Dr. Nalini Chilkov, D.O.M. – Building A Cancer Fortress: 10 Ways to Build a Body That’s Impenetrable to Cancer

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Hey, it's Nathan Crane, director of the Health and Healing Club and host of the conquering Cancer Summit. And today, I am honored and excited to welcome you to a very special interview, doctrinally, to your curve as a leading edge authority in the field of integrative cancer care, cancer prevention and immune enhancement. She is a creator of the Outsmart Cancer system and the founder of Integrative Cancer answers.com, which is a resource for patients and families whose lives have been touched by cancer.

Doctor Chilcote brings over 30 years of clinical clinical experience, combining the best of integrative medicine and modern and traditional Chinese medicine TCM. She's a highly respected expert in her field, a frequent speaker at conferences, educational institutions, and a trusted resource to the media. She's been recognized by WebMD and Doctor Oz as one of the top ten online influencers in breast cancer. The Cove Clinic is in Santa Monica, California, and she is working with a lot of patients online.

And you can learn more about her and her great work at integrative cancer. Answers.com. Doctor Chilcote, thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for having me, Nathan. So I'd love to just open up a little bit about, the outsmart cancer system. What is that? How did you come up with it? And and what's it all about? So I really think it's important to have a health model as well as a disease model when you have any chronic illness. But in the oncology setting, the word health doesn't even come up.

You know, it's not even in the vocabulary of an oncology clinic. So it's really important to have your disease expert in your team that knows what to do about your cancer. But it's also important to have a team of health experts because patients really want health as their outcome. A patient isn't interested in being cancer free. A patient wants to be healthy and get on with their life and have it not be about cancer. And so unless you really have health as your goal and and have a health plan as part of your implementation, you really aren't going to end up with health because the cancer journey is hard.

And so you need a team. That's number one. You really need a team. And the other thing that's really important and that I speak about in the very first visit with patients, is you're the head of the team. Oncology is very disenfranchizing to patients and can make you feel like somebody just took over your body and your calendar. And it's really up to each individual to make their own informed, educated choices. And so you need to feel that you have a sense of control. So that's really the one of the biggest parts of the outsmart cancer approach is to take charge of your health and to understand that all of the clinicians on your team work for you.

And that psychologically and emotionally is really important because then you feel like you have the way to influence the trajectory of your cancer journey. So that's really important. I think having a plan, having a team and having health is your goal. So that's important to the framework. Another piece of the outsmart cancer framework is to understand that cancer is a whole bio system problem.

Outsmart Cancer System Overview 3:34

It's not about some group of cells that went haywire. And so you have to understand that just like the soil in a garden, the bio system is an environment which is either permissive and supportive of cancer developing and growing, or it's going to be inhibitory of that. And so you want to really understand this bio system that it's complex and multifactorial. So the first idea is that we have soil. We change the soil. We change what grows there. But also in this complexity, I use a metaphor of like a wheel with many spokes.

And every spoke of that wheel is an aspect of this cancer terrain that we need to track and measure and make sure we include in the plan. So let's say you have, breast cancer and you're working with an oncologist and you're having hormone therapy. So that's one spoke on the wheel. But we have 11 more spokes to deal with. And so you don't really have a comprehensive plan if you're not dealing with the whole bio system and all the factors that influence. So some of those folks on the wheel have to do with diet and blood sugar and inflammation and vitamin D and copper and and hormones and toxin and and so and, and your immune capacity.

So we want to address all of those things. So when you do that you have to also understand. And the wheel isn't symmetrical for everybody. It might be weighted one one direction. Let's say you're diabetic and you have cancer. Then really dealing with your insulin and blood sugar is going to really change your outcome. If you're a, patient with autoimmune disease and cancer, then you're more inflamed than other patients. So we have to individualize the care. Also, that's another aspect of this framework.

You know, I love that you, how you said you need a health team or health expert on your team in addition to your disease expert or your disease team. A lot of people don't realize that. You know that when you're going to a conventional medical doctor, they're really great at a lot of things. They're really great at, diagnosing diseases and knowing what they are. And, you know, understanding, how to pinpoint and, all these different things testing and so forth. Right. But they're not really equipped or trained very well to actually, treat or let's say, even cure that disease.

Right. Their, their toolbox is pretty limited. I mean, it's typically surgery drugs, chemotherapy or radiation. So it's good to have that person in your corner, you know, helping you along the way, checking, understanding the disease, you know, testing all of that. But then what you're saying is, look, you need a health expert or health experts on your team because they understand the deeper, as you said, you know, aspects of the bio system, you know, the rejuvenate and the immune system and nutrition and diet and exercise and our minds direct association with in regard to either, reducing disease risk or enhancing longevity or even causing disease.

Right. And so recognizing I love that you really help people start to think of it as, look, you need to build a team around you of people who are experienced in multiple facets of, of health and disease understanding, what does that ideal team usually look like for you or for someone that you might be working with? Well, you know, I'm basically collaborative, and I feel that everybody wins if you have a team that talks to each other. And so I'm going to practice for 35 years and for a long lot of that time in Los Angeles.

So I've focused on building relationships with oncologists and oncology surgeons and radiology, and so that we have a seat at the table that these doctors actually appreciate what we bring to the patient. And because I've been in practice so long in one place, most of the oncologists know me and have seen my treatment plans for patients and my requests for specialty labs, and they also see that with we share patients, they do better. They are able to maintain their health. They have less side effects during treatment, their quality of life is better.

They recover better. They tend to not have as long a time till they have a recurrence or they have no recurrence. And so I have one, very well known ovarian cancer specialist who always says to his patients, okay, I'm done with you, but don't stop working with Nalini because he gets it. He gets how important it is to still tend the bodies so that you don't have a recurrence. Once you've been a cancer patient. So you can think about what, different step parts of the journey are requiring. Because I like to focus on that.

Cancer patients tend to get very overwhelmed. So if we just focus on what's happening in this phase of your journey. So maybe you were just diagnosed and you need to figure out what your plan is and you need to deal with the stress of having a diagnosis and the fear that comes out with that. And cancer happens to a whole family and community. This isn't happening to the patient. So everyone you love is, their buttons, their push, their stuff is up. And, people who love you want to help you, but they don't necessarily know what kind of help really is, is needed.

And so, all of that happens all at once. Patients who have a good support system do better. So I talk about community and family with patients. And then when you're in treatment you have a different set of needs. Do you need to know if your digestive tract has been impacted by your treatments? What can you eat to maintain your weight and to to keep you from having diarrhea or constipation from your treatments or nausea, which keeps you from being able to eat and the quality of your day. Maybe you develop some neuropathy from, from chemotherapy and you need to know how to decrease that and mitigate it.

And then when you're done with treatment, you need to recover from all that. There are both short term and long term side effects. And so being able to repair and restore function is really important. And then hopefully we get to a place where we're living our lives beyond cancer. But there's another segment of patients who are living with cancer as a chronic illness. And that's a large number of people. And oncologists don't have a clue how to really help them long term do well. Right. And so we think about, breast cancer patients who are prostate cancer patients who may have had their disease burden reduced, but they don't have zero disease.

And maybe they're on long term hormonal therapy, and they have side effects of that therapy, and they still have a risk of their cancer blooming again.

Building a Collaborative Cancer Care Team 10:45

And so those people really need a lot of help. And oncologists don't do a thing for those patients. And so the need is actually quite huge. If you think about 1 in 2 people in the United States and Europe, modern countries is going to be diagnosed with some type of cancer in their lifetime. So you're at a dinner party and you pre-COVID and you are are sitting with six people. Three of you are going to have cancer in your lifetime. So that's huge, right? That is huge. So we really need to understand and how to navigate the cancer journey.

But of course we want to focus on prevention as well. So the Outsmart cancer system also educates people about risk factors. So what you eat matters because your food is talking to your genes. And you can turn your genetics for reducing, tumor promoting genes off with your diet. And you can turn on tumor suppressor genes with your diet. And that's why it matters what you eat and you're asleep and your exercise size and your toxic exposures, you can take control of all of these things. And so whether you've had cancer or want to prevent it, these things that are crucial to causing and sustaining health.

So they have to be part of the, the curriculum and, and you have to learn. And so in my practice, I have a functional medicine nutritionist who is also a cancer survivor herself, who helps my patients to implement all the hard things I ask them to do because how we live has more to do with our health than anything in a bottle, whether that's a supplement or a drug. Really, if you don't live a healthy lifestyle, you don't get to have sustained health. So, you know, these are all elements that are an education for some patients who are new to this, you know, one of the things I love about, your work and I know I found, it was either an e-book or something on your website.

There was really about how to create, a body where cancer can't thrive. Right. And you share a lot of information on that and a lot of detail. And people can consult with you and your team and go much deeper. But what I'd love to invite you to do is maybe share, you know, your top ten ways and maybe just a minute or two on on each one. Obviously, you know, you can't cover all of it in an in depth right now, but to give people, you know, top ten ways where they could do all ten starting now at least.

Or they could pick 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 to start creating that, you know, body where where cancer can't thrive. So number one, I have a book by that title. So if people want to take a deeper dive, then they can just go on Amazon. It's called 32 Ways to Outsmart Cancer or How to Create a Body Where Cancer cannot thrive. And then, on my Integrative Cancer Answers website, there's a lot of free information there also about what to do at every stage of the journey. So we already talked about some of the things in a list of ten.

We already talked about, having a team, having your goal be health, having community and a support system, having a lifestyle that causes health, and then, eating a diet that is going to create a bio system that's inhospitable to cancer. So there's a couple of core principles to that briefly. And that is you have to keep your blood sugar and your insulin low. So that means eating a low carb diet. That does not mean eating a keto diet. Okay. Keto diets are therapeutic diets. They're not for the long term.

They're not healthy diets. They're therapeutic diets. They need to be done under supervision. But, diet for, creating a bio system that's more resistant to cancer because tumor cells thrive on glucose and are stimulated to grow by insulin. If you eat a low carb diet, then you take away those growth signals. So that's huge. So your plate will have lots of colorful vegetables on it, half your plate. And that's like eat the rainbow, eat all the colors and all the pigments in plants. Have your diet be plant strong.

So have your plate, colorful vegetables, quarter of your plates can be clean protein. Another quarter of your plate is going to be healthy fats and oils. So there's no grain on that plate. There's no pasta on that flight. There's no fruit on that plate. So you need to learn what healthy fats and oils are. Because when you take the carbs out, you take away a lot of calories and you will lose weight in an unhealthy way if you don't replace those calories. So you need to learn how to put healthy fats and oils into your diet.

And so, I have a bonus for everybody listening, and I'll give you the link at the end to, have some resources to figure out how to implement some of this. So being hydrated is really important. You have to drink enough fluid. It's crucial. Your body has two glands and filter itself with fluid if you get dehydrated, all your barriers, aren't working as a boundary between the external environment and your internal environment. You your, joints will suffer. You can't filter through your kidneys. Your, airways become too dry.

So hydration is important. So all these basics have to be in place. Sleep is important. 7 to 9 hours. In the diet room, I like to recommend intermittent fasting. It has a big impact on insulin and blood sugar and also on, immune capacity. So if you have 13 hours between today's dinner and tomorrow's breakfast. And that's completely doable as a lifestyle, 13 hours a switch happens physiologically, your glucose and your insulin decrease, which stresses tumor cells, makes them, their metabolism slow down.

But also you get this immune switch gets turned on and you get much more robust in your immunity. So what does that mean? Intermittent fasting. It means there's a period of time in every 24 hours where you don't take in calories. So during that 13 hour period you drink fluid. You can drink, clean water, filtered water. You can drink herb teas, you can drink or vegetable broth, but you're not going to take in calories. So your body actually switches physiology during that time. And you can't. And to be clear there too, right.

Everything I've seen and even, researched and experimented with intermittent fasting like, you can't take any fats, obviously, because it turns on, your metabolism is on and you can't take any sugars like so you can't have coffee and milk or I mean, you know, sugar and milk in your coffee, which probably shouldn't be having those in your coffee anyway if you, especially if you're trying to prevent cancer. But, but this first I've heard about vegetable broth, for example. So even a vegetable broth isn't going to kick you out of that intermittent fasting or out of the fasting state.

No, no. You know, cancer patients are fragile, so we don't want to go to any extremes. Right? So we'll get some nice electrolytes, put some potassium and some sodium and some other minerals in the broth. And so that's really good for keeping the physiology in balance. So I'm very middle path so that patients don't do extreme therapies who are vulnerable patients. Right. And most cancer patients are over 50. And so as we age fasting becomes actually, dangerous to us because if you do extreme fast when you're over 50, you lose muscle mass.

And so losing muscle mass is part of aging physiology. It's also a risk with cancer physiology. So preserving muscle mass is very important. So no extreme fasting. And I'll say also protein. There's a sweet spot with protein in cancer physiology.

Cancer Journey Stages and Prevention Basics 18:38

So about 50 or 60g a day is kind of the sweet spot. Now, if you're an athlete or a bodybuilder, then you work with your care provider for what's right for you. But eating excessive protein actually can can fuel cancer because some of that protein can get turned into glucose and so into sugar. And so there's a sweet spot. The other thing that's really interesting is the kind of fiber you eat in your diet and your microbiome. So taking care of your microbiome is one of the ten points. And so you have to eat a lot of vegetable fibers to have a healthy microbiome, a little bit of fermented food in your diet to have a healthy microbiome.

But if you eat like a paleo diet or really strict paleo or a really strict keto diet, your microbiome suffers. You don't have enough plant fibers in there to be the fuel of the healthy bacteria. And so what we've learned is you can take probiotics orally, but they don't colonize. They don't stay in your gut if you don't have the fuel for them in your gut, which comes from plant fibers. So, there's a higher risk of colon cancer, for example, in people who eat pure paleo for long periods of time. And so there there's this sweet spot and this balance, which is why people should not consult Doctor Internet, but you should actually consult experts and be under the supervision of someone if they want to do this.

So they get it right for themselves. Right. And so, those are some of the dietary principles. Eat the rainbow have the right ratio of fats and carbs and proteins, low carb, moderate protein, higher fats. Okay. And then that's an anti-inflammatory diet as well. Those are the diet principles. And then there's a couple of other pieces that are really important. One is to take foundation nutrients. And I will describe those. The other is to have some targeted nutrition fats that are, going to address your risk factors, your cancer risk factors.

And then I also like to put in a therapeutic shake into a protocol. If someone isn't really good at eating well every day, a shake is a great insurance policy because it'll ensure you get your protein. It will ensure you get some fat. Well, I'm sure you get some fiber, and then we can make it therapeutic. So we could put in some of our essential herbal medicines in there. For example, I like to put Chinese or Chinese mushrooms into the shake because I don't have a strong case. They're incredible for modulating immunity and inflammation and controlling tumor risk, but also they are good for regulating blood sugar.

A lot of people don't know that. So that would be like raising mushroom and a derma or turkey tail mushroom Coriolis. So about three grams a day is a therapeutic dose. The other thing is to understand there's a difference between the nutritional dose and the therapeutic dose of an herb or a supplement. So you want guidance. What is actually going to move the needle when you're looking for a therapeutic dose, you need to go higher, but you need to do that safely. So you need some guidance on that.

So those are the three pieces. So let's go through them in more detail. And that ends up being more than ten suggests okay. So the the supplements I think of the foundation supplements. You have unique nutritional needs when your body is stressed by a challenging syndrome like cancer, or if you're going through treatments that are challenging like surgery or radiation or immunotherapy and chemotherapy, your body has more nutritional needs. You want to make sure you have that foundation. So that's going to come from food.

The macro part of it, the micro part of it is you need to be on a good multivitamin, but that has to be iron free and copper free. So that's a special kind of multi because copper and iron promote tumor cell metabolism. So there are a handful of iron free copper female teeth that are around. More recent research has shown us that we think that the tocopherol form of vitamin E is also problematic for cancer metabolism, and we prefer to try kind of in that vitamin E niche. And so I look for, a multi that has Toker try and also in place of vitamin E tocopherol as well.

So special multi then before the next one, I just wanted to ask you so the iron piece I mean what's the balance there for for cancer patients. Because you don't want to be lacking iron to the point you don't fish in and become anemic. Right. But. Well, so typically don't lose iron women menstruating women lose iron. So there has to be a source of iron for menstruating women and, pregnant and breastfeeding women. But the only way to really know is to measure, which is why you want to be under the the care of someone who will take your blood and look at your iron stores.

So when we say we want to keep blood sugar and insulin low, or we want to not increase iron, what we mean is, if you look at a blood test, you want to stay in the lowest quarter of normal, right? So you have enough for normal physiology, but not so much to have, fuel for cancer. So. Perfect. Yeah. So just avoiding excess iron. Excess only health model. Okay. It's still a health mom. Yes. Yeah. And, we have to remember that. So. But what we want to do is create an environment with cancer cells that have unique metabolism, different metabolism than healthy cells have.

We want to take away what causes cancer cells to to thrive. And so we do that by keeping blood sugar, low insulin, low copper, low and iron. Low low normal okay. Low normal. All right. So I have a question for you on the multi-vitamin piece. So you know I was taking tons of capsules for a while I was just like, oh now now I want mushrooms and now I want this and I want that, and these herbs and these are all of a sudden I'm taking like 30 capsules a day, and I know, you know, going down the supplement route that can happen to a lot of people and not recognize actually the damage that those capsules may be having in the intestines in the digestive system.

Right. Because it's so much plant cellulose that's getting stuck in there, that's not breaking down properly, that the nutrients are getting absorbed properly. All that kind of stuff can happen. So I've gotten to a lot more like I still do a little bit of capsules, but I've gone to a lot more liquid everything now, even, you know, liquid probiotics and liquid, you know, minerals and liquid vitamins and all that stuff. What when you're talking about a multivitamin, are you talking about a capsule?

You're talking about a chewable or you're talking about, getting it from, direct food source. So, again, it's very hard to achieve a therapeutic dose without taking a supplement. You know, you can get a nutritional dose of some things by eating a diet. But, you know, our food supply isn't as nutrient dense as we wish it was either. And most people aren't like you and I, and they're not married to taking all kinds of healthy things every day. So, you know, somebody who's new to it, we have to. I'm a pragmatist.

I just figure I have so many what they'll do, and I start there because I want them to be able to be successful at doing so. I actually prescribe a lot of capsules, and I do not think that capsules are a big problem. Americans don't eat enough fiber to begin with, and those the supplements I use are all plant gelatin capsules,

Diet, Fasting, and Microbiome Strategies 26:18

and so there's nothing wrong with that at all. There's nothing wrong with it. And unless you have, inflammatory bowel disease, it shouldn't be a problem at all. And so they just break down like any plant fiber. And, you know, Gerald Mullin is an expert in fiber and probiotics in the microbiome. And, I think he is at Johns Hopkins and he, showed a slide in a lecture of how much fiber a maasai in, in a traditional village in Africa eat versus what a modern person eats. We eat about 25% of the fiber we really should get in a day.

So it's not a problem and not a problem. And so, I think it's important, though when you choose supplements, you want to be very particular about brands. So when I make a plan for patients, I put the brands on it because it matters, because, we want brands where we're confident in the dose. What's on the label is actually in that capsule. We want to know that there's no contaminants in in the product. And we want to know that the manufacturing and storage practices at the company preserve all the nutrients.

And so only certain companies do that, not all companies. So part of the bonus that I'm going to give, everybody goes, well, what should I take. So I have I have nutritional supplement recommendations for every stage of the cancer journey that we just described. And so in the handout that you're you we're going to give as a gift are examples of how I put groups and supplements together for each one of those. And you'll have the links how to get them. And so that should answer those very specific questions that people have.

What brand with supplement how much. So that's coming in a downloadable gift. So the multi is important because we also want methylated forms of B vitamins. So those are the metabolically active forms. We want the most active forms of all the minerals and vitamins. So brand matters really matters. Then I put in a good probiotic because most cancer patients don't have a healthy microbiome. And the treatments they receive down into the microbiome. I put in vitamin D because vitamin D is so important to immunity, it does have an effect on cancer cell stickiness and anti-Asian.

And so it decreases the ability of cells to become a tumor. And I also put in omega three fatty acids very important for inflammation control. But also healthy cell walls also have an impact on cancer cell metabolism. I also put in extra magnesium because most cancer treatments deplete magnesium. And magnesium is so important to the mitochondria in our ability to have energy. Magnesium depletion creates a lot of fatigue in cancer patients. And, what did I forget? Hogan, you look at my list, vitamin C, so I was put some vitamin C in.

But we've learned that the intestine can absorb 500mg of vitamin C at a time. So taking super high doses of vitamin C actually doesn't really work physiologically the way we thought it would. So if you want to achieve a daily high intake of C, you have to space it out and 500 milligram doses. So those that's your foundation right there. Okay. And so you'll do that. You'll do the shake I described in the shake. I add the Chinese mushrooms. And I also like to add four cancer patients to the shake.

I like to add carnitine l-carnitine because it preserves muscle mass. It's it decreases the risk of losing muscle mass. And it also fuels the mitochondria as well. So fatigue is the main complaint of all cancer patients from the disease itself and from the side effects of treatments. So when you fuel your mitochondria with a lot of the nutrients in the multi, you also then that fatigue is less as well. So and and cancer treatments like recovering from surgery, metabolizing chemo agents that energy demanding it demands your mitochondria to make more energy.

And we know that cancer is actually a mitochondrial syndrome. And so we need to take care of the mitochondria as part of our plant. So, a lot of the pieces of this do that then. So we have the, the foundation nutrients, we have the shake, we have our diet, and then we have the targeted herbs and supplements. So then we want to think about how can we, influence the behavior of tumor cells. And so we think about things like, if you just want to add a few things, then I would include a high quality, fat soluble curcumin supplement and at least 2000mg a day.

Really, 2000mg a day is better. And there's only a few brands that I recommend and they have to be fat soluble. You can have a dry powder curcumin in a capsule. And so curcumin interacts. So it's from tumor. It's from the tumor. You can certainly cook with tumeric. But you're not going to get a therapeutic dose of curcumin which is the phytochemical in tumor from eating and tumeric because a spice okay. So curcumin interacts with over 50 different genes that affect tumor cells. And so do you know of a drug like that.

If that was a drug that would be a blockbuster drug. So, I like to include human I also like to include EGCg, which is, a catechin, a by a flavonoid from green tea. Now, when we think about these special plant chemicals like EGCg and curcumin, we're really talking about multi-taskers plant medicine and and plant chemicals and foods bind to multiple receptors on your cells, interact with many genes. So that's why plants are so powerful. Because we're designed we're part of nature. We use tools from nature.

Supplements, Targeted Nutrients, and Resources 32:28

Then we get this amplified approach that doesn't require you to take 30 different things in a day. So, I also like to add resveratrol. Resveratrol is a, plant chemical that is most conscious, concentrated in the skin of purple and red grapes, a little bit in cranberries, things that have that red color. And resveratrol also interacts with over 50 different genes that influence tumor cells. But all of these things have anti-inflammatory effects. The the EGCg lowers your blood sugar, like all these things we want to accomplish are are amplified by just these few phytochemicals.

So there's just four things that I listed curcumin, resveratrol, EGCg. And then we talked about the Chinese medicinal mushrooms. So if you do the foundation nutrients these few phytochemicals and additional mushrooms and stay on top of your nutritional status, keep your blood sugar and your insulin low, then you will be fueling your cells with what they need to have robust immunity, low inflammation, and, health for the the healthy cells. But stress for the tumor cells like. And that sounds like the perfect blueprint for not only, cancer free life, but, long and healthy, enjoyable life as well.

Yeah, that's a health plan, right? But the thing, whether you have cardiovascular disease or autoimmune disease, you're things that cause health are a common ground. And then we pick these targeted things. Those targeted things are really important for the cancer bio system. Right. Beautiful. Yeah. Well you definitely shared more than ten. So thank you. And I know you have resources you want to share with everyone. So so yeah share that. So so that so that listeners can actually implement and get some of the details.

Building number one you can go to the integrative cancer answers.com site. And there is all kinds of free information, downloadable information and knowledge about 300 recipes on that site and healthy recipes also. And then the download we have for you is at Integrative Cancer answers.com/global where the name of your series and there is outsmart cancer diet shopping list there that you can take to the store with you. And then there's also the list of the supplements that I use for each phase of the cancer journey, and where to get them and how much to take.

And so people could just get started. And these are safe protocols that you can do on your own. And then, you know, if you really want to have a more individualized approach, then you consult with, a health care provider who can and do that for you. Beautiful. Well, I just want to say thank you so much. Thank you for the great work, that you've been doing for many years, helping so many thousands of patients and also, you know, creating such a collaborative approach towards working with professionals in the health care field from different, disciplines.

I think that's one of the biggest things we need moving forward to actually really help people is let's take the best of all the different modalities, work together to create the best solutions for people who are dealing with chronic diseases like cancer. You've been a wonderful pioneer in that. And, you know, just appreciate all the work you do and appreciate your time here, sharing all of this with our listeners. Thank you so much for having me. Nathan. It is a pleasure to see you again. Yeah. My my honor, my pleasure.

And I want to thank everyone for tuning in to the Conquering Cancer Summit. Please share this with friends and family. Together, we truly can make a difference for the future of humanity in ending the cancer pandemic. Thank you and I wish you ultimate health and happiness. Be well.