Full Transcript Introduction to Breast Cancer Prevention 0:00 Welcome back and glad you're joining us on this cancer prevention summit. 0:05 And today, of course, I'm so excited to be interviewing my daughter, 0:09 Cara Fuhrman, a natural physician who's actually devoting 0:13 most of her efforts to specialize in breast cancer prevention. 0:18 So it's really one of her tremendous interests and specialties. 0:22 And obviously we work we work together in a lot of aspects of our careers. 0:27 So, Cara, so I'm going to talk to you today, 0:31 particularly reinforce some of these more controversial issues 0:35 in breast cancer screening and of course, and prevention. 0:39 But you and I both are on the same page here that whenever 0:43 we're talking about screening, that's not the most important issue. 0:47 The most important issue is what really prevents breast cancer 0:51 really can really save women's lives, which is not screening. 0:54 So if you could just reinforce the like 1 or 2 minutes, 0:57 a few sentences on what real prevention is with regard to breast cancer, 1:02 I have a really unique experience 1:05 where you showed me something most kids 1:08 never see throughout my whole entire life, and that's that. 1:12 Cancer is common, but largely preventable. 1:15 And that's based on what you're eating. 1:18 Our lovely acronym G bombs, greens, beans, onions, 1:23 mushrooms, berries and seeds being some of the most anti-cancer foods. 1:27 Especially doing this in an easy way, like putting flaxseeds on your food 1:32 makes a huge difference. 1:33 And you've taught me that from the moment I was born and showing us 1:37 that you can really control your outcomes with diet and keeping your body 1:42 fat, low, exercising, having low stress, 1:46 and living a lifestyle 1:49 that is going to prevent you against cancer. 1:53 Right. 1:53 And that's the main message is that we continue this has freedom 1:56 from worrying about cancer and other diseases.
Why Lifestyle Matters More Than Screening 2:00 When you live a life with good exercise, good nutrition and reducing stress, right? 2:06 So clearly the people miss the whole point. 2:08 They think that and they think that like mammograms save lives, right? 2:12 They think that mammograms saved lives by 40. 2:16 And they're just and and it takes the focus off there, 2:20 the fact that they're in control 2:21 of their risk factors by what they put in their mouth. 2:23 And they and they think that now they're it's all about medical care 2:27 and not lifestyle medicine. 2:28 Right. 2:29 So let's just discuss that right off the bat. 2:32 What is it. What about when people say, 2:34 oh you're discouraging people from getting mammograms. 2:36 You're you're going to harm women and kill them because mammograms 2:40 saves lives and reduces breast cancer deaths by 40%. 2:46 This is what they throw out loose breast cancer deaths by 40%. 2:49 So I know we've talked about it. 2:50 We just hit that hit that topic one more time about what is true here, 2:56 how much mammograms can help or not at all, or mostly harm. 3:01 Well, you said that mammograms 3:03 can reduce breast cancer deaths by about 40%. 3:06 And first off, that's more like 5 to 10% or not. 3:10 Not significant at all. 3:12 When you look at the decades of data with more recent trials, 3:17 including the most rigorous randomized controlled trials, including the Canadian 3:23 National Breast Screening Study, which had a 25 year follow up, 3:27 showed no significant reduction in breast cancer mortality for women aged 40 to 59. 3:33 And then you take a look at the Cochrane meta analysis that had over 600,000 women 3:39 looking at all cause mortality, showing no difference 3:43 in overall mortality between screened and unscreened groups. 3:48 And another point is that it's irrelevant to, say, breast cancer mortality, 3:53 because if they're dying of another cause, why do we care if breast cancer 3:57 mortality is reduced? 3:58 We care about overall mortality. 4:00 And that's what she we should be looking at. 4:02 So the picture is just not as clear and a lot more messy 4:06 because the some studies show that modest mortality reduction 4:10 but others show none and they all share the same message. 4:15 And that's overdiagnosis. 4:17 We're finding cancers that would never have harmed a woman. 4:21 We treat them aggressively. 4:23 And then we call that life saving. 4:25 But that women goes on five years later, then die of cardiovascular disease. 4:30 So it's not as simple as that one statistic. 4:34 It's much more complex. 4:36 And there's a lot more things to look at. 4:38 Right. 4:39 So any any person using the whole term reducing breast cancer deaths, 4:43 throw that person that whole argument to be thrown out the window. 4:47 Because if breast cancer deaths even used a little bit 4:49 or however to reduce, it doesn't matter if they're causing other deaths. 4:52 You're saying, right. 4:53 And you do that for all mortality, all cause mortality, right? 4:58 So overall mortality is insignificant affected.
Mammogram Limits, Overdiagnosis, and Mortality 5:02 But there's some. 5:03 You know, there's some advantage to screening women, 5:06 especially women who don't live healthfully. Right. 5:08 So that's where I think that's where you and I have both 5:13 invested into the science about 5:16 imaging and been convinced to adopt it 5:19 and use it as a modality that women who want to get screened 5:24 can use imaging without radiation that can damage the breast, 5:28 and without the misdiagnosis and overdiagnosis. 5:33 That's so common in mammograms, right? 5:36 Yeah. 5:37 I'm not telling women that finding cancer is a bad thing to do. 5:42 I'm saying that mammograms aren't the only way to find it, and they create 5:46 far too many false positives and false negatives, and they expose 5:50 the breast tissue to radiation. 5:52 They expose you to unnecessary going for unnecessary biopsies, 5:55 and all of that matters. 5:57 And now we have a better technology that exists. 6:00 So it's not don't screen. 6:01 It's luring your options and see what else is out there. 6:03 And be informed before you go into your doctor's office 6:07 and deciding if you want to get a mammogram, right. 6:11 So cute is how does she prevent overdiagnosis? 6:16 So we're saying that imaging 6:19 will prevent the woman needing to go for a biopsy, 6:22 because the biopsy readings are not 6:25 by the pathologists, are not accurately diagnosing cancer. 6:28 They overdiagnosis cancers and they send people into treatment 6:32 cascades that are not needed. 6:34 And how does Kutty prevent that? 6:36 Because she is 40 times more clear of a picture 6:40 than MRI, and 20 times more clear of a picture than mammogram. 6:43 And it can see masses very, very, very clearly 6:48 with a 3D imaging calculating their volumetric size. 6:52 And so with Kutty, 6:54 if we find something that looks suspicious, meaning it, you know, 6:59 has a clinical cancer appearance that the density and the clinical context 7:04 we can send you for a biopsy if it's straightforward 7:06 like the mass is speculated, it's a solid mass. 7:08 But most findings that we're finding with screening, 7:11 whether it's mammogram MRI, aren't clearly suspicious, they're ambiguous. 7:16 And they have a similar form to assist or a fiber adenoma, 7:21 a non-cancerous, a benign abnormality, let's say, in the breast. 7:25 And so we can change the game where it can measure that size 7:29 very accurately, instead of biopsy, something that we're uncertain about, 7:34 we bring you back in 4 to 6 months 7:36 to reskin it with no harm to radiation, with any radiation. 7:40 And we measure the size of the mass 4 to 6 months later 7:44 to calculate how fast it grows in size. 7:47 Because average cancers double about 120 days, 7:52 some can be less, but benign things take a lot longer. 7:55 They might even get smaller. 7:57 Or maybe not take 7:58 maybe not double in size at all, but it could take 300 days or longer. 8:03 So we know that if the lesion hasn't grown meaningfully in 4 to 6 months, 8:08 we know that it's not the threat we're worried about. 8:11 And the biopsy then becomes unnecessary, which is very, 8:15 very important because the biopsy is the problem. 8:18 The biopsy is what's leading to overdiagnosis. 8:21 And with Kutty using this approach, we can prevent 8:25 about 80% of biopsies in this country that are done on benign disease. 8:30 And that really matters because the pathologist 8:32 looking at the dead cells under a microscope cannot tell 8:35 if this cancer is aggressive and needs to be treated, 8:37 or if it's benign and doesn't need to be treated. 8:39 But what can tell is the doubling time with imaging, right? 8:44 So cutesy imaging is more accurate than the biopsy in many cases. 8:48 Except of course, when when you know it's more of a definitive cancer, 8:51 then you might go straight to a biopsy if the identifies it as cancer 8:54 right off the bat. 8:55 But I think that's the issue here is people don't realize 8:57 that radiologists are taught if there's one in a 50 chance of something
How CUTE Imaging Reduces Biopsies 9:02 being abnormal in the being cancer, just 1 in 50, by the way it looks. 9:07 They send it on for ultrasound guided biopsy, right? 9:10 They send it on to the next step and then into those. 9:12 So even 1 in 50 chance you send for a biopsy. 9:15 So all these thousands and thousands of women 9:17 calling for biopsies all the time creates an unbelievable amount of fear. 9:20 And then you get mistaken readings from the biopsies that aren't accurate 9:24 which further compounds this. 9:25 So this is more information. So yeah. 9:28 So I think that was good. That was good. 9:30 You said all I guess the next question I have 9:32 is that since you and I are so lifestyle medicine driven 9:37 and convincing the population that nutritional excellence 9:42 and the portfolio and nutrition and diet is so incredibly 9:46 protective against breast cancer, then why do any screening, why 9:50 why are we advising, imaging or are we advising imaging? 9:54 In other words, why bother with any imaging 9:57 if you're going to be protected with your lifestyle? 9:59 Yeah, that's a really good point because screening is not as important 10:03 as eating right. 10:03 But many people haven't eaten right for whole life since childhood. 10:08 That's very rare. 10:09 Most people that start eating rates in the last six months, 10:12 most people I see when they start eating rice 10:14 the last six months and last two years, and they're already 60 years old. 10:18 So we're using this screening method that has no harm to look, you know, really 10:25 look at all the different avenues to prevent 10:28 someone from wondering what's going to happen in many years. 10:32 But we have something that's more accurate that won't harm you. 10:35 And we know that diet is really powerful at reducing risk, but it doesn't mean 100% 10:40 protection if you haven't been doing it since childhood. 10:42 And the risk reduction you have from eating 10:46 a healthy diet is proportional to how long you've been following the diet. 10:50 So screening really is a personal choice, and I think that's important 10:53 for everyone to know as well. Right? 10:55 You don't have to be screened if you don't want to know. Right. 10:58 But I think there's some other advantage there 11:00 because let's say a person has DCIs, right? 11:03 Let's say the screening picks up 11:04 inside two, and we're both agreeing that ductal carcinoma 11:09 in situ shouldn't be called carcinoma because it's not cancer. 11:13 It never kills people. 11:14 It doesn't metastasize. 11:15 It's not invasive. Cancer shouldn't be called gains. 11:17 It just gets people nervous and scared for nothing. 11:20 I mean, sure, a tiny percent 11:21 could go on to become invasive ductal carcinoma, but in any case. 11:25 So now we have a woman who we identified 11:29 ductal carcinoma in situ, which is a precancerous lesion. 11:32 It's not cancerous, but knowing that may be motivational important. 11:39 So this woman now can change a diet, take the right supplements, 11:43 lose weight and prevent that pre-cancerous from decision 11:47 to ever going to become cancer. 11:48 Even the very tiny chance it has it can actually go on to cancer. 11:52 It's like getting a person's cholesterol level and saying your cholesterol is high. 11:56 You don't have a heart attack or heart disease yet, 11:58 but let's get the cholesterol down. 11:59 So here you have some changes in the breast 12:01 that are that are precancerous condition like DCIs. 12:04 Now on the conventional treatment doctors, they'll put a with a mammogram, 12:09 they'll find DCS and they'll go to biopsy and they'll go to have an surgery 12:12 and start treating these people right. 12:14 It was crazy. Right. 12:15 And we can use early screening and early detection to 12:19 as motivation for people 12:20 to go harder on the diet and to supplement properly to exercise 12:24 when before it becomes something that's really severe and really aggressive. 12:28 And then you could follow the cut down the road to confirm 12:32 it's not growing each year, let's say, or every two years. 12:35 And the woman is no at risk. 12:36 She's actually showing that DCIs is actually shrinking, regressing or stable. 12:43 We don't just let them 12:44 develop invasive cancer, even if woods chance of developing cancer from it is 1%. 12:48 Right. So it's so yeah. 12:50 So I think that there is an advantage in women picking up early disease 12:55 that's not cancer, that we can identify it and then we can. 12:59 And even if it is a non aggressive cancer, most the vast majority of the vessel
Dense Breasts, Radiation, and Repeat Screening 13:03 doctor carcinomas and invasive rather carcinomas, the most common 13:07 postmenopausal cancers aren't responsive to chemo anyway. 13:11 Right. 13:11 And still and that means they're more responsive to dietary interventions. 13:15 You know. 13:15 So it's we're still back for the same same thing here. 13:18 But yeah it's like motivational to add to see 13:22 people like to know what's going on in their body. 13:25 Yeah. 13:25 So that's why we say it gives you freedom when you're eating a healthy diet. 13:29 But then screening also gives you a peace of mind 13:32 to know that you're on the right track. 13:34 And if we do catch something early, you can go harder on the diet. 13:36 You can use those nutritional therapies and everything. 13:39 And the really awesome thing about screening with 13:42 is that you don't have to worry about 13:43 if you have an abnormality in the breast or something like DCIs, that you're 13:47 radiating the breast, and you keep adding that radiation exposure on by mammogram. 13:51 And the thing about people who have an abnormality to watch, 13:55 like DCIs, they're usually recommending that they're getting mammograms 13:58 more frequently and then exposing their breasts 14:01 to radiation more often, which the the dense breasts 14:06 and people with DCIs, that breast tissue absorbs more radiation. 14:10 And just putting it down right. 14:12 There could be more damage from the radiation 14:14 from the repeat screenings to make the DCS 14:16 more likely to advance, to become invasive. Exactly. 14:19 So we have this imaging with no radiation. 14:21 There's just no harm in following your case with imaging, 14:25 whereas there is harm in following the case of mammogram. 14:28 Right. 14:28 I wasn't thinking about that, that DCIs actually in conventional 14:32 mammograms are getting more and more screened because people say, oh, 14:35 the radiation you're getting from a mammogram is just like riding on a plane. 14:39 It's insignificant. 14:40 You want to address that quickly? 14:42 Yes, that's a good point. 14:43 It's because that is a really common myth that we hear all the time 14:46 that it's the same as a plane, it's 14:47 the same as a computer, it's the same as a cell phone. 14:50 But that's simply just not true. 14:52 And the radiation that we're getting from 14:55 a mammogram is concentrated in the breast tissue. 14:58 It's not spread all over the body like when you're sitting on an airplane. 15:02 And the ionizing radiation to sensitive tissue accumulates over time, 15:08 with repeated views and further screenings over decades that we continue to get. 15:13 And the other important thing here is that the breast tissue, 15:17 there's three different tissue 15:18 types of tissue that are encapsulated under the skin, in the breast 15:22 that's glandular tissue, which is the tissue that produces milk. 15:26 When someone's breastfeeding, there's a lot of fat in the breast 15:29 and there's connective tissue that holds it all together. 15:31 So when you have more of that glandular tissue, it means you're 15:35 breasts are more dense. 15:36 And that's about half of our population. 15:38 And those dense breasts also absorb more radiation and sustain more damage. 15:44 And then going further into dense breasts, people are often called back because 15:50 mammograms cannot tell the difference between a dense breast and a mass. 15:54 They both show up as white, so masses and cancers can hide within dense breasts, 15:59 so they often require people to have extra views and repeat scans, 16:03 which then just further increases that cumulative exposure to radiation. 16:08 Right. Yeah. 16:09 So it's a real it's a vicious cycle. 16:11 It's good. 16:11 We're talking about this because this is 16:12 that's very difficult for women to grasp this because they're so 16:17 not only misinformed, but they're brainwashed to like a religion, 16:20 to believe that mammograms saves life, to repeat something over and over again. 16:24 And it's like drummed into their, their, their persona, you know? 16:28 Right. 16:28 And we're not saying that, 16:30 you know, 16:30 the radiation from one mammogram in your lifetime is going to cause cancer. 16:34 It's not the single mammogram, but it's the cumulative effect 16:37 across a lifetime of screening. 16:38 And that deserves more informed consent. 16:41 And the main point here is that when we have new advances 16:46 in technology, we have to pay attention to them 16:48 and at least be open to change to learning about these new technologies 16:53 is just a better option with 20 times more clear of a picture and no radiation. 16:57 So I don't really even understand the debate.
Responding to Criticism and Building Trust 17:00 Yeah that's great. 17:01 Anyway, so I noticed in your social media you must have said something 17:05 on social media because I notice somebody said, well, 17:07 you know, well, you're not an oncologist, you're not a radiologist. 17:09 What are you talking about? 17:11 You're not a breast surgeon. 17:12 What? Some why are you talking about breast cancer? 17:14 And why should we trust you 17:15 in order to have this information, you know, to be giving us information. 17:19 So there was this such what's the word backlash? 17:23 Because imaging is a new technology and the manner is entrenched. 17:29 The industry and the are entrenched into the, you know, 17:33 in the medical, pharmaceutical, monetary complex. 17:37 So you're going to get a huge amount of pushback with any new technology 17:40 or ideas that doesn't fit conventional framework. 17:42 And they'll do it by attacking you personally. 17:46 Or, you know, 17:47 I have plenty of personal attacks just because of my outspoken 17:50 stances on things, too. 17:51 But how would you how do you respond to that? Oh, great. 17:53 So I have a great role model model here. 17:55 My mentor is also being attacked. 17:57 I know, I really I came to the medical, 18:00 the medical industry, being from a medical family. 18:04 So it's like 18:04 in Hollywood where someone's an actor and they call them a baby, right? 18:08 Where their parents were also an actor, 18:10 some kind of like a Nepal baby in the medical field. 18:12 And I know a lot of doctors, especially you, 18:15 my great mentor, that's showing me cancer can be something 18:19 we prevent through lifestyle, and that it's not luck of the draw. 18:23 But that isn't the only thing I'm leaning on. 18:27 am not claiming to be a radiologist and not claiming to be an oncologist. 18:30 I'm a licensed natural doctor specializing in breast cancer prevention. 18:35 I am working to understand the data. 18:38 I work with patients to prevent and help supplement their treatment 18:42 and educate them 18:43 on what the science is showing us to optimize both prevention and screening. 18:47 But I do work with a board certified radiologist 18:52 that did her fellowship in breast. 18:54 She's a she, you know, 18:57 had many years of looking at mammograms and MRIs and she's viewing cuts. 19:01 I consult with her. 19:02 I also have a PhD researcher on my team who's saying up to date on all the best 19:07 nutritional research and even research when it comes to screening. 19:10 And then I also am referring people 19:13 to one of the best breast cancer surgeons in the country, in the LA area. 19:18 She's absolutely amazing. 19:19 And I also ask her questions when I have them. 19:22 So I have a lot of guidance, I have a lot of my own knowledge, 19:26 and I practice within a supportive environment of highly 19:29 trained and experienced professionals, including you. 19:32 You are someone that I can always go to every single day 19:36 as my father, as my mentor, as an amazing doctor. 19:39 In addition to all the other doctors, PhD researchers and radiologists 19:43 that are also on my team. 19:44 So I'm not working alone, and I'm not the only one 19:48 behind the care of these patients, right? 19:51 Right. 19:51 The cutesy imaging, we're not reading it, the read by a board certified radiologist 19:55 with a fellowship in breast and breast imaging who are trained in. 19:58 Cute. Right. 19:59 So it's like they're knocking you from and and and not sharing. 20:04 Sharing this information on social media isn't stepping outside of my lane. 20:08 I'm getting those comments. 20:09 A lot of you know, you're not a radiologist, so don't share this. 20:12 I even actually got a comment where someone said, 20:15 you're not a breast cancer survivor, so you cannot speak on this. 20:18 And I'm thinking, does your gastroenterologist have colon cancer? 20:23 Do. Do you want to take advice from people that have already gotten cancer? 20:26 Don't you want to take advice from people who are preventing disease? 20:29 And I find this as us doing our job, helping so many people navigate breast 20:34 cancer through evidence based nutrition, lifestyle, 20:37 supplemental protocols and inform screening decisions. 20:42 So our goal is to help patients understand their options and have more access 20:46 to these comprehensive conversations around breast health. 20:50 Right. Yeah, I think that was good news. 20:52 And you express it pretty articulately. 20:53 And what so obviously 20:57 there is a kickback
New Technology, Education, and Patient Choice 21:00 and difficulty in gaining acceptance of our methods 21:05 and the new technology, in spite of the fact that we have 21:09 that we work with a highly respected and, and, 21:13 you know, medically medical team and in spite of the fact 21:17 we have tremendous experience and focus on research and 21:21 and the science supports what we do, not the conventional treatment, the science 21:25 we have, we can back up what we're saying with scientific references. 21:29 and I just wrote or we just wrote a like a 50 page booklet about this, right? 21:34 That people can download a 50 page booklet about advances in new technologies 21:39 and breast screening and preventing breast cancer. 21:41 So and with with all the references people, all the scientific references. 21:45 And it's not to scare people, it's to offer education 21:48 and for people to be able to make better decisions. 21:49 Because as we were talking about before, this is all a personal choice. 21:53 We're here to share the science, the education with people, 21:57 and they can do what they want with it. 21:59 And so that's why we made this, 22:01 you know, Breast Health and better screening options booklet 22:04 where if you're in San Diego, we're handing them out to anyone that wants one. 22:07 Or we can send it to you on the internet to download as an e-book. 22:11 So we really just want to get the word out there 22:13 and tell people that there's better options, right? 22:16 It's kind of interesting, though, that, you know, we're finding out 22:20 how vehemently and aggressive 22:23 when you can be attacked, when you're in some way 22:28 speaking against the conventional, authoritative recommendations 22:34 from medical industry and all the money behind that, 22:37 how you could so how better, better technology is so hard to go in to move 22:43 the old technology out or to get accepted because there's such a we're learning 22:48 it's very difficult for a new technology to push aside. 22:51 An older technology is not as good. 22:53 I don't even hard to understand. 22:55 Well, you know, it's my money to a degree, right? Absolutely. 22:57 And if you think about that in your everyday 22:59 life, let's take the iPhone and AI technology. 23:02 We're all half robot walking around with our iPhones and AI computer systems. 23:06 If we were as far behind in personal technology 23:11 as the medical field was and medical technology and accepting advancements, 23:15 we would still be using landlines with these cores at in our houses 23:18 and not taking them out with us as cell phones. 23:21 Right? 23:21 Like, to put that into perspective, it shows you how resistant 23:25 the medical field is to new advancements in technology, whereas the modern day 23:29 human is walking around with the next best thing that comes out yesterday. 23:34 Yeah, that's no questions to question. 23:36 If that technology is bad for us, right and right. 23:39 And we're and and the bottom line is the clinicians, 23:43 the doctors, the surgeons, the radiologists 23:46 working with this new technology are finding it more informative, 23:49 more accurate and more helpful 23:51 to guide clinical decision making with their patients. 23:54 Absolutely. 23:55 And the last thing I really do want to point out 23:57 in talking about overdiagnosis and better options, is that 24:02 we do have to realize that when we're 24:04 treating people for breast cancer and they don't need to be treated, 24:07 we're putting them down a rabbit hole down a path of severe suffering, 24:13 anxiety of a cancer diagnosis. 24:16 A lot of the treatments put them into early menopause 24:18 if they haven't gone through menopause already, 24:19 and that causes a lot of brain fog. 24:21 It causes vaginal dryness, and most of the treatments for breast 24:26 cancer are increasing your risk 2 to 3 times of cardiovascular disease, 24:30 which is already the leading cause of death. 24:32 I think it's really important to point that out is that with this new technology, 24:36 we are able to reduce the number of people that are unnecessarily 24:40 being treated with very harmful treatments where you really want to weigh 24:43 the pros and cons. Right. 24:46 All right. 24:46 Well, I think we it was it's good we didn't speak for. 24:49 We went we covered the main points. 24:51 Limited time not to make people go on and on forever in the same subject. 24:55 But thanks a lot for putting your input into this and help people understand 24:58 the concept between that we're talking about and why we are. 25:03 Wiley kind of joined the bandwagon on cue as an ad, as an adjunct 25:07 to to aggressive lifestyle medicine or aggressive nutritional excellence. 25:11 Right? Absolutely. 25:12 We all know someone that was diagnosed with breast cancer or has breast cancer, 25:15 and we're here to help those people reduce those rates and help everyone live 25:19 a happy life. 25:20 Okay, okay. 25:21 Good luck to you all and get back. 25:23 And please follow through on this and give us your feedback and your questions. 25:27 We really just want to be available to be of assistance to you. 25:30 Absolutely. Bye
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