Diabetes, MCAS, & Histamine: Unraveling Links

Introduction to Metabolic Syndrome and Diabetes 0:00

Welcome back to our reversing mast cell activation syndrome and histamine intolerance summit. I'm your host, Dr. Meg Mill And today we're going to dive into a topic that affects so many of us. And that is metabolic syndrome and diabetes. And I recently heard a statistic that 1 in 3 people will have diabetes by 2050, which is really quite astounding. And it's something that we all need to think about in our world today. So here to talk to us about the connection between metabolic syndrome, histamine and mast cell activation syndrome is my esteemed colleague, Dr. Beverly Yates.

She's a naturopathic doctor and expert speaker, author, and the nation's leader in online type two diabetes care. Thank you so much for being with us today, Beverly. Hey. How are you doing, Meg? Thanks for having me be here as a part of your summit. I'm happy to talk with you and our audience and hopefully help people connect the dots around some of the things that go on with blood sugar, with histamine issues, you know, the mast cells. And, you know, why is it that that inflammation is going to be a connecting piece for all of these things?

Yeah. So we are excited to dive in. Before we get started, I like to just give our audience a little bit about background on who you are and how you really got into this, and to be an expert in this subject.

Dr. Beverly Yates' Background and Mold Exposure 1:24

I know we all have so many personal stories in our journey now. We sure do, don't we? Go ahead. Yes. Well, would you give us your best? Like, just. Oh, I'm so. Sorry, I forgot. Right? Right. Yeah, yeah. That's okay. Yeah, yeah. All right. We hear it again. Yeah. So we'll just say before we dive into before I'm so excited to get started, but before we dive into it, I know we all have so many personal stories in our journey that bring us to really be the experts that we are today. So I just wanted to see if you could share a little bit about yourself and what got you here.

Yeah, it's an interesting and different sort of a path for me. Right. You talk about the path less taken, right. that Robert Frost poem. So one of the things that I have in my background is MIT electrical engineering, right? I was a science nerd. Still am. Enjoy science very much. I always watch PBS Nova, things of that nature. And, when I graduated from college, you know, I went to work in Silicon Valley, of course, because that's where MIT electrical engineers go. When I moved from Silicon Valley to what we call the Silicon Forest, the Pacific Northwest, in this case, it was Portland, Oregon.

I discovered the hard way that mold is not my friend. Mold grows on the concrete there because at least in that era, it was very wet, very moist. It's a temperate rainforest. So as such, that meant that my exposure to mold was high. But it wasn't just the background mold. We were living in a home at the time that we were renting that had black mold, and it did not smell musty, so I had no idea of what kind of threat was about to unfurl for my health. Long story short, we figured out that the house was moldy and explained so many of my symptoms this weird, intense, really profound sneezing that would make my belly ache, you know, rainfall, a lack of energy.

And I was all of, like, 22 at the time. 23, which is the prime of life. You should be feeling fabulous. And I was not. My natural energy of about five people dropped it down to two. I was like, where did the other three go? So I went and I saw an allergist, a conventional medical doctor. We had shots for about a year, and I grew increasingly uncomfortable with that approach. I was like, what is in these needles? You guys are shooting me up every week, but I don't even know what's in here. And I'm a science person, you know, give me the big words.

They were reluctant to talk to me like a grown up. And I just thought, I'm not feeling good about this. The bottom line here, Meg, is this I wasn't getting better. I'm a results oriented person. I think most of us are when it comes to our health. Something's helping or it's not helping. And I felt like after here, I'd given enough time. This was I think, supposed to be like a two year sequence of injections. So during that time, my fiance, fiance and now husband of 37 plus years, he was working with the guy who, had gone to see a naturopathic physician there in Oregon and had gotten tremendous benefit from it.

And his, mold symptoms went away and it seemed like it had really reversed his issues altogether. And I was like, wow, that's for me because I want to be healthy. I want my energy back and my brain to work, you know, etc.. Long story short, seeing that naturopathic doctor for just a handful of visits made a huge difference for me. I'm forever grateful and it caught my attention. So as I became dissatisfied with my career in high tech at that point, I started doing wild crafting herb herbalist work there in the Pacific Northwest with them.

Really, at this point, I think quite renowned herbalist and it just opened my eyes to another way of approaching health and medicine. And, I went to naturopathic medical school there in Portland, Oregon, and voila, here we are. So now living in Silicon Valley, San Francisco, Bay area, and also being,

Inflammation, Blood Sugar, and Mast Cell Activation 4:46

and an MIT electrical engineer who's the naturopathic physician. You know, I bring this all together, you know, so it's all about evidence base, meeting people where they are and doing what works. Because I think really, that's where it matters for most of us. That is that that's so interesting. I love the different backgrounds that you bring together. I know, and and I mean, mold is such a huge issue and people are often living in these moldy environments and have no idea and don't really understand the way it's expressing in their health.

I think that's one of actually a really huge factor for a lot of people that have mast cell activation syndrome, so that, you know, you have personal experience bringing that in too. So here we go. That's a great well, so we know that when we the mast cells release inflammatory mediators. And this can affect inflammation and it can impact various hormones. I wanted to just start a little bit by discussing how inflammation can have an effect on insulin and glucose metabolism. If we could kind of dive into.

Yeah, I think that this is an area where the general public doesn't get good info and it isn't clearly explained. I think many people have a perception in their mind somewhere, probably that inflammation is part of the problem, but they may not know why. And I think it's almost a classic chicken and egg issue. Where which one comes first? Does inflammation come first, or is it blood sugar dysregulation comes first. Is it issues with with histamines and those mast cells breaking open and granulation you know like what is it.

and I feel like it almost doesn't matter where you start as long as you start, don't get caught up with the chicken and egg, because that's one of those things where you could wind up paralyzed and not make a decision that's useful for your health. So things that are good to know is that if you get, notice that your blood sugar is in an unhealthy place, you need to take action. Please don't kick that can down the road, because sometimes the greater harms happen. Believe it or not, at the lower a dysregulation of blood sugar.

Sometimes if people have something like pre-diabetes, they might think I'm okay. Or maybe your health care professional or your medical professional is saying you're okay. Let's just watch it. You know? And the thing is, it's like it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. If you heard the wheels on a train going by on a track, start to screech and start to throw off sparks and you see the trains are wobble on the track, you're thinking, oh is getting ready to derail. I think most of us would respond.

We would call emergency systems and ask people to come and help and, you know, do something before the train literally jumps the tracks and causes a horrendous crash. But when we have blood trigger issues and in that kind of disarray is starting to show up, people often poo poo it. They go, yeah, it's all right. Actually. You know, we look at this moment in time, so many more people have problems with their sleep. So many more people have problems with their gut. So many more people have problems with stress levels.

All of these things combine to crash our hormonal systems. This would include our insulin and blood sugar reactions. It also means we're more vulnerable to the effects of inflammation, because I think in today's world, a lot of us have fewer ways to recover from the difficult things in our life, whether it's really stressful moments, maybe it's poor sleep, maybe it's environmental toxicity, maybe it's issues with isolation and loneliness. I often wish there was a lab test for that, for isolation and loneliness, because I think that's a large part of where people are just starting to unravel, and so their blood sugar issues become worse.

Metabolic syndrome issues become worse with things like blood pressure on friendly cholesterol profiles. And then certainly if people are struggling with mast cell activation syndrome, that's just one more area of misery, right? Just feeling uncomfortable literally in the skin you're in pretty miserable. That's great. And I want to, take a step. You said something that's really profound, and I think that we just need to really wrap our heads around this two weeks and just bring it up again. So how that the metabolic syndrome piece gets ignored because I.

So when I was back in functional medicine, my getting my education, I had an opportunity to present to the the educator. And I was so excited I wrote up this whole case. It was a client I was seeing and I, you know, it was it was actually presenting and showing all of the ways that we could interject and really help this person. And, person went to this the same week that I did this presentation and got the confirmation that this is we had this great treatment plan. The he went to his primary care doctor who told him everything looked great.

He was doing all of the right things, that everything was great and fine, and he was right on that direction to get diabetes. And it was like right on that, that pre-diabetic. And it was just it was like deflating because it's that this disconnect where people are getting two different stories. Yeah. That's a great point that you bring up. People are getting two different stories. It's almost like an alternate timeline scenario. Sometimes, you know, if you watch movies or if you read books and, you know, you think about, well, what if 1 or 2 key things had changed?

So I invite people listening to think about their health. What if 1 or 2 key things that are not quite right for your health right now were to change, and to change in a positive way? What would your outcome look like? It's probably, you know, going to be this, that your life span and your health span will align. So let's say your life span has you on a trajectory to live to either 87 years old. But what if your health span means your health is going to run out when you're about 57 to 64? Then that means you're going to have 23 to 28 years where your health is not good.

You may not enjoy being alive, right? Instead, you know, through this summit, other educational things that we do, we're inviting people to have the health span equal the life span. I really think that needs to be the goal going forward, because as we look around the planet, human, longevity is increasing, but human life quality is not there out of there, I would think.

Metabolic Syndrome, Stress, and Hormonal Dysregulation 10:28

And I think we have to look at our younger years and our middle aged years to correct what's going to happen when we're that much older. So when we look at metabolic syndrome, we look at what's going on, cholesterol profiles, you know, you see so many more people with really high levels of cholesterol and not because they have good high amounts of HDL. Typically, as women age, often we get a gift that nobody tells us about, which is that, our HDL, our high density protein fraction of our, blood fats, our blood lipids goes up with age, which might bump your cholesterol number a little higher.

But to me, that's okay, because those are the protective, fluffy, buoyant particles of cholesterol. They don't stick. They don't cause heart attacks and strokes. That's all good part of that metabolic syndrome, you know, profile. Similarly, you look at blood pressure, you look at weight, other things that are tagged on together with metabolic syndrome. I think for a lot of people, maybe it's just kind of hard to get their head around, what is it and what do I do about it? And then we look at mast cell activation, you know, syndrome.

You think about the inflammation profile there. I think anytime you have inflammation from whatever source it could be in an alias like arthritis, it could be mast cell activation syndrome, it could be from heart disease, it could be from diabetes. You know, they tend to interact. And some of these inflammatory conditions multiply each other. They don't just add up. It's not like two plus two equals four. It's more like two plus two plus two plus two. Right now you've got eight. It's doubled. Maybe you know, you take the whole thing and you double it again.

Now it's 16. It's far more impactful. So it's better to, you know, straighten out at least one. And you start to untangle and unravel the issues with the other because these things are related. That's why doing the work on mast cell activation syndrome or doing the work with your gut, doing the work with your sleep, doing the work with your blood sugar will yield benefits across the board. We don't have a compartmentalized body. You know, if you take your car to the shop and something's not right, you know, you fix that.

Well, we're far more complex. And the good news is, the work in one area absolutely spills over in a wonderful way to other areas of health. There's no wrong place to start. It's my clinical experience. Great. And do you see, you know, we're talking about some of those chicken and the egg. You see metabolic stress and diabetes exacerbate the the release of mast cells activation and the release of histamine. Definitely. Definitely. I often see it in two particular, groups of folks, people who travel a lot, whether it's for work or family emergencies or whatever.

They tend to be more vulnerable for this. The other group, I would say would be, first responders, because too often their jobs are just so stressful. They can be members of the military. They could be police officers, firefighters, they could be social workers who are there in the hospital hearing sometimes horrible things, people who work in the front lines, you know, emergency rooms, ICUs, nick youths, etc. where the performance demand is real. They need to be on in a big way. You know, surgeons, you know, there's a certain groups who I feel are more vulnerable to some of these things because their careers leaves them in a more vulnerable state, because they get into that big state of alarm, that fight or flight superhero mode, if you will, with the release of cortisol, anytime cortisol is released in a big amount, here comes blood sugar.

Your glucose is going to go up to meet it because your body, your brain, your heart are being told, hey, we have an emergency to respond to whether we're going to go and be the superhero, if we're going to fight or we're going to flee, whatever it is, it's going to take the activity of our large muscles. So your body mobilizes that extra blood sugar, like glucose, to respond to it. But what if you're not doing anything that physical? What if you're driving the emergency vehicle through the city and you're trying not to hit, you know, the parents with the kid in a stroller, somebody who's on a scooter?

Not maybe not paying attention, somebody that earbuds in, not paying attention, etc.. Right. So your own sense of dread is going up, even though you're doing something very helpful to someone else, your job might be fundamentally harmful to your own health. But that's just one example. What if you're a school teacher and you have so many demands on your time and energy, you are underpaid, and meanwhile, you know you don't have the resources to do your job as well as you would like. There's a lot of situations that go on.

What if you are the rock in your family? I think this this segment is on diabetes. One of the things I've observed a lot about people in the diabetic community for type two and prediabetes, is that specifically they're often considered the cornerstone, the rock in their family, in their community, in their church or religious organization group, in your community center, their neighborhood, whatever. They they're the ones who are the go to person, the fixer, if you will, in in that role, then they're taking care of others, but they're not taking care of themselves.

It's often not enough, enough left of them around at the end of the day. And then they feel like, hey, I can prioritize myself. That's why I tell people, make yourself a priority by starting out the day with your self-care. Make sure your exercise happens, things like that, on the front end of the day before the day gets away from you, because otherwise it probably won't happen. So when you think about Marcel activation, what goes on with it? The things I've seen is that people will get into these internal where they get really itchy and they often will get itchy and will be worse that night when cortisol drops.

Right. You know, they're also be, having situations where their skin might erupt. They'll have all of these different symptoms, things that they're experiencing that some of us can see externally as signs that are clearly indicating that the body is really struggling. It's not able to deal with the situation as it currently is configured. Yeah. that I know it is. And you make the good points. Also, there are the nervous system regulation and the stress that we're under. That's a key component. And I feel like in healing and healing and I actually incorporate that into all areas of practice.

But particularly when you're dealing with something like this where your body's reacting in such a strong way, just getting those cortisol levels regulated, getting your body back into that parasympathetic nervous system, those all can be really important things to do. Absolutely, absolutely. And in today's world, a lot of times, you know, you really have to consciously create that space. It doesn't seem to necessarily be a part of people's routine or day to day. You know, back in the day long ago, all of our ancestors, they had to get away from immediate threat to their well-being, right?

Whether it was an animal in the wild that might attack them,

Diet, Food Sensitivities, and Delayed Reactions 16:48

things like that. But once they banded together and were able to find a way to find shelter and safety, water and food, then there would be natural rhythms throughout the course of seasons and years where, you know, there would be some times to chill out, to beat together. They weren't under threat all the time. Now, we often have lifestyles where people perceive that they are under threat all the time. It's a very different environment and this is not good for any of our healing mechanisms. We weren't really built for this, so we're going to have to adapt.

And I like how you exaggerated perceived because when we I talk about that a lot too because your body's responding to your perceived threat. So if you can change them and rewire some of that thinking and get your self-healing calm, that can make a big difference too. So when you're so let's talk about dietary approaches, because a lot of people that are struggling with histamine intolerance or mast cell activation syndrome or both, really have limited choices with food. And what I think gets complicated is because some of these foods are healthy foods.

So if someone who has to avoid high histamine foods or salicylates oxalate, so it can be complicated and then really looking at glucose control, do you have any advice for people who are trying to manage all of this? Yeah, a few things. One, I'd say, let's start with this. Give yourself some grace. You're now acknowledging that you're a puzzle, a real time living puzzle, and you're going to have to figure out how the pieces fit together. Some of us are definitely more sensitive to the kinds of foods we eat, and have more in the way of perhaps food intolerances or sensitivity to the foods that are higher in these histamine producing, results.

Some of us are pretty bulletproof. Not much bothers us, right? We're okay so we can even be in the same family. And this can be challenging in a household because if you've got 1 or 2 people that say who have methyl activation syndrome and everybody else seems to be okay now, you can eat and drink anything they want, then it becomes a challenge, right? Like so, you know, for who are we cooking? Right. Going out the restaurant. I know families really sometimes struggle with this. so those are some of the things to be aware of.

Others to consider is just noticing how you feel. You know and understand. Tell me if this is what your experience has been. Make my observation that some of these reactions lag and time unlike, say, something obvious like anaphylactic shock or reactions where there's a big immune response, then it's quick and inside of a half hour, people know if they're having an anaphylactic reaction, right, that the emergency room get EpiPen, all of that. You know, it's usually brought on by a very specific kinds of foods, well known, well-documented phenomenon.

But what if your issues are delayed in time by 2448, maybe even 72 hours three days later? Like, who remembers what they had for breakfast that then triggered on Monday? It triggered on Thursday. Three days later, all of these problems, it's it's just it just adds to the complexity. So then when we look at blood sugar, that's another one, right? Sometimes people get on a blood sugar rollercoaster and they don't even realize it. But then later on they'll think, wait, I felt really spacey or foggy for about two hours after I ate that.

I wonder if it was my blood sugar? Is the are the foods or foods that I eat in combination? What are those things that I know that are food intolerances for me? Maybe I'm not aware of it. So I say test. Don't guess you can do food testing to find out what your reactions are. You can also use, a device to stick your finger and get a drop of blood. Right? Put on test, put that in a glucometer or because this hurts to do this quite honestly, where a glucometer for two weeks 14 days attached to an app on your smartphone and then you'll know what your blood sugar is doing, and it'll be interesting to see the relationship between your blood sugar responses to how you eat, how you live, the things you drink, your exercise versus what's going on with mast cell activation syndrome for you.

There's likely going to be some overlap, and it could be times when your blood sugar spiked might also be a time when your mast cells are also the granulated releasing of histamine because they perceive a threat and they're reacting right. So it's just it's fascinating to see where the dance could be. And for most people, I don't want this to feel overwhelming at all. I'm going to tell you, for most people, it's 2 or 3 very specific things that are going to unlock it. For you. That'll be the key triggers, if you will.

And if you get a handle on it, it's going to transform all the rest of it. It's important. It's like that 8020 thing. You got to focus on the most important things and get that better. And then you can work on other things. So please give yourself some grace. This is this is a journey. And you made such a great point with the delayed reactions in the I usually have people write down when they're getting a flare what they've had in the past, like you're saying some 48, 72 hours because it gets so complicated.

You think oh I ate that two three days ago. It's fine. I didn't have the reaction. But you could be reacting to foods that you're not even aware of. Can we jump a little bit into the CGM? Because I wore one and became obsessed, and it was one of those things that looked like all day long. And then I became obsessed with my blood sugar. And I'm like, okay, I want to do this for a check, but I don't know if I can wear it every single day because I but I know it's such a valuable tool and I think people are so interested in this.

So can we talk a little bit about what to look for and what they should be paying attention to if they wear one? Sure, sure. So if you make use of a CGM, right. There's different ones. There's you know, Abbott Dexcom is other companies that make them a few things to know just from a practical standpoint. If you get like delivery three, it's really small, much smaller than this white circle, just that little gray circle in there and a little needle will be injected. So when you press down on the device, it goes on your arms peel off.

And curious how does this work? And so if you have prediabetes or type two diabetes, this is going to give you some beautiful, precious, actionable insights into what is going on with your blood sugar. If you have mast cell activation syndrome, it might be great to get a prescription. If you're here in the U.S, if you're other parts of the world, you don't need a prescription. Just get make use of the device to give you these insights for that two week period, because then you'll know with clarity how you are responding.

If you find with exercise that your blood sugar goes up, don't freak out. That's a normal response. Your blood sugar should go up when you're exercising. Why? Because active working muscles are blood sugar sponges, so your body gets a signal that you're working out, you're exercising.

Using CGMs to Track Blood Sugar Patterns 22:58

It's going to release more blood sugar than meets the demand of these muscles. Once you're done with their exercise, your blood sugar should come back, hopefully to a healthy range within a half hour to an hour. So I just wanted to put that out there, because that's the number one question I get about like, oh my blood sugar exercise. No no no, not to worry. And after your exercise is down, your exercise is completed rather your blood sugar will come back down okay. So don't blame exercise. It's not a bad thing.

It's a good thing. So for Marcelle and these delayed reactions with, the symptoms that often go with it, I think for a lot of people requires patience and a commitment to figure out their own personal puzzle, because I think it's very easy to feel flustered or confused or feel like you're doomed. Like you need to just give up. when people travel, they don't have the same control over what they eat. And that's a whole nother confounding factor. Like what is in what you ate. You went to the restaurant, you saw what you thought was in the foods, but chances are they put some more stuff in there than what's on the menu.

Now, what right are you reacting? Maybe to corn starch? are you reacting to, any of a number of things that might be added, including added sugar in a recipe, even though it didn't taste sweet to you? Like there's just enough variables here to make you just a little crazy. I think. you know, it's. And it becomes it does it becomes that puzzle and just figuring out all the pieces of the puzzle. But I just see people get, you know, what's wonderful is I just see people get so much better and better at it.

I think once you start doing it and you tune into it and then it becomes like, oh, I know that, and I know that. And then you have the power you have are empowered to really have control. And I think that's the other thing, feeling like you have control over your own health, over your own reactions. You don't just have to let them happen to you. You have more control over what's actually happening to your body, which is really empowering. It's really empowering. It's good to know you might also be needlessly worrying about some things.

I have definitely seen that in my clinical career. People are convinced that X, Y, and Z is bad for them. And then when we go through these processes and really test and find out what's happening, you know, they go, oh, but when I do these things, it's not as bad as I thought. Or maybe you travel and you think that every time you change time zones, it's going to just destroy your blood sugar, right? Because of the obvious impact on sleep, you might find that you are far more resilient than you understood.

And if, on the other hand, you know you're the person who has a really erratic sleep schedule, you might find that that's actually not good for you. It's a large part of the problem. You have got to fix your sleep habits and sleep hygiene in order to have healthy blood sugar levels. Literally. It's usually, you know, two, maybe three things you got to pay attention to. It's not 37 things, it's a handful. But the consistency, I think, is the thing that all of us as human beings, we struggle with.

We just do, you know, we're human. Yeah. So give yourself grace again her message and, and just take one thing at a time. So if we're looking at treatment strategies sometimes people with mast cell activation syndrome are very sensitive. Do you have any strategies for managing treatment in that case. That's a great point that you bring up here Meg. Yeah. People who have MCAs often are quite sensitive. They've become sensitive if they weren't already and can feel like they're on a hair trigger. The strategies that I've used over the years, involve, number one, as part of giving yourself grace is we pick one thing to work on at a time.

This way it's not emotionally overwhelming and it's not physiologically overwhelming. So we might start in on, let's say, foods, or we might start in on environmental things, like maybe if someone is in a moldy place or we suspect there might be mold involved, for instance, in their immediate environment. and then from there, you see how they respond. You know, a quick story to share with, with your audience here is, I remember one of the most profound times I had in my clinic working with a mom whose two sons had different health problems.

One son was autistic, and she was in the journey of figuring that out and nailing down a diagnosis and getting her son some help. The older son, though, who seemingly from her point of view was a mom and shout out the moms!

Treatment Strategies for Sensitive Mast Cell Patients 26:48

Moms are amazing. All parents are amazing. But I got to say, moms of all the different responsibility in a family, she, was understandably paying more attention to the kid who had autism the younger child, and not the older child. Well, it turned out, long story short, the younger child eventually started to develop these gastrointestinal pains that just were really severe. He would wake up screaming, he would start screaming, and crying and all day. At that point, he was about eight years old. Right?

Well that's terrifying. If you're a parent. And so she was part of a large or her family was part of a large HMO organization, I'm going to name it right now. And I tried my best to get the gastroenterologist over the other pediatric gastroenterologist to work with this family and to test this young man. And they wouldn't do it. They would not test this boy at all. So I did it. So I did these tests and come to find out and food intolerance tests. And here's the thing. The mom to her credit, she had done a great job with the dietary.

That was back when I used diet diaries for people to write down. You know, the things you have for breakfast, for lunch, for dinner. She didn't write down the condiments, and I didn't think to ask her to write down the condiments. Well, it turned out this eight year old boy, he was eating mustard with every meal. Guess what showed up at the highest level of food intolerance on the testing mustard. Who would have thought it? Well, we cut out the mustard. And guess who? Stop screaming and being in pain and misery.

Yeah, it was mustard. So I'm just saying, give yourself some grace and do the due diligence. Do the homework. Please cooperate with whoever is trying to help you, because sometimes you're going to uncover something that is not obvious, but it's the culprit. You know, there might really be a few things, or it could be a whole host of things or food families like you talked about earlier. May, you know this. Let's let's, other things that we know are high histamine foods. And, you know, it's worth going through, just like when people have gout, you know, and they have to look at certain kinds of foods.

Same idea. Food is medicine. Medicine is food. And it's an easy it's not I guess it's a simple place to start. It's not easy because you have to make changes. But I agree simple. It's you can make those changes without you know I agree with you. And where I see huge differences when we do the testing, when we can actually pinpoint those exact point, it just cuts through everything and we're able to get the data that we need to support you in the exact way we need to support you. But you can just start making some of those shifts and really, you know, start the food diary and make and pay attention to foods and all of those things right now and, and see if you can find that culprit and that can it can make such a huge difference sometimes.

Yeah. It's it's amazing to me. and I agree with you 100%, 1,000% around the idea of the fact that something is simple doesn't make it easy. So, you know, often that gets underappreciated, right? That's never going to be the source of a dramatic TV show. Oh, it was mustard causing all these problems. But in terms of life quality for this eight year old boy. Oh wow. That's huge right? Yes. He didn't. Well then you don't even want to eat them up. You get to the point. I always say the magic happens when you get to that point where you're making the choice because you feel so much better that you're not doing it because someone told you to.

You're doing it because you want to. And that really, I see that happen every day. I'm sure you do too. Yeah, yeah, it's really great. You know, my work with diabetics, I'm thinking one in particular, one woman who just took charge of her blood sugar, her whole situation, and, you know, her big thing was nothing. Tastes as good as healthy feels. Yeah. Love it.

Closing Thoughts and Where to Find Dr. Yates 30:18

Right. She she really took ownership. You like. You know what? yeah. yeah. Well, that. Yeah. That's wonderful. You've given us such great, helpful information. Can you tell our audience where they can find you if they want to learn more? Sure. If you'd like to learn more, you're welcome to go to my website, which is naturalhealthcare.com, and you take me on social media. My handle is usually going to be @DrBeverlyYates spelled B E V E R L Y Y A T E S Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube. You know, the usual places.

Great. Well, thank you so much for being with us today, Beverly. All right. Thank you. Take care. Meg. I know this is going to be great audience, you know check it out and make sure you're listening to all these wonderful episodes. Meg's got you. Thank you. Have a great day everyone.