Could Mold Be the Reason Your Autoimmune Disease Keeps Progressing?

Introduction and Mold Sensitivity 0:00

Welcome to another interview for the MS and Autoimmune Summit. I'm Doctor Terry Wahls, your host, and we have a wonderful interview with John Bohde, who's the founder of Mold Pros. Now he's a nationwide leader in mold inspection, testing, remediation with over 15 years experience. Yeah, I wanna make a comment here. I discovered that I have mold spores in my urine and had to go through this process to figure out where is the mold, where it's coming from, what to do about it. And so mold doesn't affect everyone.

But if you can't excrete it properly because of your unique genetics, you're more vulnerable. And apparently I'm one of the folks that is more vulnerable. And that is true for many of us with a systemic autoimmune disease. So I'm super excited to have John here with us today. And, right now, John, is there anything else that I missed in that intro that you'd like to add? No, I think he did a great job and, certainly appreciate the opportunity to visit with you. Yes. And, you know, so let's talk just for a moment.

For the listeners, depending your genetics, you can either readily process, excrete and eliminate these mold spores or you can't. And if you can't, then you're at greater risk to have activation of your innate immune system and more likely to have systemic autoimmune disease. I when I had a flare leading to a higher and a that led to a discovery of mold spores in my urine, which we then we had to investigate more thoroughly. So let's get to the first question. Why does the mold assessment and mold restoration industry fail?

Those with environmental illness and by environmental illness? I'm talking about the issues that I had worsening autoimmune problem and mold spores detected in my urine job. Yeah. So the restoration industry is primarily focused on getting a home back. Yeah. Rebuilt to kind of pre lost condition. So the focus is more so on the structure itself. There's very little focus on the actual health of the occupants per se.

Why Traditional Mold Inspections Fall Short 2:09

And so standardized testing is somewhat basic and it doesn't really address it. As you pointed out you had issues with some contaminants in your in your urine, a company that specializes in environmental illness. It has the knowledge and the knowhow and the testing protocols. It takes a little bit different approach, a deeper dive to not just the structure, but also focusing on collaborating that environmental data with the health data of the occupants. So I can walk us through how mold pros would address, you know, we'll take my circumstance.

So you have a patient who has a flare of their autoimmune disease, their functional medicine. Doc said, you know where to look for mold and it shows up in the urine. What's the next step for the patient in the, their health care provider? You bet over it. Very similar with the pathway I think you would probably take with one of your patients is you. You went test you get you collect data. And so it always begins with a good, in our opinion, a very good data driven approach. And by that what I mean is a thorough assessment, as you would the person of the body, good inspectors going to do the exact same thing for the structure.

So it starts out with, an exterior inspection of the home, an interior assessment. And what you're looking for or moisture issues which may contribute to mold growth. And then you develop a sampling protocol for the home itself. And that sampling protocol should be comprehensive and embrace different types of, of mold samples, whether it be air samples or surface samples or inter cavity samples. If we suspect there's mold growth behind a wall, those samples should be taken. Also, we use polymerase chain reaction or PCR sampling to get down to the species level.

We understand there's certain molds that are capable of producing mycotoxins. And for example Aspergillus has over 500 different species of Aspergillus. I think the last data that I saw was about 40 of those are capable of producing toxins from the oxygen species. So we actually go in and test not just for molds on a genus level, but also on a species level to determine that we have toxic genic, or pathogenic species. And then are they actually producing toxins? So, an increase in aflatoxins or okra toxins.

And if so, what level. So we do that and sometimes it's not mold. We also go in and do bacterial or other bio toxin like endotoxin testing. A lot of our clients are chemically sensitive. And so we'll come in and test a home for for formaldehyde or benzene or tell you, you know, over 550 different chemicals. So really getting a good understanding of what's going on in the home from a contaminant exposure, time sensitive exposure is extremely important. And like as I've said, it has to be comprehensive.

So, again, thinking about, the people who are listening have an autoimmune illness. Things are worsening. Check in with your functional medicine, doc, asking for an assessment. A small part of the problem, we you screen on the person that comes up positive, and then the practice, you say, okay, we need to assess your home environment and potentially also the work environment to figure out, okay, where are you being exposed? They would contact your company. You would send a representative out presumably that you but somebody from your company that would come to the home to do these samplings.

Then we get a report that's very comprehensive and sort out, chemical exposures, mold exposures. How does that differ from what other companies in the mold space are doing? Yeah, it differs greatly, in that, most mold inspectors, we actually doctor walls call them home jockeys.

Comprehensive Home Assessment Methods 5:55

They come in, they'll grab an air sample, and then they leave. They're there for 30 or 40 minutes. And, that's just not the level that it needs to be. Especially someone that has environmental illness. And so air sampling can be a part of that. But it should never be the only view that someone has to the home. So we come in and like I said, we do a very comprehensive report. And then if say, for example, practice to have refer someone over to us that we get the homeowner's authorization or the patient's authorization to provide the environmental data back to, not only them, but also their practitioner.

We really believe it's that collaborative approach between the environmental IEP and environmental professional, the clinician or practitioner and the patient, if we have that collaborative approach, that is really what provides, you know, the best outcome for the patient, the best results and and so if we have someone who's coming in a company to assist doing air samples. So I often see that sometimes there's dust sampling to throughout the home as a screen like okay, mold or not, the dust sample says yep, there's a problem.

Then the next level is so, a more thorough evaluation. And what you're telling me is that some companies just do your sampling. Perhaps room by room point of view is that's inadequate, that you would do air sampling. And what else do you do beyond the air sampling? So we'll do air sampling, surface sampling. Say for example. So not all molds aerosolized like stacking but for short term is oftentimes referred to as a slime mold. It's spread by water insects and rodents. And so we could turn around and have stack in a structure.

And if we only did air sampling, we would not have line of sight to what that exposure would be. So that's well, that's one great example. The other thing too is if we had mold behind a wall and we say there's been water damage, if we don't do inter cavity sampling, you'll never have any idea of what's going on inside of that wall and think that you're okay and get a false negative. So to speak, and make that assumption. Then you're going down your your path to wellness with bad data. And so it's multiple.

And then the PCR the polymerase chain reaction is important because that helps us to understand. Do we have toxic juniper pathogenic species towards you know, all as we know all molds. If you have a histamine response, can create all those allergy asthma sorts of issues that we really want to dig into chronic illness, it's important to understand environmental toxicity. And it's and and support and understand we have pathogens for pathogen. It's fungal species. That's what that comprehensive multilayered approach to inspections provides.

Now what's the cost of not having a comprehensive home inspection board. That's a great question. So but I guess the cost would be, the money spent additionally trying to find answers, you know, that you could have had further upstream, I guess there would be a cost to, not being on the road to recovery. Right? If you're if the cost of being re-exposed. So the cost of treatment, the cost of supplements. I don't know how to quantify that dollar amount, but it's going to be substantial, I would imagine.

And the cost, continuing to decline. Yeah. That your autoimmunity continues. And perhaps if we don't get to the I talked about this, we don't get to the root cause you end up with a another autoimmune diagnosis about every five years. If we aren't getting to the dysbiosis, the chemical exposures, in this case, the ongoing mold exposures. Now, from your point of view, why is a data driven approach key for people who who have autoimmunity? If taking the step, they realize they have mold in their urine.

Why is your data driven approach so important? Another great question. It's a long journey. Whenever you're going, someone that's trying to recover from environmental illness and to get to the root cause, I mean, just as you would with looking at laboratory data from a clinical standpoint, you have to, in our opinion, take the same approach with the environment. It's very easy to become frustrated or scared of fighting, etc. and those emotions can be quite a lot to deal with. But once you have data and I give you a great example.

So if we have, we can when we test a structure and we have, say glial toxins or oak or toxins in someone's urine, you test the structure and turn it. And it turns out that we don't have those toxic juniper pathogenic species which can, create those or we don't have those multiple toxins in the structure. Then diet could be the culprit. And you look to make dietary changes. So I think having that good data driven approach just expedites the road to recovery. And again, saves costs, as we mentioned, just a moment ago, you know, sort of think of the sequence.

So, you know, someone has their autoimmune disease, they as part of the evaluation check for mold in the urine. It's present. Then we begin investigating work environment. Home environment. And if so, if they were consulting with your company, you would come in, do these samplings of air inspecting the home? Are you imaging the walls in some capacity to figure out is there bad stuff behind the wall? We do. So a good inspector is going to use a multitude of tools that a typical homeowner just won't have at their disposal.

Interpreting Results and Remediation Planning 11:29

For example, we use infrared thermography to help, identify thermal differences or thermal anomalies inside of a wall, which could mean that there's moisture inside the wall. Since water heats and cools at a different rate, we have more scopes of moisture meters. And so we invest pretty heavily in technology to help us pinpoint where those issues are. We always say good inspection tells us the what, the where, the why. And then a protocol should be written that tells us the how on how to get that issue resolved.

And so that's that what is going to be driven by a lot of laboratory data that that comes back to help that data driven decision. The where is the visual inspection. And that's where a lot of inspectors, Doctor Wells, miss it because they come in. They don't really dig, for example, pulling out everything underneath the seats and looking, if there's water issues or microbial issues underneath, saints get into attics or crawl spaces. Some of that dirty work that has to be done in Delaware. It can be done by boots on the ground.

So that where is that is determined by that good inspection. And then the Y is also help to remember that inspection. Do we have elevated humidity. Has it been bad. Because sometimes it's just we don't have a water damage issue. We just have elevated moisture through humidity. And so we can determine that by using high grade emitters and other equipment that we have. So that's what a really good inspection should tell are those four key points. So this sounds incredibly comprehensive. How long does it take to come through and inspect.

You know my living environment to for you guys to complete your assessment. Yeah it's going to be about obviously the size of the home, but it's going to take generally 2 to 4 hours to do a good inspection. Larger homes can take longer than that. And how long does it take to get the report back? Part of the data gets it comes back fairly quickly within a matter of days. And then we'll talk some. Is more comprehensive testing like these chemical testing that we do or some of the polymerase chain reaction or DNA testing that we do in micro talks.

The testing can take about ten business days. So generally once we do the inspection within about a two week time frame, we'll have that complete and final report sent out. Okay. So that that comes to the patient and comes to the practitioner. And then I'm looking at the report like, okay, so you're in my case, the problem was pinpointed to an area where I had an endless pool because I was not swimming. Is that as critical now that I'm able to jog? I made the decision to take the pool out to begin to address that.

So I'm thinking that your plan would be able to pinpoint for the homeowner where the problem is. And you probably how precise are you? And this is the part of the home that needs remediation where we have to take things out. Then what's the next step? Yeah. So once once we get all the data back, and then we develop the protocol to remediate the home. That's the how. And sometimes it's going to involve removing building materials that cannot be effectively treated. So there could be some demolition that's involved with that.

And there's a there's a process to do that in the correct manner. Other times it's a ultrafine particulate treatment. If we have these zero filling molds and say for example, it's just a humidity issue, it could be just a matter of saying, okay. And this is where this data driven approach is really helpful too, because you break the home down into zones. And so it could be that we have work to do in the finished portion of the basement and not the main level or in the second story of the home. So having that good data tells you where you need to address, you know, what issues where, and then you build a custom approach to solve the problem for that individual home.

And is there, I'm wondering, is there a follow up test to be sure that, the actions that were recommended that have been completed have now resolve the issue? Yes. Yeah. And that's really important. Yeah. Well, pretty good at what we do. But sometimes if there's still perhaps an ongoing moisture issue or a stubborn colony, you do want to validate that you're back to a normal final ecology. And if you're not, then it should be retreated again. So that pretty routine that, if people if we confirm that there's a problem in the home structure, there's a recommended plan of action, whatever that would, that is.

So that plan of action has been completed. Do you routinely come back and do a repeat assessment to verify? Yes, we recommend that. It's obviously the clients or patients, decision to make. Not everybody decides to have a post-test, which is a head scratcher for me. But yeah, we strongly recommend it. And then a post-test gets, gets performed. So is the post-test typically a 2 to 4 hour thing? Again, I suppose that's a little more individualized. It can be so if, you're going to retest the affected area.

So for example, initially if we were to come back and inspect your home and say the home is 4000ft² and is determined that, the issue really is isolated to, say, a guest bathroom, on the second floor, you treat that one area and then you want to validate in that area that that area has been resolved. So it would be somewhat abbreviated. You wouldn't have to, check everything again because you've narrowed down your scope to the area of concern based on the scientific data. Now, do you think there's a think about some of the other

Follow-Up Testing and What Makes Mold Pros Different 17:08

mold, companies that people have to review and consider what's unique about mold pros compared to some of the other nationwide mold inspecting companies. Yeah. Great question. So, what makes us unique? There's several things. One is our approach around the I like to say that we're the environment and environmental illness as as the practitioner treats the illness side, we take the same approach on the structure side or the building side of things. The EPA says that even dead mold has health concerns.

And so what a lot of folks don't realize is that they will have somebody come in and they'll use, a biocide or toxins to kill fungal or microbial growth. And sometimes the cure is worse than the disease, especially if they're chemical sensitive. And so, and the EPA says that dead mold has health insurance. So we come in and we use a banded enzyme in botanical process for addressing not only mold concerns, but also our product that we use is independent, laboratory tested. It's, proven to biodegrade or by transform mycotoxins, which is extremely important.

I'm not aware of any other remediation firm that has that capability. Okay. Now I'm curious, how long have you guys been doing this again? I was 17 years going on, two decades specializing in this, environmental illness and helping folks with that. Now, I also know that many people who get into functional medicine, we get into it because we develop our own chronic illness that we've figured out how to resolve using functional medicine, which makes me a little curious. Did you have a environmental health issue that got you aware and into this journey?

I actually did not, we, started out if you look me up on LinkedIn, you'll you'll find that, I was in actually, financial services and mortgage lending when the bubble burst, 2007, 2009. We started, investing in, homes that were foreclosed, which were moldy. We did. Well, researchers, my wife and I, we spent a lot of time researching anything before we make a decision. We found a smaller company that used enzymes and botanical, enzymes and botanicals years and years ago. And so we partnered with them, and then we ultimately kind of outgrew them.

And what led us down the environmental on this side was work. We we did log years and years and years ago with, Doctor Joseph Brewer, who's based in Kansas City and, Doctor Brewer, we did work for one of his patients unknowingly. And we're the first after the third or fourth irrigation crew to come in. We were the first one to actually pass clearance for him. And so he called me in, and, I want to talk about our process and why our enzymes worked. And the rest is kind of is history kind of, sent us down that pathway.

And it's been very, very rewarding work on this one. You know, this is a wonderful story that you discovered a helpful way for us to remediate our home. Stay in our homes, the places that we, you know, have history, where our family is. And so I think this is, a really important service. Now, again, for the listeners, I want to reiterate, mold is not everyone's story, just as gluten is not everyone's story. But it's worth considering, particularly if your health has continued to decline despite doing all a great diet, good exercise program, some targeted supplements.

Talk to your functional medicine, integrative medicine provider. Could mold be part of this? If mold is in your urine, then finding a helpful company to investigate your home environment, I think is really vital to having a resolution to your mold exposure.

Company Background and Free Consultation 21:08

Now, is there anything else that we have not yet covered, John, that you think is an important part of the story to share with our listeners? I think we've covered a lot of bases. One of the things that we do for, all of our practitioners, patients is we will provide a free 30 minute consult. So if you have someone that has some concerns or they've done some DYI testing, and they like someone to review the data or painting, they leave the home and they feel great to get back to the home. And obviously they don't feel so good. Give us a call.

They can talk to one of our experienced professionals, and we can review labs and provide a free console. We're happy to do that. That is excellent. Well, then I think the next really important questions are like, how do they find you and how would they arrange for this consultation? Yeah, yeah, we're easy to find. They can go to our website demo pros.com. There is a contact us form that's there and provide some basic information via email info at the mole Procom as well. And it's tag MLB pro s.com so they can contact us that way or they can call us at (855) 595-6653.

We're always happy to help. This has been really quite wonderful. Thank you so much. And remember mold can be part of why your autoimmune disease is not settling down. And part of why things are slowly declining again. John, thank you so much. One more time. Your website, www.the hub, the mold pros tag molby p r os.com. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you.