Defying the Odds: How Lucy Reclaimed Her Memory and Her Life

Introduction to Lucy Woletsky 0:00

What would you share with someone who is at the beginning stages of looking down the barrel of an Alzheimer's diagnosis? What do you want them to know? that they're very lucky that the Bredesen program is like, it's magic. We are so lucky it exists. Dr. Bledesen is a brilliant scientist and physician and a kind man, a humble man. endlessly curious and caring about his patients. So he's making advances, continues to make advances and he hopes that in the future for some people who come late into the...

If you're early, you should, your really lucky because it's likely going to be quicker that you are going get better. So it is good to get started when it easier. That's what I would say easier to reverse things. Yeah. Welcome. I'm your host, Dr. Heather Sandison, and I am delighted. Today, I have the honor of welcoming Dr Lucy Woletsky to the podcast. Dr Woletzky is a psychiatrist, philanthropist, conservationist who has dedicated her life to service, whether through her work in mental health, her leadership in preserving our natural environment, or her many contributions to education and the arts.

She is carrying forward a remarkable legacy of stewardship and care. More recently, Dr. Woletsky faced a deeply personal challenge, an Alzheimer's diagnosis. Instead of accepting the conventional narrative that little could be done, she embraced the Bredesen Protocol, a comprehensive lifestyle-based approach to reversing cognitive decline. And she has experienced profound improvement. Her story is one of hope, resilience and empowerment. It challenges what we've been told about aging and dementia, and it shines a light on the possibilities that open up when science, lifestyle and determination come together.

I'm so grateful she's here to share her journey with us today. Welcome, Lucy. Well, I mean, i'm, so happy to be here and have a chance to I'd love to hear a bit about your professional journey and the values that have guided you through this lifelong work in psychiatry, conservation, philanthropy. Before we hit record, we were talking about the app that you created, Datable, for people living with disabilities to start dating. You have just this very rich professional history that I would love to just have our viewers understand that context before we dive into that story of Alzheimer's.

Okay. Well, I always wanted to be a physician as long as I can remember and wanted do tropical medicine, but then I saw that wasn't for me. And since I enjoyed talking to people so much and learning their stories, It was a natural for me also because I was not, again, did not have learning disabilities and math and science. And I think ultimately that overcoming them to get through medical school then helped me be one of the first people to overcome my Alzheimer,

Career, Service, and Datable 3:34

reverse the cognitive decline. I'd had that lifelong determination, because medical school was very hard. And psychiatry was endlessly fascinating. I hated retiring, but one of my physician friends said, don't worry about it. Your family and friends will still come to you with problems. You won't really have left medicine, and that, in fact, is true. You come from a family with a strong legacy of service and stewardship. How has that shaped your health, your purpose, where you derive meaning, and just life in general?

In a very positive way, because they were role models, but they never put people that was there, that they took great joy from what they did, whether it was in population, overpopulation. environment, all of the areas in the arts, they were a great inspiration to me. And also their talk, because if you can get a lot, you want to get back. Do you have any favorite projects that you kind of look back on and think, wow, that was a lotta fun, or those were great people, I'm really proud of that. Well, that's the day-to-day dating service that we were chatting about before the recording.

In my practice, I had three people. One lady was blind, and she wanted to meet somebody. Another woman was elderly, was metastatic cancer. And she want to need somebody, And a man with multiple sclerosis. None of them you would metric up. Well, and oh yeah, the man with moldable sclerosis was turned down because he was aware whatever went with him. And the others had some bad experience too. So it just hit me that it was a good idea and it took off right from the beginning before I even knew the politically correct language to use for people.

with various disabilities. Here we were on the Today Show, me and the man with multiple sclerosis in the wheelchair. I was kind of inarticulate and I thought nervous and he was fantastic, which was good because it broke the stereotypes. So at that point, buildings, bathrooms, and buses had become accessible after the ADA was passed. But there were really barriers in terms of hoys and ships. We didn't have people without disabilities too. So it wasn't often. And we did have quite a few people with disabilities join.

You shared that someone in a very high leadership position was someone who had benefited from the service. Can you explain a little bit more about that? Yeah. Wonderful. A wonderful man with severe cerebral palsy. He was a scooter, a master in charming and comfortable with people. And he met his wife at Day-Dable, and they're married to this day. She worked at NIH. They've been extremely, extremely happy. And then people would come in and they'd say, well, I don't want to meet this person because of this.

And he'd be so good at explaining. Well, you haven't even met them. You don' know this other person. So give them a chance. We had parties and for me, an outing. People never ended up dating but had a bigger circle of friends. That was very, very rewarding. Yeah, to create those connections, that community. Now, you joined this Bredesen community, I know you're a good friend of Judy Benjamin's, who's doing her walk across the country and celebrating her success on the Breadesen Protocol, what, 12 years later?

I want to hear your story about that experience of receiving an Alzheimer's diagnosis. What were your initial thoughts and emotions in the context of being a physician, but also just being human with a very scary diagnosis? Yeah. Well, I had first heard in 2008. I thought I... 2018's when I started the protocol. But in 2018, had gone to Canyon Ranch and taken a... a 40-minute test on memory and they said I only had 20% of what my memory should be back then and I should seek help immediately. And I always say, it's the best thing I ever forgot.

I totally fraud. But I continue to ask people, I'd say I have a memory problem And they'd all say, you don't, or I don' know what to do about it. And one day I did say to somebody that same thing and they said, oh, I just read an article and it was Dr. Bredesen's study of the first 10 people who had reversed their cognitive decline. I read it, said that's for me, and I can do it and that is what I went and actually met him. It wasn't until I had went for the NeuroZide testing, ever taken tests before.

I tried to say no, and then I said, oh my goodness. And that's where I remember the 10 years ago.

Receiving the Alzheimer's Diagnosis 9:20

So I think it was a great memory loss for quite a long time before I began, so I'm quite lucky that the cognitive decline has increased. very long, had so many things contributing to the address. Oh, when I was diagnosed, he offered me Aricept, and I declined the Arricept. This is a syndrome, it only slows the decline, I'm on a program that reverses it, And he sort of rolled his eyes. But I wasn't scared because of the protocol. The first time I became scared of it was when I got the p-towel brain scan test and I came back with the same diagnosis.

high for the test. Then it hit me what I should have had when I was diagnosed. The first time for medicine protocol, I didn't have it. I just had a myriad of people. And now Dr. Benson has said that there's thousands and thousands of the people, so I want your viewers to know that this is very real and there is the trial, the accessible trial about to be published. When you read about the protocol, you mentioned that this would work for you. What was it that inspired you to give it a try? What made you say, this will work?

I can do this. because I knew there was nothing else. So the fact that there were only eight out of 10 that were clearly improved, I know there's nothing out. And now they, you know, they had to identify what was derideable. It makes up about protoball. They think it's, is, talk is a crucial part of it, and so are. But you have to find out struggling it because in my case, it was, High mercury and lead were the first two things that I had to detox from. And then Lyme and then sleep apnea. Then for years now, mold, endemic foreign disease.

So there's no one pill that could help a person with all those things. So that's very important to find out why. Yeah, those drivers, of course, that not everyone with an Alzheimer's diagnosis has the same things causing it. I want to get into the first few weeks or months where you really started implementing the program. Right. What did that feel like? Were there challenges or turning points or was it just all easy for you? Well, one thing I liked right from the start was Brain HQ. And when I looked, did BrainHQ, and I saw what percent I was in, it was very low, like 25% or 30%, because after many, many months I said to Dr.

Bresson, I'm so excited, up to 50%. He says, well, that's good, but keep optimizing. So now I'm up to 90% across all age groups. And I think it's important to see if you can go back to keep having to recall Dr. Branson's program. They have made it even easier to stick with the BrainHQ and So I was doing that from the beginning. I've seen people to do, you know, so many games, 20 games maybe, and all different levels, correct brain speed and memory and people skills and navigation. So it's not giving me some good feedback.

But there wasn't much feedback. I saw like my mercury was real high. So Judy, I'm really curious, as you navigated the Bredesen Protocol, which specific parts of the protocol? Was it detox, nutrition, the lifestyle pieces, supplements? What made the biggest difference for you personally? For me, it was brain HQ because the feedback was instant. when I did it. And I started very, very low in the 20s. Then after maybe six months, I got up to 50s, and then Dr. Bredesen said, he says, good work, but keep optimizing.

Eventually I go up 90% for all ages where I am now, which I'm very proud of that because I do it every single day. for about a half hour. And then I also do Elevate and the New York Times Wordle and Spelling Bee because they stimulate different parts of the brain. So when you see what percent you're at, no matter how low it is, you can actually get it higher. That's very rewarding. I felt the supplements were very helpful, too, because I saw from the blood test that these things were off vitamin D and zinc and inflammation, and the inflammation pointed to the toxicity.

So then the first of the toxic things that I was tackling was mercury, cause I had silver fillings removed as a child, many, They protected the patient and the doctor. So now if you get them removed, you won't get the same exposure, fortunately. It's not that you feel better because it's just that your doing the right thing. The number's coming down and you know mercury's toxic to the brain. And so that toxin's gone and that's good. That's the thing with lead from having a house that was had lead pipes and lead paint living there.

That was a bad idea. And so again, it comes down eventually. In Lyme disease, I was lucky. I got a second tick-borne disease or arachleosis and went to the hospital with that. Then I had IVs in the hospitals for the arichleiosis, zoos and doxycycline. Then it got rid of the Lyme as well as the Erychleosis. So that was really lucky. Yeah, and then Dr. Bredesen said, well, maybe you have sleep apnea because your hippocampus is very small. My MRI showed that my hippo campus was about 20% of what it should have been.

He said that may be because it's not getting enough oxygen at night. So he says, even though you're slim and you don't snore, you take the sleep apnea test. And I didn't have sleepapnea. I can tell on days, because you get scores from the CPAP machine. If you are having a lot of episodes of not breathing right at night, I'm worse in my thinking in the day. So I know that it helps and it makes sense that it would help and so it's a nuisance but you just have to do it and the nutrition was I took a long time to get into ketosis.

Some people get it into it very quickly and they're lucky but I didn't and I think in retrospect I was just not strict enough.

Starting the Bredesen Protocol 17:20

One thing I found out that really surprised me was the gummies. And that's another thing that I want to talk about is sleep. Sleep is so important to getting better and I monitor it by the aura ring. So I wake up a lot and then I was taking melatonin gummies, but then learned way after the fact when I found out I had 10 cavities, which I haven't had any since I was a child, that they have sugar in them. And you're all night after you brush your teeth, you have the sugar on your tooth. So oh dear, oh, dear.

That was... And it's also keeping you from getting into ketosis. Right, right, exactly, because if you're right I never thought about that. All that sugar from the gummies. So I, you know, more thoroughly got rid of the sugar and then kept up the, I do, do I walk for about two miles every day except the two days where I did strength training because given my age I'm 84, it's very important. to keep your strength out. And I like to play golf, so I have to, keep my strength up to do that. I'm the oldest one on the chorus playing golf.

Not in any form, but I play on 18-hole chorus in the club level tournaments. My biggest challenge came when I was hit by a dog. It was at a friend's house, it was a 70-pound dog running full speed. injured me and I broke my leg in four places and the ligaments were out and i was knocked unconscious and four teeth were loose loosened oh my god a long way back because it was head trauma combined with the the other things, and that's why also the Gulf took more effort to get back to. But it's worth it, because when you think what Alzheimer's is really like, this protocol works.

For some people, it is simple. If they just simply And you can correct me of much more experience, Heather, there. But if the person is simply overweight and insulin resistant, they can maybe get better much quicker than those of us who are toxic times three Alzheimer's. Is that right? You know, it's interesting, I rarely see a patient who is that simple, right, who's just overweight and has diabetes. Most, the vast majority of my patients, once they've lived past 65, they have accumulated toxicity that's significant.

And we live in a world where you cannot avoid it. So I think that toxicity is usually, now there are some exceptions, but usually I thing toxicity, is a player for Alzheimer's patients. I mean any neurodegenerative patient I would even say. I think, yeah, my experience has been that no one is simple. Everyone has this degree of complexity. Now there's varying degrees. But it's when we start to say, oh, the detox isn't that important, now we have people that aren't getting better. It's really about taking this comprehensive approach and saying, okay, for this individual, which ones are most important?

And let's start there. I don't know that many people get out of this protocol without doing some detox. That's very interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah. In our clinical trial that we did at my office, 100% of our 23 participants, all 23 of them, had significant toxicity. Really? Yeah. And did they notice when they felt better related to the toxicity or more just the accumulation of doing everything, which is what I feel over time, you know, it's the supplements, the detox, brain HQ, sleep, everything.

Or do they tend to see something That's a good question. I sort of refuse to do things one at a time anymore because by the time someone is suffering with cognitive impairment, we want to throw everything at it. We're asking for a miracle. And so I just lose so much confidence if we start to pick and choose. But I will say for the I have many younger patients that I've seen over the years. My clinical practice is now almost 100% dementia and people over 65, but previously there would be people who really just did need to detox.

They were in their 20s or 30s and had been exposed to something. and you take care of it, and yes, their brain fog goes away and their focus and cognition returns. No, they don't have Alzheimer's, right? They're not at that stage, but there are cognitive symptoms that resolve with just detox, certainly. Yeah, that's interesting. The line between Alzheimer and cognitive impairment Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there are so many things that affect people. I heard at one stage, it was like one in three Americans would check a box that say that they have suboptimal cognitive function.

So that's, you know, that a hundred million people more. That's a huge chunk of our population. I'm so curious about how you built your team, right? Was there, I know Dr. Bredesen, your communicating directly with him because you were an early and an enthusiastic adopter. And then who else was on your time to support you on this path? Well, right from the beginning, Mary Kay Ross, who was at that time, you know, working with Dr. Bredesen on the town hall and everything, I went out to see her first in Seattle, or was it first and Savannah?

Maybe first, in Savannah, then in I've seen her in New York and now she's back in Savannah and seeing people by Zoom. And when I was out in Seattle, I met there, Carrie Millis, as a health coach out there. But she wasn't back here, so I didn't have a Health Coach per se. I think that's essential, the Health coach, for people making the changes. It just happened. I didn't. But now I'm friends with Judy Benjamin. She's a health coach. I think that the whole team is so important, the nutritional coach and the health I could understand it better being a physician.

I can tell just having this conversation with you, seeing you in the documentary Memories for Life, you are just one of those people who's going to figure

Detox, Sleep, and Lifestyle Changes 25:40

it out and make it happen. I'm also curious, though, if there are tricks or tips or tools that you found that allowed you or helped you to stay consistent with the protocol. Because as you mentioned, it's a long-term commitment. It's, a lifestyle, an identity that I do this, I live this way. And so what keeps you coming back and doing it day to day, even when it gets harder, or even if it there's travel, and even there is a wedding or something pops up or you have an injury like you experienced?

What keeps you on track? I guess it's just keeping a firm picture of what I'm trying to do, which is not get Alzheimer's. My mother had Alzheimer and I see so many people who get it and then their life isn't their own anymore. They can't do what they want to with other people or anything. I just, it's just keeping that idea in my head. I'm kind of like that, set my mind to something. You see, I guess, and it was fun being one of the pioneers. And it, was very exciting when the film came out. And then an interesting issue that people have is who do you tell that you have Alzheimer's?

How do we navigate that? Yeah, it's because when the book came out, The First Survivors of Alzheimer, I only used the name Marcy because I didn't even want to disclose my first name. So only just the people around me knew. And When the movie came out, of course, I had Memories for Life, which is on Amazon Prime to this day. There I am. So, you're sort of forced to come out. And I did Q&As after the screenings of that. But then that was a challenge because then I couldn't remember who knew and who didn't know.

I make mistakes because it was the best number of people. you don't know about my memory problem, they'd say, oh, yes, I was at the screening. And I said that, that was oh dear. So that's a challenge to this day. I'm not sure because now lots of people in my community know, but I don' know who knows. and I've reached a stage where I am beyond that self-consciousness because it's just another Another problem, medical problem that people have is just that we people didn't know that, people could reverse the cognitive changes of Alzheimer's.

It was harder to come out. Yeah, there was certainly a bias against anyone who might have that diagnosis that people would treat you differently, I'm sure. Maybe stop inviting you to lunch or to play golf or it changes or take on projects that you might be totally capable of. And then now that's really shifted into almost an ambassador role, right? You're here, you've been in the movie, And you are one of these pioneers sharing your story to show what's possible. And with this, I want you to describe your day-to-day life.

Like, this is a great example of that. It's like, who knows that you have this diagnosis? And how does that impact your daily life? They delay telling their loved ones or they delay mentioning it to their doctor because they don't want their day-to-day life to be affected. They don' t want to lose their driver's license.They don t wanna lose there friend group. How has this process affected your day to day life? And if you can think back to 2018 or 2017 when maybe your memory loss was at its peak, what are the improvements in that day today experience today versus then?

Well, I guess there's less notes because at the time I had a high-level position with New York State Parks and it was responsible for parks all over the state. I have so many notes to keep track of and I would be very anxious about not knowing something about that park or historic site or those people or everything. I don't have that as much. My memory is still not what I would want it to be, my cognition. is, but my memory after a few weeks have gone by, I may forget some things about the conversation or something like that.

And I'm hoping I've still struggling with mold in my house and in me. I know you're supposed to get all five of the molds negative and then continuing detox, and I only got three negative. And I'm really hoping that when all of mine are negative and the house is negative, the houses negative now, this is years, that it's going to help my memory and I'll need less prompting, you know, keeping notes to keep straight. Look up some, I click office when I may look up, well, what did we talk about last time?

Having improved your symptoms, what would you share with someone who is at the beginning stages of looking down the barrel of an Alzheimer's diagnosis? What would want them to know? Well, that they're very lucky that the Bredesen program is like, it's magic. We are so lucky it exists. Dr. Bledesen is a brilliant scientist and physician and a kind man, a humble man. endlessly curious and caring about his patients. So he's making advances, continues to make advances and he hopes that in the future for some people who come late into the...

If you're early, you should, your really lucky because it's likely going to be quicker that you are going get better. So it is good to get started when it easier. That's what I would say easier to reverse things. Yeah. In your background, You've been a leader in environmental and conservation causes. What do you, have you ever drawn the, connected the dots between caring for the planet, caring our environment, and caring of our brain? No, I never did. How do you connect? Oh my gosh, there's so many ways.

I personally have this experience of if I'm in a big city or if i'm trapped inside for too long, my nervous system kind of gets ramped up and I don't think it's clearly and iIm not as creative. And then if go for a walk on the beach or If I go to a park or Igo for walk in the woods, My whole nervous systems, it almost visible, like calms down. I'm able to think more clearly. I think, you know, on a, I guess maybe a more political, societal level, just pesticides and herbicides and the link between glyphosate and neurodegenerative diseases,

Support Team and Staying Consistent 34:10

glyphasate found in Roundup. and the food that's available when we're disconnected from the environment. So yeah, I think that there's a lot of ways, and I suspect that your work in the Parks Department in New York and in your philanthropy has benefited the brains of others. Yeah, getting away from the EMFs, that's been one of the things. Reducing EMf exposure and leaving, if you have an Apple, you can leave the phone behind when you're out. Yeah, definitely that's one of the troubles about golf.

They have pesticides on the course and I've noticed that almost all the golfers, the applicators, and people who have pesticides in their home, they all have their memory affected. It's really one of the pest management committee for our county and it's a big job. Yeah. Trying to get less. That balance of making sure that nature is not taking over, that there aren't ants in the kitchen and there are cockroaches and the grass looks lovely as people want it to, but also at what cost? Yeah, my grass does not look lovely, but there's no pesticides there.

And yeah, that's definitely true. When I'm out walking, I don't really want to talk on my watch or talk. I didn't even want go with other people, by myself. You and me both. It's a nice time to decompress, right? Right, it is. It is, yeah. Because you have busy practice and writing and everything. You are doing a lot, I know. Remember that stage. Yeah, you've been there. I was excited to talk to you because I feel like you can relate to have you had a load on your plate. Excuse me if you don't want to about this, but I understand you lost a child, right?

Yes. I mean, you've been through one of the most stressful experiences that can happen to a mother or a parent. And your resilience and the amount that I can imagine that trauma, and you have just continued to transform it into service and supporting others. Your story is so inspiring, Lucy. I'm curious, do you want to share anything about that, about navigating? Yeah, I do. Well, the day he was born he, was my first child, it was the happiest day of my life, and the date he died was saddest for sure.

But even that night, he kind of came to me and in my sight as a purplish color, and there's something called the violet flame. And he's been there in, I mean, it's awful, two years, five years. But I do feel that I have some contact with him and that it's helpful and then he guides me, helps me at sometimes when I do the wrong thing, makes it clear, clear too. And the day he died, we played golf together and he knew something was off because he could do the New York Times puzzle, crossword puzzle just by memory.

He says, I can't do it at all. So something's wrong with my brain. And he had done so well recovering from cocaine addiction. Then when he played golf, he couldn't play golf. Something's happening and I'm never going to play Do you want me to come with you? No." And then that night he just took cocaine and had a heart attack. It was so hard for someone to recover from addiction and he had done so well because you can't slip. And you know, people who are just trying to lose weight, they could slip and nothing like that happens.

But it's just such a high cost. People make errors in what they do in every way and every part of their life. And he just was unlucky. He was a wonderful boy. Very, very talented. I'm so sorry for him. They have a really fabulous daughter. She has three grandchildren. She named the eldest one Lucy, so that was really a gift from God. Beautiful, beautiful child that remains and now these three grandchildren. What fun. Yeah. How has this journey, particularly the Alzheimer's chapter of your journey changed your perspective on growing older and resilience and what matters most?

and protocol and inspiring other people. Yeah, it's got challenges, but if you have things to do that are rewarding and helpful to others, whatever it is in your community or family, then you're the same person. It's a little more leisurely then. And if you're blessed not to have something that gets in the way of your life, and the Alzheimer's is not in a way my life. I mean, it is, because it takes time. Yeah, you used the word leisurely. And I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention the words leisure and Bredesen Protocol in same sentence.

Hope, Aging, and Closing Reflections 40:40

Maybe will you expand on that? Well, it's very, very unlegially the protocol, but I guess the rest of my life used to be so busy. So now it is just the Bredesen Protocol. I mean, I'm still busy in other ways with philanthropy and boards and things like that, which But it's different because it is not going to the office and seeing people all day and writing it up and having the children at home. That's much higher. level of busyness. It'd be hard to put the Bredesen Protocol on top of that. You're telling me.

Yes. I know all about it. My practice is the Brenson Protocol, so I have to practice what I preach, and so we make it work. As you look ahead, what gives you the most hope in terms of brain health and humanity and neurodegenerative disease? I think I know what you might say here. Every day I pray for President Trump that the side of him is going to manifest himself that's going lead to world peace, help for the environment and the immigrants. It's the same with all the other people there. And that helps me.

I feel like the prayers, I ask that they join the Prayers of the Pope and praying people all over the world. We're going to get to world peace if enough people pray for this. Because it's a hard time now for the environment and so forth. But when I discovered that prayer helps so much, I feel good. Because when you dwell on something that you feel like you can't change, like, you're being abused by it or something, it doesn't help. At least it didn't helped me. What brings you the most joy at this stage of life?

Maybe... I have a significant other of 20 years. We live together, and I'm a young dog and two cats. And of course, my daughter is very, very high in golf. I think all of the projects that I still have, When we complete something, whether it's building a new access to one of the parks, it gets done. It's probably the same thing that most people, and it brings me a lot of joy to I can imagine you looking at your test results and every time they go up, whether it's brain age Q or the mold goes down or p-tow comes down, I could see you doing a little happy dance and that bringing you some joy.

Exactly. All of those, celebrating them. Judy Benjamin, who's going to be on your program, another time she started a foundation for the Alzheimer's Survivors Foundation so that people will know that we exist and that it's real. And of course, her walking across the United States. It's amazing. So impressive. She is really impressive, yes. So yes, please stay tuned and look for the podcast with Judy Benjamin, a dear friend of Lucy's, that will be also popping up here at Think Well, Age Well. Lucy, it is such a privilege to have you here and just has been a wonderful, wonderful conversation that I know will inspire so many people.

Whoever will take the time to listen will get some nuggets of inspiration and clarity and things to help them navigate the Bredesen Protocol. I'm so grateful to you for spending the Well, you're an inspiration, your work and how you are as a person in this podcast. So I'm very grateful to have gotten to know you. Thank you for thinking to invite me. Absolutely. Thanks, Lucy. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please take a moment to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone you care about.

It's one of the best ways to help others discover tools and inspiration for aging well. To stay connected, get bonus resources and never miss an episode, head over to drheathersanderson.com and join my email list. Until next time, keep thinking well and aging on purpose.