Certified PBT (Post Betrayal Transformation) Coach

Introduction to Debbie Silber 0:00

Welcome back folks. I'm so excited to have my good friend Doctor Debbie Silber with us. Now, Debbie is a holistic psychologist, a health mindset and personal development expert, and the author of the number one bestselling book, The Unshakable Woman Four Steps to Rebuilding Your Body, mind, and Life After a Life Crisis. She's got a PhD. She studied how we experienced betrayal, and it made, a lot of groundbreaking discoveries. She's been on Fox, CBS, Doctor Oz, Ted speaker. He's an award winning, speaker.

As a matter of fact, she's a great coach. I know that, known for a long time and, totally dedicated to helping people move past or to trap betrayals. Now, the coolest thing is that Debbie now has her own course on how to do the work she does. And since this event is all about people with certification courses and how we can all move health coaching forward, make it just the number one, choice for of health care. I'm just really proud to have Debbie here. So. Debbie, welcome. Why don't you, give us a little bit about your background, and then we'll get into some pretty good questions and back and forth, of course.

Well, thanks so much. And first of all, I mean, most importantly, I forgot to mention I'm an ftnd where I am modest about, you know, like. Yeah. And that's where it all started. So it's, I'm just thrilled to be here. Thank you so much. So, you know, you don't study something like betrayal unless you have to. And then I had to. Horrible betrayals that just sent me on that search for meaning. And and I know a lot of a lot of PhDs went into that because they wanted to, to solve some of their health mysteries.

And, and it's the same thing. So I needed to understand how the mind works, why people do what we do, they do, and how I could heal. So I enrolled in this PhD program in transpersonal psychology. And that's the psychology of transformation and human potential. And I know that wouldn't be what maybe a lot of people would do after a betrayal. But I guess for me it was sort of like, you know, it's time to put myself on my own to do list. And what do I need to learn here? And and it's it's my time. You know what it had always been about everybody else.

And I have four kids and six dogs and and a business, and I'm like, no, I have to do this for me anyway. So it was time to do the study. And so I studied betrayal. What holds us back and what helps us heal and what happens to us when the people closest to us lie, cheat and deceive. That study led to three groundbreaking discoveries.

Betrayal Research and Personal Background 2:37

And, and, you know, the well, and I'm happy to share what the discoveries were, but it was so exciting read that I just couldn't keep that to myself. I mean, I had been in business 28 years, but something like this, I was like, all right, you know, the world has to know. So, it just totally changed my business. And the good thing was, I took all the good stuff with me that I had been doing over the years, added this to it, and it just it just blew up. You know, we want to know what those discoveries were, of course.

And you can enlighten us. But I want to say that I'm very, very proud of you. You know, I, I know you went through a very hard time. And even when you just said that to me, now, this, you know, like, this is about betrayal and sort of like getting stabbed in the back, you know, and and I'm like, well, yeah, that's happened to me. But it's not a pleasant subject, ordinarily, but I think as health coaches, as professionals, we got to be ready to take on all comers, so to speak. I mean, you don't have to, but I think it's just such an incredibly important thing.

So you did a study when you were part of your PhD program, right. And tell us why did you involved? And then and then what were these discoveries? How did it not only what were they, but how did they come about? Yeah, sure. And, you know, it's so interesting, I would venture to say that the majority and I'm not saying just some, I'm saying the probably the majority of clients coming to, to see health coaches, especially PhDs, there's an unhealed betrayal at the root of it. Because think about this, you know, and really, I look at it like, I mean, besides maybe death of a child, I think betrayal is one of the most painful of the human experiences.

You know, we're never betrayed by people we don't know. These are the people were closest to. So when the people closest to us prove untrustworthy, who do we trust when the ones we run to and other people are causing harm are the ones causing the harm? Where do we go? And in my case, it was first. It was a family betrayal. And you know, these are the people that you lean on that you count on. And I thought I healed from that. And then it was my husband and, you know, rebuilding whether whatever you choose, you can and I've proven it.

You can rebuild from betrayal, whether you rebuild and move on. That's what I do with my family. Or you rebuild something entirely new with the person who hurt you. And that's what I did with my husband. So not only am I coming at this from studying it, you know, at the PhD level and doing the study on it, but living it and moving through it from that place of forgiving and moving on from a place of reconciliation. So, yeah, so, so very different. And what was so interesting was I had these study participants and I, I chose to do the kind of study, where it wasn't just you walking around with a clipboard and you sort of have people check off, you know, a thousand questions.

This was a really deep dive. And it was qualitative over quantitative. So smaller pool, much deeper because I wanted to know the lived experience. Like what was life like beforehand? What happened to them? What did it lead to and what did it lead to physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically and spiritually? And that's why we got so much great information. And so I'll tell you this, the discoveries, the first was and then I'll tell you what led to the first was that healing from betrayal is really different than healing from other life crises.

Death of a loved one, disease, natural disaster, like I had been through death of a loved one, I had peritonitis. I was in ICU for 11 days. You know, I know disease. Yeah, yeah. And that was that's it's a miracle I'm alive. But this felt different. And so I asked my study participants and I said, if you've been through something other than betrayal, does it feel different for you? Unanimously, they said it feels so different because betrayal is an attack to the self. You know, if you lose someone you love, you don't question their love.

You miss them. You mourn the loss. But with betrayal, you question your sanity. You question all of it. You know you're dealing with rejection, abandonment, confidence, worthiness, trust, belonging that all has to be rebuilt. So it needed its own name. That type of healing, you know. So so I originally originally I was studying post-traumatic growth, but I was like, this isn't just post-traumatic growth. This is post-traumatic growth. Plus rebuilding your self equals post betrayal transformation.

So healing from betrayal is now called post betrayal transformation. Yes. Fascinating. And, I know you worked really, really hard. And again, I don't know if this is being funny to me, but we always say health coaches are supposed to walk the talk, you know? But that doesn't mean go get betrayed or betray someone. You know, maybe the one thing with the one thing we can sort of do with the, you know, like, far as living and walking the talk, you know, like this one. You can spare me, Lord, you know, like. Yeah, yeah.

And I wouldn't like to be spared myself. But I'll tell you when you, when you come out of it. I don't know if there's anyone stronger because of what we do with it. So that was the that was the first discovery. The second. This was this was crazy. And this was that whether we stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime, and many of us do, if we're going to heal, we will move through five stages. And what's even more exciting is now we know physically, mentally and emotionally what happens at every stage.

And we know what it takes to move from one stage to the next. So all that means is now healing isn't just hopeful or possible. It's predictable. So I can look at someone, I can talk to them and know exactly what stage they're in and know what they need to do to systematically move to the next, the next, and the next year. So so that's really exciting. Well, you tell it. And then I was going to say so the first one was that it's different. The second one is that there's five stages of this thing.

And you can tell where people are at. And third 100%. Yeah. And then the third discovery was, you know, we've been taught time heals all wounds. It's not true. Not when it comes to betrayal. There's a collection of symptoms physical, mental and emotional, so common to betrayal. It's now called post betrayal syndrome. And you know, we have a quiz and assessment on the site to see to what extent people are struggling. And here's the thing. There's a question that reads, is there anything else you'd like to share?

And besides hearing about the physical, mental, emotional symptoms left

The Three Discoveries About Betrayal 9:23

in the wake of this type of trauma, people write things like, my betrayal happened 40 years ago, I can't trust again. My betrayal happened 35 years ago. I'm unwilling to go into another relationship. My betrayal happened 15 years ago. I feel gutted, And we know that it affects every area of life, and it only heals when we face it, feel it, heal it. And I'll show you how everybody can know if an unhealed betrayal is affecting them. You're ready in relationship to ask your question for so. So the third thing is kind of like time doesn't really heal this.

You have to know how to address it. And the third yeah, the third is called is, is that there is this post betrayal syndrome and it's real. And then when they're stuck like that, then one of the five stages then or you're going to talk about it. Okay. Yeah, I'm with their. Yeah. So they're still struggling in some way physically mentally emotionally. And I can even go through some of the symptoms. But you know you see it in relationships. So you'll see it where in one of two ways someone puts that big wall up with like, nope, you're not getting close to me again.

It's, you know, and sure, they're keeping out the bad guys, but they're keeping up the good guys too. And when I say betrayal, I don't just mean, you know, we think romantic. No, it's family. It's friends, it's coworker. It could be just someone you trusted. Yeah. That coach, your mentor. You know, someone who violated their role. Whatever it is. And we see it also when someone has repeat betrayals, the face is changed. But it's the same thing, you know? So here's where they haven't learned the profound lesson that betrayal was there to teach.

Like in my scenario, it was I had my first betrayal. I thought I learned, and then there was that second one. And here's how you know, the lesson was learned. I did something radically different. It was always about boundaries getting crossed and not putting my own needs seriously or whatever. And look at one of the first things I did was like, no way. And you get furious, you get angry. You make different types of decisions. And here I made such a different decision, I mean, at 50 to go back for a PhD, that was crazy, you know?

And I knew it was nuts and I knew how hard it was going to be. But that's what led to all of this. So unless you do something different, nothing different happens. So the best you can hope for is, you know, the more of the same we see it in, in, in health too, where someone goes to the most well-meaning doctors, coaches, healers, therapists to manage a stress related symptom illness, condition, disease, at the root of it is an unhealed betrayal. And we see it at work to two ways. Someone wants to be a team player, but they're so afraid the person they trusted the most proved untrustworthy, so they can't trust that pastor coworker.

They can't be a part of that collaborative group that they want to, or they want to ask for that razor promotion. But their confidence was shattered, so they don't have the confidence to ask. They're bitter and resentful instead, and that's the energy they're bringing to work with them every day. So it affects every area of life. It's amazing, really, how, when you mentioned the repeated betrayal, you know, and how does it work? I just the other day I was talking to a neighbor, and he was kind of just complaining about how his brother screwed him over.

You know, I said, well, that really sucks your brother. That must really feel bad, you know, like he's yours. He goes, oh, he's done it lots of times. But even three other times his brother. Yeah. I go, well, you know, like like there's a problem here. It's probably not just your brother, you know, like it's we gotta work on you, man. You know, and so that but it happens, right? It happens until and unless we learn that profound lesson. And when we do, we're different. You know what happens. And I see this also.

This is we tend to get stuck in it's out of the five stages. It's a stage three. And I see it all the time. That's where most people live. And and it's once we've figured out how to survive our experience, we feel like that's as good as it's getting. So now nothing's changed. We've survived it, but we're really not doing anything radically different. So our mind is still the same. Our thoughts are still the same. Our behaviors are still pretty much the same. Except maybe we have a big wall up. That's it.

But that doesn't mean we've healed. We just we just put a guard up. But we did not heal it. So what's the how do you get to that transformation part or, you know. Yeah. Well, the first thing is, yeah, you need to know where you are, because a lot of times I'll just mention the word betrayal and it throws people off. They don't even realize that. That's what this is like. For example, there was someone who interviewed me a while back and he said, you tell me. I really haven't experienced a betrayal like, you know what?

That's fine. And then as we're talking, all of a sudden he said, oh my gosh. Because, you know, because when I was my brother used to always break my toys that he's always just take my stuff and break it. And I got this great toy and he said, can I play with it? And I said, no, because you can break it. And he convinced me and I gave it to him. You know, a minute later he breaks the toy. He goes to, you know, on 36, I don't let anybody touch my stuff. Yeah, well, so here it is, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I get it.

We let it happen. So. So he's stuck in his days. Go through the stages first. Tell us what the stages are. Sure. So the first is like a this is like a set up stage. And and this is just what I saw with every single study participant, me included. If you imagine four legs of a table, the four legs are physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. What I saw with everybody was a real heavy lean on the physical and the mental and kind of neglecting the emotional and the spiritual. So what does that mean?

It means we're really good at thinking and doing, and we're not really paying much attention to the feeling and being. Now when it comes to betrayal, here's the problem. Our intuition is in the feeling. Being part. And we turned down our intuition because every study participant was like, You know, I thought something didn't seem right. So they felt off. But I didn't really pay attention to it. But if you imagine a table with only two legs strengthened, easy for that table to topple over. So that's sort of the setup.

That's not to say if you're busy, you're going to be betrayed. It's just what I saw with everybody. Stage two by far. Hands down the scariest stage. Here's the breakdown of the body, the mind, the world view. You've been rocked. This is day, discovery day. Here's where. Seriously, it's like the person you thought you knew so well. Takes a mask off and you're like, what? You. You had no idea. So the the body starts to break down and you know this. You know, you've ignited the stress response. You're headed for every single stress related symptom illness, condition, disease.

Your mind is in a complete state of chaos and overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around the information you just learned and your worldview is shattered. It's your mental model. This person's safe. These are the rules. And in a in an instant, everything you know has been shattered. So here's truly where the bottom bottoms out on you. And it's terrifying because a new bottom hasn't been constructed yet. You know, one of my study participants said, you know what it feels like? It feels like every negative emotion you can experience getting punched in the gut and losing a child in a crowd at the same time feels like that threatening.

But they could, you know. But if the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do? You would grab, hold of anything you could to stay safe and stay alive. And that's stage three. Survival instincts emerge. It's a very practical stage. If you can help me get out of my way, how will I survive this experience? Where will I live? Who can I trust? How do I feed myself? I mean, it's really entirely practical, but once we figure that out, we stay there. This is a very common place to get stuck because then and I want

Five Stages of Post-Betrayal Transformation 17:28

I would love it if everybody really just checks themself right here. You start getting these small self benefits from being here like this. You get to be right. It feels good to be right. Yeah. You get someone to blame. You get a you know you get a lot of sympathy from other people. You get pity, right? You get a story. And we love our story. You get to justify not doing something. Why? I can't do that. Look what I've been through. You don't have to do the hard work of learning to trust again, do I?

Judo? I just forget it. I just won't trust anybody. And then we start planting roots in this space and then think about it, you know, like, energy attracts, like, energy. Now we feel like we belong there. And then we start convincing ourselves, well, maybe we deserved it. Maybe, maybe, maybe, you know, and now we're stuck. And now it gets harder to leave. If we're willing to. The willingness is a huge. We're right here. If we're willing to let go of all of those benefits, if we're willing to grieve the loss because we have to grieve what no longer will be right, and then a few other things we can move to stage four.

Stage four is adjusting, finding, and adjusting to a new normal year old normal doesn't exist. It's no longer an option. So here's where it's like if you've ever moved to a new house, condo, office, apartment, whatever, you know your stuff isn't there yet. It's not quite cozy, but it's going to be okay. You're kind of turning down your stress response a little bit. You're not healing just yet, but you're not destroying your body the way you were. But here's what was so interesting about this. Stage two if you were to move from one place to the next, think about it.

You wouldn't necessarily bring everything with you, right? Things that don't represent who you want to be in that new space don't come along with you. And I saw so many relationships change here. Friendships change here. If your friends weren't there for you when you needed them, you don't bring them with you. If if your friends had like, you know, they were gossiping or judging whatever it was that you now have outgrown, you don't have the tolerance for it right here. So a lot of friendships change in this stage.

But you so you settle into this stage, you make it your own. And once you feel comfortable here, you're feeling good about it. You're like, okay, I can I can do this. I can make this work. You can slowly move into the fifth most beautiful stage. And this is healing, rebirth and a new worldview. Here your body starts to heal. You turn down the stress response. You didn't have the bandwidth to eat well, exercise. You weren't thinking about that. You were thinking about survival. Now you do. Now you have the bandwidth.

You want to nurture yourself. You want to take care of yourself, your mind, you. You now have a new set of beliefs, boundaries, rules based on what you've been through. And you have a new worldview based on how you see the world because of the road you've just been on and the four legs of that table. Remember, in the beginning, we were only focused on the physical and the mental. Now we're solidly grounded because we're paying attention to the emotional and the spiritual to those are the five stages.

That's remarkable, you know? And just as you speak, you know, I'm really, really listening. And, I see a lot of similarities in life, you know, health coaching, you know, and things that we might come across. Busy stage three, where, the person gets a benefit from that condition that they don't want. So unwanted conditions basically. Well, what's your main complaint? Well, I'm, I'm overweight. My, my digestive system. I've got fibromyalgia, you know, something like that. And then you find out all these reasons why they don't want it change.

Really? Because it just is totally working for them. You know, it's like they don't really have to work full time that, you know, they get to not make dinner with, you know, you know, whatever it is that they they did. And it's really an interesting thing, I guess, about healing that even applies to something like betrayal, which is a hell of a thing to heal from, you know. So you're saying that if you don't, you know, the mental and physical. Yeah. You know, we all kind of know to have a positive attitude and work on our bodies and things like that.

But if you don't deal with the emotional, the grief, the, other things you said about losing and the anger maybe, or whatever, if you if you don't process that thoroughly. Which takes I think the spiritual goes along with it, you know, having a sense of purpose and, and in reality, connecting to the source is kind of what I call. But, which is where the power comes from, I think. But, then you can never trust again or somebody saying like, that's because when you were talking about five ago, where's the trust going?

You know, how do you get that back? You know. Yeah, I love that. You said there are so many things I would many rows I'd love to go down with what you just said. First of all, the physical is so real. It's so real. And it's interesting because digestive complaints are one of the most common things we see. And here's what's so interesting. And I'll talk about trust too. In my book that's coming out is called trust again. So and the fourth step trust rebuilding process. Yeah. And and I can we can talk about that too.

But here's what's so interesting when you think about digestive issues. Well first of all think about the benefits. Yes. If someone you know, is is getting a lot of sympathy or they don't have to show up the same way, they get almost like they get a pass. Yeah, it could definitely use that in your favor. And it becomes their identity. And here's the thing. If that's become our identity, it's not just it isn't just something where we're dealing with, it becomes our identity. We don't let it go because we don't want to be without an identity.

So, you know, what we need to do is figure out who would we be without it? Because if we can't imagine that that symptom, that challenge, that story is going nowhere. But, you know, even just with digestive issues, this is what's so interesting when you think about what the digestive system does, it digests it, absorbs, it processes. Isn't it really difficult to absorb, digest, and process a betrayal? Yeah. So is it any one, the hard thing to swallow it. That's it. Right. Yeah. I should have put that in the book. Right.

So when you think about it, it's so easy to see how the body is just really reflecting what the you know, what the emotions with the, with the mind, what the hearts going through. So it makes total and complete sense. And the weight, you know, is such a common symptom. Two whether it's severe weight changes in either direction in the beginning, you know, you can't hold down food. And then maybe as a way to protect yourself, you put the weight on, whereas, you know, you're emotionally eating your way to as a way to self-soothe.

You know, when we're young, we hide behind mom's leg, right? Well, we're older, the weight can provide the same protection. So, so many different reasons why that, the, the issues, the symptoms benefit us. I mean, it's so it's so huge. Well, I just it and that's that addictive behaviors. You know, you talk about the soothing eating and what about, you know, this or this, you know, these different things. They're they're self-medicating. This is what people do when they're in any kind of pain, you know, or something's not normal.

They they reach for stuff. And, and I'll tell you, there were three groups in the study that didn't heal. That was one of the groups. It was the ones that were numbing, avoiding, distracting something that's too hard to fix or feel. And if they were, using things like food, drugs, alcohol, work, TV, keeping busy, reckless behavior, you know what it's like. Remember when when we were kids? And if someone said something we didn't want to hear, we would stick our fingers in our ears and we'd say, la la la la.

I don't hear you right? Yeah. When we do those things, it's like the adult version of that same game. Yeah, well, it's like, I don't want to hear you, you know? And that's and that's what we're doing. And it's, it's really the same thing. But those are all just their self-soothing techniques because this is so painful to face. But I'm going to give you an analogy, because this is going to show you exactly how this works. Everybody has most people, I should say everybody a messy room drawer. Let's take a garage, you know, and you think it's not vying for your attention, but it is.

And you do all you can to avoid it. And you think, well, no, no, no, it's okay. No it's not. You do everything you can to avoid it. Then there's that one day you're like, you know what? I'm going in and think about what happens. You bring in your garbage bags and it actually looks a lot worse at first because you're like, I'm gonna donate this. I'm going to toss that. I'm going to, you know, get rid of this. And it's a mess, but there's no turning back. Right? And then you donate, you toss, you fix whatever you have to do, and you put back what's left and think about what happens now.

Now you stand back with pride, and now you can enjoy the space because you've earned it. And the only reason why you could feel good about it is because you dove in and did the work. That's what healing from betrayal involves. And using those things like food, drugs, alcohol, whatever is like just avoiding it. And it doesn't go away. But when you dive in and do the work, you stand back with pride and you're like, look what I've been through. You know, look what I did. Yeah, it's just a it's just a great feeling.

You know, if you're going to overdo it on food, drugs and alcohol, you you better have a good reason. That's what I always. And, that's so cute. But, So. But now for everything you've said makes so much sense, and I. I don't mention any listener. Could argue with it, you know, it's like, wow, that really makes sense. They would want to look at their own lives and see if there's something that they're holding on to. They're, they're they're stuck in a stage or they're doing that, you know, self-medicating or something.

Because does betrayal play a part in it? But speaking just to health coaches now, how do they why do they need to know this? And, you know, how do you sort that out that that they might be dealing with someone with an undiscovered is there's such a thing as an unknown betrayal syndrome. Or what? When they if people just bury it, they just don't. They assume because it happened a long time ago, it's they're not carrying it with them. But it's not like that at all. It follows you around like a shadow.

So that's why it's. And we actually some of your health coaches read have become, have become certified because they see the majority or at least I'd say at at a minimum, 50% of their clients are struggling with health related symptoms, illness, condition, illnesses, conditions, disease because of an unhealed betrayal. So it just it just makes such sense. It really does. You know, I mean, when we look at, you know, because I teach so the stress model I read a night in 2001, what got me, really into the idea of stress is related to there was an article written it, and 50% of all diseases caused by stress, 80%

Symptoms, Self-Medicating, and Healing Work 28:38

of all doctor's visits could be related to something stressful. And I thought, well, I better study stress if I'm going to help people because it's such a it's ubiquitous. And so we get into all the various types. You know, I kind of specialize in the environmental stress because that was my background before with the, you know, the chemicals in the bio toxins, the, you know, the things your body makes that are toxic, that it might not be able to get rid of, of things. And of course, I worked at a complex, you know, some of the physical, the the pressure on nerves, you know, for musculoskeletal issues and imbalances and weakness and, things like that.

But the idea of mental, emotional, was never my, specialty because I'm, I just kind of wake up happy every day. And I think people with emotional problems are like, they let's be crazy. Yeah. Well, it's it's, you know, but I realize, you know, that's immature. And, you know, not it's, you know, I'm a bit of a Pollyanna, you know, so, so, so, I'm going to really, you know, emphasize that a bit that, you know, there's so many things to look at there. And one of them could be betrayal and probably referring to your course, of course.

And, but we got to get you on to do it with the gang to do some more, a little bit more of this. What to look for. Can you share with the audience, know what that might look like? What? Like, what are we looking for? Health coaches day tips? Or do you just let that, you know, if you say, well, gee, you know, are we are you talking about the physical symptoms that people would be walking around with physical, mental. Those come to us because they have health complaints. Usually it's something about the way they look or the way they feel.

I feel crappy, I'm tired or fatigued. I, you know, or an overweight, I get bad skin or, you know, it's something about the way they look or feel. Now we know not to just address that immediate thing. You can take pills. You can use lots of ways. You can patch them up and that's that's not our backyard. Our backyard is looking deep, refining it with, with the underlying causes and conditions and experiences have been. So what can a health coach I'm trying to get to where they they might be able to spot something and go, oh yeah.

No they're either going to if they do spot it, they're going to refer oh to one of your trained people or maybe desire to become when you're training people, what are some of those things that you would you do, you just put it on your questionnaire. Have you ever been betrayed or, you know, is it more like there's something some little common, you know, pattern that you see, like people just, you know, get better shows itself? Yeah. It shows itself so differently and it manifests so differently in different people.

Some will you'll see it in their habits. Like like someone who is numbing, avoiding, distracting. Why are they doing that? There's always a reason, you know. So it could be it could show up in that way. It could show up because, you know, here they are carrying around the extra weight. They have a digestive issue. They have, you know, they're just angry. They're they're blaming other people for like or that just for the types of relationships they have. So it's so it really is so widespread. It's such a that's what's so interesting about this whole topic.

It's Gigantor topic, but it seems so niched betrayal. Yeah. But it affects so many different things. So some, you know, somebody can come in to or just, you know, somebody could be meeting with someone by phone or zoom and really just within a series of questions. And I wouldn't suggest someone who isn't trained really going down that road. I mean, that's exactly what the training does. But what they'll find is if they trace back where that stress came from, like where it really came from, what, you know, why did they start eating that led to the weight.

Why did they start, you know, drinking that led to the drinking issue? Why do they have that digestive issue? When did it start? You know, this is through a series of questioning. And it's always if you trace it all the way, you trace it back to where it originated and you get people talking. And I also, you know, I love meeting people by by zoom because then I'm looking at them. Your phone leaves out an element that is that really doesn't capture it. I mean, yes, I'm paying attention to tone of voice, but when you see someone and you see how what you said just hit a nerve, and then it depends on the style of coach you are.

You know, I'm always I'm looking for that. And then I go right for it. You know, where it's like what just happened right there? And they'll say, what do you mean? And then, you know, when I asked you that, your face changed. You know, you look different. What happened? What did you what what did you just. Was it a memory was an experience, you know, so it's it's a different line of questioning. And everybody has their own style. You know, it's interesting. I'm a psychologist, but I'm a coach first.

And for me, I want to know what that story is. So we can we can do something with it and that person can heal. Yeah. It's it's just so fascinating. Well, I, you know, I really think that it be a fantastic certification. You know, I'd like to see if I was a health coach. I. And, you know. And so tell us a little bit more. I got a couple more questions for you. There's no tricks, but I got a couple things to ask you about because of the purpose of this, I don't just want people to, be exposed to a lot of different courses.

I want them to. I want to really uplift health coaching. I'm trying to, make it the number one choice for people who have something about the way they look or the way they feel. You know, as long as they don't have a medical condition, if it's something about the way you look at the way you feel that you want to change and you're willing to change it, get in touch with a really good professional, you know, interview a couple of higher professional health coach. And so we'll get to a couple of questions like that.

But just a little bit about your course. Like, we're going to put some links in the show notes and things like that so they can go and take a look. But like, how much time does it take? Is it modules? Is it is it all classroom time or is it recorded. You know like just tell us a little bit about it. Sure. Well, we've we've changed it because we're opening up this amazing membership community. So what the, what the training involves is, we walk you through the Betrayal to Break through program as, first of all, to clean up any of your own betrayals and, your this way you're accessing it from a membership perspective.

And it's six, seven modules, half hour each. And then and then it's the, the coach slash practitioner modules, which is the same. We're walking you through the five stages, but this time, as the coach or practitioner, with all of the assessments and all the handouts and everything that you're welcome just to use on your own, then a quiz and then a case study conversation with me. Once someone certified me, yes, they're welcome to add what we they've been doing is using it within their existing practices.

When our membership community opens, what we're doing is members two levels of membership, but our upgraded members, well, everybody has access to daily classes. Like if you were to go to gym, fitness studio, classes running all day, those are taught by our certified coaches. Okay. And the reason is so we can showcase them and there's exclusivity per category niche specialty modality. So let's say an FDA and comes in and they specialize also in one specific area. It's off the table for the other ones.

And I want that. So this way when there's we have a resource directory when someone is looking. Because the other thing is members get as part of their membership one session a month with a coach and we pay for those visits. We want them to just differentiate themselves so that people could say, oh, I loved that coach's class and I love what they taught.

How Health Coaches Can Identify Betrayal 36:38

I really want to work with them and we pay. Like I said, we pay for those sessions and then if they want to work with them additionally, that's fine. It just goes through our portal and we want coaches to blow up their businesses. So if they don't like marketing, I mean, my job is to fill the membership. They're they're the ones who are going to be teaching the classes and seeing the members. That's amazing. You know, I really like that. You make your, people walk the talk. You know, that's something that obviously that we do in the FDA.

And of course, everyone has to run the labs and face the truth and, you know, get to get to cracking on that stuff. You can't be a slacker and be a health coach. My opinion. So on that topic, what I want to ask you a couple questions just about, you know, raising the bar on health coaching is fine. If someone wants to take my course or your course, I'm sure to work on themselves and maybe their family. And I would call them, a hobbyist, you know? But hobbies cost you money like mine. I know cost me money, motorcycling and gardening.

And I just love to go spend money, at, at the nursery, you know, on new plants and things. And it doesn't really matter how much, but hobbies cost you money, professions, they make you money. So speaking out of this as a profession and kind of thing, you know, where we want to we want to raise it up and have it be a, where you can make a really good living doing it. What do you think we should be doing is, is, of course, you know, owners or, founders, to do that, to raise that bar, to provide the leadership and health coaching world.

Yeah. That's such a great question. Really. I have a few answers for that. I really think that you have to be the role model. I mean, you've said this, you have to, walk your walk, talk your talk. I mean, and not everybody who's who's, become certified through my firm. You know, not everybody has to be betrayed. But you, at the very least, have to understand it deeply. So maybe you maybe you were the betrayer. Maybe you, your best friend, was betrayed on some level. You have to understand it. And then you have to be that role model.

You know, I think it's really important to. There's no one size fits all here. And and I think any good health coach understands that someone's. Let's just take a weight issue. You know, one person may have a weight issue as a, as a way to protect themselves while the other has a weight issue. Because if they lose that weight, they're going to have to face the fact that that they're not in love with their partner anymore. You know? I mean, there's so many different things. So you have to understand that there's no one size fits all.

And then as far as the difference between a hobby and a business, I mean, you know, it's so interesting because I hear people say, oh, it's so great. I work from home, I'm in my pajamas, and I'm thinking, why are you doing that for, you know, like 9:00 Am, whatever. Your hours are dressed ready, make up, showered, whatever, show up, you know, be there, be the role. And and on those days, I mean that I'm not even talking anybody and I'm just in my office by myself. I treat it like a business. And and also depending on how you want to run it but block your time, schedule your days.

So maybe you have, Monday, Wednesday and Friday or client days and maybe Tuesday and Thursday or, or content and marketing days, you know, whatever structure works for you or if you're doing this around raising your family and and I get it, I at four kids. So how do you do this where you're, you're making the most use of your time. And be so careful that you're not just busy. You know that you're productive. Huge difference. So I would say take a look at how you're treating it. I think that's huge.

Yeah. And then as standard practices, this is been my question because I'm, we're developing like a code of ethics that coaches should have and kind of like, kind of like real estate agents, you know, they have they're highly regulated. So there's laws, but they have their own code of ethics, and some of it is just their behavior of being professional on time. If you notice, real estate agents always look good. They always have a shiny new car. I know your husband's a real estate agent. So so, you know, like, you get it.

You know, you look pretty darn good. I think health coaches could learn a little lesson from that. Sometimes they keep their standards up high, like you. And, you know, you look great and and, keep yourself and keep walking to talk to you. Important. Well, any others, you know, standard things, that would dignified the coach and, the field of health coaching. Yeah. I think most importantly is is really living it. You know, I remember years ago when I was, a personal trainer and nutritionist and there were days I didn't want to workout, you know, I didn't want to eat.

Well, it would have been, you know, much easier not to. And it's so interesting because knowing that I had a show up, it kept me doing the work. And it's so interesting because we find a lot of people are becoming certified in my certification. It's almost like a hack. It's like it's forcing them to do their own work, taking care of their betrayals. They can't afford to just slip down that slippery, painful slope because they're showing up for clients. So there's something about being a health coach.

And, and knowing the, you know, people are looking to you assuming that you have your health together to the best of your ability. And that's why you're doing this work and you're representing the work, you know, and it's and I see it in with the, you know, the post period transformation coaches that you know of course we're human and we you know, we have ups and downs like everybody, but we're forced to do the work. So we don't ever have to worry about that fraud complex. You know, everybody worries about, oh, they're going to find out I'm a fraud like, I never want to have to think about that.

So it's just easier if you live it. Yep. Yeah. There's a word for that fraud thing, was it?

Certification, Membership, and Professional Standards 42:38

It's, the imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome? Yeah. There's one for you. Yeah. So, No. And anything else that separates a professional from the from the hobbyist in your mind? You know, I'm thinking of, things like fees being business, like not being afraid to charge things like that. What else would you add to that, if anything, or talk about that? How do you you know. I that's huge. And I would say and I remember, you know, I've been in business a long time and it's interesting because so much of my income had to do with my level of confidence.

And it's huge. And when you, when you're charging, something to the point where you're getting resentful, you know, you have to take a look at that. And, and I look at it saying, you know, it's a great measure when I, when I see, well, I'll look at what other people are charging. I it's not to just compare, but it's just to get a sense of where's almost like where's my head? You know what? Where you know. And what I'll do is if I'm creating a program, let's say, and let's say I'm uncomfortable with the price, I will pack it with so much value until I say out loud, they've got to be crazy not to do this.

Yeah. And that's my measure. So. So I would say take a look at your fees, take a look at all of your expenses. You know, I mean, I'm like a personal development junkie, so I'm like, how do you like motorcycles and plants? I like personal development. So any there's a new program. I'm, like, shaking. Like, I can't wait to get it. But but take a look at what you're spending your money on and, and, you know what would be better? What would be, both serve you better. You know, how how can you help your business grow?

What support do you need? And I know, because we can do it all we do. But that doesn't mean that's in our best interest, because let's say we we hired a VA a couple hours a week, even if that let us, do more marketing or get out there more or be a more podcast or whatever. That's time well spent. So I would say take a look at where your time is being spent, take a look at where your money is being spent and like, be a little more ruthless with with what you say. Yes, you know, I have this thing to it.

It's it's yes and no confusion. And I think that we say yes to things that pull us away from what we could, what we'd benefit from doing. And because we do that, we say no to the things that bring us joy, passion and purpose. That's yes and no confusion. So I would say, get your yeses in those straight to and for sure. You know, you're just a fun person to talk to them. And, yeah. And to learn from and I know you're a great teacher, and I highly recommend your course and your certification for health coaches.

Last thing, is there any particular type of health coach or is it for, you know, is it the, a specialist or what? Yeah, we have two. Two. We divide it up into the, the post transformation, coach certification. You could become a certified coach or certified practitioner. A coach or a healer is on the coach track, and a practitioner is a therapist, doctor, psychologist, psychiatrist. It's the same exact training. Yeah, it's just a different logo we give you when you're done and, you know, a little bit of a difference in how much we pay.

But the training is the same, because whether you're a coach or, a therapist, you don't have this training, you don't know the five stages. You don't know what physically, mentally, emotionally happens at every stage. So training is exactly the same. Beautiful. Well, thanks so much. You've made this a better event. Just your mere presence here and the fact that you and I couldn't possibly have an event without you. Debbie, you know, on this stage, one of my faves. And so, yeah, we're going to, conclude and I want to tell the listeners to, that Debbie's notes and links and things will be in the show notes.

And so is the purchase button for this event. You want to buy these recordings and get them now, because once we're off the air, you won't be able to get it anymore. So thanks so much again, Debbie. We'll be talking again real soon. I'm sure. Thanks so much. You take care. Bye bye.