Full Transcript Introduction to Marion McRae 0:00 You said various things and they gave me goosebumps. 0:03 That brings this different level of compassion. 0:06 To experience emotions and to invite them to move through our body, we need to feel them. 0:12 I didn't learn them from within my profession. 0:22 Hello and welcome to Root to Rise. 0:25 My name is Dr. 0:26 Emily Spickle, your host, and today we have a incredible episode where we will be joined by Marion McRae. 0:34 And we are going to take an exploration into your body and possibly some of those musculoskeletal conditions, including low back pain and how their origin 0:45 may actually be rooted in your emotions and your perception of safety. 0:52 Now, Marion McRae, she is a physiotherapist and founder of Movement Solutions, internationally recognized movement educator who was based out of Western Australia. 1:04 Marion blends neuroscience, facial dynamics, and postural neurology to create an integrative approach that goes far beyond a traditional rehab approach. 1:17 Marion's work challenges us to look at movement and healing through a new perspective. 1:23 One that addresses not only the body, but also the mind, your emotion, and a topic that I'm very fascinated in is your past trauma. 1:34 Marion has explored the role of psychedelics such as MDMA, psilocybin in trauma release and the impact of hypervigilance on learning and importance of 1:46 preparing safety, structural protocols, and emotional healing. 1:51 Welcome, Marion. 1:52 Thank you so much for being a guest on Roots Arise. 1:55 Oh, my pleasure, Dr. 1:57 Emily. 1:57 Thank you for having me. 1:58 I've been a big fan of your work for a while. 2:01 So this is lovely to finally have a chat. 2:04 Yes. 2:04 This is such a fascinating topic to me, I just feel like the world is bringing professionals such as you to my space, into my world, 2:14 to really open up the conversation of emotion, safety, how our physical body actually holds on to trauma. 2:24 So can you just start by setting the tone and sharing some of your thoughts around that and how impactful emotional past trauma is on our Yeah I definitely 2:35 want to I might start with just pre-trauma or just everyday muscular conditions, musculoskeletal conditions that I see in practice. 2:46 As you know back pain is my specialty I guess because I See the impact of emotions become a big deal with any chronic condition and I've been a clinician
Pain, Beliefs, and the Brain 3:00 now for 30 years and I spent probably the first 10 years. 3:06 getting fairly substandard results because I was working with a model that just did not, well, it worked occasionally, but I would quickly see people come back. 3:19 And I got very dissatisfied professionally because, I knew a lot, But I wasn't actually really having an impact on people or certainly wasn' t having the 3:29 impact I wanted to have. 3:31 So, you know, I think that's when you have to start looking outside of your profession and you go on a journey of exploring other thoughts, 3:38 other bodies of science, and yeah, eventually I've really come to understand that We treat our physical bodies, we treat the biology and we do that really well. 3:50 But as we both know, We are so much more than our physically body. 3:56 We have thoughts running through our head, which trigger emotions that we feel. 4:02 And I find it so funny that we just end up treating the biology knowing that all this is going on. 4:09 And yet we tend to segment people and say, go talk to the psychologist if you're having thoughts that don't serve you or if your stuck in an emotional rut, 4:19 here's a pill. 4:20 There's so much more to it. 4:23 Particularly with chronic pain, we know neurologically that pain is an output. 4:30 So it's a decision made in the neocortex about the sensory information coming in, about whether we feel safe or about, whether this sensation is a threat. 4:43 And if it is determined that it s a thread, it' s pain. 4:49 The things that helps the brain determine, and you know all this, is, you know, the sensations get run via the thalamus, 4:59 which is about our beliefs. 5:01 And then it gets run by the amygdala, about the limbic system and our emotions. 5:07 Then there's the role of the hippocampus in our memory. 5:11 And finally, there's the actual noxious stimulus, which is the, you know, the traditional pathway of pain that we're familiar with. 5:19 But there are three prime filters, our beliefs, memories and our emotions that affect how the brain labels that input. 5:30 and we are treating one of those four traditionally which is to me why we're getting 25% efficacy with back pain when we could be getting you know let's 5:43 pitch for 75 and 80 if we just throw in some attention to people's beliefs and mindsets and their memories and they're emotions. 5:51 Yeah so it's that's fascinating that my The beginning of my journey into looking a little bit deeper into emotion and trauma and beliefs, 6:03 you take it much, much further than I do, which is completely fascinating. 6:08 And I can't wait to delve into your work more, was in chronic patients. 6:12 That I was seeing that I getting a lot of chronic neuritis, chronic neuralges, and chronic movement disorders. 6:20 There's a complexity in that presentation when a patient has a chronic condition, right? 6:28 They just, they come with a different weight into the room. 6:32 So I find that really, really fascinating. 6:35 For the listeners to kind of grasp this a little bit more, how does that look when you see a person? 6:42 How do you start to establish perhaps this concept of safety or the deeper exploration of beliefs which can be a little bit vulnerable and maybe not every 6:57 patient is ready to do that. 6:59 That's a really great question. 7:01 You know, from a clinician, you wouldn't ask that question if you hadn't had that experience. 7:09 And I would say, I've had to a lot of internal personal development and additional training in relational skills trauma and in the psychedelic assisted therapy. 7:24 I've had to develop my ability to attune and to hear beneath the language. 7:33 Well, basically in a 45 minute consultation, let's say. 7:37 You know, the questioning will be different. 7:39 It's I'm interested in pain, I do the normal standard assessment, but I am also interested what their beliefs are about this pain? 7:48 Do you feel it can get better?
Assessing Safety and Patient Beliefs 7:50 do you don't feel that can't get? 7:52 What could be the barriers to you getting better and you know that's when you get a lot of dumping I guess of beliefs that have been acquired largely I 8:04 hate to say it from health professionals who have almost cemented in this patient you know, just that if it's a disc it is going to take twice as long, 8:13 if its degeneration it can't possibly heal. 8:16 There is a lot of beliefs that are passed on that, actually if we pause and question, we all have examples of patients that have all these things but have 8:28 no pain. 8:28 So we know there is more to the clinical picture. 8:32 I will listen to language, I'm interested in how they're feeling about the experience of their pain. 8:37 You know, how does this make you feel? 8:39 How is this impacting your relationships? 8:41 how's this impact in your finances? 8:45 What's the worst thing about being in this pain? 8:47 Can you do the sports you love? 8:49 what are your hobbies? 8:50 I guess it's a different evaluation beyond the standard. 8:56 Can bend? 8:57 can you straighten? 9:00 It's even just asking someone about their experience of what's going on, allows them a sense, a form of being seen and being heard and validated. 9:13 I was just going to say that. 9:15 That brings this different level of compassion. 9:19 that if I was your patient or clients in this experience, I would feel seen and heard and validated, which is really, really powerful. 9:30 So if let's say someone is starting to share those beliefs with you, how do you start to navigate that? 9:37 Like I'm just very fascinated and I know the listeners are going to be so intrigued with this unique approach that you take with your clients and patients. 9:47 There's quite a few techniques. 9:49 One is, you know, have a belief sheet, for instance, that has, 20 beliefs about back pain. 9:57 And then we go on, well, where did we get that belief from? 10:02 Is it true? 10:03 You know, the work of Byron Katie is great at belief flipping. 10:09 So that hers tool is one that I use, it's you know when did we form this? 10:13 Is the opposite also true, can we find examples where for instance our body broke a bone and it healed? 10:21 So why is this experience any different? 10:24 It's about having the brain notice past experiences where it was able to heal and heal rapidly, that's one that comes to mind. 10:34 It's actually quite different for everyone, as you can appreciate. 10:40 Sometimes if their beliefs are rooted in childhood information that's been passed on from mum or dad, we might go there. 10:47 We may even do a little bit of a somatic experiencing of, when did we form this belief? 10:55 And we can ask the body directly and it will normally have a flashback to a memory of when it's picked up and accumulated this subconscious idea. 11:07 So my, I guess my I don't have a recipe, because the person's language and experience dictates which path we go through. 11:16 I think it's about having all the tools. 11:19 And then for the to have the biggest impact in the shortest possible time. 11:28 And sometimes I get that wrong. 11:30 Sometimes I take it longer than I'd like. 11:32 sometimes it's rapid. 11:34 I'm a work in progress as much as my patients are, but each patient teaches me something about how to get better at that. 11:44 That's what I love about being a clinician and working with people. 11:49 They're a puzzle. 11:50 Yeah. 11:51 Unwrap them layer by layer. 11:53 Yep. 11:54 I love puzzles. 11:54 And I loved being a detective. 11:57 So why do you specialize or focus on back pain specifically? 12:04 I guess it came from a personal experience. 12:07 My first husband had chronic pain and I think I spent 10 years bashing my head against a brick wall to I could hear his language. 12:17 I knew he was depressed. 12:19 It wasn't about his back. 12:21 it was about all the other shit that was going on for him and You know, he just wouldn't look at it. 12:27 And I did what every wife does. 12:29 I kind of, you know probably tried to force the issue too frequently too often and it created a real divide. 12:37 Um, and I saw what that did to our relationship and obviously, my family.
Back Pain, Trauma, and Personal Motivation 12:42 Yeah. 12:45 My family essentially split because we were living with someone in a chronic pain cycle and it wasn't fun, it was not healthy and I couldn't see it changing. 12:56 The upside is I learned a lot of skills in that time, because I was very invested in helping him shift that were actually working for my clients. 13:06 They weren't working with him, but they were working from my client. 13:10 So it set me up on this path of understanding when you live with someone and you can see that. 13:16 they're not happy and consequently they make choices and you know they are experiencing pain and they take the pills and the pill aren't really going to 13:29 change much apart from adding a lot of organ toxicity and it's just a spiral that's not pleasant to be around and yeah I think it triggered the lived experience 13:42 of living with someone in that state triggered my interest in it I guess But I saw it in practice a lot also. 13:50 So just frustrated me that as clinicians, we don't, well, certainly in my undergraduate training, that we didn't get taught about emotions. 13:59 We didn' get talked about mindset. 14:02 The biology part, great. 14:05 But yeah, all the biggest parts. 14:08 are missing and I know no matter how good I am as a clinician, if when I ask that question, do you believe you can get better from here? 14:18 And someone looks at me in the face and says, no, why would I proceed with anything until I've unpacked that and had them entertain the idea that perhaps 14:34 improvement was possible. 14:35 It's a big leap to go from no to, or maybe, maybe is great. 14:39 Let's start at maybe and let's track progress and lets cement it so that your brain can see progress. 14:46 These coaching skills, I guess, is what makes someone impactful as a therapist or not. 14:51 And I didn't learn them from within my profession. 14:54 I had to learn from outside and that's okay. 14:57 But I do think Undergraduate physios not knowing these things keeps people, a lot of people stuck in a pain cycle that they don't need to be in. 15:06 And hence why my mission is to, you know, educate, education, up-skill, because healing is really simple. 15:17 When we bring an acknowledgement that it's possible and that how you feel about it matters, And beyond the physio stuff, 15:26 the standard strength and conditioning, which is all good, you know, and the movement part is the missing part as well. 15:32 I see a lot of focus on strength in conditioning but not on quality movement. 15:39 And, so there's missing parts which I think is their message. 15:44 If you're not winning with your therapist, it could be that their lens is just a little bit narrow. 15:50 And if you open to some of these other ideas, you can rapidly progress. 15:56 For the listeners who are thinking, I wonder if that's me. 16:00 Is my knee pain linked towards some emotion or trauma, et cetera? 16:05 Would you say, again, for the listener to start to kind of clarify and understand their body, where when you have a presentation, 16:16 let's say knee pain, long standing foot pain back pain. 16:21 Order the imaging, x-ray, MRI, and it's read as, okay, maybe a little bit of structural changes, but nothing that is matching the level of pain that the 16:35 patient or individual is presenting with. 16:38 Is that kind of just for high level framework for the listeners where they could start to say, okay, maybe this is a little bit more of what Marion is 16:50 talking about, where it might be these emotion, belief, trauma? 16:53 Is out of way that you could starts to clarify that? 16:57 Yeah, and I love, it's got a lot easier over the years to have these conversations with clients because they're a little bit more now open to the idea 17:06 that emotions can become suppressed and embodied and typically emotions tend to become, suppressed in vulnerable tissue, 17:15 which kind of makes sense to me. 17:18 A simple process, a simple lead question that I would use is, look, we do have some science now about emotions and how they can become embodied in our
Exploring Emotions Through the Body 17:28 physical structure. 17:29 Are you interested in exploring your pain from that perspective? 17:33 And I need a buy-in because I guess... 17:38 Emotions are very scary for people. 17:41 I think particularly if there is a trauma background, the setting is super important. 17:48 It's not something you fly out with in a 30-minute consultation and then say, see you later, I've got another patient. 17:54 There needs to be a discussion about, you know, does this person feel safe exploring their emotions in this setting, within this environment? 18:04 And if my feeling is there's a lot there, then I'm not gonna do it in a typical standard clinic setting. 18:12 I have another way I would sort of navigate and deviate into that exploration. 18:19 We set it up as a separate experience, but if there is buy-in, And sometimes, even if there's not buy-in, I will invite them to become curious about the idea. 18:32 And, you know, in the safety of their own home, when no one's around, and they can have whatever emotional response they want to have, 18:39 oh, just say, look, why don't you just put your hands on the tissue? 18:43 There's something about light touch on injured body part that helps people connect. 18:51 And, you know, when you're in a safe space, feeling calm, just put your hands on the tissue and become curious about actually directly speaking to it. 19:02 Sounds weird, I know. 19:04 But, talk to the Tissue and say, Nee, what's going on? 19:11 Is there something I'm missing? 19:13 is there's something you trying to communicate to me? 19:16 and then shut up and just listen. 19:18 And I tell my clients, sometimes you'll get a real flash of insight that you know is real for you because of the emotional resonance that your feel. 19:33 There'll be an emotional experience of some description. 19:37 Some clients will get, oh, I don't know, it's something to do with... 19:42 It's like a logical thought and there's no emotion attached to it. 19:46 I kind of don' t put much... 19:50 That's almost like the mind bypassing the body doesn't want, it's a logical, It's like, the mine that you go going, blah, 19:57 to fulfill the answer. 19:59 If there's no emotion attached, you probably haven't hit the money and that's okay. 20:03 It may take repetition and practice and even just an opening to the idea, but essentially to experience and feel emotions and to invite them to move through 20:14 our body, we need to feel them. 20:17 And having courage to sit and feel, I think is one of the hardest, hardest skills I've ever tried to coach. 20:29 There's a fear of being overwhelmed and drowned in it. 20:32 I have experienced that myself. 20:35 And it really takes courage and but on the other side is freedom, release and you know a lot of the good stuff but getting into that space to be convinced 20:48 that this is actually going to make a difference in your body I honestly don't know if anyone can guarantee that I know it definitely helps And nobody 20:58 knows to what level, but I kind of think if you're stuck where you are and you looking for answers, what have you got to lose? 21:04 You know, you gonna feel shit maybe for 90 seconds. 21:08 Once I heard an emotion takes 90 second to move through if really go into it. 21:15 And that for me was such a safe thing to know because I thought, all right, worst case scenario, I'm going to feel awful and intense for 90 seconds. 21:24 Right. 21:24 And then I'll be on the other side. 21:27 I think there's a variance in that. 21:29 But there are lots of things we can equip people with to start to explore. 21:36 Yeah, no, absolutely. 21:37 And it can seem very overwhelming, but as I kind of keep exploring into trauma more and more, and trauma healing and somatics, 21:47 you have to feel it. 21:48 You cannot intellectualize it, I love to intellectualized everything. 21:53 which is not how you do it. 21:56 You have to literally feel it and it is so painful when you are feeling and releasing it, but you're absolutely right. 22:05 It is suffering when when are past that 90 seconds or that heaviness is and just trusting the process. 22:14 So I love the message that you're putting out there. 22:18 I am very fascinated, personally fascinated in how you got into psychedelics and how do you incorporate that into your practice. 22:28 Yeah, well, I definitely had developed lots of different tools over the years, you know, breath work, mindset restructuring, 22:37 belief exploration, emotional experiencing, all of it. 22:41 I had definitely a day, a really young client coming in, early 20s, super traumatized, and she had back pain and multiple pains in her body.
Psychedelics, Hypervigilance, and Nervous System Safety 22:58 And she was so agitated, so hyper vigilant, So wired that nothing I had. 23:10 was gonna work. 23:12 Even just laying on the floor and closing her eyes was out. 23:16 No eye closing was allowed. 23:18 Like in terms, she just couldn't do it. 23:19 She didn't feel safe in anything. 23:22 And it just made me realize that, and you know, then I saw another one. 23:27 You know similar, like I think I had a day of a few really wired patients and my reflection at the end of the day was like, 23:35 wow. 23:38 people are ramping up big time and I have a fear that the nervous system is going to get to a point where it literally can't hit parasympathetic for long 23:53 enough for any tools to be learned and that really scared me because if I can, if you don't have how do you bring yourself out of sympathetic back into parasympathetic? 24:05 And that's essentially, I was equipping people with tools that would help them access parisympathy, turn off sympathetic, 24:12 so that we could access all the healing benefits of being in that nervous system versus the other. 24:17 So that when I thought, wow, it's gonna get to a point where people are just not even gonna be able to consciously learn the skills needed. 24:28 And so then I... 24:29 Is that because of just modern society and how we are shifting? 24:36 Is why you think it's harder and harder for more people to get into that parasympathetic state for your tools to... 24:45 Look, I don't know, but I suspect it's to do with society, financial struggles, generational trauma plays a role. 24:57 The gadgets, everything's fast and furious. 25:02 Many people are no longer able to access stillness, even just being able be still. 25:08 So it is an escalation of life and its pace, Yeah, and I definitely think it's a bit like Gabor Mate says, a child born in today's society, 25:23 by the time they're 20, I think their chance of not being medicated is like 20%. It's like the environment we're living in and procreating in, 25:35 it like putting a seed in soil that's toxic. 25:39 Even if you come well adjusted, you're experiencing everything around you is pretty messed up. 25:45 How do you equip out your kids to get to 20 and be able to cope with all that? 25:51 It's a lot. 25:51 So I guess I felt like we needed something else and nature had something and indigenous cultures have been using these tools for years and the science 26:03 is there and I was just like wow let's you know this is very different to giving someone an antidepressant which helps them cope with the trauma doesn't 26:15 release it from the body it just helps him cope actually helps the body release it so that it can actually be free of it. 26:24 That's the biggest difference. 26:25 One is drawing from the buddy what needs to come out. 26:29 The other is just helping the Buddy coexist with what stays in. 26:32 And that those two things are very different. 26:37 So you guide patients through this and then that means that you've done them as well? 26:44 Yes, I've had psychedelic experiences for sure. 26:49 So at the moment in Australia I'm trained. 26:53 Legislation is there. 26:54 But at the moment, the actual practicing of the therapeutic protocol cannot happen without a psychiatrist and a medic and in a collaborative team approach. 27:07 So it's growing and hopefully soon it becomes more mainstream and people like me can work alongside other practitioners or even be referred to. 27:18 But you know, it is baby steps. 27:21 I'm a little bit impatient, Emily. 27:24 Healed up and ready before the mainstream jumps on board. 27:29 So even breath work, a psychedelic breathwork experience is possible for people. 27:35 They don't need the actual psychedelics. 27:37 There's a lot that comes out in one of those sessions. 27:40 But again, it needs to be done well. 27:42 It needs be safely. 27:43 People need to equipped to go on that journey. 27:46 And need be with people they trust in a setting that's safe. 27:50 Otherwise you'd get the full release and you also can actually add more trauma, which is really what we don't want. 28:00 No, absolutely not. 28:02 For the listeners, I love practical tips. 28:05 So if they're thinking of how do I start to incorporate an exploration in emotions, beliefs, how it affects my physical body, 28:19 are there certain practices that you recommend at home? 28:22 Are you a big believer in meditation? 28:25 Just how can people start explore it or integrate different practices into their day? 28:32 Yeah, well I'm a really big fan of Feldenkrais as a practice.
Movement Practices for Healing 28:39 It's not a cult for your listeners, it's a movement practice You know, things like Qigong, Tai Chi, I like Feldenkrais perhaps over those two because it's 28:50 laying on the ground usually. 28:51 And in that laying, we get dorsal vagus nerve, you know that it can cut the calming of that when you lay on something solid. 29:02 But my experience was I was very scientific, very logical, and very mental. 29:10 I'm not the only one. 29:12 There's a lot of us out there and I had and being an athlete as well, I didn't want to feel any sensations in my body because the more I could push through 29:21 and dampen those, the More I Could push into pain and achieve. 29:26 So my relationship with my own internal space was pretty, pretty bad. 29:32 And this is what I'm saying about once, if we've been that and we can come full throttle in the other direction, I definitely think it helps us teach people 29:40 the experience better than having it as a logical thought construct. 29:45 So Feldenkrais for me was the introduction to sensing and feeling in my own body. 29:51 And I love the way it does it because practically it asks a question and then the body goes looking for the answer. 29:59 And in that, you come into your body. 30:02 You literally drop out of your head and you, come in to your, body noticing and building that ability or intraceptive ability is, 30:12 is a neuroplastic part of, your brain that you can develop and Once you have that connection to sense and feel, you can be guided by it. 30:21 If you cannot feel it, You have no guidance. 30:24 It is a very externally orientated decision making process. 30:30 So yes, it is trainable and one of the simplest ways would be get on YouTube, Google Feldenkrais 4 neck pain, back pain knee pain. 30:39 Do a 10 minute video. 30:40 I like it because it's safe. 30:42 You never push in Felde and Christ into anything that hurts. 30:47 And I think it's a very safe place for people to, through movement, start to connect with their internal senses. 30:54 And the upside is that they're also expanding their motor cortex. 30:57 So they learn to sort of move in new ways, which will take them out of their default way of bashing into pain, Yep. 31:06 I love that. 31:07 So Feldenkraisen, you can find videos specific to, like you said, different regions of the body where some people may have chronic pain or presentations. 31:16 Um, I'm sure you're a fan of doing breath work at home, meditation. 31:21 Look, with breathwork I will say I am a little concerned by how many untrained practitioners are doing one day workshops without any screening for trauma? 31:33 And I've definitely had a few clients had their trauma amplified by breathwork experiences. 31:40 So I think breath work, even though if you know there's a lot in there, You can touch the surface and retreat. 31:49 I think that's another beautiful philosophy of Feldenkrais is that it's okay to build capacity into sensing and feeling. 31:59 We don't have to rip the bandaid and throw ourselves into a hot mess of emotions. 32:05 we can do it steadily, we could do safely and if we know we from threatening sensations in our body and then we have this trust to go and retreat, 32:17 go in retreat and building that capacity makes the whole journey so much nicer than just rip wood chip, here we are and it's too much too soon and we end 32:29 up triggering a lot of stuff that the experience just doesn't need to be that way. 32:34 It can be done a whole lot better. 32:36 Yeah, absolutely. 32:38 Meditation is great, but again, if you can't shut your eyes and be still, it's... 32:44 It's a long way in. 32:47 I like some of the brainwave, equi-sync brain wave training through sound, lulling the brand into that theta state. 32:54 So just listening to a music that actually, you just have to sit and listen to music. 32:59 You don't have calm your mind. 33:00 It almost puts the brine into the state, I think that's really good way to kind of bypass what's going on. 33:08 I love that. 33:09 So for the intellectuals out there, any books that you would recommend or mentors in the space, people who have inspired you in your work? 33:21 You know who I really think are doing great work and a shout out here to Lani and Brian at the Somatic Coaching Academy. 33:28 I think they do really good work with pain science and somatic therapy is getting also a lot of popularity lately.
Resources, Books, and Bulletproof Backs 33:40 But sensations based coaching is what they do. 33:42 They basically help people make sense of their emotions, A, start to feel them, and then B, Start to understand them. 33:51 Because if we don't have a understanding for what our sensations are trying to communicate to us, what's the point of feeling them? 33:59 You know, so yeah, they would be that they come to mind when you ask that question. 34:04 I like Gabor Mate's work with addiction. 34:08 knock out stellar work, the compassion he demonstrates for people, helping them understand why they have made the choices they had has all been about psyche 34:22 survival or nervous system safety. 34:24 You know, often I wonder how many of our choices are actually ours. 34:28 or driven by our nervous system. 34:31 It takes a lot of consciousness to override the default mechanism. 34:36 And without consciousness, we're all primary animals just reacting to stimuli. 34:41 So I really love his work as well. 34:45 Yeah. 34:45 His book, When the Body Says No, is fascinating, a fascinating read, which is kind of exemplified through your work, because we are talking about chronic 34:56 pain manifesting itself, or emotion and trauma manifusting itself in the physical body through chronic paint and your word. 35:04 So I find this so eye opening. 35:08 I really hope that it offers the listeners another avenue to explore and to know that what they've possibly been told is not the full story, 35:19 that there is more that they could be doing with their chronic pain, whether it's the lower back, knee, hip, all of that. 35:28 So if the listeners are interested in learning more about your specific approach or seeing you as a patient client, where could they learn more? 35:40 Yeah, so I have developed this method called the bulletproof backs method and essentially it's mindset, emotions, and then quality movement. 35:51 So, you know, I'm doing my best to become part of the solution rather than I did spend a few years there just bagging the system. 36:00 And I support, you know, just try your best to solve, to create something that you think is better than what's out there now, 36:07 which is where I've landed. 36:09 So YouTube, I have a channel, Bulletproof Backs on YouTube where a share mindset tips, emotional tips and movement tips. 36:18 There's the podcast where I interview back pain sufferers and practitioners who work with back pains sufferer. 36:25 But really I like talking to people who've been on the journey themselves and have come out the other side. 36:30 And when you do that, it's really lovely to see how different the experience is for everyone and how there is no recipe. 36:38 What works for someone won't work for someone else. 36:41 It's got to be almost driven by their internal intelligence. 36:45 So, you know, I like those chats because I think it gives people hope that, okay, there's a way through. 36:53 I've just got a kind of navigator and find it for myself. 36:56 Who's the people that can guide me on that? 36:59 Is it a mental thing holding me back? 37:01 Isn't I need to do some emotional release work? 37:03 Or is it that I just need connect with my left foot more, It could be a bit of both. 37:07 It can be very clearly which one, but unless it's looked at from the whole picture, I just see the outcomes are very poor for back pain. 37:16 And it is just simply because we are not taking that holistic approach. 37:20 So the website is www.bulletproofbacks.com and I have little mini courses on there. 37:30 You can apply for coaching on that. 37:32 I love it. 37:33 I'm definitely going to explore your work more. 37:36 And there were several times when you said various things and they gave me goosebumps because I feel that you are very much pushing the industry forward 37:46 and we need more professionals like you bringing really that holistic emotional belief, trauma, spiritual message to the physical body. 37:55 So thank you so much for sharing and for all your Thank you, Dr. 38:00 Emily, for your work. 38:02 As I said, it really it feeds so nicely into my model of understanding. 38:08 And if we all own a little bit and collaborate and share and link the pieces, then ultimately the collective gets far better health outcomes than traditionally 38:20 what we've had. 38:20 So thank you for the time. 38:22 Loved it. 38:22 Of course. 38:23 Thank you and thank you everyone for tuning in. 38:26 Definitely check out Marion's work. 38:28 And this is not the first episode where we spoke about emotions. 38:31 So clearly there is a theme that we are trying to get everyone more connected to the emotional and physical body. 38:38 I hope you enjoyed and remember all episodes are sponsored by Noboso. 38:43 You may learn more at nobosso.com. 38:45 Thank You so much.
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