Full Transcript 0:00 Sun Tzu in The Outer War says, if you don't know yourself and you dont know your enemy, you'll lose 100% of your battles. 0:06 If you know you're enemy you will win 50% if your battle. 0:16 You didn't build your clinic to feel like an employee in your own business. 0:19 I'm Matthew Kalogli and on Out of the System, hosted by Doctor Talks, we challenge the broken rules holding healthcare entrepreneurs back. 0:26 Hear from clinic owners, rebels and builders who are creating bold, profitable patient center practices and doing it their way. 0:33 So I am sitting across from the esteemed, and you are technically a doctor, aren't you? 0:39 Technically, I'm a doctor, not a physician. 0:42 Yeah. 0:42 Colin Rigney, who is founder, CEO. 0:45 What's your official title these days? 0:47 Like head guru, chief, big shot. 0:51 Like, what do you call yourself? 0:52 Yeah, co-founder and CEO of the Advanced Musculoskeletal Ultrasound Center. 0:56 Okay. 0:56 So that's otherwise known as AMSKU, right? 0:59 What is the website so that people can- AMsku.com. 1:04 You've been on the podcast before Collins a long time friend of the show And he's helping lead doctors out of system Tell them a little bit more about 1:12 like what you do for for those that don't know and then we're gonna dive into some really cool shit Yeah, yeah, so I think what we do what describes best 1:21 of what? 1:21 We do is we train people to be diagnostic authorities with musculoskeletal ultrasound. 1:27 Okay, and in order to in order to have a healthy, vibrant, regenerative medicine practice, diagnostic ultrasound is the gateway to all of that. 1:40 And it goes more, it's more than just the technical skills. 1:45 Yes. 1:46 Technical skills are important. 1:47 You need to know your positions. 1:49 Um, protocols, pattern recognition, those things, but the art of Taking what you see on the screen, diluting it down into language that the person in front 2:03 of you, the patient can understand and translate that into. 2:08 a reason why they're feeling the way they are about something. 2:13 If that's, if, yeah. 2:15 What, what, was there, where's their pain coming from? 2:17 Yeah. 2:17 Right. 2:18 Like how I popped my knee the other day at yoga. 2:20 Yeah, just fucking at Yoga. 2:24 Feel my inside. 2:25 I'm like, fuck. 2:26 Anyway, go ahead. 2:29 So there's an art to this. 2:31 And, and so the, the technical piece and the art side of, taking what you see in translating into into something that somebody without a medical background 2:41 can understand. 2:41 Yeah. 2:42 You know, and that's that really describes what we do best in a nutshell. 2:47 And I think it's I don't definitely want to read and we're not going to rehash like all the old stuff. 2:54 But what I this is this for me having you on on a regular basis is really important because I Think you know, I'm sitting I've sitting at the cigar lounge 3:04 last night. 3:04 Okay, it was the time I was recording This is right around opening night of of the NBA. 3:10 So Christine's out of town. 3:12 I get done working out. 3:13 Yes I go went to the Cigar Lounge after I worked out don't don''t judge Okay. 3:17 Yeah, give me and I gave up the crystal meth. 3:19 so deal with it And so, I'm sitting there and the guy sitting next to me, a lawyer, starts asking me a million questions. 3:27 He's like, oh, you're the guys I am supposed to talk to. 3:29 I bought this laser on Amazon. 3:31 Is it helping my Achilles? 3:32 I was like no, it's not. 3:34 It's helping a little bit, isn't it? 3:36 No, not even close, right? 3:38 So anyway, we're talking about this. 3:40 And I thought of you and I referenced you because he's, well, what do these guys in the NBA do? 3:45 What are they doing? 3:46 And, and said, Well, they get injured. 3:50 during the game, they're going back in the locker room and the team trainer's got an ultrasound, right? 3:57 Yeah, in many cases, yes. 4:00 Right? 4:00 And you're doing some training, you've opened up some doors. 4:03 I know it's not a ton, but when you are doing that, what are you doing with the teams? 4:08 How are training them and what's the benefit and advantage? 4:11 So we worked with a number of NBA teams and their summer meetings for the NHL. 4:21 Every team in the, be surprised that every professional team has his own ecosystem in way of, um, communicating between the doctor or the trainers and 4:34 their own preferred things. 4:35 Okay, great. 4:37 But not everybody is on board as you would think with using ultrasound at the point of care. 4:43 And a lot of that has to do with the way the hierarchy is structured. 4:46 If the doctors not comfortable with it, then he or she is not as comfortable letting the trainer's and the PT's do it either. 4:53 So it's all driven by like medical director. 4:57 Yes. 4:58 But here's the difference. 4:59 So the teams we've worked with are, they're generally give more flexibility to the PTs and the trainers. 5:09 For instance, I'm not going to name the organization, but one particular organization in the MBA, the physical therapists actually drive the decision-making. 5:17 And their owner is all in with getting the highest end equipment and ultrasound and they're invested in their training and, 5:26 and allowing them to use it as a tool to not just evaluate injuries, but monitor. 5:32 Like when you guys come in, um, who maybe haven't had a pattern of things. 5:36 And like, let's say a low mellow ball who has constantly has an issue with his ankles being spring. 5:41 Mm-hmm. 5:42 Yep. 5:42 Exactly. 5:43 Yup. 5:44 Are they using it like in the diagnostic? 5:46 Are the using as part of like the the physical determine whether or not that they should bring the clay around whether this is due to get their own data? 5:52 Yeah, it can be. 5:54 Yes. 5:54 In some cases. 5:55 Yeah. 5:55 They'll use that as one piece of that that physical. 5:59 Um, and the, on the NHL side, which has been a lot more fun for us to be honest, because we're, we are instructing pretty much teams from all over the 6:13 league who are incorporating this into their training rooms. 6:17 And the nhl is its own animal, um, in terms of, Um. 6:23 their medical staff makeup and the tools that they have. 6:28 The team ecosystem is different. 6:29 It's so different, I bet they're unbelievably different So different actually, so I would say the NHL as a whole, the team ecosystems are more of the same 6:41 than basketball. 6:42 Yeah, yeah, well, because there's more money at stake in the NBA. 6:46 Exactly. 6:47 So they are all looking for that competitive edge and that margin of error There's, if a $10 million mistake in an NBA team would cripple an NHL team because 6:59 of valuations, because NHG valuators haven't skyrocketed the way every other team has. 7:03 Exactly. 7:04 Players in the NHl are different animals too. 7:07 How are they different? 7:09 I mean, though they'll play through anything. 7:11 They'll plan fractures, they play on torn tendons, with a broken jaw, you name it. 7:18 So the job of those PTs and trainers is to essentially not let the athlete be a danger to themselves. 7:30 And so ultrasound has been super fun to work in with them. 7:34 They're using it all the time. 7:37 All the times. 7:37 That's really fascinating. 7:38 So the players are tougher, safe to say, in the NHL. 7:42 Yeah. 7:43 Okay. 7:45 Yet they're still using the ultrasound more. 7:48 It seems kind of weird to me. 7:49 I would think it would be opposite, that they would want to almost have a blind eye to what the injuries are. 7:56 They want to know how to manage it. 7:58 They wanna know How to Manage it, okay? 8:00 So if the injury is severe, it depends on whatever severity stage it's at, but they wanna have some data so they, as a staff, 8:10 they can communicate with each other about how To manage this thing. 8:13 I mean, the athlete's gonna play, right? 8:15 And so do we need to throw all the guns at it? 8:18 What do We need To do for this? 8:19 That's the reason why. 8:20 You know, the NBA is, is a bit different in there. 8:26 You have tough guys in the MBA too, who play through like, but then notoriously the maintenance days, you know that this, 8:32 that's a rampant thing in The NBA that you don't really see in, in just any other sport. 8:37 Yeah. 8:38 That you do not see that. 8:40 you see it in baseball with pitchers, pitch counts and like breast and all of that in innings and how many inings you're going to throw. 8:46 I've never heard that conversation at all happen in NHL. 8:49 No, not at all. 8:51 No. 8:51 So the, the fun thing about teaching doctors, physical therapists, athletic trainers in these organizations is ultrasound at the point of care allows you to. 9:05 It allows you to know what the next step is that much faster. 9:08 You know, in many cases it requires, I mean, they're going to get MRI anyways in a lot of cases just because they can. 9:13 But the ultrasound, their finding is a little more sensitive and they could trust it more for certain soft tissue injuries more so than an MRI. 9:22 So your lower grade hamstring injuries, chronic tendinopathies in the Achilles, the plantar fascia. 9:28 It's all the same pattern of injuries in these sports. 9:31 So in hockey, it's the groin, hip, and then MBA, we're talking gastroc, hamstring, Achille's, patellar tendon. 9:41 Same patterns of injuries, we get the same questions, same requests for like, what's the protocol for this, right? 9:51 And other things, not as much, like in the civilian world. 10:00 everything comes down to, doesn't matter where you're working, we're comfortable working with anybody from just about any walk when it comes to teaching this. 10:10 You need to first, I want to know what you need. 10:13 What do you do? 10:13 Where are your gaps? 10:16 And I'm going to spend some time with that before we get into how we can help you at all. 10:21 Because without that, We want to be a value to what you need, right? 10:30 By the way, NHL players tougher than NBA players? 10:33 You've had a bar fight. 10:35 I'm taking an NHl player. 10:37 Oh, absolutely. 10:38 Yeah. 10:38 Hockey players, fuck it, they're nuts. 10:41 They're crazy. 10:43 Funny story. 10:44 Bartending in Ferris in college, and the hockey team was really good then, like one of the top five in division two. 10:51 And the Hockeye players come in. 10:54 I'm a small dude. 10:56 I was even smaller in college, five foot seven, 5'8", 135 pounds, right? 11:01 28 inch waist. 11:04 And they're in there, they are drunk as all get out. 11:09 They got their girls with them and all that and they start breaking glasses. 11:14 This is a local bar, it's called Schubergs, eight tables, 8 booths. 11:18 It's been there since it was a prohibition speak easy. 11:22 And I go up to the guy, he's like six foot four. 11:25 He's fucking like this, like just jacked. 11:28 And they're on my table and I'll go, guys, you can't do that here at Schubert's. 11:36 And okay, okay. 11:37 Come back, you're breaking glasses again. 11:39 Seriously, if you guys do this again, I'm gonna ask you to leave. 11:42 And the guy stands up and he stands and I am about here on his chest and goes, what are you gonna do about it little man? 11:50 And I look up at him and said, i'm not gonna a goddamn thing because as soon as you swing, im gonna fucking run under the table. 11:55 I said but those three guys over there behind the bar are gonna kick the living fucking shit out of you. 11:59 Yeah. 12:00 and He goes to swing at me. 12:03 And those three guys came flying and they had those hockey players by like the belt loops and threw them out It was just the funniest thing in the world. 12:12 Yeah, so hockey. 12:13 Players are tougher Yeah They never happened with the basketball team at all at fairs. 12:16 So yeah. 12:18 No, it's it different ecosystem. 12:20 It's a totally different different. 12:22 They played without helmets back then. 12:24 All right, let's say I'm a At what point, so who are your favorite clients to work with? 12:35 The ones that are coming, like, you know, they're just getting started. 12:39 They don't know anything about this. 12:40 I never really used ultrasound. 12:43 Who are you favorite type of doctors, providers that you like to My favorites are orthopedic surgeons, interventional pain in primary care sports. 12:53 Why? 12:54 Because they all have a process, they're all very good at what they do. 12:59 They're very process oriented for what their skills have gotten them to, to this point. 13:06 And so it's all really relatable what the next steps are for, what we're going to teach them. 13:11 So I have a way to bring it back to what they know. 13:14 So like, for instance, an orthopedic surgeon, especially somebody who does arthroscopies. 13:21 When they put somebody to sleep and they're going to do a shoulder scope and then they are going repair a rotator cuff or whatever, 13:29 before they do anything, they go with the camera and do the diagnostic checkpoint of the biceps, the subscapularis, and the infraspinatus, 13:36 supraspinatus and labrum. 13:38 Two of my favorites, infra-spinatos and supraspanatus. 13:45 So, my point is they're doing a checklist of anatomy and doing, a diagnostic of it before they do anything else. 13:53 And I say, that's exactly what you're going to do with the ultrasound. 13:57 So Don Buford has his 13 point shoulder exam, which is, we've been teaching that for a long, long time. 14:04 Before I met Don, our exam was very similar to Don's. 14:10 the, that process that you could just take what they already know and then translate something, something new, like, you know, 14:17 um, interventional pain, they're all the ones who we work with, uh, many who work, with they dabble with ultrasound. 14:25 Not process oriented. 14:26 They can't, they never really use it to diagnose, but. 14:28 I mean, not they're not using ultrasound a lot. 14:31 Occasionally. 14:32 So like nerve interventional pain does, and they are very, very good with most of them with nerve blocks and that's comfortable using Ultrasound in that regard. 14:40 But diagnostically in a process-oriented way, it's a black hole form. 14:47 What they do know quite well is, you know, how do you read their MRIs and, and fluoroscopies for interventions. 14:54 And so again, bringing the ultrasound piece back to something that they know and look, you already know this, we're just going to teach you on a different 15:03 modality now. 15:04 Are you ready to strip away everything? 15:05 And we start with the bare bones and just go through the process, right? 15:09 So everything comes back just stripping away, striping away with, the overwhelming part that, that people just have this in their head, 15:16 like this This thing, this new thing they got to learn that everybody else is doing, but they can't seem to grasp. 15:22 They'd taken three or four weekend courses and they've dabbled and there are okay. 15:25 In some areas, they're black holes and others. 15:27 And they just, for whatever reason, haven't, um, Haven't picked it all the way up yet. 15:33 Right. 15:35 So those are my people I love to work with because. 15:38 It's much like, you know, much, like you and you take people from, from going from an insurance world to a cash pay world, 15:47 right? 15:48 There's a process and protocol. 15:49 Absolutely. 15:50 Always the process. 15:50 Yeah. 15:51 And so just, are you ready to, um, You know, when, Daniel goes to Miyagi and wax on wax off and all these, you know strips away everything and just does like, 16:02 we're just starting here. 16:03 Like that's literally what we do. 16:05 Um, I want to know. 16:06 I care less about how exquisite and textbook perfect your images are more so than I. 16:14 Can you. 16:15 mentally walk me through. 16:17 If I, if I were to verbally task you with telling me the protocol for the lateral elbow, what are our structures? 16:23 Right. 16:23 And there's three or four, you know, I want you to mentally know the structures you want to look at before you even do it. 16:30 Right? 16:30 You know? 16:31 And then we'll get into the process of the technical part of acquiring the images and that sort of thing. 16:36 But, um, but. 16:40 I come to those three archetypes of clients we work most with because the transfer of skill is quite high. 16:50 Especially again, with the orthopedic surgeon, not only I talked about their diagnostic process with a scope, but also the transport of motor skills of 17:00 like looking at a screen, they're working their equipment, right? 17:04 And they are doing this. 17:05 So hand eye skills with using the probe and the ultrasound and then the screen navigating. 17:12 They're probably the easiest. 17:17 They picked it up the quickest. 17:20 If they're willing to strip away the anxiety of this, whatever this new hill I gotta climb is, and just start with the process. 17:29 It's quite rewarding to watch them get the light bulb moment. 17:35 Isn't it great when they get to lightbulb moment? 17:36 I love it. 17:40 Invariably, when somebody comes to work with us, People are always like, do you have a program that's less than a year? 17:45 And I'm like no, I have my book, podcasts, have the YouTube videos. 17:49 But the reason why is we spent a lot of time deprogramming. 17:53 Like it even took you guys a little while to like grasp, wait a minute. 17:59 I can charge. 18:02 Two and a half or three X what I was charging before. 18:04 Like that's not going to completely upset the business. 18:07 So, or, you know, just restructure the way I sell or my process or whatever it is or how we get customers or. 18:14 But man, when that light bulb goes on, like it just happened with Janet Eng. 18:19 Is she working with you? 18:20 Is Janet Eng working? 18:21 She's a student of ours. 18:22 Yeah. 18:24 The light bulb went on with it. 18:25 She came here and did a day with us, probably about two months ago. 18:29 And which is, I tell everybody, you want to get the fastest impact come spend a take. 18:36 Like, it's the best thing that we do. 18:39 So, and she's like, oh my God, got it, now I understand. 18:43 It was about six months in. 18:46 Yeah. 18:46 Yeah, and you see it too, right? 18:48 Is that kind of, what's your kind your marker where you say it where the light bulb, What's the average time that it gets people for the Light bulb to 18:53 go on? 18:55 Four to six months. 18:57 Average. 18:58 Is there like a common phrase that you hear? 19:01 Yeah there is. 19:03 I get mad I thought you were crazy. 19:06 But everybody else around you was saying, like all the other clients were saying just do what he tells you. 19:10 The common phrases, I made it harder than it had to be. 19:15 Why do you think people do that? 19:16 Why you do think that people make it harder than it has to be? 19:18 Well, I mean, look at yourself. 19:20 Look at, you know, we'll, yeah. 19:22 What the fuck are you talking about? 19:25 I got faked on November 22nd, 2024. I've been good ever since. 19:27 Yeah, perfect man status. 19:28 Perfect process all day long. 19:29 So why do, so why you, why, do people think it's harder that it had to? 19:32 Everybody has be willing to look themselves and strip away. 19:44 They have to strip away. 19:45 That sounds really painful. 19:47 Um, some people it is more painful than others. 19:51 Able gazing here. 19:52 Like, are we going to like sit on the campfire and like sing from beyond? 19:56 No, no. 19:56 Lent out of it. 19:58 No. 19:58 In some cases it's been, um, a fundamental lack of knowledge. 20:04 Uh, A weekend course that confused them or some terminologies that they've picked up that were inaccurate. 20:14 Like it could be a cluster of things, but ultimately like, you know, for, For us to, to take somebody from where they are and to where They want to be, 20:24 it does require some unlearning and requires a lot of unlearn. 20:28 Yeah, a Lot of unlearning. 20:30 It's unwrapping the beliefs. 20:33 I think it's worse than unleaning. 20:37 I've never thought about the phrase. 20:39 I don't like believe abandonment, but I would say it's shedding. 20:45 You have to be willing to shed an old exoskeleton that is keeping you contained. 20:53 It keeps you safe. 20:55 Safety and comfort is a... 20:58 I won't say, it is bad thing, I find create a lot of constraints. 21:06 There is a crisis in being comfortable and safe. 21:09 And some people's safety and comfort is. 21:12 A stressful state for me. 21:13 It is for you. 21:14 They used to be, I mean, what I, from the standpoint of I if I'm feeling my inherent way is More, if I'm feeling comfortable, 21:26 it's more of a worry for me than I am if. 21:28 I like feeling safe, right? 21:30 Like that's. 21:31 Yeah. 21:31 Cause that when my creative juices fly. 21:33 Right. 21:34 But when I feel comfortable that is when. 21:39 Ooh, okay, something ain't right. 21:40 I'm not pushing myself. 21:42 Got it, got it. 21:42 You got the drive, yeah. 21:45 It's doing the uncomfortable thing. 21:47 The drive. 21:47 Right? 21:48 Yeah. 21:49 Yeah, like I just got my blood panel back from Will about a month and a half ago. 21:55 And he basically, you know, Will, will's about as demonstrative as like a piece of white paper. 22:00 He's just the same every day. 22:02 If you're listening, well, it's a compliment. 22:04 Will's like, Yeah you are not doing a good job. 22:08 Are you in the gym? 22:11 I'm like, well, I am doing yoga like once a week and I go for a hike. 22:14 He goes, that's not enough. 22:18 So what are you going to do? 22:20 So I had to make myself uncomfortable. 22:23 I've worked out my whole life since I was 30. Workouts got stale. 22:35 They became comfortable. 22:36 That became a routine. 22:37 It became the sameness. 22:39 Right. 22:40 And I was like, Oh, okay. 22:42 Well, I got it. 22:43 I gotta push this. 22:44 Like maybe it's hot yoga twice a week, which is a fucking ball buster. 22:49 By the way, have you ever done hot? 22:50 I used to do big, big room yoga was the 90 minute. 22:55 I did it one time. 22:56 I loved it. 22:57 Oh, I got to find space to do this. 22:59 That made me so uncomfortable. 23:01 It was so freaking hard. 23:06 But I think that's the thing is that I'll be 59 in a couple of weeks. 23:13 My friends are all about comfort right now. 23:15 Mm-hmm. 23:18 So how do you get, when you have a client that comes in, and they're there, but they are not fully there. 23:28 Do you know what I'm talking about? 23:29 Like they've paid you the money, they know they need to learn to do this thing, and their trying to mail it in. 23:35 How do you get them to connect at a deeper level? 23:40 Yeah. 23:40 Get them push themselves. 23:41 Yeah, yeah. 23:42 So I take the probe away and we have a conversation. 23:46 Usually, if I am sensing that, this doesn't happen, it really doesn' happen very often. 23:51 Okay. 23:52 But when it does, I just asked what's going on and is there something, was there's something else that's, um, you're thinking about that. 24:03 That's not allowing you to be present here fully. 24:06 Um, in some cases that yeah. 24:11 When that does happen, I'll take the ultrasound away and we'll talk about something else for a while and whatever it is. 24:20 In some cases, it's a fear of things not working out. 24:27 It's nothing about the ultrasound, but this. 24:29 They have an investment in a new practice, an adult, in an, adult child issue or a marriage issue. 24:36 And these, these things that, you know, we're all human we have, were managing. 24:41 and, and so oftentimes it's that and I'll, I'm just take it away. 24:45 We'll talk about something else. 24:47 I want to, just, We can always come back to this. 24:50 Like, You know we'll punt the visit and then like credit you and we will do this enough time. 24:58 You know, there's twice I can recall that we had to do that. 25:04 And so that's my approach usually. 25:08 I mean, it's been well received. 25:10 It works. 25:12 Because it shows that there is more dimensions to what we do than just train ultrasound. 25:17 There's a journey to this. 25:18 Yeah, It's not just like, here's the joint, let's put some... 25:21 No, you're... 25:23 There is a new identity you have to step into. 25:25 Ooh, tell me about that! 25:26 So Tammy Penhollow, and I think it's okay. 25:30 I could talk about her. 25:32 She's been on the show. 25:33 Yeah. 25:34 Tammy is phenomenal. 25:37 And so she is somebody who, you know, when she was going to commit, because I've known her a long time. 25:44 Then prior to coming into our program, we had a discussion about what her goals were, what she's looking to do and her practice set up and everything like that. 25:56 And, you know, she's proficient in all things, interventional pain, but the diagnostic piece with ultrasound and having to send people out for MRIs, 26:05 losing some trust with that and getting the MRI back and not fully like, ah, I'm not buying this in terms of, the pain generator and be really nice if 26:14 I had ultrasound. 26:16 And so the identity side of. 26:19 Being able to do the ultrasound and assess it. 26:24 So, as I described, take what you're seeing, dilute it down, speak the language back to the patient in terms they understand. 26:31 That's it, that's an identity shift. 26:33 Right. 26:33 You're, you become a... 26:34 Because you've been trained, like you send this out, You wait for your results. 26:38 you wait, for what the imaging tells you and the, they're the Imaging Specialist and they tell you what they see. 26:44 Yes. 26:44 And you, become, a you you became a diagnostician now. 26:49 Which could feel beneath you. 26:52 Could feel underneath you? 26:53 How do you mean? 26:54 Well, if I'm an orthopedic surgeon, let's just, I know Tammy's not, but let say you're an Orthopedics surgeon. 27:01 I always say, you know, they made it off Survivor Island. 27:04 They're part of the alpha of that doctor group, right? 27:10 And so they're just used to telling people what to do and people saying, okay, like their job is to, their performance is surgery, 27:19 what do they say? 27:19 Bone break, bone fix, arg. 27:26 Now you're doing something that you used to outsource, that use to pay somebody else to do. 27:34 And the patient has in their mind that the MRI is the gold standard. 27:39 Oh, I'm going to get an MRI, which they hate. 27:42 Most of them hate because most people are claustrophobic. 27:44 Yeah. 27:45 I mean, not most. 27:45 You got to take time on it and go schedule it. 27:47 They take an hour. 27:48 Right. 27:48 Give me the open thing. 27:54 So there is a built-in inherent, as the orthopedic surgeon, I'm the director. 28:03 I am telling people what to do, where to go, when to it, right? 28:09 And that time arc creates a treatment lag which actually puts you in a place of power because it's a scarcity thing and people want what they can't have. 28:22 So I've built my 20 year career, my 12 years in medical school residency and fellowship or whatever. 28:28 I come out, I now have 20 years of surgery. 28:31 i'm used to this traditional arc, waiting for my MRI results. 28:36 And now you're telling me I can get most of my information via me holding an ultrasound tool. 28:47 In a complete, now am I being, I would think that there are some doctors that would be like, wait a second, is this, does this make sense? 28:55 There are, and there's a subtype of doctors who like all semi-PA to go get trained. 29:01 Exactly. 29:02 Why is it that the doctor should get Because they're the, in my opinion, they think they are the best critical thinkers in the building and they should 29:16 be the ones to. 29:20 know the process, and if they're going to deliver something that's ultrasound guided via an injection, being able to diagnose it is upstream to all of that, 29:31 in my opinion. 29:33 And yeah, you can train somebody to point and shoot and just do anatomic site and do an infection, ultrasound-guided. 29:39 It takes a couple of weekends to learn that. 29:41 That's not, that not difficult, but in order to have, have control over the process and no anatomy like Google maps knows your, 29:54 you know, knows you're city. 29:55 That's what being a diagnostician is. 29:58 And that's an identity shift from. 30:01 Where you are to where you want to be in the ones who are committed to, to creating a strong orthobiologic practice or a stronger orthopedic practice, 30:10 strong sports medicine practice. 30:11 Whatever, whatever they're in ultrasound is, is a key piece, man. 30:16 And many of the physicians we work with have, once they get it, they they are like, I'm ordering like 50% fewer MRIs than I ever have. 30:25 Well, okay, so there's a bunch of things going into that, right? 30:28 So what it's also happened, and you and I talk about this all the time, in the genesis of where we are today in medicine in 2026 in America, 30:38 is one, it has become incredibly siloed. 30:40 Yes. 30:40 When you create, if you want to, If you were to take over a country, Okay, there's an actual book, it's called Handbook for Dictators or Handbooks for 30:50 Despots or something like that. 30:52 I read it probably five years ago. 30:54 It's really funny. 30:55 But it is basically a manual of like, okay, so let's say you and I went over and took over Costa Rica, or Rhode Island, right? 31:02 So what you do is you make sure that different groups can't communicate with each other. 31:11 Okay? 31:13 What happened in ancient Babylon is that, forget the king, what he did was he said, oh, when I'm going to conquer all these people, 31:24 I don't want to keep them in their tribes. 31:25 I am going disperse them. 31:26 So he put some people from this tribe in a city along with these other people thinking they would fight with each other. 31:32 But what happened is they're like, Oh, you're really good at making swords. 31:35 Let me show you how to make, or you are going teach me how make bows. 31:38 And what happens is it caused the empire to crumble. 31:40 Okay. 31:42 So if I keep people in silos and they can't communicate and I create this very clear boundaries of who's responsible for what, 31:52 I can be in control. 31:53 Okay. 31:53 So, if you think about what's happened in the modern medical society, modern, medical plantation is we've created a silo. 32:00 The orthopedic surgeon, no, you have to, we create mentality that it has to be an MRI. 32:06 I mean, I talked to some of my doctors and they're like, some, Donnie Buford's the exception, but they are like the only thing I really need the MRI for 32:15 is maybe a back or like a really like just a double check, like shoulder, right? 32:20 Yeah. 32:22 For a lot of the things, what percentage of injuries really do you think that they can, are you seeing that your clients can examine and diagnose with ultrasound? 32:30 Part of being really good at ultrasound is knowing what it's not good for. 32:33 Okay, what is a knockout? 32:35 Specific injuries like a slap tear, a superior labral tear in the shoulder, maybe a complex laboral injury in hip, spine, 32:46 yes, ultrasound is not a diagnostic tool for the spine. 32:52 Um, ACL in the knee, maybe a deep meniscus tear in knee. 32:56 Um. 32:57 Those are, those are a few examples of that's really, it's a short list of, of what ultrasound is not good for. 33:03 And these are extreme injuries or even chronic injuries. 33:07 You know, things that, um, this is going to require, you know. 33:10 Yeah. 33:11 An ultrasound, like an often case we're getting the X-ray, the ultrasound and the MRI. 33:16 We call it the Holy Trinity. 33:19 Yeah, yeah. 33:21 We can't explain it, but it's there. 33:23 Right, right, and then if you're looking for bone marrow lesions and chronic knee osteoarthritis, you need an MRI for that. 33:34 So that's kind of the short list of things that the physicians we work with are primarily using MRIs for. 33:42 Once they realize that, oh my gosh, like the extra, so what's out of a joint, what was outside of the joint? 33:50 Because the bone hides the sound waves that you can't see. 33:53 That's why those structures, you just can see them with ultrasound. 33:57 It can everything else though, right? 33:58 And once they realized that It's just a simple two or three step process to tweak the probe here, navigate here. 34:07 Boom, boom. 34:08 You know the anatomy already. 34:09 Let's break it down with what it looks like under ultrasound and realize that you can follow the path of all these things. 34:18 Just like I said, just like how we followed your maps to get to the studio is what you can do with ultrasound. 34:26 And that's the, that the unlock. 34:30 That's they unlock and they see like, oh my gosh, like I made this way harder than it had to be. 34:35 But what has to happen is we strip all that away by eliminating big courses. 34:40 These are small groups. 34:43 There's nowhere to hide. 34:44 We're going to quiz you, we're gonna keep you accountable. 34:46 There's hands on. 34:48 Of course, hands-on. 34:49 But what happens is in the training, the traditional training and I teach a weekend course. 34:55 They're great foundationals or tuneups for people who maybe are already pretty good. 35:00 Um, but if it, if you're somebody who is in the beginning stage or haven't started at all and you go to a weekend course, 35:07 what it's going to do is it is going expose how much I don't know. 35:10 And it'll leave you feeling in a much bigger gap in many cases, or, and it could be a place to jumpstart you as like, okay, 35:17 What's the next step from here? 35:18 I realized I'm not going learn this. 35:20 I'll not gonna learn. 35:20 This by taking a bunch of weekend courses. 35:23 Um because it what happens in those big environments is. 35:28 people can hide it's big groups. 35:30 You know, um, I know faculty to, to student ratio is better, certain courses than others. 35:36 Don's is notoriously one of the best at that, which is great. 35:41 But with us there's, you know. 35:44 silence, there's, we're just working. 35:46 There's a whiteboard. 35:48 We chalk talk everything before you do a session. 35:51 And we were going to say, okay, I'm going write it out, draw it, erase it. 35:56 Then you're going do the same thing. 36:00 So we strip all that away and just make that person, in a good way, be accountable to with the next step in their identity. 36:13 That's what we're building. 36:15 It's more than just ultrasound. 36:18 All the things that are involved with learning this new skill is transformative and it's going to make you a better interventionist. 36:26 Many, many doctors who we work with are already doing ultrasound guided procedures and they know they could be better. 36:31 They know it. 36:35 And better outcomes, better reviews, a better patient is going to be talking about you, which then allows you to see more patients, 36:45 charge more, get paid more for your time if you choose, impact more people. 36:50 And when you do that, the more you charge, and the profitable you are, you can pay your staff. 36:55 You can do things like buy a building. 37:02 to being able to do all of that. 37:05 Right? 37:05 Like, I mean, that's the without profit. 37:10 It's like a psychological safety there. 37:12 Yeah. 37:12 And it's nice to have money in the bank. 37:14 It is. 37:15 Really nice. 37:17 The confidence knowing the needle got where it was supposed to go, and I knew what the fuck I was looking at. 37:24 There's just a relief that comes with knowing it. 37:28 Taking somebody who was like, yeah, I'm just working with the guy last week. 37:31 He's, like I used to inject the piriformis. 37:34 I thought I was there and they got, they came back and I cross my fingers next week. 37:38 He's like, I'm better. 37:39 It was like. 37:39 Oh my gosh. 37:41 Versus now like okay, Daniel, we're going to walk through the steps. 37:45 This is a simple process to find it every single time you're ready. 37:47 Boom. 37:48 So what would you, that's all we did for about 90 minutes. 37:51 And they did it until I made them do it. 37:53 Until, you know, just like Equated to you you were a former golf pro, right? 37:58 Yeah, and so you take people on the range and and I equated it to being a swing coach what we do and how we coach people to Yes, 38:08 okay There there's an art to this. 38:10 There's technical. 38:11 We're gonna blend the two In the process of again stripping away that large environment Nowhere to hide going through the steps and we're going to do it 38:21 again again and again. 38:22 And again until You can trust your hand without even your, without your eyes, like being focused on the screen. 38:30 You know what I mean? 38:31 And, or, just be able to watch the scene and just trust her hand. 38:34 Yep. 38:35 Right. 38:35 Without even like, uh, right. 38:37 That's the point we get people to. 38:39 Yeah. 38:40 Have you ever watched Jordan's speech? 38:43 Yes. 38:43 Putt. 38:45 when he's struggling with his putting he'll do it during a tournament where he there's a drill that you do instead of looking at the ball which means in 38:53 my peripheral vision I'm going to see the pendulum of the putter's head and like while the putting stroke is half a second whatever it is There's a lot 39:03 that my brain can do with it. 39:04 Yeah, he does this drill where he looks at the hole and he putts Yeah rams into the back of the cup every single time. 39:10 Mm-hmm, right? 39:11 Have you you um, are you a football fan? 39:15 Casual casual. 39:16 Okay, so I recommend you watch Nick Saban's special. 39:21 Oh, yeah, I saw him out. 39:22 Yes, okay I haven't seen the episode one and two are probably the best to explain this because it talks about the Genesis and the history of a process. 39:30 Mmm-hm And he said, when he was an outcome-oriented coach, I mean, he almost getting fired at Michigan State, right? 39:37 And, and he discovers the process through Dr. 39:39 Lionel Rosen at the Michigan state, who's a sports psychologist. 39:43 Those didn't exist back then, this guy was like the pioneer. 39:46 And they beat an unranked five and five or four and four Michigan state team beat Ohio state in the in Ohio State. 39:55 Number one team in nation, right? 39:56 And had been number one ranked all year. 39:57 Right. 39:59 And. 40:00 They went from being outcome focused. 40:04 to being process focused. 40:06 Don't pay to play last six to seven seconds in football. 40:11 Focus on dominating that play of winning that. 40:13 And just eliminate the scoreboard. 40:16 As Dr. 40:17 Rosen tells the story, he goes, Coach Saban comes in and says, how can I win this weekend? 40:22 Dr. 40:22 Rosen goes, you can't. 40:24 You're going to get destroyed. 40:26 Your at Ohio State. 40:27 you suck basically. 40:28 Yeah. 40:28 I mean, he talked about it and he goes but what if we just eliminate the scoreboard? 40:32 Okay. 40:34 We become so outcome focused in this country. 40:38 And we become transactional. 40:41 Transactional is very short lived. 40:47 Transactional is sugar. 40:49 It's a sugar high. 40:51 Its a night with a stripper, right? 40:53 Like a whatever, it's rather a crass analogy, but anyway, that's what came to mind. 41:02 Maybe because we're on Sunset in LA, who knows? 41:04 Because there's strip club right across the street. 41:08 But we focus on that. 41:10 We become so outcome focused that when we are outcome-focused, we can't think clearly. 41:17 Mm-hmm cortisol releases. 41:19 We start to manage the the situation manage. 41:22 The game manage The patient manage of the day in the office manage to the team. 41:25 Yeah, people can't be managed What we have to do is and it's what you're talking about. 41:29 Yep It's about the process. 41:32 Right? 41:32 Yeah. 41:34 I mean When you hear me say all that like what goes through your head like I see you youre nodding like so yeah, tell me like, 41:42 what? 41:43 What what's coming up for you? 41:44 yeah so a lot of So I played basketball in college. 41:49 I was pretty good athlete. 41:51 Um, and I had a coach in colleges that we only ran three set plays. 41:58 Our practices consisted of putting, everybody had a certain number of shots they had to make, not shoot, like make. 42:05 And then we all, the whole practice was predicated on making cuts. 42:12 Like cuts on the, cuts in the court. 42:14 Everybody had, there was an L cut, a V cut. 42:18 There was like an arc we swing. 42:21 Literally that was the practice. 42:25 off of all those cuts, okay, these three design plays. 42:30 Okay. 42:30 It was like, it was almost like how the golden state warriors in their, um, 2015, 2014 through like their 20, that run that they had with a, 42:39 went to like five finals and six years or some shit. 42:43 And, they didn't run any place. 42:46 If you go watch the Golden State Warriors, they didn't run set plays during those years. 42:50 Everybody's ran a series of cuts. 42:53 I didn' know that. 42:55 Wow. 42:55 Okay. 42:55 Yeah. 42:56 Go watch it. 42:56 They don't runs set place. 42:58 Now it's probably different, but they did it then. 43:00 When I look at When I look at what we do, and I think what separates us, there's no competition in my eyes. 43:14 We're just focused on us. 43:15 Focused on the process. 43:17 I'm focused making our team better and bringing faculty along who are in line with the And including them in the process and including the feedbacks from 43:31 clients and what's the next stage of growth for us? 43:34 What do you guys see in this field? 43:43 As we structure like protocols of protocols, you can go to AI and get protocols ultrasound protocols or whatever. 43:50 Right. 43:50 It's not, it's, not that hard. 43:53 Okay. 43:55 How you make them work. 43:56 Yes. 43:57 And can you draw it to. 44:01 like a clinical, because the thing is, like, when you give somebody new an ultrasound probe, they forget how to be a clinician. 44:09 You know, the history, physical, mechanism of injury, what brought the person in? 44:13 As soon as I touch that thing, I'm associating it with something already. 44:16 There's something that happened in my life, positive or negative. 44:18 Most likely I am associing it to something negative, which is why I was there. 44:22 Because if it was something positive, it would be in a different place. 44:24 As I grab that wand, right, that tool, There is an association. 44:30 There was a moment, maybe there was moment that I was trying to do ultrasound on a rotation in the ER and the old 68-year-old ER doc told me I a dumb fuck 44:39 for the way I holding it. 44:41 And I forgot, I don't even remember it, that's not going through my head, but there's something that has been programmed inside of me that says, 44:47 this is dangerous. 44:48 Right? 44:49 Exactly. 44:49 Exactly, and that is the root. 44:53 That's, that's the route we're attacking. 44:55 Yeah. 44:55 And so creative. 44:56 It's really all attacked by the way. 44:58 People always come to us because they want the fucking checklist. 45:01 They want to attack. 45:01 We attacked this. 45:02 The cookbook. 45:03 Tell me, I want this sauce. 45:05 Show me how to make the sauce and the ingredients and all the things like that. 45:07 Okay. 45:08 You don't have to, it's not hard to find that right. 45:11 But it is how you make them work. 45:13 And, and the, the environment, everything from the you create to the language you use to flow of the day, to everything to, 45:25 food you order for lunch. 45:26 The whole process is what makes, that's what the show. 45:31 That's makes the outcome. 45:33 And we're not outcome focused. 45:35 So I love that you said that because that. 45:41 If I focus on the process, the score is going to take care of itself. 45:45 So if I focused on process... 45:48 We did this the other night on our weekly call, right? 45:50 So I've been going back into the processes with the clients. 45:54 And I said, okay, why don't you take three minutes, I want you to write down what's your process for a procedure. 46:02 Yeah. 46:03 Okay. 46:04 Now, how detailed do you think that process was for the doctors? 46:07 And granted, I'm like 50-50, right? 46:08 It doesn't matter if I am doing a knee ultrasound or I injecting PRP or doing organ and blood work or whatever for functional medicine. 46:17 Walk me through your procedure process, putting in an IV. 46:19 Super detailed. 46:21 Is there anything left to chance? 46:22 No. 46:24 Guess what happened when I asked him, now I want you to write down your process. 46:28 for when a patient, a new patient walks into your door, checks in and has their first appointment. 46:33 And you could see all their eyes go like this. 46:36 They're all like, and like they couldn't detail it. 46:39 I said, now, you, would you ever leave your surgery, your PRP injection to the chance that you just described to me for how you're checking in a patients? 46:51 And they went, no. 46:53 Yeah. 46:54 So why are you allowing that to be the case? 46:57 Because the process dictates everything. 46:59 Now, going back to your college coach, you guys, did you win a lot of games? 47:04 My first year, no. 47:05 My second year? 47:05 Yes. 47:06 Okay. 47:06 Yeah, and I bet all the other coaches in the league knew how he ran his practice. 47:12 Oh, yeah. 47:13 Treggs, Coach TreGGs. 47:14 Right, he had to have been there for a long time. 47:17 Oh, he was a legend. 47:18 Yeah, so I got him. 47:20 He was like 25 years in. 47:21 Okay. 47:21 So there are a bunch of his assistants that are our head coaches in the league that he playing against. 47:25 Right. 47:25 And I bet he beat them all the time. 47:28 They just freaking beat him like a drum. 47:29 With less talent in many cases. 47:32 Because it's not that people know what it is going to be. 47:36 It's that you run it better than anybody else. 47:38 I mean, the triangle offense. 47:42 of the Jordan days, right? 47:44 Texas Winter been running that thing for what, 25 years? 47:47 Right? 47:47 Johnny Bass like, okay, there's a triangle that moves all across the court and this is, that's it. 47:54 Like everybody in the league knew it, nobody could stop it right. 47:59 You think about Bill Walsh. 48:02 I watched this video one time, Bill Walsh, he measured the width of Joe Montana's steps back to make sure that they were precise so that he'd be in the 48:12 perfect spot of five steps, because everybody's five-steps are different, that when he released the ball, it would be a perfect timing to where the receiver 48:18 was going to be before they got there. 48:20 Right? 48:22 The process. 48:23 If we focus on dominating the play for six seconds, how long is an ultrasound appointment? 48:28 How long does it take from when you turn the thing on and you put the jelly in the things and do the diagnosis, how long is that process? 48:36 Like a finished product? 48:37 Yeah, I mean, you're going to ultrasound my elbow. 48:41 How is it going take? 48:42 It will take me seven minutes. 48:43 Okay, dominate those seven. 48:46 Don't leave anything to chance. 48:48 I don't want to have a checklist in front of me. 48:50 I'd like, you ever fly Cape Air? 48:54 Cape air is when you go to Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket, and you fly into Boston, You get in these propeller planes, right? 48:59 Okay. 48:59 And they ask you how much you weigh. 49:01 Yeah. 49:01 Okay? 49:03 And, they're like oh you weight 185 pounds, do you get to sit next, like there's no cockpit. 49:08 You sit in the co-pilot seat next to the pilot. 49:11 Uh huh. 49:11 Like my laptop bag is in The Wing. 49:14 It's one of those planes. 49:15 Right? 49:17 My freaking pilot, I've taken Cape Air 10 times. 49:19 My little pilot's got his little fucking checklist hanging up there. 49:22 Yeah. 49:23 Boy, that felt pretty good. 49:24 Like who cares? 49:26 Yeah, actually that's an analogy we use with our clients. 49:33 When your pilots in the cockpit and you're everybody's in their seats, you know, um, the stewardess or the flight attendants are doing their checklists, 49:43 right. 49:43 And the pilots are up there doing. 49:45 Right. 49:45 You want them to be as thorough as possible. 49:47 Absolutely. 49:48 It's peace of mind, that's what we're teaching here, and yes, Right now it takes you 25 minutes to do a shoulder. 49:57 Okay. 49:59 Dominate those 25 minutes. 50:01 Yeah. 50:01 Okay. 50:02 Mentally walk me through. 50:03 I'm not, I don't care about the pictures. 50:05 Because in a short amount of time, you're going to be, that 25 minute is going take you eight or seven. 50:12 Right. 50:13 And we're gonna look back in three to six months. 50:18 And we're going to document this, these first couple of days, and then we are going come back to it as, as a means of showing you the progress, 50:26 right? 50:27 And these, you know, just like myself and you and everybody we work with, everybody is for the most part, pretty hyper competitive, 50:35 with the exception of some people, but- Patrick Polly is not a competitive at all. 50:39 Not at all. 50:39 Oh no, no. 50:40 Yeah, Roddy's not compatible. 50:41 No, super like just... 50:43 Docile, just push over. 50:44 I mean, it's quite the opposite of those guys. 50:48 Those guys are insane. 50:49 Love them, love them to death. 50:51 It's just the nicest guys too. 50:55 Hyper competitive. 50:55 We all, I'm hyper competitive I know I am not as competitive as you are. 51:02 And that's one of the things that this personal work I've done this past year and a half is Being able to selectively use it better, 51:12 you know, uh, in, no one to. 51:17 Tone it down, right. 51:18 I'm going to dial back, but most of the people we work with have that edge. 51:22 They, they have it. 51:23 Th they don't know how to use it all the way yet. 51:26 And so I want to harness it with what we're doing here. 51:28 Okay. 51:29 There's a time and a place for it now. 51:31 It's not the time because we, you don' have the foundation set yet and easy to strip, strip that away for now and be willing to make some mistakes. 51:40 Are you with me? 51:41 Right. 51:42 Once you're willing, to do that, then this is going, make a lot more sense. 51:45 Why are mistakes so important in learning? 51:47 Oh my gosh. 51:48 I mean, that's a loaded question. 51:50 Mistakes are so important to learning because you have to learn how to fail and when fail or make a mistake is these aren't fatalities that we're dealing 52:02 with here. 52:02 These are things that are just exposing. 52:06 the next step of your process. 52:09 It's only a failure. 52:10 A mistake is only. 52:11 If you choose to let your ego get in the way and it won't allow you to learn from it. 52:17 Yeah. 52:17 Right. 52:18 That's true. 52:18 Cause ego is always in. 52:19 And until you can completely. 52:23 You can surrender the ego and still be competitive. 52:26 Like I say, I mean, know I'm not as competitive as you, or I know, not competitive, as a Petropoli or a Schachter or whatever, 52:32 a Gapin or wherever. 52:35 Wilhaus is pretty competitive But we all exhibit it in different ways. 52:40 Yeah. 52:40 I think when people think they're competitive, they like, fuck you. 52:43 Like, you know, talk trash talking. 52:45 No. 52:47 My compound competition is to run the process better than anybody else that I don't care what you do. 52:53 You can't beat me. 52:54 It's a standard. 52:55 This is a standards. 52:56 We talk a lot about the standard is just the standards that you hold yourself and your partners, your team and in your clients accountable to and really. 53:07 You know, I look at it, you know we had somebody recently who was like, You guys are great and you've been very accommodating, 53:15 but I need you to push me a little more. 53:17 I'm like great. 53:20 We had this conversation the other day, because we're bringing on a couple more coaches. 53:25 And I told them, if your client is getting off the phone with you and they're feeling all warm and fuzzy. 53:37 about you and what you're telling them to do, that's a red flag. 53:42 Now, our coaches are clearly not going to dog cuss somebody out and say you are a dumb motherfucker. 53:48 But we see this all the time. 53:50 People come to us and they think, oh, Matt just teaches people how to raise prices and put together packages. 53:55 No, the reason why we tell you to raise prices is when you raise price is 10% and you think it can't work and then it happens, 54:01 then you're like, Oh, maybe this guy's got something to teach me. 54:05 Right. 54:06 Because then the trust factor, you let me in a little bit more. 54:09 You let our team in, a bit. 54:10 Then we can begin the real work, right? 54:13 The real that sits behind that. 54:15 Why doesn't people always leave me all the time? 54:16 Why can I fire good people? 54:18 Well, You're the problem. 54:20 Let's examine where that lives. 54:21 And this becomes the uncomfortable work, right? 54:26 So we never ask for permission to push. 54:28 We just say, our job is, as the coach, I tell our coaches, your job, is you don't want them pissed at you, but you certainly don' want in the first six 54:38 months inviting you to their kid's bar mitzvah. 54:41 Maybe after six, cause like you have to be pushing them. 54:43 If you're getting too chummy with them, sometimes there's gotta be a little bit of a boundary there. 54:48 Yeah. 54:49 To be able to have those friend conversations. 54:50 The comfort zone sets in, right? 54:52 You're creating, you creating a, your creating comfort, comfort-zone environment. 54:56 And that's not where growth occurs. 54:58 Right? 54:59 There has to a bit a friction and there has be some. 55:03 Yeah, friction. 55:04 I mean, it's, you know, diamonds are made from pressure, and it is a balance of too much versus not enough and you have to, 55:12 that's an art to working with people and find what that is for them without going too far with it, right? 55:20 And so, you know, that, is something that I mean, I enjoy very much finding, finding where some of these dials are and what they are, 55:27 and getting permission from them. 55:28 Yeah. 55:29 There has to be a buy-in. 55:30 And this is all really, really I'm saying this as all implied. 55:34 Okay. 55:35 That you get permission them and once you, once, establish that relationship, the trust factor goes up and it becomes okay to now, 55:43 okay, now we're going to, we are going take it up a notch. 55:45 Yep. 55:47 Yep. 55:47 It's an increase over. 55:48 Yes, you're in, okay, now you've got this. 55:51 Now it's time to go to, let's, it just like working out, right? 55:53 You're at 20 pounds. 55:54 I'm not going to let you be happy at twenty pounds now. 55:56 You got to to 30. Yeah. 55:57 Right. 55:57 Like now we've gotta go forward. 55:58 We're going keep pushing you. 56:00 And you are going work a little harder. 56:01 Okay. 56:03 Yep, I think that's the challenge is that there is, there's this inherent belief There's, let me rephrase this. 56:18 There is this belief in society today that to be a good leader, you gotta be like kind and massaging their neck and bending over backwards and giving them 56:29 what they need. 56:31 And I can't tell you the number of people that have either a gone through my program or have worked with for me over the last 25 years or one of my programs 56:39 where I will get a phone call from somebody 10 years later going. 56:41 I get, I just had a LinkedIn message the other day from this guy, Justin. 56:44 He goes, you know, when I work for you, why fucking hate to do you're an asshole. 56:48 And he goes, you were the best goddamn boss I've ever had in my life. 56:51 He goes and I learned so much from you. 56:53 Like I cannot thank you for that foundation that you put. 56:55 And it became very, he did very well for us. 56:58 Then that company, we moved, everybody moved on. 57:02 It was time for the company to end and he went on and gone bigger and better things. 57:07 I think that's one thing from an employee than from a client. 57:13 It's how do you balance that? 57:15 I'm going to push you and not be an asshole, not a dick. 57:22 How do balance? 57:23 Yeah. 57:27 Well, first of all, I think you have to know yourself. 57:31 Talk to me about that. 57:32 Talking to about knowing yourself? 57:33 Yeah. 57:33 So there's an amount of perception required when working with somebody and we're talking about pushing boundaries and getting permission and working to 57:45 that and so. 57:48 First of all, you have to know your limits or what, maybe if there's no limits, great, but know, have an idea of what that other person's limits are for 57:58 that day or that season of life or whatever timeframe you're working with them in. 58:02 And if you can just increase them incrementally or are they making big jumps? 58:05 If they're making bigger jumps, then great. 58:07 Okay, we can take some bigger risks. 58:09 Now, am I willing to do that and potentially live if we take it too far with that person? 58:15 Great, may be. 58:17 Um, you know, uh, I, bet I've trained people like, man, i've done a lot of, coach since 1999, basketball camps, got into weightlifting and then coach Olympic 58:30 style weightlifters for. 58:32 Almost 10 years, my wife and I, and those are the most fun times. 58:36 I'm bringing this up because that's where I learned a lot of, first of all, cueing what works, what doesn't work for some people and how to push somebody 58:48 and make some really bad mistakes and didn't get them ready for a meet and failed them on meet day because we took We took the opener was way too heavy 58:57 and they missed it three times. 58:58 They bombed out of the meat. 58:59 Right. 59:00 And so you do that with a client. 59:02 Like now you got to get wins. 59:04 You got it. 59:05 Get wins, you gotta get winds, winds create that double min release. 59:09 For some people it's so important. 59:12 What's a minimum viable effort I can get them to today that's going to give them a micro win. 59:18 Cause that might be where they're at for the day. 59:21 But the person who's willing to take bigger jumps, like I said, great. 59:26 Let's, let's see what kind of ground we can cover with this. 59:29 Right. 59:30 Um, but knowing, I think, yeah, you have to have a comfortability within yourself to read that person. 59:35 That's what I'm saying. 59:35 You have the know yourself. 59:36 He had to build a, like, know what their risk tolerance is, with whatever the task at hand is. 59:44 Sun Tzu in The Outer War says, if you don't know yourself and you dont know your enemy, you'll lose 100% of your battles. 59:53 If you know you're enemy you will win 50% if your battle. 1:00:01 And you know your enemy, strengths and weaknesses, strength and weakness, you'll win 100% of your battles. 1:00:06 Most people spend, they spend very little time getting to know their true selves. 1:00:12 And more important, their shadow. 1:00:15 When you understand your shadow, It changes everything. 1:00:21 You said something a little bit ago, like you didn't talk about shadow, but you talked about, we were talking about competitiveness, 1:00:30 and you were taking about the dark side of that. 1:00:34 My words, not yours. 1:00:37 What have you learned about yourself? 1:00:38 Now, you've been CEO of this company now for three years, okay? 1:00:44 What are you even learning about your self and your journey in leadership? 1:00:48 What are some things that you thought you had figured out that once you got to battle, you're like, I don't know fucking shit? 1:00:57 What were some of the assumptions that had when you first started and now your reality of what that is? 1:01:04 Talk to me about this role that moved into from a leadership standpoint, and not just in the company, but in industry. 1:01:10 When people we work with on our team, in our organization, You know, I, the old, The smaller me, the little Colin would have, 1:01:23 you know, uh, The person, who used to drive me and I didn't know it subconsciously, right? 1:01:28 You know the inner child, it was like, we're all getting on the same page. 1:01:32 We're going to do this, this this and it's going be that, that right. 1:01:35 And everyone's gonna be on board and that's the opposite. 1:01:38 Um, people, You people need frameworks. 1:01:43 Yes. 1:01:44 Okay. 1:01:44 But also. 1:01:46 What motivates this person is now a motivates that person. 1:01:49 Is not what draws alignment with this right? 1:01:52 And so You need to be first of all, I've learned how to a lot more calm which is really important, you know, that's a big deal and not that I ever lost 1:02:02 my shit before but like internally like, You know what I mean? 1:02:04 You can you can be that that dad You know duck on a pond. 1:02:09 It looks like they're you know going smoothly across the water, but underneath the what are they doing? 1:02:13 Right? 1:02:13 Yeah, I don't like right so Mike learn to recognize that in myself and Just allow other people to like oh I see they really work better when I just give 1:02:27 them that kind of space. 1:02:28 You know what I mean? 1:02:30 And I noticed this person is now not asking me any questions anymore because I'm not writing their shit, you know? 1:02:37 Um, so I think recognizing when like to detach, like, and I've done this, just not only in the organization, but with. 1:02:49 You know, my wife, um, and some friction with my, mom and my brother and those things. 1:02:57 It's like, it's okay to detach there. 1:03:02 Talk to me about what detaching is. 1:03:04 Cause somebody could listening to this detatching is like. 1:03:07 Yeah. 1:03:08 You're going into a cave. 1:03:09 When you say detaching, what does that mean and what is that look like? 1:03:12 Yeah, emotionally detach. 1:03:14 Emotionally detach from being drawn in. 1:03:17 To the emotional side of the, it should be this way or they should all over in them. 1:03:23 Yes. 1:03:24 Detaching from what I think they shouldn't do. 1:03:26 Yeah absolutely. 1:03:28 Yes, when I see a good thank you for saying that, because that's what I mean, is I'm detaching from the emotional, like, 1:03:34 oh, it has to be this way, right? 1:03:37 No, It doesn't. 1:03:38 Let me, this instinct is wrong. 1:03:40 let me back off and assess, first of all, what was making me do that. 1:03:45 Right. 1:03:45 And then let, me step back and analyze that conversation I just had so I can formulate my thoughts and then come back to the person with, 1:03:53 look, that is not what it meant. 1:03:55 Can we, can we start again? 1:03:56 You know what i mean? 1:03:58 I do it with my kids, do with with wife, and it's a healthy exercise I've now incorporated. 1:04:07 Well, you've also learned how you're designed. 1:04:09 Yeah. 1:04:09 There are some people that they have to do in that moment, okay? 1:04:13 There's other people like you and I, I used to think as a leader I gotta have the fucking answer right then and there. 1:04:20 Boom, boom, let's go. 1:04:21 We're gonna move fast, right? 1:04:23 And what I've realized is we're actually moving slow because I was moving fast because we'd have to spend time undoing all the shit that I thought in the moment. 1:04:30 And once I realized that, I'll get an answer, but it's in 24 to 72 hours. 1:04:36 It's okay to say, i'll give back to you. 1:04:39 Like that's been a massive shift for me as a leader. 1:04:42 Yeah. 1:04:43 Then explaining that to my team, like I just hired two new people and I'm like, look, You're gonna come to me, you're going to bring ideas to be. 1:04:49 I'm gonna listen to it. 1:04:50 And you gonna hear me say, okay, that does not mean to go do it, what it means is okay I hear you, I'll get back to you when I have an answer. 1:04:58 That answer could be 72 hours, it could 24 hours. 1:05:01 It could seven weeks, right? 1:05:04 But I will not move forward until I've a fuck yes. 1:05:07 Just because I am not giving, because you didn't convince me as a fucking yes, your job is not to convince. 1:05:13 In fact, just explain what you are looking to do. 1:05:18 Like, what do you see? 1:05:19 Nine times out of 10, I'll probably come and go, all right, well, let's give it a try, because it's a two-way door. 1:05:24 Nothing's going to blow up if we try it, right? 1:05:28 It's when people are like, and then we got to do this, we've got do do and what you think? 1:05:31 I'm like I will let you know. 1:05:32 When are you going let me know? 1:05:33 Like I don't know when I get the answer. 1:05:35 Like that's better form of leadership from my design than being a rapid fire. 1:05:39 And that rapid fireworks for other people. 1:05:42 A friend of mine, he's great. 1:05:44 He's like, nope, we're gonna do this. 1:05:45 Boom, boom. 1:05:45 That's Roddy, by the way. 1:05:46 Mm-hmm. 1:05:47 This is what we are going to do. 1:05:48 Okay. 1:05:48 he just knows in the second. 1:05:50 Yeah. 1:05:51 Heather knows, in an instant, right? 1:05:53 She fucking knows. 1:05:54 She's, like we can do that. 1:05:54 I'm like I've just learned to trust it. 1:05:58 So when you say detach, you're detaching from the pressure to make the decision. 1:06:01 Pressure to know what to do. 1:06:02 Yes. 1:06:03 Yeah. 1:06:04 But sometimes I do, sometimes it is like, I'm a gut person. 1:06:09 You know, what I mean? 1:06:09 When it, is, and like I know if I take the time to detach and think about something that I already know the answer to, like. 1:06:17 I am just going to create more stress. 1:06:18 Like, no, but when it comes to. 1:06:23 When it comes to things like, maybe it's a long-term thing, that if we're going to invest in this thing or fundamentally adapt something that we are doing, 1:06:33 like no, no that's something the needs to get. 1:06:36 That takes time, right? 1:06:38 And that should take time. 1:06:39 And it should maybe some, first of all, to think about it and then take some counsel with Ryan or other people who I trust and make the decision out of that. 1:06:48 But certainly. 1:06:51 Certainly I've stopped. 1:06:53 Yes, that having to be an answering machine having, to feel like, you know, your, yeah. 1:06:58 What's changed in your body, not having be the answer. 1:07:00 Um, what have you noticed if anything in. 1:07:03 My blood pressure has gone down. 1:07:07 I'm routinely like one 13 over like 60 62 or something. 1:07:10 Like I just had at the end of the IV the other day and it was like 128. And I was. 1:07:14 Oh, she's like that's really good. 1:07:15 Yeah. 1:07:17 Yeah. 1:07:19 I had my nurse come to our house and she was doing my blood work. 1:07:30 My son's taking martial arts and he's learning some new things. 1:07:33 And so I sit at every practice. 1:07:35 He trains like four hours a week and you've got a great teacher, good studio. 1:07:39 So some of the things that they teach the kids, like I'm learning how to adapt that. 1:07:43 And so like, as I was sitting there, yeah. 1:07:46 Yeah. 1:07:46 She's like do you do martial arts? 1:07:48 I am like no, I don't. 1:07:50 I felt you just leave your body. 1:07:53 That's an intentional practice of mine. 1:07:58 First of all, just want to like... 1:08:00 I know like having a needle stuck in me, so I wanted to You know, bring it down. 1:08:04 And so I can intentionally do that by doing some sacral breathing. 1:08:08 Um, and so just being calmer in general, you know? 1:08:11 And then you have, we all have our moments, but recognizing when, You'll recognize in the triggers. 1:08:17 Yeah. 1:08:18 That, yeah. 1:08:19 You. 1:08:20 The take you places that, that are familiar, But you don't want to go again. 1:08:26 Like that's, That's a big deal for me. 1:08:29 Yeah. 1:08:31 There's so much programming in us that we don't even realize it. 1:08:34 Yeah, right. 1:08:35 And there's two things I wish I could do. 1:08:39 I wished I'd go back to past girlfriends and say, I'm sorry. 1:08:41 Right. 1:08:41 That was an asshole. 1:08:44 It's the past wives. 1:08:48 That's all right. 1:08:49 I know they don't listen to this. 1:08:51 They fricking wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire. 1:08:54 So, I wish I could go back to past girlfriends and I wished I get to go in time with my leadership styles. 1:09:02 When I outcome-focused, when I'm outcome driven, like the clinics, we were very outcome focused. 1:09:09 It wasn't until the end that I started moving into really understanding the application of the process. 1:09:14 Didn't make the full transition because then we sold or I sold But it was always how much did we do today? 1:09:22 How much would you get what'd you got? 1:09:24 What'd? 1:09:24 You get? 1:09:25 Would you yet? 1:09:25 We were all outcome focused and I hate that version of myself now I honor that person myself But I look at how that outcome oriented person How that impacted 1:09:39 my marriage, my first marriage especially, how that impact my children, How it impacted how I engaged in my community and my neighborhood, 1:09:52 right? 1:09:53 Because it was all outcome focused. 1:09:56 And now, today, here in LA, almost 59 years old, all I care about is the process. 1:10:04 and we are routinely defining the process, what is the standard? 1:10:09 What is standard, okay? 1:10:12 Because, you know, we have a standard at Mavericks, and the question then is based on valor, that's one of our values, right? 1:10:21 So valor is courage, I'll read this to you, because we were just talking about this with the team. 1:10:24 Love it. 1:10:25 Okay? 1:10:25 Valor is, do you have the courage to execute the right thing, the way, at the time, all the, time? 1:10:32 Mm-hmm. 1:10:32 Okay? 1:10:33 Because it takes a tremendous amount of courage to do that. 1:10:37 Like, I've started wearing a whoop again. 1:10:40 Will's like, you gotta fix some shit, right? 1:10:43 Like I don't like these numbers. 1:10:44 I like your A1, C1. 1:10:45 And I liked the way it's trending. 1:10:46 You don' like you're triglyceride number. 1:10:48 Good work on these other things, but these two things I dont like this, okay? 1:10:51 And he's really calling me out of my exercise protocol and what I'm eating, and rightfully so, Okay. 1:10:56 What I think is two tablespoons of olive oil is probably like five. 1:11:00 Right, you know like just simple shit like that. 1:11:04 And so I've committed to doing the hard thing and that is I'm gonna track everything not if I have a almond chocolate Cup right like I mean a track it 1:11:19 I'll track Everything and I am not going to allay it and say that's close enough. 1:11:22 Okay, right. 1:11:23 I will track last night I got home Gone to the gym at 3.30, hard workout, went over to Cigar Lounge, hung out, watched the end of the heat game, 1:11:33 you know, and Timberwolves game. 1:11:36 Drove home in the rain, which is 30 minutes, right? 1:11:37 Talked to my brother, get, got to switch the cars around, because, whatever. 1:11:44 And I walk in house at eight o'clock and I haven't had dinner. 1:11:49 Now I got make a decision. 1:11:51 Well, I did fasting already that day. 1:11:55 I know you and I are going to be doing some stuff today. 1:11:58 If I don't have dinner, then that means I'm choosing that I am going not eat until six o'clock. 1:12:03 That's going be a 24 hour fast. 1:12:04 Right. 1:12:05 that's not going really good for me. 1:12:06 Like I going through all these things, right? 1:12:07 You get it right. 1:12:08 You understand this. 1:12:09 Oh yeah. 1:12:10 And I went, fuck, really don' have anything in the house. 1:12:13 and i had to find and look, oh, i need 40 grams more protein. 1:12:19 and I had to find it, right? 1:12:21 And then I to make sure I stayed up two hours so that it could digest, I have to do the right thing at the time, all the because missing a day, 1:12:32 missing window, have you ever heard of 75 Hard? 1:12:36 Yes. 1:12:36 Okay. 1:12:37 So you like two 45 minute workouts. 1:12:39 One of them's got to be outside. 1:12:40 You're going to read 10 pages of nonfiction. 1:12:42 And you're gonna commit to a diet. 1:12:43 There's no cheat days. 1:12:45 For 75 days, it's brutal. 1:12:46 I made it like 2 weeks. 1:12:48 Yeah. 1:12:49 Like this sucks. 1:12:51 The two workouts a day was pretty good. 1:12:55 Well, if you miss one little thing, you got to start over again. 1:12:58 And I think it was one of those things that's like, I was on the road and I didn't get my second workout in. 1:13:02 I'm like you dumb fuck. 1:13:03 You sat at the goddamn gate. 1:13:04 It could have walked for 45 minutes around the airport, right? 1:13:06 Like, Right. 1:13:07 Right? 1:13:07 I just, chose not to do the right thing at right time. 1:13:10 Yeah. 1:13:10 All the time, and that to me, when we talk about standards, You don't get a choice in the surgery room when you're treating a patient, 1:13:19 whether you are going to follow the standard. 1:13:21 The standard is the. 1:13:23 Right. 1:13:23 Yep. 1:13:25 For me, for leadership, that's been one of the biggest like, Oh my God, I finally have understood at these last two years. 1:13:31 Like I've finally understood how that little. 1:13:34 kid, that inner child, was getting in the way of doing that because the inner-child just wanted to have fun. 1:13:39 Yes. 1:13:40 Yeah. 1:13:41 It sounds to me like you're experiencing that same kind of epiphany in your leadership style. 1:13:45 What would you say? 1:13:46 Big time. 1:13:48 And it's been significantly augmented with my wife's journey because we're doing the same work. 1:13:55 You and Jess are doing same the work together. 1:13:59 Same work that Christine and I are doing, same work. 1:14:01 Yeah. 1:14:02 Most of my team is on, right? 1:14:03 We have gym dates. 1:14:05 We track our, we do all our meal prep. 1:14:08 Oh, yeah. 1:14:08 You have yoga dates, I didn't even think about it. 1:14:09 Tuesdays are yoga. 1:14:10 Like it's our date night. 1:14:11 we go to yoga, then we share, you know, do the showers on and then go out to dinner. 1:14:14 And we have a great time. 1:14:15 For us it is Friday and Sunday. 1:14:17 That's cool. 1:14:18 What a thing to do instead of going out and getting drunk. 1:14:22 Yeah. 1:14:23 Yeah, my wife is a total, she's a teetotaler and always has been. 1:14:27 And we're quite the, yeah, when we met, it was quite a contrast. 1:14:36 One day you'll call me up and say, I'm ready to tell that story. 1:14:38 If ever. 1:14:39 Well, no, and it's cool story, we'll talk about it. 1:14:42 But having that person and having like, you know, honestly, saved our marriage because the inner entities that were driving me, 1:14:59 like, there was just no off-ramp. 1:15:04 And I didn't know I could choose my off ramp. 1:15:08 Ooh, talk about that. 1:15:09 Yeah. 1:15:09 What do you mean, choose your off? 1:15:11 Well, I had to be shown this. 1:15:12 You know, you and I have both worked with Mike Zeller and- Well let me- and now I want to give people context. 1:15:18 So you were basically like a moral reprobate as a teenager. 1:15:21 Yeah. 1:15:21 Yeah, okay. 1:15:21 So that's, we're going to leave it at that. 1:15:23 Totally. 1:15:24 You're making some bad decisions. 1:15:26 Right. 1:15:26 Just making bad decision after bad. 1:15:28 Between the ages of 16 and 20, it was just not uncommon for a lot. 1:15:32 No, no, not on common. 1:15:34 And right. 1:15:36 The thing that was driving me was like, it all came from just how I got approval and how we got love was I had to get results. 1:15:44 It was outcomes, right? 1:15:46 Grades, sports, attitude, be a good boy, like all the things. 1:15:50 And what did I, of course I'm not going to do all that. 1:15:52 I'm going to do the opposite. 1:15:53 Yeah. 1:15:54 You and I, mine was all out coming to my family. 1:15:56 Exactly. 1:15:57 And so realizing like, man, like where's my off-ramp? 1:16:02 Like, I didn't know this language at all. 1:16:05 Like I don't even know I can choose it. 1:16:06 Did that language of an off ramp come up in your work with Mike? 1:16:08 Yes. 1:16:09 Really? 1:16:10 Yeah, it's the first time I've heard of this. 1:16:11 It's like you're driving a car. 1:16:15 Right. 1:16:15 This other person's driving, right? 1:16:21 That's your, the lower version of yourself is driving and you're in the back seat and Oh, that's right. 1:16:28 I remember this meditation. 1:16:28 Yeah. 1:16:29 And you know, are you, I'm ready to take the wheel now and you kindly ask the, the other version of yourself to either pull over and then sit in the back 1:16:41 or exit the car. 1:16:42 and, and again, just, man, it took time. 1:16:47 It wasn't immediate, but that language like stuck with me. 1:16:53 And I was like, that's what I've been searching for since I like 16. Cause just, you get older and then you have kids and the enmeshment patterns of the 1:17:10 issues you had with your family's ancestral enmechments. 1:17:12 And then your marriage and everything's just like this ball of en measurement of emotion. 1:17:20 Like you don't know how to interpret any of it because you haven't learned to detach and pick an off ramp from it. 1:17:27 And it's okay to do that. 1:17:29 It's not an insult and you're not walking away from that other person. 1:17:37 You know, you just, it is okay. 1:17:38 How much is this work changed your marriage with you and Jess? 1:17:41 How has this transformed it? 1:17:44 It's amazing. 1:17:45 Like in a really positive way. 1:17:46 I can't even explain it. 1:17:47 No, it's so positive. 1:17:48 It is ridiculous. 1:17:49 Yeah. 1:17:49 You took this analogy like this mesh, like I was sitting there and I thinking I'm like, no, when I married Sarah, my first wife was married for 25 years. 1:17:55 She's my college sweetheart. 1:18:02 And, you know, we had the big wedding and then, bought our first town home and we then had Megan and moved to Florida and had Andrew. 1:18:09 We were doing all the things. 1:18:13 And I look back and how my upbringing and Trauma Circle kept playing over and over again, how hers, and the two of us that were inseparable, 1:18:27 like we were the couple in college campus at Ferris State, right? 1:18:33 And you're right, this enmeshment, it's like it gets stickier and sticker and it can't move. 1:18:38 It becomes like this thing that just gets stuck. 1:18:42 their emotions become yours, yours are theirs, their life runs on how you're running and it's this pattern. 1:18:49 Their energy is tapped to how your feeling and then you are angry because they don't understand how are you feeling, and that makes you more angry or whatever 1:18:56 it is. 1:18:57 My seven year old, he turned eight on Sunday, you used to run my wife's life. 1:19:03 And however he was feeling was how her day was going to go. 1:19:06 Yes, absolutely. 1:19:06 Well, it's pretty common for women. 1:19:07 It is. 1:19:08 You and I would, we would fucking surrender if we had to give birth. 1:19:12 Yeah. 1:19:12 Imagine when you're constipated, okay? 1:19:14 Now, how horrible is that when it takes 20 minutes to take a shit? 1:19:17 Imagine like carrying something inside of you, knowing it is going hurt, and then the nine month mark, you are like, ah, 1:19:22 this thing. 1:19:23 And it was big. 1:19:24 So anyway, yeah. 1:19:25 We would give up. 1:19:26 Totally give it up, but I mean, being able to like have somebody show you like Number one, these patterns aren't unique to you and here's a few tools you 1:19:41 can use when these things come up. 1:19:44 Now I'm going to ask you to do some work between now and the next time I talk with you. 1:19:49 And I want you identify what those triggers were or are and tell me how you chose the off-ramp from it. 1:19:56 you know, and you both hold each other accountable to it. 1:19:58 That's good. 1:19:59 And it is really hard, dude. 1:20:01 It's really like, it's not easy. 1:20:03 We're still like there's a lot of work where you recognize it, but it never ends. 1:20:07 So it it an infinite game. 1:20:09 Because you're always going to make yourself uncomfortable because you want to become a better version of yourself. 1:20:13 Yeah. 1:20:13 Right. 1:20:14 Yep. 1:20:14 Yeah, always. 1:20:15 At least people like you and I are that way. 1:20:18 Yeah. 1:20:18 It's a game I'm willing to play infinitely as long as I am alive. 1:20:22 Absolutely. 1:20:22 I'll never stop playing the game. 1:20:23 And it's translated into the work with AMSKU, I feel with First of all, being like, just knowing what we do and we, do it so well that we don't have to 1:20:37 focus on anything else other than our process and where we're going. 1:20:43 And I care more about bringing other people along, like who are. 1:20:49 who want to work with us, like other faculty. 1:20:52 And there's a few more things on the horizon I would like to deploy as part of our offerings and stuff like that. 1:21:04 Seeing other makes me really happy to work with other people who have known for some time now and bring them into the program, 1:21:11 bring him along and watch them work. 1:21:13 With other clients and then see the client's feedback about them, like, and have them read it. 1:21:19 And then we get together, talk about it, about, you know, we're, w we are now starting to have more, um, it's not, this is not formal, 1:21:26 but now more organized, trainer meetings where. 1:21:33 I'm a, the next step is empowering them with the process, right? 1:21:38 And creating some new programs. 1:21:40 And now we don't have to reinvent the wheel or anything. 1:21:42 Like this is the technical skills. 1:21:44 Right. 1:21:45 It's a set of skills, but it's all that work has, first of all, I couldn't, wouldn't've been capable two or three years ago. 1:21:53 Yeah. 1:21:55 I would agree, by the way. 1:21:56 You'd know me. 1:21:57 We've known each other what? 1:21:59 Four years or something like that. 1:22:01 Yep, I remember you were sitting in my house when we had everybody other body over and we'd have like 14 Yeah, it's being surgeons and pain management 1:22:08 doctor in the house. 1:22:08 We did a group journey session and I Remember you're kind of sitting off to the side and remember I can't remember exactly what I said to you But I'm like 1:22:17 you need this badly like this. 1:22:19 You need to go to a session with Mike I remembers that because I sent it probably like six or seven of the people in them and Cause when I coach them, 1:22:25 like I can read people pretty well. 1:22:27 Like it's kind of one of my superpowers. 1:22:29 And you were like, yeah, but you are so closed off before you. 1:22:33 Right. 1:22:34 Now you're like. 1:22:39 I mean, it's just, It's been really cool to see because the growth of your company, we'll talk about your annual event coming up here in just a minute. 1:22:48 Um, but the, growth, of, your, company watching your leadership transform, going from you and Ryan as buddies, doing something. 1:22:57 It,'s hard for somebody to step up into that role as the CEO and manage that. 1:23:03 right that's not an easy no right because ryan is the reason why you guys work so well together he's very different than you and he has a he is a different 1:23:12 set of skill sets as sad skills and what he really great at like his social media stuff is fucking amazing and runs this Online seminar webinar seminar 1:23:23 that you guys do it one day. 1:23:24 That's just amazing Like I was blown away at what you pulled off last year and what I can't wait to see what to do this year Hopefully your keynote's pretty good. 1:23:31 Yeah. 1:23:31 Hopefully he doesn't suck like just watching you Go from this is the way it's supposed to be to creating that space for Ryan to step into who he is now 1:23:43 It's been really fun to watch. 1:23:45 Ryan's a world-class communicator and instructor. 1:23:47 Yeah. 1:23:48 He really is. 1:23:52 I really want to see him fulfill that to the max capacity possible. 1:24:01 And we're all on our own path. 1:24:03 For me, that's one of the hardest things and easiest things as a leader. 1:24:07 It is hard because I want people to change at a different pace. 1:24:12 It's easy because I don't have to worry about the pace. 1:24:14 Yeah. 1:24:16 Cause everybody's on their own timeline. 1:24:17 Right? 1:24:18 You don' know what the fuck goes on at their house. 1:24:19 No, no. 1:24:22 You know, you don''t know. 1:24:23 What they're really dealing with inside. 1:24:25 you Don't really know the real trauma, right? 1:24:28 I mean, You told me a little bit about your story. 1:24:30 And then over time you've been telling me more. 1:24:32 I'm like, wow. 1:24:35 Okay. 1:24:35 That was hurting bad. 1:24:37 Uh, I didn't know how to release it. 1:24:42 Yeah. 1:24:43 How'd you release it? 1:24:47 I'm still, this is a version of it. 1:24:50 Like what you're seeing, what we're doing right now. 1:24:52 So when you released a layer, do you find there's another layer? 1:24:54 Yeah. 1:24:55 Yeah, yeah. 1:24:57 I, I'm, very, um, a curious person. 1:24:59 And I want to know like, what made that version of what, made, What made the version myself exist? 1:25:05 Like what drove it and what kept me in it for so long? 1:25:10 And then you start peeling away the layers of. 1:25:14 the triggers. 1:25:15 And I'm realizing like, that's just what I want to, you know, it could be something micro now, but like a decision on what to get from the store, 1:25:23 some shit. 1:25:24 But like. 1:25:25 Oh, That's the thing. 1:25:27 You know? 1:25:27 It was just in a different form back then. 1:25:29 It's amazing how it hides. 1:25:31 Yeah. 1:25:34 And honestly, you know, it took me some time to like, I really stripped away a lot and I've been re-incorporating some things back in. 1:25:49 Because you just learn to change your relationship with it. 1:25:52 Like alcohol. 1:25:53 You know? 1:25:55 I was never like an alcohol addict. 1:25:57 I never drank a lots. 1:26:00 Would have some right and then I would but the way I was using it before was much different much Yes, you use it to cope. 1:26:08 Yes use. 1:26:09 It to de-stress at the end of the day Yes exactly versus one madman or whatever. 1:26:13 This is what men do, right? 1:26:15 Advice of mine man is I have a sauna at home. 1:26:19 I Take a son. 1:26:20 Ah, I come out. 1:26:21 We'll take a whiskey and a beer I love it But you had me at sauna. 1:26:27 Yeah, yeah, whiskey and beer. 1:26:29 No, but but it's the in that. 1:26:34 It's like you go to the cigar lounge. 1:26:35 Yeah, it's my, I don't care. 1:26:38 I mean, yeah. 1:26:40 But, but it is the relationship with it. 1:26:42 And I. 1:26:43 It is nothing more than like, you know, my wife and I will sit on the patio. 1:26:47 Now it was nice in Arizona and, and talk and. 1:26:51 Do that without the stress of having to like do I need another one? 1:26:54 Cause I want to feel a little bit more, You know? 1:26:57 It. 1:26:58 I can choose to have a relationship with something that formerly was, I would use it the wrong way. 1:27:05 I will use to achieve something in a way that wasn't productive or good for me versus now, it's just different. 1:27:14 It's really fascinating when you learn about the triggers. 1:27:16 So Christine and I just did a trip to New York, right? 1:27:20 Christine's a theater, like she's an actress, she loves the theater. 1:27:25 And her best friend from high school lives in New york. 1:27:28 She loves NewYork, Christine could have chosen L.A. 1:27:31 or New York right, She decided she wanted to do the film thing so she came to L A. 1:27:34 You know Christine, Oh, we've got to go to Chicago for CE lasers. 1:27:44 Before that, We're going to New York. 1:27:46 It's pretty much outspit. 1:27:49 I'm like, okay, I don't like the energy of New york. 1:27:50 That whole thing. 1:28:03 That group of people like just kind of rubbed me the wrong way. 1:28:07 That whole like, yo, like hey, my shit doesn't stink. 1:28:09 Like what the fuck is wrong with you, Joey? 1:28:11 Like, you know, that whole thing, joey bag of donuts thing. 1:28:15 And she's like and she knows I don't like New York. 1:28:18 I also don' like Christmas. 1:28:19 Okay, by the way, newsflash. 1:28:21 Sorry, I dont' hate Christmas, i don''t like christmas, because it was never any good growing up. 1:28:26 Right? 1:28:27 It was always a, well, it outcome driven. 1:28:31 You know, it wasn't gifts given from love. 1:28:33 It was like mandated. 1:28:34 My mom's like, you better be good now. 1:28:38 Right? 1:28:38 Like it was all fucking hell and fire. 1:28:43 So anyway, we go to New York. 1:28:46 You know direct flight get in the uber get there I'm kind of laughing about it and we go to check in and For whatever reason MX has put a lock on my card 1:28:57 because there's a charge that's coming in from me Whatever, you know how it is when you travel and I've tired because I just been in Las Vegas and it's 1:29:04 taken forever And like I'm kind of losing my shit and we go to dinner and she's like, you really don't like it here. 1:29:11 I like. 1:29:12 No, I hate New York. 1:29:14 Can't fucking stand it. 1:29:14 And now I was tired and I hungry because he'd been been on the road prior to that and were going to be up for six days in the room. 1:29:20 Wasn't very good. 1:29:20 In the bed was small. 1:29:22 Right. 1:29:22 Mm hmm. 1:29:25 and we were walking around the village two nights later. 1:29:28 I'm like, I really like the energy. 1:29:30 Like I gave myself a reframe of New York and I looked at it differently. 1:29:34 Now I don't think I could live there, but I like I saw, gave an opportunity to change the way I viewed Manhattan and saw the excitement as opposed to I 1:29:49 used to see the competitiveness and the grittiness and crime and brutality of the people. 1:29:55 And what I did was like, oh, wait a second. 1:29:59 These little neighborhoods, they're all little cities within these 10 block areas are all cities, within cities and all these people have all their own 1:30:06 lives and they were all intermeshed. 1:30:08 And, Oh, okay. 1:30:10 and I compared it to here to LA as like I gave boing is this as I give myself a reframe. 1:30:16 which I think is I tell the story because that's what we have to do with the people in our teams. 1:30:21 You gave yourself a reframe around Ryan or you gave your self a reframing around one of your other training or something right like you've done this. 1:30:26 When we create ourselves a refrain and we see the People and the joy of what they're doing. 1:30:32 And I'm walking around and people are having a great time. 1:30:34 They're smiling, laughing. 1:30:34 I'll be like, they love it here. 1:30:36 What is it that they'll love about it? 1:30:37 Well, there's great restaurants every 10 blocks. 1:30:40 You know, There's people out. 1:30:42 There is music playing. 1:30:43 It's vibrant. 1:30:45 Right. 1:30:46 So for me, from a leadership standpoint, I think it's our job is to create the standard. 1:30:54 This is the Maverick standard, this is AMSQ standard this. 1:30:56 Is this the process of how we do it and reframe the way that we see the people that are working inside of that, because I believe most people want to do 1:31:09 it the right way. 1:31:10 It's our job as leaders is to find out what programming is running in their background that's preventing them from doing it, 1:31:16 not what's their motivation. 1:31:19 Everybody is writing a program that is inherited. 1:31:22 language, views, beliefs, all of it, that is then driving their attempt to get the outcomes. 1:31:29 Yeah. 1:31:31 And if you create something most of the time unconsciously that makes people forced into, they're going to be stunted, and you have to create the space 1:31:48 that Allows them to like no that's there's not a restriction here. 1:31:52 Yeah, like really we there. 1:31:53 Here's the framework. 1:31:55 Mm-hmm work within the Framework, but I want it to be your own. 1:31:58 You know what I mean and and allow them do that without feeling like there is a you know Somebody looking over the shoulder or somebody else in their head 1:32:09 driving the decision. 1:32:09 No, it should be you and that that Creative freedom is you fully licensed. 1:32:16 Yep Yeah. 1:32:18 So you guys have a big event coming up first weekend, first Saturday of December as we finish this up. 1:32:23 I want to spend a few minutes and talking about this. 1:32:26 This is an online training program. 1:32:30 Tell us what you're doing. 1:32:31 Yeah, so it's your second year that you doing it. 1:32:33 Last year was really cool. 1:32:33 It was great. 1:32:35 What is this thing that got you going up? 1:32:37 So this is the annual global summit and we have it the first saturday in December. 1:32:42 Um, last year it was our first, this year is our second. 1:32:45 That makes it an annual. 1:32:46 It's an Annual. 1:32:50 Last year we just called it the Global Summit, but this year's annual because it's a commitment that this is again a standard that we're going to uphold 1:32:58 and keep and we want to, you know, grow into it. 1:33:03 And so we have 30 speakers lined up and we three tracks. 1:33:08 There's going to be, um, kind of diagnostic mastery or the biologics latest, uh, and then kind Last year we had about a hundred people, 1:33:23 give or take from all over the globe across five continents. 1:33:26 Yeah. 1:33:27 Really cool. 1:33:28 And so this year, we're going for six continents and, um, why not seven? 1:33:33 Go for Antarctica. 1:33:35 I know that's a running joke in the team is you want to tell me penguin can figure it out with the flipper. 1:33:39 No, it's going to be hard, but they could do it. 1:33:41 Okay. 1:33:42 Um, and so, yeah, is this open access platform that is, uh, again, The theme is the next decade is in your hands. 1:33:51 And so creative license for every speaker to give a, it doesn't have to be prediction, but just where's the field headed? 1:34:00 And then if you could, this is a fun, creative exercise that in 10 years, what do you see for your particular arena? 1:34:09 You know, could be, you know orthobiologics, business, implementation, AI diagnostics, where's that going to be? 1:34:20 You know, and, so this is our way of bringing the community together and putting our stamp on, you know in a way that's unique to us that I want to, 1:34:35 I'm going to create a small environment. 1:34:38 Like I wanted to feel like a smaller environment, but big impact globally. 1:34:43 And, and so getting people from like last year, oh my gosh, we had. 1:34:49 I learned so many things, honestly, be, um, thermal thermal mapping for, uh, diagnostics and pain. 1:34:55 Yeah. 1:34:55 This is like the energy, with thermal, mapping, like you thermal map somebody where, where they're, were their hotspots are and, 1:35:02 in talking about facial restrictions. 1:35:05 never occurred to me. 1:35:06 Oh, no, that's really cool. 1:35:07 Totally. 1:35:07 That makes total sense with yoga. 1:35:08 It makes totally sense. 1:35:10 Yeah. 1:35:10 I mean, it's like my chiropractor. 1:35:11 So it was energy. 1:35:12 And this doctor has been doing this for a long time. 1:35:14 For me, I was brand new as a guy from South America, Brazil. 1:35:19 Bringing together minds from places that were, you know, because it is easy to get, again, siloed. 1:35:26 Creating a community that is just, hey, We're thinking bigger here. 1:35:32 And so it's a lot of fun, a lotta work, but the creative effort is, you know, Ryan and I are leading it jointly, this is Ryan's baby, 1:35:41 and he does a really good job. 1:35:43 He does great job of getting the speakers lined up, the social media, that the messaging, they idea, running the team with it. 1:35:53 So again, December 5th, 2026. How do they sign up? 1:35:56 So it was online. 1:35:57 You can go to summit.emsku.com. 1:35:59 summit.amsku.com, summit dot amsku dot com. 1:36:04 Exactly. 1:36:05 Okay. 1:36:05 Yep. 1:36:06 And there's pricing on there. 1:36:07 There's early bird pricing as well. 1:36:09 Early bird, pricing actually ends this weekend. 1:36:13 So you want to get on that. 1:36:15 Well, this will come out after that weekend, so if you can go in your time machine. 1:36:18 Yeah, anyways, go to your time machine, come back today. 1:36:21 Yeah we'll come today, and I'll be speaking, I'm going to be doing the keynote of where the industry is going be 10 years from now. 1:36:29 So that will be a lot of fun. 1:36:30 And I will do another session on business growth. 1:36:34 I think it's really cool, you know I love events and love that you guys are thinking globally on this reach, so it will really be cool. 1:36:44 Looking forward to it. 1:36:45 All right. 1:36:45 And if they want to follow you guys on, you have your own podcast now, right? 1:36:49 Yeah. 1:36:52 Probe to practice. 1:36:53 You can find it on Apple, Spotify, YouTube. 1:36:56 Awesome. 1:36:57 Our website is amsku.com. 1:36:59 We're active on LinkedIn and Instagram. 1:37:01 Let's be clear. 1:37:02 Ryan is active. 1:37:04 Yeah. 1:37:05 I'm joking, folks. 1:37:05 It's Ryan's guy behind the scenes doing it all. 1:37:08 That's why the stuff is so great. 1:37:09 Yeah, cool. 1:37:10 All right, man. 1:37:11 Well, thanks for flying in. 1:37:12 Thanks for hopping on a plane from Phoenix and coming to LA. 1:37:15 And you caught us during a rainy day. 1:37:16 So sorry. 1:37:17 No, it's all right. 1:37:18 Just raining in Phoenix today, too. 1:37:19 Sorry. 1:37:19 He just cleans the streets around here. 1:37:21 Gets rid of all the feces. 1:37:24 It's not like that completely folks. 1:37:26 It is kind of a joke. 1:37:28 Believe me, there are parts, but I don't live there. 1:37:31 Cool man, thanks for coming in. 1:37:33 Great to see you buddy.
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