Full Transcript Introduction and guest background 0:00 A lot of people are like, I have so many patients that they can't, the children with eczema cannot tolerate stuff on their skin. 0:05 They'd be, everything burns, water burns air burns wind burns. 0:09 Sometimes we don't even use anything on there because it's so painful. 0:12 We just work with the inside because the staff lives here. 0:15 we rebalance that here, we decrease it on the insight, less of it coming outside. 0:20 All of a sudden we have less red itchy skin without having to put any topicals on. 0:25 Welcome to the Integrative Medicine Roundtable, where practitioners lead, brought to you by the North Carolina Integrated Medical Society, 0:32 join integrative health care leaders, clinicians and innovators as they share practical insights, emerging research, and the conversations shaping the 0:40 future of patient care. 0:45 Hello, this is the Integrative Medicine Roundtable where practitioners lead. 0:50 I'm Dr. 0:50 Lisa Broyles, board member with NCIMS, and I have the privilege to interview Dr Anna Maria Temple, MD. 0:57 So she is a holistic pediatrician and an expert in eczema. 1:05 Hey guys, I'm so excited to be here. 1:06 I am Dr. 1:07 Anna Maria Temple. 1:08 My specialty is eczema and my mission is to help families raise healthy kids with less medications. 1:14 So I can't wait for this interview and get a little bit deeper into what exema is and how should we be thinking about it. 1:21 Yeah. 1:22 So my question is, eczema rates continue to rise. 1:25 I mean, I know as a family medicine practitioner, i am just seeing cases explode. 1:29 Can you talk to us about what your evidence-based holistic approach is? 1:33 Yeah, and you know, uh,I've observed the same thing and the data supports that. 1:38 In 1970, the rates of ectoma were one in 15. Today,the rates are one and five. 1:44 And I will argue that number is lower than it should be because a lot of Western traditional doctors will dismiss eczema as a normal part of childhood. 1:53 So true. 1:54 Chronic disease is not a normally part childhood, but because it is considered normal, they're not going to report it as chronic disease, 2:00 so therefore those numbers are not seen. 2:03 Also, traditional docs are like, well, it's fine because kids are going to outgrow eczema.
Eczema trends and clinical research 2:08 So then it is not considered a chronic disease if you are just going out grow it. 2:12 That brings into the numbers. 2:16 I don't think that the number are accurate. 2:18 There is probably even more people with ectoma than we see in the literature. 2:22 Well, doctors are all about numbers and I hear that you just did a study on exima. 2:27 Can you tell us about that? 2:28 I'm so excited. 2:29 One of the things when I started on this journey was people were like, well, there's no evidence behind it. 2:34 And even though we have evidence, behind vitamin D and zinc and omega threes and probiotics and eczema, traditional doctors still like but where is the evidence? 2:43 So because of all of that and all, and we want to make, push medicine forward, we did a clinical research study where we enrolled 197 families and did 2:54 nutritional changes and supplementation over a six-month period, and we showed a 53% reduction in eczema symptoms in six months. 3:02 Wow, that is so significant. 3:04 That's got to be comparable to the rates of some of the big drugs out there. 3:08 Yeah, actually, we are performing better than Dupixent in the clinical trials. 3:12 And we have the same number of patients in their trials, so we're very comparable. 3:17 So it's not like they had thousands. 3:18 They have under 200 patients and their And so our data is really strong and I was so pumped because now when people go, there's no data behind this, 3:27 I'm like, let me show you a study published in 2026. Yes, we've got a good solid study here showing that integrative medical approaches work. 3:35 When you actually listen to the body and you look at what's deficient, what colonizing the skin, right? 3:41 I listened to your lecture yesterday and as a practitioner, i was unaware just how much staph aureus affected eczema. 3:49 Yes. 3:49 Tell me a little bit about that. 3:50 Absolutely. 3:51 So a lot of times, well, most people usually go with eczema. 3:54 They're like, what lotion should I get? 3:56 How many lotions? 3:57 And I always tell people, I'm like if you've spent over $500 in looking for lotion, you don't have a lotion deficiency. 4:04 And the reason that part of the issue is we have to focus on the skin microbiome. 4:08 as we heal from within. 4:09 And one of the issues of skin microbiome that 90% of people with eczema are over-colonized by Staph aureus, which means they have way too much Staphorus 4:20 because compared to Staf epi or other bacteria than our skin. 4:24 We know that for every one human cell, we have 10 bacterial cells, so we're like only 10% human. 4:31 So we are never going to get rid of bacteria on our skin. 4:34 We need to rebalance it. 4:35 And one of the things that Staph aureus loves is a skin pH of 7.0. It is misunderstanding in the world that we need work at a neutral pH inside our body, 4:45 yes. 4:46 On the outside of our bodies, We want a Skin pH 5.5. Nobody I don't think I didn't know this has an MD. 4:53 I think that this is incredible information So when we buy a cream over-the-counter does that cream number one address that boy? 5:00 I know that it addresses ceramides that say or addresses moisturizer But that's not simply enough because we are not dealing with rebalancing the microbiome. 5:08 So we want to look at a topical treatment or intervention that's going to decrease the pH to a 5.5 and reduce staph aureus colonization while promoting
Skin microbiome and hypochlorous acid 5:20 healthy bacteria. 5:20 Because again, we got to work on the balance to increase the topical reaction to the irritation and scratching that we see. 5:27 Okay. 5:28 So what do you recommend to decreased skin pH? 5:32 It's a hypochlorous acid. 5:33 If we're going take one takeaway today is no more bleach baths. 5:39 Bleach is toxic to the body. 5:41 We do not want to put bleach in baby's baths. 5:44 And the data behind bleach bath is so weak. 5:47 So it blows my mind that it's still the most highly recommended modality and the traditional allergist and dermatologist practices. 5:54 So no more bleach baths. 5:55 We're going to use hypochlorous acid. 5:57 There are many different formulations between 0.22 and 0,17% sprays and gels. 6:04 You can spray the children, the babies, it doesn't matter, pregnant mamas, from head to toe. 6:24 So can patients buy that over the counter? 6:26 Absolutely. 6:27 And there's different formulations. 6:29 There's active skin repair. 6:39 All starts right with a human microbiome because we know that eczema is an issue from the inside out and we see the Staph aureus on the outside and therefore 6:47 we're looking at outside issues when in fact it's an inside. 6:50 Staphorus lives inside our bodies. 6:53 It lives in our gut and because our guts is imbalanced, We have an overpopulation of Staph aureus in our gut, which comes out of our nose, 7:01 out our mouth, our butts and our vaginas and causes problems. 7:05 So if we work on decreasing it on the outside and inside, because it's not enough if you just do it outside, we've got to decrease on inside and rebalance it, 7:14 then we're going to have less stuff coming out because you can never get rid of staph. 7:19 So this isn't something that you just get from a... 7:21 I get all the time, oh, I must have sat on a public toilet. 7:24 I'm like, no, this actually probably was living inside of you and Staph aureus love sugar. 7:28 And if you eat too much sugar, you're feeding that Staphorius, which is then causing problems inside and out. 7:34 Absolutely, and on that caveat, yeast also loves sugar and other bacteria, Klebsiella, Proteus. 7:45 And again, it's always like, you know, people are like what about the parasites? 7:47 I was like y'all, before we get down the, off the rails, I'm like we, what are we putting in our bodies? 7:55 The most important part of our foundation is what we put in our body, starting with processed foods, how much processed food we're eating. 8:02 The BHA, the BHT artificial food dyes, artificial preservatives, food coloring, all that affects our skin. 8:09 And then we talk about sugar. 8:11 If we have more than 24 grams of added sugar per day, if you're over two years old, that feeds the salivaries, you can do all the things on the skin. 8:20 You can take antifungals. 8:23 If you don't address the nutrition and we still have tons of yeast and processed foods, those bacteria come back over and over again. 8:30 So you said less than twenty four grams. 8:32 Added sugar a day. 8:34 And if they're under two. 8:38 So no maple sugar, no honey, No juices. 8:42 And you know, people are like, we do not need added sugar in our life. 8:45 That's just commercial. 8:47 Like if you look at a kid's product, like a kids protein bar or a Kids cereal or kids dairy free milk. 8:55 the number one ingredient is added sugar. 8:57 So we know that children are targeted because sugar is easy and the kids will do it. 9:02 But it's not in their best interest and it is not easy long term because now you give them all the sugar when they're young,
Diet, sugar, and plant diversity 9:08 you've got to undo all of the damage when the older. 9:10 I think along those lines, You mentioned plant bites in your lecture yesterday. 9:14 Can you talk to us about plant bite? 9:16 Yeah. 9:17 Because parents know, that Children should eat more fruits and vegetables. 9:22 Fruits are easy for a lot of kids. 9:24 Vegetables are hard. 9:25 And parents get really discouraged. 9:27 They're like, ah, we have to eat more plants. 9:29 So I created this from actually the doctor that wrote the book Fiber Fueled. 9:35 He named it Plan Points. 9:37 It's a super easy way of approaching plant diversity because one plan point is one strawberry. 9:44 A giant bowl of strawberries is still one plant point. 9:46 Okay. 9:46 But if we did a strawberry, a blueberry, fruit cup, you have five or six plant points. 9:52 And that makes it more tolerable for picky eaters, selective eatters, and for parents, because now they don't have to battle a bowl a broccoli. 10:00 So one bite of broccoli, one stick carrot stick. 10:03 Yes. 10:04 One stick of a cucumber. 10:06 This even one bit of cucumber, the more we eat that. 10:10 Here's the interesting thing. 10:11 Number two things. 10:14 Our taste buds change every 30 days. 10:16 So every thirty days, a third of our taste, but change, die and new ones we get in 90 days you have all new tastebuds. 10:24 Okay. 10:24 If you were to replace dairy or replace gluten or whatever, start introducing cucumbers, if you keep at it, the taste but start changing and they adjust 10:34 to the food you eat. 10:35 Sure. 10:36 One more thing. 10:37 taste buds depend on the bacteria in our gut. 10:41 So if, let's say, a child, lets use my children when they were younger, eat Pop-Tarts and Toaster Strudels and Lucky Charms and Cinnamon Toast Crunch, 10:49 their bacteria on their gut love sugar and they're going to create signals to the brain and to taste bud, give me more sugar. 10:58 Now the child craves more. 11:00 The bacteria that love Sugar hate vegetables because vegetables are bitter. 11:05 So the more sugar we eat, the More dairy gluten we, The more we crave sweet carby things. 11:12 And so, and the, more, we reject plants with a plan point challenge. 11:16 If you take a bite of broccoli, a bit of carrots, A bite Of cucumber, And I encourage everyone to not peel their carrots. 11:23 Don't peel your cucumbers because the bacteria that love cucumbers and carrots live on the outside of the plant. 11:29 but don't peel them. 11:30 Correct. 11:31 Buy them organic and don�t peel. 11:33 Now when the child just takes one bite, that cared-loving bacteria goes in the belly. 11:38 That pepper- loving bacteria jumps in belly over time and exposure. 11:43 And now you've reduced your added sugar. 11:46 You've removed the processed foods. 11:48 So the bacteria that loves those leaves. 11:50 They die. 11:51 they poop them out. 11:52 so they're gone. 11:53 now the vegetable loving bacterias slowly get trickled in. 11:57 The signals to the brain are different. 11:59 The signals to the taste buds are different. 12:01 We know the tastes buds change. 12:02 And over a three months, six month, nine month period, because it's not easy, all of a sudden the child is no longer rejecting vegetables as much. 12:12 It's a slow process, people. 12:14 Slow process. 12:14 Yes, but it is possible for your picky eater to become less picky over time. 12:18 There is hope. 12:20 Yeah. 12:21 When my warrior parents are determined to make change, The children generally don't have driver's licenses and they don' have money. 12:29 So the only people are providing them with Lucky Charms and Cinnamon Toast Crunch and Goldfish are the parents. 12:36 I used to call myself a drug dealer. 12:37 Because when I realized, I'm like, wait a minute, this is all me. 12:40 This is on me! 12:42 You know, they're not doing it. 12:43 But over time, we can change. 12:46 And by changing to more plan points, We increase gut diversity. 12:50 When we increase got diversity,we heal the skin from within. 12:53 Yes, probiotics and instead of having all this inflammatory bacteria and staph and yeast that love sugar, the more plant points that we get, 13:04 more diverse our diet, then we actually get healthy bacteria inside so your brain gets retrained by your gut and then your taste buds change and you're 13:14 actually okay with eating broccoli. 13:15 Correct. 13:16 And your skin gets better. 13:17 Correct, and you know, a lot of people are like, well, you have so many patients that they can't, the children with eczema cannot tolerate stuff on their skin. 13:23 They'd be, everything burns, water burns air burns wind burns. 13:27 Sometimes we don't even use anything on there because it's so painful. 13:30 We just work with the inside because the staff lives here. 13:33 we rebalance that here, we decrease it on the insight, less of it coming outside. 13:38 All of a sudden we have less red itchy skin without having to put any topicals on. 13:41 Brilliant. 13:42 So what would you tell clinicians as a takeaway, if we've read your study, heard your lecture, of what's the best way for us to treat eczema for our patients? 13:52 There's a few simple things that if we did them from the right when eczema begins, not wait and see how this is going to play out. 14:01 So the most common time that ectoma starts is between three and six months of age. 14:05 Okay. 14:06 If let's say a six month old comes in and they have exima, if can just get a dietary history for mama if she's nursing or discuss what formula they're taking. 14:15 if mama is nursing, we're going remove processed foods, reduce her added sugar to less than 24 grams a day.
Practical treatment takeaways for families 14:22 about increase her plan points replace her dairy and gluten we did those if the child is doing formula we're gonna come off a dairy formula and no not 14:32 goat milk because all dairy is a problem for inflammation we are going to go to a broken down formula my favorite is hip HA combiotic it's a European formula 14:42 And then we're going to check the child's vitamin D levels, CBC with diff, and zinc RBC. 14:50 If we just did those, because there is a huge correlation in the medical data in our clinical study on vitamin Z depletion and then replenishment with 15:01 a decrease in eczema severity. 15:04 And then we add a multi-strand probiotic that has L-Ramnussis, L Rutteri, and L Fermenterum. 15:11 Let's throw in some Bifidol Infantis and Brevet, maybe a little Longham. 15:18 If we just do those simple things and give it a little bit of time, majority of children with eczema are gonna decrease their inflammation, 15:27 their allergic march cascade is going to significantly reduce, and we will have to use less biologics and have go into more invasive, 15:39 shall we say, or more complex functional medicine protocols. 15:42 I think that this is really revolutionary care for eczema. 15:46 It's fabulous. 15:47 Instead of just giving these kids rounds and rounds of steroids, anointments that aren't really working and are burning, 15:53 you're actually addressing the root cause of what's causing their exema in the first place, which is what every parent wants. 15:59 And I when children get old enough to make that correlation between that sugar and their skin, they stop eating sugar. 16:06 Correct. 16:06 I know my daughter experienced that around eight years old and started breaking out an eczema at the age of eight. 16:11 And we discovered, oh, let's cut out the sugar. 16:14 My goodness, the skin clears up and my daughters packs her own lunches for school and she packs healthy lunch. 16:20 There's the seaweed packets and the carrot sticks. 16:23 It's because she doesn't want her exema to come back and knows what caused it. 16:26 I love it, I loved it. 16:27 Now here's the other question I usually get, what if my child doesn't want to do any of that? 16:32 What if they're eight and they don't wanna do that. 16:34 I always say, well then we're not putting any topical lotions, you're buying anything, we just give empathy. 16:42 I know this is horrible. 16:43 I Know you're itchy. 16:45 You know what you have to do. 16:46 We cannot give them a way out So, I mean that sounds really cruel and mean it we need natural consequences I'm not gonna fight with an eight-year-old that's 16:54 gonna go and eat Oreos and Doritos and drink Gatorade at school and then come home and complain and that I am researching and I trying to give you vitamin 17:02 D They spit it out on the way to school. 17:04 They're eating what? 17:05 You're not ready for it. 17:06 At eight, you are old enough to make a decision. 17:10 I want this to be better or I don't care. 17:12 And it is your right to say, I Don't Care. 17:14 But we're now going to spend money on interventions. 17:16 We're just going chill. 17:18 Let them suffer. 17:19 Yeah, i'm old school. 17:21 Well, I think that's important because there is a correlation for consequences and we need to teach them at a young age. 17:26 Correct. 17:26 You know, when my boys had started having acne and they were like 14 and 15 and is there more a bigger no at all than a 15 year old male? 17:36 No. 17:37 And they're like, we're not going to do the dumb things you say. 17:40 And I was like Mara. 17:42 But what cream can I use for acne? 17:44 I'm like there's no cream. 17:45 Well, can use a face wash? 17:46 There's not facewash. 17:49 You know what you have to know, I am not gonna tell you. 17:51 I let it go, and I said nothing. 17:53 This is hard to watch. 17:56 One day each one of them at different times, they were like, yeah, I'm like wow, your skin looks better. 18:03 They're like I stopped eating dairy. 18:05 I stop eating Doritos. 18:06 And they'll be like. 18:08 Yeah. 18:09 All right. 18:10 So once they've made the food changes, then we were, like... 18:14 I am happy to help you now because I feel like we're on the same page. 18:18 Otherwise, you keep buying more lotions, You keep buy more potions. 18:22 You buy, more supplements. 18:23 you see another specialist and you go around in a circle getting more frustrated. 18:27 but the human is not doing what they need to do in front of you because you cannot out supplement a diet that doesn't fit the body.
Older kids, behavior change, and stress management 18:34 And I think people feel powerless when diseases happen or when their skin is rashy and it's so important with middle school and teenagers heading into 18:42 puberty that that acne, that self-esteem is critical at that period of time and to give them something that is within their power to change if they would 18:50 just understand what you're eating is causing that acne. 18:53 The pizza and the hot dogs and processed foods you are consuming is making that acne flare, making the eczema flare. 19:00 I think that they will stop. 19:01 How many... 19:02 I have a teenage boy who went through the same thing where, oh, my friend has all kinds of acne and I don't. 19:08 What's the difference? 19:09 It's our diet, right? 19:11 Right. 19:11 But it's so empowering. 19:14 My mission is to inspire, educate and empower kids and families. 19:18 When you, the person, realize that X causes Y and you have the power to say yes or no, then all of a sudden you're like, 19:26 wait a minute, I can say, yes, or, no to my eczema. 19:29 And that's a choice that I make. 19:30 It didn't happen to me. 19:32 Yes, a three month old, we can, We don't have time. 19:34 That's another podcast on three months. 19:37 But when you Have older kids that there's A direct correlation and they see it and They choose Then my college kid, when he realized the relation between 19:47 stress and eczema, he was like, and now I have a nighttime routine to de-stress because I've seen it that when I manage my stress response, 19:58 my eczema is better, I'm going to have college exams, i'm gonna have to look for a job,I have look to for internships, that's always gonna happen. 20:05 How do I respond to it? 20:06 My skin tells me that I am not regulated. 20:09 Yes, our skin is our largest immune organ. 20:11 Correct. 20:12 And I no longer have remind him about it because he's realized the power of his own body and his choices. 20:19 Well, I think that what you're doing is empowering patients and it's empowering clinicians like myself so that we can help our patients. 20:27 Thank you so much for your time. 20:28 Thanks for joining us on the Integrative Medicine Roundtable where practitioners lead. 20:37 If you found value in today's conversation, follow our podcast, share it with a colleague, or visit us at ncintegrative.org and join our community today. 20:47 We'll see you at the next roundtable.
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