Be VicTORIEus Ep. 83

Book Announcement and ACEs Introduction 0:00

Hey, you guys. It's me, Dr. Tori. My book is officially out. And yes, it is time to talk about ACEs. You guys can find the books everywhere. However, I would encourage you, guys, to go to my website, bevictorious.com, and place your order today. Yes, It is Time to Talk About ACE's. Let's go, y'all. Hello, hello, Hello you guy. Welcome to another episode of Be Victorious! Let me tell yall something. I am so excited about the guests that we have. When I tell you, I have to say thank you to my brother Calvin.

Of course, we're going to get back together. We're gonna do our podcast. I met this wonderful, intelligent black young lady through him. She came on the live and we had been connected ever since. It has been my pleasure to watch her as she has had this baby three weeks ago. Dr. Cherry Jones is here, you guys, and for you all that don't know, she is one of my favorite family therapists.

Welcoming Dr. Cherry Jones 1:24

Where are you, Dr Jones? Hello, thank you so much for having me. It's a joy, it's pleasure to be here, to share space and time with you. So thank for you having. You're such a blessing. I think it is the support for me, because you have been very supportive of this journey that I've been on in regards to educating the world about ISIS. And I thank so you much, for your support. You just had a baby. I did. And I was like, let me come on here and let, um, Let me see what one, this lovely doc is about.

Your name is everywhere. You've been doing so many things. He's been telling the community about ACES. And we know that you are now like the ace's doctor. You are the queen. And so I want to as much as I wanna give and pour into you, I would love for you to pour it into me as well and for us to continue to do so. Our community is all of that because that's what I believe is what has helped me grow. I think this has turned into what we call the ACE method, the awareness community and empowerment.

Because Calvin believed in me, I've been on his show several times. He is the teacher of the year and he hates when I say it, but he is an amazing teacher. And I was in education. So just, you know, the transition of being in a classroom and being online has been interesting like marvelous like you can do this and I'm like, Are you serious. In the episodes like this, as someone that has been supportive, I have to say thank you before we even begin, because honestly, it's people like you that this is the reason why it is growing and glowing.

And this the Cyclebreaker series, and I think that ignited a lot of people to really want to learn about ACEs because of that. So from doctor to doctor, I honestly think that's what it is because our community does not want to talk about ACEs at all. We don't want to talk about it, but we talk it every day, right? We, we don' want t talk. But it's something that we definitely talk abou in a different way every d. Um, so I'm, I' excited to tk about i, especially from a fami therapist perspective.

Family Background and Childhood Trauma 4:06

Yes. So let's start off. You do know about Asis. When did you find out about ASIS? It was in my master's program, honestly. So I went to University of Michigan and I don't think that I was kind of privy or aware of ACEs, possibly because of my childhood trauma. And you know, with ACE, they say like up until like, it's your first 18 years of life. Right, so thinking about undergrad, you still like on that brink of being 18-years-old. I think because I fully inundated with childhood I wasn't even aware of what ACEs was, me being self-aware of my own trauma and that nature.

So I became fully aware it during my master's program, so in Chicago at Adler University. Okay. And before I didn't, I've introduced you. I thought it was a pretty good introduction, but as we continue going, we'll go over the things of being You know, going to college, getting your doctorate degree, those type of things too, because I think as African American women and being in the 2%, that's another success of being a cycle breaker. So even with that, you know. I'll talk about the fact that I admire your family.

Of course, You and your husband. you know, what you all are doing as a family. I mean, I think it really needs to be introduced to some, if that makes sense. Thank you. Yes. Well, for me, and I'll talk about my family of origin and then family creation. So with my family of origin, family therapists would be used as, OK, how did you grow up? Who did your grew up with? who was around you? And so I like to share that I had like a peekaboo father, so he'd be in and out. And like the times like where he would not be as present, it would range from three months to a year, a or two.

So I am the middle child of five beautiful, amazing, lovely Black women. Um, we were raised by my mom here in Detroit, born and raised Detroit. Good old shout out to Cynthia Louise Taylor for raising us. And, um, so birth order is very important to me because, you know, with every birth you have a different mom and dad. So I have tried to think about that and consider that as I had grown up looking back on it. Um but we weren't raised like in. the hood of Detroit. Yeah. And so being raised in in poverty, I believe that that is community violence.

So when I look and I see that on aces, i'm always like being mindful of where poverty stands and what choices you have within that and how you are self aware, self conscious, so confident, even within those experiences. Um, So yeah, that's a bit a or who I grew up with. That's it, you said it. So we know you are aware of ACEs. We know when, we now why. In your ACE score, what's your ACES score? I have a lovely seven. Seven out of 11. And I think what I love about it is who cares. It's more or less an awareness tool.

And I think once people understand that, then we'll be fine. It's the awareness for me. That's why I'm pushing for just ACES 101, let me tell you what it is, that type of thing, because we don't. And i think it's because the generation that I came in, like I graduated in 1995, ACEs did not exist at all. I know, right? I But yeah, no, for real. I'm serious. They didn't have that. 1995 to 1997, Dr. Andrew Felitti and Robert Ando were conducting the study. This is the second largest study, and I know you know that, is this is second-largest study in the United States.

Over 17,000 people took this study they came up with the word or the acronym Adverse Childhood Experiences in 1998. 1998 was a great year, by the way. Graduated in 99, so I was excited. I, was introduced to it back in the day.

Understanding ACE Scores and Professional Growth 9:00

So shout out to Dr. Robert Kreiner, I loved research, but I didn't know what to do with it. And I think this is the reason why it's always full circle for me because I started off undergrad psychology. Yeah, just didn' know, what the deal with. However, That childhood trauma was real, because I definitely did not want to go to college. I was forced. So I think that's where mentorship comes in for me, but that only because of understanding ACEs. Didn't know about categories, didn't about any of that.

Just lived my unresolved childhood, trauma life. Hmm. And I'm thinking about like, just how you use the word forced because people were making you go or did you feel as though you had to go? I didn't want to be at home. You know what I mean? After I went through everything that I was going through, I just didn t want I'm not doing that. Let me go to college. I think that's what we're supposed to be doing, going to the college, and I went to College. Kicked it, kicked it hard. And when I get that, that note that says you're on probation, I said, oh, i gotta do what I gotta to do.

You see what i'm saying? But for somebody that is seriously a first generation high school graduate, just me graduating from highschool was a big deal. Yes. And you want to talk about ACEs? Yes, it's near and dear to me. So I think that's what, and I'll ask you, how has understanding your ACE score helped you grow professionally and personally? Professionally, It has allowed for me to be more culturally sensitive. professional, you never know like anyone's background, especially until like they share or if you have been a witness to it as well.

So, as you go higher and higher up, it's a way in which you tend to portray yourself. There are mannerisms that you try to cling to that either like Where you try to hide, where you've come from in terms of your past, or you still have shame and guilt from where have come or what you have experienced. And so just as you said before, like ACE is being used as a tool, it not necessarily defining who you are as person. So for other people still within their professional experience, they still feel as though their childhood experiences define who they are.

Try not to lean into those childhood memories at all, being far away from it. And so when I say witness it. as I've developed my professionalism, my self-confidence in my career, I been able to like meet people where they are. And it's like, okay, well, one, remember you from past childhood experiences and how have you made it from then? And then I'm saying, mm, no, don't wanna go there. But me like just embracing it and saying okay this is an experience that I have had, but it doesn't define me.

Who have experienced these things, who end up in the room with us today. And so like using it as my testimony, using get as a way to highlight my spirituality, how God has been good to me, but then also how I've just used it to make it in a sense. So not using as something to boggle me down as await. Because I have before we talk about within a says, I think it was like whether or not you feel as though you're important and I thinking about self confidence in that way. And then it being a risk factor for September suicidal awareness month.

being like a risk factor for you, like taking your own life, for being a part of risky behaviors. And so using it as a tool professionally in order to help me with my clients, in or to me help with myself in those rooms with people who haven't experienced the same things that I have in my childhood. But then, you know, being able to use it a non-defining force for me. That's been very powerful. Personally, it helps with mothering, with parenting, re-parenting myself, being in community with my husband, and being able to say, okay, yes, although we are Black people, we still have different lived experiences because me having my ACEs score, my husband might not share that same ACE score.

And so knowing that those are two different cultural dynamics that are at play. So personally having to say, okay, yes, even though we have these shared experiences, some of these experiences aren't necessarily the same and that's okay. We can still work through and communicate what that looks like for us. Let me tell you something. Lets put a pause right here. This is also the reason why you hear people run from therapy so bad and I just don't understand why. And so this is another reason we're here.

We've had several therapists as you already know that have been on here, so shout out to Mr. Charlie. I definitely have to introduce you to him. Yeah, Mr Manifest. I'm getting back to Detroit because I have no other choice. I met some valuable people there and you are there. When we talk about community and the awareness and in the understanding, I think this is the reason why you're also here because there's nothing wrong with therapy. There's this stereotype that there is something wrong And I just don't understand why.

So to have this conversation and say, hey, this is what she's doing, I think for us, the ones that support you, not just in your ministry, because it's a ministry to me, for you. I'll be honest.I thought it was amazing to watch you and the love of your children and how you really don' t hide that. l think that's wonderful thing to see. We watched it. You know what I mean? Like we watched. It was fun. Some people don't even have that opportunity because you have to hide yourself from the world. but you also letting people know that you really don't have to, especially being a therapist.

So congratulations. Thank you. And with that, our boundaries. Because as I am on social media, there are so many things that I do not share. There's a difference between secrecy and privacy. I'm honestly a very private person, but when it comes down to family, when comes to awareness, You trying your best to make sure that your community members know that just like you go and see a dentist for your health, your oral health. You go, and get your eyes checked. you're going to get you hair done. Go and make that physically you are okay.

Like your OB, seeing your PCP. As a therapist, we have to be sure our heart and our spirits are ok. And so it's necessary, and I'm like, this is a necessary part of life. And those are some of the pieces that I tend to share, like those necessary parts, experiences of live that everybody shares,

Therapy, Boundaries, and Community Support 17:00

that everyone goes through. Some I may not share. A lot I do share but your therapist is just a regular person. Exactly. Mm-hmm, a real person, trying to make it work. just like everybody else, going through and picking apart their own childhood experiences, the childhood of drama. Exactly. Going to show up to family dinners. family breakfasts with people that they don't want to. But boundaries are like, what's key? What are the boundaries and how you sticking to them? You've said the key words, even key terms people don' know.

We highlight the ones that we need and then put an emphasis on the one's that, we actually really don''t want, to like red flags or protecting your boundaries. What's something you wish people understood like that? They don's talk about enough. I feel as though there's so many. Like one of the things that I wish people understood that. But now I'll share with you this. Go ahead. Hi. Have I'm opening up. Very private to this conversation thing. But I cannot help but to be traumatized by what's going on in Chicago.

Like, this is ridiculous. I know for a fact, because I've done research there, the numbers have went down in regards to violence. They're not up there in numbers. So why are you really bullying us? So I'm triggered. You know what I mean? That's another hyphenated word that people kind of use and misuse because they don't know it is. I shared it today. I told the lunch and learn. And I said, I had to share this because I want you guys to know. Yeah. It, while it's on the news and it might not be a big deal to anybody else, this is a bit deal for me.

How have you been sitting with it as, as you are thinking about it, today, just in this space? I think me sharing it helped. Hmm. That was how I felt. I'm used to holding stuff in, and I am learning not to, you know, release, because the stress holds on in me. And I tell you, I got therapists, coaches, the whole nine trusts. It helps me to get it out. So I feel like, let me do this and let educate you guys because people are coming to me for education. Adverse childhood experiences based off of this book, it has taken me a year.

It's really a big deal. And I know that it is, but sitting in it, is like, It feels great because people are like yeah, I need books. I mean this, what's next? Like, What's your next steps? So that's why it's great to do the cycle breaker series. So people know, that there are next step for people that have ACES. We all have it. One of the things, many things which you brought up that I wish people understood was I wrote something down. One, words, using words correctly, knowing your terms, know the definitions for things.

Even within ACES, as I go through the assessment, I'm like, well, someone's definition for this might be a little bit different. So really making sure that we don't assume. I wish that, we understood that as well. Knowing what it is that you're talking about, being able to communicate even more, getting it out is always better than holding it in. It's always people understood that make sure that you that, you get it out in some type of way to someone, a trusted person, trusted someone. The other thing is not everybody is a therapist.

I wish people understood that as well. Not everybody is a therapist, but I'm so glad that you have somebody to talk to, a supportive person to speak up to and to to top with your issues about, because that's a protective factor. Yes. And so, yes, we do have these average childhood experiences, But then also looking at what are the protective factors that You do Have as Well. Right. I always let everyone know because I am an educator. I am not a therapist. I always make sure to have therapists in the room, therapists and or coaches.

That's another thing people have to understand. There's different types of therapy. Every therapist may not, but I do know of people that use the ACES assessment as an intake assessment. Maybe I use it as part of my intake. That's another reason why she's here guys, I knew that that's our bond. Yes. So you have to understand how valuable this tool is and I think people are now more because again now I have I'm getting calls from the research. of it now, like, okay, let's get the research. So you're doing research for real.

Live case studies, yes, this is what I do for a real, so there's so much more than this woman just yelling about it. I'm in it for, real I cannot help it, So having these conversations are important because it's bringing awareness in communities where it is needed, especially in our communities. You're in Detroit, I had to do everything starting in Chicago, because I represent Chicago. Yeah. So I had to, and that's, that what it is for me. And you have been a part of the movement. I want to say since the beginning.

Well, I've seen you, the lunches came a little bit later for. I was there when you were talking, was it at night? I'm trying to think of when it was. Okay. It was at. I started on clubhouse. And it wasn't my thing because I in schools and I. Was racially discriminated against for the last time I could not take it. Here I am. Leading a worldwide movement. It's an amazing thing to see because people are really linking up. There is a young lady who is going to graduate in December in Liverpool. You can link ACES up to so many things, and I think that's what people have to understand, that it really is doing this.

A young Lady at Wayne State, Tasia Gamble, just did her capstone. She sent everything to me. I was supposed to be up there last year for the conference and missed it due to my health, but when I went up this year, they rolled out the red carpet. I met so many valuable people there. They're building a community, a real strong community there, I know it. I will be back with Calvin. No, for a fact, I'll be that for sure. Because I like when I would come and visit his show, too. Yes. I love it. And then, of course, like with using the ACEs scores, that being like an awareness piece that we can take into the school system, into therapy, what that looks like surrounding mental health for families, especially when I do therapy work with moms.

It's a whole like ACE's question concerning like your mom, concerning your parent, your caregiver. So I think of things like that, not only, What's on the ACES assessment? But then I also think about like, what's not there? What not present? Right. What more can someone share and tell me that is not like necessarily there on assessment as well? And so I'm wondering, I wonder for you, when it comes down to folks like having questions about the aces assessment and them giving you feedback about what isn't there, if this is something that occurs, What do you do?

Honestly get a lot of feedback that and that's how I like to value that feedback. So like there's a young lady who believes that adoption should be an adverse childhood experience.

Using ACEs in Practice and Research 26:00

And so I want to be supportive of her. And I advocate for it because I believe it need to be on there too. You see what I'm saying? So it's like, it just really depends. Now, this is the one that I use is a live study. It's mine. I got that from the CDC, you know, permission, and people can do it by respect. There are different types of ACEs quizzes out there, but mine is used. but that is that data that you can use. I have therapists, I had coaches, i have had school districts, have people ask and I actually generate a personalized Aces quiz, because I have a lot of therapists that use it for their intake, like how you use, it, for your intake with therapists, that used their questions respectfully for there intake.

So I add the aces put theirs on there and they have their own live data. Yeah, I'm real heavy into this ACES thing, seriously. I love it. And of course, we need folks like you who are not necessarily going, because of, course you multifaceted, Black woman. But of of we talk about going into a realm of things versus going more in depth and having more breadth of certain aspects of mental health, certain aspect of trauma. And I think that's what you do. Yes. That's it. I tell people I stay away from the, I don't want, please do not call me for therapy.

that is not what I do at all. And not to take away. From you all, you are lovely. Well, have had some fun nominal and I have to shout her out. Candice Washington is out here doing her thing. She was like episode 20 or 30 and shared her story about her suicide. And when I tell you she works for NAMI right now. So I really am heavy into this mentorship thing too. And I think people coming on the podcast start to ask questions like how you're asking and we develop our friendships and our relationships.

Because like, I'll be honest, what you did when you were going through your pregnancy, I thought it was seriously an amazing sight to see. And I'm ready to say what your next steps are going to be, because I don't know how you're going go back to work. I think you should stay home and be a mom. Sorry, I do. That's only because you did so well with doing that part. But this is what we do, so let me ask you something that is not on the questions. What are your steps? I know the baby is fresh and she's weeks old, but what's the next steps?

The next step I feel would definitely be me either opening up my own practice, me of course and my husband doing some curriculum writing, doing lots of coaching, lots of touring and giving folks feedback on like what it is that they're doing in terms of parenting and how to parent better or just how communicate better when it comes down to promoting lovely, healthy families. That has been like our, that's been honestly like at the core. Oh my God, please use us. And not wait to introduce us to Mr.

Trump, because this is who we were looking for. This is what he has already done. He has panels where he asked couples that have that conversation. Um, he is the person that I'm using. We did the barbershop and the sister talk and it went well. Shout out to who he had. They were phenomenal. So it's kind of, I just want to see how this community thing is going to happen and work. And it is working. I mean, it's amazing. So just know that this is how community is formed. Here it just us having this conversation and networking and communicating.

It's how that awareness community and empowerment goes. You want to be around people, you guys, that know about your experiences. you don't have to hide them. Don't pour on them every time. The fact that you're in a community that knows that You have an ACES score, you have a story, and you're ready to start your journey to healing. So I think that's what it is for me. Community is one of those protective factors, especially when you are one those folks who have a high ACES score, where you're someone who is just starting your career path, really getting your feet on the ground within your careers, trying to figure out what your next steps are.

our childhood trauma comes up in those times during transitions the most. And so one of the things that we tend to do is kind of like isolate ourselves during transition and transitional periods. So I want you to know that I use this as an experiment for me because Ms. Tabitha Brown said, do something that you haven't done before. This is my second time that i've been on a podcast And I haven't done it by myself. So I've done a podcast before Black Friday's podcast. Shout out to Denzel Turner. Um, but I haven't done a podcast by myself.

And so I was like, let me try something new because her book, new things do something. Yes. Days. Let me, try. Something new. But I tend to isolate myself because of my childhood trauma and experiences. I'm one who always pushed community community, that at the end of the day, I might, okay, know that I can trust myself more. And so let me do things on my own. Look at what we just did. Come on, man. Because this is what have to do, you guys. So if you could say one thing to someone beginning their healing journey, because they're going to take their aces quiz after watching this episode, I promise.

What would you say to some one beginning that journey? What's their steps? If you are beginning your journey, please know to take it one day at a time. I did not know that I would be here at 33 years old, just 17, 18 years ago. At 15, I told myself that would not be hear by the next year. And then I was told to just trust God. Just take your one-day at the time, Can I see you tomorrow?

Healing Journey, Next Steps, and Closing Remarks 33:00

Am I gonna be able to see your next week? Try, give it a try. Just through the next day. See what you do when you have like an area of gratitude. Give one thing that you're thankful for within this next thing. And then let me see you do it again for the next day, take it back up that following day. And here I am a few years later with kids, being present for them. I would have known that I'll be celebrating not only my birthdays to come after 15, but then also their birthdays too come. God bless you.

God bless you too. This is the reason why we hear you guys. The cycle breaker series is bringing some power and I think that's the. Also why it's working because God know who his people are time to open up the door to something we should have been talking about a long time ago. I think we're the generation to do that. Now, yes, I am 48. Love it. And I that's because of all the history that I have experienced. It's humbling to see your generation wanting to take this action. You know what I mean?

Yes. And I'm so thankful that we're on this journey together in this lifetime. And we gonna continue to do so in the following lifetimes. Absolutely. I'll be right there. Let's be clear, because just to see you all, I mean, she has twins. When I meet this young lady, and I have been watching her, just love on her mama. It's just an amazing thing to see. That's the reason why the ACE method is working and people are like, tell me more about the ace method. It really isn't hard once you find your community.

You have to find it though. Find that community and you've been a part of mine for a while. I want to again, thank you so much for being here. Is there anything you want tell our audience in regards to understanding ACEs? When it comes down to understanding ACEs, I feel as though you should definitely talk about it with someone else. As you continue to become aware of what your ACE's mean to you, your score means to it's so important to then talk about it with somebody else so then they can be aware of their score of, their ACEs and then being community with someone else to share it, with, someone, else.

I think that it is powerful when we use our stories and our shared experiences to, then, gather the troops and tell others about, it as well. That awareness piece goes a long way. It does. And I will share it has it. This is an international podcast. It has been used educationally. I think that is the added value for me. What made me take the podcast part more seriously now, because during the live podcast and during that ACES international conference hit. It hit, I knew, but I didn't know until I got the feedback from the people overseas that said, yes, you know, the in Nigeria really enjoy, Portugal, like, and I really didn' know.

So I think that's the reason why I have to continue doing this because look at the added value you just added. and then look at you coming out of your shell because you're going with us, let's be clear. The family couple having the conversation, there's doulas out there, you can pour into so many people just by being you. And I think that is the rare authenticity of being in this community that has been faith-based and driven since I started. I don't hide that I stepped out on faith and took this.

What else could I do? Every time I go to a school, they try to demeanor me and make me different, all because I'm an educated black woman with a degree. But look what you've grown. And so we got work to do because, again, you know how this is needed in your community enough to know that you said it. I was just waiting those magic terms. Yeah, I think it's going to be a lot of value within you working for yourself. Absolutely. And I don't think I ever want to go back. My daughter's running for homecoming.

Come on, daughters. Listen. I don't have my love for them. Honestly, what it is with me being with myself, I can be that mom. So I think that's another bond. When you're an administrator in a school and you have to be there for this meeting, you I think that too was another sign from God saying, yeah, let's let you step out on faith and do it. This is important in so many different directions. Yeah. So I'm gonna let her go ahead and homecoming it out. Here we go. And I that's the thing that people need to see for those who understand what cycle breaking looks like.

Because again, you just told your story. You just tell your And I need to know that you're a blessing. I knew you were a blessings from day one. And thank you, seriously. Thank you for allowing me to have this space. thank You for allow me the time. Of course, you know, I was thinking about September and I said, Oh, goodness. Oh goodness, i didn't know I wasn't going to talk about Mars for. So thank for me. Because the crazy thing is we are packed like when I mean packed. Like, I went from, hey, cousin such-and-such, you know, like, or hey.

Now it's like okay, let me fill out this social, Let me do this and let schedule and do. This because that's a blessing to me. It is an amazing blessing. So I thank you. I'm gonna see what I can work out. i have to get this out here within because people need to know. And I am not saying that in this way, not to say it would make an impact without what i'm saying is, I know I see how the Lord is moving and have never, ever redirected, but I have to go with the grace of God. I has to, because this is how I had grown.

Seriously. Watch it. Amen. Well, I'm excited for the things that you are going to continue to do. Thank you. So you have been doing just watching. Thank you so much for your consistency and your diligence. It's really, really inspiring to see you. I'm like, goodness, okay, she is, for sure, like consistent. We're talking about ACEs. Let me make sure I am being consistent, so I actually know because of you and you're consistency. This helped me a lot. Thank you. I heard that before. And that's so wonderful to hear because people have said it like, man, you are really good at this ASIS thing.

i'm learning a lot. It's like thank you, I cannot give up on what I believe in. it changed my life for real. and just putting it out there, just having it. And then you get the staff that I talk to, the people, my cohort, everybody, y'all. I promise you, this is what my dissertation coach asks me, what do you want to do? So that's the reason why the book is going so well. So again, as much as I want to be private, it kind of got that personal addition. It's going to come. Understand this is what cycle breaking looks like.

And that is the reasons why you're here. I look forward to more collaborations. Look forward more ways where people can understand and feed off of you because you are so valuable. it being the entire truth to me. So let people know where they can find you. Thank you, Queen. You can found me right at Dr. Cherry Jones on Instagram. Please share my email with anyone who would like to find me there or send me a note or sent me anything, questions, comments, concerns, but then also psychology today if you need a therapist.

Because we got work we gotta do you guys. Yes and if you want to follow our family at Just Jones LLC on Instagram as well. There is a variety of things. There are a lot of individuals. I want you guys to know she has been a part of the community. Trust me, this is Dr. Cherry Jones. This is someone who, when I tell you she's in it, she is in just the way that she feeds, the she educates. You guys should be definitely following her after this so you will see more things from us and you'll see collaborative, informative discussions.

Thank you, guys, again. You have reached another episode of Be Victorious, and we will see you guys soon. Bye-bye, you guy.