Eat Your Way To Calm: Foods That Trigger Or Tame Anxiety

Introduction to Anxiety and Nutritional Psychiatry 0:00

Well. Hello, everyone. It's so good to see you, and I'm so excited to get into talking about the most common mental health disorder out there, anxiety. And we're going to talk with one of really the leading proponents and leading experts around anxiety and food. You just heard her bio. Truly, it's such a treat to see you. It's been quite a while since we worked together. I think I was just talking to you the very one of the very first summits I did way back when the Happiness Diet was published in 2011, was with you.

You're one of the one of the first people to kind of know what I was doing and celebrate nutritional psychiatry. So I am really, really delighted to have you here in the Anxiety and Depression Solutions Summit. How are you doing? I'm doing very well, Doctor Andy, thanks for having me. And yes, that was a long time ago and there's still so much that we can share about, the connection between diet and anxiety. So I'm really thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. Well, let's get right into this.

I mean, as a nutritional psychiatrist, I've been so interested in anxiety and its relationship with food. There's so many different ways it relates. You know, often we just think about the nutrients that cause or don't cause, but so much about our eating behavior can be triggered by worried or anxious thoughts. So much of how sometimes we try and calm herself down, can can be related to to anxiety. Certainly can at times sap our diet. But I'd love to hear your perspective in your thought. The what is the relationship between diet and anxiety?

Well, it's there's a huge relationship and it's really exciting that this connection is being recognized. A lot of people still, even though there's your amazing work and there's a lot of other pioneers in this area of nutritional psychiatry, which I'll talk about in a second. And a lot of people aren't aware that anxiety can be purely biochemical, or that it can be mostly biochemical, or even if there's a psychological trauma or something else going on, there can be a biochemical aspect that is making things worse.

And they are certain foods which we'll talk about today that can trigger anxiety. Increase your fears. Of course, phobias cause panic attacks, make you feel overwhelmed, cause ruminating thoughts and affect your sleep all really closely tied to these foods that you you put in your mouth. Nutrients that you might be depleted in, foods and things that cause nutrient deficiencies. And there's this, you mentioned, and nutritional psychiatry. And for folks who don't know, there's this new field called nutritional psychiatry.

And I just love the and appreciate the, International Society for Nutritional Psychiatry Research. But I know you brought up and very much aware of, but for folks who don't know, there was a position paper published by the organization in 2015 and World Psychiatry, which is the official journal of the World Psychiatric Association. And they they publish this position statement talking about, nutritional medicine and modern psychiatry and saying had diet and nutrition, modifiable targets for the prevention of mental disorders, which includes anxiety and have a fundamental role in the promotion of mental health.

And I appreciate the fact that they talk about dietary modification, but they also in this paper mentioned,

How Diet, Nutrients, and Anxiety Interact 3:41

nutrients that can help. And they talk about, B vitamins, omega threes, curling iron, zinc, magnesium, vitamin D and amino acids, which is central to my work. And they say, although we advocate for these nutrients to be consumed as part of the diet, additional select and use of these nutraceuticals may also be justified. So we always want to think about diet first. And then there is a place for some of these nutrients, depending on the person and depending on what the unique biochemistry is. And we can use the diet and we can also use them for nutrients.

And we both know professor for these Jacka prolific Australian research, founder of the International Society of Nutritional Psychiatry, research and a trailblazer. And it's just really exciting to be able to, share her work and, and just share the importance of diet and nutrients when it comes to anxiety. It releases work in the international, society, nutrition, psychiatry, research, really two of the, you know, an organization and a person who really, has spearheaded this nutritional psychiatry movement.

And it's great to mention because I kind of assume everybody's heard about nutritional psychiatry, because when I started this work, that wasn't a word. And it's become, something kind of trendy and people are excited about it. But it's really important for you to note a lot of folks and maybe some people watching right now, haven't really thought about the connection between food and anxiety before. I see this happen all the time, really well-informed patients that I'm working with who have something like clinical depression, and they've never really thought that what they eat affects how they feel.

In the significant with the research is showing us it does, I loved it to hear is as you can think through those, those, categories that you just went through of some of the nutrients. Can you tell us, kind of do you have a rank of importance when you like, as people are listening, you said, you know, your work, for example, centers on the omega threes. Is that, like, the most important one in your mind that we think about or are all of them important? Is it a kind of a I don't know, you know, tough anxiety nutrient in your mind?

I think it depends on each individual. So they make it. Threes are definitely important. The B vitamins a lot of them are coffee factors. Certainly something that kratom and B6 and vitamin B12, they're co-factors for making some of our neurotransmitters. If someone is iron deficient, that's going to define a neurotransmitter production. So neurotransmitters, for example, like Gaba and serotonin help with, different types of anxiety. Zinc is a key one, I find, because zinc is a very common deficiency and so is magnesium.

So, vitamin D as well, is a common deficiency less so now because there's a lot more awareness about fundamental, I think, and we need good vitamin D levels in order to have good serotonin production. And then the amino acids, individual amino acids is something that I use extensively in my work. To address low levels of neurotransmitters. While we addressing all the underlying causes, I'll use Gaba and I'll use tryptophan, and I'll use a deep, deep learning. But, you know, I think it really, depends on the individual, depends on the chemistry, depends on the diet.

Depend on the stress levels and maybe genetics as well. So all of these factors play a role. And it's, we just need to figure out what's going to work for what is deficient in each person and what they actually mean. Are there ways that anxiety and anxiety symptoms affect appetite or kind of food? And eating behaviors? I see this a lot from a from a purely biochemical aspect. There are a number of mechanisms where we see anxiety and cravings go hand in hand. So with the for example, with the low Gaba type of anxiety.

And this is the kind of anxiety where you've got physical tension, you'll feel stiff and tense and your muscles, you may feel, tight in your belly, you may feel less butterflies in your belly. So it's sort of a more of a physical kind of, anxiety. I'll see that, carbohydrate cravings ramp up when you're feeling more stress. So you'll use carbs or sugar as a way to self-medicate and order to, calm yourself down. And then for some people with low Gaba, they will self-medicate with alcohol. So that's another type of craving or an addiction.

But they'll use this in order to relax and to fit in socially. And then with the low serotonin kind of anxiety. And this is more the sort of ruminations, the worrying, the obsessing, fears and phobias, the afternoon and evening cravings are what we see for sugar and carbohydrates, because this is when serotonin levels start to dip, and then you'll eat, sugar or carbs in order to calm down, in order to feel good. So those are, those are just some of the examples that actually. As you're talking, you know, I think a lot of people in the wellness world and in the nutrition world, and in the integrative world, you know, have had a lot of question about like the biochemical nature of anxiety.

And as a psychiatrist, that's always felt pretty clear to me. That's how the model in which I was trained and how I see this. And it just struck me as you're talking that, you know, you really think in terms of things like serotonin and Gaba, and I was wondering, being part of the wellness world, how is that struck you when kind of this foundational idea about depression and anxiety that they do relate to chemicals in our brain that that's attacked? I'm wondering, how does that sit with you and kind of how do you help patients understand that?

Trigger Foods: Sugar, Blood Sugar Swings, Gluten, and Caffeine 10:07

Are you referring to the serotonin hypothesis being attacked and saying that it's not related to know serotonin? I think, we need to, recognize that for some people, the anxiety can be related to low serotonin, but also recognize that there are many underlying causes. And this is just one cause. I don't think we want to just say it's all low serotonin. I know that's certainly been what's you know, what's what the message is being for a long time when it comes to depression that it's just low serotonin.

And then there's, saying, well, it's not low serotonin. And so I think we need to recognize that just like we just talked about the which nutrients do we use, you know, for each specific person, low serotonin could be a factor. And I see it to be, a common deficiency in a lot of people. But they could be like Gaba. They could be infections that are contributing to the anxiety. They could be toxins, they could be inflammation, it could be the gut. So there's a lot of other underlying root causes that we need to consider when it comes to some of the mechanisms that, you know, contributing to this biochemical, yeah, root causes.

You know, trees are talking. I also I hope people hear the hopefulness. I think sometimes, you know, so many different things that contribute if you're having symptoms, with anxiety or depression and, you know, it can sound like there's a lot to do or a lot to check off, but I hear a lot of hopefulness in what you're saying, that, you know, a lot of different factors contribute. Some are new, like the microbiome. I also like how you're differentiating the types of worry if you're scared about, going into the classroom or public speaking, that's different than if you have a ruminative worry, you know, an idea you can't get out of your head or an obsessive worry.

You know, which is a whole, you know, kind of different than, other types of anxiety. For example, if you have, more panic, or a specific phobia. And so really, being very clear with yourself and kind of the types of anxiety that you're having, there's also where it's great to talk to a mental health professional, kind of, you know, I mean, a lot of patients who describe their anxiety and experience it in a certain way. And then as I'm sitting with them, you know, it seems a little different to me in terms of some of the triggers or some of the causes or some things that people, maybe hadn't been asked about.

So, I really appreciate all that, and what you're sharing and how you're asking us to really, be circumspect or thinking about the symptom of anxiety. It's not as simple as, you know, one neurotransmitter or it's not as simple as, you know, one bad trigger food. But these are things that we want to consider and think about when we're being circumspect about anxiety. Oh. I was wondering if there are specific foods. I mean, there's so much that we're seeing about ultra processed foods and it's linked to depression.

We've seen so much about dietary pattern and the more modern or more kind of processed food or Western dietary pattern has actually, Felice Jack is first paper came out the Green Journal, the American Journal of Psychiatry, the first ever nutritional psychiatry paper. It was a graduate thesis. It was a correlational study looking at a Western dietary pattern. But man on the headlines is how a Western territory pattern was, correlated with an increased risk of depression. So also interesting in that study, there was also an increased risk of anxiety disorders with a Western dietary pattern.

But, I'm curious about, the foods that you see most commonly triggering anxiety. And I'm particularly interested in the ultra processed foods, these new modern foods that are kind of infiltrated most people's diets. And which of those are the worst culprits? Yes. And, I'm glad you quoted, Professor Decker's, paper. That was, one of the, articles, one of the papers that I actually quoted in my book when it came out, because it was that it was so profound and it was so exciting to see that there was research around this.

And she's since gone on to publish many, many papers with different populations. And this was, I think, that what that one was with women in Australia. She went on and did a similar, you know, study on, children and then different population groups in different countries. So it's really exciting that she's looked at junk food and what she calls a traditional diet. So, you know, the junk food is ultra processed. I like you calling it junk food. I think Felice, we both she'd want us to call it junk food or garbage food.

I mean, she's, you know, she's, I like her fiery ness and her, she's she's very brave. You know, I think a lot of us are a little. Maybe, I don't know when, say, we pull punches, but I just. I like the way that Felice talks about processed food and large food companies and very explicit terms, and holding them culpable that these aren't really foods that are going to help our health or our mental health. Right, right. And and she, she, she calls it, a traditional diet which, which we could call a whole foods, real foods, quality, you know, quality foods.

So the, the import of that junk food or ultra processed meat is the sugar. So when you consuming a lot of sugary foods, firstly it fills you up so you're less likely to eat more nutrient dense foods. But that sugar will deplete some of the same nutrients that we need to make a neurotransmitter. I will say I know it it we're burning handles and anytime you burn fuels, you know you're burning, you're making energy, but you're also creating a lot of waste products. And the thing about these simple sugars, is they don't come with any of the nutrients that help us deal with the processing of the energy or the processing of the waste products.

And it's just kind of a hint, you know, there like, I think about their takers, you know, they can't these foods can't make it on their own. And I think the foods that you tend to recommend and we'll get to those after we talk about trigger foods, you know, they're foods that come with a lot. They bring a lot to the table. You know, they're here to kind of contribute to your body. They've got some extra nutrients that can lend into the fight. And I really like that about them, as opposed to these processed foods where it's like, you know, they're all showing up like, anybody have any zinc to help me deal with myself?

And it's just, you know, it's not it's not, you know, it's not who you want to your party, right? You want to bring to your party somebody who's going to show up at the potluck with something delicious and nutrient dense. That they've made this love. And I kind of I think about that as all the food to read, but I'm cutting you off today that you're telling us a little bit about some of the trigger foods, high sugar foods, lots of sugar, and these ultra processed foods. Tell us a little bit more of what are on the list for things we need to look out for in our diet.

That could be triggering anxiety. Yes, I've got another one. Another few I wanted to add, but just going back to the whole sugar thing is the sugar aspect is that we self-medicate to feel calm, to feel comforted, to feel rewarded, to feel happy. So if we've got like a turbo, if we've got low serotonin, we're using that that, that sugar as junk food, as a, as a treat, as a reward to make us feel good. So it's, it's and then that makes things work. So we do want to always mention that and then tied into the sugar is blood sugar swings.

So if we are eating sugary foods, certainly having a sugary fruit or carbohydrate at breakfast time, that's going to give us a spike in blood sugar, and then we're going to get a crash and then we're going to want more sugar, and then we're going to spike in blood sugar in a crash. So that's going to give us this rollercoaster of anxiety focus issues, fatigue issues and stuff. You know, stress, the adrenals and causes nutrient deficiencies. So an important thing is to have quality protein, healthy fats at breakfast that's going to prevent that those blood sugar swings.

But then the other thing is that we don't want to forget about is some of the food sensitivities that are very common. Triggers for anxiety. And one of them is gluten. And we often think about gluten affecting the gut, causing leaky gut or causing constipation or diarrhea. But there's a there's plenty of research showing it can trigger anxiety, social anxiety, even depression and schizophrenia. So this is bread cookies, pasta. And for many people it's very challenging to quit. I actually had one client and she was in her 40s and she was, she said quitting bread was more difficult to quit than when she had to quit cocaine and that she was addicted to 20.

So these these gluten muffins, which, appeared like compounds found in gluten when you start digesting it, these compounds are produced and that makes it very addicting. And I mentioned that by the amino acids, which is the main focus of my work. And that can help break the addiction. So these diet changes are much easier to make. Now some people can just give up sugar. They can just give up gluten using willpower. But for some people they need the amino acids so they don't have to use willpower.

And they don't have to this otherwise. So I used to was. A gluten sensitivity. So these gluten people had some who had gluten sensitivity, anxiety rates for sort of 75 plus percent. And then when they adopted a gluten free diet, it dropped down to, the same rates as the control group. And so, you know, certainly those people with those sensitivities, you know, it's one of the great things with more awareness and more testing, it's something that more people are aware of. But even people who have frank celiac disease and autoimmune disease to gluten, half of the people with that disease don't even know about it.

And so that can be a huge game changer. What are some of the other culprits on your list really? Caffeine. And that's a tough one. Yeah, a lot of my clients will say, I'll give up sugar. I'll give up, bread and cookies, but don't take my caffeine away. Don't take my coffee away. I need it to try. It's my it's a ritual. And it's something that I like to do in the morning on my own. It's really, something that I can't give up. And there are some, individuals that are more susceptible. There's a gene swap, one and two that determines how fast we metabolize coffee.

So for some people, and little bit of coffee is just a huge trigger, for anxiety. And actually, there was a study done in 1989. It was a very small study, but the the, people in the study had anxiety, generalized anxiety and panic disorder. None had benefited from medication or therapy. They were only consuming one and a half to three and a half cups of coffee a day. But within a week of stopping the coffee, the anxiety disappeared. So I see this all the time. Is no point in making all these other wonderful changes.

I'm going to talk about some foods that are really beneficial. If if caffeine is a trigger for you, then you need to think about, giving up caffeine. And you can drink tea, you can drink camomile tea. There's a lot of wonderful, herbal teas, that, you know, great to drink, and you're not getting this, caffeine fix. And I'm just talking about coffee here. But when we're talking about caffeine, we need to think about the double whammy. When you're drinking a soda, you're getting the sugar, and you're also getting the. It's great.

And I think also folks, listening, exploring. I've had periods where I drink decaf, if you like all those polyphenols that you get in your coffee, you can go to something that's decaffeinated. There are a lot of wonderful products now that are doing the third caf or half caf, you know, where the they're, you can kind of dial in the caffeine a little bit or wean yourself off. And then, as Trudy mentioned, all kinds of wonderful teas, periods in my life where I've gotten off coffee for whatever reason, I've got a real nice Earl gray addiction to replace it.

And, you know, maybe that's not perfect. And this is I'm still taking in some caffeine, but I really found it was less caffeine and it helped. And, I love your recommendations that, you know, if you're a caffeine sensitive person, truly, is there a way if you know someone like me, I've been a bit treated for coffee for a long time. I, you know, I think a lot of physicians are, I start my day. I don't think about it as a treat. I just kind of. It's, coffee with some half and a half is my first caloric intake, and.

And usually the only thing I eat for, I don't know, 3 or 4 hours. A couple hours maybe. Is there a week for. So we looking at, you know, if it is coffee were caffeine sensitive. We're going to notice maybe more anxiety or panic. We're kind of worried symptoms like in that hour after we drink our caffeinated beverage. Or is it something that you see in your client shows up at different times of the day, or kind of, how do we know? That the for most people, I have found that it's pretty soon after the caffeine intake, they're feeling, agitated, maybe a pounding heart, maybe a little bit restless.

Foods That Support Anxiety Recovery 23:58

And for some people they'll say, I only have one cup or only have two cups, and I only have it for, for for before noon. And I'm still anxious in the afternoon and I still can't sleep. And they're not convinced that stopping it will make a difference. But when they do, they do notice a difference. So even having it in the morning can affect your sleep. Even having it early in the day does seem to trigger anxiety later in the day for some people. So again, Doctor Ames, yeah, I think it's very, individualized, as to and how it impacts people.

Will thank you for that. But let's talk about some of the solutions, some of your favorite foods I'm really interested in that. You see, helping patients, with anxiety. And why do you recommend them? What are some of the the top the top food prescriptions you see, on your prescription pad? Well, obviously, we've got to just recap and say the real foods that we were talking about when it comes to their work. Professor, please check it. So that's just as a that saying. But when we honing in on some of those real foods, a big one is quality animal protein.

I'm a big fan of grass fed red meat, for example. What it's going to do, it's the amino acids, providing the building blocks of protein and making neurotransmitters. Red meat is a great source of zinc. It's a great source of iron. Right? Source of omega three is a lot of people just think of oily fish as being a source of omega threes. But grass fed red meat does have, mega threes. And we talked about those nutrients earlier. Co-Factors for making, neurotransmitters. The other thing about, animal protein and having it first thing in the morning is that it's helping to, helping with blood sugar stability.

So I'll have my clients and have protein at breakfast, and it could be a dinner for breakfast, you know, leftovers stew. It could be, lamb steak. It could be eggs. Obviously. Pastured eggs are going to be a better choice. It could be, chicken broth, you know, leftover dinners. Perfect. Or it could be, you know, some sort of breakfast that's made, and having that protein first thing in the morning sets you up for the rest of the day and is providing all of these beautiful nutrients that I'm talking about.

The important thing, Doctor Ramsay is with, protein. We need to make sure that is good, not match point. And eating this, good quality protein. If we're not able to break down the, you know, break down, the amino acids into, the, you know, the constituents that we need for making neurotransmitters and getting access to those nutrients. So for some people, we need to think about, you know, what's the what's going on in the gut? Do they have are they producing enough hydrochloric acid? Do they have enough protease?

Do they have enough of these other enzymes. But certainly quality animal protein. I'm a big fan of and that also includes, the, you know, the well recognized source of omega threes like wild salmon, sardines. I, I grew up in South Africa, and we used to have a sardine run off the coast every year. And I'm a big fan of. What's eating a sardine run with sardines. If you go up the coast to get press sardines. The sardines, went up, went up the, the coast of the, the east, the east coast of South Africa.

And they beached themselves on the beach. So you can actually, they'll have, the media out with the helicopters telling you where the sardines are going to beach. And you all, everyone goes to the beach and all the sardines come in to the beach, and you just catch sardines and buckets and your, clothing. And it's just, a real fun time. And it's a great. It's just a crazy scene to see. Trudy, will you take me, like sardine beaching? I mean, I've never even heard of this. It sounds a little bit like a fever dream to me.

The idea that I could be out with you and lots of people grabbing sardines off the beach, you just, like, cook them right there on the beach. Like they get some fires going. Yeah, we have, we in South Africa, barbecue is called a private place. And you'll have a you'll put the, the the grill on the coals or the wood and you'll make sardines and just enjoy the sunsets and get out to nature. It's just I mean. That sounds absolutely amazing. And I think it's also such a wonderful, piece of culture to share with us and one of the, pieces of nutritional psychiatry in the frameworks that we've proposed in our clinician training and in my books, is really asking clinicians to think about the cultures and cultures of origin and traditions that people love.

If I were working with Trudy, this drew would light me up so much as a clinician. And if she were depressed or anxious and and let's say, hadn't been eating sardines, you can appreciate how a clinician thoughtfully getting excited and encouraging sardine consumption gets her all these amazing nutrients. You know, get the calcium. One of the top sources of calcium, is, sardines. And anchovies, all those little small bones, all the major three fats. We've been talking about all of this. B vitamins and iodine, of course, this is a seafood and all the other nutrients.

And sardines. She got all those. But she'd also get this taste of, her upbringing and taste of something that her country, you know, is amazing at in terms of, like, celebrating sardines, having a big beach party. And so it's one of those things in your life is you're thinking about your symptoms of anxiety and depression. You're wondering kind of what what are these lessons help which of these, kind of foods should I focus on? You know, I always ask people to look to, your past and your family's past and and kind of your micro culture.

You know, I don't think about sardines as a huge South African food because I don't know anything about South African food. But if I were working with Trudy as a client, and as you're thinking about your health, it's such an important. You can see it's such an important and cool piece of her nutritional psychiatry history. If you take take it in a in a proper way. So think that what a what a cool thing. So it's hard to go off on certain tangent. There, but it is one of those foods that I certainly hope the summit helps you eat more of.

We've been talking about some red meat, some sardines, and oily fatty fishes. I think we're both fans. Besides the beach. Fresh sardines. These are great anchovies and sardines to get tinned because they're fresh. She keeps them. You know, they say they stay, or they're, canned fresh. So you don't have to worry about them spoiling, very economical and just easy to add into a to a pasta, you know, to, a salad, all kinds of ways. So what else besides these two protein sources do you like, friend? Say it is fruity.

I've got another one that I'm going to say, Doctor Ramsey. But I just love the fact that she's so excited about this idea. And it is. It's just so interesting. I want to add another little tidbit about that is there's so many sardines at a court that they're actually used in pet food. So the pets, the cats and dogs in South Africa are very well nourished because they're getting a lot of sardines as well. So there's another little, little aspect to it, which I think is. It's a it's also one of that.

It's very interesting. It's, you know, not only good for us, it's one of those things we don't think about a lot, but the pet food industry is a huge industry, and there's been a lot of, I think just like with human food, there's been a lot of concerns. We love our pets. We want to feed them healthy stuff. That's not what's in a lot of that food. So it's, yeah. So let's talk about some of your favorite plants for anxiety. Well, I was going to just mention fermented foods, and that's plants because it's, sauerkraut.

So yeah, let's talk about a combination. So, sauerkraut, is, wonderful, because it's providing those, probiotics for gut health. And we know about the gut brain connection. Yogurt, if dairy is tolerated as well. And I just, I remember the first time I heard the term psycho biotic. I thought, oh, that's interesting. And, and I, you know, Doctor Ted Dunn, and as well I had the, opportunity of interviewing him on one of my summits as well. He's a professor of psychiatry in Ireland, and he published a paper, I think it was around 2011 or 12 calling it, called the papers called psycho, about a novel class of psycho choking.

And for for anyone who doesn't know what a psycho biotic is, it's a in the paper, he writes about it being a live organism that, when ingested in adequate amounts, produces health benefits in patients suffering from psychiatric illness, which could include anxiety as well. So the, the, paper goes on to say it produces and delivers neuroprotective substances such as gamma amino acid, which is Gaba, and serotonin, which act on the gut brain axis. And he, him and his team, as you know, doctor. And they've gone on to publish multiple papers on psycho biotic.

So I'm a big fan of fermented foods, like sauerkraut. And they, I think they, I have a big role to play in anyone's diet and certainly in the diet of individuals who have anxiety. Yeah. This is, really one of the the big, shifts in my clinical practice. There's more enthusiasm and incitement because oftentimes that I have when I'm talking about fermented foods, especially with patients with anxiety, seems like the data really, anxiety, depression and one, say, Romanian bipolar disorder. That was in a fermented foods.

It was a probiotics, but, you know, really interesting and intriguing notion that one of the ways to kind of, shift, symptoms of anxiety is through shifting the diversity of the microbiome. So that's a great food category. I love that one. So we've got some good animal proteins, like healthy grass fed beef. We've got some oily fish. We got some fermented foods. Bring us home with some some delicious plants. What are your favorites. I love, non-starchy vegetables such as cauliflower, broccoli, asparagus you name it.

Anything that's organic, preferably. Because if it's not, you're going to be it's you're going to have the issue with the pesticides, which, not, going to do you any favors. So all of these, healthy, vegetables should be part of the diet as well. And I like to personally. And what I recommend to my client is find a way that you like to enjoy vegetables. Personally, I like to steam them with, lots of butter. They can be roasted with olive oil as well. That can be made into a soup and blended up. So there's many ways to enjoy.

You know, I really appreciate you mentioning that, truly. And I'm sure people listening also appreciate it as often as I do. You like cauliflower? You know, it's like, that's a good like it's one thing and. Oh, are you talking about raw cauliflower? Are you talking like, sauteed or are you talking about, cauliflower steak? Are you making a puree or a soup? You know, there's there's so many different ways to make an a pizza with a cauliflower crust. And so really, you know, both the diversity of plants that we eat, but also working a little bit on your skills and I'd say your enjoyment in for preparing vegetables in a variety of different ways.

I take a lot of pleasure in my kale game, you know, I can make it a lot of different ways for you. I've worked on that over the years. And so, I think it's a great piece of encouragement. Well, if you came into this conversation with any question of how diet and anxiety are related, I hope you've gotten a little mini masterclass here from Trudy Scott along with this conversation, Trudy is generally given some wonderful free resources for the summit, the types of resources she uses with her clients who are struggling with symptoms of anxiety, certainly, and healing the modern brain.

This is really one of the ways that we feel Westar, we feel that mental fitness and and lifestyle interventions really is foundational to things like, taking care of worry and anxiety. And thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge, everybody. It's been a wonderful, wonderful, episode. And I appreciate so much your time is attention. I ask you the same question at the end of every one of these, which is, I hope that one of the things that stuck out with you, my request that's either cost of admission, in my opinion, is that you do something specifically with each one of these talks.

So something whether maybe it's Trudy mentioned asparagus and you thought, yum, I haven't had those for a while. Or maybe there's something about the microbiome or the way that Trudy, with all of her knowledge about anxiety and food, that you kind of excited about making some sauerkraut. Whatever struck you, it's my request that you do something about it. We know that awareness helps us, but awareness doesn't do anything unless we turn into action. And that's my request of you, everyone. I'll see you in the next talk.

Thank you so much for being with us with for the Anxiety and Depression Solutions Summit, I'm Doctor Drew Ramsey. I'll see you next time.