Full Transcript Introduction and Trudyu2019s Personal Anxiety Journey 0:00 Welcome, Trudy, 0:01 I am so glad that you agreed to be part of my MS and NeuroImmune Summit. 0:05 You have so much expertise on anxiety and that's a big issue for my tribe. 0:09 So what I'd like to have you do, Trudy, is introduce yourself, explain 0:13 why you became such an expert, and then we'll get into our interview. 0:17 Thanks, Doctor Wahls, for having me. 0:19 I'm really excited to be here. 0:20 I'm a nutritionist, 0:22 and I actually got into anxiety because of my own anxiety issues. 0:26 In my late 30s, 0:27 when my hormones were changing, I started to get increasingly anxious. 0:31 I ended up with panic attacks, which were terrifying. 0:35 I had no idea what was happening to me. 0:36 I thought I was dying, I developed social anxiety 0:40 and luckily, fortunately, I worked with a wonderful nurse 0:43 practitioner and naturopath and found this powerful connection 0:46 between what we put in our bodies and how we feel. 0:49 And I went back to school to become a nutritionist. 0:52 I was actually working in corporate America at the time. 0:55 I had burned out adrenals, I had gluten issues. 0:59 I discovered all of these issues that were contributing to my anxiety 1:03 at mercury lead toxicity and food sensitivities. 1:08 I wasn't eating, 1:09 I was actually eating a vegetarian diet at the moment, which was not good. 1:13 And I made some major dietary changes. 1:15 I added in some nutrients, specifically the amino acids, 1:19 which we're going to talk about today, 1:20 and I saw results, but it took quite a long time to get there. 1:24 And once I became a nutritionist, I knew I wanted to help people 1:27 find these, the solutions for their anxiety and panic attacks. 1:31 And that's why I wrote my book, 1:32 The Anti-anxiety Food Solution, to help people find solutions quicker. 1:36 And now my mission is to share this information about amino acids 1:41 and dietary approaches to eliminate anxiety symptoms. 1:45 And the end of the story was my panic attacks went away. 1:49 The social anxiety went away. 1:52 And now I'm able to do this work. 1:55 And there's nothing like 1:56 personal lived experience to really understand 2:01 just how powerful diet and lifestyle 2:04 and targeted supplements can be, 2:07 you know, instead. 2:08 Yeah, absolutely. 2:10 So let's let's talk about anxiety 2:13 and multiple sclerosis and other neuro immune conditions. 2:17 Do you know how common that is? 2:20 So certainly when it comes to multiple sclerosis 2:23 there there's growing research looking at the incidence and prevalence 2:28 of psychiatric disorders or psychiatric disorders, not just anxiety. 2:33 And there was a systematic review, I think it was published in about 2014. 2:37 And they looked at 118 studies. 2:40 And they said amongst population based studies, anxiety 2:44 would range between 21.9%, up to 35% in some cases. 2:50 And those who had multiple sclerosis and then that also looked at a depression 2:55 that was 23.7% and that also found 2:59 alcohol abuse, bipolar disorder and other substance abuse. 3:03 Also a little bit of psychosis, 4.3% but they did say that 3:07 the incidence of psychiatric co-morbidity remains understudied, 3:11 so it's not as well recognized as it needs to be. 3:15 But there is definitely, you know, a high prevalence of anxiety 3:19 and other psychiatric disorders when it comes to multiple sclerosis. 3:22 And we would assume 3:24 this, you know, could be applicable to other neuro immune conditions as well.
Anxiety in MS and Risks of Benzodiazepines 3:30 For those listening, 3:31 I want you to know that anxiety and depression are programs for Ms. 3:36 and neuro immune conditions. 3:37 So if you have anxiety or depression, you're much greater risk of developing Ms. 3:42 or other systemic autoimmune disease. 3:45 So they're certainly interconnected. 3:48 Now benzodiazepines are often 3:50 used for anxiety, and they're often used in the setting of Ms. 3:55 and her immune conditions. 3:57 And what are your thoughts about that. 3:59 So it's one of the areas that I educate a lot about 4:02 because as beneficial as they are, problems with this class of medication, 4:07 if someone's not familiar with this class, they typically prescribe 4:11 the anti-anxiety medications, even Valium, Xanax, 4:15 and they're prescribed for anxiety and insomnia, pain. 4:19 And then an Ms. 4:20 that was prescribed for spasticity issues. 4:24 And there's the you know, I pulled a study just a recent study 4:28 published in 2022, use of benzodiazepines and z drugs, 4:33 which are some of the sleep drugs in multiple sclerosis. 4:36 And they found that benzodiazepines are more commonly 4:39 used in people with multiple sclerosis than the general population. 4:44 And use is often chronic. 4:46 In other words, more than six months. 4:48 And they do also share, my concern and the fact is that 4:52 benzos are controversial due to adverse outcome health outcomes. 4:58 But they don't really how problematic they are in people with multiple sclerosis. 5:02 But based on what I know in the work that I do and those with anxiety, 5:05 is that any any use over two weeks is considered long term use. 5:10 I mean, should be prescribed short term. 5:12 Unfortunately they used for months, years. 5:15 And we get issues with dependance, which means you need 5:19 you need it more and more tolerance, meaning it's not working as well as that 5:23 it was working before. 5:25 And then a lot of people will have withdrawal issues 5:28 and then it can actually cause anxiety and insomnia. 5:31 And folks have maybe didn't have it. 5:32 So maybe it was prescribed for pain issues. 5:35 And then suddenly someone starts to get increasingly anxious or they get insomnia. 5:40 And it can also cause balance issues in all of the population. 5:44 So we know that's definitely going to be a problem in neuro immune conditions. 5:48 And I want to just share what I like to do is just share, you know, some feedback 5:52 from people who have been on benzos just to because I can't explain it. 5:56 I haven't been, you know, I haven't ever used a benzodiazepine. 5:59 But someone in my community actually said 6:02 I've been totally disabled by benzos for over three years. 6:05 I've been off the medications for just over 17, 6:08 and the impact of these medications made my anxiety for ever felt like a cakewalk. 6:13 So as she turned out, 6:15 she actually was prescribed it for dizziness and she was put on Xanax. 6:18 And then she started to feel anxious and added Zoloft. 6:21 And then she was on one antidepressant after another. 6:24 Then she was tapered with one benzodiazepine, 6:28 and then another one was used and she was given Ambien to sleep. 6:32 So this is what often happens. 6:33 You get into the cycle of all of these medications 6:36 and you know, so symptoms that she had at the moment 6:40 that she, contacted me was locked muscle muscles in her neck. 6:44 And Joel internal vibrations, headaches, jelly legs, 6:48 distorted vision, fireworks, teeth, feeling that they're going to fall out. 6:53 Cortisol rushes through her body. 6:55 So this is I have found that about a third of people 6:58 who are on benzodiazepines have this very, very, very difficult time. 7:02 Tapering is another third that have a hard time, but it's not as bad. 7:07 And then some people can get off quite easily. 7:10 The thing is, we don't know who is going to be affected by this. 7:14 And I want to just say also, Doctor Wahls, if someone is sharing this 7:17 and they are on benzodiazepines, don't stop cold turkey. 7:21 You never want to do that. 7:22 These medications need to be tapered very, very, very slowly. 7:26 And then I will have. 7:27 If someone contacts Neil works with me, I'll work in conjunction with, say, 7:31 their prescribing doctor. 7:32 Because as a nutritionist 7:33 I can never say, you know, for someone to stop the benzodiazepines. 7:37 But I like my clients to be nutritionally stable before they consider tapering. 7:43 So everything that we're going to talk about today, and addressing 7:46 all the underlying nutritional and biochemical impacts 7:50 on the anxiety, need to be addressed before considering a taper. 7:54 So you in the best possible place before tapering. 7:58 So I wanted to just put that out there. 7:59 It's quite scary sounding, but they are scary, medications. 8:04 And we just don't know who who's going to be affected this badly. 8:08 Yeah, I think we always want to be on the lowest, least toxic medications. 8:13 And anyone who's listening, 8:16 what? 8:16 All of these talks. 8:18 We don't want you stopping your drugs. 8:20 We want you optimizing your nutrition, your self-care, 8:24 and then monitoring very closely as you continue to thrive, 8:28 to transition to a lower 8:31 dose gradually, safely. 8:34 Why don't we talk a little bit about Gabba Gabba? 8:38 I mean, a butyric acid? 8:39 What is that magic molecule and why does it matter? 8:43 So I absolutely love the amino acids 8:46 because they have such a big impact on anxiety. 8:49 And what I didn't say 8:51 when I was talking about benzodiazepines is they are used to modulate 8:55 Gaba levels, gamma and main apertura acid, which is a calming neurotransmitter. 9:00 There's also an amino acid called Gaba, which is used to raise Gaba levels. 9:05 So it's used to raise the levels of, calming neurotransmitter. 9:10 What I find interesting is I use Gaba a lot. 9:13 That was when I was a baby girl. 9:14 It was the one amino acid that had a huge impact on my life, 9:18 and it eased my anxiety and panic attacks very quickly. 9:22 And I'll tell you in a second how we assess for low Gaba 9:25 and then how we use Gaba. 9:27 But I wanted to just tied back to M.S. 9:29 and your immune conditions because I fancy a very interesting paper 9:34 that was published in 2015 called reduced gamma amino acid concentration
GABA, Physical Anxiety, and Muscle Spasms 9:40 is associated with physical disability and progressive multiple sclerosis. 9:45 And I'm sure you know about this, Doctor Wahls. 9:48 But what they talk about is reduced cabin levels in the hippocampus. 9:53 They also talk about reduced Gaba levels in the sensory motor cortex of patients. 9:59 And they found that this was associated with increased motor impairment. 10:04 And they actually said changes in Gaba may be a marker of neurodegeneration. 10:09 And the study supports the idea that modulation of Gaba neurotransmission 10:14 may be an important target for neuro protection and multiple sclerosis. 10:19 Now, of course, I didn't mention the amino acid Gaba. 10:21 They just talking about Gaba and a lot of these studies, certainly 10:26 with multiple sclerosis, they're not saying, well, let's use Gaba 10:29 and I'd love to see some research are using Gaba, but 10:33 just based on my experience 10:36 using Gaba and the clinical feedback that I've seen, 10:40 this is something that we definitely want to be investigating in folks 10:44 with multiple sclerosis who have the low Gaba symptoms of physical anxiety. 10:49 So there's different types of anxiety with low Gaba. 10:52 It's physical physical tension and stiff and tense 10:56 muscles, stress eating or using wine to relax. 11:00 And what we will see with multiple sclerosis 11:03 specifically is balance issues, sensory issues. 11:06 You heard me mentioned the sensory motor connection there. 11:10 A lot of that research is actually done in autism. 11:12 So we do have research on using Gaba and other populations, just not in Ms. 11:18 at the moment, but some of the areas that we can see. 11:22 Gaba help, specifically when it comes to multiple sclerosis and other neuro 11:26 immune conditions, is the muscle spasms, the specificity, the voice spasms. 11:31 A lot of people with Ms. 11:32 have the the laryngitis, spasms and voice issues. 11:36 Difficulty swallowing. About a third of folks with Ms. 11:38 have difficulty swallowing and Gaba can ease the spasms very quickly. 11:44 And I've seen this in a lot of people in my population with M.S. 11:47 and without Ms. as well. 11:49 So it's very exciting. 11:51 And the wonderful thing about Gaba and the other amino acids is 11:54 you can get results very quickly. 11:56 So if someone, for example, is having that physical anxiety 12:00 and they're also having, laryngitis spasm, they can take a sublingual Gaba 12:06 and they can notice an improvement within five minutes. 12:09 It can get progressive progressively better over the next 30 minutes. 12:13 So that's how we know that Gaba is needed. 12:15 So what I do is I call the trial method. 12:18 I have people look at the symptoms, rate their symptoms on a scale of 1 to 10, 12:23 do a trial of a very low dose of Gaba. 12:26 This is the key thing here, Doctor 12:27 Wahls, is because a lot of people will go and buy Gaba in the store. 12:31 It says on their 507 50mg, 12:34 take 2 to 3 times a day, and that's often too much for most people. 12:38 I will start with 125mg of Gaba used. 12:41 Sublingual is going to get the best effects 12:43 and was going to give you those quick results. 12:45 And if you notice an improvement, that's a clue 12:48 that Gaba may be helpful for you. 12:52 And then we increase the dose over the course of the next week, 12:55 two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, so we can get those symptoms 12:59 from a ten out of ten or an 8 or 9 out of ten to a 2 or 3 out of ten. 13:05 Well, you know, 13:06 listening to this, I'm thinking about how common voice weakness, 13:10 difficulty swallowing, difficulty with poor coordination 13:14 of the tongue for chewing, swallowing, speaking. 13:18 Do you think Gaba would have, a role there? 13:21 I definitely seen it having a role in, the autism community 13:25 with those same issues. 13:26 And men, and adults as well. 13:29 So this is in children. 13:30 A lot of the research has been done in children with autism. 13:32 So I've seen it help in that area. 13:35 And then, in adults and adults, husband of someone in my community 13:40 that saw major improvements in balance and coordination. 13:44 So yes, definitely. 13:45 I think it would be. I haven't actually seen it help. 13:48 In someone with M.S., with the with what you describing. 13:51 But, based on the other clinical evidence, I would say yes, 13:56 I certainly it may be worth exploring if you have those issues. 14:00 Now, another interesting molecule is serotonin. 14:04 Do you have opinions about that molecule. 14:06 So serotonin we often associate low serotonin. 14:09 We often associate with depression. 14:11 And but we can also have a type of anxiety with low serotonin. 14:16 And compared to the low Gaba physical anxiety where you're feeling it 14:20 in your physical body with low serotonin, you're going to feel it in your head. 14:25 So you're going to have ruminating thoughts. 14:27 You're going to have worry. 14:29 You're going to have fears. 14:31 You may lie awake at night feeling worried, having OCD, 14:35 obsessive type behaviors or tendencies or thoughts. 14:39 The other symptoms that we see with low serotonin is PMS, 14:43 afternoon and evening cravings, rage and anger. 14:46 And then we also see pain. 14:48 So it's, there's a lot of research on low serotonin and TMJ, 14:53 which is the jaw issues. 14:54 And but overall pain can be associated 14:58 with low serotonin and certainly with Ms.. 15:01 Patients often antidepressants are prescribed for some of these symptoms 15:07 and also for certainly depression that we see in multiple sclerosis. 15:11 So definitely, a connection here and a benefit of 15:15 using the amino acid tryptophan or fab HTP. 15:19 But before I do, before I share a little bit more about how I use, either of those, 15:24 I just wanted to share another study, and this was published in 2021. 15:28 Altered plasma Metabolic Profiles 15:31 in Chinese Patients with multiple sclerosis. 15:34 And they observed a reduction in tyrosine Aso, leucine and tryptophan.
Serotonin, Tryptophan, and Mood Support 15:41 So that's showing us that there's definitely this low serotonin connection. 15:45 And that same paper that also talked about elevated levels of glutamate. 15:50 So we've got low Gaba elevated glutamate. 15:52 So we've got that Gaba connection as well. 15:55 But in the same way that we assess for low Gaba, 16:01 we do the same similar method for assessing for low serotonin. 16:04 So we look at those symptoms I've just described. 16:07 We read them on a scale of 1 to 10. 16:10 And then we do a trial of one of the amino acids 16:13 and typically start with tryptophan just because it's closer to being a food. 16:18 And their concern with fiber Http 16:20 is that it there is one study and I've seen it clinically. 16:23 It can cause some folks to be a little bit more wired. 16:26 And that can be because it can raise cortisol levels. 16:29 So I'll start with tryptophan. 16:31 But some people do better on fiber. 16:33 So it's a matter of trialing with tryptophan, 16:36 seeing if we can get that anxiety that worry, 16:40 those fears of panic attacks down, we can improve the sleep. 16:45 We can also maybe get some benefits for pain. 16:48 And and then if that doesn't work as we would expect, 16:51 then we would do a trial of five FTP. 16:53 And with tryptophan, the starting dose is 500mg for adults. 16:57 And with fiber Http the starting dose is 50mg also with adults. 17:02 And if we're working with children, then I will halve the dose 17:05 for like a 14 year old and then go go lower than that is actually a nice 100 17:11 milligram chewable tryptophan, which is really nice to use for kids. 17:15 And then also for folks that are very sensitive to something 17:18 that I have on all my questionnaires is how are you very sensitive to supplements? 17:22 And if someone is very sensitive, then we just be cautious 17:26 and we start start low and then build up slowly. 17:29 And the thing is, with Leslie returning is that you have this fear 17:32 and this worries a lot of people who have, who return and are very fearful 17:38 of introducing new supplements or making changes. 17:41 So often that is the first area we need to address before we address 17:45 some of these other areas. 17:46 Because of fear and this worry that something is going to happen to them 17:50 that, you know, addressing a low serotonin is very helpful to sometimes consider. 17:55 First, I do want to also just mention medication here 17:59 because there is a potential of serotonin syndrome using these amino acids. 18:05 If someone is currently on an SSRI selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, 18:10 there is actually it's a caution that we have. 18:14 And if someone is working with me and they are currently on an 18:17 SSRI, I will have them discuss with a doctor. 18:20 We'll switch the SSRI to the morning 18:23 and then use the amino acids in the afternoon and evening, 18:26 because that's when tryptophan and fab work. 18:28 The best afternoon and evening 18:30 when serotonin intake starts to take a little bit of a dip. 18:33 But I got to get the permission from the doctor 18:37 and then use the tryptophan 18:38 or the fiber https six hours away from the antidepressant. 18:42 Now, if someone's on multiple psychiatric medications, we don't even consider 18:46 tryptophan or five, and we just don't know what what could go wrong. 18:51 And then once, you know, a lot of people come to see me because I want to get off 18:55 the antidepressant. 18:56 And again, that would be done in conjunction with the prescribing doctor. 19:00 And a very, very, very slow taper once they are nutritionally sound. 19:04 But SSRI is, you know, commonly used in emails 19:08 for depression or anxiety, for nerve pain, for sleep. 19:11 And if we can use something like, you know, serotonin support 19:16 with tryptophan or five FDP, what we're doing is we addressing the root 19:20 cause of the problem 19:21 and we're topping up their levels so that they don't have those issues. 19:27 You talk 19:27 about, any amino acids for pain relief? 19:31 Yes. So and so Gaba helps a little bit with pain relief. 19:35 If there's at physical tension. 19:36 As I mentioned, tryptophan helps 19:38 with the pain relief as well if it's related to serotonin. 19:42 And then there's another amino acid that helps 19:46 with pain relief and that it supports endorphins. 19:49 It boosts endorphin labels. 19:51 And the amino acid is DPA d fennel alanine. 19:54 And it's different from DLP. 19:57 This one works specifically and only on the endorphins 20:01 can you repeat that again slowly. 20:03 D phenyl alanine I can spell it d 20:08 e n y l a 20:11 l a n and d phenyl alanine. 20:15 And for folks 20:16 who don't know what endorphins are, those are our body's endogenous opiates. 20:21 In other words, they are produced by the body. 20:24 And they help with pain relief. 20:26 And there's actually a very interesting paper that I pulled 20:30 from 2021, multiple sclerosis and the Endogenous Opioids System. 20:35 And they said that these clinical observations in patients with M.S. 20:40 and converging lines of evidence that implicate the endogenous 20:43 opioid system in the course of multiple sclerosis, 20:48 and they looked at opioid 20:51 peptides, the morphine opioid receptor, 20:55 the kappa opioid receptor, and the delta opioid receptor. 20:59 And they found that that had a role in immuno modulation, 21:03 which we know is a factor when it comes to multiple sclerosis. 21:07 And it also plays a role in the nervous system.
Pain Relief, Endorphins, and DPA 21:11 And they said the endogenous opioid system is well known to play a role 21:16 in the development of chronic pain and negative effect, which is depression, 21:21 both of which are common when it comes to M.S.. 21:25 So with regards to how do we use the amino acid DPA 21:30 and how do we know if we should be considering it, 21:32 if someone has physical pain and then they all say, 21:35 well, it may have emotional pain. 21:37 So there's this depression. 21:38 And they're the type of depression 21:40 that we see with low endorphins is a lot of weakness. 21:44 And the other thing that we see is emotional eating. 21:47 So comfort reward eating, eating for a treat. 21:51 And often as someone you know the way, the way I do it with with 21:54 clients is I'll say, what is your favorite food? 21:57 And and they'll tell me it's great and better. 22:00 I just love give me a nice thick, warm braid with some butter on it. 22:05 And how would you feel if you could never have it again? 22:08 And they would tear up this emotion, very, very strong 22:11 emotional connection to this food that they love. 22:15 That's a clue that we've got low endorphins going on, 22:18 and using the amino acid can help with the physical pain 22:22 and can help with the emotional pain, and can help with that weakness, 22:26 and then can also stop that emotional eating. 22:29 And I it's like acupuncture in a bottle. 22:31 So it's a similar way that you get that endorphin support, 22:35 when you, getting acupuncture, 22:38 you get this endorphin support, using the amino acid dpa. 22:42 I do find Doctor Wahls. 22:44 Is that using DPA open? 22:47 Gives people a lot of benefits as well. 22:50 And if someone is craving sweets, it does have a slightly bitter, 22:54 dark chocolate kind of taste. 22:56 And they get some pleasure from their taste as well. 22:59 And using using it opened in the same way that we use Gaba open. 23:03 We're getting absorption through the blood vessels in the mouth, 23:05 and we're getting feedback very quickly that, yes, this is helping very quickly, 23:10 and we're getting that pain relief pretty quickly as well. 23:13 Okay. Truly, this was of course amazing. 23:15 I could talk to you for hours, but we need to sort of wrap things up. 23:19 I'm wondering if you had to pick just one take home 23:22 message that you want people to listen and remember? 23:25 What would that be? 23:28 The message that I always like to share 23:30 is to have hope, and to know that they are answers out for you. 23:35 Because out there for you a lot of time, folks 23:39 feel like there's just no hope that they, not sleeping 23:43 well, that they've got this anxiety and that pain. 23:45 And when is it going to end? 23:47 And hearing this information today, knowing that there's some other tools 23:51 in your in the toolbox, listening to the other interviews on the summit 23:55 and knowing that they are solutions and just step by step
Hope, Diet, and Where to Find Trudy 23:59 going through this information and applying it to you, if applicable. 24:04 And then in addition to the the nutrients that I've talked about. 24:06 Yeah, we've also got to consider a dietary approach. 24:09 It's not just supplements. 24:10 We need to make those dietary changes. 24:13 And I know you've got the Amazing walls protocol that you teach. 24:16 And in the same way, I, I have dietary approaches that I use with 24:21 my clients is a lot of overlaps with the walls protocol, like real whole foods 24:25 and avoiding those problem foods like gluten and grains. 24:29 The amino acids can make it easy to make those changes. 24:33 So as well as helping with the anxiety and the pain and the insomnia, 24:37 they can also help with those cravings that I talked about 24:40 and make it easier to get off the sugar and the problem foods. 24:44 So just know that they are on society 24:47 and you deserve to feel your absolute best every single day. 24:51 This has been fabulous. 24:53 Now, Trudy, how do people find you? 24:57 My book, The Anti-anxiety Food Solution, talks 24:59 about the amino acids, talks about all the dietary changes. 25:03 My website, every woman over to com has a very active blog. 25:07 I send out a newsletter every week. 25:10 I'm active on Facebook at Trudy Scott anti-anxiety Food solution. 25:14 And then I have group programs for consumers. 25:18 And I have a practitioner training for practitioners 25:20 who want to learn how to use the amino acids 25:23 and the nutritional approaches that I use with my clients. 25:27 Okay. 25:28 Well, Trudy, this has been marvelous and look forward 25:31 to connecting, in person again sometime soon. 25:34 Thanks, Doctor Wahls for having me. 25:36 And I look forward to sharing and hearing the other interviews.
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