to let the other person know that you're feeling scared right now.

that you're feeling scared right now. that you're feeling scared right now. Okay. I'm feeling scared right now is a Okay. I'm feeling scared right now is a Okay. I'm feeling scared right now is a perfectly valid thing to say. And in my perfectly valid thing to say. And in my perfectly valid thing to say. And in my training in dialectical behavior training in dialectical behavior training in dialectical behavior therapy, all of our emotions are valid. therapy, all of our emotions are valid. therapy, all of our emotions are valid. It's just that our perceptions vary. And It's just that our perceptions vary. And It's just that our perceptions vary. And so the perceptions can be debatable. But so the perceptions can be debatable. But so the perceptions can be debatable. But the emotion that we're having is the the emotion that we're having is the the emotion that we're having is the emotion we're having in real time. So emotion we're having in real time. So emotion we're having in real time. So what can be challenging is if someone what can be challenging is if someone what can be challenging is if someone says, "I'm feeling scared right now."

says, "I'm feeling scared right now." says, "I'm feeling scared right now." that the other person may dismiss it, that the other person may dismiss it, that the other person may dismiss it, minimize it, or express contempt for minimize it, or express contempt for minimize it, or express contempt for that emotion. So, it's a challenge. So, that emotion. So, it's a challenge. So, that emotion. So, it's a challenge. So, what I want to talk about real quick is what I want to talk about real quick is what I want to talk about real quick is a tool that comes from an amazing book a tool that comes from an amazing book a tool that comes from an amazing book that I learned about over a decade ago.

that I learned about over a decade ago. that I learned about over a decade ago. It's called messages. Okay? All you have It's called messages. Okay? All you have It's called messages. Okay? All you have to do is remember to do is remember to do is remember >> put it in the we'll put it in the show >> put it in the we'll put it in the show >> put it in the we'll put it in the show notes. notes. notes. >> Great. Messages by McKay at all. There's >> Great. Messages by McKay at all. There's >> Great. Messages by McKay at all. There's a couple other authors. So we usually a couple other authors. So we usually a couple other authors. So we usually get lost in our opinions and

DBT TIPP Skills for Regulation 11:20

get lost in our opinions and get lost in our opinions and perspectives and so we don't talk about perspectives and so we don't talk about perspectives and so we don't talk about how we're feeling and we don't talk how we're feeling and we don't talk how we're feeling and we don't talk about what we need. And these are two about what we need. And these are two about what we need. And these are two important elements of a whole important elements of a whole important elements of a whole expression. A whole expression having expression. A whole expression having expression. A whole expression having four. What are the facts? What are my four. What are the facts? What are my four. What are the facts? What are my positions, values, expectations, positions, values, expectations, positions, values, expectations, memories, anything cognitive? how I'm memories, anything cognitive? how I'm memories, anything cognitive? how I'm feeling emotionally or physiologically feeling emotionally or physiologically feeling emotionally or physiologically like I'm scared and what I need so like I'm scared and what I need so like I'm scared and what I need so >> or I'm sweaty or my heart is racing or >> or I'm sweaty or my heart is racing or >> or I'm sweaty or my heart is racing or like a disl >> I would say if someone's feeling scared >> I would say if someone's feeling scared in an exchange is to say as in an exchange is to say as in an exchange is to say as non-judgmentally as possible as non-judgmentally as possible as non-judgmentally as possible as factually as possible when you raise factually as possible when you raise factually as possible when you raise your voice your voice your voice it scares me it scares me it scares me >> when you raise your voice >> when you raise your voice >> when you raise your voice >> the four let's do the four again with >> the four let's do the four again with >> the four let's do the four again with this example. So number one is the fact this example. So number one is the fact this example. So number one is the fact and try trying to describe it as calmly and try trying to describe it as calmly and try trying to describe it as calmly as one is able to in the moment after as one is able to in the moment after as one is able to in the moment after they've taken their deep breaths they've taken their deep breaths they've taken their deep breaths >> right so after the deep breaths we want >> right so after the deep breaths we want >> right so after the deep breaths we want to think about the tool of whole to think about the tool of whole to think about the tool of whole expression from this book messages expression from this book messages expression from this book messages >> which is >> which is >> which is >> one is the fact when you speak more >> one is the fact when you speak more >> one is the fact when you speak more loudly it makes me loudly it makes me loudly it makes me >> or I say it again >> or I say it again >> or I say it again >> right so >> right so >> right so >> you say it >> you say it >> you say it >> I'm gonna okay so here are the for a >> I'm gonna okay so here are the for a >> I'm gonna okay so here are the for a fact, perceptions, feelings, and wants fact, perceptions, feelings, and wants fact, perceptions, feelings, and wants and needs. I don't have to say them in and needs. I don't have to say them in and needs. I don't have to say them in these orders. I may not even use them these orders. I may not even use them these orders. I may not even use them all. Right? If I can leave out opinions, all. Right? If I can leave out opinions, all. Right? If I can leave out opinions, all the better.

all the better. all the better. >> So, >> So, >> So, >> but I'm going to start factually as much >> but I'm going to start factually as much >> but I'm going to start factually as much as possible. as possible. as possible. >> When you raise your voice, when you >> When you raise your voice, when you >> When you raise your voice, when you speak more loudly. Notice I didn't say speak more loudly. Notice I didn't say speak more loudly. Notice I didn't say when you yell because a lot of people when you yell because a lot of people when you yell because a lot of people have different opinions about I'm not have different opinions about I'm not have different opinions about I'm not yelling. So, when you speak more loudly, yelling. So, when you speak more loudly, yelling. So, when you speak more loudly, >> it scares me. I'm scared now. That's my >> it scares me. I'm scared now. That's my >> it scares me. I'm scared now. That's my emotion, right?

emotion, right? emotion, right? >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You don't I don't think I'm safe. And I >> You don't I don't think I'm safe. And I >> You don't I don't think I'm safe. And I said think I'm safe. You could also say said think I'm safe. You could also say said think I'm safe. You could also say feel safe. feel safe. feel safe. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> I need to ask you to take a breath and >> I need to ask you to take a breath and >> I need to ask you to take a breath and lower your voice.

lower your voice. lower your voice. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Now, I may say, "What do you need right >> Now, I may say, "What do you need right >> Now, I may say, "What do you need right now?" now?" now?" >> Right now, sometimes what's needed is to >> Right now, sometimes what's needed is to >> Right now, sometimes what's needed is to take a break. We need to take a break. take a break. We need to take a break. take a break. We need to take a break. And all the clinicians out there that And all the clinicians out there that And all the clinicians out there that talk about taking breaks tell you it's talk about taking breaks tell you it's talk about taking breaks tell you it's vital to say how long you need for that vital to say how long you need for that vital to say how long you need for that break so that the other person doesn't break so that the other person doesn't break so that the other person doesn't feel abandoned or dismissed.

feel abandoned or dismissed. feel abandoned or dismissed. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So those are those are important things. >> So those are those are important things. >> So those are those are important things. >> Yeah. That's wonderful. I I do that with >> Yeah. That's wonderful. I I do that with >> Yeah. That's wonderful. I I do that with my adult son when things are just my adult son when things are just my adult son when things are just escalating in me. I just say I just I escalating in me. I just say I just I escalating in me. I just say I just I need you to walk away if he's come to need you to walk away if he's come to need you to walk away if he's come to where I'm sitting. Like if I'm at my where I'm sitting. Like if I'm at my where I'm sitting. Like if I'm at my desk and I need to stay at my desk, so I desk and I need to stay at my desk, so I desk and I need to stay at my desk, so I I'm not the one that can walk away, but I'm not the one that can walk away, but I'm not the one that can walk away, but I need I need separation. And he does.

I need I need separation. And he does. I need I need separation. And he does. He does. We We've got that figured out. He does. We We've got that figured out. He does. We We've got that figured out. And then we come back and then I make And then we come back and then I make And then we come back and then I make sure that we come back like, "Okay, sure that we come back like, "Okay, sure that we come back like, "Okay, thank you for walking away earlier. I am thank you for walking away earlier. I am thank you for walking away earlier. I am in a mental place where we can finish in a mental place where we can finish in a mental place where we can finish the conversation."

the conversation." the conversation." >> Yeah. Now, I want to jump in right here >> Yeah. Now, I want to jump in right here >> Yeah. Now, I want to jump in right here to mention something from John and Julie

Relationship Awareness and Misunderstandings 14:23

to mention something from John and Julie to mention something from John and Julie Gotland's research on couples where they Gotland's research on couples where they Gotland's research on couples where they >> they're the most famous couples therapy >> they're the most famous couples therapy >> they're the most famous couples therapy researchers that I think exist. Right. researchers that I think exist. Right. researchers that I think exist. Right. AB: AB: AB: >> Absolutely. And so they would have >> Absolutely. And so they would have >> Absolutely. And so they would have coupled for 4 hours at a time strapped coupled for 4 hours at a time strapped coupled for 4 hours at a time strapped in with heart rate monitors and pulse in with heart rate monitors and pulse in with heart rate monitors and pulse monitors, blood pressure monitors. What monitors, blood pressure monitors. What monitors, blood pressure monitors. What they would notice is that because they they would notice is that because they they would notice is that because they would ask people to talk about a would ask people to talk about a would ask people to talk about a conflict and then take a break and then conflict and then take a break and then conflict and then take a break and then bring themselves back out of the break bring themselves back out of the break bring themselves back out of the break when they're ready. And they noticed when they're ready. And they noticed when they're ready. And they noticed because they were observing all the data because they were observing all the data because they were observing all the data in real time, most people came back to in real time, most people came back to in real time, most people came back to the conversation before their body was the conversation before their body was the conversation before their body was back down at baseline. So they were back down at baseline. So they were back down at baseline. So they were still vulnerable.

still vulnerable. still vulnerable. >> Gotcha. >> Gotcha. >> Gotcha. >> Right. To to heating up again. So it's >> Right. To to heating up again. So it's >> Right. To to heating up again. So it's really important to take that break and really important to take that break and really important to take that break and to self soo and take care of yourself to self soo and take care of yourself to self soo and take care of yourself during that break. during that break. during that break. >> Let's talk more about skills. You you >> Let's talk more about skills. You you >> Let's talk more about skills. You you brought up that tool which is an awesome brought up that tool which is an awesome brought up that tool which is an awesome tool. How about some other healthy tool. How about some other healthy tool. How about some other healthy conflict skills? How can people conflict skills? How can people conflict skills? How can people recognize that moment where they I'm recognize that moment where they I'm recognize that moment where they I'm going to say lose emotional regulation?

going to say lose emotional regulation? going to say lose emotional regulation? That's fair to say. And like a practical That's fair to say. And like a practical That's fair to say. And like a practical tool to call the pause tool to call the pause tool to call the pause >> to call the pause >> tools and any other tools that you use >> tools and any other tools that you use with with the people you work with. with with the people you work with. with with the people you work with. >> Sure. Honestly, I keep coming back to >> Sure. Honestly, I keep coming back to >> Sure. Honestly, I keep coming back to this whole expression tool. And what I this whole expression tool. And what I this whole expression tool. And what I emphasize now is it is a tool. We don't emphasize now is it is a tool. We don't emphasize now is it is a tool. We don't need a whole expression all the time.

need a whole expression all the time. need a whole expression all the time. And we go to the mechanic, they don't And we go to the mechanic, they don't And we go to the mechanic, they don't need to know how we're feeling. But in need to know how we're feeling. But in need to know how we're feeling. But in this moment, what we're doing by adding this moment, what we're doing by adding this moment, what we're doing by adding in how I'm feeling and what I need is in how I'm feeling and what I need is in how I'm feeling and what I need is we're adding more context to the we're adding more context to the we're adding more context to the conversation and to the circumstances, conversation and to the circumstances, conversation and to the circumstances, right? And I can if appropriate in terms right? And I can if appropriate in terms right? And I can if appropriate in terms of my perspective, I can speak to the of my perspective, I can speak to the of my perspective, I can speak to the vision of the relationship. But now vision of the relationship. But now vision of the relationship. But now we're in a heated moment. So what we we're in a heated moment. So what we we're in a heated moment. So what we need to do is take a breath. No, need to do is take a breath. No, need to do is take a breath. No, acknowledge what's going on right now.

acknowledge what's going on right now. acknowledge what's going on right now. All right. I'm heating up. I'm feeling All right. I'm heating up. I'm feeling All right. I'm heating up. I'm feeling overwhelmed. I don't feel safe right overwhelmed. I don't feel safe right overwhelmed. I don't feel safe right now. Okay? And then I need to take a now. Okay? And then I need to take a now. Okay? And then I need to take a break. I need 15 minutes and then we can break. I need 15 minutes and then we can break. I need 15 minutes and then we can come back. Now, we want to be real about come back. Now, we want to be real about come back. Now, we want to be real about the time we need. We may need more time the time we need. We may need more time the time we need. We may need more time at the end of it and we need to ask for at the end of it and we need to ask for at the end of it and we need to ask for it. So, part of working on the it. So, part of working on the it. So, part of working on the communication between two people is at a communication between two people is at a communication between two people is at a time when there is no conflict, trying time when there is no conflict, trying time when there is no conflict, trying to set up some ground rules along the to set up some ground rules along the to set up some ground rules along the lines of like two ethical boxers. If lines of like two ethical boxers. If lines of like two ethical boxers. If somebody asks for a break, it's like somebody asks for a break, it's like somebody asks for a break, it's like bell ringing. You drop your gloves and bell ringing. You drop your gloves and bell ringing. You drop your gloves and you go to your corners. You don't add you go to your corners. You don't add you go to your corners. You don't add that one last extra jab. You acknowledge that one last extra jab. You acknowledge that one last extra jab. You acknowledge and you go to use. And by the way, this and you go to use. And by the way, this and you go to use. And by the way, this brings us to expectation. Two people are brings us to expectation. Two people are brings us to expectation. Two people are engaged. One person's asking for a engaged. One person's asking for a engaged. One person's asking for a break. The other person probably doesn't break. The other person probably doesn't break. The other person probably doesn't need or want a break at that moment. So, need or want a break at that moment. So, need or want a break at that moment. So, they're going to be a little frustrated.

they're going to be a little frustrated. they're going to be a little frustrated. They're going to have that emotion of They're going to have that emotion of They're going to have that emotion of frustration in that moment. And that's frustration in that moment. And that's frustration in that moment. And that's real. So, they can take a breath and real. So, they can take a breath and real. So, they can take a breath and acknowledge that. They might say, "Okay, acknowledge that. They might say, "Okay, acknowledge that. They might say, "Okay, we're taking a break. I'm I'm frustrated we're taking a break. I'm I'm frustrated we're taking a break. I'm I'm frustrated and I want to get back to it, but let's and I want to get back to it, but let's and I want to get back to it, but let's take our break. Okay. No comment about take our break. Okay. No comment about take our break. Okay. No comment about the discussion or about the other the discussion or about the other the discussion or about the other person. They can say, "I wish we didn't person. They can say, "I wish we didn't person. They can say, "I wish we didn't need a break right now, but okay."

need a break right now, but okay." need a break right now, but okay." >> I get that. I I've experienced that >> I get that. I I've experienced that >> I get that. I I've experienced that where I just want to say what I have to where I just want to say what I have to where I just want to say what I have to say right now cuz now I'm here and I say right now cuz now I'm here and I say right now cuz now I'm here and I want to say it. So that's really I think want to say it. So that's really I think want to say it. So that's really I think a matter of love.

Men, Relationships, and Hidden Impact 17:50

a matter of love. a matter of love. I think that's a function of love I think that's a function of love I think that's a function of love between the people having the between the people having the between the people having the discussion, having the conversation discussion, having the conversation discussion, having the conversation where they're trying to clear something where they're trying to clear something where they're trying to clear something up because again, it's a a commitment to up because again, it's a a commitment to up because again, it's a a commitment to clearing it up and that the bigger clearing it up and that the bigger clearing it up and that the bigger picture is caring about the other picture is caring about the other picture is caring about the other person.

person. person. >> 100%. When people aren't feeling safe, >> 100%. When people aren't feeling safe, >> 100%. When people aren't feeling safe, that's when things are heating up. We're that's when things are heating up. We're that's when things are heating up. We're trying to get back to safety and care. trying to get back to safety and care. trying to get back to safety and care. caring language matters as you you need caring language matters as you you need caring language matters as you you need to mean it when you say it babe I need to mean it when you say it babe I need to mean it when you say it babe I need to take pause right now honey this is to take pause right now honey this is to take pause right now honey this is feeling overwhelmed right now that feeling overwhelmed right now that feeling overwhelmed right now that language matters and is meaningful and language matters and is meaningful and language matters and is meaningful and it is part of that bigger context what it is part of that bigger context what it is part of that bigger context what is my goal here my goal is for us to is my goal here my goal is for us to is my goal here my goal is for us to enjoy that vacation or enjoy our enjoy that vacation or enjoy our enjoy that vacation or enjoy our retirement or whatever conversation retirement or whatever conversation retirement or whatever conversation we're actually having right that's what we're actually having right that's what we're actually having right that's what we want to do together that's the bigger we want to do together that's the bigger we want to do together that's the bigger goal and so then the more immediate goal and so then the more immediate goal and so then the more immediate feelings of anger and frustration, we feelings of anger and frustration, we feelings of anger and frustration, we want to try to understand them in the want to try to understand them in the want to try to understand them in the context of the bigger goal. That's why context of the bigger goal. That's why context of the bigger goal. That's why that tool of like what is my goal here?

that tool of like what is my goal here? that tool of like what is my goal here? What is my bigger picture? Now, you What is my bigger picture? Now, you What is my bigger picture? Now, you mentioned wanting more tools. So, I want mentioned wanting more tools. So, I want mentioned wanting more tools. So, I want to name a couple of tools for distress to name a couple of tools for distress to name a couple of tools for distress tolerance. This is also from DBT, tolerance. This is also from DBT, tolerance. This is also from DBT, dialectical behavior therapy. Um, dialectical behavior therapy. Um, dialectical behavior therapy. Um, >> okay. You said stress tolerance.

>> okay. You said stress tolerance. >> okay. You said stress tolerance. >> Distress tolerance. Yes. >> Distress tolerance. Yes. >> Distress tolerance. Yes. >> Distress tolerance. Okay. Interesting. >> Distress tolerance. Okay. Interesting. >> Distress tolerance. Okay. Interesting. I use the phrase stress tolerance I use the phrase stress tolerance I use the phrase stress tolerance because when people have their hormones because when people have their hormones because when people have their hormones balanced, they have much better stress balanced, they have much better stress balanced, they have much better stress tolerance. So maybe I'm going to add tolerance. So maybe I'm going to add tolerance. So maybe I'm going to add this phrase in. Say a little more about this phrase in. Say a little more about this phrase in. Say a little more about distress tolerance.

distress tolerance. distress tolerance. >> Absolutely. So Dr. Marshall Lahan when >> Absolutely. So Dr. Marshall Lahan when >> Absolutely. So Dr. Marshall Lahan when she created DBT, one of the things that she created DBT, one of the things that she created DBT, one of the things that she added in to the many awesome skills she added in to the many awesome skills she added in to the many awesome skills that she has provided in DBT are that she has provided in DBT are that she has provided in DBT are something that she refers to as the tip something that she refers to as the tip something that she refers to as the tip skills. That's an acronym, T I P. So skills. That's an acronym, T I P. So skills. That's an acronym, T I P. So when you ask for that break because when you ask for that break because when you ask for that break because you're heating up or you're feeling you're heating up or you're feeling you're heating up or you're feeling overwhelmed or not safe, you're going to overwhelmed or not safe, you're going to overwhelmed or not safe, you're going to go away. And as the doins say, you want go away. And as the doins say, you want go away. And as the doins say, you want to self soothe during that break. So DBT to self soothe during that break. So DBT to self soothe during that break. So DBT says, you want to tolerate distress. How says, you want to tolerate distress. How says, you want to tolerate distress. How am I going to do that? So the T stands am I going to do that? So the T stands am I going to do that? So the T stands for body temperature. So you're for body temperature. So you're for body temperature. So you're literally going to cool off. You may not literally going to cool off. You may not literally going to cool off. You may not be able to run your face under cold be able to run your face under cold be able to run your face under cold water, but you could get a cool wash.

water, but you could get a cool wash. water, but you could get a cool wash. >> You may. Yeah, that you may. Absolutely. >> You may. Yeah, that you may. Absolutely. >> You may. Yeah, that you may. Absolutely. The the opening shot of shrinking is The the opening shot of shrinking is The the opening shot of shrinking is that character I'm blanking on his name that character I'm blanking on his name that character I'm blanking on his name now. With his face under a faucet in the now. With his face under a faucet in the now. With his face under a faucet in the staff kitchen.

staff kitchen. staff kitchen. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Was that Rick Morannis? Was that a Rick >> Was that Rick Morannis? Was that a Rick >> Was that Rick Morannis? Was that a Rick Morannis movie? Is that Morannis movie? Is that Morannis movie? Is that >> No, no, no. Shrinking his uh >> No, no, no. Shrinking his uh >> No, no, no. Shrinking his uh new TV show. Got it. Okay. Jason, new TV show. Got it. Okay. Jason, new TV show. Got it. Okay. Jason, >> I can't believe I'm blanking on the >> I can't believe I'm blanking on the >> I can't believe I'm blanking on the guy's name. So, sorry.

guy's name. So, sorry. guy's name. So, sorry. >> I know. It's okay. >> I know. It's okay. >> I know. It's okay. >> Great. great actor like >> Great. great actor like >> Great. great actor like >> right >> right >> right >> so you want to lower your body >> so you want to lower your body >> so you want to lower your body temperature you want to cool off with a temperature you want to cool off with a temperature you want to cool off with a washcloth on your face or on the back of washcloth on your face or on the back of washcloth on your face or on the back of your neck all right we're a lot of your neck all right we're a lot of your neck all right we're a lot of people that say hey I spent a lot of people that say hey I spent a lot of people that say hey I spent a lot of time on my makeup I do not want to you time on my makeup I do not want to you time on my makeup I do not want to you know wash my face for my day no problem know wash my face for my day no problem know wash my face for my day no problem grab a cold drink and just while it's grab a cold drink and just while it's grab a cold drink and just while it's closed put it on the back of your neck closed put it on the back of your neck closed put it on the back of your neck at the base of your skull makes a huge at the base of your skull makes a huge at the base of your skull makes a huge difference okay sort of from citrus in difference okay sort of from citrus in difference okay sort of from citrus in your freezer and then you can enjoy the your freezer and then you can enjoy the your freezer and then you can enjoy the scent scent scent while you're also bringing it to your while you're also bringing it to your while you're also bringing it to your base to cool off or just holding it in base to cool off or just holding it in base to cool off or just holding it in your hands. Okay, so literal cooling your hands. Okay, so literal cooling your hands. Okay, so literal cooling off. That's the first one. Okay, the I off. That's the first one. Okay, the I off. That's the first one. Okay, the I stands for intense physical exercise.

stands for intense physical exercise. stands for intense physical exercise. And her research was not on going, I And her research was not on going, I And her research was not on going, I need a 30-minute workout now cuz I'm need a 30-minute workout now cuz I'm need a 30-minute workout now cuz I'm mad. It is 10 seconds. Go to another mad. It is 10 seconds. Go to another mad. It is 10 seconds. Go to another room, get yourself in another space, and room, get yourself in another space, and room, get yourself in another space, and do 10 jumping jacks. Jog in place for 10 do 10 jumping jacks. Jog in place for 10 do 10 jumping jacks. Jog in place for 10 seconds. you're going to discharge seconds. you're going to discharge seconds. you're going to discharge actual energy because our emotions actual energy because our emotions actual energy because our emotions generate action urges. Anger generates generate action urges. Anger generates generate action urges. Anger generates some pretty big action urges. So, some pretty big action urges. So, some pretty big action urges. So, there's energy created and part of what there's energy created and part of what there's energy created and part of what we want to do is burn off a little bit we want to do is burn off a little bit we want to do is burn off a little bit of it that may not be the most effective of it that may not be the most effective of it that may not be the most effective thing in the moment. So, intense thing in the moment. So, intense thing in the moment. So, intense physical exercise just for 10 seconds.

physical exercise just for 10 seconds. physical exercise just for 10 seconds. Maybe I'll need a little more, but Maybe I'll need a little more, but Maybe I'll need a little more, but you're not worrying about have needing you're not worrying about have needing you're not worrying about have needing half an hour to go out. Okay. half an hour to go out. Okay. half an hour to go out. Okay. Then the two P's. The first P we already Then the two P's. The first P we already Then the two P's. The first P we already talked about paste breathing. Okay, we talked about paste breathing. Okay, we talked about paste breathing. Okay, we just talked about breath work, but in just talked about breath work, but in just talked about breath work, but in this case we're going to give it a a this case we're going to give it a a this case we're going to give it a a count, right? You can do a a boxed count, right? You can do a a boxed count, right? You can do a a boxed breath is the same count on all four breath is the same count on all four breath is the same count on all four sides. And by that I mean inhale for sides. And by that I mean inhale for sides. And by that I mean inhale for four, hold for four, exhale for four, four, hold for four, exhale for four, four, hold for four, exhale for four, and hold for four. That's a boxed and hold for four. That's a boxed and hold for four. That's a boxed breath. Okay, you can change the count.

breath. Okay, you can change the count. breath. Okay, you can change the count. You can inhale for four, hold for two, You can inhale for four, hold for two, You can inhale for four, hold for two, and exhale for six, but I wouldn't go and exhale for six, but I wouldn't go and exhale for six, but I wouldn't go for anything longer than an eight count for anything longer than an eight count for anything longer than an eight count in any direction. So, just breathing, in any direction. So, just breathing, in any direction. So, just breathing, giving yourself some of that. And the giving yourself some of that. And the giving yourself some of that. And the last P is progressive muscle relaxation, last P is progressive muscle relaxation, last P is progressive muscle relaxation, where you're just clenching and where you're just clenching and where you're just clenching and unclenching all the pairs of your

Attachment, Partnership, and Closing Thoughts 22:45

unclenching all the pairs of your unclenching all the pairs of your muscles. So, right now, I'm pointing my muscles. So, right now, I'm pointing my muscles. So, right now, I'm pointing my toes. Now, I'm flexing them towards the toes. Now, I'm flexing them towards the toes. Now, I'm flexing them towards the ceiling. Now, I'm clenching my calves ceiling. Now, I'm clenching my calves ceiling. Now, I'm clenching my calves and unclenching. Clenching my quads and and unclenching. Clenching my quads and and unclenching. Clenching my quads and hamstrings and unclenching all the way hamstrings and unclenching all the way hamstrings and unclenching all the way up to my eyebrows. Okay. I'm going to do up to my eyebrows. Okay. I'm going to do up to my eyebrows. Okay. I'm going to do my shoulders, my hands, everything.

my shoulders, my hands, everything. my shoulders, my hands, everything. Jennifer is a way to get some of that Jennifer is a way to get some of that Jennifer is a way to get some of that energy out. It's another way, another energy out. It's another way, another energy out. It's another way, another discharge of the discharge of the discharge of the >> That's great. We'll put a reference to >> That's great. We'll put a reference to >> That's great. We'll put a reference to that also cuz there's just so much so that also cuz there's just so much so that also cuz there's just so much so many nuggets of gold in our our many nuggets of gold in our our many nuggets of gold in our our conversation. Now I can say that we conversation. Now I can say that we conversation. Now I can say that we could like chat for a very very long could like chat for a very very long could like chat for a very very long time but let me just ask you one more time but let me just ask you one more time but let me just ask you one more question for right now and related to question for right now and related to question for right now and related to your work which is I know that you work your work which is I know that you work your work which is I know that you work with couples and sometimes men who are with couples and sometimes men who are with couples and sometimes men who are in the middle of a divorce. Is that in the middle of a divorce. Is that in the middle of a divorce. Is that correct?

correct? correct? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> They're referred to you mediators >> They're referred to you mediators >> They're referred to you mediators attorneys etc. attorneys etc. attorneys etc. What do you find that men think about What do you find that men think about What do you find that men think about that they realize that they didn't that they realize that they didn't that they realize that they didn't understand about relationships? understand about relationships? understand about relationships? >> I want to come at this in a couple ways >> I want to come at this in a couple ways >> I want to come at this in a couple ways >> and sort of getting the man's >> and sort of getting the man's >> and sort of getting the man's perspective from you as well as your perspective from you as well as your perspective from you as well as your professional work.

professional work. professional work. >> I'm going to share a story and then we >> I'm going to share a story and then we >> I'm going to share a story and then we can pull it out if you don't want it. can pull it out if you don't want it. can pull it out if you don't want it. the grandmother of Barack Obama died the grandmother of Barack Obama died the grandmother of Barack Obama died just a few months before he was elected just a few months before he was elected just a few months before he was elected the first time and he visited her and the first time and he visited her and the first time and he visited her and she said something to the effect of she said something to the effect of she said something to the effect of you're kind of the same person but your you're kind of the same person but your you're kind of the same person but your body gets older and she was just body gets older and she was just body gets older and she was just referring to the aging process and the referring to the aging process and the referring to the aging process and the life process and what I think happens life process and what I think happens life process and what I think happens for men as we grow into our bodies is for men as we grow into our bodies is for men as we grow into our bodies is and this is in response to your question and this is in response to your question and this is in response to your question I think something that men become aware I think something that men become aware I think something that men become aware of about their relationship is they were of about their relationship is they were of about their relationship is they were not fully aware of the impact they had not fully aware of the impact they had not fully aware of the impact they had on their partner. By that I mean an on their partner. By that I mean an on their partner. By that I mean an angry response for them might be angry response for them might be angry response for them might be something where they yell and they're something where they yell and they're something where they yell and they're over it, but that's not the experience over it, but that's not the experience over it, but that's not the experience of the other person.

of the other person. of the other person. So, a lot of people don't realize a lot. So, a lot of people don't realize a lot. So, a lot of people don't realize a lot. And I've heard men say, "I'm this kid And I've heard men say, "I'm this kid And I've heard men say, "I'm this kid who grew into this 6'2 body and my who grew into this 6'2 body and my who grew into this 6'2 body and my actions have consequences that I'm not actions have consequences that I'm not actions have consequences that I'm not fully aware of and that I wasn't aware fully aware of and that I wasn't aware fully aware of and that I wasn't aware of." And that just because I handle my of." And that just because I handle my of." And that just because I handle my emotional state in a certain way and my emotional state in a certain way and my emotional state in a certain way and my relationship to stressors of life in a relationship to stressors of life in a relationship to stressors of life in a certain way, I think I made assumptions certain way, I think I made assumptions certain way, I think I made assumptions about how my partner would do that. And about how my partner would do that. And about how my partner would do that. And by not paying more attention to where by not paying more attention to where by not paying more attention to where they really were, we grew further and they really were, we grew further and they really were, we grew further and further apart.

further apart. further apart. >> Wow. Does that make sense? >> Wow. Does that make sense? >> Wow. Does that make sense? >> That's incredible. Absolutely. That >> That's incredible. Absolutely. That >> That's incredible. Absolutely. That makes That's like touching my heart. makes That's like touching my heart. makes That's like touching my heart. >> I want to share Can I share one more >> I want to share Can I share one more >> I want to share Can I share one more thing? Sure, please. thing? Sure, please.

thing? Sure, please. >> This is a piece of research from the >> This is a piece of research from the >> This is a piece of research from the '9s. If you make me dig it up, I will. I '9s. If you make me dig it up, I will. I '9s. If you make me dig it up, I will. I don't remember where it is, but I don't remember where it is, but I don't remember where it is, but I haven't a long time ago. It's okay. haven't a long time ago. It's okay. haven't a long time ago. It's okay. >> And it was a study to see if men or >> And it was a study to see if men or >> And it was a study to see if men or women are more effective assessors of women are more effective assessors of women are more effective assessors of the status of a relationship. And in the status of a relationship. And in the status of a relationship. And in this study, how however they framed it, this study, how however they framed it, this study, how however they framed it, they determined that women were more they determined that women were more they determined that women were more accurate assessors of the status of a accurate assessors of the status of a accurate assessors of the status of a relationship. So the men might be like, relationship. So the men might be like, relationship. So the men might be like, I don't know why we're in the or I I don't know why we're in the or I I don't know why we're in the or I thought things were fine and then she thought things were fine and then she thought things were fine and then she asked for a divorce. And my joke about asked for a divorce. And my joke about asked for a divorce. And my joke about the observations in this study is the the observations in this study is the the observations in this study is the findings are that men are clueless. That findings are that men are clueless. That findings are that men are clueless. That >> we're less >> we're less >> we're less >> I know. Oh my god. Okay. I I do need you >> I know. Oh my god. Okay. I I do need you >> I know. Oh my god. Okay. I I do need you to try to dig that up because we can do to try to dig that up because we can do to try to dig that up because we can do a whole another episode just that a whole another episode just that a whole another episode just that conversation because when you were conversation because when you were conversation because when you were starting to describe it, I thought, starting to describe it, I thought, starting to describe it, I thought, well, it's going to be women. It it well, it's going to be women. It it well, it's going to be women. It it can't be anything other than that. And can't be anything other than that. And can't be anything other than that. And then so anyhow, go ahead. Sorry.

then so anyhow, go ahead. Sorry. then so anyhow, go ahead. Sorry. >> Right. And so, you know, in I'll find I >> Right. And so, you know, in I'll find I >> Right. And so, you know, in I'll find I do think I have a copy of this study do think I have a copy of this study do think I have a copy of this study somewhere in a box that's not too far somewhere in a box that's not too far somewhere in a box that's not too far away. So, I I will try to find away. So, I I will try to find away. So, I I will try to find >> it'll be good for both of us. So, so it >> it'll be good for both of us. So, so it >> it'll be good for both of us. So, so it come back to this.

come back to this. come back to this. >> What they realized was their awareness >> What they realized was their awareness >> What they realized was their awareness was not meeting the needs of the other was not meeting the needs of the other was not meeting the needs of the other person and and the awareness of the person and and the awareness of the person and and the awareness of the other person and that led to things other person and that led to things other person and that led to things going further and further apart. What's going further and further apart. What's going further and further apart. What's beautiful is that they had the beautiful is that they had the beautiful is that they had the realization and that you can work with realization and that you can work with realization and that you can work with people to help them have that people to help them have that people to help them have that realization and hopefully people can realization and hopefully people can realization and hopefully people can listen to this discussion that we're listen to this discussion that we're listen to this discussion that we're having, this conversation that we've had having, this conversation that we've had having, this conversation that we've had to be able to use tools and be better to be able to use tools and be better to be able to use tools and be better assessors of what's going on. So that's assessors of what's going on. So that's assessors of what's going on. So that's that's amazing. If people want to know that's amazing. If people want to know that's amazing. If people want to know more about your practice or working with more about your practice or working with more about your practice or working with you, how can they reach you?

you, how can they reach you? you, how can they reach you? >> I'm going to share that, but I I want to >> I'm going to share that, but I I want to >> I'm going to share that, but I I want to share one more thing. I want to leave share one more thing. I want to leave share one more thing. I want to leave you with this paraphrase from a book you with this paraphrase from a book you with this paraphrase from a book called Attached and it's about adult called Attached and it's about adult called Attached and it's about adult attachment styles by Amir Lavine and attachment styles by Amir Lavine and attachment styles by Amir Lavine and Rachel Heler and they talked about your Rachel Heler and they talked about your Rachel Heler and they talked about your main relationship is your royalty.

main relationship is your royalty. main relationship is your royalty. You're king and queen or king and king You're king and queen or king and king You're king and queen or king and king and queen and queen whatever it is and queen and queen whatever it is and queen and queen whatever it is >> whatever it is are your power couple and >> whatever it is are your power couple and >> whatever it is are your power couple and you're there for each other and there's you're there for each other and there's you're there for each other and there's not one above the other. It is two not one above the other. It is two not one above the other. It is two people there with love and support and people there with love and support and people there with love and support and commitment to each other. And that's you commitment to each other. And that's you commitment to each other. And that's you have that goal in mind above kind of have that goal in mind above kind of have that goal in mind above kind of whatever's going on in the moment to whatever's going on in the moment to whatever's going on in the moment to help drive how you're going to speak and help drive how you're going to speak and help drive how you're going to speak and how you're going to take care of each how you're going to take care of each how you're going to take care of each other through that moment. So wanted to other through that moment. So wanted to other through that moment. So wanted to share that. I love that.

share that. I love that. share that. I love that. >> That's beautiful. That's a whole another >> That's beautiful. That's a whole another >> That's beautiful. That's a whole another conversation as well. I picture that as conversation as well. I picture that as conversation as well. I picture that as a horizontal like a infinity sign where a horizontal like a infinity sign where a horizontal like a infinity sign where the dynamic and energy is going back and the dynamic and energy is going back and the dynamic and energy is going back and forth instead of a hierarchy. So that's forth instead of a hierarchy. So that's forth instead of a hierarchy. So that's how I picture that. So that's really how I picture that. So that's really how I picture that. So that's really remarkable.

remarkable. remarkable. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. If people want to know more, how >> Okay. If people want to know more, how >> Okay. If people want to know more, how do they reach you? What's the best way? do they reach you? What's the best way? do they reach you? What's the best way? >> Absolutely. Best way to reach me is my >> Absolutely. Best way to reach me is my >> Absolutely. Best way to reach me is my work cell phone 310 work cell phone 310 work cell phone 310 >> 7457712. >> 7457712.

>> 7457712. Please call me and leave a voicemail or Please call me and leave a voicemail or Please call me and leave a voicemail or text me there. And then my website if text me there. And then my website if text me there. And then my website if you want to learn more about me. you want to learn more about me. you want to learn more about me. >> We'll we'll put that put this all into >> We'll we'll put that put this all into >> We'll we'll put that put this all into the show notes. Uhhuh. What on the the show notes. Uhhuh. What on the the show notes. Uhhuh. What on the website?

website? website? >> Website is just Paul G Counseling with >> Website is just Paul G Counseling with >> Website is just Paul G Counseling with one L. Okay. c o n s e l i n g.com paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paulgcounseling.com paulgcounseling.com paulgcounseling.com and that's where to find me but reach and that's where to find me but reach and that's where to find me but reach out to me uh by by phone out to me uh by by phone out to me uh by by phone >> okay fantastic and the last question I >> okay fantastic and the last question I >> okay fantastic and the last question I have for you I ask all of my guests what have for you I ask all of my guests what have for you I ask all of my guests what is something that you personally do to is something that you personally do to is something that you personally do to connect with and experience your own connect with and experience your own connect with and experience your own hotness hotness hotness >> that's a great question hotness like a >> that's a great question hotness like a >> that's a great question hotness like a good thing hotness good thing hotness good thing hotness >> like aliveness vitality desire higher >> like aliveness vitality desire higher >> like aliveness vitality desire higher like that across all walks of life like that across all walks of life like that across all walks of life doesn't it's not necessarily sexual it's doesn't it's not necessarily sexual it's doesn't it's not necessarily sexual it's in life in general in life in general in life in general >> these days you know and cuz I keep >> these days you know and cuz I keep >> these days you know and cuz I keep there's some psychology books that I there's some psychology books that I there's some psychology books that I keep rereading and going back to and so keep rereading and going back to and so keep rereading and going back to and so I'm just trying to think about I'm just trying to think about I'm just trying to think about before it's like in a land time forgot I before it's like in a land time forgot I before it's like in a land time forgot I just try to go back before I got all the just try to go back before I got all the just try to go back before I got all the messages about how I'm supposed to be in messages about how I'm supposed to be in messages about how I'm supposed to be in the world to just take in what's around the world to just take in what's around the world to just take in what's around me and take it in and when I don't feel me and take it in and when I don't feel me and take it in and when I don't feel grateful I like to intellectually say I grateful I like to intellectually say I grateful I like to intellectually say I have gratitude for and that gets me have gratitude for and that gets me have gratitude for and that gets me there. So it is about gratitude but there. So it is about gratitude but there. So it is about gratitude but sometimes I am not grateful or I don't sometimes I am not grateful or I don't sometimes I am not grateful or I don't feel grateful but I can just say well I feel grateful but I can just say well I feel grateful but I can just say well I have gratitude for. So it is about have gratitude for. So it is about have gratitude for. So it is about taking a beat about what I have taking a beat about what I have taking a beat about what I have gratitude for and thinking about how I'd gratitude for and thinking about how I'd gratitude for and thinking about how I'd like that to be in the world but like that to be in the world but like that to be in the world but realizing that's that's an outcome realizing that's that's an outcome realizing that's that's an outcome whatever my vision is. Now I got to whatever my vision is. Now I got to whatever my vision is. Now I got to think about what I'm going to do for think about what I'm going to do for think about what I'm going to do for that.

that. that. >> So it's about >> So it's about >> So it's about >> and what is something that you do to >> and what is something that you do to >> and what is something that you do to embody that? embody that? embody that? I got the part where you think about it. I got the part where you think about it. I got the part where you think about it. Then how do you Then how do you Then how do you >> take >> take >> take >> That is a great question. It's almost >> That is a great question. It's almost >> That is a great question. It's almost like I have to one step that you take like I have to one step that you take like I have to one step that you take that gets you into your body.

that gets you into your body. that gets you into your body. >> It is again it's just I take a breath >> It is again it's just I take a breath >> It is again it's just I take a breath and I just try to make sure that I'm not and I just try to make sure that I'm not and I just try to make sure that I'm not looking at myself. I'm not being looking at myself. I'm not being looking at myself. I'm not being self-conscious. I'm trying to direct self-conscious. I'm trying to direct self-conscious. I'm trying to direct whatever that self-conscious energy is whatever that self-conscious energy is whatever that self-conscious energy is outward. So I'm looking out into the outward. So I'm looking out into the outward. So I'm looking out into the world and taking in the world.

world and taking in the world. world and taking in the world. >> All right. Very good. And I'm going to >> All right. Very good. And I'm going to >> All right. Very good. And I'm going to ask you one more little piece because I ask you one more little piece because I ask you one more little piece because I really want to get to a little more like really want to get to a little more like really want to get to a little more like not an answer from you from here. So you not an answer from you from here. So you not an answer from you from here. So you I I totally get that. It's beautiful.

I I totally get that. It's beautiful. I I totally get that. It's beautiful. You breathe, you pause, you look out You breathe, you pause, you look out You breathe, you pause, you look out into the world, and then how does that into the world, and then how does that into the world, and then how does that make you feel? make you feel? make you feel? >> What comes from that on a fairly regular >> What comes from that on a fairly regular >> What comes from that on a fairly regular basis? You feel energized. Feel basis? You feel energized. Feel basis? You feel energized. Feel energized, energized, energized, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> Beautiful. >> Beautiful. >> Beautiful. >> It livens me. >> It livens me. >> It livens me. >> Feel more alive with that. >> Feel more alive with that. >> Feel more alive with that. >> Thank you so much. Thank you for this >> Thank you so much. Thank you for this >> Thank you so much. Thank you for this conversation. I look forward to further conversation. I look forward to further conversation. I look forward to further conversations. I know we'll see each conversations. I know we'll see each conversations. I know we'll see each other soon, but also maybe another one other soon, but also maybe another one other soon, but also maybe another one of these episodes because I always of these episodes because I always of these episodes because I always welcome questions and comments and based welcome questions and comments and based welcome questions and comments and based on people's feedback what else we can on people's feedback what else we can on people's feedback what else we can talk about and share. I know you have a talk about and share. I know you have a talk about and share. I know you have a lot of resources. So, thank you very lot of resources. So, thank you very lot of resources. So, thank you very much.

much. much. >> Absolutely. This was great and this has >> Absolutely. This was great and this has >> Absolutely. This was great and this has made me think of a whole bunch of other made me think of a whole bunch of other made me think of a whole bunch of other stuff that I'd love to share. So, stuff that I'd love to share. So, stuff that I'd love to share. So, anytime. anytime. anytime. >> Fantastic. We'll plan on that. >> Fantastic. We'll plan on that. >> Fantastic. We'll plan on that. Thanks for listening to Hotness. Help Thanks for listening to Hotness. Help Thanks for listening to Hotness. Help more women find these practical tools by more women find these practical tools by more women find these practical tools by liking, sharing, and following the show, liking, sharing, and following the show, liking, sharing, and following the show, as well as leaving a review. As a gift as well as leaving a review. As a gift as well as leaving a review. As a gift for listening, go to drlismd.com/hotness for your free midlife guide filled with for your free midlife guide filled with powerful support for your mind, body, powerful support for your mind, body, powerful support for your mind, body, and soul. Because you can embrace your and soul. Because you can embrace your and soul. Because you can embrace your hotness at every age.