Exploring Sexuality, Trauma Healing & Intimacy

Podcast Intro and Guest Introduction 0:00

In the inner voice. A heartfelt chat with Doctor Fujino. I think when you were talking about the cultural aspect, and I love how you said that sex is a skill and it really is. And if you think of the old traditions, like if you think of the Indian tradition and the Chinese tradition, they had manuals on how to have a good sex life. And unfortunately, we lost this. I mean, the only very quick manual that we have is pornography. And that's brought a lot of this service to having, meaningful sex life because people are not like, you know, like in the videos from this kind of websites.

And women are sometimes expected to perform like there would be, oh, you know, like from the website and also men expect themselves to be like porn. After introducing a powerful new update from the Fujian app. Now, with flexible subscription plans to fit your journey monthly, quarterly or yearly. Our new AI driven onboarding customizes your path to feeling better, faster and enjoy a refreshed experience with stunning 3D interactive videos. Update now. Empower your inner voice with fusion. Download today.

Welcome to The Inner Voice, a heartfelt chat podcast. I'm Doctor Fu jazzy. I'm a psychotherapist and author and the founder of the International Awareness Integration Institute. Today I will be talking to Doctor Coraline Nigeria. She is an integrative psychotherapist, a supervisor, and a trainer, and a co-founder of the Romanian Association of Integrative Psychotherapy with extensive expertise in trauma work. She holds a PhD, and she specializes in methods like somatic experiencing, eMDR and, tension and trauma releasing exercises and focusing on somatic cognitive approaches to healing.

Doctor Coralie. Next year, YAG has completed advanced studies with recognized institutions across Europe and USA, reflecting her commitment to excellence as a trainer and a mentor. Doctor Curie teachers future psychotherapies, both integrative psychotherapy and trauma informed care, integrating neuroscience, cognitive therapy, and mindfulness to address mental health challenges holistically. She actively contributes to a professional community, serving on several working communities within the European Association of Integrative Psychotherapy, ensuring quality standards and psychotherapy training across Europe.

I've had the pleasure of of meeting her in person. I was there in Romania, two years ago. Then we went to Dubai and we were in conferences. She is an, excellent teacher as a speaker, a lecturer, with all of that, I just said, guess what? We're going to be talking today. Yes, we're going to be talking about sexuality. And how do you, enliven the energy and the vitality of, sexuality within, for you and in your relationships and in partnership? I really enjoy her conversations. I always learn from her.

It's a combination of science and delicate ness and just human reality all put in together. So I hope that you enjoy our conversation as much as I have now. Be sure to subscribe to my podcast, to this podcast, and my YouTube channel, and connect with me through my website fusion zen.com or any of my social media platforms and share your thoughts with me. I'd love to hear from you. So without further ado, here is Doctor Cora. Lena here. Listen up. If you want to promote your personal growth and self awareness.

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Why Sexuality Became a Therapy Focus 5:00

in human development, is your step by step guide to raising a healthy child. Prepare for a culturally integrated world with supporting and parenting infants to adolescents, using the latest evidence based scientific research on parenting. What are your copy on Amazon now? Oh my God, I'm so excited to have Doctor Paulina Kubiak with me. All the way from Romania. Hi. Hi. Thank you for inviting me. I'm so excited as well. Well, yes. I mean, I was invited to come to your university. Then we went and presented in Dubai, and, we're here together.

Although, you know, we're in two countries at this point, and I hope that, I'm so excited about the continuation of, our, you know, relationship together and moving and growing. And I always learn from you, and I know that when, both presentations when I was in Romania and we were in Dubai, that, not only, you know, expertise is about working with trauma, but also you've chosen your expertise and what you teach in the area of sexuality. Why did you choose that topic? Why is it important for you?

Well, it's a funny story, actually. I found myself in a period in my private practice where I had a lot of my clients bring up the subject of sexuality. So I actually found myself having a lot of therapies around this subject. People were either wanting to have better communication around sexuality with their partners. They sometimes wanted to try new things. Sometimes they didn't have orgasms, sometimes they didn't have a fulfilling sex life. So I actually I found myself talking about this a lot on many months.

And also my trainees, started asking me if I would like to maybe talk some more publicly, publicly about this area. So actually, sexuality came as a passion in psychotherapy for me. After trauma. So because I was talking about this so much, I realized that there's a need for women and for men and for people in general to know more about the subject and to talk about it without shame, because in Romania at least, it still holds a bit of a taboo around it sometimes. So, actually, when I decided to talk about it, I did it because it felt like there's a need for this subject to be approached from a psychotherapeutic point of view.

Absolutely. I think this is a subject that not only Romania, I think everywhere around the world there is, and uncomfortable ness. So to talk about it, I know in the public there's a taboo. But even among couples, right. Even among friends, I think there is an embarrassment around, the conversation. So, the some of it has to do with shame. I know that especially when we have worked with trauma, the trauma really affects, your sexuality, because within the sexuality, you have to allow yourself to feel vulnerable and safe.

And many times when we've gone through trauma, we've lost that sense of safety. And to have the ability to bring it back to our self where we can be powerful while we can be vulnerable, is something that is very important and when I've sat in your conferences and I've heard you, part of what I've always seen is this element of delicate ness that you bring into this space where the person can really be delicate with themselves, like experience their power into their vulnerability, as they're allowing themselves to be in that space while, you know, then they go into, this, this space of, let's say, sexuality.

So, yes, absolutely. It's important to talk about it. And first, it's almost like how to be with yourself as a sexual being beyond how you, you know, create this relationship with others. Can you share a little bit about that? Yes. Thank you for saying this. And thank you for like, bringing up the delicacy also, because I think when we think about sexuality, we think about different cultures. People have different spiritual beliefs around sexuality. So that's also very important. And what I always teach my clients and my students is that a good sexual relationship

Trauma, Shame, and Cultural Taboos 10:00

starts with the relationship we have, we have with ourselves. So we have to always look at the beliefs that we grew up around sex in childhood, because that's where a lot of the shame comes from. Some people, exactly like you said, experienced sexual trauma. And sometimes people say, oh, I haven't experienced sexual trauma because I've never been abused. But sexual trauma doesn't mean it has to be like a full blown sexual abuse. Sometimes it's even people touching us inappropriately in a club. Maybe when you're in adolescence, you know, that would come under sexual trauma or having somebody hit on us, and we put a boundary and then they would not accept it.

And that us, you know, it doesn't have to be this big idea like trauma with a big team. And people don't take this little moments in their sexual development as places where they froze themselves emotionally and in their body. And of course, when you want to open up sexually, you need to be in contact with your body again. And I love how you brought safety in, because safety first begins in relationship with ourselves and then in relationship with our partner. So first, I always invite people to think about the things that they feel about, want their likes and dislikes and getting back into contact with their sensations, you know?

And sometimes people unfortunately don't have a good sex life because they're just not in contact with their body. Like sex becomes this very mechanical thing. It becomes like something you have to do, especially in long marriages. Is it it it loses its playfulness, you know, like the playfulness, the curiosity that we experience in the first 3 to 6 months of a relationship. And people eventually just stop having it all together, like they don't prioritize it so much anymore. You know, as much. I also think that, we do get traumatized also by our culture is not just a sexual activity.

I think there is so much of, conversation and taboo within, the culture that shows up. And I think a lot more, I can't even say a lot more. I could say different taboos that show up for men and the way they have to perform. And, you know, size matters and who they are and all of it. And then versus the taboos that gets created with, with women, you know, about celibacy or are they a virgin or not? Do they have the, ability to, you know, and how many men they were with or do they know how to perform or not?

So there's so much that comes in, depending on the culture that also traumatizes people before they even look at the skills. And I think another thing that I've seen culturally, is that people don't necessarily think they should get skilled in this. This is almost an area that people expect themselves, that innately they should perform well. Although, you know, on a minor level, I think, you know, evolutionary behavior has given us just, you know, a couple of behaviors to be able to create and procreate.

But that is very minimal in to the bigger concept of people being in relationships, being in long term relationships for 30 and 40 years while their body keeps changing. And all of these pieces takes, intentional skill building. And I think the embarrassment, the shame that shows up around wanting to even learn the skills or where do people even go to learn the skills because it's such a hodgepodge and, they can't really talk about it. And and then so I think these the cultural conversations that are around sexuality really dampens and it's paradoxical to the desire, and, you know, the normalcy of what a person is going to go because people usually have the ability to have sex, you know, or my own age, 12 all the way to the 70s.

So these are long years with our bodies constantly changing, our desires changing. What are your thoughts around that? Well, I was thinking while you were talking that you brought so many amazing ideas that we can unpack. I think when you were talking about the cultural aspect, and I love how you said that sex is a skill and it really is. And if you think of the old traditions, like if you think of the Indian tradition

Sex as a Skill and the Role of Desire 15:00

and the Chinese tradition, they had manuals on how to have a good sex life and unfortunately we lost this. I mean, the only very quick manual that we have is pornography, and that's brought a lot of this service to having, meaningful sex life because people are not like, you know, like in the videos from this kind of websites and women are sometimes expected to perform like there would be, oh, you know, like from the websites. And also men express themselves to be like porn actors. So actually what I've seen is that when people start to explore their sexuality, even if they're in their 30s or 40s or 50s, it's like they have to learn a new way of being with themselves and with their partner.

And it's a whole nother level of vulnerability and of intimacy that opens up. And I think that it's very important that first we drop all of this expectations of how we should be, what we should live, what our mother and father told us that we should enjoy. And rather start investing ourselves with the power that we are the ones who decide what we like, what we don't like, what we enjoy, what we don't enjoy. And I think it's so beautiful that you brought up the way that we change because there's one thing when you're when you're 18, you know, like when you're in your teenage years and then you start growing and then you're in your 30s and then you start having children and that changes a lot, the sexual and the intimacy.

And then you have then we, like women, start going into menopause and then again our bodies shift. So I think that people don't realize how important, you know, this piece of being human is. And it's quite a pity because you use the word desire. And I think that when it comes to sexuality, desire is a very special kind of energy. And sometimes people are very afraid of it. And if you think about how you bring desire in other areas of your life, like when your desire is something like when you desire a different job or your desire to have, more money, or your desire to learn a new skill, or to bring a new hobby or a certain lifestyle, you know, desire is very potent as a as an energy.

And it's amazing when people open up sexually. Feeling this desire doesn't necessarily mean that you go and you have sex with everybody, but just learning to be in this fire in itself brings us back into connection with the energy of life. And for me, this is the magic. This is where the real magic happens. And this is where, like the biggest and the most beautiful part of sexual healing, you know, happens when you learn to, like, really relax into your into this energy that you feel in your body.

It's interesting because you were sharing this. I was, the comparison that you made, which is when people have desire for something that they get motivated in to action and move forward with all of it. And obviously they also have to make a decision about, you know, the integrity of what they're doing, how they're doing it, and looking at all the angles when it comes to desires that happens within sexuality. I think that people hold themselves back because it's as if if they gave in to the desires that somehow they will put themselves in, concepts of out of integrity, or that they have to do this in hiding.

This is not something that they can do publicly and be out. Because the same thing that there's a stigma and a shame around, the concept of sexuality and being out there where if you have a desire to grow, to earn, you know, finances, to do all of that, it's a part of you what you show, you know, you buy the houses and so you get these, your career goes up and you show, you feel proud that you have a desire and you go and sustain it. And it's completely the other way with sexuality. If you have the desire and you act on it, it has to be private.

It has to be something that people don't talk about. So although you're motivated, but the motivation is always somehow associated with shame and guilt. Yes. Because this is how we are brought up, you know, like it's

Keeping Intimacy Alive in Long-Term Relationships 20:00

like it's hundreds of years of conditioning. And if you look also how religion played a role in this, you know, it's so it's so sad what happened to sexuality. Because even if you're religious beliefs are around a stable couple and not having affairs, this doesn't mean that you cannot have a beautiful sexual sex life with your partner. And what I've found is that people are ashamed to share fantasies with their partner as if they're not allowed to think about this or they're not allowed to, imagine this.

And it doesn't mean that if you bring fantasies in your couple's relationship, you have to act on everything. You don't have to act on all your fantasies, but all the talks that people have around sexuality with their partners actually deepens intimacy if they are, expressed in a space where there's vulnerability and non-judgment like if you go and you express your your desires and your fantasies to your partner and they look at you like, oh my God, no, like, this is shameful. Of course you're not going to feel safe.

But if both partners as a team create an environment where they safety exactly like you said before, and where they can be nonjudgmental to each other and see how they can enact some of those fantasies, then that's wonderful, because when people start accessing this beautiful part of like being human and they have they build a great sex line because I think exactly like you build a relationship and have communication, you also need to invest energy and build a great sex life. There's so much dopamine that you can get, like there are so many benefits that you give and that there are going to support your everyday life because you're always feeling endorphins and dopamine and you're happy and you feel full and satisfied, and you feel desires by your partner.

And there's playfulness in your life because there's a level of always teasing each other or flirting or sending messages, you know? So there's so many benefits and people unfortunately don't invest energy in them. They like shove it under the rug and don't look at it that is so true because especially with long term relationships, that you know, the beginning of the phase of the relationship, the honeymoon phase, it has a it really rides a lot on the sexual energy, the flirtatious ness. And then as people kind of get, you know, into their relationship and the act itself becomes mundane and they move.

But they also, like you said, dampen or come off, with the energy is as if the energy of sexuality was only being utilized for, a hunt, you know, for the capturing of the, of the relationship versus it is a vital energy that can be utilized every day in your relationship with integrity being, you know, kind of bring the playfulness, and bring that zest of the lover and good throughout your life, which, you know, it also includes partnership, parenting and all of the other pieces that show up in your marriage or your long term relationships.

But it is it's almost like they kill off the side and, then, you know, their kids get grow up and then suddenly they feel, very separated with each other because that piece was in there and sometimes when they connect back with their sexuality, the desire comes in and goes after hunting another person versus hunting their own mate, which if they've been together for such a long time. So not only it's beneficial to keep this, it's kind of dangerous when you dance with it in yourself. Exactly. Because we form attachment, so we attach to the other person, and then we imagine that the other person is ours.

We start sometimes to objectify it. We treat it like would the other person like an expansion? We don't end up really seeing them. And when people come to court to do couples therapy with me and I tell them, well, you have to date again and they'll like, you know, like, but and I tell them, you know, I have to schedule it and you have to schedule dating and sex in your schedule. But and then they say, and like this happens to everybody, like 100%. There's no one couple I've had in therapy who didn't say the same exact thing.

And they say, yes. But when we were younger, when we were dating, we didn't have to do this.

Self-Desire, Confidence, and Communication 25:00

And I said, yeah, you did. You did scheduled dates, didn't you? Like you would schedule a date and you would get all prepped up and you knew you were going to have sex, and you went there in a certain kind of energy. Why wouldn't you put it in the schedule now? Because now it feels like a to do, you know, it feels like scheduling, but it takes a bit of time, you know, to do it until you start getting the wheels greasy again and then you start knowing each other again. And it also comes down to how you decide to view your partner.

Like if you are still curious about your partner, you want to know who they've become in the last year you know and not take them for granted. Like this person who is always going to be here in the house and not end up like roommates, but rather like keep the spark going. Yeah. What have you noticed also that there is this concept of, you know, the single word sexuality versus couple for a lot of couples when they move in together and they, you know, form, whether it's a marriage or cohabitation or something that the, the way that they act with each other differs from the sexuality that, you know, or the motivation or the energy they had before.

There is a difference between, let's say, the beginning hunting energy of sexuality that goes after and hunts versus where we become a little bit more closer, where we fall in love, where we have that attachment, there's a different energy into that sexuality. Can you share a little bit between how it feels between the two, and then what can we do in order to kind of prep both of them versus lose one, and just move to the other? Yeah. What a great question. I always view sexuality in a couple, like a flame when you when you, you know, when you're in the hunting season, there's this big bonfire, you know, like, it's very hot.

And then when you come closer, it dampens. And I think that it's very important that couples decide together that they're going to keep the flame up. So it's very important for partners to know how to, find their own harmony between closeness and distance, closeness and distance. I always tell my clients that is very important that they have a together life, but also a bit of a separate life. Like they have their own hobbies. They all go out with their own friends, like go in the weekends with the girls, you know.

And this brings up desire again. Also, maybe, if they have kids going just for a weekend away from the kids in a romantic getaway. And, you know, these are such simple tricks and they save so much. Unfortunately, people don't usually do them. And, you know, like there's this very little creatures that if you do in the long run, they're they're going to be so beneficial. And what I've also found out is that people don't give it to other emotional fuel. We're so good at desiring a partner and talking so beautifully to them in the first few months of the relationship.

Like we flirt with them, we compliment them, we tell them, oh, I desire you so much. I miss you so much. And then as we go grow, closer together, we stop doing that because we did it in the first three months. So what's the point of doing it for the rest of our lives? Like it's three months? It's enough. But actually, I think this is part of the responsibility that each of the partners need to take to keep complimenting the other person, to keep seem to keep making the other person feel seen and desired.

And if you're focus as a person in a relationship, will be on making the other person feel desired and both of the partners are going to have this focus, then it's going to be very easy to maintain an active sex life together. So we started to share, around the conversation of how do you keep your own flame in your body? How do you take care of yourself? How do you create sexual hygiene for yourself? First. So let's start with that. If you want to, elaborate and give a little bit of tips between and to also say whether you see this, equally among genders or is it different

Eroticism, Pleasure, and Normalizing Sexuality 30:00

for women in the way that they take care of themselves in sexuality versus men? You know, actually, I think that it's there's not a difference between the genders, like men are as vulnerable as us. This is what I found out. And I think that, of course, is very nice to take care of our physical appearance, like take care of our body, treat our body with care and love and respect. But one of the the tips that I do myself and I also like share with my clients is flirt with yourself like sitting in the mirror in the morning and just do a little flirting with yourself.

Like give yourself a little wink in the morning or make yourself a compliment. Or send yourself a love letter from time to time, even if you're in a relationship. Because sometimes, and this is going to bring us a bit to toxic relationships, sometimes we choose relationships because we have an intense need to feel desired and special, and this is how people end up in narcissistic relationships or relationships with people who are toxic. And I think it's so, mature in a way. And it's so like we become very autonomous when we give to ourselves.

It doesn't mean that, like, there's always going to be space to feel desire. Nobody is going to say, oh, I desire myself so much. I'm good. Please don't, don't desire me anymore, you know? But of course, everybody will will, you know, like you can feel your car from the outside as well. But there's such a magnetism in how you carry yourself throughout the day. When you desire yourself, when you find yourself beautiful, when you find yourself sexy and sensual and magnetic, and it applies to both genders, it's not going to turn us, you know, like, narcissistic and like we're going to be like number one everywhere.

Of course, there's space for other people to be beautiful and sexy, but at the same time, it it makes us really fall in love with ourselves. And this helps with so much in life. Like we're setting boundaries and saying no to people and choosing carefully and choosing the relationship that we want and going. So it's a great practice. It's so simple. And if is, then it brings miracles. It's true sexuality, beside the scale that we were talking about has a lot to do with attitude and what you're sharing is if you foster that type of an attitude that you know that you are a sexy human being, that you you know, your energy is a sexual being.

That and then it kind of like as you're moving forward, it motivates you, it gives you vitality, and it creates attractiveness not only from a sexual perspective, but it creates attractiveness. It draws people to you. And it could sometimes be the doorway to, you know, the levels of intimacy and attachment or power or, you know, your intellect or a lot of other angles which sometimes the, the essence that you have, you know, kind of like. What comes to my mind is can you first be attracted to yourself instead of damning yourself consistently or looking in the mirror and looking at all the parts you don't like, and is actually get attracted to yourself first and self?

Yeah, and then you walk away because we have such a negative talk about ourself like we grow up with most of us grew up with critical parents or teachers, and then we have this voice in our head that is constantly comparing us. And when you look in the mirror naked, then you look at the models who do this for a living, and then you compare yourself some more. So this is like a problem that's universal. And I think it's such an act of rebellion and of courage to really start liking and loving yourself and being in love with yourself and finding yourself your self sexy, expressing like you are.

This doesn't mean that you don't go to the gym or don't, you know, like go to Pilates or whatever, or try to move and keep yourself healthy. But just loving yourself as you are and desiring yourself. That's so healing and it brings so much change in people's lives when they start viewing themselves as such. And it also brings a lot of confidence as well. And taking the same thing that you are as who you are, whether you're single or in a in a relationship.

Closing Thoughts and Where to Find the Guest 35:00

And then as you bring this into the relationship, how do you what would be your suggestions to couples at the beginning of their relationship, still in the honeymoon phase where they can establish, let's say, some communication, portals with each other, but sometimes, like we said at the beginning, people don't talk about this. They are in a relationship, they're having a sexual relationship, but they don't talk about it. You know, I think exactly like you said, communication is key. You have to really express yourself when you're in bed, even when you're having sex, you have to teach people how to have sex with you because the other person doesn't know what you like, what you dislike, what turns you on, what you want more of because people don't read minds and we have to claim ownership of our own pleasure.

And when we do that, the other person was there with us in the experience, of course, are going to enjoy giving us pleasure because that's why they're having sex with us. So actually, many people, they don't have a good sexual, sexual experience is because they don't say what they like and what they dislike. And I think it's very important when people decide and like, okay, we're going to be a couple and like they're starting, you know, to build a relationship, to have the talks, you know, like be curious, what are your fantasies?

What would you like to experience more of? Let's try it. You know, until you try, you don't know if you're comfortable or not. What would you like to experience more of? Let's have like, one day where we just are with each other and we explore sexuality, because sometimes people also think that eroticism has to do with sex. And for me, these are two separate things. You can have an erotic experience eating chocolate. Like the pleasure and the way smells and the smell. And like, if you really drop down in your body, that's erotic.

You can have an erotic experience when you're listening to a beautiful piece of music and you feel like the music is making love to you, it doesn't have to be about sexuality. Also, people think that sexuality has to do with having great sex that ends with an orgasm, and I think that takes that reduces sex to sounds like sex is this big picture with lots of colors and shapes and mountains and rivers, and there's so much exploration to do. And people say, yeah, there's a tree. And this way that's where you have to go.

And people put so much pressure on the orgasm itself that they don't realize that actually the best part of sex is getting there. And even if you don't get it, the pleasure of being together, the kissing, the caressing, the sounds, the, you know, like the explorations are so amazing that if you have an orgasm, that's amazing. But it's not like the big, you know, the grand finale. There's no grand finale. The grand finale is the pleasure itself. This is my people, rush. Also, you know, they don't take their time to really warm up, to be ready to have a sexual experience.

They don't have that period after having sex where they cuddle or they talk or they, you know it for some people it just becomes like something mechanic. And it's very sad because it's so much more than that. I think people become lazy around sexuality, especially in when they are in a relationship. It just becomes part of, let's say the routine and they make it very like efficient and they get lazy at it. And sometimes when we take on the same at if we took on the same attitude of laziness around anything else, you know, our jobs, our careers or anything else, that would fail.

It would fail us because we're not putting the excitement and the energy to give us to to really hold that space, and the area of our life in what it needs to be, although it's one of the areas that really gives us pleasure. But I found many, many couples or even single people who become lazy at it. It's like, you know, there's one form, there's one way to do it. The not taking care of, the set up, this expression, and as you say, it's like it moves forward into wanting to get to the end versus the, you know, experiencing every angle of the journey and allowing themselves to really experience, you know, the it's like, you know, you've been cooking.

It's different when you just put something in your mouth just because you want to no longer be hungry, versus the experience of cooking for yourself and the taste and experiencing all the different taste and the whole concept of preparing and eating is pleasurable versus, okay, I'm hungry. Let me just go into the fridge and put something in my mouth to calm myself down. And they're both there. But if you're looking at sexuality in, amazing source of pleasure, vitality in your life, then putting it in the space of priority for yourself, it really, really helps.

I think you're so right. Like spot on. There it it does become they become lazy because they allow it to become boring. You know, like if you do the same thing over and over again, at one point it becomes boring. This is why, you know, like hence the expression just spice it up. You have to spice it up so that it's always exciting and it's always fun. It's also, I think that sex life usually shows how the relationship is in general. So couples who are more communicative to each other, who have more intimacy, will have a better sex life than people who always fight.

I think it's also about where each of the people of the person, each of the people are in their lives. Because if one of them has a big project, they don't have a lot of time for sexuality. And I think that's fine. We need to understand that lives moves in rhythms, but not forget about it entirely. And even for a single people, even if they're not in a relationship or they're not looking for a relationship, you can still have a very fascinating sexual life with yourself and make dates with yourself and have, beautiful, beautiful, sex sessions with yourself, you know, and I think it's very important to encourage this type of expression because it's been I think sex is not so celebrated as an experience.

It's either you have to not talk about it, there's shame around it, or you have to perform at it. But it's it needs to be really normalized. It's part of who we are as human beings. It's normal. It should be a human. When it is celebrated, it's celebrated in a different context versus celebrated in everyday life. In, in your normal, you know, family life. It doesn't get celebrated from that angle. Usually sexuality, when it gets celebrated, it goes into like pornography or, you know, orgy parties or, something that goes, and it separates itself from the crowd as if there's one crowd at a particular time in your life that you're just going to splurge.

And there's, you know, it's like an addiction or a splurging or things that are just animalistic versus being celebrated within the context of, you know, your normalcy of everyday life in, in every angle of life that you could be close to, to each other. And they're both okay. It's just that the, the culture, kind of the society, splits it off. Yeah. That format and therefore, you know, most of the time it kills it off within, our relationships. And it's sad. It's sad to kill off one of the most amazing, vital energies that we have.

Malina. Anything we haven't said that you really want people to know. I think I would really like people to know that the energy of desire should be celebrated. I think this is really important. I think they would really, I think I would like them to know that sexuality is a gift that we have as humans. It's something to be enjoyed and reveled in and experienced and exploited, and that we just need to turn off those voices that tell us otherwise. Yeah, because it's natural. Sex is natural. I think this would be like the conclusion that was a beautiful conclusion.

It was so great to have you. You know, I know it's writing. Yeah. It's very late where you are. How can people find you? Well, they can find me on Instagram and on Facebook and on my website w w w Carolina career.com. That's how they can find me. Thank you so much for inviting me. I've had such a blast talking to you. I really enjoyed it. Oh of course we had. But every time I've seen you, we've had such a great time in exploring, exploring life and exploring, you know, the concept of, of the field itself and how to grow, in all levels.

And I wrote I had one of my best for people who are listening or watching who I had one of my best experiences with you, in, in Dubai in this amazing ten course, Michelin star, restaurant, which was in Atlantic in, we had the whole amazing aquarium in front of us with just like we're talking about pleasure. It's like every single food, every single dish that came. I think all of us were like, oh, my God, this was the most amazing, concept that you and we had experienced. So, I hope that we get to meet somewhere across the world again and possibly in the U.S and, continue working with each other and really, growing this, amazing field of, psychotherapy that we integrated psychotherapy that we are so passionate about.

Yeah. I was so beautiful. I love seeing you in Dubai and spending time together, and it was such an honor that you came to our conference last year when we turned 18 years old as a school. Yes, yes. And I love working with you as well. Yes. I can't wait to come over and we could do more research together. And, beautiful again, thank you so much for taking the time for inviting me. And for all of you who are out there. Create an amazing life for yourself and everyone around you. If you liked what you heard, share it, share it with your friends.

And subscribe to both the YouTube channel and, and the podcast. And until next week. Bye bye. Are you a psychotherapist looking to enhance your practice? The Awareness Integration therapy developed by Doctor Franzen is a comprehensive guide to the principle and techniques of this powerful therapeutic approach. Join the growing community who have elevated their practice and expanded their skills by embracing awareness, integration, therapy and witnessing its life changing impact. Who do you can't be on Amazon now?