Healing Chronic Illness with Energy, Resonance, & Psychology

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, thank you.

Eric Gordon, M.D. 

Its wonderful.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

It’s a pleasure to be here, Eric. Let me share my screen and we can go from there. Okay, let’s see if we can make that work, yeah. So I decided to to give a little overview of some of the things that I’m into and the principles, so that will provide us a basis for our conversation. And so we’re really talking about The Role of Small amounts of Energy and The Aspect of Frequency of That Energy and Healing. So the idea here is that we put in a small amount of, in this case, electromagnetic energy, light, current, magnetism into the body and the brain and we get out an output that we desire, that we have desired states and traits that we are aiming for in the context of improving function, performance and healing.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Okay, and what I really like here is that you’re showing that the energy input can be in multiple forms.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yes, and it’s a low level of energy, so that’s important that one way that we find that this is not damaging to the system is that it’s a very low amount of energy. You only need a low amount of energy if you do it at the right frequency. That’s what’s interesting. You don’t need to whack the system with a large amount of like a big hammer, just a small amount.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

So here’s some examples of devices that are clinically used. And so here’s infrared light shining into the skull on the left. Here’s the light stem device, that’s like flashes light in the eyes and plays tones. Here’s a magnetic coil device. Here’s a magnetic coil device. Here’s a direct current device that can control battery. An ultrasound device. And electrical frequency device. So here are a lot of possibilities, these are just some. So the simplest form of doing it is to just essentially hook a battery to the brain, no frequency, just current flows from positive to negative, like we use sponges, but it’s controlled so it does not damage the body. It’s a very low amount of current in the order of 1000th of an ampere. And it’s verysafe. Here’s a huge paper in 2016, by all the major people in the field talking about there have been no major medical side effects. It’s highly non-invasive they say provided it’s used at these low levels.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

All right.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Here’s what’s interesting is that whether you add current or light, it literally adds energy to the system, it feeds the system. So even if you just put some current into the body of a low amount of microamperes, you get increased ATP production, you get increased protein synthesis, you get increased amino acid transport and increased cell signaling. And so this is from a paper by Cheng on “The Effects of Current of Rat Skin” and it’s similar in other animals as well. And we find that the application of direct current to the skull, to the brain can increase both the speed of learning as well as the ceiling of learning. 

So you can do it while you’re doing a task and you learn better. So this is also used for, for example, for mood regulation, for depression you can place electrodes on certain locations on the head, and there’s been many studies showing good results for improving mood, which can be even something that can be done at home. And I’ve used it for over 15 years with people in supervised use at home, along with other methods, along with therapeutic methods. It can be used even for meditation, that’s being researched now, to calm the system. So a similar principle applies when we add light, in particular, infrared light. 

Infrared light is very healing for the system and it’s becoming one more popular in various devices, all around the country. And when you add infrared light to tissues, it has a number of beneficial effects. It primarily acts on the mitochondria, to the energy powerhouses of the cell and it affects the respiration chain. It’s absorbed by an enzyme, cytochrome c oxidase and that then donates electrons and helps to create ATP, which is the energy molecule in the cell. So literally it’s like food you add light and you get energy to operate the cell. And it has other beneficial effects. That whole process of creating reactive oxygen species in a beneficial amounts releases nitric oxide from the cell, which is toxic to the cell, into the bloodstream, which has beneficial in the bloodstream. And overall can improve ways for dilation, circulation, reduce inflammation and improve positive cell signaling that protects the cell. So these functions of repairing, restoring and enhancing the cells by certain frequencies of light, infrared light, can be used to heal various tissues in the body.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, go ahead.

Well, let me just, have you found different frequencies of light for different tissues or?

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, so that the other way we put… There’s two frequencies here that are involved, one is the frequency of the light and the other is if you pulse the light at certain frequency, so goes on and off like five times a second, 10 times a second, 20 times, 40 times a second. That, so there’s two different frequencies. The basic frequency of the light is a narrow range because only a narrow range of light, I didn’t have put in that slide here, narrow range of light really penetrates the tissues. And so if the wavelength is too large then it doesn’t penetrate deep enough.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Okay.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

So you use that certain range, but beyond that then you have other effects from pulsing the light, so you get two different kinds of things.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right, and this is mostly a red light or?

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, so I said it’s a near infrared light-

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

And, yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Okay.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Okay, and then similarly, you can pulse the current at different frequencies with different shapes and then we’ll have different effects in the body. It’s a huge field unexplored really as to what these different current frequencies and what locations and what shapes to use. So certainly you can change the way the brain functions with this by directly applying the light of the current to the brain. And so we know that the brain produces, it operates as an electrical machine as well with different range of frequencies known as delta, theta, alpha, beta and gamma. And when you do biofeedback with the brain, you can change the amount of any particular frequency which changes brain function and performance. Or if you apply current, you can also change the frequency, the major frequencies in the brain, or if you apply pulsed light. So we’re gonna talk about that now, hmm.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Okay. It seems like there’s a huge, I mean, the possibilities of this modality are just amazing. You can change them so many different ways.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, exactly. So I had, yeah, it’s like a frontier science really. It’s like, this is frontier.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, exactly. So for example, you know, if you pulse infrared, it will in entrain the brain into certain frequencies. So if you pulse it, say 40 times a second, and you get an increase at 40 times a second, but also at 10 and 20, but if you pulse it at 10, you get to increase at 10, a large increase at 10, but also some increases higher than 10. So this is a study done by a company that I worked at, the Vielight that makes this kind of a headset that pulses infrared light LEDs into the brain and into the nose. So they showed that, yes, indeed, you can do that. 

So that’s a Vielight device that I have used for over a decade in my practice to help people heal from brain injuries and to improve performance and to deal with cognitive decline due to various reasons like aging. And it’s very simple you just pulse infrared light into the brain and well, we can talk about what frequencies we might use. So you see that there’re major therapeutic effects of these modalities, for example, depression for tDCS and photobiomodulation, which is another term for using infrared light to modulate a function in the body for cognitive performance and they can be supervised home use. And so here’s an interesting study that came on just a few years ago. And this was in 2016 in MIT lab, they passed the actual fluorescent lights on these Alzheimer model mice so these mice are bred to have Alzheimer’s and if you pulse their cage lights at 40 Hertz, you find out that you can activate the microglia in the brain as well as reduced plaque. So you start to move towards a cure of Alzheimer’s or at least reduce the load of the Alzheimer’s.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Wow, 40 Hertz seems to be a very interesting number .

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, because it’s not other, you know, other frequencies did not work, only 40 Hertz worked.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, no, but we see it in what, are you gonna be talking about .

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, we’ll see later when I talk about frequency specific microcurrent, it’s the same number that reduces inflammation in the body.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

And that’s what we talk about right and chronic disease, it’s all about inflammation.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yes.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

And so interestingly enough, that’s what they found, particularly in the visual context, which stays light affected there was a decrease in the plaque. So the Vielight company has been using these 40 Hertz flickering headsets for a long time now and selling them, especially because they have a very good profile of, you know, there’s no side effects that can be sold to consumers and you can buy them right now, you can buy a headset that flickers at 40 Hertz and use it on your head. And the infrared light frequency is 810 nanometers, which is like a good frequency for penetrating the tissues and the skull. So believe it or not, your hair and skull is pervious to light, light gets in there.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Wow!

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Right now, as you’re sitting in the room light’s getting into your skull. And so we call that

trans-Cranial photobiomodulation, it’s not a large amount, but it’s enough to make a difference in your functioning.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yes.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

So currently, they actually have clinical trials going on for Alzheimer’s disease, looking for FDA approval. And here’s an example of other results, for example, PTSD, they showed that using this device after 12 weeks the cognition scores improved in the photobiomodulation group but declined in the usual care group. And so base studies are going on about this. And I have been using it in my clinical practice for over 10 years with good results with people.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

And this is something I said we’ll be talking about at the end the line is just how this relates to either the sometimes damage or sometimes just habit patterns of what, of the brain fog that develops after chronic illness and micro toxin exposure, so.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Exactly. So that’s one really good use for it to deal with issues like brain fog. And so studies show that both current and light modulation can improve speed and ceiling of learning and can be added to other interventions. So here’s an example of a more of an experimental version that I’ve been using for a study on meditation to improve meditation states. And this one, the particular aspect of this one, which will become available soon is that it can go up to very high frequencies, which are connected with higher states of consciousness. So I’m not going to go into details on that right now, but that’s a really fun thing that I’m doing.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yes.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

And here’s another company I’m working with and it’s a startup that’s gonna come up with a special kind of headset device with headphones and built in LEDs and electrodes to pick up your EEG. So you can train your brain with biofeedback on the EEG, otherwise called neurofeedback as well as it will support your brain functioning and your training with flashing LEDs and provide you feedback through the ears and through your iPhone app. Its a good device which also will help you to do biofeedback on your heart rate. 

So let me go ahead and talk a little bit about how about if you applied pulse electrical current to the body and to the brain. And for that I’m going to refer to the system called Frequency Specific Microcurrent, which is being taught by Carolyn McMakin, she has a book out called “The Resonance Effect”. And what I like about the system is that it’s highly evidence-based, it’s clinical evidence-based, there’s not a lot of studies on it which is an issue in the whole field, but we have a lot of clinical evidence that we find repeatable results when we use this, use the system and it’s non-proprietary knowledge base anybody can learn it, try it, test it out for yourself. And we have a big group of clinicians that use it together and share outcomes and results and strategies.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, we have been using FSM in the office, I took the first course with her, I think in 2006 or seven. And so…

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

It’s been a big part of our practice and we have been, yeah, just amazed by the results, you know, of this on multiple, multiple aspects of healing and allowing the body to find its center again, you know, it’s so much about, you know, we get thrown off by life stresses and by illnesses and it’s just getting back to your balance point. Very, very, very powerful device.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, well said, I think that one of the things that it’s, what I’m gonna talk about more of, is just what you said is how this kind of system can reset tissue functioning back to normal after trauma of any kind physical, emotional, yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yes, yeah, this is-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

So what this system does is to actually use two waves, two waves that interfere together to produce some very specific results. So this list called the Van Gelder list after physician Van Gelder, who was the one that introduced Carolyn to this and it has two frequencies that are used together. And one frequency is called the condition frequency, which has certain effects on all tissues. For example, 40 Hertz is a frequency that is used in the system to reduce inflammation anywhere in the body.Once again, as you said earlier, 40 Hertz shows up in completely independently from anything that the MIT people knew about or did, this is being used already for decades in this not so well-known system. And 9 Hertz is used to reduce allergy, 13 Hertz can help to dissolve scarring in the tissue, 970 to release emotion and so on. And then you have certain frequencies that help to select for certain tissues. So like 10 Hertz selects the spinal cord, 116 Hertz selects the immune system and so on. So for example, 40 and 10 together reduce inflammation in the spinal cord, quite specific, 13 and 142 together reduce scarring in the fascia. It would be quite useful, you might think.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Hmm, yes.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

And so just quick, a go-to on the Power of The System. So another best, a little clinical studies on this is how Carolyn’s work on use of frequencies for the microcurrent for fibromyalgia. So the typical fibromyalgia pattern of soreness in the body, and if you apply the current two channels of it, you can apply it using bed towels or pads on the hands and the feet, like 10 spots. And in her work with fibromyalgia patients, she worked with 54 patients over a number of years, and they were all chronic, had gone to all sorts of practitioners and have not felt better. So anywhere from one to 50 years of Chronicity, she had blood sample data of six patients analyzed by major scientists at NIH, as well as the control patient and all these patients had the characteristic pain pattern of fibromyalgia with an average pain score of 7.3 out of 10, that’s quite a bit.

They were resistant to narcotic medication. So then she found that she could use FSM to treat them, but only one frequency combination reduced the pain, and that was 40 and 10, reducing inflammation in the spinal cord. And she had begun to understand that this was partly because there’s a whole subset of majors niche in fibromyalgia, which has to do with cervical trauma. When cervical trauma happens in this inflammation in the spinal cord, then later on turns into fibromyalgia and that’s why this frequency set reducing inflammation in the spinal cord is particularly effective for that condition. 

All 54 of these patients experienced pain relief, I mean, that’s pretty awesome result. The pain went down from an average of 7.3 or 7.4 to 1.3 in 90 minutes of treating with the machine. And it lasted anywhere from two hours to two weeks. So when the pain would come back then you repeat the treatment, and if you keep repeating it, 58% experience complete resolution of fibromyalgia within four months. So these are not, you know, these are not small results given that it’s such an intractable condition.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yes. And just as a aside here, one of the people who will be listening to the whole summit will find that this is a theme that I’m especially interested in that the cervical spine or lower brainstem and the cervical spine, and minor injury, and minor instability to small changes in blood flow or lymph drainage from those areas have profound effects on people who have chronic illness. I mean, it’s like that area seems to be one of the linchpins, if you will, to decide whether you’re gonna have an illness and have complete resolution or have a problem and have chronic issues afterwards. And it’s something that, you know, because that area is the domain of the neurologists it’s been very hard to get it out into the world because a lot of chiropractors of course have been well aware of this, but medical people in general have ignored because these changes are happening at the microscopic level often the vascular, there’s a little pressure on the vasculature, on the lymph system. 

And so this constant inflammation and the once it gets going we don’t have a lot of tools to help, but the neuro biofeedback world is one of those tools that I think is gonna help let us get in. And we all know that meditation helps, but for many times when this is fully going we’re gonna need to augment that and that’s something else that hopefully we’ll get to chat about more. But I just wanted to bring that again, is that the brainstem and cervical spine is a critical area to why people have persistent illness, why the body doesn’t go back to the ground state of health is because it’s getting information that there’s constant, there’s persistent danger, even after you’ve dealt with the infection or even removed the mycotoxins. And sometimes you’re not back a hundred percent, you’re still very sensitive because this area, and so go on but, and all this that we’re talking about are ways-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

I didn’t realize that you see this in all kinds of illnesses, yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

That also explains why when we treat people with this protocol, no matter what illness they have we have results just improve. You know, even if they don’t have fibromyalgia we just add this in-

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Because it just seems to deeply relax the body and as you said, probably affect that cell danger response that’s in the system.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right, healing is what, you know, we count on. What happened, the difference between chronic disease and acute disease is in acute disease the body goes through the healing processes and you get to the other side in chronic disease, you start the healing process and somewhere along the way you get stuck. And you know, that stuck point takes on a life of its own. Even the original insult can be gone, and that’s where we often forget, in medicine, we focus on this though, if you fix the original insults then walah, you’re gonna get better and that is true if the original insult is something that the body can heal from .

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

If it’s not overwhelming the body, then the body stays overwhelmed, yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right, so anyway, so and one of the important things is that the inflammation markers that you’re showing, once they stay up they tend to be a self perpetuating loop and it often takes a little outside energy. And I’ll let you take over from here, begin to rebalance us, to reboot the system is-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, that’s well said. So, yeah. So as an example of inflammation marker, and to look in one, the levels were very high in these patients and they dropped on average from 392 to 21, that’s like 18 to 20 times in a 90 minute session. you know, even pharmaceuticals don’t do that so effectively.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yes.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

And so you also had an increase in endorphins which was consistent and over a 900% increase in endorphins, we call it the “Smoosh” effect because you can just see the patient just totally relaxing and zoning out. It’s very obvious. And this happens a lot even with other treatments in the system. So let’s talk about specifically the role of frequencies and we’ll stay in the context of the system but it also applies to using pulse light. So if it’s an inflammation, so we see that 40 Hertz and 116 Hertz turns inflammation off in the immune system which is significant for all the auto immune diseases that are, you know, we constantly are dealing with these days. And 40 Hertz/Freq for any tissue turns inflammation off in that tissue, even in the presence of bacterial signals. 

So it’s a highly reliable medical signal. And certainly more research is needed to totally confirm this but we see this clinically all the time. So within minutes, you can start to turn inflammation off in the body. And of course, if you actually have an infection and you’re turning inflammation off, then you gotta treat the body with antibiotics or something, we know that from medicine, but it’s so reliable that you can sometimes diagnose an infection if you’ve been treating a person for inflammation and tissue and suddenly they get worse.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, we have seen this, absolutely. I mean, especially ’cause it’s very, very good to use FSM for inflammation after surgery because when you have a sterile injury, the inflammatory response at the body that we call the CDR1 that first step in cell danger response is not very helpful for healing if it stays going, so if we can shut that down quickly you’ll heal much better-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Much faster.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Much faster. But on the other hand, if still there was a break in sterile technique in that surgery, if there was some introduction of bacteria, especially we see this in dental things, you know, then if you run these currents you’ll see the infection flare and you’ll have to stop the 40 and I said, and treat with antibiotics it is one of those things that just, I’d like more doctors to be aware of that, that this is not magic we are dealing directly with the basic forces of how the body works. And it’s just a shame that we can’t get them to look at the evidence.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, or that we can’t find even better studies, you know, that to all of them really.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right, right, right. It’s hard to fund these, it’s hard to fund goods. People just do not understand how expensive a good study is.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Right.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, it is.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

And it’s not a pill that you’re gonna take forever, so, you know, and patent. So yeah. So then the question from our perspective really is that we know it’s effective, how is this so effective? And, you know, it’s really is going to be part of the medicine of the future. So let’s just very briefly, let’s go and look at the inflammation response and how this interferes with it. So that’s the theory anyway. So let’s say there’s a tissue injury or an infection the injured tissue signals the blood to actually bring forth, and the immune system to bring forth cells like macrophages to start to clean up process, which then secrete cytokines and these proteins then initiate a phase, a pro-inflammation phase, to deal with the infection in the injury and to start degrading the tissue matrix. 

And then later there’ll be a build up phase to finish the healing, but this is the initial phase. And the way they do that is by signaling the cells in the region. So the change to cell signaling, which turns on certain genes inside the cells, which secretes more cytokines, which are pro-inflammation cytokines like that. And so it’s actually the changes of cell signaling due to an infection to an injury that change the genetic expression inside the cell which turns on the genes that create inflammation proteins.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

If this is a picture of a cell, we have the membrane receptors that are significant in cell signaling, let’s say, pictured here. Then the cytokines like IL-1 or tumor necrosis factor alpha, will act like keys, physical keys and they will signal the cell to which their signal will be translated into other proteins such as kinesis and messenger RNA, to actually convince the DNA, to signal the DNA to produce inflammatory cytokines which are then secreted. So that’s how we understand it at a chemical level. Now, the theory is that the way the system, the FSM kind of system works or frequencies work, electromagnetic frequencies work is that they act like a wireless signal. So we have the same cell, but instead of a physical key you have a wireless key. So somehow the wireless signal will turn on and turn off the membrane receptor. And I’m also gonna look into how that can happen, but that’s what’s happening here, that we think as far as we know.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, one of these days, Sanjay, I think we’re gonna have a conversation with you, me and Jerry Polack, Dr Polack,

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yes, right.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

I think because you know, this is happening through the water, the water resonance.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, I agree.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

And the change in proteins, the three-dimensional change in protein structure with just that the change in energy. But anyway, that’s another facet .

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, that’s a whole other facet for sure because if water is structured is electrically charged and the thing is that the whole body is not really just a chemical device, it’s an electrical device.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yes.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

And so actually I’ll talk about that in the moment. We’ll have another chance to discuss it as well, but that’s a good point. So in chronic pain and autoimmune conditions and chronic illness, we have circulatory inflammation, you know, circulating inflammatory proteins, these frequencies reduce these inflammation proteins and stops them in the normal range. 

It doesn’t take them below normal, that’s what’s interesting. So if you take a, you know, something like Humira and other medical interventions, those chemicals will keep reducing inflammation below normal range, depending on your dosage and frequency and so on. But this is not that kind of intervention it’s actually affecting the cell to regulate itself by turning off the genes that had got turned off.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right. 

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

So in general, if you’re just doing this kind of treatments, there’s no risk of just getting random infections or cancer because your inflammation system is damaged or humbled by the medicine you’re taking.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right, and this is the beauty of, yeah. I mean, it’s modulation, you’re giving the body the option of response. I think that’s the big difference between most of the remedies, like, you know, verbals at appropriate doses and drugs is that the herbs often give the body just like the electrical treatments do and the energetic treatments, the option of response, it’s not a hammer, you know, drugs tend to act like hammers they go in there and they do something no matter what the meal you is.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, that’s right.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

And that is beautiful, that’s beautiful.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

So another look at how frequencies might work well, turns out that chemistry is actually a shorthand for electromagnetic interactions so that’s really the real science of it, all chemical bonds are electromagnetic in nature so when you have a molecule or two items, the items are held together electromagnetically through electromagnetic forces. So we have ionic bonds, et cetera, covalent bonds and chemistry involves making and breaking bonds. So when you actually have any reaction, chemical reactions, you’re breaking bonds and you’re making new bonds. And these reactions are actually fundamentally electromagnetic in nature. So every bond has a resonant frequency. And if you apply frequency that somehow connects to that resonant frequency then you can actually break the bond with a very low level of energy. Just like when you use enzymes you can speed up chemical reactions to a usable amount, similarly, when you apply resonant frequencies or frequencies that are related to resonant frequencies, you can speed up chemical reactions and you can make new reactions happen.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right, I think that the most dramatic of that is the old, you know, right note in the glass cracks .

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, exactly, right there, yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Okay .

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah. You know, you have a small energy input in a big shift in the outcome, or you know, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, you know, falling into the river because of the frequency of the wind, or, you know, some more current research from 2011 by Anthony Holland, up in Canada, where he used a plasma EMF device to break up cancer cells in the Petri dish and showed that if he uses these electromagnetic frequencies at a particular base frequency, along with another frequency which is the 11th harmonic, then he could start to destroy these cancer cells. You can see these slides, the cell here is breaking apart in the fourth slide, by the applications of this particular set of electromagnetic frequencies in the range of a hundred kilohertz to 300 kilohertz and the next one being times 11.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Wow.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

And so we have the frequency scarring, the 13 Hertz, which actually seems to reliably in a wide range of instances start to dissolve cross-linked bonds between cells and is used in the system for adhesions to dissolve adhesions in the body. And so they’re not used five weeks after a fresh injury because they will actually inhibit healing.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right, this is-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

And so here we have, you know, a wireless signaling that is actually operating at the level of effecting the electromagnetic bonds and in the memory and receptor proteins and signaling the cell. And so that also, you know, shows us that, yes, we are affected by electromagnetic frequencies more than we realize and it’s sort of a society has been kind of ignoring the fact and we can use them both for healing and be harmed by them and needs to be looked at.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yes, that’s another subject that we’ll be delving into some times, yeah.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

All right. So as you were talking about your friend Jerry’s work, right is talking about how water is actually structured and glad we can go into a deep dive on that and that we have wire like channels in the cell aquaporins through which water molecules travel. And we can actually view the cell itself as a liquid crystal and this is a whole new way of viewpoint of how the body functions and how healing can happen in the system to new paradigm, maybe it’s not that new, but it’s new enough in the point of view that we need to switch over to that as well

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, you know, I mean, again, a lot of these paradigms have been with us for a long time but they’d been on the back shelf. They’d been hidden, you know, the main concept that most even scientists work with they still think of the cell as this bag of liquid.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Right, its hard, its more like a crystal or gel.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yes, but and that, you know, that you would think they would have figured that out considering how many micro holes they can make in cells and stuff doesn’t leak out .

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

So now coming down to a key issue in healing, basically, is that when there’s trauma of any kind, physical, emotional, chemical then that affects, of course the membrane receptors and cell signaling and modifies the genes and cell function in a not so beneficial way. And then let’s say you remove the insult, the incident is gone, the chemical is gone, but the body has not necessarily recovered, especially as like you said earlier, if it’s overwhelmed, and so the cell memory is maintained. And so the body is now not functioning well and then that gets worse, it becomes a negative cycle, and so what we wanna do is to add a small amount of energy to the system that first gives the system more energy, because it has less energies its now functioning optimally. 

If it was optimal level, it would have more of natural energy and its respiration change in the mitochondrial function and so on. So we give it that little bit of energy so it starts to amp up it’s functioning and then frequencies that direct that energy towards resetting it back to its equilibrium, previous equilibrium state. And so we think these frequencies turn these membrane receptors on and off and they modify cell function back to normal. And when we can do that successfully then we can reverse the course of chronic illness.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, this is, you know, again, it’s just so important to always be fluid in how we look at living systems, you know, and what happens is unfortunately in medicine is that most of the focus has been on the chemicals with the biochemicals we can measure, the cytokines and we keep looking for this linear relationship with them to find the elevated cytokine that we can lower that’s gonna bring the system back to normal. And that doesn’t seem to happen because in reality, it looks like to go from the different states ’cause it, you know, when Dr. Navio who I’ll refer to often throughout these talks, he has broken down healing into a three step sickle cell, danger response, one, two and three, but basically the big black box in it is what gets the system to shift from one level to the X, from the acute injury response, which is the cell danger one to the rebuilding tissue response, which is two and to then to the reintegrating the rebuilt cell into the system, because it has to learn how to communicate with the cells around this and that’s like CDR3, but each should go from each one of these steps to fully integrate it into the body, requires a change in me and you so it’s almost like there’s a quorum sensing event you know, where like it’s not just one chemical but it’s multiple chemicals, but that’s from the chemical viewpoint. But if we look at it from the frequency, we can probably find more elegant ways of shifting it, because it is at the end of the day it’s probably a shift in the frequency that the cell is listening to or hearing that shifts the message, you know, and the chemicals are the signs, are the signposts that that’s happening but not necessarily the causes. It’s more likely it’s a more electrical event.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, actually the body is more fundamentally electromagnetic in nature that’s what we haven’t focused on and realized.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yes.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

And this is where, you know to me, it’s always exciting because I said, I came, you know, my background was from recall regular medicine, which looked at things in like, you know, A causes B and we’re gonna figure out the cause of the disease and then we’re gonna be able to treat the disease but when we have, you know, the end result by the time people have a mycotoxin exposure and have developed illness from that exposure, they have usually had multiple insults that have got their immune system to no longer be able to deal with the mycotoxin or even after we remove the mycotoxin and they’re not back a hundred percent it’s because, as you were saying before, the cell or the organ that’s involved or part of the organ that’s involved is now resonating at a different place.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Right, exactly.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

And what we need is information. And that is what I really love about all the various techniques and that you use is it really isn’t important to anymore what caused it, I mean, that is our mindset that we have, what’s the cause, but the cause is often gone and what you’re offering is a way to just play the song that will allow the healing, you know.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, exactly. So it’s really, you know, that we want to be able to, okay, yeah, we select the tissues that are most effected, maybe the whole body, if it’s, you know, we could work on the whole milia of the body, we can specifically select the tissues that are most effected and start to give them information and energy that then starts to redirect there functioning. And I have used this a lot because they work also with the brain and mood, with different mood disorders and brain injuries and cognitive function and when combined with certain supplements and this light and frequencies we can start to get really great results, you know, really improvement in people’s functioning. And so, yeah, I think that similar pattern applies to when they stuck city in the system is that we want to support the functioning of the tissues to come back to its original state and to be able to deal with the daily stresses.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah. And that is what is, you know, one of the great issues is the order of therapy, you know, I mean, like they say, you can see it in things like osteopathy, you know, what order you treat the imbalance can often determine how successful you are. You know, even though there can be four places in the body that things are off, if you treat them in the wrong order you often don’t get as good a response. And you know, what we need a lot of work in is what order to use these therapies, you know, when to start. And I’m wondering if you can, have you had any experience or glimmers of ideas, like when you use the QEEG to begin to get like, you know, where to start, you know, if you ever see something that looks just so toxic that no adding more energy isn’t a good idea?

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, exactly. You know, I think that’s really lot to learn there. Just a few starting points, right. So it depends on the presentation so, for example, if the brain function I will often start with a QEEG, which is a contact of EEG, a 19 channel EEG recording, then we then look at to see, well, how is the brain doing relative to an average brain of that age and how the deficients in the functioning are showing up in various parts of the brain and what it’s doing in terms of the signal. And so some things, you know, will become apparent. For example, if there’s more metabolic issues then the brain may not have enough energy so it’s too slow or the aptitude of the EEG is too low. Then I know that if I’m doing biofeedback the brain just doesn’t have enough metabolic energy then I’m not gonna get anywhere. 

You know, it’s like first we need to deal with that. So then the question comes, okay, let’s feed it some energy, you can give it appropriate mitochondrial health is so important. Again, something new that we’re realizing, so we can feed it with mitochondrial supplements, we can feed it light, which is, you know what I’ll do. We can feed it some direct current, if it’s certainly if mood is an issue and say, okay, well, that should help. On the other hand, if there’s still ongoing toxicity, not just the memory of it, then even that’s not going to be as helpful then you may have to detox the person. 

So we have to look at the whole picture or if we try something and it’s not working then we go back to the drawing board and look, but that’s what I love about a practice like yours is you have your stuff looking at the whole pictures and other practitioners as part of the practice like me and others, then you’re going to look at the whole profile and say, okay, where should we start? Because we see, and you can say more about this than I, but then where do I see in the whole picture there is a problem? Is there heavy metal toxicity? And is there other inflammation markers, or other deficiencies that we should address? Then we can start on retraining the system.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, no, that is always, when the patient has been ill for a while, you know, figuring out what’s on top, what level needs to be treated? You know, I always called it three-dimensional, you know, it’s like pickup sticks, you know, to me, you remove one and it might be the one that you really need to take, but if it’s not on top it might disturb the rest 

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Too much other things, yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

And you wind up with problems and I mean, this is always been the issue when people call in and they’re like what is the protocol? You know, well, the protocol, if you were healthy and you had, you know, you have Lyme disease we can give you herbs or antibiotics rife, you know, it does it, pick what you want, it’s gonna work usually, you know, but if you’ve been sick for 10 years you usually-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Its more complicated, yeah,

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Have cumulated so many compensations that each compensation has to be spoken to a little bit. But again, the beauty of using the light and the frequencies is that accepting the super sensitive the downside is very small. And even in the super sensitive, if you go gently, you’re not going to do too much, you know, you’re generally only gonna get positive results. You know, I always like to point out that, you know, years ago, when I first learned the FSM, in the old days, people really thought you could do no harm and you really can’t do harm, but if people who are super sensitive, just like any electrical-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

You throw them off balance, yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

You can throw them off balance. You know, luckily it’s a transient balance but everything has to be used with consideration-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Of the individual.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Of the individual.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, totally, it all depends.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

But the idea that we can now begin to use light and sound and electrical and low and the micro amperage current to begin to lift the brain fog that sometimes is so persistent, you know, despite the return of what looked like fairly normal energy, but the self-defense pattern is just stuck. And I’m just so impressed what the various, I mean, the modalities and I think that’s what’s so much fun of working with you is because you have more than one to dance with.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, and we do get good results with brain fog, absolutely. And then another thing that I can do depending on how a person is working with me is to also address the more psychological and spiritual factors depending on what they are open to and what I see is happening. So for example, one sequel of having any kind of trauma weather it’s toxicity or other kinds for a long time is the idea of learned helplessness. So that’s actually the psychological aspect of the cell danger response is learned helplessness. So the body’s learned that it doesn’t have enough energy and it’s trying to get things done, or it’s even trying to get help and nothing seems to be working for a while. 

You know, it’s been a year or two years or X years. And so then there’s a certain circuits that fire, they’re built-in and the idea is that it’s not gonna work. You know, certain built-in feelings of helplessness and hopelessness arise quite naturally. I mean, this is not wrong thinking it’s going to happen, those feelings are going to come. It’s a normal response to the situation. And then as we identify with it, then this becomes as habitual identity with this and it literally causes the system to stick where it is, it becomes a homeostasis. Another way, well, in my own life, because I’ve had a number of issues in the past of chronic illness as well as depression and it was until I really realized these various factors. So I used a lot of these modalities of myself, but I also worked with this whole factor of learned helplessness that I really, when I could start to see it and step out of it then and realized that that itself is like a supporting factor that keeps the system locked in a state of dysfunction.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Oh. Yes, the body learns. And we often

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah exactly, it learns, yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, we beat ourselves or the people around us will beat us on your situation and it is part of how the body, you know, slowing down and not moving is a survival mechanism.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Right.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Okay. And once it gets hooked into your system it’s not an easy one to undo and, you know, and again, and we are wired differently. There are what I call the warriors. The athletes, the people who, you know, chronic illness is probably hardest for them, because those are people who have always been willing and able to overcome physical adversity by will. You know, it doesn’t matter how hurt they are-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Like the profile of that body, they just managed to push through .

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Push through, yes. And, you know, I mean, some of us, I always say my attitude towards extreme exercises is so when’s lunch? And then other people it’s like, oh, keep going and, you know, but no matter what the personality structure is that if you’ve been ill long enough the response in your body is to be fatigued and be unable to-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, so besides the natural fatigue in the body there’s the learned fatigue, you know, and helplessness and hopelessness which is just learned in the system. And it’s not your fault or nobody’s fault it’s a natural learning in the system. And actually I developed special techniques to really deal with that. You know, we have some techniques in the trauma therapy which are good. And I came up with some of my own as well, to really, because it’s such a key factor.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah. To reboot that tendency, ’cause people have to understand just like the, you know, when you get a cold and you’re fatigued that’s the body’s response. It’s not a willful action and if you have been ill for awhile inability to think clearly or inability to believe that things are going to be different after years of them being the same is a very, very difficult switch to flip. And I’m just glad that, you know, people have been developing this and exploring this. There are so many ways that people are beginning to reach out to each other and restore hope in the body’s ability to heal and once-

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, so what is one way they do that is by seeing some examples of people who’ve getting better. I mean, we do it at all these different levels by looking at it therapeutically and using some techniques to help the body to come out of that response, as well as just what we were talking about earlier of feeding the body enough energy to get moving and then giving it the information to move in the right direction, that also gets you out of that helplessness.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, and that’s, what’s so exciting about the neuro biofeedback devices, if you use them, like, we running out of time, but one of the things we didn’t get to talk about that I’d love to just touch on is a little bit more about how the QEEG, ’cause you said it, but it was, you know, like many times it’s something that you’re so aware of it seems like, you know, obvious, but how you use the QEEG to let you know what are the signals that, you know, a system needs more energy or a signal or that it needs more direction in type of frequency, say a little bit more about how to use that.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Okay. Let me say more about that. So the basically what we do is we do an EEG recording, and then we’ll get a map of the brain and then this map, let’s see if I can share this here, Okay, one second.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

No, you’ll be fine. No, no, I’m just thinking… Oh, here we go.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Yeah, so here it is. So funny, they’ll just give you a very simple example. So this is like a kind of a map that we’ll get by doing a 19 channel recording, and then analyzing the data. And in this case, it’s actually compared with the database of information. So these colors are represented, you know, high deviations from the average. So let’s see. So for example, you have this red color and this orange color that shows that this person has high activity in the center of the brain. Oh, wait . Let me turn this off here. All right, okay. So this was a person who had some obsessive compulsive disorder and one of the ways it shows up in the brain is an overactivity in the central singulator. And it’s also affected by the emotional areas of the brain. 

And so we have this overactivity that we see, and then we say, okay, so we recognize this overactivity, we recognize that this kind of overactivity is coming from the central singulator in the limbic region. And what can we do in terms of a biofeedback or stimulation to reduce this activity which will presumably help the symptoms of anxiety and OCD. So what we might do for example, is first we correlate the symptoms with this abnormality of the QEEG. Then for example, we might press a negative electrode of DC current here, and the negative electrodes depressives activity in that area. And we find that, you know, over regular use that supports the therapeutic work of reducing the anxiety in the overthinking in the brain. And all, we might put a EEG electrode here and do biofeedback and play some games with the brain to help the brain, to train that EEG down so you get rewarded for bringing the EEG down in that area. And so the brain learns to not be overactive in that range.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Right. ‘Cause one of the things I like to point out to people is that, you know, we see marked increases in OCD, obsessive compulsive behaviors and anxiety in our patients, especially with mycotoxin responses. And it’s just part of the immune response that the inflammation in the brain sets this off, you know, like just the pretend T cells are the parts of the brain that kinda help restrain us and they are the most sensitive to both physical and toxic insults. And so we reduced the amount of gamma, the amount of quieting energy we have when we have these exposures. I mean, I think I just wanna reemphasize that so much of the emotional excesses that we see in chronic illness have to do with these direct effects of the body trying to protect itself, you know.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Okay, yeah, it has this strong metabolic kind of basis, yeah.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Yeah, and that these are, you know, we all have tended, what I call various neurotic tendencies. I mean, there’s no, I’ve never met a normal person yet, and when there’s inflammation that’s going to unmask how your body compensates to protect itself, okay. And obsessive compulsive behaviors and anxiety are just an extreme behavior of self protection. Unfortunately, it’s not a very effective one for chronic illness but those are the things everybody has to pick from, but anyways, we have to wrap up, this has just been a lot of fun, Sanjay to go over these various amazing modalities that I think if we could get these into mainstream use, but probably before we even get there, we just have to get enough, I said, enough data points. I mean, that is the thing that there’s not enough people like you out there who are using more than one of these devices. And I think it’s important for people to get the flavors of what device for what person, you know, for what issues. And yes, I look forward to your work over the next few years and hopefully we can actually begin to collect some of that data and help support that.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Sounds good to me. It’s been a pleasure.

Eric Gordon, M.D.

Oh, pleasure, thank you so much. Okay, bye bye.

Sanjay Manchanda Ph.D.

Bye.