Regulate Your Nervous System To Navigate Chronic Illness

Introduction and nervous system regulation 0:00

Well, Cathleen King, Dr. Cathleen King, that this is always such an honor and pleasure to to chat with you. You're someone that's just full of wisdom and helping people to kind of guide through very, very challenging situations. So thank you so much for for being with here today. thank you, Michael, for having me. So one of the things that that's the biggest challenge. Yeah. When, when people deal with chronic illness is that the nervous system regulation. I mean, we, we have the autonomic nervous system and get the parasympathetic, the sympathetic.

And most people are in that sympathetic mode, you know, and obviously we're in fear and anxiety, stress and fighting for our lives. And so that becomes a big, big challenge because it's hard to heal and it's hard to, you know, detoxify. It's hard to achieve the results you wanted to leave. And when when you're in that state. Yeah. Exactly. It really you know we sometimes get so focused on that diagnosis and miss sort of an elephant in the room, which is our nervous system and how it's reacting to the whole scenario.

And we're, you know, so because we get in that kind of kill mode, we see the cancer and we go kill, kill, kill. Yeah. So it's kind of like, you know, in the old, old days, you know, when we're out there or go hunt hunting the wild, and then we're just out there killing. And so when we're in that mode, you know, all of a sudden. Yeah. So it plays a role, but it it really is detrimental. I mean, it puts us in that inflammatory state. And we know that inflammation then really drives cancer. So so talk to me a little bit about the, the benefits of of shifting away from that mode.

Yeah. It's it's so important to recognize that when you're on a healing journey and you a have the shock of a diagnosis, and then B the protocols or the treatments, which are aggressive and intense and are inflammatory because it's stirring things up in the body that it's crucial for the body to be able to detoxify what it's processing and to lower that inflammation. And so it's it's super counterintuitive in the moment, but you've got to get into that rest and digest and repair mode or the parasympathetic mode so that the body can complete the healing cycle, can complete the detoxification.

And, and that's that's one of the things that I think sometimes we, we miss in conventional medicine, but we get so caught up in doing these protocols, but that the patient who's so stressed out and is also inflamed from the protocols, they're not given tools to help their own body shift into that parasympathetic rest, digest and repair mode, or even sometimes even talk to you about how important this is for them, for their own self-care, is to help their nervous system get on board to process the treatment, and to move through the protocol.

So how can

Processing diagnosis shock and emotions 3:30

I mean, how can a person then shift from one to the other? I mean, that that I mean, to me that that's that seems like the biggest challenge because here all of a sudden you're told you got cancer and and how do you shift from that? I mean, that's in like the scariest words in your life. Yeah. I think that it it often doesn't happen overnight. There's usually a process that we have to go through, as our nervous system might get a type of shock of a diagnosis or, or even an intense treatment. And it's normal in that shock for your nervous system to spike into a sympathetic fight like that is normal.

And we try to suppress that. That's also not nervous system regulation. So that scary thing that's happened, the overwhelming thing that's happened, it's really important that we we are truthful about how we're feeling, that we find somebody to process, that we're scared, that we're angry, that we're worried. All of those things that we need to feel that. And so I think the first step is that you don't go into parasympathetic. You actually meet yourself where you're at, and you meet it with honesty.

And, you know, it might be, going through some therapy to work through your anger or the shock and eventually working through the grief that you're that you're on this journey. And once you've kind of gone through that, then I think there is a daily practice that is important of finding calm, finding peace, even finding joy despite being on this journey that might feel really out of control. And if you're able to do that, and if you're willing to take that challenge on, of finding the joy and finding the peace, even with the suffering or the diagnosis or the prognosis or whatever, there can be a a really enriching experience in your in a really enriching human experience.

I find people that say, wow, this whole diagnosis and journey opened me up to a world that I wasn't even aware of, where you have, you know, maybe even higher highs and sometimes lower lows. But there's this breadth of the human experience that becomes available where there's this appreciation available, this, profound gratitude for the present moment that's available. And sometimes things like cancer literally wake people up to find the living and nervous system. Regulation is a big piece of how you do wake up to living in the present moment.

I love how you're saying that it's kind of meet me that where you're at. I mean, so because I mean, in my my thought would be, you know, I immediately start to meditate, immediately start to do all these you on down regulated. But but you're absolutely right in the beginning you do need to fight the tiger. And so you go and and then also recognize, you know, the, the emotions that are there. You know, like you mentioned the anger. Yeah. Because a lot of people, they are angry at their diagnosis.

You know why? Why me? Why is this happening. And to be able to process that instead of blocking those emotions, just trying to kind of be peaceful in the middle of, you know, when all of this is happening and, and the importance of processing them first. Right? Yeah, absolutely. And another thing I want to say about that is that I see a lot of people who like a particular archetype that often gets cancer, which is a people pleaser, a suppressor, and sometimes they get that diagnosis and they're so worried about what other people think that they try to hold it together and actually find so that they don't upset their family.

And it's adding to that fire within them that they already weren't meeting themselves. And so if that's you, protecting your family is not it's not ideal to do this in this way, because what they want is they want you to live and they want you to be okay, and they want you to thrive and move through this process. Meeting the anger, the fear, the upset with authenticity and expressing expression and finding somebody that's safe to go through that process with is it's a crucial first step. So with that, I mean, you're talking about, you know, including your family, including the two people that are close by.

I mean, what I see with a lot of patients is that maybe some of those people close by, maybe spouse, maybe children may be, you know, drivers, you know, that that it's caused you to kind of get into this place, you know, where you kind of block your emotions, where you're living for somebody else. You're not identifying who you are and identifying your passion, your needs. and obviously there's going to be a lot of anger then towards them. Yeah. In this process. Because now you say, you know, it's because of what I've done for them.

You know, now I have to deal with this. So how do you, do you then you mentioned that going to like a safe person. So do you, do you still kind of play nice with these people, you know, your your spouse and children and then, you know, and then vent with this other person over here and then go back, play nice or how does that work? If you've gotten this diagnosis and you know that you have been pleasing and going against yourself, it's never going to serve you to keep that charade up.

Choosing yourself and changing relationships 9:00

Now, you might need some therapy to help you speak truthfully or, some assistance, some support to say, hey, I need to show up for me for once. And part of that is I've got to express how I'm feeling, amongst probably other things that you need to do to show up for yourself. But what I find with people who here, at least in my community, are they often say this I finally chose me and finally chose me. And so ask yourself, what would it be like to choose me? And what does that mean? What does that mean?

And it's going to be an emotional journey because you have protection against choosing you. It's going to require some contemplation, some journaling, some talking, some experimenting with what that means. But it is a common denominator that I see of people who do self heal from crazy things that they did to them. They put themselves first, and they learned how to love themself enough to be authentic in the ways that they were suppressing. And many of these people, they're they're kind of the ones that they feel if they step away and it's like every everything will just tumble.

There's no one that's going to be able to to carry the load that they're carrying. And, all of a sudden, you know, family is going to crash and, and financially things are going to crash. I mean, it's all these responsibilities that they carry that they feel if I start to choose me, then happy. Yeah. It's like the whole everything tumbles. So how how do you navigate that process? Everything is tumbling because you didn't choose. You. It is already tumbling. That's the reality. Your tumbling. And when you tumble, you've got to that.

You got to face reality. It is tumbling because I didn't choose me. And so what have you seen when people start to kind of go through this process and all of a sudden they start to choose themselves, well, what does that look like? Relationship? I mean, what how how do the people around them respond? yeah. In this process? Yeah. I think that when you're truly, authentically choosing you, it's it's a disruption in the relationship. But I do think and see that these relationships, they they feel guilty.

They know that they're walking all over you. And I think that it actually relieves their guilt and their shame. And they're more likely to support you because when they see you taking responsibility and maybe even having a little bit of, of alignment and self esteem, it's it is unburdening them. Now, there's often, you know, an ego part that at first might react, but deep down we all want those who we love to feel free to be themselves. We all want them to thrive. And I see these relationships actually get on board because they actually see the love.

They start to respect the loved one who has been a people pleaser. And in that respect, a new love is available and it might challenge them to start working through some of their own stuff. But it actually gives them the freedom to do that because you're energetically untangling from that codependent pleaser dynamic. And with that space, they can finally see themselves and grow. And ultimately we want our loved ones to grow. They want us to grow. We all want each other to be happier. So there's only good that can happen by coming into alignment and into your authenticity and self-love.

Truly, there's only good. I love it, I love it, and and how? How does that impact your body when you step into that space? You know what? What happens when your body likes it? It really it really likes it. You're going to see things like your your heart rate variability improve. You'll see things like your ability to, actually feel pleasure and joy, your ability to digest your sleep, things like this, your body love. When authenticity runs through the body. I just saw this research article. Well, it was on Instagram, but they did post the link.

And it was really interesting because it said they were measuring the human bio field with different emotions like, like joy and love and even like some negative emotions as well. But they said that the thing that caused the human bio field to be the the biggest measurement was the feeling of when somebody was in their authenticity. It was more healing than love. Why is that? I think it's that we align with the source that we are. When we are authentic. It's like, well, like a channel just opens and it regulates everything or meridians or chakras, our blood flow, all of that.

So yeah, the body celebrate when you are you and sometimes protective parts of us that were the old like pleasers, they might get a little bit nervous, but you usually feel more life force even though you're feeling that little bit of kick back. There is often a life force that goes along with it. And that's how, you know you're kind of on the right path there. And so when I mean, obviously this is a hard journey to travel and and so are there. And and I know you have a lot of tools, a lot of a lot of things that that you use to kind of shift an individual and help them to that nervous system.

So do you mind sharing? Yeah, some of those tools could be. A share, one that one of my practitioners gave me really early on that I was shocked, had such a big impact, she said. Every morning when you get up that I want you to go to the cupboard, pick your favorite mug and your favorite type of tea, make yourself a cup of tea.

Daily self-care and body communication 15:00

Take yourself to a place that's just for you, for, you know, 15 minutes. Get your journal and write out today what my needs are and write out what your needs are today. How I want to love myself is and write these things out. And it's like you are showing all of your parts that the most important thing of the day is you meeting your needs, almost like I think it's a way of re parenting yourself. You know, the baby wakes up and it starts to cry, and the mom comes over and feeds it and changes it and meets its needs.

Or you, this inner baby wakes up and you go make your tea something nourishing, and you listen to what that inner child inside of you needs, and you let it know that it matters, and you let it know that you intend to try to meet those needs and don't make, you know a list of 50 things like just a few things, a few things like, I need to go for a walk today. I need to call a friend today. You know, maybe I need to do this laundry that's getting around today, but it doesn't matter. It's like these these needs, and you're listening.

So it's the act of taking space and starting to listen that actually starts to calm down the nervous system. I mean, there's lots of fancy tools like breathing and meditating and brain retraining and all that. But I do find that the beginning of that is to make space for yourself, to listen to yourself and to show yourself that you matter, that you choose you. Because, you know, I don't know what your beliefs are, but from what I understand a lot about cancer and chronic illness is it's a loss of communication within the body.

And some level we've lost communication, not stop communicating in different ways. And we are going to reconvene, reestablish communication with ourselves. And it starts like that. And then eventually, you know, you can talk to different parts of your body in that morning practice and listen to what does my liver need? What does my stomach need? You know, you can take this in lots of different directions, but ultimately you're restoring communication and restoring healthy communication where you're listening and, that's that's one of the most healing things we can do.

Yeah, I mean, that that I mean, that that sounds really cool and that and that's the thing is to you do very as simple, simple type of steps, but it, it sets of presidents has set the intention and, and also it allows, like you mentioned that it allows you to recognize. Yeah that I mean it puts you in that safe space where you feel you're you're in control of my day because I'm choosing me. And, yeah, because obviously cancer, it it is like you mentioned, it is cells that are not communicating to the rest.

They're they're not, they're not you know, they've kind of created their own little community. and it is also kind of that chaotic energy. So if you can kind of set a settled, you know, a organized energy, you know, right, right from the get go, you know, that will create the ripple effect for the rest of the day. Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes we think like, how can that little practice help something so big, you know, such as this diagnosis. But you're you're giving a new imprint and a new habit to the entire nervous system and energy system, and you're hitting the nail on the head, I matter, I want to listen to myself, and I want to love myself.

And to me, that daily habit and that daily practice, it has a rippling effect over time, and it's almost like you start attracting more ideas of what you need because you're listening to what you need. There's a wisdom in here. Your body knows who to work with, what to eat, what to take. There's a wisdom in when we start listening to that wisdom. It's like this magnetic attractor field in our subconscious starts to come online, and we just bring in. We bring in things because we're actually listening to what we need, not what they're telling us we need.

And it starts with that small step, I think. And I think also because I believe the body is, as you know, the best doctor there is, you know, the it's incredible innate knowledge that exists within us. And by allowing ourselves to to listen to our body, we are then able to, to kind of choose what type of therapies that resonate with who we are, resonate with how to resolve the issue. I mean, I think. Yeah, absolutely. And in addition, that communication does help us to regulate our nervous system through the day and that we've already started to listen.

And so throughout the day you'll start to notice, oh, well, I'm speaking too fast or I'm ruminating more. You start to notice what you're doing because you've set the precedent that I'm going to listen to what's happening. And ultimately, nervous system regulation is about reestablishing this brain to body connection, of getting feedback of when you're getting out of balance, when you're feeling ungrounded, when you're feeling scattered, when you're feeling fragmented, when you're holding resentment and like, busying yourself with distraction instead of thinking about it.

So it's that habit of restoring communication, of deep listening, that that opens up the pathway for a lot of other practices to, help you continue with that regulation goal. And, and one of the things that that I know you talk a lot about is, is this process of self danger response. and obviously, you know, a lot of what we've talked about, you know, leads into that meaning that, yeah, the body is in that alarm state. Yeah. We we really can't do a lot. So we need to kind of shift our body out of that states.

So talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah. So so the injury response was coined by a brilliant man by named Robert Navajo. And I really use the lens of self danger response to help the people who I teach about nervous system work, why doing nervous system work is the priority and the foundation for any chronic illness. And the idea is that when we have a pathogen or a toxin or an injury, hit our body and our system, our cells are supposed to go into cell danger response, meaning it's a natural protective response so that you can preserve the life of the cells.

They harden up, the mitochondria inside of them send a different signal to the other cell saying, hey, there's danger. We need to sort of shield ourself from whatever is in the environment. And in that shielding, we're often not bringing in as many nutrients, and we're often not detoxifying out of the cells, the cell. So the cell is just in survival and protect mode.

Cell danger response and chronic illness 22:00

It's not in thriving mode. It's not in detoxifying mode. The immune system can get activated in this state, and the cells are trying to protect against that immune response. And what can happen is if your nervous system set point is one of high stress or high trauma or high vigilance, that cell danger response can get stuck. Meaning normally, you know, you get some type of infection or something. You go in cell danger response, the body handles it, and then you go out of cell the injured response and you go back in to living people with a particular type of set point of vigilance, of trauma, of stress, type A, go getters, things like that.

They go in the cell danger response and sometimes they get stuck. And then your body doesn't detoxify and the immune system starts going rogue and getting dysregulated. And you take a bucket load of supplements and they don't actually go anywhere because you're not. Well, maybe some, but they it's hard for them to get into the cell because the cell is in protect mode. So nervous system work. The autonomic nervous system, one of the most direct ways to the to knock on the wall of the cell and say, hey, it's okay.

The danger is passed through our autonomic nervous system, signaling that we can ourselves with our breath, with our thoughts, with our emotional state. We can send signals to the cells, to the mitochondria. But the danger has passed, even if you're still thick, that you feel like the danger and shock has passed and you are ready to heal. And with that signaling, with that input through your nervous system work, the cells can kind of open up and say, all right, let's start moving stuff out of the cell and start absorbing nutrients.

Let's turn on our engines back on to thriving and, you know, clean this stuff up so, you know, you can do that with some other protocols that help do that. But you have this intelligence inside of you to help your body remove out of cell danger response. And to me, chronic unresolved symptoms in my world with Lyme and mold and all of that has a lot to do with it. Ongoing cell danger response. I haven't studied it as it relates to cancer, but I imagine that it fits in. I would love to hear. Yeah. How does that fit into the cancer?

I mean, if it perfectly well, yeah, of course, I mean the cancer in my mind. I mean, we we talked about loss of communication. We talked about. Yeah. And energy gone rogue. So to say it's it's kind of chaotic energy. but it's also then an area that that is walled off, you know, so it, it's whether it is just the energy frequency that is intense, you know, and that can be from trauma, can be from, beliefs can be from anything or pathogens or chemicals. Heavy metals or a combination of all these things, you know, so you, you create an area that becomes like the, the dumpster truck in a way.

And so, you know, so that is exactly like what you're saying. It's this, this area that then gets protected and walled off, and then the immune system is not able to get in there because it has that protective mechanism, you know, so that it's exactly the same. So we say if we can then shift that area into being able to open up and and be able to communicate and allowing the immune system to go in there and to clean things up, to clean up pathogens. And, you know, then then we've we've achieved a lot.

Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. It's amazing how there's just a common under lying theme of a lot of illness which is closed off protected energy because for one reason or another, a lot of times it's trauma and emotion and that journey of how do we reconnect with that protected, self protected parts of our body, open that energy up, which means we might have to feel what we didn't want to feel, and we might have to start taking time for ourself and communicating. And you know, and and it is a journey and it's a it's a sacred journey and a beautiful journey, that, that we have an opportunity to take when we're going through illness.

And in that, I mean, so I mean, the sad part is that some people feel that whatever their guilt, whatever their shame, whatever it is that they're holding within that that tumor, within that cancer, within that protected area, it it's almost worse to let that out than death. Yeah. So yes. How do we how can we kind of make that next step easier for people to. That's a good question. When we have trapped energy in our body like that. usually it's it's a neural network that gets associated a memory, an emotion, a belief, sometimes a behavior that goes along with it.

And when we have that, we attempt to open that up. You're right. We often feel the emotion, the memory maybe associated, sometimes the belief, sometimes there's behaviors. But the deal is the belief. The belief was created at a time when you only had so much understanding of what was happening. And very limited understanding. Often that limited understanding drives our behavior for years, if not our whole life. Here's the deal if you're willing, if you're willing to open up that structure and feel the field and willing to look for other perspectives, I guarantee there's one that is more kind than what you're dealing with.

And I often recommend people look into belief work like Byron Katie's, work or, somatic experiencing or parts work to help them uncouple that emotion and that energy with the belief that's attached to it and find a perspective that maybe they didn't consider. And once that perspective comes in, that's where I see it. That could just it can move because you, the conscious self, have looked upon that situation with new eyes. And that's the miracle of healing, seeing things differently.

Belief work and Byron Katie practice 28:30

Walk through the Byron Katie work because I know that that's such a yeah tool. And that was the first one you mentioned in regards to kind of belief, you know, so just kind of the simple version of what that process looks like. Yeah. And I just first of all think it's an amazing process. There's a book called The Work or a process called The Work and a book called loving. What is that? I recommend if you want to look more into this, but think of it this way when you first start to feel, whatever might be in there, the shame, the guilt, you kind of gotta ask yourself, like, what am I believing along with this feeling?

Like maybe it's I'm no good, I'm unlovable. they never wanted me, I was betrayed, it's not safe to be me. Whatever that belief is, that goes with the feelings. So the first question is, what is? What am I believing? And the second question is, is it true? Is it true what you're believing that I'm no good, I'm unwanted, etc. and there's a part of you that can say, yeah, that's true. Third question is, can you absolutely know without a doubt that that is true. And typically when you when you really look at anything like, can you totally know that they didn't love you or they didn't want you, maybe a part of them had stuff going on, but there might have been a part of them that did love you, and they just couldn't, couldn't handle at the time what happened or whatever it might be.

That's a third question. Can you actually absolutely know? And the fourth question is, who would you be without the thought about that belief, if that if it was impossible for you to believe whatever this feeling that's coming up means, who would you be if you were never able to have a thought that they want me? What would your life be like? And in that questioning a belief, there's often a perspective that comes in that's amazing, and I recommend doing this with someone else. It's often easier to have somebody else who you trust to prompt you through this.

But I, as you learn it, you can do it yourself as well. It's very simple, but it can lead to a very profound, profound awareness of the reality that is today versus the reality that you got stuck in 50 years ago. and I know for me, Byron Katie's work literally saved my life. I mean, at one point I had to question beliefs for like a week to come out of a very dark place because I had a lot of beliefs that I was unwanted and didn't matter. And I had a dear friend who walked me through these questions over and over and held space for me to really dig and to open up my consciousness, to see all angles.

And I found a new truth in that process. So. Yeah. And and, if you don't mind me asking, but what was that truth? I mean, what. What truth was that? My mother had a lot of trauma, and she literally did not have the capacity to take care of me and to connect with me the way I would have wanted. But she really wanted to, and she couldn't do it. She wanted to connect with me. She wanted to take care of me, but she didn't have the skills to do it. And she didn't have the nervous system to do that. And when I got to the truth that she would have if she could have, I knew she loved me.

And I know now she loves me. And I know that she always loved me, but didn't know how to to do that because of her own trauma. And I know that I love my kids, and there have been times that I haven't been able to show them that because of my own trauma and, I know that I'm still a good mom. So, you know, you just keep taking this deeper and deeper, and sometimes I still have to do the work. I can do things and be like, oh my gosh, I'm the worst mom. Is it true that I've always mom, you know, so go those in cycles.

And so when we do this work, you know, to to me, I mean, this is so, so powerful because it becomes that that shift and identity shift in how we see things and that that breaks the, the kind of the wall of, of belief that's created the diagnosis that we currently have. So when, when we do that, how does this kind of belief system and and and shift and and and how we view a trauma, how does that reflect upon us physically? How can how can that impact us physically? So that, you know, the diagnosis may shift and and the outcome is different.

When we have a belief that is kinder than the previous one, it's almost like our nervous system breathes a little bit more. It's like our life we let love and these beliefs keep us from letting love in, which means we are also restricting life force and vital force. When our beliefs shift, we let a little more love in. We let a little more life force in our meridians, shift our chakras shift our blood flow shifts. Your heart rate variability will shift. These things shift. You can measure them. You can see them just by believing a little bit different than you did before.

And it's often incremental. But with that nervous system shift, as I said, it's sending a different signal to the cell, sending a different signal to the digestive system, the detox system, etc. and your biochemistry will shift 100%. Your biochemistry will shift with a change in belief. And with that, I mean, we we all know that the immune system is, as a huge part in healing. I mean, there's so many components of healing, but we a lot of times we focus on the little soldiers that go and they go and kind of clean up debris and checks and see what supposed to be there and not supposed to be there.

Old tissue. We break it down. and then, you know, so they, they do a lot of, of that work. And what we've seen is that, you know, you have the second arrow immunology where, you know, they have all these receptor sites. So you know what we believe, what we see, what we feel

Immune system, coexistence, and healing community 35:00

obviously guides our immune system. Yeah, 100% I mean, that was my big turnaround. I was really sick with Lyme disease and I my immune system was just fighting and and, I felt like there was just this war and confusion going on for a long time. And when I did this work, I got to this point where I was like, maybe my body can coexist with some of these microbes and still have harmony. And so I sent messages of like, what if I could be around threatening things and still be in harmony? Because I think one of my oldest, beliefs is you have to completely protect or fight off all threat.

Both can't be true. You can't be around like imperfect things and be safe and and it translated all the way down into my illness. And so I started to change my beliefs that I could coexist with Lyme disease and have harmony. And that's what happened once I made the choice, to not think that the only way to feel good was to kill every single microbe in my body. I stopped the war, and I started to do peace treaties, if you will. so. Yeah. And, and this obviously translate to here you're talking about Lyme disease.

The microbes. And it translates directly to cancer cells. And, you know, so it's the same kind of mindset. Yeah. To to you know, can I coexist do I yeah. Have to be at war in order to be able to win. no you don't. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it let that protection and how you describe with cancer with anything when the war stops, we don't need to protect so hard and the wall gets more permeable. And then, you know, we have more communication come online and the body can decide, well, maybe I can come in and help.

What's going on here? Maybe we can get along. And since you're not walling me off anymore. Yeah. So. So tell me a little bit about the work that you're doing, because I think it's so powerful. And and you, you have a large community of, of people that, that you guide through their, their very difficult time, you know, dealing with disease. So tell me a little bit about what that is. Well, it's it's twofold. One is about creating a consciousness shift about how to deal with chronic illness, meaning, that there are things that we can do with our own bodies, with our own nervous system, to help our body self-heal.

So it's a lot of education on the cell danger response, brain retraining, the vagus nerve, how you can biohacking that and help your body self-heal, somatics and trauma processing. But ultimately, the goal is to learn how to consciously self-regulate your own biology, to consciously affect your own biochemistry, to create, connections in your own body with, you know, with your emotions, to help with relationships. Even so, it's a big online community where we have courses to teach you all of the science, all of the practices.

And then we have live classes every single day to practice together in a community of people who are on the same journey of healing and wanting to develop this self-mastery of nervous system regulation. That's just so amazing how you do such wonderful work. And I think that out of all the therapies that exist out there, you know, this is like the the foundational piece. Yeah. And and then you can build all these other heroic therapies, you know, on top of that. But this, this is, this is the foundation that's got to be looked at.

And it doesn't matter. You know, in my mind, you know, I have patients coming and saying, well, I had a great childhood, I had great this I mean, everyone was so loving and everything was just perfect. There's always something there. I mean, you have this disease for a reason and it's trying to communicate something. And so we need to listen and and and address it. Yeah. 100%. It is a wake up call of deep listening and meeting ourself. And befriending what's in there. And, yeah, I, I agree, the autonomic nervous system runs the show.

And so anything you can do to regulate that too communicate with that and to influence that, at least I found for me and for the people I'm working with, it really seems to help the process and. Yeah, and and and more than that, though, when you communicate with your own nervous system, it is it is a type of consciousness expansion. It's a very sacred process. Like you perceive the whole world differently because you become more connected to the world. So there's there's a beautiful journey. In addition to the self healing journey available.

I love it. Well, Dr. Cathleen King, this was amazing. You are incredible and your work is awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.