Full Transcript Introduction to Integrative Medicine 0:00 I think so many people have had a personal health tragedy or in their family that's led them here. 0:07 Fortunately, I got that head start and it's just been a wonderful journey to have so much extra tools to offer our patients, 0:16 more options. 0:17 That's really what we are about. 0:19 We're not throwing out traditional things. 0:22 It's good for immediate care. 0:25 Traditional medicine does not have an answer for chronic disease. 0:29 So I think when it comes to chronic diseases, the tools the integrative professional has really sets them apart. 0:42 Hi, welcome back to the Healthy by Dr. 0:44 Jenn podcast. 0:45 Today we're going to be talking about integrate medicine and how you can get more involved in this awesome world. 0:53 I'm Dr. 0:54 Jen. 0:54 Today we are here with Dr Eric Bourne. 0:57 He is a physician, a DO, and he is the president of the International College of Integrative Medicine, or better known as ICIM. 1:06 So he has his own practice in Michigan that we'll find out a little bit more about. 1:13 And he had been practicing for how long? 1:15 35 years. 1:16 35 years. 1:20 So if you need to know about integrative medicine is the guy to ask. 1:25 Welcome to the podcast. 1:27 My pleasure. 1:28 Yes. 1:28 Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got in the integrator world. 1:35 Why did you abandon conventional medicine a Yeah. 1:39 So when I was a medical student, we, as you know, have so many opportunities to spend time with many, many physicians and we're doing our rotations typically 1:49 about a month and you go from office to office, hospital to hospital.
Dr. Bourneu2019s Path into Integrative Care 1:54 And then I had opportunity to. 1:57 Spend time. 1:58 With my uncle and he was, a family practice doc in Grand Rapids, Michigan. 2:05 So all of a sudden I walked in there and he was getting things better that other docs were frustrated with. 2:14 In fact, sometimes they would blame the patient for the headache or fatigue or backache or whatever they didn't want to see. 2:20 And he said, no, we're going to help you. 2:22 He did. 2:23 It was just so eye-opening for me to go. 2:27 from one office to another, and you would then see somebody who had an answer to these people's health problems. 2:37 So fortunately, I got this at a very young age as I was going to medical school. 2:44 And then I, was able to get more and more training along that line because I just wanted to have more tools, more, tools. 2:53 and so I feel like I kind of a headstart. 2:56 Yeah. 2:57 Well, I like how you brought up how some doctors, they say it's the patient's fault. 3:01 And I feel like I felt that a lot in the emergency room even and on rotations, but people that would come in with chronic pain or they're back here again 3:11 for their headaches. 3:12 That's actually one of the reasons why I went back and did an integrative medicine fellowship. 3:16 because I was like, this is broken. 3:18 This doesn't work. 3:19 They're following doctor's orders, and they're not being taken care of. 3:22 So I think that that is so common that people get, you know, gaslit when they go to their doctor. 3:29 And it's not always the doctor fault. 3:31 It's the patient's fault, it is a broken system. 3:35 I mean, I truly believe integrative medicine is the fix for that. 3:41 I do. 3:42 I think so many people have had a personal health tragedy or in their family that's led them here. 3:50 Fortunately, I got that head start and it's just been a wonderful journey to have so much extra tools to offer our patients, 3:59 more options. 4:00 That's really what we are about. 4:02 We're not throwing out traditional things. 4:05 It's good for immediate care. 4:08 Traditional medicine does not have an answer for chronic disease. 4:12 So I think when it comes to chronic diseases, the tools the integrated professional has really sets them apart.
Core Lifestyle and Detox Foundations 4:21 What are some of your favorite tools that you have used over your career that have been brought into your toolbox from integrative medicine? 4:30 I think it all starts with what we eat. 4:33 And I, think that there's different opinions out there on that, but I really think you've got to focus on getting the processed food, 4:42 clean food clean water, and clean air. 4:44 I that's a big start. 4:47 The other thing is we're getting more sedentary and we need to move. 4:51 It's good for our brains, it's for good our bodies. 4:56 Just having that conversation is so easy. 5:00 And in general, I think all of us are looking to what is insulting our body, what kind of toxic environment from food to metals to plastics to organophosphates 5:16 and even some of our processed food, very toxic, and get those out of your system. 5:22 So I think almost all of us start by, what can we remove in this person's life that's offending them? 5:30 And then we can start to, once we get the offenders away, we start building back up. 5:36 Sometimes it's a job or a boss, you know, I've noticed, like, when we talk about toxins, sometimes it is a toxic person, 5:45 so repairing that relationship, maybe forgiving someone that did you wrong or giving grace or quitting a job. 5:54 I've had patients that have switched or changed jobs, especially women, honestly. 5:58 Like, I'm like, what is this doing for you? 6:02 You know, because they feel they're like run ragged, you know especially in perimenopause. 6:07 And I am like there has to be a balance. 6:10 For me, it's kind of like ordering things, God, my husband, and my family and kids, then my job, not that I don't do my best at my jobs but I need to have 6:21 time for that other stuff. 6:23 Me personally, and when I talk to patients, sometimes I ask about spiritually what's toxic and stuff. 6:30 So have you ever told someone to quit their job? 6:33 Because I have. 6:34 Well, I tell them, let's start looking for a new job. 6:38 Great financial stress. 6:41 It's time for you to really move on. 6:42 I know it's going to be hard and you know, you just talked to them about it. 6:45 It is going be harder now, but you now it is gonna be better and we are gonna to here for. 6:50 Sometimes they just need to hear that. 6:52 That there is somebody else out there that does care about them. 6:57 And then toxins can be intimidating, too, to have patients cut out. 7:01 You know, I had a pan that my favorite pan to cook only one dish in, like every few months, but it was Teflon coated. 7:09 And it took me a couple years to just throw it away because I'm like, But we only use it once. 7:13 I don't like this is ridiculous. 7:15 Like, why am I keeping this one? 7:16 It was a walk. 7:18 But that can be hard. 7:20 People might not realize that the ceramic mug that they're drinking their coffee out of has lead in the paint, right? 7:28 So how do you make it so they are not overwhelmed when you tell them this? 7:32 Because honestly, they've probably been to doctors and have never heard this before.
Practical Tools in the Integrative Toolbox 7:38 I do like exactly what you were referring to. 7:41 I mean, there are some integrative docs will do a big panel right off the bat, and it's just huge. 7:48 And it can be a little intimidated and overwhelming. 7:51 My personal approach is exactly why you're referring, to take a good history. 7:55 find out the priorities, and this start there, it's a journey. 7:59 And we talk to them about that. 8:01 If I'm going to drive across the United States from here, I am not going worry about where I will turn when I get to my end destination. 8:08 I want to start here. 8:11 Where do I start? 8:12 Where I turn to get going here on my journey? 8:15 So we start and each time we can start to peel the next layer back for the patient. 8:23 Now, those are the basic tools. 8:25 So, what are some other tools that you have in your office that are maybe just different and fun things like supplements, 8:32 for example? 8:33 So yeah, it's amazing over the years how many different things we've added to the practice and you add it because And unfortunately, 8:44 it's out of the usual payer system, you know, health insurances are really starting to dominate the way medicine is practiced. 8:52 So sometimes you have to go away from that a little bit. 8:56 We often start by looking at food sensitivities and we look at gut and microbiome, what the thing all, we feel a property set, 9:07 all the disease starts in the gut. 9:10 And so we often start to look at the gut first. 9:13 I think that's a tool that most everybody here does. 9:16 We have a good background in something called chelation therapy that is the removal of heavy metals from the system. 9:24 So we test for that and then look what we get and figure out what type of medication could help get those metals out of their system Other tools we're using, 9:38 I happen to have a hard chamber hyperbaric oxygen. 9:42 And it's just amazing how that tool can make just anything heal better, particularly brains. 9:48 It helps our brains heal and other tissue in the body. 9:52 How often do you go in that, yourself? 9:54 You're like, I'm gonna sneak away. 9:57 Yeah, depending on what's going on with my own health. 10:00 In fact, just a couple weeks ago for several treatments. 10:04 It does bring me back to what it's like to be a patient and step into that. 10:09 I still try to keel eight monthly. 10:12 Yeah. 10:12 So we all, as we get older, we're patients ourselves. 10:16 Regenerative medicines become big. 10:19 Personally, for me, the prolotherapy, platelet-rich plasma, those types of therapies too. 10:28 I love it because I try to explain to patients when they come to see me. 10:31 I'm like, I have a plan A and then I a have plan B, C, D, all the way down to Z because it's layers at how we have to approach patients. 10:40 And, you know, prolotherapy might not work for every patient or not be the next step. 10:44 They have do other things before. 10:47 I try to explain to them that not every practitioner even is created equal.
How ICIM Was Founded and Grown 10:52 Not everyone has so many tools in their bag, you know, and you need to make sure when you're seeing someone that they keep collecting tools because that's 11:02 what you do. 11:02 You keep building on. 11:04 I mean, I can't imagine, like me 10 years ago, how many tools I have now compared to that in you 20 years ago. 11:12 So I think that that is great to have a community to share tools and tricks with each other. 11:18 And that brings us to the International College of Integrative Medicine. 11:24 Tell us a little bit about what this organization is and how it was founded. 11:28 You know, the founders go back to 1983 and 1984 where in Cleveland, Ohio, some doctors from the Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio area got together and they 11:41 were very like-minded, very forward-thinking individuals and said, hey, we need to share our ideas. 11:49 So they named the group, the Great Lakes College for Advancement Medicine. 11:55 And it really carried that name until the point where we'd really grown, particularly into the Canada, still in the great lakes, 12:03 we had a little more and more Canadian members. 12:04 We had people from overseas starting to come. 12:07 We just thought it was time for a name change, so we became the International College of Integrative Medicine, trying to reflect more as our organization 12:16 was growing. 12:16 But it's still mostly a Midwest-based group and love to have people continue to come from outside that area. 12:26 And as we start to add meetings further and further away from our base too, So these just were leading edge doctors that started this. 12:36 And you know, a lot of it was when I got a call from one of the doctors and said, hey, we got this meeting coming up. 12:43 Hey, you ought to come. 12:45 It was just a blessing to do that. 12:48 I'm on, I was on the board of American College of Advancement Medicine in the past too. 12:54 So I've been a member of many organizations. 12:59 This has a family feel to it. 13:03 You can learn as much from the doctor sitting next to you at lunch as you can in the classroom. 13:09 So these are our lectures, our practicing positions. 13:15 We were very broad from having PhDs and natural paths and course MDs, MDOs. 13:24 And we really welcome all those in this space to our group. 13:28 Yeah, I was introduced to the organization. 13:31 My friend Dr. 13:32 Ellie Campbell was putting on the conference, the kidney conference in Atlanta last summer, and I spoke at it about peptides. 13:40 And I kind of fell in love with just everyone there because it does feel like that family feel, but not only that, It's like you said practicing practicing 13:51 doctors practicing practitioner You know, it's not just people come and they just have a big Instagram following and that's why they're there, 13:59 you know to draw them in its actual doctors are so passionate about oh gosh, like thiamine and you Know be too and stuff like I just like You could just 14:09 feel their passion and their seeing patients and there's seeing results and this is how I in residency, it gives that like M&M feeling,
Conference Culture and Learning from Peers 14:18 you know, grand rounds where we're all sharing what we learn from patients because we are not cookie cutter medicine. 14:26 We actually have to see how things work in patients and learn form that. 14:31 So it is that family feel. 14:34 If you are If you are interested in integrative medicine and techniques, it's a really good, kind of like a sleeper conference. 14:42 You know how in fantasy football you call it a slipper? 14:44 Like someone's like, a sleaper ride receiver or whatever. 14:47 Anyway, I feel like it is that because it kind a hidden gem when you look at all these different conferences you can go to. 14:54 I think once people come to our conferences, they often join the group once they hear the quality of what we have out there. 15:05 And we're blessed to have had just some really great speakers like yourself. 15:11 You did a fantastic job and we really appreciate your expertise that you brought to out group. 15:17 Oh, thank you. 15:18 And the topics are based on integrative medicine too, and how you apply it. 15:25 There's also, once you remember, I think we have access to slides and past things, which is great. 15:31 Yeah. 15:32 We were trying to do a better, better job of using multimedia. 15:36 getting access to that and recording everything. 15:40 So there's two meetings a year. 15:42 And so those are going to be at different cities with different topics. 15:47 I think we really will broaden any physician's toolbox. 15:52 Yes, exactly. 15:53 Then how long have you been president? 15:55 How long will you stay president Well, until the board, I serve at the pleasure of the Board. 16:00 Yeah, it's been one of longer. 16:01 I've been president since 2018. That's amazing. 16:06 So, yeah, toward the end of my term, there's no term. 16:10 It's just the Boards of Directors keep selecting presidents. 16:14 And so I think we're heading in the right direction. 16:17 We've got excellent leadership, excellent executive director now. 16:25 time for me to force somebody else to step up. 16:30 We have to keep everybody, keep the young ones coming too. 16:34 Right, yes. 16:34 Well, what has the benefit of going to these actual conferences been for you? 16:40 Like, how have you brought that back to your patients? 16:42 Yeah, well, the motto we always had was whatever we learn in a lecture hall, we want to be able to use on Monday morning. 16:51 And that's Monday, going back to my office. 16:53 I want be to do that right away. 16:57 That's our theory of how we're telling our speakers that let's give them tools that whatever they hear, they can start on a Monday. 17:08 So very practical things. 17:10 And then they can also follow things, you know, now I think I just love that there's so much multimedia podcast and things you. 17:18 I often then follow some of the speakers we hear because they have a podcast like yourself and. 17:25 Dr. 17:26 McCullen, some of those others we've heard. 17:28 So it's great to just say, gosh, I didn't know about that person. 17:34 We're really trying to introduce our members to a wide variety of individuals. 17:41 It's so intimate and all that. 17:43 You can not only ask questions, but you can have lunch with them. 17:46 Yes. 17:47 They're not racing off to the airport after, they're hanging around and we're all, because we are all a community, we all are collaborators together because 17:56 were trying to advance patient care in the integrative space.
Rapid Fire: Biohacks, Toxins, and Values 18:00 That's great. 18:01 I'm going to ask you some rapid fire questions, so thank you for being here. 18:06 What is your favorite biohack that actually works? 18:12 movement, motion. 18:13 Hippocrates said motion is medicine. 18:17 So it's been around that long. 18:21 I think that's one thing that actually works. 18:25 We've got some osteopathic background and we're trying to restore motion to the system and there's a lot of ways to do that with our hands and with exercise. 18:36 It could be that simple. 18:37 Yes, I love that. 18:38 That's a great answer. 18:39 If you could eliminate one toxin from the world today, what would it be? 18:43 Oh, boy. 18:44 Microplastics. 18:45 I'm concerned that, so, you know, got a background in heavy metals, but I got tools to get it out. 18:51 Yeah. 18:51 And we're doing better on stopping them getting in. 18:56 But the forever chemicals, the PFASs and the plastics, We got to stop polluting our world and we got a start. 19:05 Yes. 19:06 You know, it's very toxic. 19:09 The microplastic. 19:10 Well, we eat like a credit card worth of plastic. 19:12 I forget how often, but it, yeah. 19:15 And total plasma exchange is really the only way to get rid of these. 19:19 It's crazy. 19:20 Yeah. 19:21 That's like 500, 5,000 bucks. 19:25 Yeah, that's actually a good one. 19:27 Because glyphosate, people say glyphasate and mercury a lot, but we can detox from that. 19:31 So I really like your answer. 19:34 Last one, what is one word you would like to leave with the audience? 19:39 That's just one-word. 19:41 Put you on the spot. 19:43 It's what we like do. 19:46 Just integrate. 19:47 That's a good one.
Where to Find Dr. Bourne and ICIM 19:48 Integrate that mind, body, spirit. 19:51 I think we overlook that. 19:52 It takes the whole package. 19:54 Yeah. 19:55 So let's integrate, and that would be my one word. 19:58 That is a great one, yeah. 20:00 Like I said, I don't think anyone said that one before, so you did good. 20:03 All right, Dr. 20:03 Bourne, how can those listening find you? 20:07 Are you still taking patients at your office in Michigan? 20:10 So first talk about the International College of Integrative Medicine. 20:15 We have our own website and icim.org and find us there, look us over, see what you think. 20:22 Would love to have you come see us. 20:24 Personally, I have a Parchment family practice and born integrative medicine in the Kalamazoo, Michigan area. 20:32 And we are fairly limited on our new patients. 20:36 Uh, we're very blessed to be. 20:38 Pretty busy, but for some of our real special things, the PRP hyperbaric chelation therapy, there's probably some room for you. 20:46 Yeah, that's good. 20:48 That's great. 20:48 Enjoying ICIM and we'll probably see you then at the next conference then. 20:52 It's going to be in Dearborn, Michigan in September, so looking forward to that. 20:58 I think that one will excite everybody. 21:02 Thank you so much.
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