Health and Wellness Industry Exposed | Ep. 7 | Jeff Cohen

Podcast Intro and Guest Introduction 0:00

Welcome to Healthy Point of View podcast where we explore the latest trends and topics in health and wellness. Whether you're looking for tips on nutrition, fitness, mental health, or anything in between, we've got you covered. Join us as we chat with experts, share stories, and learn how to live a healthier and happier life. Welcome to a Healthy Point of View podcast with your host, Sam Tahata. Today we have a special guest. He is an expert in the field of law, healthcare to be exact. This guy here, he speaks at some of the biggest conferences.

he leads a team of expert attorneys in healthcare field. Part of that, where they specialize in our industry, which is the health and wellness, modern medicine, and Who we have here today, we've have Jeff Cohen. So Jeff, Cohen, how you doing? Good man, it's good seeing you. Awesome man. Yeah. All right. I'm glad you made it. South Florida, you don't know. With that traffic. You have no idea. Yeah, it was that time of year. So I always love to keep my teeth nice, especially because I'm out socializing and stuff.

And part of health and wellness, the leading cause of heart disease is gum disease. Yeah. I hate that. Because it means I got to go more frequently than I want to. My mom's a dental hygienist. Oh, so I grew up with sharp things in my mouth all the time Okay, she was always and they did it old school, you know, they didn't have any I was wondering why you had like perfect. Oh they were just going digging at it like entrenching tools in My mouth Wow. Yeah all that was normal. Yes So when I moved down to Florida, it took me a while to find a good dental hygienist that's nice and gentle and stuff.

And I finally found one close to my house in Coconut Creek, and I go there. Today I was running late, there, go figure. She was a little bit rough on me, so I don't know if she was just mad that I went in late or something. You didn't tell her you had to be out fast, did you? No. Hey, take your time. Take your times, right. Awesome, man. Today I wanna talk about some of the stuff that's happening in our industry. The industry of health, wellness, the med spas, IV space, regenerative medicine. You've been in this field for a long, long time.

I think the listeners should understand how you and I got to know each other. There was some energy that brought us together that we didn't even know about, which is Dr.

Dr. Willix and the Path into Wellness 2:34

Willix. which the book that I wrote, How to Win in Modern Wellness, you have a chapter in there talking about some of the healthcare law stuff of what's happening in the space. Dr. Willix, You actually knew him probably well before I did. So let's talk about a little bit of that relationship and about how you got into this industry and knowing the people that you know, because you've been in it for quite a while. Yeah, 36. You know what, this is year 37, which is really weird, It's older than my kids.

I mean, it's strange. Like, let's, that's a big number. You want me to scare you? You know, when I talk about it, It is just strange and it is weird to talk About the ages of my kid. My oldest one is 33 and she's married. And I'm like, man, I don't feel like I've been here that long. I've been here that long. Yeah. So Bob, I got to tell you the Willex thing. I was with a group of people that were talking about the issue of spirituality in the workplace, like that would be a good thing, and it came on the recognition that the Dalai Lama is associated with the group called the Spirit at Work, which is the idea that human beings are at work and they need a place for spirituality to kind of be there and to be alive for them as well in the workplace.

So we were looking at that issue and in walks this guy that we're introduced to as Dr. Bob and he don't look like a doctor. He's wearing a cowboy hat and wearing some boots and all that stuff. And he tells, he uses the word shaman a number of times. And through the entire first meeting that I meet him, I'm thinking, is it shamen? Is it Shaman? I've never heard the term before. I have no idea. So that's the beginning of meeting him. It opened a doorway into total life transformation. That's awesome.

He became a remarkable mentor, wonderful, perfect mentor for me. And such an interesting guy, and I want the listeners to kind of really picture this Dr. Willix, because you mentioned part of it, like the cowboy hat. You're talking about a extremely smart doctor who was an open-heart surgeon, right, that is a vegan and a yogi, who's also like a shaman, who pulls up on his big Harley Davidson, wearing some knee-high cowboy boots and a vest, and it's just like, what the heck is going on here, but it just cool as shit.

I mean, cool dude. And in his spare time, he's a triathlete. Oh, yeah. I mean, that was, right. At age 75, he was competing for the Ironman. Crazy, crazy. Wildman, the best. So he my mentor, and I know he your mentor in different ways and whatnot, you know, doing some of the natural healing, which I find that extremely cool. You being a healthcare attorney in our industry, but you don't just practice law in your industry. practice what everyone else is doing. You actually live, breathe this type of stuff.

Like you're doing all the health and wellness stuff, you understand the natural medicine, the Shaman stuff so talk to me a little bit about that and what got you into all this health of wellness. I think it was growing up in my family. My dad's a pharmacist. And I grew up on a stool running a cash register watching him make medicine You know the dry ice would come in every day and he would make Medicine and make syrups and Make pills and literally I was fascinated by what he was doing and One day I asked him, I was a little boy, you know, like, why do you do this?

And he told me he just loves helping people. Awesome. You know so I watched him in his pharmacy, a Little Independent Pharmacy called Perrine Center Pharmasy. And I watch him change the lives of people, these people it was across the street from a ghetto area, Perine, and the people would come in, call him Dr. Harris, he's not a doctor, But for a lot of people, he was the closest thing to health care and wellness that they were going to find. So he wasn't just filling scripts. He was like, let me help you find a solution to what's bothering you.

That's awesome. And he, you know, I was born in 1960 and here I am in this pharmacy economically kind of underserved area, if you will. And I just watched my dad treat everybody with remarkable respect. I never saw him be unkind or impatient. He's a remarkable guy, he's 90 years old today. Oh wow, is he still alive? Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah he lives in John Knox Village with my mom who's 89. And my moms just this vibrant woman, she's eighty-nine. remarkable lady, and she's a dental hygienist.

And she just lights up being around people and loves everyone. I tell people this about my parents. Never. And I never saw them treat each other with disrespect. They fought a few times in front of me, but it was never horribly ugly or scarring or traumatic to me. Just they're remarkable people. That's awesome. It's gotta be pretty exciting to hang out with them. My dad was talking, even when I was a teenager, about this thing called HMO. And back in the time that that issue came up, they would like Humana Gold, Humanna Silver, and there was nothing else.

And so he was fascinated by it. So we would talk about that stuff around the dinner table. Yeah, so healthcare was... was there. You were exposed to it from a young age. I remember actually you giving me a tour of your office. Yep. And you showed me the, I don't know. QRS and that. Well the thing that you're, when he would mix the medications.

Family Pharmacy Roots and Early Health Interests 8:40

Oh, the mortar and pestle. Yeah, yeah, but the funny thing you didn't mention is that little weird press that's on there too. Right. Are those things he actually used? Dude, he used to make suppositories. That's disgusting. Ah, oh I remembered that one. Man, who's getting those big ones? Horrible, right? But that was right in his pharmacy, the mortar and pestle. That was the one he used. And the press that he would use for the suppositories, that's the ones he use. So I have that right there in my office together with his army hat.

Little antique museum. I love it. in this culture where people just care a lot about other people and want to help them. My mom's that way, my dad's the way. And that's how I was wired. I'm connected to them and so I am that kind of guy too. Always thinking about I wonder how it can make a positive difference and then this healthcare thing was right there. and I got fascinated by it personally when I about 18 and this idea that somebody could look at your irises and check out your current state of health and alter it, they tended to be chiropractors that were doing it.

They were called iridologists. Oh, interesting. So I was fascinated by that and then applied kinesiology, because they would muscle test to see what you needed. And I'm 18 years old, it's 1978, and I am thinking two things. Number one, this is super cool, which really stoked my interest in healthcare stuff that works, especially healthcare that people don't know about. So from an early age, I wanted to know about what would really work for people, what will help people. Especially if it's not something that's widely known.

I know with the whole kinesial stuff, it became very popular when you started seeing a lot of people wearing the kinezial tape, you know, the athletes. And then you start seeing more of that Eastern medicine integrating with Western medicine. Which I mean, with years of being exposed just through your parents, right? you've seen just on the pharmacy side, from traditional pharmacy to now all this compounding pharmacy stuff, which obviously I know you know about it because you help us with some of the legal stuff when it comes to compound.

So that's gotta be unbelievable, just seeing that change. guinea pig myself like I would hear about something I'd be like oh I got to try that right so you know for better and for worse it's like i gotta try everything yeah that's how I am too yeah so I gotta check it out yeah. So one day to to Willix one-day Bob says to me I'm complaining about um I''m tired at like two or three in the afternoon every day. How old are you? 41. 41 okay. I was having this conversation with him. And I'm also riding my bike all the time and I suck in the Time Trials, I am kind of towards the end.

I ride my ass off and just can't really make progress in cycling and and i'm tired. He's like well let's check out your your blood level for testosterone. And i represented some HRT clinics at the but i figured you know i gotta check this out so because Bob said so. And he says, congratulations, you have the testosterone level of a 70-year-old man. Classic. Sounds like Dr. Willicks. All the sensitivity that you'd expect from Bob, it just lets me have it. And I think it was like 450 at the time, total.

I'm like, oh, well, do you anything for that? He's like yeah, take down your drawers, and then he shoots me with one ml of testosterone. Okay, I'll see how that is. I have all the energy I need for everything. Like I don't wanna go to sleep. And I'm like, all right, how do I keep getting more of that? So that was my intro into testosterone. Okay. Of course, over time that branched into things like peptides and because I got interested in the biohacking as well. Then of course I had to guinea pig myself with all that.

I was doing the nutraceutical stuff since I about 19. because I was in, I forgot about this, but I'm a program manager for a place called Earth House in New Jersey when I 19 years old. And it was based on the nutraceutical studies of a guy named Carl Pfeiffer. He wrote a book called Mental and Elemental Nutrients. And they have this treatment center for schizophrenics. And at the time, when I was young, I really loved working with people with mental challenges, mental health issues, or they had Down syndrome or something like that.

I thought that's what I'm going to spend my life doing, working people those challenges. So I got this job as program manager at Earth House. I read the book, you know, because I've got to administer the program, I got understand this stuff. So I start taking all these nutraceuticals. Well, if you flash forward, i'm now 40 years old. I have been taking nutriceuticals forever. Now it's testosterone. And I hear about peptides. My buddy Bruce Burtman tells me all about those and I'm like, oh I can have some.

And so I start treating with everybody. Let me try that guy, let me this guy. Just to learn and to see what things feel like. And I've been treated by pretty much all those professionals that you know. You know like everybody in the industry. I always hear you bring the names up. Yeah, I know them all and I love them and love what they do and how they push into you know, what conventional medicine would call experimental. And me, it's like, that just intrigues me more. Call it experimental, I wanna check it out.

I want to see what it feels like. You know everything that you're saying, It actually reminds me of Dr. Willis's last book, The Rejuvenation Solution. He signed the book for me, and this was right before he passed away. And what he wrote on there, he said, the future of medicine where you can reverse disease will be dependent on epigenetic testing, nutrition supplementation and peptide therapy. Truth to be said that's what's happening right now. And it's happening, and it is happening quickly now.

It is. And its accelerating. Its interesting to me. You know, being in healthcare business and healthcare regulatory for 36 years, what used to be health was the only thing that was really available. it was just healthcare, which back then and today really means insurance-based medication and health care solutions, surgery and things like that. But what's happened in the past, I don't know, 20-something years is the emergence of wellness. And now we have this divergence of healthcare and wellness, healthcare is what is compensated for by a policy of insurance, wellness is which you pay for cash.

There's this remarkable swelling of demand by the public. for wellness. It's not gradual, it's geometric. But it also seems on the healthcare side that people's financial responsibilities are broadening and the scope of services is narrowing. So people are expecting less and less out of insurance-based healthcare. and they're taking more and more responsibility for cash-based wellness because they demand to feel better, look better. Right, right. And that kind of falls into that taking that more proactive, preventative approach to your health.

So speaking of that, you know, obviously you being as a healthcare attorney and leading in the industry as as healthcare what are some of the regulatory things that you're starting to see as the industry keeps on growing, you know, not just with the IV nutrient space, but regenerative medicine, the wellness side, medical aesthetics, to med spas. You know I'm pretty sure you have like a whole arsenal of stories that could tell us of things happening.

Testosterone, Peptides, and Biohacking 16:50

Tell us a little bit about some other things are happening, what people need to kind of like watch out for, and you get them really thinking before they do. Yeah, I think that the greatest thing in the wellness space is that it's so patient demand driven or something about the human spirit. of wanting to be happy and healthy that's just driving that. And that also the biggest challenge in the wellness space. Because people will walk in to your business, whether it's HRT or IV hydration or Regen, and tell you what to do.

If you're a clinician, you understand the importance of sticking to the basic protocol, which is diagnose, prescribe, treat, document. But if you're a business person and you don't know about that, then you'll let the patients drive the protocol. to a degree that gets you off the mark and puts the licenses of the professionals in the space at risk. Well, I've never heard it that way. That makes sense, especially with Dr. Google that's out there, right? These patients, they think they know everything there is to it, and they're walking in and pretty much telling you what to do and how to treat them.

I think it's probably the biggest threat to the wellness industry. One of things I also see that is interesting but also concerning to me is integration. And what I mean is the collapse of IV hydration, HRT, Med Spa and Regen into a single platform. Right. So we see people who start in the shallowest end of the pool from a clinical perspective and from regulatory perspective, and they're just doing IV hydrations. And they say, I got all these patients I may as well offer, fill in blank, Regen, Med Spa, and some of that is also kind of shallow end of the pool stuff when you're talking about Botox and filters.

It's pretty shallow in the whole, although you can get eye drop if you do it wrong and do some other things like that. But when you're looking at HRT and you are looking Regen, you really need to know what you doing. And you need understand that it's a higher regulatory risk and a high clinical risk. So it is not one size fits all. I don't know if it helpful to your listeners, but one perspective of a consumer is this. It's my perspective. When I walk in to a law firm or an accounting firm, or a wellness place, and they say they do everything, I'm gonna keep walking.

I don't want to go to a place that does everything. You want people that specialize in a certain area. Bingo, that's what I want. So I wanna know who's best at IV hydration, who is best that HRT, whose best it Regen and all that stuff. And it may be that there are some people who are great at all of it, but I am very doubtful as a consumer, I just wanna go the specialist. Right, right. And I see it. I mean, you know, with Liquivita, we started with IV hydration. Obviously, throughout my years of working with Dr.

Willix and Cinegenics, I started integrating a lot of these other modalities and the different services. So we've become almost like that one stop shop. But I could tell you as being in the industry doing that, it's not easy. It takes a lotta work. And exactly what you said is people are looking for those people that specialize in certain areas. So what we had to do is actually put people in these individual departments to lead them and actually become the experts. in that department, if you will.

Right, and you know what, Sam? I mean this sincerely. I know you well enough to know, because we've spent time, I see what you do, you won't do anything just for the money. There's a bigger purpose here. I think that's where you and I vibe a lot and we talk about different things that we're doing in the industry, which is not just for us to fill our pockets, right? You know, speaking at these big conferences and meeting with a lotta other leaders in industry. It's like, we do have a purpose behind what we try to do.

We're trying to help people. Right, and to it the right way. Just do the thing, do it right thing and do next right. And that's sometimes missing in the healthcare space. It may be that you might have four times the number of franchisees if that wasn't as important to you. But I know you're not putting something in place that doesn't deliver exactly the way. I mean, even the ways you lay out a facility is all about the customer experience and the quality of that place. And you and I both know, because we've been in other facilities, not everybody thinks that way.

Not everybody puts that attention to detail and integrity in place. And that means a lot to me. I appreciate that. You know, every day I'm learning and figuring out how to do it even better, you know? And collaborating with other people and figure out now how make that happen. So now for the listeners, because we have a bunch of doctors, right? Liquivita has a huge network of doctor, over 4,000 doctors that tune into the podcast. And then we got a lot of the end consumers that utilize our services that listen in also.

On the consumer side, What are some of the things that some these consumers, they get a little bit worried because they see things on TV. Oh, this is not legal. They can't be doing exosomes. I can do this. Can't do that. The peptides. Now the stuff with the FDA. Tell me something about that that we could tell the consumers to give them some peace of mind before just jumping to conclusion with what they say about

Healthcare vs. Wellness and Industry Growth 22:40

these regulatory things are coming up. You know, I think the regulatory responsibility is in the hands of the provider. When the public starts looking around at what the FDA has to say about this or that, or the Board of Medicine, the board of nursing, it's incredibly confusing to them because they don't work in that space. I mean, as a healthcare lawyer, i track all that stuff all over the country and that's normal for me. And as a provider in this space, you have to do the same thing. So for a patient, I would say this.

Find a trusted advisor. Pick a quarterback. I like that. Stop trying to be a clinical quarterback I see it all the time where people you know they they think they can research in an hour or a day what it's taken people years to understand and synthesize right and it it just a bad approach for the public to play clinician. Yeah, that's like that saying. I've heard it since I was a kid. It's, like, every great athlete has a coach. That's right. You gotta have a Coach. And even us that are in leadership roles in the field, I have coach, you know?

And I go to other people, for them to coach me on certain things. Now, the actual practitioners in industry, A lot of practitioners are trying to get away from traditional medicine. They're stuck working in the ERs and you've seen it after COVID, people just got sick and tired of dealing with the craziness. What would you say are the top three steps that these medical practitioners that are just getting into this modern wellness world What are the top three steps that they should actually consider more on a legal standpoint so they can actually structure their business the right way?

Yeah, I mean, assuming that they've got the clinical foundation in place, however they do that, whether it's with your training or A4M or whatever it is that do, they really need to understand what the legal landscape is. And that's a function of knowing what laws are and what regulators are doing with those laws. It's not the same thing. It sounds I always resist saying this but they have to find a lawyer that that's what they do Don't find the lawyer. That's learning this stuff because you're gonna learn with them Which means you are gonna get a little information and you gonna pay them to learn a big bill Yeah, don't do that.

Yeah find somebody that thats what the do every day and they know What the regulatory threats are. I think it's easy to see what the current state of the law is It's less easy. To see with the. Current state-of-the-law is going to be and somebody who spends decades in this space Their job is to read the tea leaves and the signs and signals to know what's coming and prepare their clients to to To meet those challenges I always say healthcare, especially IV hydration, it's really easy to get into.

It's really easy to get into. It is not easy stay in. Why? Because all of the complexity that you miss when you just put yourself in business is the complex that your going to need to stay business. What's the scope of practice? What kind of regulatory pressure is there on the stuff that want to use whether it's peptides or testosterone, what's the current state and the trend of telemedicine so you can onboard people with testosterone? What is all of that stuff? And what are the winds of change and how are they blowing today?

Because that's what is really predicting what's going to happen with the restrictions you're going have to live with. So I always tell people, you know, it's really important to kind of, people say, you have to kind of aim for where the ball is gonna be. You have kind to aim where where industry is going to be and then you create more sustainability. Not complete because it's dynamic. These laws in every state, they change at least once a year. That's one thing, what you just said. Every state is different.

And especially this world of social media that we live in, you'll get a medical practitioner that you see on social medial doing some kind of procedure or having the esthetician injecting Botox and all of a sudden you think it's okay to do some of these procedures or have this estetician do Botax and it is okay in their state, but oh boy, if you do it over here.

Regulatory Risks in IV Therapy and Med Spas 27:45

It's like, I have a franchise in Arizona. and they're legally allowed to use naturopathic doctors. You bring up the name natiropathy doctor here in Florida. They're ready to put you in jail. What you said there is extremely important for people to understand. Depending the state you're in, right, you need to find an advisor, a law firm that can go ahead and get that information for you, your law from that does that, which I know, I no one. One that I use quite frequently. So, you guys are fantastic at that.

Jeff, one of the things that keeps getting brought up to me, and you and I have talked about this multiple times, I had a friend of mine who's a state representative that reached back out to me, you know, because this thing is back on the table, right? You're talking about this law? Yep, yep, with the IV hydration. And I think a lot of people are just like wondering what the heck is happening, yeah, give us a little bit, so people can kind of understand, this whole mess and kind what can happen, what might not happen.

What some of these IV hydration clinics should be doing to prepare for it, how they can support the rest of the people that are trying to go against it or whatever. Let's just talk about it. The comment that makes sense to make is that people need to be aware of the landscape within which regulations happen. If you want to in a healthcare business, you need understand how the law happens. People say, there's two things in life you don't want see being made. One is sausage and the other is law. But it's really, really true.

And the Belay case is exactly one of those examples. It's a great example, not just for Florida, but all over the country. There was a young lady, she was studying to be a nurse. She worked in a physician's office that was doing IV hydration, among other things. And the physician staff administered an overdose of selenium and killed her, killed this young woman. It was horrible. The compound pharmacy, which supplied the bag, the IV bag did what they always did. They provide a sterile bag. You get stored in the physicians office.

the Physician gets it, hangs it. and the physician's staff injects an overdose of selenium and kills this young woman. Really, what you have is a medical malpractice situation. Is it a situation that compels a closer look at the pharmacy and say, maybe the pharmacist isn't doing things right? It does not. It has nothing to do with the pharmacies. Did the physicians get sued? They did not, the technical reason is that the steps necessary to sue the doctor were not taken. So all that was left to the family of the nurse was to Sue the pharmacy.

And so the Pharmacy ended up writing a check to settle on a confidential basis. They settled the case. Really what you have is a medical malpractice situation. What happens? A legislator says, I'm going to put together a law that really regulates this industry, the implication being that the IV hydration industry is problematic from a clinical quality or safety perspective. And you know what? If the reason for that assumption is the Belay case, that's absolutely misplaced. It's absolute nonsense.

One of the things that people need to understand, and I think they do in our culture because of social media and the info platforms that are so robust, Legislators get an office and stay in office. That's their primary drive. Get an offer, stay an officer. They have to earn that. You have the champion an issue. you have be the people's protector in the area that you represent. And that's understandable. But they sometimes take an issues that isn't an issued and ride that three-legged horse into the legislature.

into the legislative process, a proposal to fix something that doesn't necessarily need to be fixed. And if you look at that law, did it have a compound pharmacy person at the table making sure that that was well done? Nope. Did it had an IV hydration nurse at table? giving input to create a really great bill and maybe a very good law to protect the industry and patients? Nope. Did it have a physician at the table with right clinical input, to really define the problem and solve a problem? Not at all.

Wow. So you got a bunch of people making these new regulations that know nothing about what they're putting together. Yep. That's crazy. What you get is you legislative junk food, empty calories. Right. that's what we got. I look at that and of course I wrote on it because it pisses me off. It's like how is it that this is allowed to happen? Of course the bottom line is, you know what? If the industry doesn't align and doesn' communicate with the newspaper, doesn''t communicate with the legislature, then what do you expect the legislator to do?

They're gonna take the information they got, they're going to the best they can. It's like garbage in, garbage out. That law is garbage. Is garbage! Yeah, because ultimately, the situation that occurred, that can happen with any medication. And it happens, yeah, and so when you look at, for example, the FDA list, when they came out with the peptide list and they're targeting what? BPC 157? Are you kidding me? And if you at the FD comments for half of the stuff on the Peptide List, it says, well, we can find no evidence that it's good.

and we can find no evidence that it's bad, so therefore it suspect. Well, with no adverse effects or anything, they're just, it just makes it. Nonsense. Don't produce it anymore because we don't have anything. That doesn't make any sense. It doesn' make sense Give me the good or the bad. They don' have either. But if you see that and you understand that, and that's how law gets made, okay, you can deal with the reality of it, what does that require? It requires the industry to come together and to communicate with these lawmaking bodies, to be a source of expertise, and really help them sharpen their pen, define problems that really exist, then solve those problems in an effective way.

That's what the industry has to do. IV hydration providers and other wellness providers, they either need to define quality for themselves or it's gonna get defined at them by people who have no background, no qualifications to do it, which is exactly what we see in the Belay case. That's, we don't want that. So, and you already know how I am, is I'm gonna take a stance to it and I gonna push collectively with other people in the industry to get the right message out. You know, so that's where I met with it.

But this is good coming from you because I get asked this question about this stuff almost every single day. I got a text message and people are asking me and it's like, well, I've not really got it, give you the advice on it, but I think this podcast that I'm gonna do will kinda give ya a little bit of clarification, you know, the most important part that want people to kinda take out of what you said is we have to stay united and work together towards making sure that we end up regulating ourselves rather than someone else starting to regulate us.

We have established that. Yeah, that's absolutely critical. And if you look at every healthcare industry or healthcare profession, They have organizations that do that because you can't practice medicine or practice nursing all day and also go up to Tallahassee and deal with that stuff. I mean, one of the most bizarre examples of this is a media issue that happened in Texas where, again, a woman is working at an IV hydration place, takes home a Myers cocktail, and self-administers and dies. And the press got a hold of it in Texas and talked about the dangers of IV-hydration industry.

Wow. But what really happened in that case is one of her coworkers was a homicidal maniac. that injected poison in the bag that he knew she was going to take home. She self-administered poison unknowingly and died. Did the press pick that up? Nope. They just want to tell a stupid story. That'll be the Netflix that'll pick it up. Exactly. These are some crazy stories, man. Crazy stories.

Industry Self-Regulation and AVA Leadership 36:30

Oh boy, so this is what we're up to, and we gotta just keep our right thinking caps on as we keep on growing our businesses. So, Jeff, what do you see as the next big thing for you, related to the industry? What's the big next thing? Well, I think the thing is really Ava, the American IV Association, of AVA and its affiliates into really serving as a round table for what quality means and best practices and things like that. And also serving a voice of expertise for legislative bodies around the country and for the media around country too.

I agree and as you know, I've put myself that I wanna be in a leadership role with AVA, which Ava stands for American Ivy Association. So these are things that we're gonna be working towards, you know, for this upcoming year. And I think all of the listeners that are listening to this podcast should really start looking into Aava and what we'll gonna share the contact information will be listed below on the, on this YouTube podcast and also on Spotify and everything else. But this is important for people to participate and be part of it.

You know, having a membership for it is inexpensive versus what can really happen down the line. And it's always great to be kept in the know. I always get people, you know, I did the podcast, and I get, oh, heard you on the podcasts, Ava Podcasts, man, people are going on that website. So, which is awesome. Huge plus. Jeff, tell us something interesting about yourself that the regular person would not know about. I've always put people on a spot with this one. Something interesting that most people just wouldn't know.

You know, I wrote a couple books. Well, my business partner, Autumn, called The Next 50 Feet, which is all about all the stuff that we learned in the personal service space in a law firm, but it's translatable to any personal services. We did it because we believe that the journey that we take isn't complete unless you share all the good stuff. All the secrets, all of the value. And then I wrote another book called The Wolf That Wins, which is really- Yeah, you gave me a copy of that. Yeah. Which is about a lot of it, meeting Bob and what I learned and it took me to and how it changed my life.

There's an interview that I saw when I was a lot younger that really informs a lotta what I do in my live. It's and interview between Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers. And Joseph Campel talks about human archetypes. And I remember watching this, and it didn't really make an impact when I saw it when was in my 30s. But when it was about 50, in 40s, 50 maybe, it really came to life for me. And Joseph Campbell was talking about something called The Hero's Journey. Where the hero encounters the dragon, slays the dragons, learns things from slaying the Dragon, And then brings those lessons back to his community.

Books, Legacy, and Closing Remarks 39:45

and that became incredibly inspiring for me to live the life, live a journey, learn things, and just share everything that I learned. That's the completion of that cycle. that's fulfillment of this life for my. I love that. And that that truly how you leave legacy behind. Yeah. Awesome. So Jeff, the listeners here, where can they find you? They can find me at Florida health care law firm. They could find be at J Cohen at floridahealthcarelawfirm.com they can't find the on my office number 561-455-7700 also a place to reach me and Jeff has tons of.

Additional content coming out, you know, one of the things that disruptors, right? The industry disruptor. So all cool stuff. Also, man, Jeff, it was a pleasure having you on the podcast. Is there anything else you want to share with people? No, I'm just really excited to be here and great to create stuff with you. Some people say, you know, like, what lights you up the most in life? And I say creating great shit with great people. And that's what we do. That's my best day and I do a lot of those.

Brother, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast and there's gonna be a little more coming. So all of you guys, make sure you subscribe, Like, comment, do all the good stuff that you do and again, thank you for listening in on a healthy point of view podcast. Check us out for the next one. you