Full Transcript Podcast Introduction and Episode Overview 0:00 CBD has specific effects on your central nervous system and your immune system. 0:05 I will say too that the Pico IV has CBD, CBG, CBGA, CBGB. 0:13 These are all different types of cannabinoids. 0:16 It has no THC and that's really good for a specific reason, but these cannabinoids are going to bind to the receptor sites that we have for the ones that 0:26 we make and they're going to regulate the same thing that our body is trying to regulate. 0:31 And in the case of people that are chronically ill, people that can't conceive children, or people that have headaches all the time, 0:36 or you name the number of problems, it will help regulate that system. 0:40 And where I really want to focus for the patients is on the immune system. 0:46 Your health is shaped by more than symptoms. 0:49 Through real stories and expert insights, we explore how your genetics, environment, and daily choices affect your wellbeing. 0:57 We uncover root causes and share practical tools to help you find the healing you need. 1:03 Welcome to the Forum Health Integrative Medicine Podcast. 1:08 Welcome back to the Forum Health Integrative Medicine podcast. 1:11 I am your host and coach, Amanda Grabeau. 1:15 Today's episode is a special one. 1:19 I had the chance to sit back, listen and learn as Dr. 1:23 Shilpa Saxena takes over the host seat and leads an incredible conversation with Dr. 1:30 Andrew Peterson about the first IVCBD therapy in the US. 1:38 It was a great conversation. 1:39 For those of you who do not know Dr. 1:42 Saxena, she is an internationally recognized speaker and expert in integrative and functional medicine. 1:49 She's also the chief medical officer here at Forum Health. 1:53 She is known for bridging evidence-based medicine with patient-centered care and helping patients navigate emerging therapies responsibly. 2:04 Honestly, this episode is incredibly informative and genuinely fun to listen to. 2:11 Dr. 2:12 Saxana interviews Dr. 2:13 Peterson about the groundbreaking therapy that's now available at participating form health locations, the first IV CBD therapy in the US known as the 2:25 PICO IV. 2:26 Together they break down the science behind this therapy, why it's different from oral CBD, and how it supports immune regulation, 2:34 inflammation, neurological health, pain, mood, recovery, and even longevity. 2:42 What I loved most about this conversation is how approachable yet deeply scientific it is. 2:48 Dr. 2:48 Peterson brings his real world experience working with complex and chronically ill patients, while Dr. 2:54 Saxana expertly connects the dots between immune dysfunction, inflammation, and whole person healing, making this episode that's just as valuable for patients 3:05 as it is for practitioners and probably one of my favorite episodes yet. 3:10 If you've ever wondered how cutting edge therapies make their way into integrative medicine or whether something like IV CBD could be right for you, 3:19 this episode delivers clarity, nuance and practical insight. 3:24 So with that, I'll turn it over to Dr. 3:27 Saxana as she leads this fascinating discussion with Dr. 3:30 Peterson on Pico IV therapy and why Form Health is excited to offer it as part of our commitment to innovation and patient-centered care. 3:40 Let's get started. 3:43 Hello, hello. 3:44 I am so excited to be here with my pal, Dr. 3:49 Andrew Peterson. 3:51 We are both reporting live after work. 3:55 So these are what two doctors look like after a whole day of patient care. 3:59 I'm sorry I was late for the roundtable.
What Pico IV Is and Why It Matters 4:04 Well, I wasn't able to attend because of a patient. 4:08 So we both had the same thing. 4:09 I'm sorry. 4:11 So all that to say, what I'm really excited about in this conversation is that we are a network that believes in providers learning from other providers 4:22 and sharing great ideas. 4:24 And one of the ideas that is relatively new and exciting in the functional medicine world is this Pico infusion. 4:35 Pico is called a picoinfusion because it uses very small particles of cannabinoids or CBD specifically. 4:47 And so it's just a fun name that really talks about the size of the molecule. 4:51 And Dr. 4:51 Peterson will help us understand why that is important. 4:55 But this picoinfusion being an IV sterile form of CBD not THC, which has implications for people who don't want to have THC in their system. 5:12 It has been shown to be quite beneficial for various conditions. 5:16 So let's start off, Dr. 5:17 Peterson, with maybe letting us know a little bit about why did you become interested in offering PICO for your patients? 5:28 Sure. 5:29 Well, because physicians work in networks, right? 5:33 A really good friend of mine, she's actually the immediate past president of ILADS, Amy Offit, called me one day and said, 5:40 you have got to do this for your Lyme patients. 5:42 Nothing has been more transformative in the last two years that I've done besides this. 5:46 And I said, well, if it's good enough for the president of ILADS who is an excellent doctor taking care of chronically ill patients. 5:52 It's good enough for me. 5:53 Let me try doing this. 5:54 And so that's what alerted me that there was something out there that was available that I was not using that could help chronically ill patients, 6:03 people with chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, myalgic encephalopathy, etc. 6:07 And I'd never really considered it for that patient group, right? 6:10 Cause we think of medical marijuana for people that have, I don't know, pain or anorexia or anxiety, depression, right? 6:21 I've had plenty of patients that will use oral CBD and I've never found it to be all that remarkable. 6:26 I've had patients that, you know, report negative side effects. 6:30 And so it just wasn't on my radar. 6:33 But that's the honest answer is a friend of mine who's a physician who I respect completely said this has made a difference for my patients. 6:42 And interestingly, that's the reason I'm starting it in my practice because you are a provider that I know and respect. 6:48 And that's what works. 6:49 But what I'm trying to imagine, here's a patient coming into your practice or any one of the practices in the Forum Health Network. 6:56 So let's just first maybe ask you, can you describe what an endocannabinoid is and what does CBD mean? 7:09 Right. 7:11 I try not to get too nerdy, but I also try to explain it well enough so that other scientists would say, I get it. 7:19 And ordinary people would say, I get it too. 7:21 We make some molecules, endocannabinoids, and they are regulating a particular pathway of communication in our body. 7:30 Now, the cannabinoid pathways that we have mostly function in the central nervous system and the immune system. 7:37 And we make an endocannabinoid called AEA and another one called 2AG. 7:43 And neither one of those is technically CBD, but CBD binds to the same exact receptor site. 7:50 I think this is interesting. 7:52 The AEA, it stands for anandamide. 7:55 Anandamide, ananda is the word for bliss. 7:59 So it is scientifically called the bliss molecule. 8:02 We make this. 8:03 This isn't coming from marijuana. 8:04 It's not coming from hemp. 8:06 It's coming from your own body saying, hey, I need to make enough of this so that I can regulate my brain and I can regulate my immune system. 8:14 So CBD, because it's an analog for this and it's found in a plant, that's no surprise. 8:18 There's lots of molecules that plants make that we make a similar one, right? 8:23 That's how herbal medicine works. 8:26 CBD has specific effects on your central nervous system and your immune system. 8:33 I will say too that the Pico IV has CBD, CBG, CBGA, CBGB. 8:42 These are all different types of cannabinoids. 8:45 It has no THC and that's really good for a specific reason, but these cannabinoids are going to bind to the receptor sites that we have for the ones that 8:57 we make and they're going to regulate the same thing that our body is trying to regulate. 9:02 And in the case of people that are chronically ill or people that can't conceive children or people that have headaches all the time or you name the number 9:09 of problems, it will help regulate that system. 9:12 And where I really want to focus for the patients is on the immune system. 9:17 I'll say this and maybe I'm going too deep again, but CB1 agonists are found in the brain and CB2 agonists are found in the immune system. 9:25 And our endocannabinoids regulate both. 9:29 But CBD has a much stronger receptor affinity for CB2 receptors, which means it has a much stronger affinity for the immune system and much less on the brain. 9:39 That's a good thing because for most of our patients' concerns, we're trying to help their immune system and not make them high. 9:48 Now, that's not to say that it doesn't have some CB1 activity. 9:52 It's just far, far less than THC has. 9:54 THC primarily acts on the CB1 receptor, or CBD primarily acts on the CB2 receptor. 10:02 I think that's important for people to understand. 10:03 Anybody that's concerned about THC or marijuana, or is this going to make me high? 10:08 Is this a recreational drug? 10:11 CBD has never been considered a recreational drug nor would it really fall into that category because it's helping your immune system. 10:18 It's not making you high. 10:19 What I'm hearing is, is that the reason that you like it is because it is a non recreational drug source of helping the immune system and the brain more immune. 10:33 I'm pointing, I shouldn't be pointing to my belly, but more immune over brain. 10:39 And that's why you can get with immune benefits. 10:43 benefits for inflammatory conditions or conditions that are stemming from an immune system that is either weak or confused. 10:55 So weak would be like people with chronic infections, like Lyme that you've mentioned, I would think people with mold, FDR,
Endocannabinoids, CBD, and Immune Regulation 11:04 all the autoimmune patients. 11:07 Most every autoimmune patient, I think in functional medicine, we believe there's some sort of little bug that you've got going on in your system that 11:15 could be triggering your immune system to be irritable and inflamed. 11:20 That's right. 11:22 So this could help autoimmune patients, but also people who are struggling to get over an infection, like a mold, a line. 11:32 I've seen chronic strep, chronic yeast. 11:35 Is there any other infections that come to mind that are missing for the people who might be listening, trying to figure out, 11:40 would this help me? 11:42 If it's a toxin, whether it's heavy metal or pesticide or mold, this'll help. 11:47 If it's a microbe, whether it's a bacteria or a virus or a fungus, this'll help. 11:51 Because whether it's a toxin or a microbe, it's gonna cause immune activation. 11:56 And that's good for, let's survive the acute problem, right? 12:00 If I get pneumonia, I want my immune system to kick into high gear. 12:03 But I want it to calm down relatively quickly because otherwise, if it doesn't, now I have autoimmunity. 12:08 So you could just think any bug or any toxin, this will help. 12:15 It's not panacea where it's just gonna cure everything. 12:18 You still have to fix the bug, get rid of the bug, clean up the toxin. 12:23 But in the meantime, if your immune system stays up regulated, you're gonna have more symptoms. 12:27 You're gonna have more headache, you're gonna have more brain fog, you're gonna have more pain, blah, blah, blah, right? 12:31 So it'll help the symptoms for sure in all of those cases. 12:35 Okay, so let's expound upon that. 12:37 So for people who are considering this Pico infusion, which is by the way an IV infusion. 12:46 It's there to regulate or at least normalize the immune system and help with symptoms from a dysfunctioning immune system. 12:57 But what you said, which is really important, is it's not gonna do all the cleanup of the bug or the toxin. 13:03 You may still have to couple it with taking a supplement or taking another IV. 13:09 Yeah, 100%. It's actually not cleaning those things up. 13:11 It's helping the immune system calm down. 13:13 In order for the immune system to stay calm, you're going to have to do the things necessary to clean up the toxin or clean up the bug. 13:20 Well, we could use long COVID, for example, right? 13:22 Long COVID is an immune response. 13:25 The virus is mostly not there anymore, but the immune response stays high. 13:30 Well, you probably don't have to do much else. 13:31 You already got rid of the virus. 13:32 Your immune system did it eight months ago, but you continue to have brain fog. 13:36 Well, maybe this is all you need. 13:37 Well, what about mold toxicity? 13:39 Well, you're living in a moldy house. 13:42 You got to clean up the mold toxins. 13:44 You can do this at the beginning. 13:45 You can do it in the middle. 13:46 You can do it at the end. 13:47 But if you don't remove the mold toxins, you're still going to have the problem and the Pico IV benefits are only going to be transient. 13:53 Right? 13:53 So the distinction there is, is the problem gone and the immune system still mad or is the problem there and the immune system's mad because it's still there? 14:01 Yeah. 14:02 So it says, is it going to be the complete therapy if the trigger is gone or is it going to be a temporary therapy because you still have to address the 14:11 root cause or the trigger of the immune system being off? 14:16 Okay. 14:16 Got it. 14:17 And to answer one question that you asked that I don't think I answered very well, you said, can you think of other things? 14:22 There are things that people identify as my problem is MCAS or my problem is SERS or my problem is POTS. 14:30 Well, those are actually just all names for immune dysfunction. 14:36 And so I want listeners who think, well, I have that. 14:38 Will it help that? 14:38 Yeah, absolutely. 14:40 But we'll still have to clean up the reason that your mind got started. 14:44 Let's look at categories, because I think you absolutely work in the world of chronic illness, which people who are in other foreign health practices may 14:53 not be familiar with that term. 14:54 So can you just kind of put if chronic illness is your term or chronic infections, can you just list the bugs, list the conditions that you commonly see, 15:03 and then we'll go into other categories so people know. 15:06 Sure. 15:07 So viral, if you have Epstein-Barr, if you have cytomegalovirus, if you have parvovirus, if you have a Coxsackie virus, if you have long COVID, 15:15 well, all of those will trigger immune dysfunction. 15:18 Bacterial, you're looking at things like Lyme and Bartonella and Babesia, Rickettsia, Anaplasma. 15:25 If you're looking at toxins, you're looking at pesticides and herbicides and heavy metals, molds. 15:34 And they get different names conventionally, like if a person has MCAS, that stands for mass cell activation syndrome, but something activated the mast cells. 15:42 It didn't just happen by bad luck. 15:44 And so then you go backwards and you say, well, what thing activated mast cells in me? 15:49 And then you find that it's a virus or it's in mold or it's something. 15:52 foods too. 15:53 Think about the number of people that are sensitive to gluten, right? 15:57 Well, they generally weren't born with a gluten sensitivity. 15:59 There are those people, they have celiac, but the people that just developed gluten sensitivity, well, this will help them too. 16:05 But you still have to fix the gut, right? 16:07 So in the in the throes of their situation, this will be really useful. 16:11 And then simultaneously you and your doctor, your health coach are working on fixing your gut health. 16:15 And now the inflammation that you experience when you eat gluten has gone down because you used Pico IV, but you still have to fix the problem. 16:25 of the gut permeability issue. 16:27 Does that answer your question? 16:28 Yeah, absolutely. 16:29 And one of the things that we talk about as providers is the connection between the gut, the brain, and the immune system. 16:35 It's a different Holy Trinity. 16:38 But those three systems are very interconnected. 16:45 When you help one system like the immune system, you will probably help the brain and or the gut. 16:52 So let's talk about when we help, when we use Pico, what kind of benefits are you seeing for people in the brain system department? 17:02 You said central nervous system. 17:03 I'm just going to call it brain here. 17:06 But, or maybe does it help nerve issues as well to nerve pain? 17:12 At Forum Health, we uncover the why behind your symptoms. 17:17 With advanced lab testing, hormone optimization, and cutting-edge therapies, we help you heal and perform your best. 17:25 And now, through shopforumhealth.com, you can access physician-grade supplements trusted by our providers, supporting everything from adrenal health to 17:36 focus and longevity. 17:38 Learn more at ForumHealth.com and explore supplements at ShopForumHealth.com. 17:45 Yes, yes. 17:47 I talked to a patient this morning, and she has a history of Lyme and mold, and she had excruciating pain in her upper extremities. 17:55 And nothing has been as powerful for her as this has. 17:59 And she's taken all sorts of things to try and treat this, from pain medications to turmeric to ketamine to black seed oil, 18:07 right? 18:08 She's done all sorts of things. 18:09 And Pico IV, she said the second one, her pain was gone on her arms, hasn't come back. 18:14 Wow. 18:15 Maybe it's worth understanding. 18:16 Well, that's because it reduced the cytokines that cause inflammation, right? 18:21 It reduced interferon gamma, it reduced IL-17, interleukin 4, right? 18:26 Those are the things it did. 18:27 It's not like it's magical at the level of the nerve. 18:31 It just reduces the things that cause inflammation and the inflammation was what was causing the neuropathy. 18:37 Okay. 18:37 Perfect. 18:40 pain conditions may benefit if this is the root cause of it. 18:44 Inflammation, immune, we should be looking at a Pico IV. 18:49 What about? 18:49 Pain, headaches, fatigue, those are symptoms more so than diseases, but they will improve for the vast majority of patients. 18:59 The sicker the patient, this is the caveat, Dr. 19:02 Saxena, the sicker the patient, the more complicated it is, and so you can't expect as dramatic results. 19:12 That's yeah, that's true with every therapy that you choose, right? 19:17 But the more times you do it, the more benefit we'll have because it continues to balance the immune system. 19:23 And the more you can push down the inflammatory signals and push up the anti-inflammatory signals, there's a part of your immune system called the T helper cells, 19:32 and they do that. 19:33 The more you do that, the better you feel. 19:35 So patients at my office, I'll have them do the first one. 19:38 And if they say it helped a bunch, I'm super excited. 19:41 If they say I didn't notice much, they shouldn't be discouraged. 19:45 they're probably gonna do three or four before I'll say, we have more work to do before we can get the immune system balanced. 19:51 All right, if you can't get the immune system balanced, well, that's probably because there's still a big problem. 19:57 So stop trying to treat the symptom and go back to the drawing board and look for the cause. 20:02 So, you know, if you're seeing benefit in the first infusion, that's a great sign. 20:10 But if it's it might take up to three or four before you notice a significant benefit. 20:17 And if after the fourth one, how much benefit would you expect after the fourth one? 20:22 Would you say that? 20:24 Again, it depends on how sick they are. 20:25 And I'll say this too, just to be fair to what's happening physiologically. 20:29 If you kept doing this weekly, eight times, 10 times in a row, you will get benefit. 20:34 There's almost no way that you couldn't because you can't lower these cytokines that cause inflammation without having a net benefit to the body with respect 20:44 to symptoms. 20:45 I'll use an example, and hopefully this doesn't derail us too much. 20:49 If you give a patient steroids, they're gonna feel better almost 100% of the time. 20:56 And that's because steroids actually turn off the production of these cytokines.
Clinical Uses for Chronic Illness and Inflammation 21:02 That's why steroids are immunosuppressive. 21:05 This is so much better and safer because it doesn't turn off the production of the cytokines, but it does lower them. 21:11 But you'll still make them, right? 21:13 And so if somebody just stayed on this, it will help them. 21:16 They will feel better, but you're not masking the problem. 21:20 If the pain doesn't resolve and stay gone, you know that something is still there. 21:24 So I think that's an important thing for patients to understand. 21:28 With steroids, you can cause the patient problems because now you've turned off the immune system. 21:33 Whatever the underlying cause is, like the Epstein-Barr or the Lyme, it could get worse. 21:38 or the gut inflammation, right? 21:39 The gut dysbiosis, it could get worse. 21:42 You can't make it worse with this because it's not blocking the production of these cytokines. 21:47 It's just turning down their effect. 21:51 And that's a great point. 21:52 That is a great point. 21:53 Safety. 21:55 you know if I remember reading it correctly this is pretty safe for everyone there is not really a major contraindication except if you have like severe 22:07 kidney disease if I remember correctly and I don't even know if that's I mean, yes, I think that's exactly right. 22:14 And anytime when they have severe kidney disease, we're just cautious because we're giving you an IV and your body is going to have to get rid of it. 22:20 So, you know, it's going to be more potent and harder to get rid of. 22:24 And we asked work of your kidney that, you know, maybe was too much for it. 22:29 Yeah, it's not related to the medicine itself. 22:31 No, not at all. 22:32 It's just related to your kidneys. 22:35 But it's not going to hurt your kidneys, it's just going to make your kidneys do some work and you'll have the CBD in your system longer. 22:43 Well, most of our patients aren't on dialysis, so all that to say it's safe for everyone. 22:51 In fact, there's research that shows it's used in children as well, too, is how safe it is because it's naturally occurring. 22:57 Well, I should say it's mimicking something that's naturally occurring in the body. 23:01 Well, it is actually naturally occurring. 23:03 It's just not the one that naturally occurs in us, right? 23:05 This is naturally occurring in plants, but there are dangerous things from plants, too. 23:10 Yes, that's right. 23:11 Okay, so we've just established that it's safe for everyone. 23:16 It's relatively, it's just an IV and it takes probably what 20 to 30 minutes to administer. 23:25 If you have a higher dose, it would take up to an hour maybe. 23:28 Yeah, and I have had two patients who complained that it burned and we had to turn down the rate at which they received it. 23:36 So it took a little longer, but that's unusual. 23:40 So yeah, it's usually 30 minutes. 23:42 Yeah. 23:43 So not overly time consuming as some infusions could be. 23:46 So we were talking about how it can help brain pain like headaches and brain issues that are like pain down into the body. 23:55 And then the other thing that I think is super related to brain inflammation is depression, anxiety, mood issues. 24:01 And I feel like there is a whole kind of demographic of people who don't have like depression anxiety to the point that they feel like they need a medication 24:12 or that they need to go see a psychiatrist. 24:14 But it's enough inflammation in the brain that if it were to be turned down, they would probably be happier, more productive, 24:22 you know, just better socially in relationships. 24:27 Have you seen people comment about that aspect Yeah, absolutely. 24:34 It definitely helps mood. 24:36 It actually directly helps mood because it increases GABA tone and it decreases glutamate. 24:43 So there's two neurotransmitter like reasons why you could say, oh, that's how it works. 24:49 When people take an antidepressant and they say, oh, I'm taking an SSRI and they, even if they're not doctors, they might put the names together and say 24:58 oh it's helping support my serotonin well this is directly helping support your GABA so it helps with mood in that respect helps with anxiety and this 25:07 sort of everything feels wired and glutamate is excitotoxic and everything works worse in your brain when you have glutamate so if you reduce glutamate 25:18 you're gonna feel better. 25:19 In fact, that's one of the things that ketamine does. 25:21 So anybody that's familiar with ketamine and says, oh yeah, that's used to save, that rescues people from suicidal ideation. 25:28 That's how, reduces glutamate. 25:30 Well, CBD reduces glutamate. 25:34 There's also a thing called microglial activation that causes inflammation in the brain and so it's helping with mood because when that goes down your 25:42 mood improves because now you can make the serotonin and the dopamine and that sort of thing. 25:46 But it also helps with headaches and it also helps with brain fog. 25:49 Because if the microglial activation goes down, now the inflammation in your head's gone. 25:55 It's like if you had inflammation in your knee and it went away, your knee would hurt less. 25:59 So essentially making your brain hurt less and work better. 26:04 Which I think probably is why Pico is used for people who are having like active symptoms, but it's also something that can be used for people who are 26:14 what are now called biohackers or longevity seekers. 26:17 You know, you don't have to be fully diseased to benefit from this. 26:21 You can actually be very functional and you want to be even more functional. 26:26 Yep. 26:27 And what do you think about that? 26:28 Well, I have another patient and, uh, we talked about that on the last week. 26:32 She, uh, she said, you know, since I've been using Pico IV, I know once every two or three weeks, I have never slept better in my entire life. 26:40 And I have more energy than I've ever had. 26:43 And she's not sick. 26:44 She's about as healthy a patient as I have. 26:47 But now if she feels like her day is gone from 24 hours to 26, because she sleeps better, sleeps more restfully and has more energy. 26:54 Great. 26:55 Good for her. 26:57 Yeah. 26:58 So it's amazing because a lot of people think you have to be, well, I'm not sick enough to need a Pico. 27:03 And I don't think that's the lens that we should be looking at it. 27:06 It really should be like, what are the things that interfere with you having a 10 out of 10 day? 27:12 Right. 27:13 And could this potentially help you? 27:15 And for me, like, you know, I physically feel generally well, you know, every now and then I sit cross legged too long. 27:22 And I definitely look a little bit like an older woman with me. 27:26 No, you don't look like an older woman ever. 27:31 But all that to say, you know, I can imagine that would be an interesting variable to look at. 27:37 If I did Pico, you know, I've, I've started to do these Pico infusions myself. 27:43 I think it's super exciting. 27:46 I think that as functional as I am, I would love to be. 27:50 less prone to musculoskeletal injuries when I work out, you know, if I use poor form, when I was trying to do the heavy strength training that's now required 28:00 of me. 28:00 I can imagine like, you know, I'm in a sandwich generation, Dr. 28:05 Peterson, where I'm taking care of my parents and my kids, and that's just a little bit of stress. 28:10 And that can throw me. 28:11 I'm looking forward to seeing how Pico is going to help me just be, for lack of a better word, the superwoman that I want to continue to be. 28:19 I think that's a fantastic application for it. 28:21 And while I don't see as many patients that are optimal health as I do chronic illness, there's no doubt that it works for those situations. 28:28 And when you work out and you want to recover faster, we know that there are things that help, right? 28:33 Like taking creatine is good for recovery. 28:35 Well, if we reduce your inflammation, if TH1, TH2 and TH17 go down and Treg cells go up, I guarantee you you're going to recover faster. 28:43 So if you want to be the world's greatest triathlete, this will help you, right? 28:48 There's just, here's the thing, it sounds too good to be true because it sounds like it helps everything. 28:53 But the reason why that is accurate and actually reasonable is because it is mimicking almost perfectly a system in our body that exists for the express 29:07 reason of decreasing inflammation. 29:09 and it decreases inflammation in a perfectly safe way without causing your immune system to now be overly suppressed, right? 29:19 So your body's doing this and think about when we're young. 29:22 When we're really young, things work really well and so Probably your CBD, your endocannabinoid system when you're 12 works better than it does when you're 34 29:34 because by that time you've accumulated some toxins and microbes and stress and all this stuff that's making the world not work as good. 29:41 But there's really just no one where this wouldn't be of value. 29:47 So whether it's optimal health or chronic illness, it really is the lever that you can pull that says, hey, immune system is going to work better for the 29:54 next while. 29:56 Well, this is really great information. 29:57 So we talked about people with just obvious immune issues, whether it's bugs or auto-immunity that would benefit.
Brain, Mood, Pain, and Recovery Benefits 30:06 Then we talked about brain. 30:08 We talked about energy, pain, and also mood in that area. 30:15 The other thing that's super important to many people is inflammation as it relates to their metabolism and body composition. 30:24 things like that. 30:25 And I think there's some benefits with metabolism, if I remember correctly. 30:30 Have you seen... 30:32 So I've never used it for that. 30:33 It would make sense that there are. 30:35 We're seeing the same thing with GLP-1s, right? 30:37 Whereas we decrease inflammation, that's part of why they're valuable. 30:41 So I can't really speak to that from experience, but I have... 30:45 It makes sense. 30:47 And I think you've motivated me to give that a try and say, hey, let's see if this helps you too. 30:53 Inflammation, if you've been reading any blog posts or staying into this functional medicine, integrative medicine, longevity medicine news, 31:03 you know that inflammation equals aging. 31:07 And inflammation is not bad when you need it for survival, true survival, but for most modern people, We turn on inflammation for silly reasons and then 31:20 it stays on. 31:21 Silly reasons are toxins and microbes and stress and inactivity in a poor diet. 31:28 And so inflammation equals aging. 31:32 And so if you are looking for a mechanism that can help you bring back your youthfulness. 31:41 I think that's what I'm really learning from Dr. 31:43 Peterson is like, listen, you know, I'm in my 50s. 31:45 I don't expect things to work like when I was 21 with my reserves and resilience, but I am looking to maximize it as much as I can. 31:55 Because if we're interested in living a bigger life, if that just means I want to be able to hike with my kids when they pick the you know, 32:03 the more complex hike, then maybe this is something I should be looking at because inflammation equals aging. 32:08 And if I can turn that off consistently, then that means my quality of life, my quantity of life is theoretically going to improve because that's what 32:20 all the research shows is inflammation. 32:23 Reducing it is what life longevity goals are. 32:30 Yeah. 32:30 It'll be interesting to see as this is used more and more to say, wow, this is actually like many things. 32:36 It's actually improving longevity, not just improving symptoms. 32:40 I think that they will find that that's true. 32:43 Perfect. 32:43 Okay. 32:43 So let's wrap it up with just, you know, why wouldn't I just go to my, you know, corner CBD shop, which sells all kinds of CBDs and I could do it as a 32:54 gummy and make it fun. 32:54 Why would I do it like an IV and get a needle in me? 32:57 Right. 32:57 Yeah. 33:00 One explanation that you'll hear, and it's valid, but it's not much of the explanation, is that this has all of the cannabinoids that we need that are 33:10 beneficial for the CB2 receptors, the CBG, the CBD, the CBGA, the CBGB, right? 33:16 So it's got all of these kinds, and that's good. 33:18 There's truth that that is valuable. 33:22 But I would say, and there's also a truth, and I think this is worth understanding, that because it is, and this is why they called it PICO, 33:30 it is available. 33:33 in a hydrophilic form, it likes water rather than fat. 33:37 THC and CBD are lipophilic molecules and so they're going to gravitate towards the brain rather than the immune system because the immune system is floating 33:46 around in your circulation, right? 33:48 That's also true, but it's not the biggest reason. 33:50 The biggest reason is what's called first pass metabolism. 33:54 When you take it as a gummy or orally, you're going to have first pass metabolism and 80, 90% of it's going to be broken down. 34:02 And you only absorbed five to 8% of it because it was lipophilic. 34:06 And so you couldn't absorb that much of it to begin with because it wasn't the right kind of molecule. 34:10 What you did absorb, you broke down 80 to 90%. When you get this intravenously, there's no liver filtering of it, there's no breakdown of it, 34:19 there's no gut barrier modulation, like will we let this in? 34:23 So it doesn't matter how sick your gut is, this is getting in if you take an IV. 34:29 So that's the most important thing. 34:30 The second most important is that the place where most of the cytokine activation happens, and that's what causes the inflammation, 34:38 which causes the aging, it causes the symptoms, is in your vasculature. 34:42 It's your endothelium, right? 34:44 It's your microglial cells in your brain. 34:47 And so it's going to immediately bathe the places that have the inflammation without any difficulty being absorbed without any breakdown, 34:57 it's going to go immediately to those places. 35:00 It will have direct, immediate immune cell membrane interaction. 35:05 That's a mouthful for a lay person. 35:08 Even for a doctor, it's a mouthful. 35:10 Right away, it's going to react to the places in the cell that cause inflammation. 35:16 And so the benefits can be You'll notice the benefits before the IV is even 10% into your body, particularly if you're having what's called a cytokine flare. 35:28 And so for people that have migraine headaches, they have MCAS episodes, they ate a food and they know that when they eat gluten, 35:35 they're going to be exhausted for the next four days. 35:38 This can abort those type of experiences where oral CBD just won't touch that. 35:43 So I'm not saying oral CBD is worthless, but compared to this, it's probably a thousand times less effective. 35:51 Okay, great. 35:52 I was looking for that number. 35:53 I was thinking it would be good to do an exercise where we say 1,000 milligrams of oral against 1,000 milligrams, let's say,
Why IV Delivery Beats Oral CBD 36:00 of the PICO that you already said. 36:01 Well, the reason that I came up with that number, and I'm not great at arithmetic, but you have about 5% to 7% absorption of oral CBD because it's lipophilic. 36:11 And then on top of only absorbing 5% to 7%, you have 80% to 90% first pass metabolism. 36:15 So now, of the 5% you absorbed, you only have 10% of it left. 36:24 So maybe I should redo my numbers. 36:28 It's 200 times more effective than oral CBD. 36:31 Okay, it's definitely a lot more effective. 36:34 You'd have to take a lot of oral in order to equal and you still wouldn't get the kind of distribution effect. 36:41 Right. 36:42 The vascular distribution is just so important because that's where the inflammation is happening. 36:46 And, you know, it just occurred to me like heart disease patients, you know, it's your blood vessels that are inflamed. 36:53 And this could potentially be supportive of reducing inflammation at the level of the blood vessel because it'll look for that area as well. 37:02 Yeah. 37:03 Last thing I want to say, is there any last words you have? 37:06 And then I'm going to recap, not recap, but I'm going to just give a quick little story at the end. 37:11 I mean, I always like to just reassure patients that while everything we just said about how exciting this is is true, it's not the whole story. 37:21 You gotta do all the steps. 37:22 You still gotta fix your gut. 37:24 You still gotta treat the causes. 37:25 You still gotta say I love you more and thank you more, right? 37:28 All of those things are going to help you get and stay better. 37:31 So don't take this four times and say, I'm not cured of whatever it was. 37:36 That's not how true health works. 37:40 So do all the steps, but realize that this could work for you almost regardless of who you are and what you're trying to achieve. 37:47 Perfect. 37:48 We can't simplify things. 37:49 Things are rarely linear and healing, but this is something that would really support an accelerated process, whether it's the healing or it's the feeling 37:59 better so that you can heal yourself. 38:00 Or the longevity. 38:02 Yeah. 38:02 So my husband and I have started doing these because again, we were so excited to hear of the science and then also we're one of those little geeks that 38:12 likes to be the guinea pigs. 38:15 And interestingly, my husband wears an aura ring and while he was doing his first infusion, the aura ring detected that he was so relaxed that it asked him, 38:28 are you napping? 38:28 Which I think It's an amazing testament. 38:33 Yeah. 38:33 You know, what's interesting is that I've done two at this point. 38:37 And you know, there's a graded, you know, you start with the lower dose and then a medium dose and a higher dose is the general thing a provider might recommend. 38:44 So I've done the small dose and the medium dose now at this point. 38:48 And I do this thing at home. 38:51 I'm prone to musculoskeletal issues. 38:54 and fascia tightening and I do cupping. 38:57 And the way that I know that I might be inflamed or, you know, I've overdone my pushup kind of thing is, is that when I cup, 39:06 I look at the color of what's leftover and there's a lighter color or if it's red or if it's gone to full out purple at times. 39:16 then I know, okay, ooh, and what I've understood is that that's related to inflammation and toxicity. 39:21 So I have historically always had a color, because I try to work out and I probably do it as well as I can, but I'm doing my best, 39:29 and I get like a red usually. 39:31 I'm happy that I don't get a purple. 39:33 Well, I had a massage where she put tons of cups around my body, which I normally would look like a polka dotted person. 39:41 And I had zero color on me. 39:44 Wow. 39:46 From all of the cups around both of my shoulders, which I remember going, what good thing have I done? 39:53 I thought, oh, I'm working out better. 39:54 I'm using better form. 39:55 And it just occurred to me, the variable that's changed is I've had two picots and the massage therapist and I were both looking like,
Final Takeaways and Patient Experience 40:03 why don't you look like a big old polka dot fabric? 40:06 I don't know this because I'm a clinician and not a scientist, but I'll bet it's because you had so many fewer cytokines and because you had fewer cytokines, 40:14 like you directly lowered the thing that was causing the discoloration. 40:18 That's amazing. 40:19 Yeah. 40:20 So there you go. 40:21 Napping and polka dots. 40:22 That's what I want you to like remember. 40:26 That's great. 40:27 All right. 40:27 Thanks so much everybody for listening and I hope you guys take advantage of the opportunity to do Pico for yourself, for your own health and for the people 40:35 who love you. 40:37 Amen. 40:38 That is a wrap for today's episode of the Forum Health Integrative Medicine podcast. 40:43 I hope this conversation gave you a clear understanding of how therapies like PicoIV work, why immune irregulation and inflammation matter so deeply across 40:55 the body, and how integrative medicine approaches healing differently by supporting the systems underneath the symptoms. 41:02 A huge thank you to Dr. 41:03 Shilpa Saxena for stepping in as host and leading such a thoughtful, engaging discussion and to Dr. 41:11 Andrew Peterson for sharing his clinical experience and breaking down the science in a way that's both accessible and incredibly informative. 41:19 If today's episode sparked questions for you or if you're curious whether Pico IV therapy might be appropriate for you and your health journey, 41:28 reach out to your local form health clinic to learn more. 41:31 This therapy is now available at participating locations and our providers can help determine if it's a good fit for your individual needs. 41:38 If you found this episode helpful, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who may benefit from hearing it. 41:45 It truly helps us continue bringing these conversations to more people. 41:50 Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time on the Forum Health Integrative Medicine Podcast. 41:58 Thank you for joining us on the Forum Health Integrative Medicine podcast. 42:03 Each episode, we help you understand your health from every angle and inspire your lifelong wellness journey. 42:10 Follow the show, share it with someone who needs hope, leave a review, and take the next step toward feeling your best at forumhealth.com.
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