From Hormonal Chaos To Clarity: The Natural Approach To Thriving In Midlife

Menopause as a Life Stage 0:00

Menopause is a life stage, not a live sentence. It's not the end, it's the under your period, but it is not end period. I never let anyone tell you that because there's always, I mean we have women in their 80s and 90s in our practice who have been breast cancer survivors who had had all the things and they are just now starting to enjoy their life again. What you've experienced, there is hope and the body can do amazing things, you can heal itself and it just needs our support. This is Dr. Talks.

Hello, hello. Welcome back to Hormones and Mental Health Summit, Overcoming Anxiety, Depression, and ADHD in Women. I'm your co-host, Dr Sharon Stills, always It's been a pleasure and my honor and privilege to be here with you all to have these life changing conversations that can help you on your hormonal journey. And today, I'm super excited I have a dear friend and colleague another rock star naturopathic physician Dr. Michelle sands she is. the brains behind Glow Natural Wellness. And as I was thinking, I'm like, you are glowing, so beautiful.

You're like the embodiment of your brand. She's an expert in hormones and everything women, she's been recognized by all the major outlets and Oprah and ABC. she has her own story where she had overcome infertility and autoimmunity and early menopause diagnosis, so she can relate. She's been there herself. As I said, she runs Glow Natural Wellness, which probably a lot of you listening have already heard of, and they offer accessible plant-based bioidentical hormone replacement and personal care products and health coaching and nutrition and all the things you need to have a Happy Hormonal Journey.

Mental Health and Hormone Decline 2:00

So she is also a sponsor of this summit. And so without our sponsors, we wouldn't be able to put on summits like this. We want to give her lots of love and lots and thank you for participating, for sponsoring, and then for taking time out of her extremely busy schedule to be here and share her wisdom with us. Welcome to the summit and I'm so excited you're here. Thank you so much Dr. Stills and I just want to like commend you for taking the time to put on an event like this because I don't think we can raise awareness enough about mental health and menopause.

And so that's one of the reasons why when we heard about it, we're like, We want to make sure this event goes big because it is such, such an issue. We all know what menopsis is what most people do, but a lot of times we think it's just hot flashes and night sweats and physical problems. But what we can't see the mental issues are sometimes more devastated than anything else. So I think this is a such important event and I just want Thank you for putting it on. Yes. Well, thank you. And you're 100% right, because we definitely are on that same mission to change the conversation that menopause is not just about night sweats or hot flashes, which is what we've been told over the years.

So why don't we just jump in and tell me, what do you see with the women you work with and how is their mental health being affected and what are you doing to changed that for them? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, such a big question. But you know, one of the biggest thing I see with the women I work with is the blaming of themselves for mood issues for brain fog for feeling anxious or if you're feeling weepy or for being depressed and feeling like they're doing something wrong. They're not eating good enough.

Not exercising hard enough, they are not doing anything, not meditating hard. It's not well known that our hormones are really our body's emotional regulators. like estrogen, the hormone that we know the most about, people think estrogen is the female hormone, it happens to be like our energizing hormone or kind of our happy hormones, closely related to serotonin, and then progesterone is our calming hormone kind, of, our nature's volume. And so when they're balanced, then you have a nice balance of happy, energized and calm and relaxed.

When they're off balance, that can cause just devastating mood issues. You can get definitely irritated, you can be weepy, anxious, and then it just snowballs with all the other menopause symptoms. Not sleeping, having hot flashes, joint pain, brain fog, weight gain, All of that just snowballs together and women are blindsided because we have conversations when we go through puberty. Usually a parent or a school or somebody will tell us what's going to happen to our body, hopefully. When you get pregnant, we had the what to expect when you're expecting.

We have what you expect me have a baby. It's no surprise that there's gonna be a human that comes out of your body. But you go through perimenopause, most people don't even know what that is, the time leading up to menopaus, and it is just nobody tells you anything. In fact, you can go to your doctor and you say, I'm feeling weepy, anxious, I look at my husband and I can't stand him even though I love him everything irritates me and the doctor just says oh well you know you just need to relax have a glass of wine here's the anti-depressant maybe a birth control pill nobody is like oh you Know Sharon don't worry this happens to everybody your hormones are simply declining your progesterone is going down this is why you're not calm anymore this Is why your anxious at night Your estrogen is fluctuating wildly.

That's why sometimes you're like laughing and then the next moment you want to cry. And women really think that they have a mental health problem where it's not fixable and they has to be put on antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication for the rest of their life. While the real root cause is just being dismissed and it's well documented that hormones like estrogen, progesterone, even testosterone. I didn't say testosterone, but very important hormone. Too little of it. You feel kind of blah. I'm nothing really excites me.

And then too much of it, you can be very angry and irritable. So when these are out of balance, we should be bursting. Oh, let's look at your 40 years old. Let's like your hormones. It's likely your. Hormones are getting out a balance and we could stat should. Be the first line of treatment.

Books, Myths, and Hormone Education 7:00

before antidepressants are needed. And for women who already have a history of depression that are already on antidespressant medications, the research shows that they have much higher chance of having more devastating effects of this condition when they had those hormone declines and menopause. So women should be offered hormone replacement therapy as a first-line defense, not after years and years of begging. The statistics are a woman has to go to the doctor's office between six and 10 visits before they'll even start the conversation about hormone-replacement therapy, which is such a disservice.

It's heartbreaking my heart breaks like when I see patients and when i hear their struggles and stories of just what you're saying the statistics are showing I can say yes i see that statistic it's it in raging it said it all the things and. Is there a book, like I remember the What to Expect When You're Expecting, is there what to expect when you're when your menopause? There is now. So in the past three or four years, we have a great network of very hormone literate doctors. um there's a book called estrogen matters which is written by an oncologist and medical researcher and that is fabulous because that debunks almost every myth about estrogen causing cancer estrogen, causing heart attacks, estrogen and causing all these diseases that in hindsight when you look the real research actual estradiol and estriol the hormones that our body makes actually prevents Alzheimer's, dementia, diabetes, seven different types of cancer, including breast cancer and heart disease, and helps you live on average seven years longer.

So it reduces risk of all-cause mortality. But so this book really debunks many of those myths. If someone's listening, their doctor has said they can't use hormones because they have a family history of breast-cancer, or someone in their family has had a stroke, That's wrong. So, Estrogen Matters, great book. And then there's some other great books out there. I wrote a book called Hormone Harmony Over 35. That is kind of a basic explain what the hormones do. Explain what you might be experiencing as symptoms.

There's a great quiz in there, And then at the end, there is a 21 day plan to naturally holistically use food and lifestyle to get your hormones as balanced as they can be without going to hormone replacement therapy. But the truth is, even if you're on hormone, replacement, therapy, lifestyle matters. So you can be have your hormones at the perfect level, but if you are not supporting your body with nourishing food, if your not getting all your nutrients and amino acids and proteins and healthy fats, If you're not sleeping, youre not exercising and moving your the way it was supposed to be done.

If your are doing some type of mindfulness, and some stress reduction because we live in a stressful world, they are not going to have optimal physical or mental health even with hormone replacement therapy. So it's a really important part of it. As a naturopathic physician in natural medicine, we always have to remember it is not just the pill for an ill philosophy that we have in conventional medicine where we are just going cover up your symptom. with the medication. It really is about supporting the body, restoring what can't be made again by the bodies, which is usually our estrogen and progesterone, and then also supporting our body through midlife and beyond with healthy lifestyle practices.

So that's a book. And then Dr. Mary Claire Haver wrote a great book called The New Menopause, which I think is a really, really great because she really explains from a conventional medical doctor, OB-GYN, how she was not taught anything about hormones or menopausal. They actually used to call women who came in and complained about hormone-related symptoms, they call them whiny women. in the hospital. So I love hearing from conventional doctors that have kind of woken up to the fact that our regular insurance-based healthcare system, most of the doctors are not trained in menopause.

Even your OB-GYN, who is your female doctor, the doctor that we feel that should be going to for all women's health issues, They are experts at pregnancy, at childbirth, that postpartum at things like endometriosis and PMDD and period problems. But when it gets to the point where your hormones are naturally declining in periapine metapause and menopause, they don't have any education in their normal practice. Now they can go after they graduate school and they learn and go for a continuing education.

and get that education, but most of them about the statistic is 80% of your conventionally trained doctors. say that they do not even feel comfortable treating women in menopause or dealing with hormone replacement therapy. So it's no wonder that women are not getting the help that we need. And now I'm not saying that every single woman has to be on hormone-replacement therapy, but I think every woman should have the opportunity to make that decision for herself and have clear and real facts about what's happening to her body and then what her options are.

And there are so many options nowadays that are safe, effective, plant-based, non-toxic. There's so much options out there that women can use to actually feel good naturally and not have to resort to taking medications that they probably don't need. I was thinking, I'm going to ask you, what would you say, because I hear a lot, You know, I want to be natural so I don't want take hormones and I'm just curious what your thought process is on that and the benefit of taking hormones over just doing lifestyle or what you're philosophy.

Bioidentical Hormones and Delivery Methods 13:00

Yeah, that is such a good question because as a naturopathic physician. I came out of school and that was my opinion. I was like, I am not going to take any hormones. Naturally, which is great when I'm in my thirties because that's exactly what we should be doing before your hormones start to decline. But it's our hormonal systems are Not really meant for us to live past 4550 years old, which was the life expectancy, hundreds of years ago. However, now we have modern medicine, we had sanitation.

We have all these things that are allowing us live on average 8080 I think it's 88 years. women's new average between 85 and 88. So that means half of our life, because if perimenopause starts 10 years before menopausal, average age of menopsis is 51, so let's say 41. That's half your life you're living in a state of hormone decline. We can't eat enough berries or any food. There's no food that we can eat. No amount of exercise we could do. those hormones that every single cell in our bodies need.

So that it means that in order to live optimally, in or to have that full function of all of our systems, those are necessary and needed. Now, it used to be back in the early 2000s that the hormones were synthetic, they were derived from things like horse urine, there's something called conjugated equine estrogen, that was actually pregnant horses, their urine would be where they'd extract the estrogen from, and that is the most commonly prescribed estrogen on the market like back in like the 1990s, the 2000s.

And that's the one that they found like some issues with in that study, that women's health initiative study. Then the progesterone wasn't even progesterone, it was madroxyprogesterin acetate, which is a really, really not good substance. It kind of looks like progeterine, but it does some bad things in the body. That's kind of where hormones got the negative rap from. And I thought that's what hormones were. Then I realized that there are hormones that are made from plants. There's wild yam and there's soy, and you can get organic wildyam, organic soy.

They have a component called diogenin. It has a very similar chemical structure to our actual hormone. So when I say that, think back to, I don't know, fifth grade chemistry class. you had all those little like octagons that were stuck together with the little tails, the carbons and the hydrogens, and that is the chemical structure of something. And so the diogenin, if you just eat a wild yam, you're not going to get any hormones, but if take that diagenin into a lab and you remove some of those carbins and hydogens, you actually end up with the exact chemical structure of our estrogen, like our estradiol or estriol, our progesterone or testosterone or DHEA, and that is natural.

It's not genetically modified, they're just removing some things and then that's what the base of the hormone is. And then you also have what else is in the hormonal preparation. So whether you're using a gel or cream or a patch or have to look at what else is in there because that also matters, the additional ingredients. So in our practice in gluonatural wellness, we actually manufacture our own bioidentical plant-based hormones that are completely toxin-free and not tested on animals, don't have any plastics, parabens, adhesives, petrochemicals, all those things matter to me as a naturopathic physician.

That was what I needed to do to want to take hormones myself because I wanted it to be Just like my skincare that I use, I don't want endocrine disruptors or plastics or petrochemicals in there, and I didn't wanna in my hormones either. But I had that same feeling, like I did not wanna do anything until I realized that in order for as a woman me to have optimal mental health, physical health emotional health heart health all the things I was gonna need to those hormones. So why would I get to spend my life like going to the gym, eating healthy, meditating, doing all the things and I wasn't going to have the raw materials that I needed.

So when you think about it, if someone is diabetic, we're not going tell them not to take insulin because they need it for life. If someone has a thyroid condition, thyroid hormone because they need to support life and women's health is the same. If someone has estrogen deficiency, progesterone deficiency testosterone deficiency we should replace those so that she can have the quality of life that he deserves and everything gets better. Her workouts are more effective, her relationships are better, she could think better so she actually can excel at her job her confidence goes up.

It really affects every single area of our life Not just getting rid of hot flashes, not just dealing with vaginal dryness or low libido or painful steps or weight gain. Those are important, but looking at both the long-term health risks, the heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's, cancers, prevention of that, but also our everyday life, everything that we do and the people around us are affected by our hormones. And it's really, really important that women understand that it is natural and it essential in my book.

I love talking to you because I have to sit back and like yes, just what she said like we aligned and now we, we think so. I want to go back because you brought up a good point about, because i learned this I mean I've been practicing 23 years and I remember. Like early on when I first started practicing and I was, you know, my early 30s, I wasn't thinking about menopause yet, but I all of a sudden had this big menopus practice. And but i wasn' really seeing what the women were taking and then one day like a patient just happened to come in, and she's like I have a question about my, bioidentical progesterone capsule, What is that?

Why is it artificially colored? Oh my God, what am I asking you? I just assumed, oh, it's bioidentical. It's going to be, and so I learned very quickly, wow, we got to really pay attention. And so, I'm curious to hear, because I was talking about this with another naturopath recently, a lot of women take the patch. But what is the detriment of like the adhesive and the pad. Yes, I'm glad you asked that because that was the one thing that I have been looking into so right now like I'm actually trying to formulate an adhesive that is non-toxic that doesn't have any petrochemicals in it because it does have like basically gasoline is what you're putting on your skin every day.

So we don't really know what the long-term effects are but in my book if it's something that I am going to use once or twice, or you get some type of infection, you have to take a medication for a week or two weeks, that's one thing. But if it's something that I'm voluntarily putting on my body every single day, I'd prefer not to have petrochemicals in it. I don't know, it just doesn't seem like a good idea. Um, i don' have research on that level of petrochemicals, what the effects over years and years are, but I do know that there are other options.

There's looking at pressure sensitive bamboo as a possible option. So my goal is hopefully within the next year to have that formulated so I can make it available to even to big pharma if they want it so that women can actually have a non-toxic patch option because I think the idea of a patch is amazing. You don't have to remember to take anything, you don't have to remember to put creams or anything on. So you just have the patch and you can actually cut it down if you want less hormones. The patch is great and some women love the patches.

If you're on the passion and love it, I'm not going to tell you you are doing a bad thing because you actually benefiting yourself by having hormones, but I believe there is a better way that isn't invented yet, then I'm hoping to be part of that solution. So personally, I don't use the patch for that reason. I use hormone creams and oils instead, because I feel like I want as less toxins in my body as I possibly can.

Estradiol, Estriol, and Dosing 22:00

And I do live in the world, and so I am exposed to toxins on a regular basis, but I have my detoxification systems that are working great. That's kind of my take on that. There is not yet in the world a patch that is non-toxic at this point. That's cool. I didn't know that. Of course you're already thinking. Yeah. Well, I'm always trying to figure out like, how can I make things better for women? And I know not everybody wants to use a cream or oil or sublingual. So the patch is a great idea. It's just, it needs a little tweaking.

And this is how things happen. Like this how, things get better if somebody has to lead the charge. Right. And what about also, and I 3000% agree. What about, also though, can you speak to estradiol and estriol, like the patches only estridiol. and what are your thoughts on estrial and biased because I know there's been a lot of noise out there. Because, okay, so I see like there's two camps and there is the let's give your body the estradiol and the estriol. And there are two reasons why people do that.

One reason that I've seen is people say, well, estrial is safer. So we want to give you the Estriole to offset some of the estrogen But that, I don't agree with that because I think estradiol is unsafe. I feel estridiol it is safe, but the body does make both of those hormones. And so I, when you're replacing it, it's nice to replace it together. Estriol does have some great benefits for autoimmunity. So we do see a lot of women who, as they get to perimenopause and menopausal have more tendencies to autoimmune issues.

And so the Estriol is protective in that autoimmune response. That's why I like to include it. We do offer both in our practice. Some women just want the estradiol, some women are okay with the estriole and estrdiol. I've, that's my preference to give both, but some practitioners will reduce the amount of estridiol to include the Estrel, I will never do that. I'm going to give you the dose that you need of Estradial and then I am just going add on some Estreal as a helper. So that's kind of like what you have to look at.

Are they lowering the amount of estradil they're giving me to gimme Estral? You don't want that, you want the dosage of the estrodial that It's the part of the estrogen, it's estrogen that does the most things. When we think about reduction of hot flashes, when we talk about brain health, heart health and breast health. We think of energy, all the things, that's usually estradiol and a little bit of estriol. Estriole is also great for vaginal dryness as well and for moisture overall. There is some research I'm seeing that estrial is great.

the elasticity of your arteries and your veins as well. So some research is coming out about that as Well, but I think that you can go either way. There's not a right or wrong. I do offer both in my practice for that reason. But anyone with any autoimmune tendencies, I, think using that combo cream of estradiol and estriol is really amazing. Though I know the women are like, hello, Dr. Sands, what could you give? I can't, but what is your approximate estradiol dosing just to give them an idea? It's so varied.

I could literally have a woman who's my exact height and weight that eats like me, works out like I do, and I might need a quarter of what she needs. It's it's crazy because there's no rhyme or reason to who needs more or less. So I would say anywhere between like a quarter of a milligram to two milligrams is generally the range that we see most commonly. Some women, I'll try to give them what I think is like, a standard dose. And they are just like oh my God, my heart was racing. They're like Oh my god, hardly gave you anything.

But women there's different women are sensitive. And different women need, they're like fast processors of their hormones. So there is no, like, I don't believe there's a standard dose. A lot of doctors do have a standardized because they don' really want to take the time to talk to you and see like how you feel. They're just putting on the same dose as everybody else. And that's oftentimes why some women say, although I do the hormones and they didn't work because you weren't on right dose or the right delivery method or right combination of hormones, and so it's not a one size fits all at all.

And even a lot of women, as they kind of go through their journey, they'll have to adjust their dose and that's completely fine. As long as you're working with a practitioner who has an open line of communication with you and they should answer your questions. And if you feel like, hey, I want to try a little bit more, They should be open to that. Or if there's a reason why they're like you can't go any higher, maybe they will explain that to you. But ultimately it's your body and you should kind the mastermind behind what you want for yourself with your practitioner as a guide.

So yes, that's kind of how I feel, but there is no like one dose, like this is the dose that does it. It'd be really easy if that was the way it worked. But yeah, I mean, yeah. I know, right? We'd all be like on vacation all the time. Everyone gets 2.5 milligrams of this, one milligram of and that's it. And it is, it always is so interesting to me, because there are, there's some women, they could take these teeny tiny bits and it has like this huge, their labs and like their hormones are higher than the lady that on the higher dose.

So I'm like, what is going on? So you really, One of the things that I hope you all really heard Dr. Sands say is like, you need to find someone who's going to listen to you who is not just doing the same thing for everyone who is gonna work with you. You are, you are the owner, right? 24 seven in your body. We get the privilege of seeing you for an office visit here and there or whatever, and use us as guides, but you first and foremost know your better than anyone. That's super important, Dr. Stills, because I think, especially in our generation, We were brought up to be good patients.

If the doctor said something, we were supposed to do it and not question it. And you don't ask the Doctor why he's doing something. But that has to go away. The new way healthcare should be done is you should in charge of your healthcare. It is your ultimate responsibility to take care of As practitioners, we are here to guide you. We are to facilitate. we can give you the tools. But yes, I mean, everyone should be an active participant in their healthcare and not be ashamed to question and also not to be afraid to fire your doctor if they are not listening to you, it's like a relationship.

It's dating. If they don't listen to, if Give you what you need for support. You need to find another person. Right. And so there's plenty of like amazing doctors out here, probably many of them on this event that like they're a whole reason for like showing up every day is to make you feel better. So that's really what it should be. Yeah, and we learn, you know, we learned so much from our patients, right? I mean, yes, every day. Yeah. So when they ask questions and I will be the first one to say, I don't always know the answer, but I'll find out for you and then I,

Advocating for Yourself in Menopause Care 30:00

will learn you will, learn and everyone will benefit. Exactly. I always used to, it always like, It still does like make me question when, like let's say I'm working with a patient who's dealing with cancer and, you know, they go natural and their cancer goes into remission and they back to their oncologist. And it always blows my mind, like, why doesn't the oncologists call me to say, what did you do? Like, I want to learn because if I am on the other side of that, can I have your doctor's number?

I'd like to talk to them and see what they did so I can help more people too. But that's such a very rare thing that happens. So you want I love your analogy, right? It's like dating. You find a doctor you can have a good, sane relationship with. Very good advice. So we've got a few minutes left. Just any other words of wisdom, clinical pearls, tips for the women who are listening, who aren't dealing with mental health issues, an antidepressant who've been told that's their only option, who have been handed the birth control pill.

What would you say to them? Yeah, I would definitely encourage them to get a second opinion, to you get their hormones tested. These days, you do not even need to go to the doctor to your hormones. I don't know, Dr. Stills, if you offer hormone testing, we offer on our website that you could do at home and you can at least know for yourself. are your hormones low or in a range that would cause some mental health issues? And at least have that information. So when you do go into the doctor, you're like, hey, so I tested my hormones and I realized that my moments are almost non-existent.

Isn't it true that that can cause my mental issues. I think just like knowing for yourself is so important, but any like research you can do um don't make yourself crazy on the research though because some people will research theirself sick um because then you find you feel like you have everything so but just having some knowledge and understanding that your hormones are directly related to your brain health your mood your emotions how you handle stress, your stress resilience level, Your ability to process memory, you're ability use logic.

All of these things are very much related to our hormones. They are emotional messengers. And so if you are having any type of even ADHD, even like lack of focus, irritability, any of this things if your noticing that you have rage, definitely consider getting your hormones tested, no matter what your age is. Because I was diagnosed with menopause at age 20. And so I basically a premature menopath told that I would never have children. It was a false diagnosis because now we know that it's called of primary ovarian insufficiency, meaning that they're just, your ovaries aren't working sufficiently.

But back then it was primary ovary and failure. It was the end. You're in menopause. And I saw firsthand at that young age how poorly prepared our medical system is to handle women in a state of hormone decline. I thought how women who were pregnant were getting like, escorted into the office and oh oh my gosh you're glad we did it and then there was me sitting there and they were just like you hand me a prescription and tell me to go home. And so I can see how women are dismissed. And it's only been since 1993 that women were even included in medical trials.

There is this whole history of women's health issues being dismissed, women being told they're just moody. Even back to the days of the Greek philosophers, it was thought that our uteruses were rotting, and that's why we were hysterical. It was making us crazy from the fumes from our uderus. And there was nothing that could be done. And so there's this whole kind of like, I don't know, bad vibe around women's mental health. and their hormones and that it's like this the end is the beginning of the and nothing can be done.

But we now know how mental health issues can they reverse can we helps can't be improved with hormonal balance and then also with nutrition with exercise with nourishing and supporting your body naturally. so that it can actually behave the way it should in the ways that you're going to feel good. And so just now, I guess my ending message is menopause is a life stage, not a sentence. It's not the end. It's just, don't, I never let anyone tell you that because there's always, and we have women in their eighties and nineties in our practice who have been breast cancer survivors who had had all the things and they are just now starting to enjoy their life again.

And so no matter how old you are, how young you, what you've experienced, there is hope and the body can do amazing things. It can heal itself. And it just needs our support. That's that's kind of how I'd like to leave everybody with a hope. Yeah, you know, there's so much hope I know both Dr. Sands and I, I have had patients who have thought they need to be institutionalized for breakdowns or and like with the right hormones, they feel like themselves again. And so that's available for all of you with the right help.

I was just saying to my son who runs my office, we have been getting so many women in their 70s and 80s lately, and I love it. At first it's super sad because you hear these stories, like they've been suffering for 10, 15 years, no one's paid attention to them, but then you treat them and they're like, They're back and they're feeling great and their brains are back. I know. It's awesome, but it's sad that they had to wait so long. But it is great that now the conversation is less taboo to talk about menopause.

Before, when they were in their 50s, you just didn't talk that. God forbid you say you have vaginal dryness in public. Oh my God. But now it's the conversations in the media. We've got Oprah, we got Jennifer Addison, Halle Berry, like Demi Moore. They're all talking about menopause. So now, it is okay. And now these ladies are like, finally speaking up. That's all we can hope for is that that becomes a new norm and women get help as early as they want it. Yes, yes, and yes. Well, we could do this for hours.

So I know. Where could the ladies learn more about you? Yeah, so our website is glownaturalwellness.com. But I am very active on Instagram. I'm Dr. Michelle Sands on Instragram. If anyone listening has a question for me or wants to learn about the hormones, Definitely just reach out to me on Instagram and just say, hey, I saw you or interview at Sharon Stills or on the mental health and hormones or menopause summit. And then I'll know where you come from. I'm happy to answer your questions or give you some support, point you in the right direction, or just cheer you on in your own menoppause journey.

Awesome, well I gotta go follow you on Instagram. I don't know that we're following each other. Hello naturalwellness.com, go check her out on instagram. Again, thank you for, it's always a pleasure to talk to someone where I'm just like, I know what she's saying because we think so alike. Yes, we are on the same page, definitely. So thank you. I mean, you're just such an inspiration and just a force in this field. So women are lucky that you are doing the work you doing and thank for being a part of the summit.

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