Discover The Power Of Your Self-Healing Mind

Introduction to Depression, Anxiety, and Self-Healing 0:00

When it comes to depression, for example, most statistics show that women are diagnosed with depression about twice as often as men are. Now, many people may interpret that to think that woman are at higher risk for developing depression. They're actually not, right? Because we know that the suicide rate among men is about three to four times that of women. And part of the reason why, in my view, is because men are not talking about it, right? They're not being diagnosed. They are getting treatment.

This is Dr. Talks. Hi everybody, welcome back. This is Dr. Drew Ramsey and we're here for another piece of our wonderful series, Depression and Anxiety Solutions, and I have with me a wonderful psychiatrist, a good friend, Dr Gregory Scott Brown. He's really one of the rising stars of psychiatry. We're going to be talking all about self-healing, which is really the focus of the summit. What can we all do in our everyday lives? What are the habits that we can engage in? How can take better cares of our mental and emotional health?

Dr. Brown, it's so great to see you, buddy. Welcome to the Summit. Nice to be with you too. Thanks for having me. Well, we're going to be taking some of the real valuable lessons from The Self-Healing Mind, Dr. Brown's latest book, all about the power of self-healing that we possess in the Real Powerful Lifestyle Medicine. Greg, let's just get started right there. Can you tell us a little bit, what is the self healing mind? So the self-care mind, Drew, it's this idea that, you know, self care is evidence-based medicine.

It's a powerful tool. And I think many people by now know that there's lot of evidence showing that antidepressants can work, anxiety medications can to work. But then when it comes to selfcare, we think, maybe nutrition won't work or maybe mindfulness or breath work won' t work but, what I offer here in the book is that a time-tested and evidence-based strategies that anyone can use regardless of where you live or your walk in life that can help improve your mental health, including reducing symptoms of depression and anxiety.

Greg, why do you think there is that bias that some of the lifestyle factors or intervention that you mentioned, meditating or improving our sleep hygiene Why sometimes don't we think those work? You know, I think it's interesting because the lifestyle factors that you and I advocate for have been around, you know forever right since before You can pose that was FDA approved in 1994, right? But I think that, you know, in today's high-demanding, fast-paced society, I thing many of us are looking for a quick fix.

Why Lifestyle Medicine Matters 3:00

I mean, we have these new faster-acting drugs that are coming out of ALT. It's a fast acting antidepressant that was recently FDA-approved. You know we're looking into treatments like ketamine and psilocybin, which again, there are a lot of the good evidence to support those treatments, but I think we just want treatments that will work faster. And I have a lot more expectations when it comes to the results that those types of treatments can produce rather than these self-care techniques. Greg, I hope everybody listening really took that in because I know that really affects me and how I deal with my mental health in terms of, you know, as much as we all advocate lifestyle, it takes effort.

and it's not immediate. And sometimes we're not sure, you know, is eating these better foods really going to help my anxiety? Is meditating today really gonna, make a difference with my depression? And so we don't have sometimes that immediate, feeling that we can with other interventions. Greg, can we think about the parts maybe that we should look to in our life and lifestyle that are the biggest contributors to increasing the amount of depression and the amounts of anxiety that people experience?

You know, I think right now, Drew, and I'm not sure what your experience has been talking to patients, but I do think burnout is huge. And so we know in 2019, the World Health Organization recognize burnout as a clinical and occupational syndrome. So if you're waking up feeling cynical about your day or cynical bout your life, you are physically and mentally exhausted all the time and you starting to notice that you not performing as well at work or at home. I mean those are symptoms of burnout.

Some studies actually show that about 90% of us are feeling burned out. And we know that the path between burnout and depression or some of these other more serious mental illnesses is a slippery slope. So I think that's a huge contributing factor these days. Burnout is something we're all hearing about, I think a lot of people listening really resonate with. It does lead to that challenging spot that if you are in the midst of a busy life, which most people are, maybe for you that's dealing with family or work, it's not so clear sometimes what to do about burnout.

I remember I spoke to the American Psychiatric Association president several years ago and she was reporting to me she really needed two solid weeks off. That first week, you know, she just really was recuperating, napping, and it was in that second week she began to feel better from burnout. And I remember thinking that's a tall order for a lot of people taking two weeks of. What should we do if we're starting to feeling burned out? Yeah, I mean, that is another reason why we are looking to these medications, right?

It's like I don't have time for self-care. I don't have time to meditate, you know, I didn't get a good night's sleep, right? So if I take this pill, and sleep for four hours, or don' t take time t prepare nutrient-dense meals, then that will help me get through my busy life. But I think that we have to continue to remind people that even if you're carving out 10 minutes a day, You're not asking people here to totally revamp their life. Just a little bit of time every day can go a long way when it comes to self-care.

Oh, such a big point, Greg, and I think everybody who's thinking about self-care knows this is true, but we get a distortion in our perception.

Burnout and Small Daily Self-Care Steps 7:00

Cooking a nutrient-dense meal, especially if you're struggling with depression or anxiety, that feels like a Herculean task. That's a mountain to climb. It's going to the grocery store, it's chopping all the vegetables. the pleasure of it and the often efficiency of, it gets lost and gets kind of distorted because of symptoms. So I think it's a very important aspect of burnout for us to recognize because there is a way you do have to take some actions when you're feeling overwhelmed, cynical, as you mentioned, not having a lot of motivation, maybe not believing in yourself and in the efforts that you can take to improve your mental health.

Addressing burnout is just a huge part of self-care and a big part, it sounds like, for you, Greg, as we think about the self healing mind. What can we do in our daily life and our practice? Can you tell us a little bit, you know, the just 10 minutes? We hear that a lot, and I'm not sure people believe that. What do you recommend to patients if we have just ten minutes in terms of, improving our mood, improve our anxiety? It's kind of a tall order. I think all of us psychiatrists tend to avoid that question.

It, it's about maybe longer term or deeper work, but we've only got ten minute, what can we do? I think, I mean, you want to start where you can, right? So in the book I outline five essential pillars of self-care, sleep, spirituality, nutrition, breath work, and movement. And, people who have read the books oftentimes will ask me, okay, there's a lot there, where do I start? And maybe it's, if you have 10 minutes and you're just focusing on paying attention to your breath that day, the breathwork.

So each of us takes between 20 and 30,000 breaths every single day. Talk about an evidence-based practice that can help reduce anxiety. That's probably one of the most underutilized ones, right? Because we know that there's several different ways that we can manipulate. um, our breath, whether it's four, seven, eight breathing, that's when you inhale, uh, for four seconds, hold for seven seconds and exhale for eight seconds. Um, or a practice that is commonly utilized in yoga called a pranayama breath.

Which is, um. You know. Some people call it the victorious breath. It's when you apply some constriction to your glottis, the back of your throat, you inhale and you exhale and kind of hear the sound of the ocean in your ears. I mean, these types of practices have been studied, Drew, and they've been shown to activate the parasympathetic nervous system, also increase the presence of GABA in the brain. uh, increase alpha waves on EEGs, right? And these are all physiologic, uh markers of rest and relaxation.

So I'd say if someone just has 10 minutes, Right? Um, reading about different types of breath work and just, you know, paying attention to your breath for 10 Minutes is a good place to start. Yeah, and I think anybody, wherever you are listening, I'd ask you right now just to do a four, seven, eight breathes. You're listening to the rest of this episode, meaning just inhaling through your nose, holding the breath for a moment. I love this part personally, where you can feel the heart beating, you feel a sense of stillness.

For me, that gives me a chance of control. Okay, now I can create a common sense still in myself. And then the exhalation, like the superced lips, I try to make mine really long. I kind of break the counting rule in the sense that I inhale until my lungs are full, I hold my breath for a number of moments, and then I exhale as long as I can. And that exhalation, that really is just a wonderful part of this that I think oftentimes people miss. So try a few of those as you're listening and yeah, test us out.

See what you think of it. Again, starting with 10 minutes, that first step, especially if you are burned out, you've got to see this as a really small step folks. It's got to be something you can achieve and that's why we want you to try it right now. So Greg, in addition to being a board certified psychiatrist and active practice, I also know you're a yogi. Yoga has been a huge part of your mental health and your fitness. Can you tell us about your involvement in yoga? What got you started and how it helps?

So I actually started practicing yoga after getting a, I think a Groupon about two decades ago. And I had no idea how yoga was going to change my life. But at the time, what I noticed was that after I went to a yoga class, not only felt better physically, but I felt a sense of calmness.

Breathwork for Anxiety Relief 12:00

I've felt the sense a peace. It would be years later until I came to appreciate that yoga and specifically the combination of movement and breath is actually evidence-based practice, is an evidence based practice that can actually help reduce anxiety and boost mood. Now, a little bit earlier we were talking about the power of breath work. One of the other self-care pillars that I discuss in self healing mind is movement, right? And so there's a lot of evidence that when we move our bodies, we're actually allowing our neurons, our brain cells to communicate with each other.

more efficiently by enhancing the presence of a protein called brain-derived neurotrophic factor, BDNF, right? So that allows, sort of acts like fertilizer in the brain and allows serotonin and dopamine and norepinephrine, these chemicals that are really important for our mental health to reach optimal levels. So what I love about yoga, again, is that it allows breath work and movement to be combined for that purpose. And everybody, I want you to know Dr. Brown is talking about movement, and we're not talking exercise.

This is a very intentional decision that you and I have made in our language, Greg, that the exercise culture, no pain, not gain, this extreme notion of fitness, you know, it works for some people and it's great for them. They're very engaged. For most people, that doesn't work. For more people who are struggling with a more sedentary lifestyle or struggling depression and anxiety symptoms, which can really make it hard for us to get out or engage or do something like a yoga class, movement is such an important way for to think about it.

And the data tells us that movement, Greg, you saw that recent study, the most effective movement in terms of effect size for treating depression more than antidepressants, more then aerobic exercise was dancing. I believe it. I'm sure a lot of folks watching saw that kind of study make the headlines, make rounds in the media. Now I am inspired to work with Dan. Yeah, well, you know, it's something that a lot of folks, a lotta men, last time you danced was at a friend's wedding maybe, but it a great example of how we need to reconceptualize how physical activity, how do we talk about it, and what kind of recommendations we're making to patients.

I'm not telling everyone how go get dancing, I certainly mention it. And I have a patient who part of a recovery from a severe depression for her, Well, she took up tango dancing again. It kind of blew my mind. A really depressed woman. I was seeing her for years and she was really much perkier when I said, hey, how's it going? Was it this? was it that? She said you know what it was is I started dancing. And I just kind illustrated the findings of the study and my clinical practice in a way that really impacted me.

Really made me mention this a little bit more to folks. And I would imagine cancel too, because I'll tell you, when I was in medical school, I did a Lindy Hop class for a couple of months, right? And one of the things that, you know, they play Louis Armstrong. I'm not a very good dancer, but that was an enlightening experience. And, and I'd say for couple different reasons, not only the movement aspect of it, connection as well. I mean, you're out, and you are meeting new people. You're getting out of the house.

And we know that we are enduring a loneliness epidemic as well too. So any way that you can connect with other people, whether you connecting with a friend, or you connected with your partner, your spouse, by way of dancing, I think you could see how that would improve mental health aswell. Yeah, there's something playful about dancing and something about overcoming our own maybe shyness or anxiety about people seeing us, people, seeing as move our bodies. You know, that that trauma, it feels like almost everyone has about that middle school dance where you're feeling so awkward.

And, you know you hearing that mantra dance like no one's watching. But everyone's watch. So really, I heard I appreciate folks who are watching and listening, maybe struggling with really some depressive symptoms, anxiety symptoms. Maybe this sounds like really an extreme task, signing up for a dance class. But if it's in your wheelhouse, one of those things that can really help you in terms of movement, in term of mood, and terms anxiety and playfulness, right? That kind of fun, playful feeling you get with other people.

Now, Greg, let's get back to yoga for a second, though, because I want to give people a couple poses in this talk, or at least one. Are there a few yoga poses that help? Because, you know, going back that notion, we just need to start if we're struggling with self-care with a minutes a day. Everybody thinks yoga.

Yoga, Movement, and Mood 17:00

I mean, I just did this, and I was like, oh, should go to a yoga class, so I should sign up. There's a couples of studios close by. Where am I going to find the time? If we only have a, few minutes, are there some poses you find effective for yourself and your patients? You know, my favorite pose is probably the easiest one and that's Savasana. So at the end of yoga class, Savasa, so you're laying on your back, right? Your feet are spread, your palms are facing up. I mean, it's a meditative pose that really allows you.

And some people will choose to put one hand on their heart, the other hand their belly, right? You can feel your heartbeat, feel the rise and fall of your belly. Your eyes are closed. Um, and you can almost, when you're in that pose, again, usually your ride to that post at the end of a yoga class, but you could almost feel. The stress, the tension, anxiety from the day, just, Just melting away, Right? So you physically just letting go. of everything. And so I think it's a great place to start again.

It's not physically demanding. I'm not suggesting that you have to stand on top of your hat or do anything that's going to exert yourself physically. But I think that's a great place to start. There's another practice called yoga nidra that has some really good evidence. Actually, there's psychologist by the name of Richard Miller, who did a lot of studies looking into the relationship between yoga Nidara and sleep quality. So back in the seventies, he was doing these studies and found that 10 to 15 minutes of yoga a day can actually improve sleep quality, right?

And most of the yoga nidra practice takes place in savasana, lying on your back, so I think that that's a great pose for anyone who's new to yoga to try out. For folks who maybe are thinking of this just lying on my back on the floor and a little maybe skeptical, is there a way to kind of invoke a bit more of the feeling you're talking about? I really like the recommendation, you know, the hand on heart, hand the belly or palms up, little simple adjustments like that. Right. You know I think the most important thing here, Drew, if anyone is skeptical and I'd say a lot of people are, it's to really give yourself permission to acknowledge Two things after you, say you're in Sravastana, you are spending five minutes there, one hand on your heart, the other hand is on you belly.

paying attention to your breath, paying to attention your thoughts. Do that for five minutes and then give yourself permission to ask yourself, okay, how does my body feel after this exercise? And be brutally honest with yourself. Right? Then what's the state of my mind? How does mine mind feel at the end of this exercises? Now I'll say that most people, not everyone, but most will notice a positive improvement In the way that their body and their mind feels and that's what I think will allow people to continue to come back to that But if you just do it and then go on about your day You know without necessarily making that connection that hey I feel better when I do this and it's easy to take experiences like that for granted Yeah, it's easy to stay in the cynicism that things don't work.

I bet everybody listening can relate to that idea. Um, I think some of us, especially when we're struggling with our mental health, we get a little stubborn. And maybe, um, aren't as optimistic, of course, that's part of the illness and, you know, kind of live in some worry and some doubt. So being honest, but also noticing the effects. It's hard to take a few deep breaths if you're upset and not have it have some noticeable effect. And it's like, hi, you know how long, and I'll just add this, I think it was really important.

When it comes to Prozac, for example, like how does it take for ProZac to work? You're not going to notice an effect immediately, right? It takes weeks before these antidepressants to produce an affect. But why do patients want you to take their pill every day, because they believe that after that two week, three week four week mark, it's going to start to work. And oftentimes it does. So I would argue, and I think evidence supports this argument that when it comes to yoga, even, you know, assuming it is Vashana pose or, four, seven, eight breathing, just paying attention to your breath works a lot faster, right?

Than some of these antidepressants, because again, most people will notice a response even after 60 seconds of intentional breath work was a very powerful thing. It's a really great point for us all to remember that there's consistency and an investment of time. And if we try something once or twice and throw it away, you go to one dance lesson and it reminds you of your eighth grade dance, that's it. As opposed to sticking it out. I have a patient who's really been inspiring me with this. He's signed up for some different groups, really introverted gentlemen, and really hard for him to socialize, but he keeps going.

They said to me, I keep going, he's volunteering at the shelter, volunteering in Habitat for Humanity. And after it's been about a month, he's starting to notice more connections. He's got more fun interactions going on with people. But it is still a challenge. And so change takes time. It doesn't take forever, but making sure that when you're engaged in the practice of lifestyle medicine and engaging your self-healing mind, That you make sure that you have an appropriate time horizon. There isn't an expectation that, you know, it's all better right away.

And I know that's most folks listening have experience with their mental health. Don't feel that way. You know we know it takes time that things go up and down. I can't get through this interview without asking you about spirituality, because it's not something that gets talked about enough in mental health. There's been, I think, a renewed interest in that. That is certainly more of a focus. But I'm not sure people know what to do. If you weren't raised within a church or spiritual institution, you know, it is often a little elusive.

Can you tell us a bit about how you guide people to take care of their spiritual health? So what I find, this is one of my favorite things to talk about, Drew, because when I ask patients, I asked all of patients at their first appointment if they believe spirituality is important for their mental health or what role spirituality plays in their health.

Spirituality, Purpose, and Connection 24:00

And I would say almost all them will tell me that it's important regardless of whether or not they're religious, right? And so I think the important thing here to keep in mind is that religion is just one of many manifestations or one many ways to practice spirituality. I thing when most people think about spirituality, the word that comes to mind connection. Right. People who are religious will view their spiritual spirituality as a way of connecting to a higher power like God through prayer. Right?

But people who aren't religious might view, their spirituality, as altruism, selfless service, you know, connecting with the people around them or connecting, with their environment or, or their inner self by way, of meditation. So the thing that spirituality does is it gives people, I think, a sense of purpose. And it can be a very grounding experience as well. Well, thank you for that. And it's such a nice note for us to think about this way that spirituality is often just considered religion.

If you didn't have that or don't that in your life, as opposed to this notion that really it is about fostering a sense of human connection or spiritual connection to a higher power, to nature, a way of really settling in and thinking about a larger purpose for ourselves, something that's really important, especially when we're struggling. Having that beacon, that lighthouse that you have a sense, a clear sense is a purpose, for yourself. Really, really, important especially in darker moments to keep moving towards that light.

So thank you for that, Greg. Are there readings or exercises or, you know, if I were your patient, I said, You know Greg, spirituality is important for mental health, but I'm kind of burned out and I don't have a lot of time for it. Like, I dunno, what should I do? What kind things do you recommend? Well, connecting with your inner self, we already discussed meditation is great for that. I think altruism, again, volunteering your time. That can be a powerful way to really see how you connect with the people around you.

You may be feeling totally worthless, but then that small act, you know, always think of my grandmother when I would spend summers with her. You know, she never had a whole lot of money, but every summer, I mean, every Monday we'd go down to the soup kitchen and we make a soup for the homeless community. Right. And, you know it's like that would totally. fill her cup, right? It's like, I'm here for a reason. I am giving back, i'm contributing. You'd think that she was the wealthiest person alive in that moment, so I think even just looking for small things like that, like how can I give back to someone else today, right?

How can I fill someone else's cup? In many ways can allow people to feel like, okay, they're here for a reason and there's a broader purpose that they may not even understand. And that can totally help when it comes to allowing people, to navigate depression or other mental illnesses as well. So such a wonderful piece of counsel for us, a little kernel, little nugget of wisdom as we say, or a pearl as you say in medicine. This notion of volunteering, of giving to others when we're struggling with ourself is such powerful lesson.

I'm sure everyone who's experienced that knows something about what Dr. Brown is speaking of. Greg, I found myself in the mission shelter on Friday, just a few days ago. I had been called there. They had someone who was a little agitated. I hadn't been in that setting in a while. Used to be in community mental health when I started my career. And I walked in and there was this big commercial kitchen and just such a vibrant group of individuals, 365 days a year, 24-7, they have a food pantry. If you want to come and get your clothes laundered or if you need some fresh clothes, let's say for an interview or some interview prep, they help with all that.

You can stay there for weeks. And my heart was so full. I got home and my wife was like, wow, you are in a great mood. And I think for me it was something what you're speaking about. It really felt like in some ways a calling, a very spiritual place for my. I went back the next day, I just sat and had a cup of coffee and chatted with some people and I'm hoping to follow in the footsteps of your grandma and start going over maybe once a month, maybe a couple times a months to just help cooking because that's the way that I really feel called and feels very meaningful to me.

I think part of my friendship and relationship with you is I pay more attention to those things. So I don't have the same religious background that you do, but you've really, you and your family really influenced me to kind of open up to the spirit a little bit more and pay attention those. Really important part ourself that doesn't get talked about enough in mental health, the notion of our spiritual health. How do we enhance it? How we care for it. Greg, it ties right into building community. You know, so often people have communities through their community faith or through the community at work.

Are you talking to yourself about community and how it's important for us? We are in a loneliness epidemic. Along with some of the great tips you've given like volunteering, are there other ways that you see people doing a great job building a community for themselves? Yeah, I mean, especially in this toxic... It's kind of like we're kind re-living in many ways the political climate that he endured four years ago, which, I mean, in many ways, there's a lot we learned from the last time around. But I think, Drew, you've heard me say this before, we have to talk to each other.

We have be curious about each others. backgrounds and beliefs before we are so quick to judge. And I think that there's a huge opportunity here with all of the differences that we think we have to learn about the people Uh, around us, you know, my relationship with, uh, with my dad and, he has his political views. He is met a gentleman, at his church who has totally, opposite political view and he does, um, and they went out and had breakfast together. Right. And, when he was sharing something like that, I just thought that was, that beautiful.

Building Community and Reducing Loneliness 31:00

I mean, they're both decent people who love their country, who disagree, and they are able to sit down and have a meal together, right? And so I think we need more of that and I that that can go a long way when it comes to allowing us to feel more connected with each other and really improving that loneliness epidemic too. I means, even if it's something as simple as, you know, if you're walking in your neighborhood And there's a neighbor who's out that you haven't talked to before introducing yourself and, and just having a conversation.

I mean, things like that don't happen nearly as much as they should. Yep. It's a great, it's great point. I noticed I recently walking on the way to work, keep walking by the same, same guy. And I said, I hadn't said hi to him and I stopped it. Hey, Hey I'm Drew Ramsey. Work down the street, walk by all the time. So I really wanted to say hi and introduce myself. When we had, you know, nice little moment. Now when I walked by, we wave and we smile. You know it, those little pieces, sometimes we make community is this big, Big thing, and it is, but putting together those little pieces, taking someone to breakfast, calling a friend or a colleague, sitting down with somebody you disagree with, such a great feeling when you can go from disagreement and consternation to connection.

That really is a place I think a lot of people feel the spirit. And so building community is huge part of our mental health and helping us with anxiety and depression. It really doesn't get emphasized enough that as important sometimes as going to therapy or consulting with mental-health professional is volunteering and investing in your community and saying hi to people and pushing yourself a little bit. Tough to do, we're not feeling well, but really, really essential. Greg, I want to shift just a little bit and end with the notion of male mental health because, you know, everyone watching is either a man or has some men in their life.

And we know that male, mental-health is a big problem. We're talking more about it. You and I have been producing a interview series about male-mental health called Friday Sessions in Men's Health Magazine on their Instagram. really every week now for years talking to prominent women about male mental health. It's been a wonderful and ongoing conversation. What can we do about female mental to better improve it right now? Well, I mean, and you know this, but just for your audience, again, when it comes to depression, for example, most statistics show that women are diagnosed with depression about twice as often as men are.

Now, many people may interpret that to think that women are at higher risk for developing depression. Well, they're actually not, right? Because we know that the suicide rate among men is about three to four times that of women, and part of the reason why, in my view, is because men, are not talking about it. They're not being diagnosed, you're getting treatment. And I think part you and I have been doing over the past several years with men's health and other platforms is encouraging men to have these conversations, number one, and then just showing them what conversations about mental health between two men looks like.

And I think we've modeled a lot of that. So I that something that we can all do right now is, again, ask people how they're doing and give, particularly men, ask them how their doing, the men in our lives, and then give them the time and the space to actually respond, right? I mean, we need to be able to sit down and actively listen, I think, rather than just, you know, kind of dismissing these conversations or making them quick. Because you'd be surprised, profound, beautiful stories are behind some of these guys if we actually give them the time and space to talk.

I think we could do a much better job of doing that. Yeah, it's a great point. I hate it when there's this like, oh, yeah, men don't have feelings or complex emotional lives. It's just not true. Greg and I sit with men and women all day, pretty much every day. And men in women, their inner worlds have a lot of similarities, anxieties, worries about appearance, worry about self-esteem and potency and existential angst and depression and anxiety. And as Greg said, there's so many beautiful stories.

I think one of the mistakes sometimes we make when we're dealing with men in mental health, just kind of like we made with mental when listening,

Male Mental Health and the Power of Listening 36:00

is that we feel we need to do something. Now that we hear a story from a man, they're finally opening up about their feelings and we need to, you know, give them a great piece of advice or tell them what to do. I really encourage everyone when you, yeah, just to listen and then to be grateful for the share. Hey, I'd really appreciate you sharing all this with me. That sometimes is enough, the sharing, that openness, and knowing that someone else can relate and someone cares and acknowledging maybe the ways that something is really challenging or tough.

You don't need to be a therapist or really emotionally savvy to simply listen. It's something I see a lot of men doing over sports or hunting or fishing, you know, male activities in a way that is not kind of considered mental health care. Yesterday, I went and got a haircut, Drew, and my barber knows that I'm a psychiatrist. My barber said something interesting to me. People say men don't have emotions. They don' have feelings. Look at a guy when his favorite sports team loses. Look at all the emotion there.

Look an athlete when they miss the game-winning shot. I mean, everyone's crying. Men have emotions, but there's certain environments where it's more acceptable for men to actually show the emotions that they have. The other thing that I find is interesting, I'm a psychiatrist, so if I am at a backyard barbecue, for example, and there are people there who know that I'm a psychiatrist. It's like every guy at the barbecue is going to find me at some point during that event and start opening up about something because they know this is my field.

They know I am a therapist and it's okay for them to talk. My job gives them permission to open up. So I think that again, most people are not seeing psychiatrists or therapists in their everyday lives, but I thing all of us have a role to play, right? And we sort of have to give guys permission to talk, let them know it's okay. And I the way that we do that is being engaged by asking follow-up questions, by really showing them that, we care about what they have the say. But I a little bit can go a long way.

I love that, Greg. And I look at that notion that men, you can see how their emotionality in the right context. Why do men like sports? Well, I think you're suggesting it's because they can be so aggressive and channel that kind of male aggression into something. Then also when it doesn't work out, they could be sad, upset. They can so emotionally invested. Because of the framework of sports, the rules, role, position you play, Somehow it's okay. And seeing ways that you can help create those frameworks where more male emotion can exist between you and the men in your life.

I think that's great. If you're the kind of person who is into mental health, which a lot of people listening are, you probably know that exact story that Greg's telling. You don't have to be a therapist or a psychiatrist to kind identify yourself a little bit in in the community as somebody who cares about feelings and emotions and mental and I'm sure your backyard barbecue encounter is these men really appreciate it and come back because they have a nice experience sharing with you. And I think one thing everyone can do, so we'll take away, if you ask someone how they're doing, right, and they say I am fine, follow up with this question, how are you really doing?

Right? I've noticed that just that follow-up question can totally change someone's response. Yeah, yeah. My dad would phrase it, so how's the inner man? You're right. I'm good. It's like, all right, well, how is the inter man. You know, it's, like I understand you're holding it together just like you supposed to, man, but how you doing on the inside and hearing a little more about that. Greg Scott Brown, psychiatrist, yogi, good friend, person who's out there in the media, really making sure that we think about mental health, male mental, health really encouraging us and the self-healing mind to look at these essential five pillars.

Think about them in your own life right now, everyone. And, you know, not that it's some Herculean task, some big lifts, a mountain to climb, but it simply a few minutes dedicated to something like connection or a little bit of dancing, maybe throwing your favorite song and, let it out right now or going into Savasana. Just, you know, right now, wherever you are, put everything down, get on the floor, take a deep breath, let some of Greg Scott Brown's wisdom just wash over you and see the power of your mind, see your ability to care for yourself and get through the various mental health challenges that so many of us struggle with.

It's such a treat to be with you. I love being on this mental health journey with Greg. You're such great friend and good brother in mental to me. And I'm so glad to get to share with everybody in the anxiety and depression solutions to let them hear your voice and hear wisdom. Everybody, thanks so much for your time. Again, we've got another great episode coming up right after this. So please stay tuned and we'll see you soon. Greg, Thanks so. Thank you, Drew. Always good to Thank you for tuning in to Doctor Talks.

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