How Is Your Thyroid Linked To Your Brain?

Anshul Gupta, MD

Thank you, Dr. Terry Wald, for inviting me on the summit. You are an inspiration for all of us and this summit is going to help. So many people. So I’m glad that I’m here and able to help some of my expertise into this topic. So a little bit about me. So by training, I’m a family physician. That’s what I was doing for more than five years. But then, you know, like I was having my own health struggles that led me to do functional medicine, but in that functional medicine part, I was working at the Cleveland Clinic and that’s where, you know, like I found my expertise into Hashimoto’s disease because I was researching it and found that there were several root causes that needs to be tackled and dealt with to reverse this condition. So I researched this protocol, made a three step protocol of my own, through which I helped several people to improve their Hashimoto’s, get their life back and reverse it. I wrote a book on that, you know, a year ago, reversing Hashimoto’s, which again that we had to discuss the three step protocol on reversing this disease. And now I basically help people from all over the world. I have this virtual functional medicine practice where I help people through a functional medicine model of care to improve their Hashimoto’s and reverse it.

Terry Wahls, MD

Now I believe you have your own very interesting personal journey with some brain fog issues, which of course affects probably the vast majority of folks with M.S. eventually we have a big risk for cognitive issues. So could you tell us about your personal issues with brain fog and how you got got that addressed?

Anshul Gupta, MD

Absolutely. So, again, you know, like after my residency, I was working in a private clinic with primary care just as a family physician. This maybe like a year into the practice, I started having a lot of health issues. I was gaining a lot of weight. I was having this horrible, horrible stomach pain. I was tired all the time. And plus I also started having brain fog and I was only 32 years of age at the time. So for me, having brain fog was very scary because obviously there was no apparent reason. I obviously did all the blood work, did all the tests that could be, could think about. I went all different specialists, including GSC, specialist neurologists, all those people to see what was going on with me and everything was normal. They could not find like, you know, anything which was concerning or the test was normal. Obviously you are not doing detailed testing. That was one part that was missing because, you know, I was a very conventional doctor. So I didn’t knew what detail testing could be needed. But then slowly and slowly, that’s what I found functional medicine got trained into do functional medicine and I figured out some of the root causes that was causing my health struggles, especially the brain fog. I made a very simple plan, you know, a very simple food plan, removing food which was causing the inflammation, which was causing a brain fog, and adding food which was helpful for a supplement regimen, a meditation practice, and exercising with all of those things within six months, I completely transformed my health. My brain fog was gone completely. I lost 40 pounds. I had more energy in my life than I ever had. I even participated in a five day rugged maniac, and I was never an athletic person in my life. So. So for me to do that, that was a big thing.

Terry Wahls, MD

Okay, now, had your physician said that you had thyroid disease beforehand or Hashimoto’s beforehand.

Anshul Gupta, MD

So again, they were just doing regular tests of PSA, right? So obviously that was completely normal. But then when we did the antibodies in of the things that did show that had inflammation and those antibodies. So although, you know, like again the specialists they well, you know, your days, which is fine so you don’t need the medicine. So you just basically kind of, you know, keep doing what you are. But that’s very good functional medicine. I came to know is that because it’s an inflammatory process, if I address the underlying issue, I can not only improve my disease process, also improve my life and never had to go on the medication. So it’s been like now eight years. I’m like, you know, disease free. I don’t have to go on any medications and everything is good.

Terry Wahls, MD

So let’s sort of talk about, you know, I know. So we’re folk this is a multiple sclerosis and neuro immune summit. But I also know that there are many people with multiple sclerosis who have Hashimoto’s and they don’t know it in that there may be people with thyroid disease because that’s very common who actually are developing neural moon problems in neurologic issues and don’t realize that’s what’s driving all of this. Can you sort of talk to why somebody, your thyroid disease starts having brain fog and why, you know, this trouble develops?

Anshul Gupta, MD

Absolutely. So thyroid hormone actually is a very vital hormone and a lot of people don’t even realize it that without any thyroid hormone, we will not be living. So the interesting part is that a lot of physicians, a lot of everybody knows that during pregnancy, if a female is low and later in hormone, it doesn’t let the development of the brain of the child, though even from day one, you know, of our life, we need thyroid hormone to develop our brain. Now, most people think that once the brain is developed, then we don’t necessarily need the role of thyroid hormone for brain. But thyroid hormone is constantly need for brain development, for making new brain cells, for neurogenesis, for also creating myelin sheet around the brain cells, and also for communicating between the brain cells because those are the connections which you call a synaptic junctions, which kind of connects kind of to brain cells. And the messages or the information gets transferred through these and optic channels and thyroid hormones plays an important role in maintaining those channels. So these are all the things that thyroid hormone is needed for the brain development and brain functioning. And when the thyroid hormone is low, that can certainly one of the reasons that can cause brain fog or issues with concentration or dementia, you know, all those things.

Terry Wahls, MD

So for people with neuro immune problems, I think I think I’m hearing that a low thyroid hormone may be contributing to why we’re having brain fog, why perhaps our memory is not quite as good.

Anshul Gupta, MD

What do mean?

Terry Wahls, MD

What should we be asking for when we see our medical team?

Anshul Gupta, MD

Again, very important to have a complete thyroid panel checked. You know, so the other thing which happens actually in heart, like, you know, in thyroid, especially in Hashimoto’s patients, first of all, lower thyroid hormone definitely can do it. But in Hashimoto’s it’s an autoimmune condition. So we do see that inflammation which is driving the Hashimoto’s and we think that is only destroying the thyroid gland, that inflammation actually goes into the brain and also destroys the brain cells and that’s another reason of having the brain fog. So most people, if they’re doing just that passage hormone through the regular doctors, they’re missing the diagnosis of Hashimoto’s and inflammation. So first of all, they should be getting a complete thyroid manual gluteus it’s free D3 free T4 so they know what the thyroid hormone status is. And second of all.

Terry Wahls, MD

Hang on to people as they may not know where T3 and T4 is. So yeah, it should explain that.

Anshul Gupta, MD

Absolutely. So let’s understand a little bit of a thyroid anatomy so people understand what our different thyroid hormones are. So basically it starts off with, you know, an important endocrine gland which is located in our brain, which is a pituitary gland. This pituitary gland produces this hormone called passage, which is a thyroid stimulating hormone. It is basically a signaling hormone which goes from your body to your thyroid gland and as your thyroid gland to start reducing thyroid hormone. The main production of thyroid hormone is that before this T4 circulates in your body, but when it goes to the cell, it needs to be converted to T3 so that the cells can utilize that thyroid hormone and do what it’s supposed to do. So interesting part is that when you’re only checking data sets, you’re not checking any of the thyroid hormone, you’re checking a brain hormone, which is a signaling hormone. So that’s the conventional way of checking it. But if we check the T4 and the T3, then that’s the time you’re actually checking that thyroid hormone and we can know whether the body is getting adequate amount of thyroid hormones or not. So that’s where, you know, the T4 and the D3 comes into place.

Terry Wahls, MD

And then you mentioned antibodies and thyroid antibodies. We should probably explain to people with those are.

Anshul Gupta, MD

That’s correct. So this DSD 34 is only telling us about the functioning of the thyroid gland. Whether your thyroid is producing enough thyroid hormone or not. But Hashimoto’s diagnosis is something different. For Hashimoto’s diagnosis. You need to check specific antibodies which are elevated in Hashimoto’s condition and they are two antibodies. One is Deep Throat, which is a thyroid but oxidase antibody, and the second one is thyroid globulin antibodies. All the labs have this test. They can easily do it. LabCorp, Quest, whatever labs you’re going to cover with the insurance. So very easy tests that and that can be combined with your other tests so that you know, because what happens in early stages of Hashimoto’s is that the antibody levels might be high, but their thyroid hormones would be normal. So that early stage of event fine and kind of recognize that person as Hashimoto’s and true functional medicine protocols, there’s a very high chance that we can reverse it and people don’t have to go on medications in the future.

Terry Wahls, MD

And what I see in my practice is that antibodies are high. I help investigate the root causes. We address those antibody levels, fall and their vitality improves, energy improves, not declared improves, mood improves. Often they in retrospect, they realize that they had been developing depression a year and we really transform their lives for everyone who’s listening. It is very common for people with M.S., another new immune disease. If we don’t get to the root causes every 5 to 10 years, another organ system is attacked. And thyroid is like, I’d say, probably the leading second line of attack. That will happen for people who have multiple sclerosis, which is why I asked Dr. Angel to come on, because I want all of you to be thinking, is your thyroid being attacked? And even if you have the normal thyroid hormones that Dr. Anshul just described, if you’re not looking for the antibody levels, you would be missing that you’re in this pre disease state. That could be easily averted. Now, if people don’t check their antibodies and this sort of goes on, what would happen what’s the natural history of untreated, elevated thyroid antibodies?

Anshul Gupta, MD

So these titer antibodies are basically soldier cells which are destroying your thyroid gland day in and day out. So just imagine that, you know, if there are like 300 thyroid antibodies which are present in a person, so 300 soldiers that are attacking the thyroid gland, 24 seven and ultimately it leads to the destruction that they do at gland. So and that’s where a lot of people do get diagnosed with Hashimoto’s or low thyroid hormone and get started on the medicine. But the unfortunate part that most people don’t even know that the thyroid medicine is not doing anything to stop this progression of the disease. They think they’re act. This medicine is actually stopping the inflammation or stopping the antibodies. In reality it is not. That’s where, you know, as explained, the root cause approach is going to be helpful because when we address the root cause, we can lower the antibodies and we can safeguard the thyroid gland. Because let’s face it anyways, only 115 years of these antibodies present in your body can completely destroy your thyroid gland, and then you are dependent on a synthetic hormone for life long because your thyroid is not able to produce those thyroid hormones. But if you take an action and address the root causes, then you can certainly stop this progression from happening.

Terry Wahls, MD

Now, we talked a bit about food, you know, to get rid of the anti inflammatory food and to nourish your body, including your thyroid gland more thoroughly. Do you have any comments about iodine, selenium, other are there any other key nutrients for thyroid that people may be getting too little or perhaps too much of?

Anshul Gupta, MD

Absolutely. So there are again, we do have a good amount of resource depend on different minerals, you know, which do regulate this Hashimoto’s and thyroid situations. The first one obviously is the iodine. You know, it’s a very controversial topic whether people with Hashimoto’s should be taking iodine should not be taking iodine. Is it good or bad because the results are just that low iodine can trigger Hashimoto’s and high iodine can also trigger Hashimoto’s. So it’s like one of those slippery slope is that too little is bad and too much is also bad.

Terry Wahls, MD

So hang on, everyone is listening. Dr. Angel is describing a U-shaped curve that is typical of many nutrients. Too little is a problem, too much is a problem. There’s it depending on the nutrient at the you were at the base where you can have optimal health can be broad or relatively narrow. This is why seeing a functional medicine doctor who can help assess and guide, make sure that your nutrients are in the correct part of the you met optimal range and now back to you Atul.

Anshul Gupta, MD

So that’s correct, so iodine again at one point a lot of people were taking too much iodine supplements and they were actually getting worse. The thyroid antibodies were getting worse. So now we know that, you know, too much iodine is bad. So I don’t recommend taking iodine supplements. I recommend people actually using a natural food to replenish their think because a lot of our salt as iodine, a lot of seafoods have iodine, you know, C vegetables have iodine. So we have a lot of different sources of iodine. So instead of taking high dose of supplements with iodine, I instead recommend taking them food. If they’re not able to take food, they can always include very low doses of iodine, but I generally don’t want to take them high doses because that would make things worse. The second supplement is Selenium Supplement. Now again, resource time and again has shown that Selenium is a great supplement for especially with thyroid and Hashimoto’s, both because first of all in Hashimoto’s it can reduce the antibody levels and for thyroid patients is actually improves the functioning of the thyroid gland, especially the conversion of people to T3 improves with selenium because selenium is needed for production of thyroid hormone as well as selenium is actually a part of the enzymatic processes which helps to reduce inflammation in the thyroid itself so that the thyroid can function better. 

So that’s another supplement, you know, most of the thyroid patients can easily take, which will be very, very useful. The third one is zinc. Again, zinc is an important mineral which is needed for production of thyroid hormone as well as convergence of B 43. And we do see that, you know, zinc also plays an important role in immune processes, especially creatine, improving our immunity. And we know that, you know, in massive thyroid patients, you know, like we have too much inflammation and our immune system is going the wrong direction. So zinc can help our immune system to rebalance it and improves again, this conversion of people to T3 and in some instances along with selenium, it has shown in some research study that it can also help to lower the antibodies. So these are the basic minerals that you can take. Then we do have good research on white women. D Vitamin D again is like, you know, we all call is it like a new hormone because it is good for literally everything so similar in thyroid patients and a Hashimoto’s vitamin D is vital. Again, it improves the antibody levels as well as improve the functioning of the thyroid gland. So again, you know, very easy vitamin that can be taken, again, very easy test to do so that you can know where your vitamin D levels are. And based on that, that you can easily replenish your way to B stores.

Terry Wahls, MD

Now.

Anshul Gupta, MD

The basic things.

Terry Wahls, MD

The zinc, the selenium, and you have food sources that you recommend for the zinc and selenium.

Anshul Gupta, MD

The selenium Brazilian’s is the main source of selenium. You know, like actually if you eat like two or three Brazilians, you should be able to get enough selenium into your food. But the problem with our current, you know, food system is that, you know, like it is very variable because, you know, we have different practices, different soils where the food grows and do so. Brazil not, you know, comes from one country, you know, like might have very high source of selenium, but the others might not. So as you correctly pointed out, it is very important to first know where your levels of selenium are, you know, before you take high dose of selenium. But at least you can start Brazil. 

And that is a good source of taking selenium that can easily be done for zinc. Again, like a lot of different foods are high in zinc, especially in the seafood. You know, if you’re eating like oysters and other things, they are good sources of selenium. If you are vegetarians, we don’t have great source because the zinc in vegetarian sources sometimes is not very well absorbed, but nuts and seeds. And again, a lot of vegetables can be has some zinc into them. So you can use it. But again, I recommend, you know, like checking zinc levels so that you know where you are because unfortunately if people are taking high like doses of zinc for a long amount of time, that can affect their copper levels. And again, that’s an issue. So as you correctly pointed out, you know, these supplements are not Candy. So just don’t keep popping them, you know, at high doses. We know on your own very important to kind of get your levels checked and follow like a functional medicine doctor so that you are in that safe zone.

Terry Wahls, MD

Correct may is nutrients have that U-shaped curve so too little is a problem too much of the disease state and so it’s one of the reasons why I press food food is really the most important approach to nutrition as opposed to supplements up now. Well, we talked a little bit about root causes. I know that toxin exposure can be a problem for people with Hashimoto’s. Can you comment on that?

Anshul Gupta, MD

Absolutely. So a lot of people actually don’t know that, you know, our thyroid gland is like a sponge. So even small amount of toxins doesn’t matter what toxin it is when a body get exposed to it directly goes and gets deposited in the thyroid gland. So slowly and slowly, over the course of years, that small amount of toxins start building up in the thyroid gland and very find, you know, like basically it causes so much toxic exposure into the thyroid gland. It leads to triggering of Hashimoto’s. Now we have several different kinds of toxins that research already have correlated them with Hashimoto’s. The number one is heavy metals, lead, mercury, arsenic, aluminum and.

Terry Wahls, MD

Everyone who’s listening that same list that you just heard also is associated with higher risk of multiple sclerosis and other neuro immune conditions. Now back to you. Actually.

Anshul Gupta, MD

Yes. So, I mean, again, we all feel that, you know, of all the autoimmune diseases, you know, as you mentioned, again, have these triggers. So especially lead and mercury, you know, have very high affinity for thyroid gland. So there are several studies that show that the little mercury can lead to the triggering of Hashimoto’s. So very important, you know, and these heavy metals are still present and not environment. You know, we think that, you know, our environment is free of these heavy metals and these are still present around us all the time. So very important to have these high indexes suspicion and checking them so that, again, you know, whether you have them in your body or not, then obviously we know environmental toxins, whether those are glycosides, you know, which are present, you know, in our food or sprays, whether that is, you know, other kind of, you know, or chemical toxins which has been present in our different furnitures or in a household items or cooking utensils in all of those places, you know, these toxins that are hiding and can environmental toxins can lead to Hashimoto’s and then comes of more toxins. 

We are seeing more and more people being affected with Mycotoxins, which are more toxins which again can lead to triggering of Hashimoto’s. A lot of people are not even aware of what Murdock’s inside, whether they’re getting exposed to it or not, because again, mold is easily present around in other environments, especially in places that we are working with or we are living in our houses or maybe Airbnbs or hotels. We are spending time they might have these mold, toxins or mold and that can actually enter our body and create these more toxins which can lead to triggering of Hashimoto’s. So unless you check for these toxins, you will not know whether they are your root cause or not.

Terry Wahls, MD

For the people who are listening, how would they approach getting this kind of assessment to see? So we talked about how to get ask for your thyroid assessment. Now if I’m going to think about these toxin exposures, how would I get assessed for that risk?

Anshul Gupta, MD

So these days, unfortunately, most of the conventional doctors are not aware of, so the regular labs might not be able to check for these toxins. So that’s where a functional medicine doctor or integrative medicine doctor would be useful who have access to these specialized tests because they’re very specialized labs. Who does these tests to check for these toxins in your urine levels or either in your hair levels? So that way, you know, we know the total body burden of the toxins. So you might have to approach those special labs or special doctors to get those tests up.

Terry Wahls, MD

Okay. So I’ve done some research now. I’ve asked to get tested. The test comes back and says, Terry, you’ve got too much lead, too much mercury, and you have a variety of toxins. What’s the next step?

Anshul Gupta, MD

So, first of all, most people will start Googling, okay? And they will be getting a lot of information about how to detoxify your body on your own. I will caution everybody not to start a detox protocol on your own because it backfires a lot of times, because when you’re trying to detoxify, there are certain ways you have to do it. Certain steps needs to be followed because a detox system is very, very complicated. You know, there’s different phases of detox. And if you try to work on detox on your own, sometimes you just upregulate, you know, eat. The most of the time. The phase one detox, all these organisms are hiding in your system, comes out into the blood and that can actually cause more damage. So that’s the first question I always tell people, is that, you know, don’t do a detox protocol on your own work with a provider who knows how to do it. There are certain natural things. So again, the natural ways of detoxification that people can follow, which is obviously food and other things, and then those are more advanced or specific protocols that need to be followed to remove these toxins completely from their system. 

So from the natural ways, you know, like sonars are great because honors have shown that, you know, they can help to remove a lot of different toxins, whether those are heavy metals like leaded mercury or more toxins. The second way is that flushing your kidneys or drinking lots and lots of water. So a lot of people are dehydrated or not drinking enough water. Having enough water will be helpful. The third thing is flushing the toxins out from your gut. So that means having regular bowel movements. If your gut is in good shape, having regular bowel movements for that, eating a lot of healthy diet, eating in a fiber so that can be doing it. And the last thing is dry brushing. You know, we have this whole lymphatic system in our body which has not been talked about enough. One of the functions of this lymphatic system is actually removing the toxins from your system. And dry brushing is a very great way where we can actually improve the functioning of the lymphatic system and that can again contribute or help in removing the toxins from our system. So these are easy, natural things that people can do.

Terry Wahls, MD

I have a couple of comments. One is listening. Heat is hard. So many of us are not doing sinus because heat makes many of our symptoms worse. We have we have leaky bladder. So many of us are not drinking very much because we ought to be having bladder accidents. So we’re dehydrated. Constipation is profoundly common and often occurs 5 to 10 years before the diagnosis of M.S. So we have three strikes against us in terms of why it’s hard, harder for us to detoxify. And then so let’s talk about the one that’s probably the easiest to begin with, dry brushing. Can you explain what how one does that dry brushing?

Anshul Gupta, MD

It’s very easy, actually. Dry brushing is people. So people might have that be doing it unknowingly for a long time because we have those hard loofah us that, you know, lot of females use, you know, and they’re before taking a shower. So that actually acts like a dry brush. Obviously, if you want to be more fancy, you can just buy a dry brush. If you go to a health food store like Whole Foods or anything, they carry these dry brushing. So the main concept is that stroking your skin, we have this whole lymphatic channel which is flowing through our whole body, and then we just want to improve the flow of the lymphatic channel. So like there is a process of stroking the skin. Basically you want to go from the periphery towards your heart, so you start towards your periphery in your arms, and then you start the direction. The dry brush is towards your heart. So that’s what you do. And then same with your legs also that you go from the legs again trying to stroke the skin top towards your heart. And then when you are in your chest area, your abdomen area, again in the direction towards your heart, you don’t have to be very hard. So don’t want to have like, you know, all those skin lesions or don’t have to get the blood out on your skin. This a gentle stroking of the skin, very gently. If you do it, that does the job doesn’t take more than a few minutes. A lot of people what I recommend to them is that, you know, just keep these dry brushes or things in your showers just before you take a shower, do it for a few minutes and you’re done with the sounds.

Terry Wahls, MD

You know, again, for a woman who’s listening, this is a relaxing, soothing, easy step that doesn’t stress us because it’s not heat. It doesn’t make us wetter pants. And while you’re trying to improve your bowels and get pooping more regularly, you could begin dry brushing immediately. And so this is so, so helpful that Dr. Anshul, do you see people how do people come work with you to sort out is thyroid part of their health challenge.

Anshul Gupta, MD

Yeah we have a virtual function medicine practice so people from all over the world can actually come and work with us. And again, working with us re easy because you know, literally we have this virtual way of consulting people, but we are a full functional medicine practice. So when people need these advanced testing to go to the root cause, we have access to all of these tests which people can actually do right from their home. We can ship the kits to them, okay? And then they can just get better because all our protocols are completely natural so that we be blown out, worry, whatever, even like kind of working on medications or anything.

Terry Wahls, MD

So people can come to your website, they can come a schedule, a virtual consult. I imagine that’s done via Zoom and you can request the more advanced functional medicine testing and give people guidance after that.

Anshul Gupta, MD

That is like, okay, we do.

Terry Wahls, MD

It again for everyone who’s listening, I want to stress that it is common that we are developing additional autoimmune diagnoses. Hashimoto’s and probably psoriasis are the two most frequent second autoimmune diagnoses by certainly see rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, other mischief. But if you have any kind, any kind of brain fog, I certainly encourage you to consider getting a an evaluation. Having someone think about is are you developing thyroid antibodies? Is Hashimoto’s developing? And one final question here. How how long is the program where you have these antibodies that are, you know, happening attacking your thyroid before a conventional doc would say, okay, your to say just elevated, you have thyroid disease. I’m going to have to start you on a synthetic hormone. What is the lead time for having elevated antibodies and getting a diagnosis?

Anshul Gupta, MD

So unfortunately, we don’t have a fixed number of time. For some people. It can be, you know, as small as a few weeks or a few months. And for some people they might have elevated antibodies for maybe even a year or longer than that before their passage or the title levels will go low. So it depends on person to person. And, you know, we still do not know who is going to kind of their diet. The thyroid is going to start showing signs earlier than later.

Terry Wahls, MD

Okay. Well, this has been incredibly helpful. Do you have any closing words that you’d like to give to people who are listening? Again, it’s at multiple sclerosis patients and neuro immune patients.

Anshul Gupta, MD

Absolutely. So M.S. or neuro immunity. Again, the underlying issues are inflammation. So don’t get disheartened that you’re not you cannot get better. You already know, Doctor, you also wonderful story. So this is an inspiring story for all of us. And she has obviously helped people from all over the world to reclaim their health back. So please, please, please do the right protocols, do the root cause approach. And that can help you out to get your life back that you all deserve.

Terry Wahls, MD

Okay, Dr. Anshul, this has been just so fabulous and everyone I want you to think about is thyroid contributing to your difficulties if you’re having some brain fog. Thank you. Thank you.

Anshul Gupta, MD

Thank you so much.