Liver Scientist: Cleaners, Air Fresheners & Sodas Are Poisoning Us! l Siggi Clavien l Ep #395

Host Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Hi, I'm Natalie Nidam, your host. My guest today is Siggy Klavian, biotech innovator, founder of Deliverance and the man who somehow made liver health emotional, fascinating and weirdly funny. Sigy shares how losing his mentor and godfather to cirrhosis and liver cancer pushed him to devote his life to preventing what took his. We unpack why brain fog is often the very first symptom of fatty liver disease, how anger literally lives in the liver, and why your deodorant and cleaning sprays might be doing more harm than you think.

We even get into menopause, hormone therapy and staggering research that shows how there's a possibility that alcohol multiplies breast cancer risk even for women on HRT. Now this episode is brought to you by Young Goose's Blue Peptide Spray, Fatty 15, and Nature's Marvel's Bioregulators, all with special offers just for you. See the show notes below for details and enjoy the Show. Ziggy, it is such a pleasure to be here in West Palm Beach with you, live and living color. What a great way to do this podcast.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, we've been trying to connect for a year we were going to do it over zoom or maybe in toronto or kechi and i'm like well we're both in palm beach the weather's beautiful it's tropical and the energy is always better when you're with somebody yeah yeah so i had to take advantage of that well thank you and thank It's quite special. So we're going to talk, you know, I'm excited about this conversation. And in a way, i'm glad that it took a year to make it happen because I know so much more about you.

I knew so, much, more, about your story and I am really excited to share it with the audience. We're obviously, we are going talk about the liver and i want to start the conversation really by understanding, helping the, audience to understand like what made, what was the moment that made liver health personal for you because i know you've got a big back story here. Yeah. So my father's Swiss and mother's British. I was all set to go to University of California Davis to be a winemaker. Oh, that's your dad, right?

Your dad was a wine maker. Yeah. My grandfather and my great-grandfather, it's what we've done. That's right. And I'm the only son, and that was what I supposed to do. Okay. Uh, my best friend passed away from a drug interaction on his 21st birthday. And a lot of overdoses are actually interactions and most of them are pharmaceutical. It's when two chemicals mix and it can cause cardiac arrest or something. So that kind of spun me and I went into kind an epiphyonal experience and decided I wanted to study spirituality and what I want to do with my life and my brains and knowledge.

And I turned that into, I started creating nutraceuticals to deal with detoxification from an overdose perspective. prevent that from happening and really got going and you know when I first was formulating and I was selling out the back of my car to stores and i drive around and do that and a mentor that helped me start that company when i had the concept I because of knowledge of beverage i was a beverage director for fine dining restaurant and restaurant group And I took that knowledge, though, and that chemistry knowledge and biotechnology knowledge because wine is the living organisms and taking care of...

For sure. It's an art. Yeah, it is. And we have vines that are 80 years old, they get sick, you need to treat them, take care, love them and nurture them. You prune them... and you cross-breed them so it's very much like taking of a patient. So that kind of morphed into... so I started creating nutraceuticals. And along the way my mentor, who was like this Hemingway, sorry, my godfather who is like a Hemmingway type figure, he had passed away from cirrhosis. So that was very traumatic to see the ravages of somebody, you know, going through that.

And then my mentors that helped me start my first company died of liver cancer. So the universe was really moving you in a very particular direction. It was, and even when I was dealing very much with, I created formulas for rehab clinics, but I'm using western medicine, so vitamins and minerals and amino acids, And I didn't know much about eastern medicine. And to be candid, i didn' t know that much of the liver. The liver was definitely not talked about 28 years ago. We're talking about that next.

So that evolved into, I started working in Eastern medicine and in eastern medicine the liver is the general of the body and it's so much more important

Why Liver Health Became Personal 4:27

so I transitioned in about 2003 and I said well I'm going to dedicate the rest of my life to preventing people from getting liver disease and advancing liver health and that knowledge and as time went on that went from creating a formula but then I'm you know you've got these incredible formulas but you're in an empty audience hall singing so we have to then bring awareness so then it's the knowledge. And then you got 90 percent of people with fatty liver disease don't know they have it so that we got into diagnostics so it has been constantly evolving.

And the reason the products called Deliverance actually, or you know, a flagship product that took 18 years, was because it was his marketing guru, his psychologist who, funny enough, he uses it and he doesn't get gout anymore. But he was the guy behind Verve Clicquot and the psychology of the yellow and color and how you feel when you look at the brand. With the champagne. Yes, the Champagne. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. And he did Red Bull earlier days, brilliant English guy, like the psychologist said. He created Delverance because And my deliverance from losing loved ones and of traumatic experience was, you know, deliverence means to take you from bad to good or to set you free.

So that negativity I've turned into now I save people. Beautiful. We were trying to think of it last night, we've probably saved thousands of people's lives. Sure. And that's why he came up with the name Deliverance and it had the the named liver in the middle of it. Yeah, it's absolutely brilliant Okay, so let's back up a little bit for the audience. Thank you for that. Why in though? That's the white board It's a beautiful why and its you know trip filled with hardship and and heartbreak, but it is a It's a beautiful way to transmute that pain into good.

Let's back up for our audience and let's talk about the liver. You mentioned in traditional Chinese medicine, or in Eastern medicine the livers the general. And there's always this argument, is it the liver, the heart, or the brain? And at the end of the day, this is a collaborative effort. We can't make do without any of them. But let's really, I think the livers get overlooked very often. And let us talk about what is about the living that makes it so critical for optimal human health, and by extension, for longevity.

So the liver is, and that's why it's so central in Eastern medicine, is their understanding of it and appreciation. The reason it is called the general of the body, so in eastern medicine the emperor is your heart. But your liver's the General and all your other organs are basically the soldiers and the officers and troops because the livers control them. And the more and more we've discovered about the and we understand it and get into it, the liver actually controls so many other organs where the heart is just essentially pumping blood, right?

The brain is like a computer, kidneys are a filter system, but the livers is thousands of functions, 500 of which are vital, so it's the most important organ for your immune system. It's largest organ in the body. the largest external organ is the skin. And your skin health and your hair, if you want that to be beautiful, you have to have a healthy liver. So the liver's controlling that. For women's health, and hormones, the most important organ, is their liver, because it's processing the hormones.

It's breaking them down, it managing them, its releasing them. Its flushing them and the livers also a gland, so it produces its own hormones And you can go on and on about all the liver function, red blood cells, white blood cell. It's also a mastermind. And I'm very much of the opinion that it has its own, it's an inherently intelligent organ. Yeah. it manages, controls, and is the master mind of all of this vitamins, proteins, carbohydrates that we eat. Also energy. So you and I get up when we walk out the door right now, or you get and go to the gym, the energy that you had to do that is your liver burning little glycan packets.

So the liver is actually burning. When you work out, the livers is burning, giving you that energy because it's burning it. It's also your powerhouse as well. Every day I learn something about the river. Isn't it the only organ that actually can regenerate? It is the one that fully regenerates. Your skin regenerated but it never acts the same. The intestinal lining does as but the liver fully regenerates. You can have up to 90% of it damaged and it will come back. Hey folks, I just wanted to take a quick minute to tell you about something that I've created just for you guys, my listeners.

I created an amazing holiday gift guide for listeners so that you can get the best Black Friday deals on biohacking tools, supplements, and so much more. They are gifts in different price ranges and once a year price drops on your dream health tech. and no one said you can't show up for yourself. So you get the stuff for friends and family or for yourselves. All you've got to do is go to natnidam.com forward slash gift guide for the list of Black Friday deals that you just can miss. When we first started talking and I remember asking, what's your greatest story?

And the story you shared has stayed with me to this day. These are really powerful stories. But before we go there, You know, the idea that, and I want to talk about this also because there's so much talk of what we eat, what drink, but I think one of the things that people miss is everything that goes on the body and also gets processed through the liver. So what are a couple of things you're seeing, things going through your nose, through skin? What are the thing out there that are people being exposed to that they don't realize that they can avoid.

Like, you know, I mean, and I don't want this episode, like you guys, to be about freaking you out, but I want you... I'm hoping that people walk away from this, having a greater understanding of what are the things you can easily avoid, because I think what we have to acknowledge is the liver and other organs of detoxification in the body are very capable and powerful. but we do live in a world where we can overload them. So if we could go after the low-hanging fruit, we then enable for greater capacity to handle the things we maybe can't avoid as much.

Absolutely. Right? So what are some of the thing people ingest or put on or inhale that they should be avoiding? I mean, you said it very rightly so, there's so many toxins coming at the body, and the reason it regenerates is because it's constantly taking damage and regrowing, because if it wasn't constantly regenerating every second, it would get overwhelmed. We've introduced 100,000 chemicals into the human diet in the last 150 years. So anthropologically, we have not even come close to evolving to be able to deal with that.

When we get into diet soda, and why my theory on diet sodas has now been proven about that with chemicals, but toxins come in many forms. Most people think of it like, okay, smoking, that's breathing, But we also breathe toxins, especially live in this city. There's all kinds of chemicals heavy metals, if you're on an airplane.

The Liveru2019s Role in Health and Longevity 11:40

Cleaning materials are filled with them. So we're breathing a lot in. And then you've got obviously topical, so you got skin. Your skin is actually your best detox engine. The best way your body detoxifies, once the liver and the kidneys do its thing, it comes out mostly through the skin and sweat. That's why sweating is so good for you. So, when you're putting stuff on your skin, especially if it's synthetic, or it is chemicals, it clogs up your face, you are starving your body's ability to detoxify and to take things in.

The skin takes things and it pushes things out. So topical is very important and the chemicals that are in there. Deodorant is one. Especially any kind of sprays. And the worst place, all the lymphatic centers are on the armpits. And when you're spraying a chemical into there, not only are you blocking your body's detoxification, but should some of those chemicals, and those forever chemicals and micro-microplastics, be coming into the lymphatic system directly? Like the worst place, besides in your mouth, would be in the armpit.

100%. I just took an unfortunately delayed cab ride here. One of the things, and I've now probably been the cause of more cab drivers getting rid of these things than anything else, is the air fresheners that people use in cabs. That's a great example. Most people don't think about that. In Costa Rica, I'm telling this guy, he's He did not look very healthy and I was explaining to him and he had like a stack hanging from his rearview mirror. He threw it away. Yeah. And he handed it to the gatekeeper and said, just throw this away from me.

The guy's like, what are you doing? He goes, she just told me it was hilarious. That's a really good point. I don't bring that up enough. My wife, Cassandra, our co-founder, is very much on that, especially with the children. What makes you feel sick? Yeah, it's a straight-up chemical with all kinds of man-made synthetic flavors and scents and chemicals in there. And some of them are like little micro hairs, and they're coming in and getting stuck in the lungs. Oh, you're kidding. On top of that.

So you've got that aspect of it. Your breathing is important. We also need to look at, in some ways, Electronic EMF toxicity is very much, we just don't see that as much but that's bombarding our brains, it's bombarded our organs, its messing up our regulatory system, and also emotional toxicity. Stress causes more damage than smoking, you know and smoking kills you. stress, negative people, drama, anger, all these bad emotions energetically are very very toxic as well and that will make you sick.

You know, you could eat processed food, but if you're around somebody that's maybe emotionally abusive or very negative or drama, that'll get you sick quicker as well. So we've got to also, when we look at it, so like you said, low tox, right? Hang around people that are more positive, less toxicity, and less drama, more positivity. Eat healthier food. Try to mitigate where we can because if we run around worrying about all the toxins out there, we'll stress ourselves out and they're causing more damage.

Exactly. So let's get into some liver specifics. People will often look at Let's say they're ALT, AST. So these are markers of liver health that your medical doctor will look at in your labs. And your doctor would say, they look fine. Is there anything else they should be looking at that they may be missing? Absolutely. You get your blood panel done. There's the lipid panel, which is cholesterol. They're looking for kidney function and all that. Then the liver panel is about eight biomarkers. And the three that they tend to look at most is ALT, AST, and gammas.

And those are indicative of maybe an infection or liver damage or a liver stress. If those were up, that's actually you've got a bigger problem. So you want to make sure your liver is healthy before you get to that point. But also the good thing people need to remember is a blood test is the lagging indicator. It's showing something that has already happened and you're just showing signals. All they are is basically You know, biological signals that they're picking up on that something's under stress.

It can also be a moment of time. We had a guy, we were at Wellspring, Wanderlust, and we had guy come up. He said, I came all the way to Gold Coast to come to get the scan done, because I knew you guys were here. I've just been diagnosed with fatty liver disease. And I'm really worried. OK, well, let's chat about this. How were you diagnosed? Did you have a scan? He goes, no. Said, do you ever have MRI? I said no, he said I had blood tests. A blood test will not show you if you're fatty liver disease.

It'll show if your got liver stress, but it doesn't. So let's just have a chill, go fast for two hours, come back up, pop on the table, we're gonna scan you, and we'll tell you right now exactly how much liver fat you have. Scammed the guy. Liver fat was fine. He had no scarring, no fibrosis, low liver fat. This poor guy has been running around for a week, stressed out of his mind because the doctor was using a lagging indicator on an old school way to tell. We used to use blood tests like that.

The liver clinic and my clinics and practices and all my medical team, that's only part of the data. And it's like looking through a pinhole. You need to see more. So you need do either a fibroscan, which we love, old schools and ultrasound and MRI. There's other ways to look at it. you're not getting the whole picture. We've also seen scenarios too, and a concern we have, kind of an example, is some of these cancer blood tests. so we've got cancer all running through us all the time. Anyway, cancer.

And if you get the blood test at the wrong time of the day, it might pick up.

Hidden Toxins in Daily Life 17:18

a bunch of cancer cells that are still minuscule, but if it picks them up at that moment, you might be terrified, doctors will go, we think you have cancer. So it can cause a lot of fear as well. A blood test is only part of the puzzle. It's important, it needs to be taken into effect with other things. You need to get an image of a liver to see what's going on. To your point, whether it's a fibroscan or an MRI. How often should people do that? How fast does this How fast can you develop fatty liver disease?

And honing in on fatty livers, because cirrhosis is a particular one, right? If you're a heavy drinker, then there's a better chance. Or if you've been a drink for a long time. But fatty is more insidious. And we can talk about this. You see fatty in people who look fantastic. So fatty liver disease, so liver diseases in general is at 400% in the last 50 years. Wow. You look, I've got this World Health Organization stats I'll share with you. Most diseases we're pushing down, they're coming down.

Medical technology is getting great. We're being more aware. Liver disease is an outlier and it's still accelerating. And do you think it is because of all these toxins and chemicals? And it really started, you talk to most surgeons, a lot of guys on my board are liver transplant surgeons. My cousins were one of the top liver transplants surgeons in University of Zurich, he was at University Toronto. And you didn't really see fatty liver before the early 80s. And what really happened in the late 70s, early 80s is that's when you started to see this huge uptick of certain pesticides, high fructose corn syrups, pesticides herbicides.

So you can correlate when these were released into the public in mass and then, because at first the surgeons didn't know what this was, why are these livers so fatty? So fatty liver, it can actually develop very quickly. When we do a clinical study, or any major university does a hepatology and we want to look at fatty liver disease the actual protocol that is used whether it's in zurich or toronto or london or miami is you put them onto a western standard diet so what's the standard diets we use in the medical community to induce fatty livers right And you can get it very quickly.

It depends on, sometimes it's cumulative, and sometimes, it can happen really quickly, because somebody goes on to like, remember the Super Size Me documentary? Like, his fatty liver disease must have been off the charts. I mean, he was dying at the end of the show. So, fatty-liver disease, that is 40% of population. 4-0. From their diet. It's most... And we're seeing it in kids now, right? Why aren't we seeing in children? Yeah, so we are working on a project with Maha, with Dr. Phil, about trying to get into the schools because 17% of teenagers now have fatty liver disease.

That's insane. 12% of people under the age of 12, so little kids have it. And the first time in history we've actually seen babies in India who are born with fatty liver disease and that's because the parents, it usually affects the poverty of low income quicker because of cheap calories and fake calories, and palm oils, seed oils. All these seed oil are a big causation as well. So you're seeing that happen, it's going. But you also have genetic differences as well. So, whereas in London where we're based, you have a huge South Asian population.

And we are seeing a lot of fatty liver disease, call it skinny fat. Now that's a genetic propensity. I think an Hispanic American will get it two times faster than a Caucasian, and a South You know, all the way from Iran, basically all way through India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, three times as fast. So whereas I would, on a Caucasian, I wouldn't start worrying if we were just going off of obesity, fatty liver disease, till their BMI was 30. South Asians, 22. At 22, you look great. So you have a lot less wiggle room as a Southeast Asian.

You get it much quicker. And why do you think that is? Is it because you're eating a diet that they weren't intended to? Like they've morphed into a kind of diet they were never meant to eat and their body's not able to deal with it as well? It's that and a genetic adaptation. Kind of a methodization switch that happened. In those populations, you would go through periods where you had monsoon periods and you'd have drought periods. So when they eat, that ethnic group, it goes away from Dravidians or Sri Lanka, they store those glycan packets on the liver.

So they stored more energy, so when they don't have a lot of food, then you see it with fasting now too, we're starting to see that. It's storing it because your liver thinks, okay, if there's a time where it's not plenty, I need to store this so we can get by. Yeah, except the buffet never ends. Correct. So you then take that population, you put them into London or to New York or Toronto, and they're now on a normal caloric diet, that switch hasn't shut off. There's going to be a couple of generations for that to switch off now because they are now into like a Western lifestyle.

You then take that as a causation, but then you amplify that if they're eating crap food. So if you're reading like high fructose corn syrup or preservatives and processed foods, then it's like just you've magnified it and it explosive. In India, we think it may be 50% of the population has fatty liver disease. That's crazy. And men between 45 and 65, about 65 to 70% will have fatty liver disease. So it does affect men. Two-thirds of fatty-liver disease is with men, one-third is women. It's the opposite of Alzheimer's.

Alzheimer is 70 percent of women, so it's said as well. Men are much more susceptible to it. And most of the women that get it is generally post menopause, because their whole system's changing as well. And that's like, they need to be very cognizant at that time of that transitionary period of a woman's life. You brought up a really good point about cirrhosis, what drinkers get. That's what I always thought, too, and that what most people think. And that's another, most people, we say, oh, do you want to get your liver scanned?

Or how's your livers? Oh, I don't drink. We know someone. I mean, not naming names, but a guy who lives a very healthy lifestyle doesn't drinks. But very plant-based diet. Very plant based, a lot of bread. And shocked. Exactly. 70% of people with liver disease is non-alcohol related. Yeah, it's NASH, right? Non-alcoholic. Yeah. Well, well it goes NAFLD, then you get NAS. NAFLD and then NAS? NAS is what you got. You're trying not to get that. That's a form of hepatitis. So that's non-alkoholic steatosis hepatitus.

Right. Your fat's got so bad that you start to have fibrosis and scarring and too much collagen and you've got NAS Okay, so nobody listening to this podcast is going to get to that point. Yes, yes, of course. NAFLD, which is non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, is the sneakier guy. Correct. But cirrhosis, we were touching on too, my godfather died of, when we where kids, it was about 94% of people with cirrosis was because of alcohol. 6% was non. As of 2022, 51% percent of the people who have cirrosis are non drinkers.

Wow. So that has gone from, you know, 4% to 51%. And what's that? Is that the chemicals or the sea oil? I think it's the combination of chemicals, processed foods, high fructose corn syrup, pharmaceuticals, all these chemicals. That's what is driving it. There is an interesting correlation. I discovered this because my mother-in-law's best friend had cirrhosis, never drank a day in her life. And I started asking her some questions, and I said, well, you know, I asked, did you have your gallbladder taken out?

She said oh yeah, my 20s. I go, when did he start getting liver issues? And she goes, actually since my 30s, And one of our investors' brother is the top gall bladder expert in the Netherlands. And they're doing a huge study, he'll publish it soon. They now have a direct correlation between pulling a gall bladder and then 10 years down the road, people getting a liver cancer and NASH, horrifically. Yeah, because if you think about it, The gallbladder is like your carburetor, right?

Liver Testing and Fatty Liver Basics 25:10

So your liver's producing the bile acids that break fats down. Another thing the liver does, it breaks 70% of the fats that we eat. And the gall bladder kind of acts like this carburator and releases it when it's needed. That's why if you want to trigger it in the morning, lemon water or apple cider vinegar before you eat, you're basically priming and firing your gall bladder to reduce these bile assets, to wake it up. Basically, I think due to economics and somewhat ignorance, is in the UK, somebody gets a gallbladder issue, they pull 35,000 gall bladders a year.

They just say, we don't need it. Actually, it's like the appendix. It seems like an extra organ almost, and it is tragic. And now we're seeing the ramifications of that mentality that started happening. And one of the reasons gallbladers are getting overloaded is because of dietary. I mean, Hyman said it really good. Mark, he said foods were killing us, bad food. So you take that carburetor out and then you're basically just attaching, you have a straight line of that bile acid going straight into the stomach.

And eventually what's happening is that's coming back up and starting to damage the liver, getting liver into toxicity. It's, I think it's also contributing greatly to leaky gut. So you have no control or regulation, and that's why we're seeing all these gnash and cirrhosis. I think that is one of the big causes of why the cirrhosus explosion is happening. No kidding. And so, is there anything that people can do who have had their gallbladders removed? What do you think? I always say if you've had your gallbladder removed, you need to be more cognizant when your diet is.

Yeah. You don't have to scared. Just be cognisant and I highly recommend getting a scan once a year. Because the blood test isn't going to show if your getting scarring. Right. Get a scanned once year and just keep on top of it because the liver is so amazing to regenerate. The beautiful thing and the silver lining in type 2 diabetes and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease is it's reversible. So we can shift it. The liver will forgive you. That's why we say love your liver, it loves you, you can come back from it, the liver can be 90% beaten up and destroyed and it'll come So there's a lot we can do for it, too.

Not being a negative, not only it's just we have to be cognizant of where the risks are. So what do you think the biggest blind spots are with people? You've kind of said it as we've been talking, but what are the things that people are doing that they don't realize is putting undue load on the liver? And after this, I want to talk a little bit about phase one, phase two detox. I'm going to take people through that a bit. But what are the big, let's encapsulate maybe or recap quickly, what is the biggest blind spots that people have that things they may be eating, exposing themselves to or doing that's really impacting their liver that might be easy for them to just turn off tomorrow?

So processed foods. Yeah. insecticides, pesticides, those are some of the things we don't really think about. We're aware of them, but how many of us really properly wash your vegetables before to get that off? That's something that doesn't take any time or money, just you have to remember to do it. That a hidden thing that's coming in that we can look at as well. The breathing, like you mentioned earlier, the air fresheners in the cars, all these little things that you can just, we have run around chicken little, where we start to make conscious decisions.

I always say the best thing you could do for your health It takes no time, no money, and it's instant, which is just being conscious. So those are some of the really important things. Pharmaceutical usage. When we get into paracetamol, the number one cause of liver damage and liver failure globally is excessive use of Tylenol and acetaminophen or paracetamol. And I love that you said excessive-use. Yeah. I do want to say, you know, there's been a bit of a panic about Tylinol over the last little while.

We're not talking about the person who uses Tylanol once in a while because they have a headache or a pain. Yep. But we're talking people who are popping Tylennols like candy because... All day. ...they're dealing with whatever's driving the issue that they think they're treating with their Tyleno. so which is kind of addictive of the society right now rather than getting to the or you practice root cause medicine i practice because medicine Rather than finding out what's causing it, people are just blanketing it over by, oh, I'll just take more throughout the day, rather than you could fix it.

And they're not maybe realizing how many they are taking. If it's for a headache, the best thing you can do for headache. First thing to do is go drink some water, because most headaches are dehydrated. It's your brain telling you, we need more water. You know, 70% water and if that doesn't work, pain is terrible. We don't want to be in pain. The better choice would be like an ibuprofen or an Advil. It's anti-inflammatory. A little tough on the kidneys, but it's not causing any damage. The reason paracetamol is so damaging is because it dissolves liver tissue.

So we have people in the transplant unit that have, usually teenagers who have tried to commit suicide or maybe a false cry for help, where they've eaten like a bottle of Tylenol. And we've got them in transplant because so many Tylinol at once is dissolved so much of the liver that the livers shot, we have to give them a transplant or they'll die. And that's, so every time you take it, it's dissolving a little bit of your liver tissue, but your livery goes back. So excessive use is the problem.

As long as you don't keep popping it. Correct. Yeah. Then magnify it with alcohol at the same time. Yep. If you're going to do Tylenol, you need it do it without alcohol. You're gonna have a drink. Don't take at same. Time. A lot of people use that as kind of that, the crutch that they've been hangover is or they've been drinking and then they add Tylenol to it as well. So two plus two doesn't four in that scenario. Two plus is like 34. Yeah. The damage compounds. To be candid, if I've got a really bad headache and I don't have the Advil, I'll take a Tylinol because I didn't want to be in pain.

I just drink a lot of water, take the deliverance, and do things to mitigate it. We don�t need to afraid of it, we just have to cognizant of and use it appropriately. A hundred percent. I love that. Okay, so let's talk about detox. All these detoxes that people are doing. And, you know, it's a process. This is not a weekend thing, and it is a daily thing. So, do you want to very quickly take people through what phase one and phase two detox is all about? Just let us do it in a snapshot. Perfect.

Because we do not want you melting in the sun. There are three phases of detox, this tan takes a lot of work. I would be turning around to this too any minute. I need to catch it. So detoxification is removing toxins from the body. And the bodies ability to do that far outweighs any detox. and you know you urinary tract and all things doing but detoxification so phase one is basically identification What are the toxins?

Cirrhosis, Gallbladder Removal, and Reversibility 32:20

And then it works on the process of basically turning them and making water soluble. And in your phase two, which is conjugation, Which is then making them, and preparing them into a way that the body can expel them. I'm doing a late version because it's much simpler. Yeah, because there are seven phases of fate. There are 7 different processes the Body can use in phase 2. So, identification, conjugations, prepping it to get rid of it, And phase 3 is elimination and getting rid it. Identify, get it ready to be get rid of, and then get It converts it back.

Converts it into that, which is actually not very complex to get. That's why NAD without M&A precursors, you're kind of a waste of money, really. Yeah. But it's just an example of... That why taking precursor as a supplement is a better idea, for sure. It's like getting your body ready. So your liver converts, it is like alcohol, right? Alcohol actually isn't what really is toxic that makes you really sick. After your livers breaks the alcohol down, The byproduct of that is called alcohol dehydrogenate, and that's what's super toxic.

So that the poisonous bit that makes you feel really bad. That's part of phase two. And so if your phase 2 is upregulated, you're going to convert alcohol faster into this toxin that will make you horrible. Correct. What are your thoughts on things like DHM? Well, if it's clogged too, too. If your liver is sluggish or fatty, your ability for phase three is diminished. So those toxins can actually build up. Actually, let's talk about this a little bit. This was a question I wanted to ask you before.

How does having a fatty liver affect your abilities to detox? Detoxins, like how does the having fatty livers bad? Okay, great. I don't want fat anywhere in my body. Nobody can see it when I'm in my bikini, so maybe I don't care so much. What is it about fatty liver that is so bad for the human body? What does it stop the liver from doing? Okay, happier liver, a great way for audience and for everybody to identify it from a classroom or give me a lecture. The liver is about the size of a small chihuahua.

Okay. So you want that chihua to be soft and squishy. And the softer and squishier it is, the better it works. It's like precipitation, it's how like liquids go into cells, right? So, at certain times of the day, if you have a big meal, your liver will actually grow by 40% while it's doing its thing and come down. Oh, that's why you kind of get that feeling. Yeah, because remember, the liver is up here. Most people think it is down here, it actually starts on the left side of your chest. the bottom of it follows the contour of your rib cage and the top of its about where your nipple is and it stays up here because it's protected by the ribs and its huge but it will grow by up to forty percent that's why people that do have cirrhosis they get this huge tummy and that delivers because its not getting rid of fluids and so if its fatty its ability to do this starts to diminish And it also has less surface area and less healthy surface-area affects insulin reactivity and how it deals with insulin.

So that's why fatty liver, 70% of type 2 diabetics have fatty-liver disease. Fatty liver disease is the foundational cause of Type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome because its functionality starts to go down when it gets fatty. So its ability to and a blood flow to create the acids to break fats down and it starts to snowball. So if it's fattier, its function goes down. Therefore you have all these issues and again, it gets starts, to get stiff because it is fatter. And if its stiffer, you start to more scarring information.

It also becomes sluggish. If it slugged its abilities to do this and to process and get toxins out and in. diminishes, so it's like being weighed down. It'd be like trying to go jogging with like a huge weight vest on and you're just not going to work as fat, run as fast. When you are not ready for it. Exactly. So that's really how it affects it and it can clog you up. Okay. That's interesting. One of the things I learned in school was, there's a couple of things. The liver doesn't store toxins.

It's a through way, right? But one of the things that I had learned is that between phase one and phase two, you often end up with an outcome that is more toxic than the thing that came in. So let's say substance A comes in, it goes through its phase one detox in the liver. It actually gets converted into something that's more toxic, which is why it's so important to support phase two. Like alcohol. So that toxin is in phase 1 before it can go through phase 2. Yeah, the conjugation. Okay, so when we take DHM, does that upregulate phase two detoxification?

Yes, yeah. Okay. Interesting. I've always wondered about that, and I'm like, I know, he's going to know the answer. Let's say if you had to pick two or three nutrients for liver that people should focus on, what would that be? Just to support the whole of the work? So glutathione is a master antioxidant, it has all kinds of uses, we do produce it, and we produce a lot of it. So what I actually do, like deliverance, I don't actually put glutothione in. I increase the body's ability to produce its own glutathiol.

Okay. Glutathion is obviously very good, but a lotta people might be deficient of as well. That's a very good question. What would be... What about Milk Thistle? People talk about milk thistle all the time. Milk thisle by itself is very, good. It's like a good basic herb to do. I used to use it, I don't use anymore because it doesn't play well with other herbs. Interesting. A lot of countries in Europe, you can sell it individually but you cant blend it. You can actually have a toxic effect if it's mixed with certain herbs, so by it self it is good, Interesting.

We don't need it because we're much more complex, but if somebody maybe can't afford deliverance or they just want something basic, milk, this is a very good basic one. Dandelion's fantastic. Yeah, like bitters. Aren't biters in general? Yeah. Bitters are very for them. That's kind of the old... Artichoke is considered bitter, isn't it? And then you can make extracts from that too. So artichokes are really good. Yep. Those are some of ones you could go through. Green vegetables are good, obviously leafy vegetables, spinaches.

Not kale, so much. The whole thing with kale and... Well, even spinach is pretty high in oxalate. Yeah, yeah, I know. I actually think that... Swiss chard... I think they've gotten a bad rap. To some degree, when you cook them, you can get rid of some of the oxides. If you have a problem with oxylates, obviously you'll have to be more cautious. Definitely not if you're doing an MRI. Have you seen some studies on that? Too many oxolates and if your on too much of a kale diet? Yeah. A lot of people eat kale.

Kale is more of like, not even a garnish. It's a garnish. Do you know the number one buyer of kale for most of the 20th century was actually Pizza Hut? Because at the salad bar, all that green that they put... Oh yeah, they used it as a background. It was kale. That's what it used to be used for, as like a backdrop. Because it just stays there. That's hilarious. Okay, so one marketing claim in the liver cleanse world you wish would just disappear. What should people look for instead? What's the thing that you hear that your like, are you kidding me?

Are you still plugging that? Um, some of the detoxification programs or the supplements that are saying to do detoxication is sometimes, and I used to this, which is more of an active approach. When you try to trick the liver or push delivery, detoxifications. I think that's actually, as somebody that used do that, I now pour that. I think it's better to listen to the body and reinforce it to do it. And some of these detox protocols can sometimes be actually somewhat harmful. The reason is if you go into proper detoxification, it is incredibly caloric intensive.

So if your not eating right at the same time, kind of like running an engine without any oil, you can actually cause damage. Some of the detox diets, if they are not paired with nutrition, And proper nutrition at the same time. I think one of the challenges with detox is also is that this idea that you can just do whatever you want and then detox once in a while and kind of get over the harm that Whereas the way that I view supporting detoxification in the systems, this is a daily event. It's a little bit what you were talking about before, starting your day with lemon water or having some apple cider vinegar before a meal, eating your bitters, all of these things that you do every single day.

Wash your veg. Get rid of the... get rid of the air freshener things for the love of God, totally.

Detox Pathways and Nutrients for Liver Support 41:10

Even detergents, right? Like laundry detergent. Yeah, we're very much like that. We noticed that, especially with our five-year-old and a seven- year- old, Cassandra and I, very healthy, but that's very important. If we were staying like at Airbnb here, We'll go to Sprouts and get like a healthy good soap and detergeant because it's on your skin, also dishwashers too. Some of those chemicals that they put in there so your glasses are like shinier. I mean, that is coating the glass and then you're drinking out of it.

So, those are ways that, like, that's another hidden, I guess, source of toxicity. It is a hidden source, and it's easy to get rid of. Although, it is not that easy because then when you go to the healthy dishwasher soap, your husband's like nothing's clean. And I can get over it, just take out a cloth, brush it. Okay, so let's keep moving because we're going to lose you to melting soon. How does liver health shape how we Like, does your liver, do you consider the liver having a direct effect on people's energy, mood, how they function?

Like if you have a sluggish liver are you gonna feel it? Absolutely. Not just feeling this, but are gonna you feel in your mood and your ability to think? So the first symptom of fatty liver disease is brain fog. It's really interesting. I was with Dr. Porter, who uses obviously brain tap and brilliant with the brain, and some neuroscientists. And I would say you do realize that the the Brain-Liver axis, he's a nice adventure, went through the science with him. So one of the first symptoms of fatty liver disease is brain fog.

The brain-liver axis is very key. Also for children, like an obese child or a child with fatty liver disease, we'll always test lower. So there's a direct correlation. Cognitive function, this is proven many times over in studies, cognitive function is decreased or handicapped if you have a fatty- liver. It's affecting your brain. When I say mental acuity, memory recall, speed, thoughts, brain fog, those are one of the things that's effecting right away is your Energy levels as well if it's sluggish.

You're gonna also get more fatigue and if its fattier your ability So that's right burning those energy members. It's a furnace generating of energy Yeah, if you if Itz got a weight belt on and you know a wait vest its ability to do that. So fatigue is one as Well That's why if we have a really big night. Let's say you're drinking a real big fatty meal and you start to get tired, or as well, because your liver's working so hard, it's burning a lot of calories. Remember I said it it is caloric intensive.

So that is probably two of the key factors. What was the third part of your question? I had another thought I just lost. I was asking just about energy and mood. Oh, and anger. Let's talk about emotion. Angry people, anger resides in the liver. And angry people will actually develop more liver issues. And they get more liver cancers. They get liver situations. And vice versa, if they've got a liver issue, they'll actually become angrier. So you could actually be not really an angry person. But if you're starting to get angry a lot more, that's actually a warning sign that you may have a living issue.

Everybody's talking about menopause and perimenopausal. Finally, women. liver plays a big role in there. Do you want to touch on that a little bit? Because I think everybody's rushing to hormone therapy, which I thing is fantastic if you're getting assessed, but I'm a believer in supporting the liver if at any point. But certainly as we're going through this transition in life, the livers starts to take a real hit. Well it starts take real hits and I'd say one of our main three areas of focus at the Liver Clinic and Deliverance is actually women's health and menopause and all the great hormone doctors or anyone that's really good and up to speed on like integrative medicine, functional medicine.

You should definitely not start any hormone therapy until their liver is in optimal shape because you could actually be oversubscribing or wrongly subscribing the amount of hormone because the liver is maybe, you're compensating for it. So the first thing is get the livers into a really good place because liver, is going to be managing and processing and breaking down all those hormones. You need the live in best tick then goad as well. Also if your liver out of whack you may be estrogen low or estrogen high or progesterone high, so your estrogen and pro gesterones can be out It could be just because your liver's out of whack.

So sometimes I think, and I've seen this, women have been misdiagnosed of going into early menopause and it was actually just the liver issue. That wasn't managing their hormones, probably. Correct. And in the UK, you know, they've got six minutes to see a patient. They're just throwing in HRT without even really seeing the whole picture. Start with the liver first and then go through the hormone talk, what hormones to use, obviously bioidentical is the best way. The cheap ones that are bovine that come from cows, those are the ones with higher risks.

So having your liver in shape before and during is absolutely paramount to properly dealing with that. In deliverance, some of the ladies on my board, for instance, she's going through menopause and she takes the deliver into the day because it delivers really healthy, so she doesn't get the hot flashes and the night sweats, right? Night sweats you're detoxifying. So you are detoxing. These are all symptoms of deliver and deliver is working really, really hard if you want hormone therapy. That's why I got this.

This is really important for anybody that's on, any women that are post-menopausal drinking. I used to talk a lot about in these talks, this is a famous study. where women that drink alcohol between the ages of 20 and 45 prevent a puzzle. three times a week or 33 percent higher chance of getting breast cancer. The reason is because as we're drinking that much alcohol, the liver is not functioning as well. Therefore, it's not shedding the hormones that you have during menstruation. Those are building up, they're building toxicity in the breast and then it is metastasizing.

I got asked on that. Another doctor colleague said, can you find me that study? So I was going through my records trying to find the study and I popped across this study that was done in Denmark and it was 10,000 women and they looked at the correlation between post-menopausal women drinking alcohol and an HRT. I'll send you the study, it's fascinating. So if you're a woman post menopause and you are an H.R.T., if it gets two to three drinks a day, you have a 300% higher chance of breast cancer.

If you drink four drinks today, 500%. So the biggest cadre of binge drinking in the female community are postmenopausal women. So they're the most risk. That's one of the things that I think is driving some of these explosions of breast cancer. so that's really important that if you're going to be on HRT, don't drink. And is it because it's just too much load on the liver? Like the livers trying to deal with too. It can't deal everything. And if you've got to pick between alcohol and bio-identical hormone therapy, pick the hormone.

You'll feel so much better. Yeah. Then when you're done with the home on therapy have a glass of wine when your done. When you do the cycle or whatever. Again, I mean to bring context back to this if your on hormone and you are having a wine once or twice a week. Yeah, a glass of wine's not going to do anything. And I'm not talking the full glass. I am talking like a normal glass, not the 12 ounce. This is three drinks. So this is like three, four drinks in that study. Yeah. Because people always think, oh, I m this liver expert and I thought leader and work all these things about how bad alcohol is.

They say, yeah, alcohol, it's a toxin. Bad for you, but so is stress and at the end of the day sometimes stressing about having that glass of wine or not having it Or maybe you don't know how to deal with stress or an emotional situation a glass a wine can actually make you feel really good and it can Actually, you know a little bit of can calm you down, it can bring about more, there's positives with social aspects of it as well. And as I always say, you know, the best medicine is laughter and having a glass of wine with your girlfriends or your mates and you laugh more.

That's a very, very healthy thing to do. Just do it in moderation. Yeah. A glass. Not a bottle. All right. So what are, are there any lab signs that you might that you might look for that is saying that the liver is affecting hormone balance? I guess it's the imbalances in the hormones. When you're doing the blood test on the hormone, obviously skin, so breakouts can be a great sign of hormone imbalance. That's why puberty, pubescence have it a lot too. Yeah, because I want to talk about younger people too, right?

Go ahead. So that's a good sign as well. The liver panel, if the cholesterol starts to shoot up, that another sign that your liver's not in good tick as Another thing that the liver does is it's processing, creating, breaking down, and managing your cholesterol, which are lipids. And a lot of people are afraid of cholesterol. They think, oh, it' fat. Cholesterol is arguably one of the most important molecules in the body. So sometimes high cholesterol that also you're firefighters for inflammation.

70% of your cholestrol is genetic.

How Fatty Liver Affects Energy, Mood, and Hormones 50:10

But sometimes you may have high cholesterol because maybe you've got some inflammatory thing or a mold damage. There could be other things. So cholesterol is a warning. It's a fireman. Yeah, the little firemen running around. You don't want them leaving plaque. And it's the size of the cholesterol actually that really matters. The small ones stick to the arterial wall and cause plaque, big ones just kind of cruise through. That's also a sign of something else too. Also water retention if you're retaining a lot of water.

Maybe your kidneys or livers aren't functioning as well. And that could be a hormone imbalance as well. So these are, they're all things to kind of tweak with. Plus, you know, there's a lot of things that are affecting hormones in women and men, especially young girls, in a lotta meat that we eat. Certain hormones that're in certain chickens, and so that's why in some of the countries that aren't really regulated as much and they give all these chicken-load of hormones, like in Mexico and South America, You've got little girls getting their periods at like eight, nine years old.

Oh, you're hearing about it here. Yeah, so that's because it's too much hormones. And it is interesting. This applies in the United States, in London, and Europe as well. One of the largest contaminants in drinking water, or tap water is actually birth control. Because even though when it goes through the recycled water and the water filtration plants and what have you, the water works, that doesn't get filtered out. So that's why we're seeing a lot of endocrine disruption, and I think you're seen a a you know, low testosterone in men.

I mean, men's testosterone has dropped like 80% in the last 40 years. And women are having a lo more because, you now, estrogen though, is a woman's best defense against cancer. You don't want it too low, but also you don t want too high. Yeah. and you could be getting it from another source. That's Even when you water filter, your house is super important, the quality, because you cook with it too. Remember, you fill a bowl, a pot up, and you're making spaghetti or vegetables or putting in your tea or your coffee, You're going to be getting hormones from that as well.

So that can affect your hormone balance as Well. That's important to look at or taking a bath. That's why you take a great like a bath, like Himalayan salt or magnesium salts. Those are things. Epsom salts, yeah. I have to bring this up because this is something you taught me, which I now try to tell everybody too. One of the big sources of toxicity with oversupplementation that we don't realize is magnesium stearate is an ingredient in a lot of supplements, but they're not listing it because it's more part of it.

It's not the main thing. That part is the binding and the mix up. Well, it is showing up in the other ingredients. And the challenge we have there, just to jump in, is the people who are running around claiming that they're taking 60, 70, 80, 90 capsules a day, if you're not careful and those 60 70 80 90 capsule a they all have a little bit of magnesium stearate, it's not enough to hurt you. Guess what? When you multiply that by 90, It's enough. To create a problem. It is one of the many reasons, and I want to get to talking about deliverance because we're going to run out of time soon, It's just one of the small reasons why I love this because there's no nothing other than the medicinal ingredients that you want.

Yeah, fillers and binders. No filler's bindings. Flow agents. There's a lot of stuff hidden in food and in vitamins and supplements because of manufacturing process. It was like what Jamie Oliver in the UK, a famous chef, came out and he exposed that the reason McDonald's meat beef in the United States as well is that red color is they wash it in ammonia because it's gone brown and they washed it and ammonia so it turns pink so looks like fresh meat but you don't list that as an ingredient because its a manufacturing process and he exposed that he had to stop doing that so let me talk about liver crisis we're having our all our children's burgers and our burgers we thought it was safe was being washed in ammonia.

So this hidden bugaboos, like the magnesium things, I learned that from you and I tell all my patients that. I've told other people on the podcast that we cite you because you taught me that, which I love. Well, did you ever hear, and I remember learning this a long time ago, that in cereals where they're trying to keep them crispy, like for example, in the old days, I don't even know if the cereal still exists, there was Rice Krispies. And our whole campaign was rice crackle pop, because when you poured your milk on top, it would make those noises.

They were lining the bags with a chemical to keep the cereal fresh and crispy, which is actually a toxin. But it doesn't have to be listed in the ingredients, because it's not technically in this cereal. It's just in a bag liner. So I don't know if that's still a thing. This is going back to where I was. And you know, they're all just trying to make a product that people are going to like. For whatever reason, these chemicals have been grandfathered, or they are not being regulated. Because they aren't technically IN the food, That's why they still got that McDonald's hamburger, like it's 40 years now, it still looks the same.

You know, this is actually a funny, true story, an anecdote. Remember, you know with Chevy Chase National Lampoon's vacation? So in Christmas vacation, his character Mark Griswold, he worked at a company that produced chemicals done in food. and he talks about, he's like, oh, what are you working on? And he goes, we've got this new varnish that we created for cornflakes where it's completely clear. It coats the corn flake so it keeps it crunchy in the inside. He keeps the milk from penetrating into the cereal.

And I'm like is that real? I looked it up. That is a real thing. They actually have these chemical, basically like a wash that they do to keep a corn flakes crunchy or rice crispier to make it pop. So that's another hidden, like processed food. Just get some fresh granola. Fresh granolas, muesli. But they joke about it in the thing. They're in their office. And it's horrible. All right. So I want to talk a little bit about fasting. Yeah. Then I wanna ease into, I wanted to about this formula because this stuff is magic.

We might have to end the podcast with a shot each. But let's talk a little bit about fasting and the liver because I do think it's a powerful strategy. It's free and it can be really effective as part of Fasting is very important, it's very good. It's one of the only things that can cause the body to create in your brain cells. So there's a lot of good to fasting as well. When you think about it, breakfast means to break your fast, which is good, and I think- Which assumes that you stopped eating more than three hours ago.

Yeah. Well, I thinking if you worked probably in the farm or more in agriculture, what most of us did up until the last 150 years, is you'd get up in morning, you have a big breakfast, you know, lunch would probably be like around 10, and you'd have early dinner, so you would have that. So that time period to give your body kind of a different metabolic reset, I think is very good for fasting. Too much fasting could probably cause some damage, but I thing fasting is important. I'm a big fan of intermittent fasting, eight hours on, 16 hours off.

What we did see, which is interesting, some people that are fasting too much, or they just started fasting or even maybe a carnivore diet, we were seeing liver fat spike. Interesting and not is which ties into the the GOP ones antagonist and those as well if that's because your body thinks you're starving because it's not used to that regular once you regularly fasting it won't do it but early days it like oh shit maybe he's starving cuz they think we're out hunting and we are not finding anything so let's store more glycans on the liver yeah so that if a bear comes out and chases us we can burn it and run away And when are we going to get our next meal?

So you actually start to accumulate some liver fat there. But once you get your body kind of gets used to this pattern, it's like, OK, let's calm down. Let's get the cortisol under control, the fight or flight. We don't need to be storing this. This is just the new cycle that the person's on. Okay, so there's an adaptation period to fasting. Yeah, and not a long one, too. Your body can get used to certain things as well. That's why if you eat lots and lots of lots, like in America, your stomach gets bigger.

So actually, fasting, going to smaller meals, you're stomach will shrink, that's a natural way to have cessation and to not get as full quickly. You're body could adjust very quickly on things like that. what we are seeing, which we need to get the microplastics sometime in this check, because we didn't discuss that. So micro-plastic is obviously... I mean, it's one of the toxins, again, we don't mention it yet, but I think it is really important. And one other reasons that we're really, I guess, more in the public eye now, and we discussing it more, what were seeing it a lot more and the hepatology community and liver community more is because of this ginormous rise of GLP-1s, the Rogovis, Manjaros, you know, these weight loss products.

Toxins are stored in your fat. Microplastics are store in you fat and you may have, and we all do, probably microplastic that we've absorbed over 30 years, obviously more recently with like fish, especially people that eat a lot of fish. You're getting so much with fish and packaging on the food and water bottles and stuff, so you're accumulating it. and you might have accumulated 30 years of it, but when you go and dump 20% of your body weight in two, three months, you've dumped all this microplastics at once and the liver's getting overloaded and we're starting to see actually some cases where the livers just like saturated with micro plastic beads.

So too much weight loss too quick is dumping a lot of micro plastics into the living to the body and that's a big concern.

Fasting, GLP-1s, and Microplastics 59:20

When I was in school, the first thing they taught us was before you detox, before push a detoxification pathway of the body, make sure that the doors of detox are open. And I think this goes back to what you said earlier with HRT, for example. Make sure the liver is in good shape. before you or as you. So if you're on GLP-1s, you've got to be taking care of your liver at the same time because otherwise it's just going to get clogged up. It's part of the reason why one of things that we don't talk about enough with GLp- 1s and there's a couple of them that are particularly efficient at driving, because it slows the movement of food through the GI tract, it slow that peristalsis.

A lot of people end up constipated. This is a calamity because if you're constipated, all these toxins that your body, your liver's done all the work. It's like, okay, we've done the, work we moved it out. And guess what? It comes back. It gets reabsorbed into the body. And it's an uncomfortable calamity too. So now you're skinny, bloated and toxic. Not good. But so really, really taking care of these, making sure those doors are open. And that's really interesting about the microplastics. I've always heard that toxins are sequestered in fat to your body.

This is like the perfect hiding place because it doesn't use fat, but making sure that you're able and making that. You don't. And this is the other thing we see. We see people going to very high dose because they're like, OK, well, I have a party in three months.I need to cut all this weight.And they think that by going super high-dose, they are going get to a better place. so you'd be dumping taxes too quick which is which has bad um... another uh... risk with the you know the antagonist was called the g l p one's the regal reason uh… um… manjar's cuz it's like different complexities to them there's a lot of good for because obesity is a huge risk huge problem yeah but what you're seeing is because everybody's this gold rush is going and try at least it can stop cuz bobby kennedy's bringing the prices down so everybody a cowboy out there you got dentists putting people onto you-know-what skin care places putting onto g o p ones If you do not have the right nutritional plan and exercise plan, 50 to 70 percent of your weight loss could be muscle.

And for women, for men, or for older people, if you lose 50 percent your muscle mass, it's very hard to get that back on. So you really have to have an awesome diet, a lot of right protein, weight training or resistance, so you've got to really work hard. You should definitely not go into one of those unless you're doing some exercise or you'll lose all this muscle, not to mention the toxic load. So, and you have to do it in phases. Too much, too quick is where you're gonna get a lot of problems.

And that's where, you see that they're calling it an ozempic phase, where they look really drawn, kind of like a heroin addict looks like. You know, it's all like, they just don't look good. To much skin. Like, do is slowly so the skin also adjusts, because if you do too much you gonna be like like fat bastard in Out to Powers. Yeah, with all this skin, so you gotta do in moderation. Have a good diet. Do that as well and also take care of your liver. I'm working on a protocol right now. I actually had an amazing panel talk with Dr.

Gabrielle Lyon about muscle. It's funny, because she says muscle is the most important organ for longevity. IC, it's liver. We actually concur. So in this talk, I said the bidirectional relationship between muscle and liver is so key. And that sparked this idea. Wait a minute. The two biggest risk factors for a GLP-1 is muscle loss and 80% of the antagonists that have submitted to the FDA were pulled by the drug companies because of liver damage. So you are getting a lot of living damage from those if they're not used properly.

You have to really make sure you don't do them, but if you do do, watch your pancreas, clean up your diet, get a lotta protein, do resistance training, and do it in a proper, timely fashion. Good things take time. And you rushing it, you can cause all kinds of damage downstream. I love that you say that. If you're wondering how we're now reversed, it's because we are sitting in the sun. Siggy was melting, I'm going back to Canada, and I need the vitamin D. We had to change the battery so we took the opportunity, so I hope you don't mind.

Plus, now you get to see our other sides. Yeah. All right, so what we said we were gonna talk about next is actual deliverance. Yes. We've talked about the toxins. Some of the easy things you can do to support a healthy liver. The many reasons why a health liver is gonna show up in your ability to function, your able to think, you skin, muscles, digestion, health, longevity. You're not gonna make it. to 180 years old, whatever your target is, if you don't have a healthy liver, or you at least support your liver's ability to regenerate on the fly as it does.

But let's now talk about this magic that's in this box, because I've had the gift of experiencing it, my husband's had a gift to experiencing, and this is a labor of love for you, this a lifetime of passion wrapped up in a box. Yeah, I'm very proud of it. It's my life's work, accumulated in that. And to be candid, it's so complex and so amazing that it took 18 years of R&D. I've worked with epigenetics, Chinese medicine doctors, herbalists, molecular biologists, some of the best stem cell guys in the country, endocrinologists hepatologists cellular microbiologists.

I mean, the list goes on and on. So this was formulated over 18 years in South Korea, Japan, Europe, Switzerland, United States. And it's a combination of all these different experts. No one person could have created this product. It took this collective of brilliance and me bringing in different expertise. Like one of guys on my board, He was at Professor at Skulk Institute at UCSD. He's from Professor Monash. And his specialty, he's a cellular neuroscientist, but his speciality is hydration and how you get into the cell membrane with hydration, and with liquid, how we go into this cell.

So it took that to do this product. The product is based off of traditional herbal medicine, Korean, which is very similar to Chinese medicine. Ayurvedic influence, everything's plant-based, but we use the best of technology. So one of the ingredients, for instance, when you take deliverance, you know the mental clarity you get really quick. Yeah. I'm always arguing, should I take it in the morning, or should it take at night? You can take whatever you want the mentor clarity for that, and that's something that has an immediate effect.

And that molecule took 15 years to identify, it only grows in one plant in place in world. Now we have to take a thousand kilos of this sea kelp, We process it down to one kilo, which is about this big, and then we get one gram. It goes through a four-part distillation process. So we do work on a molecular level, but everything is 100% natural. Even the preservatives are natural, And that took me a couple of years. There's this incredible Australian natural preservative basically mixture that we came up with.

And so there's ingredients in it from Australia, South Korea, India, United States, Canada, The peppermint oils from France, it's organic and other farmers that make it. So it is, you know, I want to give everybody the credit that's worked on that and has continued to work on it, we've spent close to 20 million, has been spent on studies and clinical studies on this product to get it that way. And because it so important, like I used to do, create a formula and this is really good and it looks great on paper, let's sell it This product, I didn't release it until it was ready, and we would do a formula.

I would a study, then I'd adjust the formula, they'd do the study. So it's constantly doing that, we're still constantly evolving. Are you evolving this continually still, or do you think you got it? I think I've got it for this, but I would be naive to think that I can't take it further. So we're working on other aspects of it too. Um, so it is evolving right now. This is second to none, uh, from a liver perspective. Uh, we are working out some other cool, cool applications or ways to take into the 21st century.

If we do another talk, I'll we'll go to some really deep stuff. with the liver and chimerism and some mind-blowing things that... We'll do a part two. Yeah, and stem cell, I think we can reverse cirrhosis with stem cells directly with a needle the size of a hair filament into the scarring, ultrasound-guided, put in stem-cells, open up that pathway, reverse the cirrosis, we'll get into that later. But don't you reverse your cirrosis with this already? we don't haven't you got some stories about well we've seen fatty liver disease every day and like at the show right here the money we had people that have kept their work in a year ago or three months ago we have a guy who's big in the field uh...

he had he'd come into london i didn't know about it he's a part in scots by partners a great cellular uh… developer he he says uh.. sailor biologist he develops great formulas he a bunch of scarring came in two months to go to fibrosis level two was on deliverance for two months, popped in to get a scan, totally in the green. So we are reversing scarring and we're reversin fatty liver disease in three months. Three to six months and some of the big thought leaders in our space and family members, friends.

In fact, the gentleman on the other side of had stage three fatty liver disease and after two months we reversed it as well a lot of people in the space

Deliverance Formula and Packaging 1:09:00

so and with fatty livers he's in forty percent two billion people on the planet are fighting liver diseases that's what's driving cardiovascular disease that striving diabetes that straight metabolic is, and if you Google it, they said there's no treatment for it. There's some drugs coming out, but we're not there. And we are doing it with plants and we doing every day. We're so confident in the efficacy of the product that what we do is we say in an ideal scenario, go get a scan done. Go to your doctor, get an MRI.

or bloods take deliverance and then as soon as 90 days we'll test you again so we prove the proof is in the pudding and we do that through data and evidence So if your left brain, you're like, well, I saw my biomarkers this. And if you right brain which to some people is more important, how do I feel? When your liver gets really healthy and you are on deliverance, within minutes you get mental clarity and over the next couple of weeks your skin improves, your hair improves. Sleep. You lose a little bit of weight a lot of the time.

Your processing better so you can feel the difference. You can see the difference, and you can know the different when you're looking at biomarkers. So we tie that together. And I love proving that. What I like about a scan is people get a relationship with an organ that they don't really know. Remember, the liver doesn't have any nerve endings, so you don' really feel it. No. If you feel your liver, you've got problems. You know, we used to go to the doctor they still do it but the old school when you lay on the back and they're pushing it They're actually feeling your liver.

Yeah, that's the Old-school way to feel is your lever. Is your chihuahua soft and squishy or is it stressed and intense? That's what they used do. So, you know we're making it soft in squishy and we doing that because the liver is such a holistic organ you have to You have to think like that. How are we affecting the oxygen in the blood, the metabolization? What's happening with this? We're working on the spleen, kidneys, nutrients, opening up pathways for it to do its thing. There are 17 ingredients.

And I've had Chinese medicine doctors and herbalists be like, well, that doesn't do anything for the liver. I'm like not by itself, no. But if I take this molecule that's in this plant and this one molecule in that plant, and I put them together, you have a completely different effect. That's chemistry. So you can't look at it through like a tunnel. Or a hepatologist couldn't come up with this formula. because they're looking at it as a hepatologist. You need other endocrinologists that people understand the brain.

So that's why the formulas are incredible because it took all these specialties and this like synchronization and collage of variants to create it. It's not just a liver supplement. What you're saying is it's affecting the body and so that everything is supporting better liver function. Absolutely and say great way to do is delivers the hero in this whole story Yeah, and what deliverance is doing is it's optimizing the livers function than letting the liver do its thing So in my I love like anecdotes So I'm thinking like you've given the Liver like a shield and a sword and maybe some armor and you made that hero more robust better defended and more emboldened to Do its job The other ingredient, the one that you feel right away, that's a neutropic.

Of all the neutropics out there, this is one of the ones, rare ones that can actually feel immediately. Which one is that? That's the CnL, one part per million that we do. Oh, CNL. That molecule. What that is doing is no caffeine or sugar. It's increasing neurotransmission. And we have neurotradition in the body, but most of the neurottransmission is in brain. So what we're doing is we are increasing the neuro-transmissions so you're thinking clearer and faster. I originally did that to help somebody that was cognitively handicapped because they had fatty liver disease, But a lot of people actually just like it for that purpose.

Um, especially like women, for instance, women's circadian clock is as different than men's. Women tend to get an energetic dip in the afternoon, usually 2 to 5 p.m. I think because of being mothers. And that's a good time to take deliverance because it gives you the mental clarity. and it gives you the kind of that energy but it's not going to affect your sleep later and that's always a worry because you know you're tired of taking a coffee but like if I take a copy and I love coffee which by the way coffee is incredibly good for the liver if it is good coffee 100% as long as you get the mold and things like that but coffee generally is very good so but it could affect your sleep.

So I can't drink coffee after one because my sleep quality is going to go down. That's like a really good time to take it. We're working on, so it's simplified to three things. It's a nootropic brain. Optimizing liver function is two. And then thirdly, it is very, very high in antioxidants and anti-inflammatories. and we're getting into the mitochondria and invigorating the mitocondria as well. so its immune system, liver, brain, all of those together. So I do want to explain to people how, why this is packaged the way that it is.

It's single dose. Yep. Um, it's very special materials that you're using because we talked about microplastics a minute ago, so I want you to address this. Yes. The elephant in the room, right? So, I'm addressing this on the podcast because, we released this to my membership community early. Yeah. And I got all these questions back and I am calling Sigi and am like, SIGI WHAT? Yeah, and that's important. Let's just knock it out of right here, right now. So, at somebody that is really focused on getting rid of microplastics, like I even get, I just did my second TPE, total plasma exchange.

Yeah. That's a great way to get rid off a lot of microplastics to be built up over a lifetime. I looked at all the different ingredients. Aluminum, i was concerned about potential issues with toxicity with aluminum. And so what we found the best solution thus far, was, we're looking at bioplastics, but the bioplastics degrade too quickly, and they're very, very expensive. And they'll de-grade into your... Correct. They're cost prohibitive. So what these are is, I said, well, what's the best we can do right now?

So it's closed-loop plastic, that means it is recycled plastic. yesterday this might have been a frisbee it's a deliverance bottle today it gets fully recyclable so tomorrow it could be a medical device so it is bpa free very high level korean uh... recycled plastic that's fully recycled with the top uh as well and it preserves it good news is which i haven't showed you a picture of which I will later today is we've now cracked it we come out with a pharmaceutical grade amber glass with an aluminum top that has natural silicone lining.

Those have come out. And we've been working on that and trying to find a solution, but it was so expensive and breaking. We've nailed it now. It was actually one of the people that really prompted us to it, was Rosewood Hotels in London. They're like, we love the product, it's so good. Our customers love it. but we need something better packaging. So we were able to kind of bust through and we've now got the new bottles that are coming out that our amber glass, medical grade, pharmaceutical grade and aluminum top.

No paint on the aluminum because a lot of the aluminium can have paint, those chips can. This is actually oxidized during the manufacturing process and those are really good. I'll send you a box as soon as they're done, I just bought the machine that actually puts the caps on. That's so exciting. It's being shipped over right now. So that's super exciting. Now the reason it's liquid is if I was really like fiscally conservative and obsessed with making more profit, I would make a powder because it is cheaper.

For sure. But you lose a lot of the energy, especially with plant medicine, how we work. The bioenergy is killed when you put it into a power form. Yeah. It's like when we pasteurize honey, you kill most of it. People need to know this about tea. Great teas have a lot of antioxidants. When you put boiling water on it, you kill most of the antioxidants, so always do like a light boil, or if you can't adjust your teapot, just let it chill for a minute, because you'll kill a little bit of goodness.

You let them come off the boil. Exactly. So you do that if try to go cheap and put it into a pill. I spend more money on this, and it costs a bit more, but we keep it in liquid. And because we use all natural preservatives, there's no binders or anything like that. You just give it a shake and it tastes like peppermint and honey, which you know. and a cool thing is most people like the flavor but the people that don't within about a week they do and the reason is is because the biofeedback kicks in and your body says this is good for you and you brain tells you no this tastes good so it'll change that as well and here's like an interesting people are like why are you putting a bigger bottle you have less wastage well as this i mean the antioxidants in this this would be equivalent to eating about a thousand blueberries to get the same antioxidant.

And just by nature of antioxidants, the minute oxygen hits it, it starts oxidizing. So if you did a big bottle, you would do it. Without kind of disparaging them, but I know this because I asked the scientists, they have a huge bottle. Once you open that bottle it's oxidized. It's like a bottle of wine. You open a wine, and you pour it in a day. You know, doesn't taste as good. Day two is salad dressing, day three is vinegar. And that's because oxygen breaks all the antioxidants down. So to keep this, I mean, that what it's called.

It's call an antioxidant elixir because there's so many antioxidants in this. I've done that because most people get in the systemic consistent inflammatory condition where we're constantly inflamed. Oxidative stress causes inflammation. and inflammation causes more oxidative stress. So we get in this vicious cycle. A lot of disease and a lot doctors smarter than me will say that most disease comes from chronic inflammation. Absolutely. And I'm trying to break that cycle so there's four different types of anti-inflammatories in here plus a load of antioxidants.

We're trying bust that cycles as part of the healing process. And I didn't want to create a brain product, a liver product or a menopause product. I said, let's just create one amazing product that can be your baseline. So like for me, I take this. And then once in a while I'll do some peptides. So I think that's been fantastic learning as well. And to do them properly in the quality. So we have shared a lot of the same ethos. It's not quantity, it's quality and how you're doing it, not too much and doing the right ways.

This is a great baseline for pretty much most of your needs. Anti-inflammatory, antioxidant immune system brain and your liver, it's just giving your powerhouse, the magical liver. Everything it needs. Yeah. Well, I think we're going to, next time we talk, we are going have done a couple of experiments with deliverance and the liver bioregulator. I would love to collaborate. When I saw you at Copenhagen Health Week and you were speaking, Cassie and I were watching you. And I had that thought I wanted to talk to you about, actually, but I didn't do it until today.

I would love for you to help develop my liver clinics and for our liver health, let's put together like basically a protocol of bioregulators and peptides to to helps us on our mission that we're doing. 100%. I think the bi oregulator would be easy. Okay, I have a couple of quick fire questions for us to finish. Oh, actually, last thing. So if somebody doesn't have any liver... So number one, guys, if you can, get imaging done so that you get a baseline. If you need to do some work on your liver, you're going to be looking at about three months of product.

Yeah. It's an extreme issue. You're gonna be look at it twice a day. if it's like a moderate to mild issue, one of these days will do the trick for you. Let's say somebody checks it out and says, okay, I don't any have liver issues. Yep. I'm still a big believer in using this, at least periodically, in cycles to support the liver because of all the inputs that we have coming in. Absolutely. And your skin, and your hair, your immune system, we all need that anyway. Yeah. As always, the saying is, you know, when did Noah build the ark?

Yeah, yeah. Before the flood. Don't wait. No, before the rain. So, yeah, it's much easier for us to prevent you getting disease than it is once you have it.

Using Deliverance, Coffee, Alcohol, and Practical Liver Habits 1:21:00

So would you say like a 30 days every three months would be nice for someone who has a very healthy lifestyle? If they're very health, I would do like, a month on, wait a couple of months, maybe every 3 months. I take one every day because I, you know, getting older and I travel, want to keep my cholesterol low. A lot of our patients or customers maybe are statin hesitant or don't want go on statins. It keeps their cholesterol in balance because the liver is good. It keeps your hormones in balance.

So it is a great thing to take every day, but it's not inexpensive. Taking one is better than nothing. But I would say either one a day or month on, month off. Or a lot of people just take it if they have to drink. If you have alcohol, take one afterwards. Oh yeah. You have a fatty meal. Maybe if you've had a medical procedure done and you had anesthetics, or you been exposed to toxicity, maybe just use it as an ad hoc scenario. Yeah, keep it in the house. Party or toolkit. Yeah, next to your diet.

But a really fatty meal, I'll take one too. And if you're taking Tylenol, maybe take on of those. Yeah. Okay, what's the most boring thing you can think of that someone can do to support their liver? The most... One boring, one boring that's super inexpensive that anybody can start doing today to help support the liver. Stay properly hydrated and drink more water. Great. I love water, but it's boring. What's a healthy habit that quietly trashes liver health? A healthy habit. A supposedly healthy habits.

It's not really healthy. But something that people are doing that they think is healthy Well, probably people that exercise don't get proper nutrition right afterwards, too, because the benefit of exercise is not the exercise, it's the recovery. And a lot of people exercise and they don' eat afterwards or do things afterwards to properly support or replace those lost nutrition. I think that's something a lots of forget to do, which is incredibly important. Love it. You touched on coffee a minute ago, but very quickly, coffee and the liver, friend or foe and how much?

absolutely best friend. So coffee is a very good antioxidant and there's a couple of huge NIH studies. If you drink two cups of coffee a day, you have a 44% less likely chance of getting liver cancer. When you get a scan with us, we always say, like a fibroscan, don't drink coffee for two to three hours before. The reason is because it brings so much blood into the liver we don' get as good of a reading. But that's another good thing that coffee is doing, when you're drinking coffee, more blood is going into your liver.

and the more blood in the liver, better. You want more water in your liver so that it's functioning really, really well. Just think of it like a beautiful waterfall versus like, a river that's clogged. That's why you get a phase three. Oh, that is going to back up. Yeah. I love it. But there is a point of diminishing return on coffee. So this is not your permission slip to have 10 coffees a day. No, it is one to four. Okay. One to 4. And what you add to the coffee makes all the difference. Like some of those Starbucks drinks are like diabetes drinks.

I call them diabetes drink. And artificial dyes and all this too. Oh, this is super important, which everybody needs to know this, too, so we were noticing a lot of people that were having fatty liver disease were teenagers. We would do a whole family like in England, we'd go and do like a family. And you do the parents, they drink wine, and they eat meat, little fatty, which is normal, some of the staff. And then the teenagers were like stage three fatty liver disease, pre-diabetic, all this. The common thing we kept seeing was their consumption of diet soda.

So diet, soda, well, this makes sense. Well, the liver is inherently intelligent, like I said. Think of liver as defending you all day. and it understands sugar and fat and knows how to deal with you. And if you give it aspartine or these chemicals that it does not know what it is, it's like that is a bigger threat. I'm going to let the sugar in the fat go by while I deal this unknown threat and what happens though, even though the person is consuming less sugar or fat, what they are consuming is being stored because it's getting through, so it accumulating.

So we were seeing much more fatty liver disease with people that were drinking diet soda. And most people thought it was bananas when I was saying this. A study just came out that Dr. Gareth found, which I'll send you as well, and in this is a big study. You have a 38% higher chance of getting type 2 diabetes, drinking Diet Soda than regular. And that could be the healthy habit that people think they have. Oh, it's saying diet. Yeah, because it says diet because there's no sugar. That's the thing.

People think this is my healthy swap. Not so much. And they took 10 of them. Yeah. So that is a huge, so your diabetes risk is exploding and you're storing more fat. You're actually putting more weight on and your putting chemicals into the body. A good rule of thumb and not to be crass but you need to hit people with it, if it says fat free, diet or light, just think chemical shit storm. and avoid anything as it, yeah. Boom, bike drop. Love it. Okay, last one is one alcohol rule that is realistic and protective.

I think I know what it is, but you talked about it a minute ago. So if you do drink alcohol. If you choose, if just can't let it go right now. Yeah, or you drink it in moderation. Like I come from a wine culture, so drinking wine is important with the family. You know, drink a lot of water at the same time. 100%. Very important. Don't mix it with certain pharmaceuticals. don't drink too much of it And key is, if you do have spirits, for instance, and somebody just really wants spirits. The healthiest way to do it is to have a four or five times distilled vodka or a high level tequila with soda water and some lemon.

But the worst is when you take a cheap vodka and you put it in Red Bull or Diet Soda. A Diet soda and a Jack Daniels is an explosion of bad things. yeah so the cleanest to do is like a you know a clean vodka soda and some lemon have one and always have a drink of water a good rule is this is also good for habit because if you drink a glass of Water for every drink you have you get full quicker so you don't drink as much so if You've got a problem with your on off switch chug a pint of And you know, you won't say this, but I will.

Have this at home and have one of these with a glass of water before bed. You will feel much better in the morning. Or if you have a low tolerance, if take it before, your liver's functioning so well that you break alcohol down quicker so you don't get as drunk. So if got to go maybe a business function and you're like, I gotta have some drinks, social awkwardness, or maybe I'm East Asian and I don' break down alcohol quick. take it before and you mitigate the damage and it's broken down and got rid of quickly.

Love it. If not, take afterwards. I take is afterwards, as I say, in the words of Hemingway, I drink to make other people more interesting. And it is how I deal with my own social anxiety is I have like a drink just to kind of like relax and then I always drink water though. Yeah. This has been a great conversation. That was fun. And we got some sun. We got it all done. This is great. Where do people find you? Where did they find deliverance? We have a offer for the audience. Yes, I'll put together a discount code for your audience so they get something, because I know you've got an amazing audience and we're friends, so I will give you a discount code, but loveyourliver.com.

So just think, love your liver, which we all need to be doing, just dot com. I think we have a page. It's loveyourl liver dot come forward slash nat. Okay, perfect. Forward slash Nat will get you to the page, you'll get a beautiful discount, and it actually even does stack. Last time I looked, it stacked on top of the subscription. Yeah, so you get that on top. So subscription, you can get 10% off. You get another 10 percent off of your subscription. And so that knocks 20 off it as well. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing.

Siggy, thank you so much. Also on social media. There it is, Deliverance Under. It's a beautiful page, actually. I encourage you guys to check it out. Cassandra manages it, too, and I hope I didn't botch the name. We'll put it in the show notes. If you're listening to this and you go and it doesn't work, it's okay. Just go to the Show Notes. You got you. Thank you so much, Siggy. This has been amazing.