From Surviving to Thriving: Building Resilient Humans and Organizations

Introduction to My MD Unscripted 0:00

The second pillar is your relationship with other people. Are you able to establish good relationships, relationships that are nurturing to you, loving and nurturing? Because just as we need food in our lives, we need emotional nourishment as well. And are you able to set healthy boundaries? So you can say no when you need to say no. So you make sure that people don't, you know, intrude upon your psychological space, so to speak. Welcome to My MD Unscripted, where healthcare gets personal and the script gets tossed.

I'm Dr. Clint Carter, ER doctor turned direct primary care freedom fighter on a mission to challenge how our healthcare system treats patients in America. In every episode, my expert guest and I dive into real conversations about what's broken and how we can fix it by making healthcare about people, not just managing disease. It's time to rethink what healthcare should be and how we can make it better together. Welcome to the podcast. Hello and welcome back to the MyMD Unscripted Podcast. I'm your host, Dr.

Clint Carter, and I am honored to welcome Dr. Steven Sidoroff with us. This is going to be a fun one. We are, you know, a lot of times we're talking about functional medicine or we're talking about health, very, very practical, hands-on, eat this, don't eat that kind of stuff, right? And I'm super excited to talk. bigger picture today. We're going to call this episode from surviving to thriving.

Stress, Resilience, and Peak Performance 1:35

And we're going to talk with Dr. Sidoroff, who is a UCLA professor, psychologist, resilience and longevity expert. I mean, he's got a book that he has written called the Nine Pillars of Resilience. So I suspect we are going to get into some of that. He also has a podcast of his own called the Quantum Leadership Podcast. So. Man, as much as getting into running my own practice was about medicine, it has been so much about leadership and, you know, in a lot of ways, just how to handle the different stressors that come my way that I wasn't prepared for when I, you know, when they taught me medical school stuff.

So thank you so much for coming on. Dr. Sidoroff, give us a, give us a better introduction than that for yourself and then we can get rolling. All right. I think you did a great job and I'm happy to be here. Happy to be having this conversation with you. Well, thanks. Yeah. You know, it's not often that we've got a UCLA professor with us. Usually I've got, you know, you know, functional medicine guys or stuff like that. So this is an opportunity to go into a different direction that I love. You know, I think we can start for me.

I love that, you know, we talk about stress a lot, a lot on this podcast because that's so much of, you know, you don't need a pill for that. And when you got to work on your stress and your sleep and your diet and your, you know, exercise and all of that stuff. We talk about stress a lot, but you know, resilience, a lot of people think of resilience as the ability to sort of push through stress. you know, resilience may be more about adapting intelligently to your environment and, you know, refusing to be knocked down by it.

Tell me kind of what, where you want us, how to start this conversation about how you went from, you know, a psychology professor talking about resilience and ultimately leadership. I think that'd be a great way to start. Sure. Happy, happy to do that. You know, I actually started my career in brain research, looking at where and how memory and learning take place in the brain. But, you know, I was working with animals and I wanted to be able to ask my subjects how they felt, and I was not able to do that.

So I moved into more clinical work, but still kept my research branch of the work that I do, both in my research and in clinical. And early on, I began in the area of addiction. And I realized that recovering addicts, how they handled stress was a key factor in whether they relapsed or not. That stress increases craving, stress increases vulnerability. When I moved into broader work, you know, working with all kinds of people, literally all sizes, shapes and forms, that same relationship persisted.

And that is that the more stress we have in our lives, the more it impairs our level of functioning, the more it strains our ability to cope. And most interesting of all, Clint, is that The most recent learning that we have in our lives is the first things that suffer with stress overload. That we typically revert back to old patterns under more and more stress, which is one of the important reasons why it's so important. And when I did work with athletes, I really worked on this because in pressure situations, whether you're an athlete, whether you're an executive or anybody, that's when performance suffers if you haven't learned to handle stress.

So it became obvious to me that that's what I wanted to focus on because it modulated everything else in our lives. But I quickly learned in working with people on stress and dealing with stress, that it wasn't just a one-dimensional process. It's not just, okay, learn to relax. It's not just, okay, at the end of a stress, find ways to recover, find ways to recuperate. And that's the typical kind of stress management approach. But I learned that there are so many factors that contribute to our ability to be resilient and our ability to adapt moment by moment to what's going on in our lives.

And that's where I developed my model of resilience, which has nine pillars, nine components, because my model of resilience is really about optimal functioning. A person who's resilient is functioning in the most optimal way. And that means that they've addressed emotional unfinished business, for example. Because if you haven't dealt with your wounding, if you haven't dealt with needs that were never met, but you're not aware of them or feelings that haven't been expressed, all of that unconscious stuff drives our behavior.

So you have people, for example, rich billionaires now who have loads of money, but they still are focused on making more money because they think that's what's going to bring them happiness when in fact, it never will. And it'll only keep them on this treadmill working harder and harder. And, you know, it's surprising, but I work with a lot of people who are very wealthy and no matter how wealthy they are,

The Nine Pillars of Resilience 7:35

they're still stressed. So money is not the answer. And my nine pillars kind of. Traverse the range of factors that we have to take into account. We have to get better and better at in order to become resilient. And if you're resilient, you handle life much better. You adapt to changes in situations much better. And that is particularly important these days when the speed of change, the velocity of change is increasing every day. I've got this working analogy going on in my head while you talk of a, of an NFL quarterback under pressure, right?

And I just, I don't know, I mean, there's so many different ways we could go with it, but I just, you know, if you wait until the stress is over to figure out how to deal with it, well, you're already sacked or through the interception and it's over. And in the midst of the pressure, the first thing you're going to forget is what you practiced on this week about that defense. And then your tendencies are going to come through and that their coaches know that. They know that under pressure, this quarterback tends to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And next thing you know, it all goes bad. I think it's a fun, in my head, there's a thousand ways to do it. And that's an oversimplification. But yeah, there's a reality of high performance in the moment of the stress. It's important. You can't just wait till the stress is gone to try to address it. Right, right. Well, it's interesting that you reference a quarterback because recently I interviewed for my peak performance podcast. I interviewed Matt Barkley, who was a star USC quarterback and then quarterback for 13 years in the NFL.

And I was talking to him about performing under pressure. And as a freshman, he went, he and his team went to Ohio state into the Ohio state stadium with a hundred thousand spectators all against you. Yeah. And I was asking him about that. And you know, the key responses he made were number one, preparation, preparation, preparation, practice, preparation, know what you're doing. And then. Or you, you stay focused on the task at hand, not on what a hundred thousand people are screaming. So it's possible, but it, it takes, you want to be a peak performer.

You want to be resilient. You have to do your, you have to do your practice. And, and I'll give you an important aspect of that Clint. If you think about your typical day, my typical day, anyone's today. We go from one stress to another. Now, our nervous system is not designed that way. Biologically, we are really not a match for the environment we live in. Yes. And so our nervous system is not designed very smartly through the evolutionary process. with the sympathetic branch that activates to danger and stress, helps us perform, helps us focus, and the opposite, the parasympathetic recovery branch.

And when you stress, you use the resources of your body, you bring yourself out of balance. Your nervous system activates. Now, if you just activate, activate, activate, activate throughout your day, the result is what I would suggest almost everybody in our society has, and that's autonomic dysregulation syndrome. with an imbalance between these two branches because of what I just said. I mean, there are many stimuli in our day that trigger stress, but I don't know about you, but I don't have any stimuli in my day that trigger my relaxation response.

Any stimuli that says you're safe, you can let go and you can relax. So we have to engage in a intentional process And we have to take time like Matt as a peak performing quarterback, but we all have to be our own peak performing quarterback of our own lives. And that means we have to find some time opportunity to literally practice a relaxation response. It doesn't matter how you do it, but if we're training the body throughout the day to activate the nervous system, to go out of balance, we also have to take time in the day to do the opposite, to recover balance.

Now, for people who are interested in performance, We are at our best when we're in this place of balance because our brain functions better. So everything, all roads point to the same thing. Master these nine pillars for best health and best performance. Well, and you know, if you stack stressors all day and you've been sympathetic, sympathetic, sympathetic, sympathetic, sympathetic, and you wonder why people go home and binge eat and can't sleep. And, you know, they're beginning to fight with their loved ones.

And if you're running from a bear, all of those things kind of make sense, right? Don't sleep, eat a bunch. Don't have to be nice to those people. Who cares? Just don't get eaten by the bear. We'll figure the rest of it out later. And the parasympathetic never comes into play. And you know, my good friend, Dr. Brown down the street here in my town and so many others around with all these, they have a lot of really cool devices that are designed mostly to channel up your parasympathetics and channel down your sympathetics, right?

Because people don't have the skillset. the toolbox at home to do this. And so to have something as simple as nine basic ways of pillars to think through for this process on a day in and day out basis. would be wonderful because the way that we're, phones are constantly at us, the responsibilities, the number of things we pile into a day. If you just let, if you just let it fall where it will, you're going to end up like we all do so often, stressed out and maxed out. Right. Okay. Well, let's get into it a little bit, man.

Let's talk about kind of a, at least a high level walkthrough of kind of what your, you know, what the nine pillars would kind of look like, you know, something that our audience could swallow and then we can get them, they can get more information for sure as we go. But I can't wait. This is gonna be fun. All right. Well, so. The nine pillars are in three different areas. The first area is relationship. Okay. And there are three areas of that. So there's, you know, the most important perhaps pillar of them all is the first one, which is your relationship with the person that you spend the most time with in your day and your life, yourself.

Okay. And here we're talking about how you treat yourself, how you talk to yourself. Are you loving to yourself or are you critical and judgmental? Do you see the positive in yourself or the negative? And we all develop that internal voice based on the lessons of childhood. They're not necessarily the best lessons, right? But we don't growing up, we don't know any better. In fact, some of these lessons happen before we even have language. And so they go in very deeply. In fact, our neural network.

Is is developed based on those early lessons. That's why they're so powerful. That's why it's so important to look at that in the healing process and the growing process. Otherwise they will sabotage growth. Yeah. And so, um, I like to say that the healthy. You want to replace your existing voice, which may be too critical, negative, judgmental, with a healthy voice that comes from a place of love, compassion, acceptance, a key component there, support, care, and joy. All of those are the embodiment in a sense of a healthy internal voice.

So now your audience has a model. Now they can compare how they talk to themselves with what I've just identified as a healthy model. The second pillar is your relationship with other people. Are you able to establish good relationships? Relationships that are nurturing to you, loving and nurturing. Because just as we need food in our lives, we need emotional nourishment as well. And are you able to set healthy boundaries? So you can say no when you need to say no. So you make sure that people don't, you know, intrude upon your psychological space, so to speak.

How people would never do that. Yeah. And the other, my thought on that relationship bit, number one is like, that's why it's so important with that early, even newborn type bonding things, you know, that, you know, a lot of your self-worth is wrapped up on whether someone nurtured you well before you could talk, like you said. Do you have a relationship pillar that kind of hits on the, you know, such a big part of a lot of people's resiliency strategy is religion to some extent. Is that addressed in your nine pillars at all, or is that sort of fall in sort of that relationship with yourself?

So again, my model is really comprehensive. So my third pillar is relationship with something greater. Ah, love it. So here. So here we're talking about, it could be a spiritual belief system that you have, but it's also anything that connects you to the larger community. Right. Purpose. Okay. So it's finding meaning in life. It's having a purpose in life because when you have any of these things and you have this bigger horizon in your life, daily stresses, daily hassles don't have as much of an impact on you.

So the next three... I was going to say, and Matt didn't go into that stadium full of a hundred thousand people that hated his guts just to take it like a man. There was a bigger purpose that day for he and his teammates and the team. The team was bigger than him. And despite the fact that there were several large men trying to kill him and a hundred thousand people that would have cheered the whole time, the bigger purpose won out. Absolutely. And, you know, one of the key aspects of quantum leadership and good leadership is recognizing the importance of all your team and team members and the interconnectedness and relationships.

The next three have to do with organismic balance and mastery. The fourth is physical balance and mastery. Can I get a good night's sleep? Can I recover from stress quickly? Am I able to relax? Do I respond to stress in a reasonable manner as opposed to perhaps overreacting when the stress is small? So it's a proportional relationship. The next one is mental balance and mastery. And here it's about having a growth mindset. If you notice a shortcoming someplace where you're weak, you don't go, well, that's just me.

You say, how can I learn to do this better? So it's both a growth mindset and a positive mindset. And it's about being able to let go of thoughts as well. Like when you're going to sleep, being able to let go of thoughts so you can get a good night's sleep. The next one is emotional balance and mastery. And I alluded to this earlier. It's the ability to recognize feelings, not push them down, but address them. because any feelings that you push down, you push to the side, you ignore, they don't go away on their own.

They go underground and they have an impact on you. but it's unconscious. And that's the worst kind. Part of you is gonna wanna be going in one direction to address that unfinished business while you're trying to go in this constructive direction. And it's going to create chaos within yourself and within your lives. And we could see this all around us. The last three have to do with how we engage in the world. Number seven is presence. How present am I? Do I notice what's in my environment? Am I able to be here and not up in my head with stories, up in my head trying to figure out what happened yesterday or worrying about what's going to happen tomorrow?

Signs of Burnout and Practical Self-Assessment 21:55

So that's the receptive aspect of presence. There's also a projection aspect of presence. What is my presence? What do I project into the environment that I walk into? What kind of energy do I carry? You know, you could be in a room with people and some people you are attracted to and some people you, when you get close to them, you just want to move away from them, right? Yep. Now, the interesting thing is if you and I were in the same room, close to each other, well, let me just say, when we have positive emotions, our heart rate variability, that's a measure of how our heart is functioning, goes into a coherent pattern.

And then by coherent pattern, I mean, when we breathe in, our heart rate speeds up. When we breathe out, our heart rate slows down. And ideally you want this optimal relationship of coherence where you see this nice curve in your heart rate pattern. When you go into a place of gratitude and positive feelings, you enhance this coherent pattern. Okay. But if you're in a negative emotional state, worried, angry, frustrated, that pattern becomes chaotic. So it's a, first of all, it's a good, clear, objective evidence of how our emotional state affects our physical state.

But now here's the kicker here, Clint. If you and I were standing next to each other, and I put an electrode on your scalp to monitor your brain waves, I'd be able to pick up my heart rate pattern in your brain waves. No way. Way. That's crazy. Yes. Your heart is a powerful engine that projects out beyond your body. No way. That's crazy. Isn't that amazing? So now let's put those last two things I said together. Yeah. Okay? If I'm in a positive mood, I have this coherent pattern, you're picking up a coherent pattern in your brain, and it's having one effect in terms of how you feel being near me.

Now I'm in a bad mood, something may have happened that I'm still carrying or holding onto, or I might just be nervous being with you. And now my heart rate's in this more chaotic pattern that you're picking up, you may have of totally different. impression of me and have no idea what it's about. Right. Right. You just know you don't want to get out of there. That's it. Right. So this is an aspect of emotional intelligence where you are in alignment with your feelings and you make positive choices with regard to your feelings.

So again, so that's presence. The eighth pillar is flexibility. Can I, if there's an obstacle in my path as I'm aiming toward a goal, am I flexible enough to either change my path or change my goal to be more successful? Flexibility is also, can I change my perspective? Can I actually put myself in someone else's shoes so I understand where they're coming from? This aspect of awareness and flexibility is so important in negotiating in any kind of relationship, being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

And finally, the ninth pillar, and this is what business usually focus on, but for me, I have in my model, I have my nine pillars in a pyramid. And this ninth, and this ninth pillar, sits on top of all the rest because it's supported and magnified by all the rest. And the ninth pillar, I call power and I define it as the ability to get things done. So power is having more courage than fear. Fear holds us back. People who engage in life in difficult situations are not people who don't have fear. They're people who raise their courage level enough to overcome their fear.

So it's courage, it's persistence, it's being able to focus, being able to set goals. So it's a whole range of factors that go into power, the ability to get things done. So now this is my model of resilience because each one of those contributes to our capacity to handle the stresses of life and stay in a place of balance. And by the way, Right now I'm doing a research study, a very interesting research study. So I'm, I'm collaborating with a company that does biological aging. You may have talked about this on your program.

Sure we have. Yep. Okay, so we are going to give people who have just gotten their biological age my resilience questionnaire. Okay. And we're going to see if those who score the highest on my resilience questionnaire show the slowest aging. And I think we will, which will both validate my questionnaire, which is one of the goals of the study, but it'll also validate my notion of how resilience creates optimal functioning. And when you create optimal functioning, you have optimal health because you're slowing the aging process.

You are, your body is working most efficiently. For sure, living in a sympathetic overload, you know, autonomic dysfunction is not good for you, right? Like cardiovascularly, neurologically, inflammatory. Quite frankly, your body's just trying to survive, get away from the bear. When we get away from the bear, we'll settle down and balance back out. We were absolutely designed to survive, but we weren't designed to come back to balance when the stressor goes away. And yeah, no, that's, you know, the medical side would line up with that just fine.

I look forward to hearing how that, because the biological age in a lot of ways is, You know, it's, it's mostly, it's, it's pretty agreed upon, but it's still kind of, you know, poo-pooed in some circles, right? And so to have this on one hand, to have this sort of like, sort of verifying each other, you know, because for sure living in balance is going to give you a longer, healthier life. And a higher quality of life relationally and elsewhere. Cause the stressors are coming, man. They're here.

That's, that's super interesting. You know, as a ER doctor that burned out in the ER and was just kind of done, I was depressed. You know, it didn't, there wasn't any job satisfaction. My relationships were suffering, my wife and kids and all of that was just really hard. And then. Now, you know, got open some doors and now I'm a direct primary care doctor and I get to enjoy being a doctor again and still, but now I'm running a company and I've got 25 employees and you know, it's one thing after another and you know, today was a long day of just bam, bam, bam, bam.

It was all patient care, which is fun, but there wasn't, I mean, I, you know, drank a little water, I used the restroom a couple of times, I think, right? Like it was one of those days. And, you know, when we got onto this podcast, I hadn't had a chance to like take a breath and sort of move into that space. I would say I was definitely a sympathetic overloaded. kind of short mess, right? And so even just having a chance to sort of internalize and grade myself on your pillars has been sort of settling and exhaling for a minute, which has been really, really nice.

Oh, very cool. Yeah. By the way, it's a first step for anybody on the path to resilience. is being able to assess where you are right here, right now in the moment as you start that journey. And if people go to my website, drstephensidoroff.com, they can get my free resilience assessment booklet where I describe what each of the pillars is about. And then there's a questionnaire they can take. self-score and they can get their own personal resilience profile along my nine dimensions. So it's a great starting point.

That's a fun exercise for, let's see, what is today?

Leadership, Health, and Performance 31:45

Yesterday, actually, I had my monthly scheduled counseling appointment because I know I'm going to need it. I've got one scheduled for next month. You know, and it's, it's really as much about telling the score as it is about, you know, learning some trick, count to 10 before you get mad kind of stuff. It's really just more about sort of learning to look, to check my own pulse, right? To take, to introspect a little bit. That exercise would be super interesting, I think. Well, okay. So for practical takeaways for the crew, the folks listening, I would say definitely, and we'll put all of Dr.

Sidoroff's. information in the show notes and a link to his website and a way to get that, to go through that booklet and take the questionnaire. What are some, I don't know, some warning signs that someone would say, ah, you know, I do pretty good. I mean, life is hard, but of course I do pretty good. What are some warning signs that maybe we're over or under adapting or some things that people, it's almost become normal place. in society, you know, hey, how are you doing? Busy, busy, busy, right?

That's the same thing as it used to be. We used to say fine. And now we just say busy. What can people be on the lookout for? Well, first of all, just taking the example you just gave, I think I would, to begin with, say that the goal is not to just be okay, but you want to feel great. You want to be thriving, not just surviving. And most of us, quite frankly, You know, feel like the baseline is about surviving. I'm doing okay. I have no emergencies, nothing that's terrible that's happening. In fact, a lot of people go through their day and at the end of the day, they breathe a sigh of relief because they made it through the day.

It was okay. Nothing bad happened. And I like to say that a lot of us, if you think about the whole range of experience in life. There's a midpoint here, like baseline, and then below it is negative and above it is positive. Most people try to get to the baseline. Most people kind of function based on baseline and not going into negative territory. If you do that, you're never going to spend much time in this positive place of joy and happiness. And so the first thing I say to people is aim higher.

Aim for thriving. Aim for being happy, aim for being joyful. And if you're not, that's a sign that something is off. It's not just being at baseline. In fact, back to what I was saying earlier about emotional unfinished business and pushing our emotions down. When we do that, we don't only do it in our heads. Our whole body is an accomplice in holding down our feelings and numbing ourselves. And when we do that, we interfere with the flow of energy in our body. And if you interfere with the flow of energy in the body, it makes it more difficult to feel joy and happiness.

Joy and happiness is a full body experience. You know, just like laughter, laughter is. So, you know, people should pay attention. Are you just trying to get through the day or are you excited about your day? Do you have your little aches and pains and you just say, well, that's part of life? Well, it doesn't have to be part of life. Are you on medication and feel like, well, this again, just part of life? With me, anytime I notice a symptom, Anytime I notice some tension in my body, I take ownership of it.

I take responsibility of it. And I think, what do I need to do different? What's going on? Let me be alert to what I may be doing that is causing this that I can then do differently. Yeah. We're all in the aging process, right? But we have control over how fast or slow we age. And I want to encourage everybody to think about how they have some power to literally slow the aging process. If you think of any illness, any illness, the number one factor in whether you get that illness is aging. more than anything else.

So if you slow the aging process, you slow down the potential and the chances of getting any kind of illness. So that's how I'm about to turn 79. But I make sure that I'm out mountain biking, rollerblading, racquetball, doing those kinds of things. But I also take time to do biofeedback, which is a way of retraining my body into a place of balance. and meditate. So it's not, do I have time for these things? It's that I don't have time not to do these things. So that's the beginning level of advice that I give to everybody.

Make the decision. that you want to take control of your life, make the decision that you want to learn to do it better, make the decision. So my book is, you can get my book anywhere, The Nine Pillars of Resilience, The Proven Path to Master Stress, Flow Aging, and Increased Vitality. By the way, I went into a highly stressed hospital ward with my program, a two month program. And at the end of that program, the people who took my program, we actually found a significant decrease in blood pressure, a significant reduction of physical symptoms that are able to handle stress and greater satisfaction in life.

So that is available to everybody, but you have to make the decision. Yes, I want that. And then you have to hold the intention to follow through. and do some program to help you achieve that? Yeah, aim higher. And then the question is how? And the answer is let us help you. I love that. Absolutely love that. The same question a different way for these businesses that, you know, and these, you know, people that want to skip right to the top of the pyramid and go straight for getting things done.

power, if you will, you know, that, that one sits on top of the others for a reason. What do you, you know, for those like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't, yeah, the other stuff's great. Emotional junk, whatever, that's for them at their house. How do I get people to be productive? How do you sort of take, reset that and, and where do you start with those conversations? That, that would be fun. Yeah. Well, it's very interesting because one of the things that we are learning and demonstrating in my quantum leadership podcast is that the leaders who are very much in alignment with my model of resilience.

In fact, many of them have read my book. They follow all the notions that I'm giving you right now and their businesses are doing great. All their businesses are doing great. So you don't have to make a choice between your health and performance. When you take care of your health, performance will follow. If you're a leader and you take care of the health of the people in your company, they perform better, they're more creative, and the company does better. So what I say to people who feel like they don't have time for it, I tell them as well as you're doing, if you follow my model of resilience, not only will you be healthier, but you'll actually get better results than you're getting right now.

Absolutely. I mean, if your frontal lobe is only half active because you're in a sympathetic fight or flight state most of the time, You can't, you can't, you could be doing so much better. Man, thank you, Dr. Sidoroff. That's, that was fun. And quite frankly, I'm in a better place than I was when we started. And if nothing else, that's a win, you know? So thanks for coming on.

Closing Remarks and Resources 40:45

If you and I were next to each other, I would say it's because you're picking up my heart rate pattern. There you go. I don't know if it, I don't know if it goes across long distances like this. Yeah, that'd be a research project, isn't it? Yeah. Well, I will say that the, you know, like a direct primary care practice like this one where we spend all of our, we spend an hour with each patient and we, we get way past the how you're doing fine. really turn into sort of a counselor of sorts, unfortunately, poorly trained in that exactly, but ultimately this kind of approach at helping people be healthier by being more resilient, you know, emotionally, physically, spiritually, all of those.

This is quite, quite useful. And then leading my own team, right? My team, proud of them. They're amazing, but gosh, man. leading 25 people is, you know, and counting, right? It's hard. And it's getting that culture, that place where we want them to thrive and we actually care about them is this kind of stuff is invaluable. It's probably the way to go. So I can't wait to check it out. Check out the book, check out the booklet and the testing and all of that stuff. What else, so you got your website.

Where else can we follow you, get ahold of you if we need something? Well, the best place is drstefancitoroff.com. I have a bunch of articles that I've written that are published in Psychology Today. If you go to Psychology Today and look up my name, you'll see a bunch of my articles there as well. Those are the best places. And then, of course, check out my Quantum Leadership Podcast. I was going to say, it's on my short list already. That sounds fun because Right. The other thing I've learned along this trip is everybody's a leader, right?

Everyone is responsible for, has influence over someone else. And the better you are at that, the better that ends up working out for everybody involved. Thank you so much for coming on. That was great. My wife and family, thank you. Cause I'm going home with a little bit of a higher parasympathetic tone than I had coming in. And I look forward to talking again soon. That was awesome. All right. Sounds great. Thank you. And we're going to have you on my podcast as well. Oh, I can't wait. Hopefully I can add something.

That'll be fun. All right. All right. Thank you. Bye. Thanks for joining me today on My MD Unscripted. I hope today's conversation opened your mind and inspired you to imagine a better path for your health and therefore life. If you found value in this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone passionate about transforming health care. Real change starts with real conversation. So let's keep them going. Until next time, stay well, stay curious and never stop pushing for better.