Supporting Longevity with Purpose, Plants, and Science | Dr. Mussallem + David Vanderveen | Ep. 58

Introduction to IM8 and the podcast guests 0:00

Men don't need extra iron. Having iron in a multivitamin would expose a man to potentially iron toxicity. We started with David Beckham. He was saying, hey, when I'm traveling all over the world, I've got this duffel bag full of supplements. Is there a way to simplify this and make this better? A product is not a product if it really doesn't have the science behind it. Meet Dr. Don Musilum, integrative oncologist at Mayo Clinic, and David van der Veen, a global wellness visionary. Together, they're shaping the future of health with IM8.

Co-founded by David Beckham and redefining what longevity means, stay tuned to discover why the science behind IM-8 truly matters. There's no other product on the market that is bringing the Science to the table. When you look at IM8, you have 92 ingredients, which would equal about 16 supplement products. I'm already healthy, I eat my fruits and vegetables, why do I have to take a supplement? It never should replace getting adequate vegetable and fruit consumption in your diet. Whether someone's eating the perfect diet or the standard American diet, there's nutrient gaps.

Are you still getting all of the different ingredients that you need without taking these 50 pills? I truly eat the Perfect Diet. So I thought, I don't think this is going to make a big difference to me. And I really did not think I would feel better. Over 90% of people using the product are like, I feel an energetic benefit. But ultimately, it's how it affects your life and actually makes your live better. That is the only thing that really matters. What are, in your opinion, top three biomarkers that you would want to see on someone who's taken a supplement?

I really love that question. And for me, Welcome to another episode of a Healthy Point of View podcast. I'm your host, Sam Tahata. And today, as you guys know, we bring experts from all over the world to talk about health, wellness, and beauty. Today we have two guests that are behind a product that we're seeing all-over social media. People are talking about it, there's buzz. The reason why people are talkin' about is that there is true science behind this supplement. And there's supplements out there.

As you guys know, everyone's cutting corners, doing different things, not on this one.

Why David Beckham co-founded IM8 1:57

So today we have the team from IM8. It's a product that's backed by David Beckham. and we have the lead on the scientific advisory board and also the president of the company. We have Dr. Don Musalim, right, did I say that right? And then we got David Vanderveen. I'm horrible, I always chop up names. But you know what, this is good, that I am, just hoping about it. So guys, welcome on to the podcast. Thanks for having us. Great to be here. You guys have an incredible story, both of you guys, on how you got involved with this product.

So, yeah, David Beckham. Why is David Beckham getting behind a supplement product? Why? You know, I think that's a great question. David is a co-founder of IM8 with Danny Young, our founder, CEO of Prenetics, which is the parent company for all of this. And, you know, David and Danny had met through mutual friends in Hong Kong. And David was fascinated with the science of prenetics, which was a life, it's a Life Sciences company in Asia, particularly some of the early cancer detection work we're doing with Dr.

Dennis Lo. what could we do to simplify supplementation and nutrition? He says, look, I've always had access to the best healthcare, the training, and the nutritionists. How do we make that available to everyone? And so what Danny and David really set out to do was to create this baseline of nutrition for everyone with an all-in-one functional supplement that tastes great, that makes you feel energetic, it actually has some great ingredients in it. Amazing. You know, listen, a product is not a project if it really doesn't have the science behind it.

Dr. Don, when they asked you to actually join the team, what were you thinking? It was so exciting. So my first call with Danny, believe it or not, was a Zoom call at 4 a.m. I was heading to the airport. He's in Hong Kong. Oh, I wake up early. Let's just do this call while I'm in the back of an Uber. We were both so energized that I said, hey, hold on, i'm going through security. Picked it up and we finished the call all the way until I got on the plane. We just had so much in common, and my passion started truly when I was a kid.

I just was really fascinated with longevity and just optimization of the human experience and really to bring individuals through to flourishing. And that's what my practice is. So really, this has been a gap in what I always wanted to do with my patients. When this became a possibility to join efforts with IM8, with the scientific rigor we have at Mayo Clinic, it was just a no-brainer.

Nutrient gaps, methylation, and supplement formulation 4:46

It's just what we wanted do. really honored and excited to be in this position to develop the world's best supplements to support the human experience. So let's talk about your experience with the Mayo Clinic because you know the male clinic is a leader in the health and wellness industry overall just in a clinical setting so when you're taking that expertise that you have from you to that background how are you applying that to this product? Exactly. You know, so my specialty at Mayo Clinic is integrative oncology and lifestyle medicine.

And you know at mayo clinic we're seeing the world's sickest individuals and many times folks acknowledge Mayo clinic as being a place where people go when they're unwell. But we are masterful about taking the un well person and bringing them through to retaining their vitality and then flourishing after and so It is very important to us that we have solutions for our patients when it comes to optimal nutrition, helping our patient's move, get exercise prescription, managing stress, social connections, avoiding toxic exposures.

So this was another one of those solutions that were really enthusiastic about, particularly as we become really more active even in that healthy aging space. For so long, I've been at Mayo Clinic since 2000. I started my clinicals when I was in medical school. And I do remember back in 2000, it was a little bit more of a focus on the sick care, getting them better. But over the last decade, decade and a half, its really also fundamentally became quite a resource at Mayo Clinic for folks to come to us for healthy aging solutions.

And though lifestyle is the goal, there are a lot of gaps in our lifestyle, and particularly, as you know, with nutrition. And so to solve that gap with the nutrition, on top of the confounding stressors that we have with modernization of lifestyle we need to have things like IM8 that can close those nutrient gaps and then potentially even enhance the ability for cellular health, mitochondrial health energy protection and beyond. You hit a really good topic about lifestyle. And when you look at people's lifestyle, especially the things that we're putting in our body, the foods that were eating, supplementation, in my professional opinion, is extremely important because a lot of our food are nutrients dense.

They don't have the nutrients that they're supposed to. So when it comes to utilizing a certain supplementation product, what's your opinion when comes including it for people who already take that proactive approach to their lifestyle, where they say, well, I'm already healthy. I eat my fruits and vegetables. Why do I have to take a supplement? Sam, I love that question. And you know, whether someone's eating the perfect diet or the standard American diet, there's nutrient gaps and there was no denying it.

Unfortunately, the Standard American Diet, 60% of that's ultra processed foods. So people just aren't getting what they need in that situation. and that needs to be remedied by eating healthier. But even in the Perfect World where someone is eating a healthy plant predominant plant forward diet where they're getting the vitamins and minerals you would think they would be getting from produce or from vegetables and fruits. Because of monoculture farming, because of the pesticide exposure, we just don't have that nutrient density that we used to have in our produce.

And I see that in my patients. I check these laboratory studies in both my patience that are on the standard American diet, as well as some of them eating the perfect diet. And I find so many vitamin deficiencies. But it's not just me. One of my colleagues is an oncologist, kept on seeing wound healing problems, and he checked vitamin C levels. And he was finding extremely low levels of vitamin c in our patients in the cancer center. That was actually not one of the vitamins I was regularly checking in my patient population because my patients already on a very plant forward diet.

That is what my specialty is in lifestyle medicine. But I just really so actually proud of my colleague in the oncology space to think of checking a vitamin C, but also quite disheartened to know that we are seeing this amount of significance of vitamin in nutrient depletion. And that's not even speaking to the phytonutrients. We're not checking phytonutrion levels in most situations. So it definitely is a solution we need to have. The other problem is when folks go to marketplace to buy their multivitamin, some of those multitamins are just harmful with how they have been formulated.

Synthetically made all kinds of processed things in it right precisely what they're adding in terms of fillers You know one of the little simple things you know when we think about cellular health is the ability to methylate if someone's eating a healthy diet Well, that's really where we need to start with methylation, but there's many people that don't know how to take Folic acid for example and do with it what? They're supposed to do it that so methyl folate should always be in a standard and Multivitamin formula, but very few of them have that of course.

Energy, gut health, and the benefits of IM8 9:35

I made has that same thing with methyl b12 You really want those methyl donors when you think it's just some of those basic B vitamins But it goes so far beyond just just keeping it simple You know, I personally do not like iron and multi vitamins men Don't need extra iron, right? If you are iron deficient, you're losing blood somewhere in most situations where you just not eating a balanced diet. So things like that, having iron in a multivitamin would expose a man to potentially iron toxicity and iron is an oxidative agent.

Those are just three very simple examples When you look at IM8, you have 92 ingredients to help to close those very basic nutrient gaps, which would equal about 16 supplement products. So that was David Beckham's one ask, was I just need a one stop solution. You know, that is easy and quick and convenient without having to open up all these different bottles. Let me expand on that. So when you're talking about these different nutrients, like you said the methyl, you know, B12, and you also said that methylfolate.

There's other versions of B-12 as well. Why go the methylated version? Again, a small subset of people, and it's a wider percentage of the people than we realize, have a gene mutation called MTHFR. And they're not able to actually absorb the B12 as well as they should without that methyl donor group. When it comes to B-12, period, some people have harder time if they are swallowing a pill. So sometimes if you're letting it even dissolve in the mouth as it is going through, there's more digestibility even with using the powders or the liquids with that B 12 supplement.

Right. Amazing, amazing. David, one of the things that Doc mentioned is what David Beckham wanted to do with a product and make it kind of like a one-stop shop. And when you start watching a lot of these guys in the longevity space, the biohackers, right? You watch people like, for example, Brian Johnson, and all of a sudden it's like you have this drawer of pills and this and that. And anyone who wants to just kind of take that first step to take control of their health, they see that and they're frightened.

It's like I'm not taking 55 pills first thing in the morning and then another 55 in evening. So why put something together the way that you guys did, right? And then the question to follow that as you answer it is, Are you still getting all of the different ingredients that you need without taking these 50 pills that see some of these other people doing? It's a great question and I'll let Don jump in on some this too, but I think from our perspective as a brand, we wanted to have something that was simple and elegant and was really going to drive compliance.

I owned an energy drink and sports nutrition brand previously and our whole focus was total experience. We wanted to help people get sugar out of their diets. We want to get essential amino acids into their diet as a couple examples of things we were doing. But we realized that if people didn't enjoy it, they weren't going to use it. And so one of the big, you know, because you have to build a habit. If you don't like it you probably won't. So one of the big keys with this is we wanted people to have really fine deep enjoyment.

People who are polyglots, who speak 11 or more languages, have one thing in common. It's not how big their brains are, it's how well they memorize, is do they enjoy learning language? If you enjoy it, you'll figure it out. And so we want this to be on the counter, not in your fridge. We want it to something that tasted good, that you didn't gag on when you were drinking it. And we wanted you to feel really good after you took it. There's no stimulants in it, and Dawn and I were talking about this because she's always incredibly energetic.

And some days I am, but I'm inspired by Dawn. I mean, we could bottle what she has inside her. You know, I'll give you some, But I want to have some too. Yeah, yeah. We'll split it! Yeah. But she always has amazing energy. but, you were feeling it Dawn, And I was like, what am I feeling? Because it felt like it was starting in my gut. It was this sort of deeper cellular positive energy, But it felt so good. And so it's in our IRB study we're doing right now on consumer response. But over 90% of people using the product are like, I feel an energetic benefit.

There's nothing in there on its own that would show that. Synergistically, we have a really clinical dose of pre-pro and post-biotic, so that's going to activate your gut. And I think it was Don and Dr. Devkota from Cedars-Sinai were saying, probably there's a gut metabolite being activated here. So we're studying 230 gut metabolites now with artificial guts to see what's being activate, finding some interesting things. And then we have CoQ10 and MSM that are probably being active. Don may have some other ideas, I'm not the scientist, but there are some really great synergistic benefits from having all of these things in one basket.

And obviously we get a lot of anecdotal responses because different people have different deficiencies and so they're going to have a different responses to what they feel. Almost everyone feels an energetic difference. We were just with David Beckham here at the owner's box at an Inter-Miami game about a week ago. And one of the top women's tennis player was there who we found out had been using the product for a month. Oh really? And I was talking to her partner who also helps manage her career and he said, you know, she made me start taking it because she's feeling so much more energy.

It's changing her ability, how she is training. and her endurance. So I think that's a big part of it, just you feel great, you the benefits, feel the energy, it makes you want to use it. Dawn was telling me how she had a little extra IMA on the way down here as she's driving down today. I do. It is really exciting. And I really did not think I would feel better when I started it. It was probably about six months ago I've been on it now. Well, probably longer, actually about eight months. Same, we're both cynical.

We've tried everything, right? Exactly. And we take really good care of ourselves. Being a lifestyle medicine physician, I truly eat the perfect diet. So I thought I don't think this is going to make a big difference in me, but I'm going go ahead and take it, and I run marathons. David trains for maratons with us. Where we have a lot of fun together seeing who's running faster in any one given day. Dawn's run faster. But it really fuels me. And I travel extensively, and it's keeping me really healthy.

But the synergy, even in the greens, or you could say the reds, because it is a red color, has a beautiful acai flavor. The smell is lovely, which even that separates it. That, for me, my motivation would be taste and flavor, but man, we nailed it with taste, flavor and even the color is very beautiful, pretty red-color. The super greens or the reds formula in this was well thought out. It never should replace getting adequate vegetable and fruit consumption in your diet, but it can help to support that.

Then we have the adaptogen blend. When it comes to stress, having a nice balanced subtle, and I use that word subtle for reason, adaptogen blend is very important. Now, that brings me to the next point that we are NSF certified, which is critical. So this is going to test for the heavy metals, the molds, microplastics, but most importantly, dosing accuracy. That's amazing. There was a recent brand, very well-known brand. Many women, many of my patients were using it, and they just unfortunately experienced liver failure in one of their patients, likely because of the high-dose ashwagandha.

You know, any of these particular substances, EGCG, which is the epigallic and catechol, three out of green tea. What we saw with that as well is it has this very narrow therapeutic window. So you can help a patient feel better, but if you overshoot it, you're going to be really affecting that liver. And all of a sudden you have a bunch of different herbs interacting with each other, and that's a disaster. This is why mainstream medicine is so cynical with supplements, because there's no standardization.

NSF certification, purity, and ingredient safety 17:18

like there are with prescription medicines. So our way of standardizing is with NSF, and it feels so good to have that backing. And that is why Mayo Clinic and this partnership with IM8 to set this research forward, we are so happy to with IM8 as well as future product development in that space. So this is something really important for us to highlight here, the whole NSF thing, because we live in a very toxic world, and there's been a lot of talk about our environment, our foods that we're eating, heavy metals, you know, different dyes in the food, it's all over the news recently, right?

The food here versus other countries like Canada or Europe, So when it comes to these heavy metals, this can have a very negative impact here over overall health, right doc? there is no doubt this is something we really need to be mindful of. And the molds as well. People underestimate exposure to molds in many of these sorts of products, particularly when you start to bring those greens formulas into it. As well as the herbs, particular the Ayurvedic herbs. Some of the adaptogens, some of them mushroom blends.

All of this very, very important. You know, so the science and the purity control that NSF brings is very David had mentioned the science, and that's another area that there's no competitor, there is no other product on the market that is bringing the Science to the table. And so with this original research, we spent 90% enhancement in energy and 81% improvement in endurance and 67% percent improvement and gut health. which is significant. And then about a 61% to 62% improvement in hair, skin, and nails.

Which again, I just shared that other hair skin and nail formula is the one that caused this unfortunate woman to have this liver failure, which was really, really concerning. Yeah, in a lot of these products, one of the things you mentioned is, the different ingredients that could even cause mold. I think people have to understand that. It's not just synthetic products that can bring the mold in there. Mold can actually come from natural type of ingredients that are going into the product, right?

Absolutely. This is something where I think, you know, it sometimes is a little confusing I think for a consumer because they're like, I don't want anything chemical. And you're, like well, if you actually a scientist, well everything's a chemical and water's chemical, right? So you kind of have to pick your terms. I these days things get kind batted around, people say clean ingredients and I'm like okay, does that mean simple? Because I used to run a beverage alcohol laboratory in the Napa Valley.

We did a lot of research with UC Davis. Toxins can occur naturally. And if you're like, for example, when you are not using like a pesticide or herbicide on the leaf, then the vine and the fruit have to fight the toxins somehow, and they will naturally fight that toxin with toxins they develop inside, right? And they get into the fruits. And, if your concentrating and stressing the food, you probably want to limit those natural toxins. Probably not that harmful for somebody, but when your comparing to washing off the pesticides or the herbicides, You know, it starts to look, in some cases, a pesticide or herbicide might actually be a better solution than concentrating natural toxins inside the fruit.

Of course. It's not everything. I'm not saying across the board, but that was one example, right? And so some of these things are a little confusing to a consumer because they're like, well, what should I? If you're putting it in your mouth, I think you probably want to go organic. If can wipe it off, you know. There's more room to debate it. But that was something that we just like to, you know, we're looking at from the original ingredients. We use Eurofins to give us a third party assessment on, is this what we think it is before we even put it into a batch?

And then after we put all together, blend it and, At the batch and then again at the packaging, we have NSF, which is the gold standard for certification. Make sure that what we say is in there, that nothing extra is there. And then we even go another level and go NSS certified for sport so that professional, any athlete can feel comfortable that there's gonna be no banned substances in their. That's amazing. David, let me ask you something. So when you look at, the product that's, David Beckham is part of it.

I know from being in the industry for so many years sometimes when you have an athlete behind a product people kind of feel like well I don't want to be an Athlete so so let's talk about some of that stigma that might be behind A product where people think well this is just for the person who's you know very athletic I mean this product is for The regular Joe Schmo for everybody right and it's a project. That's good for longevity and So how can you, obviously you're a branding expert, being in the different supplement businesses and everything else, how would you address that?

Yeah, I mean, look, we have athletes who love it. I would say it's for athletes too, but it is not designed necessarily for the athletes. We started with David Beckham, who was a professional athlete. He's an icon for sport, he's and icon fashion, and he is an Icon for UNICEF. A very broad brand that serves the world, very well. He was saying, hey, when I'm traveling all over the world, and I've got this duffel bag full of supplements, is there a way to simplify this and make this better? And so that's where we started.

Something that, of course, would be good for David Beckham, but that we could extend to the rest of the word. We formulated it for people as petite as Dawn and as big as me, where I think we can all feel really comfortable with what we're consuming. And sometimes I might have two a day, just because I am a bigger person. So I may have one in the morning and then one later in afternoon.

Who IM8 is for and how it supports longevity 22:48

But the idea is that we cover that baseline of nutrition. We're going to get your gut activated, we're gonna get those 16 supplements that you're typically taking, you know, into your system in a way that's really going be usable. I think the bigger thing is the synergistic effects. You know you mentioned Brian Johnson who's you know, really causing a lot of discussion around supplementation and what's in the supplements. And I think some really healthy discussion. He's also putting his body through some things that, you, know I, think are good to question, because a motorcycle isn't defined by the pieces and parts, it's defined the whole thing running together.

So you can't define a motorcyle by a spark plug. It's not just gasoline, right? You've got to have it all working together in harmony. And I think that's where the synergistic benefits are something that we really have to pay attention to, like Dawn was talking about, where we wanna make sure, one, we're doing no harm, and two, that were getting some surprising benefits for different people with different needs states. When I was taking to this number one tennis player, she was using it for the energetic benefits and the endurance benefits.

Her partner, who's also a former pro, he told me, I'm sleeping better. You know, those two things would seem to be at odds, but they had different need states, and so their bodies responding differently. And I think that's one of the benefits of having such a broad supplement is we're not going to pin down every benefit. We're going see a lot of anecdotal differences. People who have blood sugar regulation issues are saying, hey, I'm seeing a big impact in my blood-sugar regulation. Absolutely. Probably from the fiber, probably from a number of things.

CoQ10, Don will have better ideas than I do on this. But when we see a broad spectrum of people who are using it coming back to us and saying, hey, this is working for me, why is it doing that? That gives us the opportunity to then, we've had the observation, now we get to dig in and do some science and figure out why that's happening. I think that what's been really exciting for us. Absolutely. So excited and so confident in the product that we're doing a hundred of our health care workers at Mayo Clinic with a randomized controlled study.

Oh, wow. And so there's going to be extensive laboratory analysis during this time, both pre and post. Again, it'll be randomized with. A placebo. The placebo, we're going to go ahead and use the beetroot extract, which, you know, that's a nitric oxide stimulator. So you're automatically in the placebo group going, to probably make those people a little bit healthier, but there still will be enough of the statistical gap. I'm not worried about that, company that's been willing to invest that amount of financial effort towards proving the product is good, probably because they're a little concerned that a randomized controlled study won't show the benefit.

What's really exciting is Mayo Clinic in partnership with the military designed this wearable device. And we're going to use this variable device as part of the study with a particular cohort. It'll measure heart rate, heartrate variability, EKG with age monitoring. Age monitoring. So it's gonna be very cool. What's the age monitoring? Yeah, and I have to be cautious like speaking too much to it until it is actually published. Well the thing is, I'm like really big into wearables. I am more in my aura ring right now.

But I actually writing a book called Your Wellness Data that I've interviewed a lot of the people that produce wellness data. You know, interviewing people from aura rings and you know the whoop and everything else. We'll be back. My brother-in-law is the lead designer for auraing. Really? Oh that's amazing. That's very good. The things you learn on a podcast. That's great. I definitely got to talk to you about that because that's one of the ones that I really want to make sure that it's in the book.

So, you know, I got the guys from Pinoy with the VO2 Max, Prunuvo, Full Body MRI, a few different big labs. Because that is something that, talking about this stuff, when it comes to your actual wellness data, This is what allows people to really take control of their health, right? Being able to understand how your body's performing. So I wanna hear more about what you're talking about with this randomized test with 100 co-workers, the health workers, et cetera. Yeah, we're really, really excited about it.

And we know in healthcare right now, this is a time of really high burnout. Healthcare workers are working long hours. We want to have a subset of that population, definitely overnight workers that are more challenged, even with their own scheduling. So it's going to be a very provocative test, but we stand behind the product and the project development and feel very confident we'll be looking at metabolic markers. Really excited, and we will share those results with you when we get the study completed.

So as of right now, are you guys checking any biomarkers specifically related to the product and how the body would perform? So on ourselves, we have done that. But this will be the first randomized controlled study with that advanced profile of biomarker analysis that has been done for IM8. And when we look at other companies out there, I have not seen any out that have ever done a randomized control study on this caliber. So it's very exciting. What are, in your opinion, some of the top, let's say top three biomARKers that you would want to see on someone who's taken a supplement?

I really love that question. And for me, vitamin D is a big one. So vitamin-D deficiency, I see suboptimal vitamin B levels. You can really close the vitamin deficiency gap, definitely with the IM8 will probably move most people to a sufficient level with a current dosing that is in it. you also don't wanna overshoot vitamin, particularly if someone has a history of kidney stones. so you have to walk that fine line. When you select a dose for a multivitamin, you are looking at the population as a whole.

So you don't want to go so high that all of a sudden a small subset is going into toxicity, right? You have to find for the average medium to be sure that it's first do no harm. But the vitamin D dosing is 35 milligrams, which is about, you know, getting close to about 1200 IUs of the Vitamin D3, Which is very nice.

Clinical testing, biomarkers, and wearable data 28:28

The competitor to IM8, the greens, doesn't have any vitamin d in it. So it is nice that we have the vegan vitamin that is in the IM-8. That would be number one. Number two is one that's going to surprise you. And it's actually beta carotene levels. It's something that I check in my patients. With the REDS formula, I anticipate that we'll pull beta-caroten up. There's some really nice research from the early 1990s that showed that beta karatene are a wonderful surrogate for a health-related quality of life.

And so it's something that I've been following for over the past decade in my patient population. And there's a very strong correlate. So I'm really excited to go after that finding to stay pre and post intervention. If we see as we drive up that beta carotene level that we also see that health related quality of life goes up in conjunction with that. Then of course we'll be checking hemoglobin A1Cs, we will be check ApoBs and the traditional metabolic profiles that you would expect to also some benefit from.

all of the basic labs and the vitamins and minerals like zinc and selenium, I see very frequently deficiencies in both of those particular minerals whenever I'm checking labs in my patients nowadays. The type of micronutrients test that you would do on your patients, what type micro nutrients test is it? Is it in the whole blood or is looking at intracellular what's been absorbed? What is specifically? It actually depends on what the micronutrient is that we're measuring. I do all of my labs through Mayo Clinic at this time.

We are looking at even outside labs as part of IM8, as a part our longevity center, and even doing at home testing with partners globally to even look at some of these different analyses, because I have the majority of ours coming in on whole blood. But when it comes to, for example, magnesium, you want that more on red blood cell. So we do want to be mindful of where we are drawing this from when we're doing this particular testing. This laboratory testing will all be done at Mayo Clinic, actually in-house.

We want everything to have that tight quality control. And as we bring in these outside labs to even consider other analyses, we will always compare them to our in house labs. Absolutely. Does the IM8 product have K2 in it? It does. It actually does have k2. That is something on reformula. We're probably going to actually go ahead and maybe pull it up a little bit even. But right now the dose is about 35 micrograms. And so happy with where that dosing is at. Again, when it comes to K-2, particularly in people that are not getting any dairy fat or high fat animal products, which in my patient population, the cancer population most of them are plant predominant, they definitely need K2 and the role of K-2 is to kind of shuttle that calcium where it needs to go into the bone so it's not out there free floating around to cause atherogenic or calcified corner arteries is the biggest concern.

And it goes very well in conjunction with the vitamin D, right? And, it's one of those things that in the world of functional medicine, we're always preaching, hey, if you're taking vitamin, D make sure you take it with a K2. So, that just shows you the type of thought that has gone into the product. In the magnesium. You know, we have a very high quality magnesium that is in this particular product. Magnesium deficiency is probably affecting over 90% of it. Everyone should take magnesium, everyone.

Exactly. It's one of those things, like any time I take any classes with any of these top doctors in the functional medicine space, they're like, if there's on thing you have to take, it's magnesium it, that's good for your gut, its good your digestion, your circulation, and it good to your sleep. Its good like everything. And it depends on the form you're using. And this is where the thought needs to be put in it, because many supplement companies use magnesium oxide, which is going to stay in the gut.

It's going cause GI upset, and you are going excrete it. You're not getting it in to the blood where you need to get it so it can go to cellular level. So it was over 15 years ago I did my first magnesium study at Mayo Clinic with hot flashes, it's with magnesium glycinate. And, you know, people originally thought I was a little crazy, like, why are you looking? And sure enough, yes, I would see this regular trend with my patients that they were feeling better, more relaxed, and their hot flashes went away.

I wasn't giving it to them for hot flash, but all of a sudden they started coming in and saying hot flushes are gone. So it's the first thing we use at Mayo Clinic for a hot-flash management, actually, is magnesium glycinate. The magnesium is beautifully absorbed, so it is not causing the problem of hanging out in the GI tract, causing all that GI distress. that the common magnesium citrates and magnesium oxides are doing. It's not to say that people can't take those other forms, it's just we wanna use a more bioavailable form so it goes where it should be going.

Of course. Doc, let me ask you this. A lot of the listeners and viewers of podcast, they take control of their health and they're taking all kinds of different supplements. How do you deal with people that want to start utilizing or trying the IM8 product but have already These drawers of vitamins and minerals and everything else, you know, like because most people in their heads are going to say, well, I don't want to overdo it, right? I want it just supplement to supplement and just take a bunch of other supplements.

Like, is there a transition that people should do when they want I switch them immediately over and they're so excited not to have to take those pills anymore. So it's really been exciting. I had a patient recently, it was very cute. She had just finished her breast cancer treatment. Her son was visiting and he brings out this basket and I'm not kidding. It was probably 75 bottles. And I said, I have a solution for you. Once your mom's done with radiation, your Mom could start this, but you need to start it now." And so he sent me a message back and he's really excited he received it.

And he was so happy because he travels. He's like, you're kidding. I didn't know this would be an option. So yes, I think it's something that the patients that I've worked with and their families are really happy to get rid of all those bottles. Wives are so that they don't have to have all these bottles on their countertop anymore with all the clutter. That's nice as well. It saves money. When you're buying 16 different bottles, that is a very expensive investment when you are buying that many bottles.

So it's nice to have one stop shops. And Dr. you just extremely passionate with what you doing and you can just feel the vibration, the energy that comes off of you. You have your own success story. I mean you a survivor yourself. Yeah. so I want to talk about that because I think that's part of why you so passionate about helping people take control of their health. Thank you so much Sam and you're exactly right, you know my purpose in life is really to help others attain their vitality during chronic illness, massive health adversity, and then flourish after.

And I've been able to just, I think, really elegantly demonstrate that. It just is truly blissful to be at this point in my life to see the same thing in the patients. Because I'm just one person sitting here, but I see this same level of vital in patients, But it was a few weeks into medical school, that I wasn't feeling well. I was healthy my entire life. My parents raised me very healthy. It was just, we were, We loved it. As four years old, like I shared with you, I loved longevity medicine.

I love being healthy, my favorite childhood memory was truly going to the health food store. So I was this really unique child, but I would read health extensions in the seventh grade. And so I really was into this stuff early on. When Danny called me before him, and I'm like, i'm your girl. There's no one else. No one can touch me, trust me. Super exciting, selfishly I get to help Create and co-create, you know the solutions that I've been dreaming of for my entire life, but Wasn't feeling good and couldn't figure it out and I saw several doctors and they said it was even in my head So I collapsed on my way home from medical

Dr. Musilum's health journey and transplant recovery 35:48

school and it's diagnosed a stage four diffuse larger B-cell lymphoma I was given three months to live without treatment. This is in 2000 and 20 months live with treatment I had chemo vomero transplant radiation And I'm scared And then, unfortunately, though, in 2003, after having very advanced treatments, this was before the rituximab, which is a little more of a targeted therapy for lymphomas, was available. They had to do radiation right to my chest because I had a 16 centimeter mass that was wrapped around my heart.

and compressing my great vessels. That's why I collapsed. I couldn't get any blood up to the brain. So obviously the radiation had to go right to heart. Shortly after my treatment, I went into cardiogenic shock and I was diagnosed with advanced heart failure with an ejection fraction of 8%. So I lived with heart failure actually for 18 years, 18 from the year 2003. And during that time, I had a near death experience in 2016 at a cardiac arrest with an a systole and a four minute near-death experience.

Following that, that was in two thousand sixteen, they just no longer could really help my heart with any other procedure. So it was listed for heart transplant. And I was given the gift of life in 2021, a heart transplant on February 5th. So it's pretty exciting. It is incredible. You know, so I lived 18 years and I still really I think had a normal vital, I did pretty well, but life was so hard. I mean, it was like I was just living with such resistance, and I didn't realize it until now. And now my life is effortless.

It's just so easy. So I figured how could I really help to convey this message of how important it is. God has a plan for you. Oh, for sure. I mean, it really is, that's amazing. It's such a blessing. And you're doing it. You're taking that plan, you are making your mission out of it, so. Well, its just been a joy, and I thought to myself, Sometimes you have to do something extraordinary to have people listen. And so I said, I'll run a marathon on my one-year heart transplant anniversary, because no one had done that.

Wow. So as I'm coming out of my heart transplants, it took me a few days before they can even extubate me. I was very sick going into the transplant. I thought you may have promised something that is not going to happen. I couldn't even walk. My calf muscles were indented. It was so deconditioned. And I was in the hospital for a month after my transplant. Every moment I could, after the transplant, I would walk and ask the nurses, hey, can you unhook me? Those poor nurses are just saints. They helped me.

Every hour get out of that bed just keep on walking and walking walking And I kept on doing that more and more And started kind of trotting and then jogging and running and so I ran a full marathon on my one-year heart transplant That is amazing. It was amazing and David you run too, right? Yeah, I do I 30 years ago I used to be more competitive I decided this year that I wanted to change things up and you need a big hairy audacious goal to Change things typically so I said, you know, I'm gonna do a marathon again and I back into it.

That's amazing. So I am looking to get into running. Our producer here, Lowe's, he's got a running club. It's called No Sleep Running Club. He's here out of Miami. Which he has a lot of celebrities that they get together and people in the community and they go running and, they're doing, what is it Lows, the jelly roll thing over here on the West Coast? Oh yeah, that's his loser 5k, whatever, yeah yeah. I've heard about that, sounds exciting. It's amazing. So yeah, after the show, we definitely gotta, I want you guys to see what he has going on.

And it's something that we've been following closely. I've the following close with Los because he's a big part of the team. Right. Hearing you, guys, that you run, maybe it is something we all do together. We are gonna do this. This is great. It is funny, there's this surf, so I live in Laguna Beach primarily, it where a lot of surf brands come out of Stussy and brands like Quicksilver and Billabong, et cetera, land in the US there. And a lot of these brands are now transitioning to run clubs. Like yesterday I was telling Don, I went for a seven mile run or six mile and then worked out in the gym and I'm running home and there were amazing waves so I want for surf for couple hours.

I said I am exhausted by the end of it. But I think that's kind of the fun of it is people are starting to realize you can't just do one thing. Even just running at my age, I'd probably waste away and get a little thin. So I'm going to the gym and doing some resistance training, obviously surfing still because I love that, and then ski and run. And I that combination gives you that functional muscle. One of our athletes, Ken Rideout, who's in his 50s, he's won the Gobies, won these ultra marathons.

He's got this Massachusetts accent, which is amazing, but he's like, why are people just working out? What are they gonna win, best in the gym? And you see some of that on Instagram where I much prefer working for something that you're gonna deeply enjoy doing in nature, right? of running and the fun of surfing, et cetera. My whole thing has always been like going mountain biking. I love just going out, being in nature and just getting on the trails and connect with nature. Just be out there, getting the heart going.

But amazing stuff, amazing. So right now we have a big movement that's happening called the Maha Movement. Make America Healthy Again. How does everything that you guys are doing fit into the whole Maja Movement? What do you guys think about the MAHA movement? You know, for me, you know my practice is food is medicine. So for, me it fits perfect. We are also working on a regenerative farm project at Mayo Clinic for this very reason to help not just have a solution for the micronutrient deficiencies, these nutrient gaps, but also to helping.

This is in partnership with Danny and Pernetix and IMA that in support of what we really want to do beyond this is, hey, let's try to figure out how can we make the produce better? So we're doing an amazing project at Mayo Clinic. It's in development at this point that is AI technology driven regenerative farming. So more to come on that. Again, a lot of this stuff is still in conversation that we are really excited to make these major announcements. Um, it's a little too early to Make all the detailed announcements, but we Are really exciting to have this partnership and ongoing support with IM8 in this space.

No, I think that's right. It's a holistic approach. There is no silver bullet. I wish I could say that IM8 was a silver-bullet, but it's really not. Right? It is a component, and we need to look at the whole person. You've both been talking about that really well. When I lived in Germany, we noticed that things that are what they call bio are organic. We take these carrots home. And I've never seen a carrot go bad in the United States of America. But carrots will go back in your fridge after maybe a couple of weeks in German.

And I think there's this, we live in France part of the year now, too. And, you know, I can eat bread in france. I don't feel bloated. Don't put on weight. It just feels good. But they don' have the same modified grains that we do. You know it's baked fresh where you get it. There's not a lot of preservatives in it I Think there is a whole movement to get back to just eating better and finding more nutrient dense foods and find ways to grow it better so we're getting what we think we are getting in the fruits and vegetables and the whole grains and proteins that were taking.

But I think all of those things work together and, you know, look, we've got to move our bodies. We've gotta eat better. we gotta get the sleep. And we were talking about Auraring. I mean, I've lost two of them. But the thing that I noticed, and I'm now in my 50s, was my sleep wasn't always easy to get. When you wear an Aurering or some kind of a whoop or someone with these devices, it's gonna tell you that you're not sleeping well. And it doesn't necessarily fix it, but it brings it to our attention.

And I think, you know, the things that we measure, we manage, right? And so the more that can measure things, when we were talking, were spending a lot of time with Function Health, talking to them about what they're doing,

Running, MAHA, and the future of preventive health 43:58

they don't- Yeah, Mark Hyman and yeah, that's the whole team there. Look, what I love about Funktion Health is they are helping people get not only a baseline measurement, But ongoing measurements, because a base line will tell you, what you did in the past, but it won't tell you how you're interacting with your environment and your nutrition as you move through life, right? And if anyone who's ever gone to see a doctor, you know, if you are going to have your blood pressure measured and you going have you cholesterol measured, and all of those key markers, You probably want to make sure that you on your best behavior the night before.

And you probably wanna make that sure you not having a couple shots of espresso before you sit down in that chair to get have a blood draw or have blood your pressure taken. There's a lot of those things, a lotta those environmental factors that if you're only taking one snapshot at one time, it's not necessarily a great indicator of your overall picture. And so, coming into a longevity clinic and getting those regularly updated measurements where you can start to see the impact and start the see difference that, hey, maybe I shouldn't be drinking all the time.

That was a big one for me. I was very good social drinker. Still am, but I've learned that I probably need to just drink a whole lot less. And you think that being able to actually see that data and trending it totally has changed your mind for me it has because because you're I'm looking at I Start to realize how important sleep is how much better I feel when I have a great night's sleep as an example When I've hydrated well, you know when a drink my magnesium in the morning. I'd have magnesium Drink that I like in a morning But when you're well hydrated, when sleep well, eating well and not partying all the time, you just feel better.

And I think you start to realize, those things were fun when I was younger maybe for a period of time. But it's not a way to live. So it starts to help you see the benefits and the difference. We're very lucky living in Laguna Beach because we don't have an obesity problem there. Most people who live there are very active. We eat very well. I mean, we eat, you know, kind of the way the rest of United States is starting to eat now where it's, in the 70s we had a thing called the stand, which, was doing juicing and all of these vitamins, through fruit and vegetables.

And I think, you know, I'm always thinking, how do we help people embrace this and not feel like they're missing something? Of course. I mean, when somebody stops drinking or stops using drugs, it's not about not doing the thing. It's more about what are you going to replace that hole in your life with, with something much better than what you were doing before? Exactly. And when you can feel better doing something else, when can you feel the improvement in your life, there's no reason to go back.

And so I think with, again, getting back to IMA, one of the things that we were trying to do is not just say, hey, this is better for you. Hey, look at our components and parts. Look at how this whole thing works in our life. You tell us what it's doing for you. I don't want to make a big claim because it is going to be a little different for everybody with the synergistic benefits. Yes, we do have clinical doses. We are measuring this with Eurofins and NSF to ensure that it has what we say is in it.

But ultimately, it affects your life and actually makes your lives better. That is the only thing that really matters. And it will be different because of those synergic benefits for everyone. Absolutely. As we wrap up here, Doc, If there's someone listening right now and they resonate with everything that we've said, what is one thing that you can leave them with for them to take that step forward? Yeah, thank you, Sam. Thank you for having us here. You know, you have to show it for yourself. Life is not easy, but you have to show up for yourself.

You have make sure that you're eating nutritiously. This is a not a solution for that. So you've got to get rid of the ultra-processed foods. you got eat more vegetables and fruits because of like we talked about some of modern day farming techniques using a supplement like IMA to close those nutrient gaps is very important. And then everyone wants to feel a little bit better than just average. and so then you those additional ingredients and they're like the CoQ10. to really help that energy and that support of the body.

And so I really feel that that would be my biggest message is being sure to just move the buddy regularly, avoid those toxic substances, really take interest in getting adequate sleep. I just don't think enough people put value on health. until they've had health adversity strike. So you want to be proactive and stay healthy for the rest of your life. Don't wait for a diagnosis to come your way. Do that before the case. Absolutely. David, you wanna add anything to that? I don't think there's a way to top Don Moose Salem, so I'm just going to say thank you for having us today.

It's been really powerful. I love listening to your podcast. There's so many new ways to live healthier that we're discovering. And I think what's sort of exciting about the Maha movement is your there's no stone left unturned. You're looking broadly, you're digging deep, your finding some things that can really help people and allowing people to discover these new paths to health and wellness that maybe we didn't know about before. And that's the best part of living in 2025. I love it, I loved it.

Where can people find you guys? So im8health.com is our website for IM8 and we're IM 8 health on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok. Alright, so guys, it was a pleasure having you guys on the podcast and we're definitely going to share all of this and all the links with everyone here and I'm excited to see what there is to come and i know there's a lot to Come with ima and We're all gonna stay tuned to figure it out. Thank you. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks a lots Guys, as you guys heard, Doc said it, you gotta show up for yourself.

If not, fall in that whole reactive portion of medicine. You have to be proactive. Show up. Make sure you follow these guys. Look at the product. There's a lot of science behind it and they got a lotta great things cooking. All right, make sure follow, subscribe, tap, share, do all that fun stuff and we'll see you for the next one.