CPAP Alternative? Can a Mouthpiece Treat Sleep Apnea? The Truth About Oral Appliance Therapy

Show Introduction and Guest Preview 0:00

All right, it is time for another show. So you know what that means. It's time For Precals. Talking about Precal, what's going on today, Emerson? Jerry, we have Dr. Suzanne Tai. She is a dentist from the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Hey! She's a diplomat. I know her. You do know, she's spoken for you at the Texas Sleep Professionals meeting. Exactly, exactly. A rock star. But, you know, she, along with being the rock star in the dental sleep, is a diplomat of the American Board of Dental Sleep Medicine, of The American Sleep and Breathing Academy, and the International Academy of Sleep.

She is also a TEDx speaker, author of Snoring, The Clue That Could Save Your Life, Dr. Tai works closely with sleep physicians, sleep technologists, and health care providers to help patients with Sleep Disorder breathing access effective treatment options and long-term care. Her mission is simple. Help more people breathe better, Sleep better and live longer. So we are really, really lucky to have her on today. I met Dr. Tai a few years ago when I was with Somnomed and just fantastic. Her practice is truly one of collaboration with physicians.

Matter of fact, one our alumnus, Dr Vic Jane, and she have done some work together. In fact they graced a magazine cover together once just really highlighting that that dental medicine collaboration. So it's something she's passionate about. And I think what we'll hear today is some of that passion from her, because we both heard her speak, Jerry, and you can't help but hear it. Her life story is fantastic, the story with her son and her husband. There's so much about her life that's just really about winning and overcoming and just performing at your best.

I'm absolutely thrilled to have her on today. No, Emerson, I think that the other thing that she's also like the highlight of a lot of my TikTok reels that come across. So for someone who can speak to other dental sleep specialists, sleep physicians, and speak their language and educate those guys, but then also make themselves open to social media posting, she is definitely a star on the rise. I just see her everywhere it seems like as it relates to sleep apnea treatment. So super excited to have her on the show today.

I can tell you one thing for sure, she is going to come with a lot of energy. As Emerson said, that she spoke at our Texas Society of Sleep Professionals Conference, and she was the first speaker of the day, of first day of conference. And I could tell this, most of techs, they're typically sleepy.

Dr. Suzanne Taiu2019s Journey into Sleep Dentistry 3:00

She did not let a single person not off because she brought in that much energy. It was like the perfect person to get the conference started. So we can expect that from her today for sure. Well, let's hear it. Let's get to it! All right, on to the show. Sleep Tech Talk is brought to you by Fisher & Paykel. Fisher and Paykkel Healthcare is a leader in CPAP mass design and innovation for over 20 years. Their unique technologies have benefited millions of OSA patients through their top CPAP masks.

These advancements continue to further enhance patient experience and outcomes. Solish is redefining how sleep apnea risk is identified. Using a simple selfie-style face scan, our AI delivers a sleep risk score in under a minute. The Solush platform then connects providers to evaluation, testing, and therapy through one seamless pathway. Because every patient deserves expert guidance wherever they are. Choose Solesh. One selfie. Better sleep. Treating my sleep apnea has renewed my appetite for life.

What matters to me now is giving my family a little treat. Sleep Tech Talk is sponsored by React Health. Within our Luna PAP device line, each offering is FDA approved, encompassing CPAP, APAP by-level and by level ST models. Our thoughtfully selected array of PEP interfaces and accessories complement our LUNA PAPP device-line while accommodating diverse patient requirements. Lights out! Welcome everyone once again to another episode of Sleep Tech Talk, the Sleep Podcast with your hosts and friends, Emerson Kerr, Robert Miller, and me, Dr.

Gerald George Moneycroft. Folks, it's been an absolutely fantastic several episodes and we can't thank you enough for all the engagement that you've been giving us and all of the reasons to Reach out to you and create more and more shows in fact over forty nine thousand reasons but you know those forty-nine thousand reason are you subscribers and what we have seen is the number of people that view the show versus number people have subscribed is there's a huge gap there so. Let's see more subscriptions and we thank you so much for that.

We also thank them for all the love, the likes, and the shares and all of the comments. Thank you, so, much. And a huge, huge shout out to our sponsors, without whom we can't do this. Please be sure to check them out. They're going to have their information in the show notes, of course. Be sure and listen to them throughout the shows. With that being said, let's get to out very special guest. Emerson, what's going on today? Jerry, we are so lucky. We have Dr. Suzanne Tai with us. Dr Tai is a sleep dentist in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

we met a few years ago when I was with Somnomed and got to experience dental sleep firsthand for a couple of years and just learned what great sleep dentistry is about from her and her peers. We are really fortunate to have you here with us today, Dr. Ty. Thank you for taking time. We know that you are super busy. You got your hands in a lot of different pots doing a lotta things, and we are very grateful that your taking the time, so one of the questions that we love to ask is, you know, why sleep?

What drew you into it? Because clearly, You've had a great dental practice, but expanding it to sleep. What made you make that leap over? And I'd love to hear that journey. Wonderful. First of all, thank you so much, Emerson, Robert, Dr. Jerry. I'm so appreciative. This is an amazing podcast. So I am so excited to be on. But yes, let me answer your question. Yes, I was a sleep dentist, but I did general dentistry for many years, 20 something years. and I own a dental practice and great dentistry was fantastic we were working through it however one day my dental assistant came in and she's the type of dental system that's just one of those employees that come in does her job does our job so well doesn't there's no drama ever you know it's not she doesn' she is not emotional she does not cry But she came in and she cried to me and I said, what is going on?

Are you okay? And she said Dr. Time, my dad just had a heart attack. I'm so sorry. And later she says they found out that it was due to obstructive sleep apnea. And honestly, at the time, as a dentist, see, in school, they don't teach you about sleep apnea. At least not when I was in the school. And so I didn't even know what it was. She likes to research the way I like to. A week later, she said, Dr. Tai, did you know that dentists can help treat this? And I had no idea, but the other crazy thing was her dad.

You know, as we all know we're on the sleep world. We know that people think that you have to be an obese man or bigger person. Her dad was healthy. He ate right, he lived his life well, He was, you know normal BMI. They had a heart attack. And so after she said that dentists can treat, we went through this rabbit hole, started to go everywhere to learn, learn more. Every time we learned we got more and more excited. So then at that point we started treating patients with dental sleep medicine. And what I noticed at first, it was going well, but not well enough, because I'm the type that loves to get to know the patient.

I want to hear about them. And I wanna help inform them and treat them, not just as a number, But as true patient, like how can I help you? But when you're in dentistry, if you don't know, If you've gone to your dentist, It's like you got one room, then you go another room. Then you get another and you gotta go, go go. There's no real time to actually sit down and learn about the patients, see the best way to help them inform then. So in the end, I transitioned. I do own a dental practice, but now I own two sleep only practices.

And it's been just an amazing experience ever since I just love helping all these patients and talking to them and finding what treatment is best for them. To me, it is not about come in and let's get an oral appliance. It's about coming. Let's talk about the different treatment options. Lets see what's the best treatment option for you. That's kind of how it all began. That is so amazing. So as you were looking at this and you are learning about dental sleep, something I think that would be really useful for our listeners is what you learned about how mandibular movement and adjustment, all of that, works.

Because obviously you had to learn that yourself and go through the training process and become boarded. But what happens there? What did you learn and then maybe what did begin to see that really sold you on dental Oh, yes. So an medieval advancement device. What that means, you have a device, it covers the top jaw, bottom jaw. It is custom fit to every nook and cranny of your teeth. We scan, we get a really good fit. But what it does, It literally positions that lower jaw forward. doesn't always have to.

This is what people don't realize. You don t always to protrude the job forward. Sometimes all you need is just to hold that position to prevent it from dropping back. That's what it does. The great thing about oil devices, though, is because it is easy. They show an extremely high compliance rate.

How Oral Appliances Work and Patient Outcomes 11:00

you know anywhere from like 77 to 90 percent compliance that's what it shows because why i mean it's small it fits in your hands you have a top jaw bottom jaw if there's no to clean it literally toothbrush and hand soap brush it rinse it store it dry travel it's just a case and you go there's no distilled water no electricity needed no hoses no mask although I do want to talk about that I love CPAPs I think CPaps are amazing but if patients can't use it then what's another option so it just easy because when they wear it the appliance they don't have to worry about pressures they can toss and turn whatever direction it is quiet and it it fantastic and You know, one of the things I want to get across is that for our patients, we really look to see what can you use.

Sometimes you can use dual therapy too. You can do CPAP and oral appliance. Let's say the CPAT pressures are too strong. Well then let oral plants do majority of work and then the C-PAP can finish it off. Like I do whatever's best for patients. So in the research it shows mild to moderate sleep apnea, oral appliances can be extremely successful. Severe, CPAP is best. It is king, it always has been king. And I think it's fantastic. But the patient, I like to find out why the patients can't wear CPap.

I had a patient the other day, she, and I talked to you about this, Emerson, but I don't know if it was too much to talk about, literally I just want what's best, And she said she went into a lab, She had severe sleep apnea, however she's been raped multiple times in her life. And she's had her people cover her face and she couldn't explain to the sleep tech at the time or the Sleep Person that that's what happened in her life. She just kept saying I can't do it. I Can't Do It. But the see, you know, physician or whoever it was kept say, no, You have to have it understanding that, that sleep position wants the best for her.

she has got severe sleep apnea, wants CPAP, but she herself can do It so she came in yesterday and She was crying. She says, I just can't. I said, i get you. i understand. And you know, even looking at it freaked her out. So I say, let's look at all options. Let's just look and inspire. let us look a genio. Lets look an oral appliance. Look at everything. Because we need to find out what you can do. You do have severe sleep apnea. But if I have a patient who says they can use CPAP because the pressure is too strong.

Well, then let s look. and they're severe. lets look oral appliances. Just do whatever you can for the patient. That's my whole goal all the time. And I'm sorry, I know you asked like, what does it help? Okay, you see life changes in marriages. Of course, and you know, i see people who are on the way to divorce and then no more divorce. Now they're sleeping in the same bed. You see, people have energy. I had the sweetest person yesterday. She said, And this is weird even say but she says doctor tie I say a prayer for you every morning and I said thank you so much for meeting you because every warning I can wear my device and have my energy skyrocketing and being productive at work I'm so happy and she doesn't have teeth.

And that's a thing. That's another thing I want people to know. You don't have to have teeth have an oral device. We can make like I can custom make an old device for people who don' have Teeth. And it's just really an Oral exam. I look and I see if you have mobile teeth somewhere I Can design the appliance to make it fit to where we're not too tight on mobile Teet. It's very custom, but I just want what's best for a patient anything that can help them. Dr. Tai, great examples and stories. And you are making a difference.

We appreciate that very much on this program, but you're able to articulate the stories in a way that is very appealing to the masses. I think that's why you've become so popular in the world of... You've almost become the face of dental sleep medicine right now. Like, I know that you did a TED Talk, right? I did, I didn't. Oh, that was a dream of mine for years. You know, we have these dreams when we're children, right? I used to watch Ted talks, my dad, My parents are refugee parents. And when they came here, they had nothing.

and literally, I'm so proud of them because they made such they became successful because They, They literally listened to podcasts and motivational speaking and they literally I don't know if it's Asian family when I was sleeping. They'd have motivational Speaking subliminal messages going up as I'll sleeping so I used to watch Ted Talks all the time. It would motivate me. I'd learn. And I thought one day, you know, I love because I loved to educate and I'll have to help. One day I will be on there.

Then I had a friend and he said, why don't you apply? And I thought, me? Okay, why not? You know, Why not. So I did, I applied and it was crazy. That first letter that said you made it past the first level. I was ecstatic. It was so excited. But there's a lot that goes into it. You I mean, you write that application as long and then you have interviews and you to send in video after video, all the things. But to finally get it was like one of the best experiences. I went there and, what was most important was that after it, people kept saying, oh my gosh, I can relate.

You know, i've had that same thing. And my talk was literally about my transition from dentistry to sleep, but then also discussing sleep and all. The hurdles I. Went through and. All the pain and how to get to where I am today, really, but letting people know you can do the same thing. It's literally mindset, make it happen. But the great thing is, I got a lot of patients who are saying, or people in the audience saying I didn't know oral plants existed. I don't about snoring and how it affected sleep.

So it was great to kind of bring light to the sleep world and help people, and also help them know that you could rebuild your life at any time you want. That was an amazing experience. Treating my sleep apnea has renewed my appetite for life. What matters to me now is giving my family a little treat. Sleep Tech Talk is sponsored by React Health. Within our Luna PAP device line, each offering is FDA approved, encompassing CPAP, APAP by-level and by level ST models. Our thoughtfully selected array of PEP interfaces and accessories complement our LUNA PAPP device-line while accommodating diverse patient requirements.

A sound sleep calls for a high-performing mask. Introducing F&P Nova Nasal with SwingFit Headgear. And from fitting and seal to minimal noise and draft, is performance defined? Go to fphcare.com forward slash nova nasal to learn more. Solish is redefining how sleep apnea risk is identified. Using a simple selfie-style face scan, our AI delivers a sleep risk score in under a minute. The Solush platform then connects providers to evaluation, testing, and therapy through one seamless pathway. Because every patient deserves expert guidance wherever they are.

Choose Solesh, one selfie, better sleep. Well, I have to tell you, Emerson, Jerry and I, have all, you know, done our fair share of public presentations, but I would be scared to death to do a TED Talk. I'd have admit. Oh! I know a thousand million percent you could do it. Well I think I'll probably start with my most recent sort of personal journey. As a long time CPAP user, overweight, went on a GLP-1 for the last couple of years, lost a lot of weight, and now I'm on an oral appliance. Fantastic.

Absolutely. Yeah. Hey, Doc, question for you is, you know, this is really exciting to hear that to get the word out there, but I have noticed there has been an explosion in dental sleep medicine. And now you have, I started thinking about braces or orthodontics back in the 90s when Every dentist wanted to do that, right? And now I'm hearing dentists that are not necessarily trained or boarded in dental sleep, they want to get into it because they think that they can do it. So could you help our audience understand why they should go through somebody like you or rather than just get somebody that says, hey, I think you have sleep apnea, why don't you get a dental device through me?

I really appreciate you saying that. I, for me, whenever I hear patients go through a dentist, their traditional dentist to get a device, you know, I'm happy for them because at least that's a step in the right direction. Let's get help with sleep apnea, right? But for, me I definitely want to learn the absolute most I could because it's not just a If they have complications, I can help them. If I need to design an oral plan in a certain way, then I help. fought against the dentist. They're trying to truly help.

I believe, this is what I want to believe and always want believe is that the dentists as health professionals, we want help our patient, right? And so they're like, oh, you snore. You want an appliance? Sure, I give it one too. But their primary focus is dentistry. This is kind of why I went out of dent history to go only sleep because I wanna know how can I really help the patient? So when you go to a sleep dentist who's trained in dental sleep medicine, they will know the type of device to choose.

They know what the right device is to use for you.They will now the positioning your appliance should be in because that's the other thing when patients are buying appliances just over the counter. I hate to say it. I know they're trying to, it can help something, right?

TEDx Talk, Advocacy, and Public Education 21:00

But it could also cause some tooth movement. It can cause them bite changes. No one's watching it. Do they know who's manning the position, the therapeutic position? You can actually go too far. I hear patients pushing their jaws far forward. You get these people buying them off of Amazon, for example, you hear it all the time, And what I see is when they buy it off of Amazon, then I get them as patients. So thank you, Amazon. But I do, but then they might have, like I said, bite changes, they could have tooth movement in certain areas, They can have jaw pain.

And, you know, But then there's other things I hear patients who say, Oh, well, You know, this appliance didn't work. Well, let's look at other options, or not just options. Let's get maybe why, you know? Because sometimes it's your nose. Can you breathe through your nos? If you can't breathe your knows, I don't care what treatment it is. It's difficult like CPAP. Also, CPAT oral plants can breathe, breathe. You knows it can be difficult, right? We all know this, but patients don' know that and dentists, traditional dentist may not know.

And so going to someone who is who has a diplomate in dental suit medicine or who are boarded and things like that, that can help because they can look at other things other than just the device. Let's look the whole picture. Because for me, you know, I had a patient and she said I'm doing so well, got so much energy and... And I feel really good. I'm not snoring. My husband's happy. But she says, you know, I still notice on my watch, my heart rate still seems to be higher. And, we are doing me as a sleep dentist, as I do sleep study titrations.

Now I always bring my patient back to the physician who sends him over to do a final efficacy study. Right? But I did my own titration to find the positioning of their blinds, the best position, right? The therapeutic position. But even so, her heart was still having some issues. I said, you need to go to your cardiologist. The body is multifactorial. i will never say sleep apnea cures everything. All your symptoms, it helps. That is not the case. We you know, the body's multifactorial. So being a sleep dentist, I work with so many different physicians, in all aspects.

It could be OBGYN, it could optometrists, psychiatrist, ENTs, whatever I can to get them the best health because that's what I want. it's not just about let's get you an oral advice and off you go. Go titrate your own. No, I'm monitoring all of it. Dr. Tai, one of the things that we talk about on here quite often are the pharmaceuticals that are coming on board with Apna Med's new drug and the GLP ones like Robert's Journey. In the sleep dental community, what are you guys talking about when it comes to pharmaceutical and oral appliances?

There seems to be some synergy there between the two and how they could maybe be a co-therapy. How do you see it? I love it. I literally, I just recommend a patient yesterday, multiple patients yesterday because we know weight can play a part. Is it the end all? No, but it absolutely can. Why? You know, when we gain weight, we gained weight in our tongue, that tongue drops back and blocks that airway. We gain wait around our neck and squeezes that Airway tighter. So sometimes we need extra help.

And I go over it with patients. I even go for diet and I tell patients shop the perimeter. Don't shop in the center aisles, because that's where all the preserved foods are. Right. But I absolutely discuss. Go see your doctor, go try to get on and possibly set down. Zip down is the new FDA drug. for the GLP-1 for sleep apnea, right? And I think it's great. I've talked to many of my physicians who are prescribing ZetBound and they love it. And again, I'm not the expert on prescription medications, correct?

So that's why I lean onto my physicians who are prescribing, or nurse practitioners or PAs, who're prescibing it to give me the information and tell me what they notice as results.

Choosing a Trained Sleep Dentist and Treatment Options 25:00

I hear ZetBound is really good because there are a lot less side effects, which I think is fantastic, but literally hand in hand, It works great because even if you lose the weight, what I want everyone to know is even If you loose the way you should still get a sleep study because I have literally women who are 90 pounds who stop breathing 40 times an hour. You still it's not just about the wait. you still need to get the sleep. Study still check make sure you're okay and don't think oh yes. Well, I feel so much better.

Well yeah, maybe you were 200, like 300 pounds and now you're down to 150. So yes, you gonna get more energy. You're gonna feel better, but is the sleep apnea gone? You don't know. Get a sleep study. That's what I'd like to say. Dr. Tai, what's next for you? You've certainly had a lot of success already, but, you know, sort of what is next in the Dr Suzanne Tai book of sleep apnea treatment, and what does that look like? I love collaboration. I, if you can't tell, I like bringing awareness. Anyone and everyone I like to help educate and inform I want to say educate, you know, the physicians are so smart They are but sometimes they don't know our world and so I'd love for them to hear this and because I really believe all these providers are here to Help patients, but it's not just that like I love to bring awareness.

So I I'm a speaker You want me to come? I would love to count because it's just like, I just want to help teach the world. And when I say world, mean world I will travel anywhere. I want help because if I know I can help with information, that's huge. That's making an impact and that what I wanna do. I'm gonna keep applying and keep doing but whatever whenever and wherever however I can help I want to so that's right now I concentrate on speaking and I am concentrating on producing content I've been doing that a lot more lately because I just want people to have information and you know we have two sleep practices right we may be opening another so there's There's a lot going on, but I'm excited.

It's all very exciting and it just makes me happy and seeing patients get better daily is extremely exciting for me. And I hope for the patients too. Exactly, exactly. Now, talking about for-the-patients, this may be a little controversial, But what do you see as the future of dental sleep medicine? This is your opinion. the future of dental. I mean, I definitely see a lot more dentists being involved. It's really neat because And y'all probably talked about this on your podcast, maybe. But you've heard of Presamness Technologies and their oral appliance, and they've got the chip.

I think that's amazing people. Oh, do you have one? Jerry, you like pointed out your mouth. Okay. but I, but i think it's Amazing, But then it not only presameness, there's other companies like Somnumen. There's Other companies are also coming out with that. Patients are so big about wearables. And I love having a wearable in your mouth. Actually, it's close to the heart. I mean, all blood vessels, everything like that. It's great. So I think that's the future.I think having patients being very involved in their sleep health and their journey.

And no, I don't think it is really good. Collaborating with your sleep dentist and the doctors and having that information right at your fingertips, is amazing.So I definitely see a lot more people in oral appliance therapy now. and people doing dual therapy and just not just one therapy. That's what I see in dental seat medicine. I think it's going to be everywhere. Very, very soon. A lot more dense. Like you said, all of a sudden this trend, All these dentists are starting to pop up and say they have, you know, they can treat dentals and treat with an oral appliance.

But I the more we can educate, the More we'll get more training for dentist so that we could help more patients. So that's I'm excited for the future. That's fantastic, Doc. And we are out of time, but this has been really, really fabulous, and your energy is just so amazing. Before we close, is there anything else you want to just touch on before we I feel like I've said the majority of everything. Yeah, just get tested. If you snore, if you have hypertension, diabetes, anxiety, depression, sexual dysfunction, nocturia, I mean, in a sleep divorce where you're sleeping in separate rooms, please get testing and find out if your sleep apnea.

And if do, get the treatment. One other thing, sometimes it's not always about the numbers. And because I had a patient text me or wrote on my M on Maya Instagram, they said they had they were feeling miserable. They're snoring. There's so tight, but they got the sleep study said that zero apneas. So you might have upper airway resistance syndrome. You might something else. They had no treatment. There's still feeling miserable. Follow the symptoms. Sometimes the treatment is all, you know, is what you need.

And you have night to night variability with sleep studies. So try it again. That's what I want to say. Just get tested and get the training you. Doc, thank you so much. that was a great way to close and we appreciate you joining us. And folks out there, thank you so much for joining us as well. It's been amazing having all of you. Thank you, so, much, for the love, the likes, and the shares, especially the subscriptions. Don't forget, a huge shout out to our sponsors. Be sure to check them out.

Until next time, we say, lights on.

Pharmaceuticals, Weight Loss, and the Future of Dental Sleep 31:00

Be sure to check out our clinical sponsor, Sleep Review Magazine. More details in show notes. All right, that was a lot of energy. And so it's time for post calves. What do you guys think? You're right. Dr. Tyra brings passion. And I think you could hear it just in the couple of stories she shared of people whose lives were changed, and including the tough story of hearing about her patient that was assaulted. It's amazing talking to her and hearing her over these years. She wants to know her patients.

she wants know everything. In this case, some really tough things, but those tough thing meant helping that patient explore what was going to work for them and such a beautiful story of really digging in and learning about them but you know she's someone that that is literally taking time to do this and will be boarding a flight later today to Vietnam so it's amazing how I even said to her I said you're going our pre-show meeting and she said, yeah, I said do you need to reschedule? I say absolutely not.

She says I get things done and I love that about her that she didn't delay spending time with us. she wanted to be heard and be seen and communicate what she's doing and it just speaks to the her character and how exciting she is and as she has always got her foot on the gas in life and such a beautiful person. We're so blessed to have her with Absolutely. Passion, passion, and passion. When you combine passion with all the other great attributes that she has, that's where the star power really comes from, I think, with her.

And I think the other thing, too, is that, you know, I can tell, sometimes, when someone is sort of a fake it till you make it kind of person, but that's not Dr. Tai. I mean, she is the genuine real deal and just, what a significant presence in the world of sleep apnea therapy. You know when you say presence, that is a huge way of describing her because Emerson had mentioned this she's almost like the face now for dental sleep medicine. You she really put herself out there and you mentioned that earlier Robert about her being.

Willing to educate and make an impact on all sorts of different clinicians as well as providers but at the same time willing to put yourself out their. In social media so it's definitely a huge presence and her videos come in my feed all the time. It's great to see that because she definitely is getting awareness out there on what are the options. And this day and age, I think that's really important for everybody, for the patients that there are options out for them, that they're not stuck to this thing that has held such a, what's the word I'm looking for, a negative connotation for a while.

Now it's getting more in mainstream, which I talk about as CPAP, And that's a positive thing. But at the same time, we do have options. And she brings that out that, hey, the option could be oral appliance. The option can be CPAP with oral appliances. Option could the GLP-1s. There are so many different things, or a combination of all of these things. We'll still work together to make things happen. You're right, Jerry. I think that the beauty of a professional like Dr. Tai is that they are really willing to have those conversations with the patient.

But then it's just fun to hear the energy. And I would imagine that's part of, if any of you start following her on social media, you'll see that. The pictures she takes with her patients there in the office, she posts those when she can.

Closing Advice and Post-Show Reflections 35:00

That just speaks to that energy and then hearing about just her life in general and what she's involved in the things she's doing to just live life to its fullest. I think she is an example of that, not just as a sleep professional, but just a human. It's just so much fun to see how she lives life, to the fullest, with her husband and her son and what they have going on. it's a beautiful story of really maximizing your existence as person and filling as much as you can. Its infectious when you get around her.

All I know is we got to step up our energy game. Yes. I was going to say, we've got a maximize our lives as well with that. Man, that's a lot of energy there. No excuses. Carl, Lindsey, Farlin, put them all in a room together. Yeah. If we're going bring a guest on with as much energy and enthusiasm as someone like Dr. Ty or Lindsey McFarlin. We got step our game up, guys. Hey, make the most of every day, right? Like Ram used to say. Yes. You're dating yourself. Hey. I look in the mirror and date myself every.

There you go. All right, I think that's a great place to stop, folks. Thank you all so much. We appreciate each and every one of you. And until next time, cheers. Hello. I'm Massey Errington, President-elect of the American Association of Sleep Technologists. I wanted to reach out and let you know that the AST is your professional home and chief advocate. As an AEST member, you'll gain up to 22 free CECs annually. You'll also have access to technology specific education, as well as the community and advocacy that you need to advance your career and improve patient outcomes.

With the AST's new strategic plan tackling sleep technology's biggest challenges head on, now is the time to advanced our profession together. Visit astweb.org and discover where you belong.