Sunscreen or Skip Everything Else

Welcome to Hotness, the podcast that brings you practical tools to balance your hormones and rekindle connection, confidence, and desire in midlife and beyond.

I'm your host, Dr. Liz Lister. Hotiness is a safe space for honest conversations about menopause, sex, identity, love, loss, reinvention, and desire, because you can embrace your hotness at every age.

Welcome hot one to hotness the podcast that brings your hormones confidence and desire back online Today we are talking all about things related to our skin Which becomes really something we have to pay attention to in midlife and beyond My guest is the wonderful Jen Rowell co-founder of the Glow Skin and Body Salon in San Mateo, California.

I've known Jen for a really long time, and she's just delightful, super fun to talk to, really an expert. She's a master aesthetician. mixing all kinds of traditional modalities like a wonderful facial, as well as a more advanced modality.

Hydrofacials, peels, specialized fascia massage, lymphatic drainage, gua sha massage. Love the gua Sha on anywhere really. And so we just have a really fun conversation.

We talk about products that we have to add into our routine in order to keep our skin glowing and looking really good. We know we have changes as we get older.

The crepey skin, the dullness, different things that can happen that, luckily, there are lots of solutions to. Enjoy, please, my conversation with Jen Rowell.

Hi, Jen. Welcome to Hotness. Bye, Dr. Liz. I'm so excited to have you here. quite a few years now, and I'm so excited for my listeners to hear your expertise with all things midlife skin related.

Yes. Well, I've been with you 12 years. You have been on my complete menopause journey from beginning to current and keeping me optimal all along the way.

Absolutely, which of course is my reason for being. So let's jump in and can you tell us things that you see specific with midlife women? Midlife, women, we are pretty nuts about our skin.

Let's start with the problems. What are things you that see that women in mid-life are having happen with their skin? We'll talk about solutions, but let us identify the problem.

Yeah, problems as we age, we have less oil production throughout our body. So I definitely see it in the face. There's more dryness in this skin. People complain a lot about creepiness on their body, We've all been out in sun and have a good time.

We start to see fine lines, which then can turn into a wrinkle. And the skin as we age, it starts to just kind of melt a little bit. You know, the bone structure is there, but the collagen and the elastin production slip.

So the face just starts. Make its way down. and so that is a major complaint. Next for sure chest, But just overall texture and that dewiness, that glowiness seems to be a struggle.

Yeah, I'm a very avid people watcher. And a lot of times, if I have the opportunity to see mothers and daughters together, especially adults, even a younger daughter, like teenage or adult daughter and her mom, i'm always just fascinated like, obviously, you can see the differences, but Why?

How come I can tell? So that's some of the things that I'm… You took care of your skin, you could also a lot of times look at your parents and kind of see how you're going to age.

Some people have amazing genes, but you know, if you've not been so great with the sun protection along the way, which most of us, I was born in 64, those were the good times with baby oil and iodine and there's a price to pay.

Right, absolutely. So we'll talk about how to help women fix that because I know that you do that. Let's see, so more with that. You mentioned collagen, you mentioned elastin production.

Of course, hormones are going to be supportive and helpful with. So we know I love talking about that, but I want to focus more on your areas of expertise.

Now, I know that for myself, i've had to really up my game with my skin care. There was a time, I would say, for sure, 20s and 30s, maybe into my 40s where I could just, if I was really tired at night, just splash a little water on my face and go to sleep, but not anymore.

So can you speak to what we need to be doing for our own maintenance routine? And also that, the skincare aisle is pretty insane at many different places.

and everywhere, right? You could go to a CVS, you could be in a professional skin care salon, everyone's got something for everything. But some of the very basics, a good sunscreen, and they've come a long way these days.

And you can find one, but I just always think if your skin is oily, maybe you would be more into a more natural-based silicone-free kind of sunblock. If you're a dryer like I am, I like my moisturizer in my sun block.

I'd like it to be kind-of a one-stop-shop. Some people fear chemicals. There's a lot of great sunblocks out there that are chemical-base that can really hydrate your skin.

In my opinion, there's no point in putting an expensive serum, a retinoid, doing all of that if you are not going to wear a sun-block every single day.

because it just all goes out the window. You could be driving to work on a sunny day. Boom. So sunblock is very, very important. A good cleanser. I know as we get older, you know, I don't wake up dirty in the morning.

Sometimes I do splash water on my face in morning, but if I'm going to bed, do make sure that my skin is ready. to prep all the ingredients that I'm going to put onto it.

As we get older, a retinoid, again many, many choices there, professional skincare line, Oilovole, your dermatologist, but that will turn over your skin.

When you and I were young in our 20s, we would have a skin turnover of about 22 days. Our skin would come, the cell would be created, come to the surface, fly off into the wind.

We were hydrated and moist and we would run around. As you get older, 22, 23, 24, you can get up to 40 days. And that makes your skin look a little crepey, a less reflective.

So a retinoid will turn your skincare over. That's the magic. It helps with acne, it helps wrinkles, but it spins your cycle around it takes about I would say a good three months, I think, for a retinoid to get into your skin and do the work.

It is only put on at night. You can do it about four to five days a week, is ample, but that will stimulate collagen and an elastin. As far as an ingredient in skincare, retonoids are probably the king of anti-aging.

The queen would be vitamin C. Again, all kinds of serums out there, but vitamin c is kind of a mainstay. Put in the morning, it helps with collagen and elastin production.

It also increases your SPF from the inside out. So it's got major antioxidant properties. I love if I've been going. Vitamin C. It's a great one. And even at the end of the day, it kind of stops the cascade of damage.

So even if you are wearing sunblock, a sun is always going to get in a little bit. If you're more sunny, I do like to use vitamin C morning and night.

But vitamin c tends to be like a mainstay in most people's arsenal. A good moisturizer. Do you need oil-free? Do need deep hydration? I currently am into face oils.

You could stick me in a vat of olive oil, a bathtub of it, and I would be thrilled. Now, if you're oily skin, you would not like that. Like me. So I'm oily-skin, lifelong oily, skin.

And luckily for me, I knew that that would stand me good stead later on, like in midlife. I know it would help, so I didn't complain too much. But definitely oily skins.

So oil free, you want to be hydrated. You have enough oil in your skin. So I don't need to kind of submerge you in everything, but you do want stay hydrated and so an oil-free these days, they're amazing.

you will not get surface dry with that. I'm a big believer in eye cream. The eye area is different. There are no oil glands around this. the eye and the neck tricky.

If you put too much retinol on a neck, You will know it real quick. But definitely padding on an eye cream around the eye orbital area. It diminishes the look of fine lines Absolutely.

So trying to find the right one again Do you want it to be a gel based or a cream all up to you oily skin? You might prefer a jail versus a crane but those are kind of my, there's so many serums, you know, I always describe the vitamin C, the serum is like the underwear of the skincare line.

You pay the most for it and yet it disappears and it disappeared because it's very hard to get an ingredient to penetrate the skin. And you'll think, oh my God, it so loosey goosey and its gone.

It's supposed to be gone, its supposed just fall right into your skin and kind disappear. But are you working on pigmentation? Are you creepiness, sagginess?

Collagen production? All kinds of serums these days. Vitamin C growth factors. There's so much out there. So much good stuff. I know. It really can get overwhelming.

Okay, so to summarize, what are the layers every woman in midlife should use on her skin? Are we starting with the cleanser? Yes, I love an oil cleansers. I tend to be drier, but you as an oily skin person, oil attracts oil. It will not make you feel greasy at all.

And the oil cleaners these days, when you add water to them, they tend the suds up a little bit. So it's not like you're wiping it off with a face cloth.

You can really, it's a beautiful way to take your makeup off. And even when I'm doing facials, I find so often when doing a cleanse, a lot of people's foundation gets caught around the nose, in the eyes.

They think they're taking their makeup of, but do not be shy. With an oil, you get that beautiful spread. It takes off all the mascara. So I always start with an oral cleanser, and then my second cleanse is a gel cleansers.

This is at night. I don't do two cleanses in morning. Then while my skin is dry, I personally put on at night. I do a growth factor, which. These are the messengers to the body.

And as we get older, we make less of these and they remind us to produce collagen and elastin. They tighten up your skin, they improve skin texture. I love a good growth factor.

So I always layer that on and let it go in. Then a retinoid on top of that, depending, uh, I would follow what are, the instructions would be. Anything you get from your dermatologist at Trenton Owen and such is going to be I say powerful, but not always in such a good way because it can cause redness and inflammation and peeling and it will stop.

I prefer professional grade retinol, which will go literally into the pore or the cell, communicate with it. It's almost like I opened the door. and it operates in the skin on a very anti-inflammatory way, stimulating collagen and elastin.

They are not super hydrating, so I will then put a face oil or a moisturizer on top with an Ike. And then in morning, I like to use a lactic acid cleanser just because when you are using retinol, you're increasing your skin turnover.

You're not going to get a flakiness per se, but you skin cells that you can't see with the human eye. So a beautiful lactic acid cleanser. If you just leave it on, it's like a little mini peel.

You rinse that off, your skin will absolutely feel softer. And then I layer my vitamin C and then, I do my sunblock. I do my eye cream and I did my sunblock.

So a little simpler in the morning, but nighttime is when your brain heals. It's when you're skin can heal. Take a lil extra time. And I would suggest as soon as you get in, wash that face because you know what it's like when start to watch your Netflix show.

Uh, you go into bed when older with stuff on your face. No bueno. Right. You want to clean it off the daytime thing and get those and let them work. Okay.

This is really, this is amazing because you're identifying specific items that I'm not sure I've even added to my routine as a woman in midlife. Okay?

Do you use a retinoid now? I was using it very consistently for a long time and then I went to have a facial done and she was saying things were very red and I realized that all the layers had the retinoid product in it, and it was too much.

But I may have thrown the baby out with the bath water, so I need to come to a consultation with you. I'll bring all of my products and I will show you, but the layers that I have understood are cleansing and then a toner.

serum and some type of cream, some kind of moisturizer. And then, so that's the order I do things in. Then my favorite product is, which is all I have on right now as a base, I don't use foundation, it's too thick, but I use a tinted sunscreen.

Yes, right. That's what I put on there. Okay. Yes. And just kind of, you know, if you have freckles or whatever, You're still going to see them, but that's wonderful.

Then, that is fine for our day. But of course, again, If we're in Hawaii, I'm just going use that as an example, we must be reapplying. If you're just out and about, because even when you are in your office, and you were getting damage from the overhead lights, us talking right now with the blue light, That is also breaking down college.

Even for those that work from home, you would definitely want to have a sunblock on if you're working from your computer all day. That is amazing, that is so good to know.

All right, wonderful. And I can't wait to make little lists for this conversation that we're having that I'll put links to. Let's see, now, how does a woman know when she needs to come in for a treatment?

Tell us about actual treatments that… I hear about these things all the time. I love facials, I have them pretty regularly. But what about a peel or other types of…

Dermaplaning, for instance. Yes, all of those. Walk us through a little bit of that. Yeah. When you say treatment, I mean, a facial to me is the steaming and the cleansing and extractions.

And in my facials, lots of massage. I'm a very, very big believer that my hands can do more than any machine. Lymphatic drainage, lifting the skin that way.

But a treatment would be, for instance, dermaplaning. Dermaplaining, we are trained to do this, is done with a scalpel blade and it is in a certain motion.

Now you can buy cheap little devices that they sell all over the place. to take off vellus hair, which women have, but that is, it will take of tiny little bit of vellers hair.

So people maybe use it on their upper lips sometimes or their chin. You want to make sure you only use that cheap blade once. And I'm not, I say cheap just because you can get it over the counter.

But with a dermaplaning treatment, It is a process of taking off the vells hair which is why most people do that because the way this, the light will hit your face, The way your makeup goes on, its beautiful.

but it also takes off layers and layers of dead skin, originally devised by dermatologists so they could penetrate a peel deeper. I love a good dermaplating.

It is unbelievable how the skin looks and what it will absorb. There's no other exfoliation I can do that's deeper for my level of practice, and we pair it with LED light therapy.

Sometimes I pair it with a sheet mask. It is incredible, but it is a treatment. I always do like to do some massage at the end of that because I like penetrate stuff.

But dermaplaning, if you're feeling dull and dry, is unbelievable. Hydrofacial is very popular. A done with, a wand with the suction device that puts in serums and sucks out debris at same time.

Great for extractions, can give you a very, very nice glow. That's a great one. Peels, my gosh, there are so many. Ones that will make you peel, ones that I call, we do a peel that's a growth factor peel and it is the no peel peel.

That will give you a beautiful exfoliation and then start to generate collagen and elastin underneath. And then of course, again, you don't underestimate a basic classic European facial.

Enzymes again taking off the dead skin people feel because you leave so soft because your probably not doing that depth of exfoliation at home But you also think the key dr.

Liz is being still on a bed my bed you are forced to be still for an hour hour and a half however long the treatment is and You just don't do that at Home and the amount of times people fall asleep which again is so good for your skin Just to give yourself a little bit of time and then wake up Looking better than you came in.

It's a joy. Absolutely. I love that I'm so glad you mentioned the European because my family's from Argentina Whenever I go there, I will usually have a really extended facial while I am there So that gets really interesting because I don't always understand the products that she's talking about I really have to do quite a bit of extra research for that, but she also has this sort of interesting instrument.

it's like a glass instrument with like some kind of electrical current is that does that sound yeah okay sometimes you can use that um by frequency you.

Can use it to penetrate a product you could use. It to if you've done a lot of extractions on people that yes and it is definitely still in use and. it was definitely the europeans that started that we find what we do today is more led light therapy you have red light and blue light which i cannot say enough about the benefits are amazing Red light, that collagen and elastin stimulates blood flow, will literally penetrate deeper than any ingredient can get you.

So right now you can get amazing masks. Shark Beauty makes a beautiful one. I think they even have it at Costco now. They look like a catcher's mitt. You could wear it around the house and get that amazing mitt at home.

The Blue Light, if you are suffering from breakouts, is incredible. It kills acne bacteria below the surface level. It tightens up your pores. It reduces redness.

it reduces oil production. So instead of high frequency, we tend to do our facials with either red or blue light. But again, that is one device that you can get at home that it's so easy to use and is really, really good these days.

hot. They're great at home. Worth it for $300. It's well worth it. And it's something that you have for a long time. All the time you would make in your coffee.

Okay, minute timer, make your copy. Your skin is already plumped up. You're watching again Netflix. Um, you could hit a couple cycles, do red and blue.

When you do light therapy, it is wonderful. And they're using it now for hair growth. You can almost get baseball caps in it. Kudos. That is so great.

Oh my gosh. I definitely am going to need to ask you more about that. All right. What about, just tell us just briefly a little bit of what's different at a dermatologist's office?

What are situations where you think that a woman needs to see a dermatologist and what types of procedures are they going do and in what scenarios? You don't have to tell me at length, but just like a bit a reference, when does a women need go to that step?

A dermatologist is very important. Number one, to have yearly skin checks. I've had some melanoma removed on my nose. They are very thorough. they will cover, you know, your feet to your body to under your breasts, in your hairline.

Skin cancer is a very prevalent. So number one. Yes, everyone should have a dermatologists for that reason. There are the ones that can inject you with Botox.

They can do different lasers, for instance the IPL, the intense pulse light, people that have hyperpigmentation and brown spots, maybe they don't want to use the serum for six months.

You can go to a dermatologist, that laser will specifically just grab onto those brownspots and they almost look like Folger's crystals when they come out.

They're dark brown spot and then they just fly away into the wind. And you normally do it in the winter, you'll need a couple of sessions. A V-beam laser, great if we get a lot of broken capillaries, some people get on their cheeks, around the nose, super helpful for that.

All kinds of lasers to stimulate collagen. I just think the tricky thing is I find a lotta people are coming in with jowls and a laser can only do so much.

You can only lift the skin so much, even with a filler, you can lift it so. So if it comes to a point that this is really bothering you, that is a plastic surgeon's territory, but you could certainly fend it off for a little while and a botox on the forehead.

That can be a game changer for people. You got to be careful about that filler and overfilling because then it can look a. Odd. Indeed, indeed. And I'm always sad when very young women, because that's popular now with super young woman.

I think people look older. I visit my mom in California sometimes and it's definitely a look down there and I'm like, hmm. Yeah. Exactly. That is so wonderful.

And I know that I could just keep asking you questions, which I will when I get to see you. Yes. So I definitely can tell that I want to come in to do a consultation with you and bring you all the products I'm currently using.

I even have a little red light blue light device that i got at a medical conference and I have no idea how to use it. It's an attachment to a massage gun and i've used it for that purpose but I haven't used the redlight bluelight so i'm really happy to learn about that with when people do do that because I like to talk about ingredients and definitely I will say this to the professional skincare lines put a lot of science into that and just the quantity and quality of the active ingredient in a professional skin care line versus an over counter and when I say over the counter oil of LA I've got nothing against it but if you do want to see a change if probably 40 and older, you want a quality vitamin C.

It does matter. There is a science to the delivery system of a vitamin c. Uh, there is science or retinol. there's even a side to a hyaluronic acid, which we naturally contain in our skin.

So maybe, if you were trying to pick and choose as far as spending money on something, a really good serum and a retinoid Yes, because I think you can find some blocks all across the line these days.

I do like when people bring that in. And sometimes with my clients too, I have clients that come in every month and I always vary the treatments. But if I saw you and we were scheduled for a dermaplaning and you had a lot of you've been in the sun, i'm going to switch that right over to something else.

you know, how often do you get a facial in a perfect world? You know once every month I do have clients that are able to do that. I have client that come in four times a year.

All of a sudden their daughter's getting married and everything matters all of the sudden. I also would say have a facial when you just want to be still and have hutch and massage and your neck stretch and you're face lifted.

I will take before and afters of my clients, especially when I'm doing wash-all, which is a lymphatic drainage kind of massage. It is unbelievable. Yeah, lovely.

That is beautiful. I love that. If someone wants to learn more about your studio, your salon, they want to do a consult with you. What's the best way to reach you?

Best way is through our website, lowskinembody.com. We are located in San Mateo, California. Woo, 22 years. We have been awarded best facials, best waxing, and San Mateo numerous times.

I have three amazing partners. And I've been an esthetician for 30 years, most of my partners have. we absolutely know what we're doing, we want it to be a comfortable feel, I'm not about shaming you when you come in if you're not doing the right thing, that I am not having 12 products for you to buy when leave.

It's a discussion, it's journey. You know, some people will make the investment, others will just kind of keep going. And that's all fine and dandy. I mean, if I can make you feel good for that day, that is great as well.

But it is a partnership and it's been such a wonderful career. Like I said, for 30 years, I've been to weddings, watched people come in pregnant, have their babies.

Now I work on their daughters, work with their husbands. Beautiful. That is such a gift. I want to wrap us up by asking you a question that I ask each of my guests, which is, what is one thing that you personally do to connect to your own hotness?

feel my hottest when I am in gratitude, when i see the blessings around me, whether it's my small business that is still a success after 22 years, these relationships that I have with clients, if someone is having a bad day, making someone feel better, but just being in Gratitude about the products that i have in my bathroom, the home that, I live in, my sweet, sweet husband, a career that Gratitude is the ultimate prayer, and that is when I feel my very, very best.

That is so wonderful. Thank you so much. And I look forward to seeing you again soon. Yes, please do. I would love to give you a facial. My god, you would.

Love it. Awesome. Bye, Dr. Lisa. Thanks for listening to Hotness. Help more women find these practical tools by liking, sharing, following the show, as well as leaving a review.

As a gift for listening, go to drlizmd.com forward slash hotness for your free midlife guide filled with powerful support for you mind, body and soul because you can embrace your hotnes at every age.