Full Transcript Introduction and Guest Background 0:00 It is my great pleasure to introduce our next guest, a physician 0:04 who stands at the very vanguard of systems biology and precision longevity. 0:09 Doctor Robin Rose is a double board certified specialist in gastroenterology 0:13 and internal medicine, who has devoted much of her career 0:17 to decoding the complex dialog between the human gut microbiome 0:20 and the systems that govern how long and how well we live. 0:24 As the founder and CEO of Terrain Health, doctor Rose has moved beyond the limits 0:28 of traditional sick care medicine to pioneer a next 0:32 generation model of precision health, one that treats the body 0:35 not as a collection of symptoms but as a high performance ecosystem, 0:39 a leading global authority on the gut brain immune axis. 0:42 She specializes in resolving complex chronic conditions, including long Covid. 0:47 She brings together her foundations and neuroscience at Lehigh, Neuropsychology 0:54 at NYU, and gastroenterology at Beth Israel Medical Center. 0:58 With the cutting edge of regenerative medicine 1:00 giving her patients a sophisticated roadmap to optimal gut health, 1:04 hormone balance, cardiovascular resilience, and neuroprotection 1:08 so that they can look, feel and perform at their biological peak. 1:12 That transformative approach is captured in her definitive guide 1:15 to gut restoration, the 28 day Gut fix, and her mission is a singular one 1:20 to bridge the gap between breakthrough science 1:22 and the pursuit of a radical, optimized health span. 1:25 Now you're going to need a pen, paper, and possibly 1:28 some research tools for this interview, folks. 1:32 This is a deep dive into spike protein 1:35 and what it is possibly doing to our physiology. 1:39 It's an extension of an interview that I did with doctor 1:43 Rose for The Longevity Podcast earlier this summer. 1:46 You can go to that for a lot more detail and more deep dive. 1:49 Here we do talk some about how and when and where doctor Rose will sometimes 1:55 weave peptides into her 1:58 treatment or work with patients with these conditions. 2:01 So please join me in welcoming the brilliant doctor Robin Rose. 2:07 Doctor Robin rose, welcome to the summit. 2:12 Thank you for having me, Nat. 2:14 It's a pleasure. 2:15 And welcome to everybody to this 2:18 episode of the Bioregulator and Peptides Summit. 2:21 You guys have maybe have heard of Robin Rose, and you may notice, I don't know 2:25 if this is going to be the first doctor Robin 2:26 Rose might interview or the second Doctor Robin Rose summit interview. 2:30 But there are two Doctor Robin Rose's, one of whom lives far, 2:35 far away in Hawaii and specializes in CKD, chronic kidney disease. 2:40 And this Robin Rose, who is very much not far, far, far away 2:44 unless you live in Hawaii and she specializes in really well, 2:48 I think it's in this post-Covid world you, your specialty has evolved into. 2:54 And I don't know what it was before this,
Post-Covid Immune Dysregulation 2:56 but really you're you're sounding the alarm and helping people 3:00 with this immune dysregulation that has evolved out of the pandemic. 3:06 Am I saying that right? 3:07 Or gut immune brain access. 3:10 What have you. The whole thing. 3:12 That's right. 3:13 So so so folks, if you want a deep dive, there's an episode of my podcast 3:19 longevity with Nathalie Niddam with doctor Rose earlier this year 3:22 where we really kind of dove deep into this whole issue. 3:25 What we really wanted to do for this, for the summit is come here, 3:29 give you guys a bit of a snapshot of this whole immune 3:33 dysregulation that Doctor Rose's observing clinically. 3:37 And then we are going to talk a little bit about where 3:40 the peptides can fit in in addressing some of these issues. 3:43 Now I just want to preface it by saying this isn't going to be a just do 3:48 six weeks of BPC in five weeks of CFPB, and you're good to go. 3:52 So doctor Rose is going to unpack some of the complexities of this for us. 3:55 But it's at least going to give you a place to start from. 3:58 And an idea of this is for you. 4:00 If so doctor Rose, I'm going to stop talking now 4:03 and let you talk, because that's what people are here for, to hear you. 4:05 Not me. 4:06 Okay. 4:07 Well, doing wanted to ask me the first question. 4:09 The first question. The first. 4:10 The first question is what's changed, right? 4:13 Like, what are you seeing clinically? What have you. 4:16 You know, 4:16 you're basically pounding the pavement right now talking about this topic. 4:20 What have you seen happening since the pandemic? 4:24 We all thought, okay, you know what? Fine. 4:26 We're done. 4:27 It's over. 4:28 And it's and for so many people, it's not. 4:30 So what is it that you're seeing that's just not so not over. 4:33 Yeah. 4:34 So I think and I feel like you were the one that helped me tag this line. 4:38 But it's really looking at immunity for longevity. 4:41 Right. 4:43 So beautifully put. 4:44 Yeah. 4:44 We you know, there's the term herd immunity. 4:48 Yeah. That was who's one of my men. 4:51 You know my mentor who I worked with for the last bunch of years. 4:54 Like he terms he coined it herd immunodeficiency or I just call it hurt. 5:00 Yeah. Immunity hurt immunity. 5:03 And so we are now left with this exhausted immune system 5:08 because of what exposure to Covid and the spike protein is done. 5:13 And because it was the beast of all diseases 5:16 that we've seen ever in our lifetime or possibly in many lifetimes. 5:21 And we are left now with all patients 5:26 of all ages, specifically the working class. 5:29 Unfortunately, with immune systems that don't function the way they should be 5:34 because of several factors significant mitochondrial dysregulation dysfunction, 5:40 a severely broken gut microbiome 5:43 because of the way that the virus behaves and it can live 5:47 inside our bacteria in our gut for months, if not years. 5:51 Circulating spike protein that can stay inside ourselves for months, 5:55 if not years, and all of the downstream factors 5:59 that occur as a result of this disease harboring and smoldering inside of us. 6:04 And so now we are left with a very, very sick population 6:10 and not just a sick old population, a sick young population. 6:14 And this is data that can be easily extrapolated from the CDC. 6:19 And we can see not only looking 6:22 at cancer rates, a cardiac, cardiovascular disease, 6:26 neurodegenerative diseases, liver disease, kidney disease, cancer, 6:30 several different types of cancers, but also the disability rates. 6:35 We are a sicker nation. 6:37 Prior to the pandemic for prior to even January 2021. 6:42 For decades prior, the disability curve looked like this. 6:47 It was flat. 6:48 It was a little noise in it, like any statistician would expect, 6:52 but it has been on an upward 4560 degree angle ever since January 2021, 6:57 even up until now, really. 7:00 And that is mostly in the working class population of like 18 to 50 years old. 7:06 Why? So why do you think that is? 7:10 Because Covid is an age accelerant. 7:15 The spike protein is an age accelerant, and we're aging way 7:19 faster than we would have if we were never exposed to this virus 7:24 or the spike protein or this disease, unfortunately. 7:27 And and so and so if somebody. 7:30 Yeah. 7:31 So if somebody 7:32 listening to this and they feel fine, what would you say to them. 7:35 Yeah. 7:36 So I you know so we get worried while patients all the time and you know, 7:40 or people that just come in for health optimization and I still screen them, 7:44 I still look at all of these different biomarkers and different analytes. 7:48 Because when you practice, 7:50 you know, functional integrative medicine, you're looking to avert the crisis. 7:54 Right? So that's what differently. 7:56 I mean, think about it, Nathalie, when you go 7:59 or at least in the United States, when my patients go see their regular 8:02 primary care doctor, there may be drawing maybe 40 analytes, if that. 8:06 They don't even check an insulin level. 8:09 Right. 8:10 Like your insulin goes up before anything else. 8:12 Like, people have small smoldering insulin resistance. 8:15 You know how many people you can save from diabetes? 8:18 I mean, it's ridiculous, right? 8:20 So in cardiovascular disease and all these other things that are driven 8:23 when you that are driven by inflammation and when you have, you know, insulin, 8:26 glucose dysregulation that's just even smoldering or that's just starting. 8:30 Right. Yeah. Yeah. 8:31 Think about it. 8:32 So I am screening people for these baseline neuro inflammatory
Symptoms and Clinical Presentation 8:37 biomarkers, cardiovascular biomarkers thyroid kidney 8:42 I'm looking at you know immune biomarkers that normally we wouldn't look at. 8:47 And I'm seeing a significant amount of abnormalities in those 8:51 in even people that come in presumably healthy or that don't have 8:56 or think they have post-Covid conditions that have, you know, major 9:00 abnormalities on their blood work. 9:01 And guess what? We can fix that. 9:03 We can change the trajectory of that person's, you know, health. 9:08 So that's what I'm doing. 9:10 And, you know, you ask me, what am I seeing in my practice? 9:13 I mean, I'm seeing patients 9:17 like sicker patients than I've ever seen in my life. 9:21 Like, ever. 9:22 I'm seeing young patients, young like adolescents, 9:26 like late teens, early 20s with like that are so sick, like. 9:31 And that were completely healthy, 9:33 you know, like, had no issues, never had problems before. 9:36 People that even just had like mild medical issues with just like a slew 9:41 of medical problems now, a slew of different signs and symptoms. 9:44 And, you know, I speak, you know, I speak all over the country and even in 9:49 some other places around the world, and the amount of people 9:54 that get up to ask questions after I speak and the amount like their jaws 9:58 are just like open and dropped and they're like, 10:02 this is like the missing piece that I was looking for. 10:04 I'm seeing what you're saying, but I couldn't fill in the blank. 10:08 You know, where I was, like, missing that last piece of the puzzle. 10:11 So now they have a better understanding, like, oh, this makes sense. 10:15 This is what I'm seeing. 10:16 You know, my patients are getting Covid still two, three times a year, 10:20 but we don't test anymore because nobody cares, right? 10:24 And I get that you have fatigue from it, right? 10:26 It's like, oh like getting the flu. 10:28 But it's actually not like getting the flu because even the newer variants, 10:33 Nathalie, like the newer Omicron variants that are not virulent, 10:36 that are not pathogenic like the older ones. 10:38 Right. And what they do at a cellular level. 10:42 And there's studies and I show these in my talks 10:44 that show compared to the older variants, what the newer Omicron variants do 10:49 and how they have such a much higher affinity for certain receptors 10:54 on the cardiomyocytes and certain receptors on our glycolysis 10:58 and certain receptors on the endothelium and certain receptors in our brain cells, 11:02 and so on and so forth. 11:03 So what it's doing at a cellular level, right? 11:07 And not dealing with that or not trying to be proactive about 11:11 that is what's killing us slowly. 11:13 And it being sorry, it being the spike protein. 11:16 Because the spike protein is the constant spike protein called 11:20 the persistent virus, or the number of those 11:24 that we've proven in our lab in, in, out, in, you know, in Europe, in Italy 11:29 that the back, the bacteriophages, the bacteria produced by protein, 11:35 there is spike protein from bacterial origin, not just from human 11:39 or, you know, eukaryotic cell origin, but from bacterial prokaryotic origin. 11:45 We can show that from mass spec. 11:47 So there's an ongoing production or, 11:50 you know, factory making production of these spike proteins. 11:54 And so yeah, it's problematic, but it's, you know, driven 11:58 by persistent virus itself or what that virus is doing 12:02 to even the bacteria in our gut microbiome. 12:05 So. Right. So I remember this from the last. 12:07 So basically it's hijacking bacteria in the biome 12:11 and turning them into it's like right out of a harness. 12:15 Not even just the back, not even just spike proteins. 12:18 But they this is very well documented. 12:21 And study two by Bruna and and Kristen's group in in Italy 12:27 they're making toxin like peptides which are venom mimetic which, 12:32 which are mimicking, you know, snake snake venom and sea snail venom 12:37 and all these different types of 12:38 and many of which are very, very toxic to the central nervous system, 12:42 the autonomic nervous system, all these different things. 12:45 So that's just another layer of damage. 12:49 And why we see the symptomatology that we see in many of the patients. 12:54 And that's why so many doctors are just like, I don't know what to do. 12:58 Like, I don't know what's wrong with you or it's all in your head or 13:01 this it's not in their head like they're really, really ill. 13:05 And it's one of the most debilitating, complex 13:08 diseases of our time, you know? 13:11 And so yeah, about it or know how to deal with it. 13:16 So you mentioned that some of the things that these toxin like peptides, 13:20 some of the effects are paralyzing mitochondria, dysregulated ion channels, 13:26 degrading the extracellular matrix and driving all these different issues. 13:30 And so and mitochondria is all it's I mean, rightfully so. 13:35 We're finally 13:35 we're finally getting with the program that it's all about the mitochondria. 13:38 Right. 13:39 Like because if you can well I mean 100% and the mitochondria 13:43 are so significantly dysregulated and there's so much 13:47 mitochondrial dysfunction that, you know, you have to concentrate 13:51 on the mitochondria, because even if you try to address 13:55 the immune exhaustion, right. 13:56 And the immune failure that we're seeing, you can't make T 14:00 cells on a broken electron transport chain, right. 14:04 Like you just can't. 14:06 So if the mitochondria, whether it's a qualitative 14:11 or a quantitative problem, right, which we have to address both things 14:14 in these patients, you're not the patients are ultimately not going to get better. 14:18 Right. 14:19 So because these interviews are shorter than we're used to 14:23 and we don't have we're not going to be able 14:24 to be here in an hour and a half deep diving. 14:26 And I'm not chatting with my Nathalie. 14:29 And I love chatting with my Robin, but I just want I want this 14:33 to be a little bit like a cheat sheet for a whole bunch of levels for people. 14:38 So that number one. 14:40 How do you and 14:42 and I know you're seeing this even in people that are coming in for, 14:45 you know, they're coming. They think they're fine. Right. 14:47 And, and and they and for whatever reason, their body is dealing with it 14:52 better than the person who's dragging themselves in the door 14:56 because of their, you know, it's epigenetics, it's genetics. 14:59 It's, you know, you know, they detox better. 15:03 They get rid of things better. 15:04 Their lymphatics, their kidneys, their liver work better. 15:07 Like there's just all these different things, right? Right. 15:10 Like. Right. 15:11 I mean, I can't I can sit here for ten minutes 15:13 and name off all those things, but yeah, there's a million reasons 15:16 why somebody handling it better than somebody else. 15:19 Right. So. 15:20 So how does someone know that this is an issue for them? 15:23 Like if and let's put aside the healthy person, 15:26 the the person who presents is healthy, let's put that person aside, 15:30 because that person will benefit from the type of screening that you do, 15:34 because that is part of your intake at this stage of the game, 15:36 as a medical doctor, you're like, I'm until you show me. 15:40 Otherwise. 15:40 My assumption is that there's some impact of this virus 15:44 on every person that walks through my door until pretty much pretty much. 15:49 Yeah, but but for someone who's listening to this, who's been 15:52 trying to explain to their doctor what's wrong with them, like, 15:56 let's describe some of the some of the symptoms 15:59 that they're experiencing that are so amorphous 16:02 and that nobody can seem to put a pin in, like nobody can put a finger on it. 16:06 So, you know, I just even saw a 30 year old patient, a 30 year old male patient 16:10 like a few hours ago today. 16:12 And, you know, he's an AI tech guy. 16:15 Whatever. He's brilliant. 16:16 And, you know, he's been 16:17 suffering with this for almost two years and no one's really been able to help him. 16:21 And he's had some success with each bot and this and that. 16:24 But like, nobody's getting to the root cause, right? 16:26 And no one's necessarily said to him like, oh, this isn't long Covid. 16:30 They've agreed that like it, you know, the symptoms 16:33 manifested after his second acute episode of Covid. 16:36 Right. 16:36 But the point is, 16:37 is that the bigger symptoms, the most common symptoms that a lot of people 16:42 experience are the neurological symptoms or the neuropsychiatric symptoms. 16:46 So the brain fog, the 16:50 you know, the memory, short term long term memory, word 16:53 recall, face recall, name recall like all those different things, right. 16:57 Like not being able to think as sharply or 17:00 to hold or to concentrate as long like all. 17:04 And this is and this is forget about him. Right. 17:06 I have patients coming in every day telling me this. 17:10 And a lot of women like even in there, 17:12 they're like, oh, it's like it's paramount opposites. 17:14 My hormones. No. 17:15 Yeah. Not necessarily. 17:17 Right.
Testing and Biomarkers 17:18 Like like why. 17:19 Oh. So now it's a, it's an epidemic of brain fog. 17:21 Like, you know what I mean? 17:22 Like, every woman that's menopausal is brain fog. 17:25 No, that's not true. That wasn't like that before. 17:27 Before this happened, you know, so and then, you know, 17:30 and I mean, yes, men go through Andrew pause. 17:32 And they have their things too. 17:33 But yeah, men like all of these like younger people, like in their 20s 17:37 and 30s and, you know, middle aged patients like having this problem. 17:42 Right? That's like a big problem. 17:44 So that's one of the most things that if you can't figure out why 17:47 you're feeling like this, you should be worked up properly, right? 17:51 You you should be you should be thinking about this. 17:54 You likely this could have started and it came on all of a sudden 17:58 after you had some viral illness, like nine out of ten times. 18:01 When I asked the patient, oh yeah, I had a really bad cold, 18:05 or I had a really bad upper respiratory infection, or I had a flu like thing 18:09 and they didn't test for Covid, or maybe they did, you know what I mean? 18:12 Like, but whatever, it didn't matter. 18:13 At some point it got to the point where nobody even bothered anymore, like, 18:17 you know, like and that's fine, you know, but there's a temporal relationship 18:21 between usually this physical stressor and illness or whatever. 18:25 Right. And then what? 18:26 And then what. Okay. So let's I don't want to dress okay. 18:29 So so that's one. Right. 18:31 And this debilitating debilitating chronic fatigue 18:35 and malaise are not being able to have the energy that you used to have, 18:41 like not being able to get through the whole day 18:43 with that energy that you're used to having or hitting a wall 18:47 or like hitting a brick wall by 2:00 and the need to have to nap. 18:52 I'm just trying to get like really simple here. 18:54 Yeah. No. 18:55 That's great. 18:56 And like, you know, this post exertional malaise. 18:59 Like, well, I had a few great days and I was able to push myself, 19:02 but then I collapsed day four. Right. 19:05 Because because of this relapsing remitting mitochondrial dysfunction 19:10 that I always talk about, 19:11 because you only have so many mitochondrial 19:14 and you have only have so many, well, working ones, 19:16 and then you just lose them up and you're done. Right. 19:19 Because run out of juice completely. 19:21 All these other cofactors of nad whatever. 19:23 We won't get into all the science and the nitty gritty, 19:25 but that's driving a lot of all this and things like that, right. 19:28 So like, you know, the nad drain and you know, doctor, Europe is all about that. 19:33 Like it's very it's so clear as day and so that those are, 19:37 those are huge symptoms right there. 19:39 Like the fatigue 19:41 the brain like classic those triad post exertional maze like so huge. 19:45 Right. 19:46 And then you got then you start getting into people that have like 19:50 just these chronic headaches and head pressure like this, 19:54 this constant pressure or like a band like sensation around their head. 19:58 And this, you know, chronic neck pain or 20:02 neuropathy and tingling, twitching fasciculus. 20:06 Right. 20:07 People, young people like we the amount that like, you know, 20:11 presenting with arrhythmias, you know, like or an arrhythmia 20:15 induced heart attack, you know, like all these weird things, right? 20:18 Like, it's not even like coronary artery disease per se hasn't gone up. 20:23 It's these 20:23 other types of cardiovascular disease because of what the spike protein does. 20:27 Right. 20:28 So so these things that like you wouldn't normally see, 20:32 you know, like these rare crazy autoimmune disease, 20:36 these mast cell activation types and these this autonomic symptoms, the disorder 20:42 like just like all of a sudden my heart's racing I don't know 20:45 why blood pressure is going up. 20:47 Like all the things that your body automatically does, 20:50 but now it's not doing it the right way. 20:51 It's just doing it when it wants to do it. 20:54 Because the autonomic nervous system is so sensitive and is so easily taken out 21:00 by the spike protein, or by the auto antibodies or 21:03 the inflammation, the there's this big inflammatory component 21:06 that's impacting the the nervous system and those nerves. 21:11 Right. 21:11 Like that, you know, are responsible for this 21:14 for our autonomic nervous system and how it functions optimally. 21:17 So there's 21:19 so you know, yeah, the mass of it like there's just so many things I can. 21:23 But those are your main, main players. 21:25 Like why did this happen to me. 21:27 Like why like why was my cancer in remission for ten years. 21:31 And then I got Covid and like a few months later 21:34 like now I have stage for whatever, blah, blah blah cancer. 21:37 You know, he's aggressive, very aggressive cancers that are coming out of nowhere. 21:44 You know, whether it was a recurrence or it's like a new cancer 21:48 and, God, kidney disease like I've never seen before, chronic 21:52 kidney disease in young people to like I will tell if there's any, you know, 21:58 healthcare providers listening to this like start checking to statin sees. 22:01 You're going to even see people. 22:04 You know, 22:04 we're usually used to checking this as that and see, 22:06 because the creatinine is elevated 22:08 and we know the creatinine is not that accurate for many reasons. 22:12 You know, for muscle mass people taking creatine like all those things. 22:15 But we're now seeing a paradoxical change where we're seeing 22:20 low creatinine and a high system and see. 22:23 Right. 22:24 And that's because there's a micro angioplasty. 22:28 These the micro clots that are generated from the from the low grade endothelial 22:34 right that is occurring in many of us at a low grade level. 22:39 You know those clots are getting in to, you know, the blood whatever. 22:44 What's supplying the kidneys right. Yeah. 22:46 The blood supply what's perfused the kidneys. 22:49 And now you're getting like microvascular damage to the kidneys, right. 22:54 That are very delicate. 22:55 And I'm seeing patients with stage two chronic kidney disease 22:59 like I've never seen before. 23:01 GF's are going down and seas are up. 23:04 And, you know, in this patient population too, like, 23:07 you know, the creatinine is low too because they're a little bit 23:11 more tending to be sarcopenia, you know, because they're not able 23:15 to move the way they used to move. 23:16 And they can't build the muscle mass. 23:18 And they don't have that like sort of 23:20 like metabolic security blanket that they used to. 23:22 So anyway, so this is these are the things that you have to start 23:26 looking at and seeing. 23:27 And you're going to be like, Holy shit, she's right. 23:29 Like, I can't believe I'm seeing this. 23:33 Yeah. No. Okay. 23:35 So you mentioned looking at immune markers earlier. 23:38 So how do people test. Right. 23:39 Because again like I'm going through how do we how are people presenting now. 23:44 How are we testing. 23:45 And I know testing is a sore point, but what are some of the tests that people. 23:50 Yeah. 23:50 So if people are sick 23:51 and people are having these types of symptoms like, you know, you definitely 23:55 you want to get a lymphocyte panel on them and a cytokine 13 panel on them. 23:59 You want to see, although I think at this point so far into the pandemic, 24:04 although unless you're getting a newly a new patient, 24:06 like a patient that's presenting brand new, 24:08 you'll see some elevations in the cytokines, 24:10 you know, and I still see them, but not as much. 24:12 I think at this point it's like almost like they're burnt out, you know. 24:15 But the lymphocytes tell a story like,
Peptides and Gut Repair 24:18 you know, your Cd19, your CD4, your CD. 24:21 It's like all your natural killer cells. 24:24 They tell a nice little story. 24:25 And so, you know, following that 24:28 and regaining immune resilience, you know, by introducing certain treatments 24:33 that we'll get into are really good because you want you need you need to 24:38 you need to restore, you know, health and balance to the immune system. 24:42 But you got to do it in the right in the stepwise fashion, of course. 24:45 But yes, like all these things are really important. 24:48 But doing a lymphocyte panel, the neuro inflammatory biomarkers 24:53 like your a beta 42 £0.40 tau two £0.17 tau 181 24:59 Nora filament light chain g fat glial February acidic protein. 25:04 Like I always get those. 25:06 Those are super helpful, especially in my young patients when I see them going up. 25:10 God, the first thing I want to do is do everything I can to drive those back down. 25:14 I would you do that with different treatments 25:17 that are going to support neuroinflammation like certain 25:21 tides, plasma and other basic vitamins like omegas and things like that. 25:27 But you know, and we can get more into that as well. 25:29 But, you know, certain IVs that we use the clinic, ozone therapies. 25:34 Fantastic. You know, things like that. Yeah. 25:37 What about okay. 25:39 So so more so a few other biomarkers. 25:42 D-dimer I like I mean 70% of my patients have an elevated D-dimer. 25:46 Like whether it's insane. 25:48 And normally if I had like you can also the diver will go up pretty. 25:53 It's a pretty good marker if you've had recent infection too. 25:57 Okay. Really. 25:58 You know, 25:59 and and the dimer doesn't 26:00 have to be positive for you to have micro clots and vice versa. 26:03 You know, like, you know, like the diverge just that one minute in time. 26:08 So if you're if you're making those five 26:10 or in split products at that moment when I took your blood, that's great. 26:13 Right. 26:14 But maybe you weren't, but you still can have 26:16 micro cloths that are 3.5 out of 4 or 4 out of four, you know. 26:20 But I like the dimer as just a screen, because if you see a dimer 26:24 and you're like, that's not normal, 26:26 why is your D-dimer 1.2 like that's so abnormal, you know. 26:29 Right. Right. And you know me always talk about that. 26:31 You always talk about TGF beta one transformer transforming 26:34 growth factor beta one because it's a multifunctional cytokine 26:38 that really was ever rarely like elevated prior to the pandemic, 26:41 except for like mold toxicity or maybe like after like, 26:45 you know, it would go up after acute viral illness and come right back down. 26:49 But God, it's just massively elevated now for years and patients. 26:54 And so driving that back down. Right. 26:57 Because we know TGF beta one is good initially for things right 27:01 because of its properties. 27:02 But then when you when the when it's elevated 27:05 for such a long period of time, you're going to start getting scarring fibrosis 27:10 like all these terrible things that you don't want or need. 27:12 Right. 27:13 So that's a really important want to focus on and focus 27:16 like driving that down. 27:17 And there's lots of peptides that help with that like GHQ and Thymus 27:21 and Beta four. 27:23 But you know, you'd be using those for other reasons. 27:25 But it was needed glycerin which I love. Oji. 27:28 The Japanese published a study how it drives down to 81, 27:31 which is like a great, safe, easy thing to use as well. 27:35 How do you use ozone? 27:36 Glycerin? It's a liquid form. 27:39 Is it world? 27:40 Yeah. 27:41 Yeah, I have it here. It's not sitting on my desk. 27:44 Yeah it's well it comes in capsules like glass native. 27:48 Like which. 27:48 Oh yeah. 27:49 Because the capsules get into your lower bowel because ozone to glycerin is 27:53 when you give it, when you take it orally in the liquid form, 27:57 it gets absorbed in the first part of the duodenum. 28:01 So it's going to go systemic, which is great because I love it 28:04 I love it systemic effects obviously, and it crosses the blood brain barrier 28:08 and all that stuff. 28:09 Nebulizer it with or without DMSO is great also, 28:13 especially for my neurodegenerative patients or my patients with significant 28:17 or Nora inflammation or neuro symptoms that been great. 28:22 And then the capsules I've been using to treat the bacteriophages in the gut, 28:27 because those people are going to get into the intestine, the larger intestine. 28:32 And so I've been trying I was trying to do a study around that, 28:35 but it's been sort of hard because I've been so busy. 28:37 So if anyone wants to fund me for a nurse, I'd be more than happy 28:41 to take them up on that offer. I'm just kidding. 28:43 But yeah. 28:44 So we're using that to, you know, see what's going on. 28:47 Yeah. So native glycerin. 28:49 So this is a bio regulator and peptide summit. 28:52 So why don't we talk a tiny bit 28:54 before we run out of time about where the peptides fit into the picture. 28:58 Because you've mentioned a couple already and you know, as everybody 29:03 at the summit understands now the FDA had their heaters in July. 29:08 Well, you just not not a whole heck of a lot has changed, 29:12 unfortunately, other than the fact that six peptides are 29:16 I mean, they're still in the they're one step closer. 29:20 They got approved to move to the back to to the next level, 29:23 but they're not going there yet until there's a few more steps. 29:27 Exactly. But it was a few steps. 29:29 But it was a positive. 29:30 It would definitely moving in a positive direction 100%. 29:33 And a few of the peptides we're going to talk about today were on the on that list. 29:36 So let's talk a little bit about those peptides shall we. 29:40 Sure. 29:41 And where do they fit in. Okay. 29:43 So BPC 157. 29:45 Yeah. Which is crazy that it's one of your tools here. 29:48 Talk to us a little bit about how I look. 29:50 157 first of all, for its global 29:54 like sort of systemic inflammatory effects that it will have. 29:58 And if you read there are studies, you know, decent studies showing that BPC 30:02 like obviously not human studies, but showing that it can help 30:06 in, you know, especially with patients with peripheral neuropathy. 30:09 And so a lot of my patients have peripheral nervous system issues 30:13 and obviously global inflammatory issues. 30:17 And I like to cycle it on and off. 30:20 You know, as part of like my regimen that I do, you know, like I I'll use 30:25 thymus and alpha one, you know sometimes thymus and beta for 30:29 BPC 157 and I'll cycle on and off these during the treatment, 30:33 but we can get them to more. 30:34 But and also I like BPC 157 and I use it in combination with CFPB. 30:39 CFPB was approved. 30:40 And CFPB is a natural TNF alpha blocker 30:44 TNF alpha is an inflammatory cytokines that goes up, you know, post-Covid,
Mitochondrial and Immune Support 30:50 during Covid, post-Covid it's a cytokine that's secreted in the gut particularly. 30:55 So it's going to help again with lowering gut inflammation in combination 30:59 with the BBC 157, which is going to help with the tight junctions 31:02 and helping with that leaky gut. 31:04 So that's like part of our when I'm using it after I get after 31:09 I've tried to clear out the bacteriophages, 31:11 I'm using the CFPB, BPC 157 as part of a protocol 31:15 that helps with restoring health and balance of the gut and the gut, 31:19 so that I use La Raza. 31:22 Tide wasn't on the list. I don't think La Raza tied. 31:25 It is technically available commercially. 31:28 Yeah. 31:28 Because isn't it isn't it doesn't it belong to a pharma company? 31:31 Well, it's all yeah. Or like, you know, but it's thousand dollars. 31:34 Whatever. 31:34 But the compounding pharmacies make it, and it's a beautiful, beautiful drug 31:38 and I trust it from our confounders obviously. 31:41 And it's much cheaper. 31:43 It's like a few hundred versus a few thousand dollars. 31:45 And it's fantastic. 31:47 It's a potent zonal and inhibitor. 31:49 And it is great for helping with healing the leaky gut. 31:52 And that's what I need to do, because I need to stop all those nasty, 31:57 you know, antigens and inflammatory cytokines and what have you. 32:01 Let's leaking out of the gut into the systemic circulation. 32:03 So that's something I'm using up front to. 32:06 So we've got KPC one in the gut. 32:08 La Raza tight in the gut for sure. 32:10 I'm using BPC 157 systemically as well because I do think it helps with some. 32:16 Again, like just like overall inflammation, some of the patients 32:19 that have this neuropathy type thing going on and things like that. 32:22 Let's move to immune exhaustion and mitochondrial dysfunction. 32:27 So the problem is is sure. 32:30 Is there a quantitative issue. 32:32 Likely. Right. 32:33 But more likely there's a qualitative issue right, with the mitochondria. 32:38 Because we know that the spike protein and studies 32:42 show this to that it's going to interfere with cardio light. 32:46 It has a negative impact on cardio been. 32:49 And so so you know you need cardio 32:52 like Ben for the you know inner mitochondrial membrane. 32:55 And to make those your here I have a little picture of it. 32:58 You're Chris day right. 32:59 So you know so you want to have as much surface area as possible right. 33:04 So you can make ATP you know your electron transport chain makes ATP. 33:08 What happens is as we get older right. 33:11 Our mitochondria look more like this. Right. 33:13 So we don't have as many of these little folds in our in our Chris De. 33:18 And it's because we lose cardio light. Ben. 33:21 And that's happening in the context of Covid long Covid two. 33:25 Right. 33:26 We have this loss of the inner mitochondrial membrane, Chris. 33:29 And you know, so on and so forth. 33:31 So that's that's like right, that's a qualitative issue. 33:35 It's a structural issue okay. Right. 33:38 And so if you don't have that Christy there 33:42 and you don't have enough electron transfer chains to make ATP, 33:45 and so then you're not going to be able to do all the other things. 33:49 Right. 33:49 So you know, we figured out like you know, because we were dosing it 33:54 and I was working with like Leonard Pastrana from new from, 33:57 you know, progress and new bio agent and Elizabeth youth and Doctor Earth. 34:01 And we were trying to figure out, you know, based on the 34:04 mitochondrial myopathy studies, they were using very high doses. 34:07 So we were trying to get away 34:09 with using lower doses in the long Covid patients, like way low doses. 34:13 Like I don't even remember what we were giving like 12mg. 34:16 I don't even remember, but we had to go up to 20mg twice a day. 34:21 Like that's a big dose. 34:23 Yeah, we're of SS 31. I'm so sorry. 34:27 Yeah. Okay. 34:27 I thought you were talking about a 20mg. 34:29 Wow. That's huge. 34:31 Twice a day, twice a day. 34:33 So we were trying to go to 20mg twice a day for six weeks. 34:37 I mean, for some people, that's not even if they probably need 8 to 12 weeks 34:41 of 20 minutes, if you really want it to move the needle 34:44 and then you would then, you know, maybe put them on like some maintenance 34:48 dose of like 6 to 12mg a day or something like that, right. 34:52 The problem is, is like not as many people 34:56 really can afford it. 34:57 It's very, very it's going to say it's prohibitively expensive, very expensive. 35:01 So I have some patients that are so sick, whatever, they'll do it, you know. 35:05 And then obviously we're doing other natural ways to support cardio like Ben, 35:11 you know, and then give them Midas conjugal support, 35:15 you know, with certain medications and supplements in the mean. 35:19 You know, 35:19 if that doesn't work, you know, you want to talk about 35:21 just talk about a couple of the alternatives. 35:23 Just what are the couple of the like, you know, acetal carnitine, 35:28 alpha lipoic acid, you know, all your B's, 35:32 magnesium, NAC, glutathione, like all those different things. 35:37 So not so not even fancy stuff, just foundational nutrients 35:41 to help the inner membrane of the mitochondria to recover. 35:46 Yeah. 35:46 Or things that I think I had looked up natural. 35:49 I think I want to say like curcumin also helps with cardio. 35:54 What about that are super helpful as well. 35:57 Yeah. 35:58 Or or what about the PC oil. 36:00 Like my body. 36:00 Yeah, yeah. 36:02 Oh yeah I'm sorry PC yes I love PC. 36:05 Just for the cell. 36:06 For your cellular membrane health. 36:08 Yeah we do a lot of IV phosphatidylcholine in the clinic. 36:11 Essential I love it. 36:13 But yeah. So you know just doing that. 36:15 And then I have this mitochondrial support drink I do that's like ISIL water, 36:19 which is like, you know, I'm drinking I have that. 36:22 Yeah. 36:22 You know, that has like a few, you know, I mean like really important 36:27 amino acids like like glutamine, glycine, leucine. 36:31 And then with which with a free teen. 36:35 Yeah. 36:36 And it creates a cellular gradient where it causes intracellular swelling 36:42 because when people are chronically ill like this 36:45 and have all this inflammation, your cells are really tiny and shrunk up. 36:48 So this will swell the cell. Right. 36:52 And that way you can improve mitochondrial fission. 36:55 And also, you know, protein synthesis and things like that. 36:59 And things can work a little bit better. 37:01 So anyway and then, you know, I and then I use things like 37:05 I'll add that where is the third generation 37:08 like after Arterial and Calyx Pro to help with the glycol calyx. 37:12 And that's going to help with the micro circulation. 37:14 Right. 37:15 And that like repair of the glycol calyx that I told you is so devastated 37:20 in this disease process, you know, helping with like red blood cell deformable 37:25 and making the blood less viscous and things like that. 37:27 And we use drugs like pentoxide filing for that will also aid with that. 37:32 And also flows in which is an STL two inhibitor, is really great 37:36 for helping like with the micro clots in different pathways. 37:40 It's really it, you know, five of the six different pathways that I've mapped out, 37:44 it helps with. 37:45 So giving a combination of those things can be super duper helpful. 37:49 I don't want to forget about LDN like nobody's no. 37:52 Truxtun is hugely usually important 37:55 for both helping with toll like receptor. 38:00 The you know you know like helping enhance like the TLR. 38:03 I think it's TLR two and also natural killer cells priming. 38:09 Yeah I think it helps with that. 38:11 I don't remember every mechanism off the top of my head. 38:13 Well, no, LDN was one of these crazy repurposed drugs, right? 38:17 That just seems to help with so much stuff. Yeah, yeah. 38:20 I mean, it's like a baseline for so many of my patients 38:24 because of, like, 38:25 how helpful it is with all these different arms, especially with the like, 38:30 lowering all these different inflammatory cytokines. 38:32 It really like, you know, in the fibromyalgia studies, it has like, 38:35 you know, a global impact on lowering all these different cytokines, 38:39 you know, pro-inflammatory cytokines. 38:40 And then what it's doing to, again, to certain toll like receptor 38:45 cells and T cells and NK cells and things like that. 38:48 The thymus gland is also significantly 38:53 impacted by the spike protein and Covid. 38:57 So as we get older. 38:59 But isn't it gone anyway? 39:01 Don't isn't our time is going to be so like right? 39:04 So as we get older, our time is Glenn and balloons, right? 39:07 Yeah. 39:08 And so that's why in the longevity space like you'll see like very astute doctors, 39:13 you know, basically cycling 39:15 thymus and Alpha one and thymus and beta four and all those things. 39:17 Right. 39:18 But the spike protein accelerates thymic involution in the young. 39:24 And that is why you're seeing. 39:27 So all these patients get sick like we've never seen before, 39:32 these young patients that are getting influenza A and influenza 39:36 B within a month of each other or within like two weeks of each other. 39:39 SV in the young middle aged population. 39:42 Right? 39:43 Opportunistic diseases that are up 13.5 times, like certain 39:47 Candida infections and fungal infections that we've never seen before, right 39:51 at this point. 39:53 Resistant strep A okay, 39:55 up 800% in the UK, up 400% in the United States. 39:59 Our bodies have become petri dishes for these normal bugs that we've used, 40:05 that we've had antibody response or like adaptive immunity. 40:08 And we were not able to kick that in anymore. 40:10 And it's because of our T regulatory cells. 40:14 And we don't have that T cell education that we need coming from the thymus. 40:19 Then especially in patients that still have some left or right. 40:23 Yeah. 40:23 So the point is, is that I love thymus and Alpha 40:27 one for these reasons to restore T cell education 40:31 or T regulatory cells to bring that balance back 40:34 the Th1 Th2 balance to where it needs to be. 40:37 Right. 40:38 Because that's what's driving 40:40 a lot of the disease that we're seeing in patients like the 30 year old patient 40:44 that I saw today, he's like, I get sick all the time. 40:46 He's like, I never used to get sick. He's like, I get 40:48 I have some really horrible sickness every three months at least. 40:53 He's like, I used to get sick. 40:54 So it's an immune system that's really just gone down. 40:57 Like the immune system just can't function. 40:59 And I think a lot of doctors may argue and be like, well, when I do 41:03 the lymphocyte panel, it's normal. 41:05 But remember, I'm not necessarily saying it's a quantitative problem. 41:09 It's a qualitative problem. Right? 41:11 Your numbers might look normal, but qualitatively 41:14 you don't have the same functioning T cells and B cells
Microdosing GLP-1s and Closing Remarks 41:18 that you did, you know prior to maybe being exposed. 41:21 So you know so I love cycling. 41:25 You know many of my patients with thymus and Alpha one like I'll 41:28 have them on like a daily dose, you know for 12 weeks. 41:31 Then maybe for six weeks I'll put them to three times a day, 41:35 you know, because obviously it's always cost prohibitive to, to a certain degree. 41:38 And then I'll cycle them off, maybe for only like 4 to 6 weeks, 41:41 and then I get them back on because I really it really helps in the, 41:47 you know, obviously in conjunction with the other treatments I'm giving, 41:49 I need to keep these patients immune resilience up, like they have to 41:54 have fantastic immune resilience, because every time they get hit 41:58 and it doesn't have to be Covid with another viral illness, 42:01 they take a huge step backwards and they slip. 42:04 So they have to be maintaining and have to be cycling these peptides, 42:09 doing maintenance. 42:10 IV they're like all the things, you know, to keep their immune resilience 42:14 right where it needs to be so that they don't slip back. 42:17 Because really any physical, mental or emotional stressor 42:21 like they, they, they slip. That sets them back. 42:24 Yeah, yeah. 42:25 So what do you think the world would have been like if you didn't 42:29 have peptides in your arsenal? 42:32 Yeah. 42:33 So have you thought of that? Because, I mean, 42:36 the last thing I didn't even mention was the neuropeptide. 42:39 I use a lot of cerebral asset I love, 42:42 which is harder and harder to get like part of many of my IV stacks. 42:46 And I have wonderful results with that too. 42:49 I love it and I use it in conjunction with poly MVA. 42:52 I stack it after some of my therapies. 42:55 I give it whatever. 42:56 Like I have all different stocks that I've created, but 42:59 that are super helpful for the patients. 43:01 But that's another great peptide I love. 43:03 But what would I do without peptides? 43:06 I mean, I guess it might just take a lot longer to get the patients better. 43:11 And I also think that I'd have a lot more patients, 43:16 you know, relapsing if I did them. 43:19 Yeah. 43:20 So I think that they played a huge role in conjunction with other therapies. 43:25 Again, nothing's a panacea. 43:26 Nothing's a one size fits all. 43:28 Like this is what you're taking. That's it. 43:30 But they are so fantastic when used the right way 43:34 and the right patient, you know, with the right formula. 43:37 They're really just so beautiful. 43:39 And they've been so helpful for so many of my patients. 43:42 So I'm so thankful that I've been opened up to the world 43:46 of peptides that I've been able to use them, experience them with my patients. 43:51 You know, the other preps I didn't imagine too. 43:53 I use GI microdosing GLP ones 43:56 in my long, you know, certain 43:59 pain pathways that are really important in these patients. 44:02 They I forget which complex three I think it is like 44:05 in the electron transport chain, they play a role there. 44:08 So there's just like a lot of cool things that the GLP ones are great for. 44:12 And microdosing that might have found 44:14 has been also a huge game changer in my patients. 44:18 Okay, so before we close, just define for us 44:22 microdosing gloves because oh say nope, that's okay. 44:26 I'm only saying that because people walk around 44:29 talking about a starting dose being like low dose. 44:33 So I say okay, so your lowest dose let's say of semaglutide. 44:37 Yeah. Right. 44:38 Is the introductory let's say is is I think some point five. 44:43 Right. 44:43 What's the lowest of semaglutide. 44:45 Usually it's two five is a start .25. 44:49 Right. As a starting starting dose. 44:51 And then point five 44:51 is where most people kind of end up unless they have to go high dose. 44:56 Yeah. 44:57 Tide is more around the 22.52.5. 45:00 Yeah. 45:00 So to me if I'm microdosing towards appetite it's anything under 2.5. 45:05 That's what I mean by because like I would say 45:09 low dose meaning the lowest dose to me is 2.5. 45:12 Right. 45:13 So anything below that. 45:14 So if like it's a ten milligrams ML and I'm giving somebody 45:19 25 units, that's 2.5mg. 45:21 So that's a that's the lowest. 45:23 That's your low dose. Right. 45:25 But so my patients will start at ten units or 15 units 45:28 which is only one milligram or 1.5. 45:31 You know. And that's it. 45:32 And then and what's beautiful about the 45:35 the the smaller dose or the lower, lower dose. 45:39 Right. 45:39 The micro dose is the patients are not getting symptoms. 45:42 Right. 45:43 And then that's the other thing I want to say too is tight treating it 45:46 only to symptom tolerance to right tight treating two symptom symptomatic 45:51 is fantastic way to utilize them as well to get the most bang for your buck. 45:55 Right. 45:56 So just because maybe somebody tolerance is to 46:00 2.5 or 3, you know what I'm saying. 46:04 There's appetite and they need it for multiple different reasons. 46:07 It's okay to go there because you're not they're not restricting their eating. 46:11 They're not that like I find like when you microdosing two and when you low dose it 46:15 like you're still you still get rid of the food noise, right? 46:19 You can function. 46:21 And people notice that they just look more toned. 46:24 They feel better in their body. 46:26 What's wrong with that? 46:27 You know, 46:28 I mean, they're still doing the things that they need to do, but they're getting 46:31 they're seeing results like better results from what they're doing, you know, 46:35 from how they're eating and how they're, you know, exercising and things like that. 46:39 So anyway, that's how I use that, even in my patients 46:43 that have significant insulin resistance or that are pre-diabetic, like I start 46:47 I micro or low dose them and they they do amazing. 46:52 They're they're a on plummet. 46:54 They lose the weight really really slowly. 46:57 But it comes off and they feel good and they feel great, you know. 47:00 So I don't know. Yeah. 47:02 No I'm a huge fan of that whole way of thinking. 47:05 I think one of the things that people notice is the fluff. 47:08 I call it fluff. 47:09 The fluff comes off like they that that spongy is under the skin, 47:13 like that little layer of inflammation very often will just disappear. 47:18 It's it's not even a 47:19 it's not because you've got patients who don't need to lose weight, 47:23 but they, they're soft like there's, there's something going on. 47:26 And all of a sudden that inflammation goes away. 47:28 And that's when you start to just 47:30 then you get all the other benefits you're talking about, like the improved 47:33 HBA onesie, the improved even faster, even their liver functions 47:38 go down, the fatty liver gets better, their profile improved. 47:43 Like it's really fantastic. 47:44 You know okay, we're 11 minutes over to the deadline we given ourselves. 47:48 So sorry. No. Don't apologize. It's all good. 47:51 So where do people get in touch with you or someone like you? 47:57 I mean, here's the thing. There may be a lot of people have. 47:59 I have a natural. 48:00 I have a treat, a tree, natural. 48:03 Heather doctor and a trained nurse practitioner. 48:06 They're both amazing, 48:07 talented health care providers that have worked with me very closely. 48:11 See all these chronic, complex patients on a daily basis. 48:15 So if they can't see me, they can see one of the members of our team, 48:19 you know, our team at Train Hell, you know, you can go to trainhelp.org 48:24 You know, that's our website. 48:26 Everything's there. 48:27 They can call and get a 15 minute discovery call. 48:30 And then our our social handles. 48:32 For me, I'm at doctor like period. 48:35 Robin Rose on on Instagram and on Facebook I'm just Doctor Robin Rose. 48:41 And then for terrain health it's go terrain health 48:44 on Instagram and on Facebook. 48:47 Perfect. 48:48 Thank you doctor Robin Rose thank you. 48:51 That was awesome. 48:52 You're welcome. 48:53 As always always love being with you. 48:56 And thanks for all your work in this area because it's definitely your pushing 49:01 water uphill. 49:01 So and breaking new ground. 49:03 So I know, I know. 49:05 Oh thanks Nathalie. 49:06 Thanks so much for having me. 49:08 My pleasure. Bye.
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