The Gut-Skin-Hormone Connection

Introduction and Guest Welcome 0:00

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Mastering the Menopause Transition Summit. I am still your host, doctor Sharon Stills and excited, as always, to be here with you all we have. Every interview is so phenomenal, but this one is going to be extra phenomenal. I have a very special guest with us and we're going to be talking about all things skin care. We have the spa doctor in the house, which is amazing. She has a new book that just came out, so we're going to get to learn a little bit about that. And Doctor Trevor Kates is and that's your path, just like I am.

She is a bestselling author already. This is not her first book that's coming out. She's been featured on TV shows The Doctors, extra TV. She was the host of the docu series, and I was a part of hormones, health and Harmony. Hopefully you got to check that out. It was phenomenal and so she's a wealth of knowledge and we are very grateful and lucky to have her here today. So welcome to welcome to the Summit. Thank you. It's great to be here with you. Yeah. So the spa doctor, all things skin and we all want to have skin that looks like yours. So tell us, tell us.

I know you've been practicing naturopathy medicine for as long as I have. And tell us how you got into it and why and how skin became what you really dug down deep into what you focused on. Yeah, absolutely. It's fun to turn the tables here, and I interview for my hormones, health and Harmony docu series. And now you're interviewing me. And this is really fun.

Trevor Kates' Skin Health Journey 1:51

So, Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, it started off my, my journey started off when I was a kid. I had a lot of skin issues. I had eczema, mysterious bumps that would be here, a lot of rashes, a very sensitive skin, very itchy all the time. And so I had a lot of allergies and my skin was telling me all about it all the time. And so it was not only physically uncomfortable, but it was embarrassing too, because when we have issues, especially if anybody you struggle with skin on their especially on your face, it can be really debilitating and very embarrassing.

So my parents took me to see a lot of different practitioners, a lot of different types of doctors. And I was given a lot of different medications that I would either have adverse reactions to or allergic reactions to, and I just kept feeling worse because of the side effects of on the medic, you know, like an histamines and then have development allergies to certain antibiotics or different things. And thankfully my parents didn't give up. They kept searching for answers. And that's what led them to find a holistic practitioner.

And it was the one thing that turned my health around, really, my life around. Because my skin issues cleared up, I felt physically better. I didn't feel like I was a fog anymore. And I, I, you know, I also started to get a little bit more. I felt like a normal kid. I started to get some self-confidence back. But I, I remember really clearly thinking, why did I have to go through all of this to find an integrative or holistic approach? Why didn't all these other doctors tell us about this early on?

So I could have avoided a lot of suffering, and it planted a seed in my head really early, at an early age. And eventually what led me to become a nature path physician, and so grateful that I found naturopathic medicine and the path. And it's been a very rewarding career, and it was really about ten years ago. I've been in practice for 22 years, and about ten years ago I was practicing and the Waldorf Astoria Spa and I was doing a leading people through a weight loss program. And at the end of the weight loss program, they would say, doctor K, it's I'm lost weight.

I feel great. But what surprised me is my skin. I didn't know my skin could like that's good. So skin ish was were clearing up. But also they just noticed a more of a vibrancy, more of a glow, a healthier look, even a more youthful look about their skin. And so I realized that even though I had grown up with this path of understanding that skin is an outer reflection of our overall health, that a lot of people don't realize the connection, then I'll think about that connection because they go see their conventional dermatologist and they're given a topical steroid, or they're given, something else to just suppress it or they go see, an esthetician was like, well, here, try this cream or you need to use this type of makeup or, you know, let's cover it up.

Whereas I realized from a young age and what's kind of what led me to a naturopathic medical school is we've got to look at our skin differently. That is an outer reflection of our health. It's our largest organ being right on the surface of our bodies. It gives us great clues about our overall health and the root causes that are related to. This is what we really need to go after. Because when we address the root causes of our skin issues, we can address the root causes of so many other things.

You know, when we talk about nutritional deficiencies, inflammation, gut issues, hormonal imbalances, a lot of that is we balance those, we help our skin and we help so many other health issues. Love it. So speaking of the hormones and the gut, what is what is the connection. Because we, we hear that the gut is connected to the hormones and the skin and that's a reflection. But what does that really mean. Yeah. Well we have a gut. You know, we have our gut microbiome and it's really important for not only our digestion, but also for we know there's a gut brain connection, there's a gut skin connection, there's a connection with our hormones.

And so when we have these microorganisms that live in our gut and protect our gut, it, it it helps us with our brain health, our hormones, our skin, all these different other aspects of our health. And when we when it gets out of balance, when we get dysbiosis, it can create a number of issues with our hormones and with our skin.

Gut, Hormones, and Skin Microbiome 6:30

And our skin has its own microbiome, so it has its own different array of microorganisms that live on it and protect us. And I think the gut microbiome isn't getting a lot of attention, but the skin microbiome, I don't think people know as much about that. And that's actually what really part of what I learned when I was writing my first book, Clean Skin from with it. I learned more and more about this, this connection with the skin microbiome and all the things that impact our skin microbiome. And a lot of it starts from within with our gut.

So the skin microbiome, what can what should we be doing to support it. And what are the things we're doing that are harming it. Yeah. So there are when we look at our skin microbiome because it's on the outside of our body, we a lot of times we are focused on putting things on the outside, but we also want to do things from the inside. Really, the magical combination is doing both. What are we doing from the inside and what are we doing on the outside? So mistakes have to do. Let's start with those first to get those out of the way.

Mistakes have to do. Go back to your gut health. Is your gut out of balance? Because if your gut is out of it is not in a good place, your gut health, then that impacts your skin microbiome, right? And so that's one thing. Also like some of the other things inflammation, nutritional deficiencies, addressing the root causes. We've got to do that. But some of the mistakes we make for on the outside with our skin microbiome are the products that we use. And we live in a very germ of phobic society, right?

We're all like under the big cleaners and, soaps that just scrub the heck out of our faces and, well, so a lot of these cleansers actually strip our skin, and they disrupt the skin microbiome. And a lot of what is going on in our environment impacts our skin microbiome. So, the products that we use, what are the biggest mistakes people make in their skincare routines is cleansing. And we we want to cleanse our skin. That is important, but we don't want to do it in a way that harms our skin microbiome.

So what I mean by that is, you know, you have all these great microorganisms that live on your skin. So if you're using a lot of harsh like abrasive types of cleansing or exfoliants and they're really rough, that actually can damage the skin microbiome. And then if you're also using harsh cleansers that have a high or that have, really foamy kinds of stripping kinds of actions that also can disturb the, the pH of the skin that helps support the skin microbiome. Is it okay to use exfoliants sometimes or should we steer clear of them entirely?

Yeah. So what we should do, let's, let's is, what we should do, is again, from the inside out, we want to address root causes on the outside using for certainly using cleansers, but using ones that have the right patch. So there actually are cleansers that are more oil based that are better for our skin. And I know people with oilier skin get worried like, oh no, don't, don't bring any oil near me. Well, you probably just haven't used the right types of oils because plant based oils, in combination

Skincare Mistakes and Microbiome Support 10:00

with other ingredients, in the right products, it can actually be balancing to your skin and help support your skin with the balance of the oils. So, using the right kind of cleanser and then with exfoliation, like you're asking about. Absolutely. We can exfoliate, but we don't want to overdo it. So I don't recommend the brushes. And then really harsh things. We have an exfoliant at the spot after I have a, you know, part of the reason why I created the skincare line really was because, I couldn't find anything to recommend in my patients.

And here I am at the Waldorf Astoria Spa, and I'm telling them to use natural products, and they're like, no, they don't really smell good. They don't really work, that I don't really like them. And so, like, hold on, I know we can do this. Right. And so I went on a quest to go find a skincare line that was natural, clean, effective, and was so luxurious and I couldn't find one. So I decided to make my own. So, we have, a four step skincare system. We also have an exfoliant. But what I learned about Exfoliants is that most of them are too abrasive.

So we use a, we actually use a cultured pearl and grind it to the, the texture of fine sand. And then there's rose petals and plant based oils and all kinds of yummy stuff in there. And so when you use that and you don't have to use a lot of pressure, a lot of times people are just trying to get in there and they're really exfoliating. You're actually can disrupt your skin microbiome, and you can impact the collagen of your skin to over time. So, I have a bunch of questions. So what? So I want to know your because I was like, do I have to go throw out my exfoliant when we get.

Oh, so what I want to know about your skincare line. So you said you have a four, so can you take us through the four steps and what they are? Because I was going to ask you, like, what do you do? What's the forever skincare regime? Because we want to have glowing skin like you. Thank you. So I so the four step skincare system is a cleanser, an antioxidant serum, a light moisturizer and a plant based oil blend. So there are four steps. And I wanted to keep it simple. First of all, I don't like an overly complicated skincare system.

I know that some people, some women really love all their products, but I wanted to keep it simple. And because I think they're in the skincare space, we can over complicate things. We can have, you know, the eye cream for this and a cream for that and a toner and this and or that and all these kinds of things. And it doesn't have to be that complicated. And so the so the cleanser that I use is an oil based cleanser and it has a mild acidity to it. So are the research shows that our skin does best with mild acidity, and that if we use products with a pH over 5.5, it actually it can be damaging to our skin, to our skin microbiome and create more issues.

Premature aging, breakouts, a number of things. So that's what helps support the skin microbiome is that that mild acidity of the skin. And so having a full system that does that. So then this that if you use a good cleanser you actually don't need a toner. A lot of women will use a toner because they're they're the pH of their cleanser is so high. The toner brings a pH back, or their cleanser isn't fully getting all their makeup or whatever off. So then they use a toner to remove whatever is still the residual.

So if you have a good cleanser, you don't need a toner. That's my my feeling. So then we have an antioxidant serum which with serums away there may they they're designed to soak up into the skin really easily. And that's when you can get all the great antioxidants and your skin again, making sure that it's and the mild acidity. So 4.6 to 5 is what I like to see for face products. And again, most products are over 5.5. You can use a pH strip. Just test your products. So that's an easy thing to do.

And then step three again is our moisturizer a light moisturizer. Because we also have a step for our glow boost, which is a plant based oil blend. That way you can blend it and you can mix those two together. You can make it as light or as heavy as you want, but it is. They're so packed full of antioxidant rich plant based oils like sea buckthorn, fruit oil and apricot kernel oil and pomegranate seed oil, raspberry seed oil, all these really great plant based oils that are rich and Antioch's evidence and these omegas that our skin needs.

Oh, I want like sign me up now. We're like it's simple. I for the longest time never put anything on my face. And then I turned 50 and I thought, oh, I probably should start doing things.

Simple Skincare Routine and Exfoliation 15:00

But now I'm like into powders and potions, but I never got to. I love that I'm going to take a pH and check it because, you know, all we hear about is our alkaline, alkaline, alkaline. But there are areas like our stomach and our vagina. And now you're hearing our skin that actually acidity is the way to go. Right? And one one caveat on that is that if a product is 100% oil, you can't test a patch on it. So just just reminder on that. Like if you're using a face, well, you're not going to check the page on that.

But all your other products should have mild acidity. So collagen you brought up college and and that that's such a big topic. So what do you recommend for women to improve their collagen and reduce wrinkles and that. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Collagen is so important because it gives our skin that texture, that firmness, the ad that we have. And you then it starts to decline unfortunately, as we age. But the other things that break it down faster are, also age for speed up the aging process in other ways, like oxidative damage is one of the biggest, aging accelerators, also blood sugar.

So we want to be mindful of glycation. And so if we're if we want to avoid eating a lot of, foods that cause our blood sugar to spike, because when our blood sugar increases, we have a lot of increase in blood sugar. It creates this glycation issues in the body. And that means that glucose will bind to proteins in the body. And in the case of skin, we're talking about collagen. And so glucose will bind to collagen and make it rigid less elastic. So that leads to more of that, sagging skin wrinkles and that college and breakdown.

So we want to really be mindful of what we're eating, what we're putting in our bodies, and instead doing things that are rich in antioxidants because antioxidants will help protect against that oxidative damage that's occurring. So we want to do things that support our natural collagen production. We want to do things that prevent oxidative damage. We also and then on the outside, we want to think about what we're doing as well. So using using some sun protection is important because that also will break down collagen.

And then also think about the toxins and the outside. What are you getting. What are you getting internally. And then what are you getting externally. And what can you do to kind of protect your face and your skin using antioxidants in and and products is is very helpful. I also think that getting certain nutrients that you're eating, like getting lots of vitamin C, because we need vitamin C for our, collagen production. So and it's also an antioxidant. So that's great. And then also some people will like to take a collagen peptide supplement.

I think that can be great for people who what that additional support. Or also you can get things like, gelatin or bone broth that are have our food sources of collagen. So you mentioned sun protection and that's I'm like, all right, I have a skin expert here. I'm going to ask for all the other skin questions. I've written down a list. So what are your views on the sun and is any sun okay? Are you always wearing sunscreen and what kind of sunscreen? Because I know there's a lot of toxic ones out there.

Is there a good one you recommend? Yeah, absolutely. It's a really important question because the sun is actually good for us. We need sunshine. It helps us with our vitamin D levels. So when the sun hits our skin, that's what helps with our vitamin D levels. And vitamin D is a pro hormone. It helps us with our other hormones. There's so many benefits of vitamin D for our bodies and it does help with our skin too. And so we do want some sun exposure. But I like to think of it as, you know, where do you where are you getting the most amount of sun and really focus on that.

And when it when are you getting the most amount of sun? So depending upon it also varies depending on where you live and, and your skin tone and kind of your lifestyle. So factors like so for me I'm fair skin. You and I are a fair skin. So we don't need as much sun exposure to get vitamin D. But for someone who has more pigment in their skin, they're going to need more, sun exposure to get their vitamin D levels.

Collagen, Aging, and Sun Protection 19:30

But we also, we're all susceptible to, damage from the sun's rays and increasing our risk for premature aging and also for skin cancer. So we all want to be mindful of that. And then also depending upon where you live, if so, I live in Park City, Utah. We're really close to the sun, so we need to be really particularly careful at high altitude of wearing a lot of sun protection. But someone that lives closer to sea level may not, you know, have to have to worry quite as much about that. Also, the time of year.

What is it? You know, spring and summer when there's when the sun is closer to us, that those are times that we want to be particularly careful, too. We're also tend to be outside more. And the areas where we get the most amount of sun exposure year round our face, our neck and the tops of our hands. And remember, when you get UV exposure, it's there are different types and UVA can still go through glass. So when you're driving your car, it can still the UVA rays, which are actually the most the most related to aging UVA aging.

Remember that way? And so you're getting a lot of these rays through the window. So I think it's actually a pretty good idea to wear sunscreen, especially on your face, your neck, and the tops of your hands. Now, we can still get some unexposed skin, where to get our vitamin D and our arms and our legs. And we can also go get our vitamin D levels tested so we can know if we need that extra, a little extra sunlight, or we want to take a supplement, depending upon what our levels show for us. So when it comes to protection, what I tell people is wear hats where wear clothing that's actually going to be the best thing.

And then thinking about when you're going in the sun. So trying to avoid the middle of the day when the sun is the strongest, trying to do. If you're going to plan something outdoors, try and do it in the morning or later in the day. Like that's kind of what I try to do. And park of it is sometimes it is always work that way. Are you the only time is to go out in the middle of the day, because there's a break in the clouds and you want to get out there. So wear your hat, wear your sunglasses, wear cover ups, and then use a sunscreen that is zinc oxide based.

That is much better than the chemical sunscreen. So the chemical sunscreens are what happens if you put them on. They create a chemical reaction in your skin, whereas the where some of these zinc oxide or mineral based sunscreens will actually create more of a block on the skin they're create, it's a little bit of a different kind of reaction. So we want to, use zinc oxide because it I and you know, I think it gives us better protection. Also the chemical sunscreens are known to contain different endocrine disrupting chemicals.

So ingredients like oxybenzone is a known endocrine disrupting chemical. I talk a lot about this in the docu series. I talk a lot about this. People are like, why did you go from skin to hormones? This is one of the reasons is because a lot of the things that are in our environment are endocrine disrupting chemicals, including a lot of skincare ingredients. So what what happens is when we're exposed to these ingredients, they these endocrine disruptors, they bind a hormone receptors. They can mimic hormones.

They just basically alter the way that hormones function in our body. So endocrine disrupting chemicals have been linked to infertility. They've been linked to breast cancer, prostate cancer, thyroid disease. Number of different hormonal issues really. And I think probably a big part of the reason why some women have a harder time going through menopause because of all these exposure to endocrine disrupting chemicals. So we want to reduce our exposure to those. And sunscreen is one of those places. Just swap it out.

Just use instead of a chemical sunscreen. Use a zinc oxide based one. Yeah, we can do so much when we just clean up our external environment and the things that we can, we can control what's in the environment and being spray, but we can control what we're putting on our bodies. So skincare a lot of women think of skincare and they think of facials and fillers and Botox. And I'm just curious what your opinion is on those type of things. Yeah, I mean, I my I think everything is a very personal decision.

My personal choice is not to do any Botox or fillers. And I'm 49 and it's certainly been there have been times in my life like, oh, maybe I could do a little this or that, and at this point in my life, I'm like, you know what? I actually like some of the wrinkles. I like the little crow's feet around my eyes. And they kind of they actually make me look like I have eyelashes or something, you know? I mean, and I've just gotten kind of used to them. And I really do think of wrinkles as something that, you know, we've been working hard for we, that we've been living and laughing.

So I, I don't have a problem with wrinkles, but I know not everybody feels that way. And we certainly we want to we want to maintain our youth the best we can. You know, I think graceful aging is a much better term than anti-aging, much prefer graceful aging. And so we don't want to look older than we are, because that actually can be a sign that something's out of balance in the body. And so if we're aging faster than other people our age, we want to take a closer look at that. Why is that happening?

And there might be that collagen breakdown, oxidative damage. Those are oftentimes or hormonal imbalances that are creeping up on you. And it's like, okay, pay attention to that. So but when it comes to things like, Botox and fillers, I think for women, if they choose to do that, you want to be mindful, you want to be, you want to really think about where is this coming from. So Botox is it comes from botulinum, which is a neurotoxin. Why are we injecting this in our bodies? I'm really not sure.

So, but at least if you're like, okay, I know it's a, you know, neurotoxin, and I still want to do it. Okay. At least, you know, you know where it comes from. But I think it's important to educate ourselves. I think oftentimes we just blindly make decisions

Botox, Fillers, and Graceful Aging 26:00

based upon what media says, what good marketing does, or what other people are doing that maybe haven't done the research. So just being aware of of of what these things are, and I, you know, I, I, you know, when it comes to fillers there and all of these things, when you're injecting things, there's a lot of things that can go wrong. So if you are going to go to someone, make sure you go to someone really, really get do your homework with fillers. If you're going to do them, do them minimally because they can create scar tissue and they can create problems down the road.

So just just keep that in mind. But again, everything is a personal choice. I just think everyone needs to make an educated decision, right? Yeah, I agree, I am, I, I don't recommend Botox or things like that to my patients, but I do have compassion for women who are not feeling good about themselves when they look in the mirror. And sometimes an outer fix can be part of the solution. But I also think there's other natural things, maybe like PRP facials or Mississippi, or things that aren't as well known.

That can be good options. But like you said, it's really about looking at what's going on inside and also what you're applying outside. So you have a new book that just released. Congratulations to you. You know, thank you. Yeah. It's natural beauty, very sad. And it's about harmony harmonizing hormones and restoring radiance. And so what I found is that we what one of the things that's really important that we lose track of is the changes with our, the seasons and that with the for particular areas food, movement, mindset and skincare that our needs change with each season.

And and part of us is what helps us with balancing our hormones. Because our hormones are change. Actually, it changes throughout the day, throughout the month, throughout our lives, and then also throughout the seasons. And so there are things that we can do to kind of reconnect with, you know, our rhythms, natural rhythms. And that includes with the seasons. So that's what the natural beauty resets about is about the four different seasons food movement, mindset, skincare for each season. And, you know, just to give a skincare as an example when and you know, it's very different in the summer and and and you know, when the weather is starting to get warmer, when we're perspiring more and what we need to do for our skincare routines or when we're attending get more sun exposure, like we just talked about and what parts of our body are exposed.

But really, a lot of it has to do with where is the sun and relationship to us at different times of the year, because that affects our sleep, it affects our mood, affects our hormones. So we need to make adjustments. Oh I love that. I'm so passionate about being in tune with the seasons and being connected to the, the internal rhythms, but the external rhythms. So I can't wait to read a copy. Yeah. Fantastic. Any other last minute pearls of wisdom you want to share with the listeners? Yeah. I think what's really important is to try and find your root cause and remember that your skin is giving you a signals about that.

New Book and Seasonal Beauty Reset 29:30

So trying to figure out do you have hormonal imbalances, your skin, trying to tell you that oxidative damage, is that one of the things that's going on with you, inflammation, gut issues and blood sugar imbalances? These are some of the things that can really trigger skin problems. And and that when you restore those, you can restore your skin and you can restore your overall health. And then that makes, transitions of life a lot easier, too. When we are addressing all of these things, that helps our skin.

It helps so much and our lives that make it easier for us to transition. I love that and I love the emphasis on it's internal and external because with a lot of health issues we're really just talking about internal and with our skin it is something that we see. It's something we present. We do it does build self-esteem. When you look in the mirror and you feel good about yourself and how your skin looks, and it's definitely a reflection of your overall health. And so not just going to a dermatologist and getting something to suppress it, but really holistically addressing your whole life and your skin is going to balance out from that.

So yeah. And what you put on your skin does get absorbed too. So paying attention to what you put on your skin, because I think a lot of times we just mindlessly put products on without really thinking about it. So I encourage people the next time you get ready to put something on your skin, do do this tattoo. Say what? I put it in my mouth. And then if you're if your answer is no, which probably it will be, then turn it over, look at the ingredients and start to get familiar with some of the ingredients.

So things like oxybenzone, you know, one of the endocrine disruptors cutting that out. Synthetic fragrance parabens. These are things that they these ingredients they do get absorbed. And studies do show that these show up in human samples. Diethyl phthalate is an fragrance that shows up on a lot of urine samples. Parabens show up in breast tumor tissue. And oxybenzone. A lot of these things, they are showing up in human samples. And so we know that they don't just sit on the surface of our skin.

And in fact, we use hormone creams on our skin because we know they're going to get absorbed. Right. So what else is getting absorbed with your hormone creams? That's another one that, a lot of women are using them and they're going, getting them over-the-counter or they're going and buying them places. Take a look at those too. What else? What what ingredients are in there? If you work with a compounding pharmacy, then they can help make sure that you have natural ingredients. And and it's been really interesting.

I'm sure you do a lot with hormone creams and I, I have over the years as well that different people react differently to skincare products. And when it and when it comes to biomedical hormones, you might need to change the base of that. So choose a natural like that. So we have enough right of that point. And that is such a good point because I initially automatically assumed, using a natural compounding pharmacy for my hormone creams, they're going to be natural. And then when I got to look at the ingredients that the base was, I was like, oh my God, I had a heart attack.

And so I had to go in, speak to my pharmacist and compound out pure, clean bases. And I think a lot of women are not getting pure, clean bases,

Root Causes, Product Ingredients, and Resources 33:00

even though they're getting bioidentical hormones. So that is an excellent point. Thank you for bringing that up. So if you're on hormone creams, you want to ask your prescriber to get you a ingredient list because they, like me many years ago, may also be surprised and may realize they have to re compound how they're doing it. And different bases. There are different ways to do it naturally, but you want to make sure it's natural. And the other thing you said, it's just I was envisioning like because we don't we think of what we eat is really affecting us.

But if we like, just consider like all these little mouths on our arms like that, our, our skin is just eating everything up as well. And I think if you hold that visual, you'll stop and think before you just slather things on. So real good. And for everyone who wants to know more about you, where can they find you? And do you have a free gift for the ladies? Yeah. So, people can find out about me at the spa doctor.com. So it's to spa dealer.com. So doctors abbreviated. So the spot doctor.com. We're also all over social media. There's a spot, doctor.

Don't forget it's abbreviated. Dr.. I also would suggest people take the skin quiz. They can go to the skin quiz.com. Find out what your skin personality type out and help you figure out about your root causes. And then our free my free gift is a, a, self-care survival kit. So we've got some goodies in there for you. Because self-care is so important. And as as women, we we just we need to do more of it because we take care of ourselves and we can do all the things that we do for other people. Even better.

Thank you, thank you. Well, I'm I'm going to go take my skin quiz. What was that website again? The skin. The skin quiz.com and just so many. Craig, congratulations on your book. Your new book coming out. I can't wait to read it. And for all the amazing work you do and put out in the world, and all the effort that went into your docu series, and we were talking about this when you were interviewing me earlier, but how this really has been potential and sharing this knowledge to really change the world, change women's health, change their impact.

So thank you for all that you do. Thank you, Sharon, for doing this. Summit. Yeah. Well, we we we just gotta keep getting the information out there because it's not that women are stupid because we're not. It's just that sometimes we don't know. We haven't heard the right information. And so this is all just about sharing information. So women hear, you know. Oh, well, there's other ways to handle skin issues. Not just taking that corticosteroid cream that my allergist gave me or my dermatologist gave me.

So we do it like you do just for the passion to share with everyone. So thank you for being here. Thank you everyone for being here. And I look forward to being with you in the next interview. Until then, do well. Take care. Bye bye.