The Healer’s Art: A Practitioner’s Call to Integrating Eastern Body & Western Mind

Introduction to the podcast and Greg Lee 0:00

A lot of farm buildings actually have mold in them. They're not air conditioning and you'd get all this humidity going in and you know, perfect mold environment. Also, he had a tick-borne infection called brucellosis, which is a bacterial infection. It can be a systemic, but also like some lymphatic system, it changes a person's body odor. So he had some, you know, body odor differences. Also, he had costridia infection that we found in his intestines. and that was causing leaky gut, a lot of inflammation that was not only affecting his gut, goes into the blood, affects the joints and goes into the blood-brain barrier.

So one of the sayings is, leaky gut, leaky vein, leaky brain. And so all this is making his cognitive ability much less effective. This is Doctor Talks. Real talk from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most. Welcome to the Two Curious MDs podcast with Dr. Alia Ahmed and Dr. Soraya Rahman, where integrative and narrative medicine meets psychedelic healing. Science, spirituality, and mental health converge to build resilience. Today's topic and our guest is Greg Lee from the Lyme Research Center in Maryland.

On the topic of building resilience, best methods for overcoming chronic illness in a thousand patients, Welcome, Doc. And today, Greg has given our guests a free download for our listeners on the top resilience methods from 1,000 patients, which will be available at www.limeresearchcenter.com. Imagine using the same analytical precision that guides robots to navigate the complexities of chronic illness and unlock profound healing. Greg Lee is the founder of the Lyme Research and Healing Center, and he's infused his background as a NASA systems engineer with the wisdom of natural therapies to help patients rebuild resilience in the face of persistent infections.

For our listeners offers a unique intersection of science, spirituality, and the mental fortitude required to overcome adversity. Today, he delves into deciphering the body's narratives, biohacking resilience, bridging Eastern wisdom and Western science, and then the spiritual journey of healing. Greg brings his own personal journey from chronic IBA to health innovator fueled by a master's in acupuncture and Chinese herbs and a master Sufi healer, and he can reflect on the profound connection between the physical healing and spiritual awakening.

At his clinic in Frederick, Maryland, he uses advanced electrical screening to uncover hidden disruptors like infections, toxins, and inflammation that can impact physical and mental health. We are so excited to have you here, Greg. Thank you so much. Thank you for being on. I feel so held by you being on both sides.

Greg's daughter and early Lyme awareness 2:50

It just feels like this really strong container in here. It's really wonderful. So thank you very much for having me on. Thank you. I'm very curious about the moment as I read about it with your daughter when she was first bitten by a tick. What was that experience like in your practice now as a Lyme Research Center, the work that you're doing with a technological approach? But take us back to that moment where you first learned about this condition with your daughter and that experience. Well, it was a day after she'd played it at some friend's house and it was just like, we saw this tick that she had, she actually picked it off herself.

And at that time I had probably seen about 500 Lyme co-infection patients. So I knew, you know, okay, me going to get the tick tested. So we sent it off to a lab, Clongin Labs and they tested it. It's like, oh, there's no Lyme, but it has Bartonella in it. And Bartonella can be sometimes worse than getting Lyme disease. So I talked to her pediatrician and said like, okay, this is what test it for. She goes, okay, here's some, you know, she was Lyme aware. So gave her antibiotics, gave her natural remedies.

We did this, you know, evaluation on her and, you know, she changed her diet. She was really good about it. I mean, she's a really great kid, you know. doesn't have any signs of rebellion, not until a later teen years, you know, but at this point, you know, she was much younger. And so, you know, just kind of watched her and we did our advanced scan on her and we saw that the infection was going down and, you know, occasionally she'd have a couple of neurological symptoms, but they have gone away since then.

And now she's finishing college and working in a law office, Washington DC. So, you know, there she's, you know, it doesn't seem to be impacted by having, you know, encountered that infection to the tick. And so it was, you know, I'm very blessed to have had the knowledge to deal with it early and to, you know, help her to not have more serious consequences of that infection. So. That's great. The impact that you experience for yourself with your daughter and what you see in your patients that as they come in, tell us a little bit about the work that you're doing and also your background as an engineer, what influences have.

that had in the work that you're doing and the patients that you take care of. So I grew up watching Star Trek, the first original one, but the reruns. And I was like, wow. And then also at that time, when I was a kid, they were launching Apollo astronauts in the space. And I'm like, wow. I want to be part of that. And so I studied engineering in school and fortunately, I took a class with Dr. Paul Lohman. He worked at NASA and I said, Hey, can you get me a job? Sure. It was the easiest job interview I've ever had in my life.

I was just like, Oh, I got a job. Isn't this way for everybody getting a job? Just say, Hey, can I get one? Yeah, man. And so I got to work on, he looked at like the global fracture pattern of continents. And, you know, I learned about, Hey, continents are actually slowly moving and like going into the earth's crust and they're making volcanoes and all this stuff. And cause I knew somewhat about it because my mom was a geologist. And so, you know, I grew up in a house full of rocks and, you know, we'd go to gem shows and she, I get all the dinosaur like fossils and.

get all the Jade and other things like that. So, you know, and so as a result, I became very like analytical and scientific and eventually got to work on projects with like robots. And we would have astronauts come into a robotics lab and they would control these robots as if they would be controlling them in space to build, you know, on or the space station on orbit. And so, you know, lots of challenges to work out and always wanting to make proof of concept and tests and tests and tests. And that's due the stress of all that.

It was very exciting because, you know, I feel like this is the closest thing to, you know, going to space that I'm probably going to get.

Engineering background and the move into healing 7:00

You know, I got gut issues. I got, you know, cramping and bloating and it was just like, you know, what's going on? I thought I'd go away, you know, kind of, you know. Being the, I think it was in my twenties and I was like, you know, I had to pay attention to it, but it kept getting worse. And the doctor said, oh, you got irritable bowel, here's some medication. I took the meds and I was just like, it didn't help. And it gave me really bad brain flogs. So I was like freaking out, got anxiety, insomnia is like kind of like the lowest point in my life.

And fortunately, a colleague of mine said, why don't you try acupuncture? And I was just like, my uncle who actually worked for the government, he would sting himself with bees to get bee venom for his arthritis. And I spent a time, I was like, no, no way. Because, you know, I just stung my bees and it is not what I want to do. And now at my point, my point was just like, oh, my gut's like, oh, mess. All right, I'll do it. You know, I didn't do the bee venom at that point. Yeah, I mean, the acupuncture and that, you know, is different than when I'd been to the doctor and the acupuncturist asked me all these crazy questions like, well, what are your symptoms telling you?

And it's like, I have no idea. And she goes like, well, look at this way, when you eat these foods, what happens to your symptoms? Like, oh, okay, you know, you know, engineering brains kicks in, okay, I can see the, you know, leading factors causing some sort of condition. So changed my diet, got treatments, cook remedies. And it was just like, oh, I got better sleep and things started to get better and better, better. Within a few months, most of my symptoms were better. And I was like, great, back to work.

Don't think much of it. See ya. And then a year later, these symptoms started to come back and it's like. I don't want to go through that again because it was such a horrible experience. I encountered an interview with Joseph Campbell. He turned up Sarah Lawrence and he said, follow your bliss. And I was like, what's my bliss? What's my bliss? I have no idea what my bliss is. And so it hit me. I was actually in a training with an osteopath learning a craniosacral technique and he hit me like, go help others to heal like you were helped to heal.

So I was like, boom, okay, I'm going to lead NASA and go study acupuncture. which my colleagues at NASA thought, you are nuts. What are you doing? But the younger engineers were like, man, I wish I had the guts to do what you were doing. I was just like, okay, I'm not totally nuts. And so, you know, the training and acupuncture, much different than in nearing school, you know, it's more touchy feely and you're learning about energy and tea and systems. I was like, okay, I can get into the systems.

I'm used to that, but you know, the touchy feely stuff is kind of interesting, different and having such a more left brain education. And then now it's integrating right and left hemispheres. I'm like. You know, went through a lot of changes, like, you know, forgetting appointments, locking my keys in the car and all these other changes. But it was part of the transformation of getting out from being so left brain into more balanced right left brain. So yeah. Wow, can I hang on to that point for a second?

I think you just dropped a little, a lot of gold on our labs. That piece that you're mentioning, this like forgetting keys and this and that, and that happening as part of a process. Some might say that we're in the midst of that ADHD kind of like, epidemic right now, right, of people labeling this brain fog, this lack of focus. And I'm just kind of connecting with how that is maybe part of a process where we're doing this going out of our materialist, left-sided, only rational brain, which we know needs to integrate back with the rest of everything else.

It's like we've been only functioning with half of our neurobiology. And when we go to connect the two, There's things that happen and you can label them ADHD or forgetfulness or whatever. That's fascinating. Did you put that together at that time or was that something that just kind of in retrospect you've started to look at the patterns? Well, I was involved, I was enrolled in a healing school with a doctor, Robert Ibrahim Jaffe was, and at the time I was like, you know, what's going on here? And, you know, you're just letting your mind surrender more to your heart.

And of course it was frustrating for my mind that wanted to remember my appointments and not lock my keys in my car. stuff like that. And I could take the guidance because I had other mentors, you know, previously I said, okay, let me see, I can just go with that and explore it and work with that. It was, you know, momentarily frustrating, but ultimately if my mind is more surrendered to my heart, which I hope it is, then I'm okay with it. That's beautiful. I love that. I'm just kind of thinking about what that journey, how old were you when this was happening?

That I was probably around my mid thirties when I was kind of going through the post, you know, mind heart kind of integration or, or letting the heart become more the leader than the mind. Yeah. And you sought out gurus and teachers in this realm. I sought out the medical intuitive Dr. Robert Jaffe. He's a medical intuitive. He's, you know, he's an MD, homeopath, medical intuitive, Sufi teacher. And so that, that, that's the path I was drawn to after like the acupuncture training. And he then had a guide from Jerusalem who taught at Alaska.

And he's the one that I also studied with that. I learned how to do like the cupping and also herbals out of the Sufi healing tradition. So yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about the Sufi healing tradition.

Sufi healing, heart-mind integration, and core beliefs 12:40

Cause I'm actually sorry to say, even being from an Islamic background and from our family, I'm just not even familiar with what that entails other than the label. Well, they're the, how do I say this? The Sufis are basically the mystical tradition of Islam. And you can look at, you know, other, you know, traditions like the Assin in Christianity. Those are also, and basically there's, are experienced different planes of existence. You know, in the material world, you know, you have the ego and it says, Hey, I want this, I want that.

And, you know, we don't get it. We get upset. We have a, you know, or we get it and we're happy. And at some point, you know, there's the next subtle level of reality, according to the Sufi healers, where you have the layer of the heart, of the level of the heart, where it's more like what I love. I love this, I love that, I don't love this, you know, and it's, it's more corresponds to the angelic realm in reality. And in that you can, you know, you still can have, you know, things of light and darkness in that realm, things of good and bad.

So there's, you know, there's duality still in there. And then the next level is what to call the level of the soul. And those are the qualities you may hear of the 99 qualities. There's actually 120 qualities, but they're still called 99. Whether it be to have mercy or to have strength or to have, you know, compassion or surrender to God, you know, as your names are both qualities, you know, that's very. Yeah, Rahman is mercy, I believe, or compassion. I always forget which is which. Rahim and Rahman.

And so there's still separation at that level. And then there's the unity. And that is the statement in the soul level is I am. So I am this, I am that. And also that's the level at which there's more of the subtle lights. Like the qualities are represented as lights in the layer of the soul. And then beyond that, there's unity, which the statement there is the what. So there's no separate, there isn't separation when you're there and you can know things, you can understand things, you can get direct wisdom from the highest.

And having gone through Dr. Jaffe's school, you know, there's a lot of teachings in that in order to bring healing, it's not only on a physical level, It's also on a heart level, it's also on a soul level and also on a spirit level too. And to tend all of those, you know, not everyone's ready to have a spirit conversation when they're coming in with, I have Lyme disease, I just got a diagnosis. It's like, okay, let's treat your infection, air toxins and your symptoms. And also there may be other things that they have in a heart.

they're not getting or that they love and they're not getting or they believe something that is untrue about themselves. Like they're not worthy of healing. Like at one man, he came in and he was a manager and he drove the Hummer and he is like the man, you know? And he came in, he had chronic pain, he had joint and then he had brain fog and it's about, he kept getting, coming in and after about two or three months, he was getting much better. And he goes, you know, I have one thing I haven't told you about that's really bothering me.

And I said, oh, what is it? I'm crying all the time and I can't stop. So, you know, this is something that isn't necessarily a physical thing. It's more of an emotional heart level thing. And so one of the processes that we learn in Sufi healing is like you have the situation that people are in. I says, well, when does this happen? Oh, like if I see a dog that looks like it's lost, I lose it. I just can't, I can't help crying, you know, because, you know, it's, it's so, you know, it's a lost dog.

And so, you know, I didn't make fun of it like that, but, you know, when I say, yeah, that I can understand that. And so then what are the emotions that come up? It's, oh, there's deep sadness, you know, and, you know, this, I'm saying, okay. And then underneath that layer, there's what do you want? Well, I want to control myself. I want to control my emotions. I don't want to just feel like I'm just going to cry at moments that because I work in construction and the people around aren't the most.

understanding of these kinds of events. And then it's like, okay, then the next layer and kind of dialogue with him, this is something I learned at a company called Lionheart, which is a bunch of bringing these tools into the workplace for like big corporations, you know, like Nike and actually one of the big medical corporations, which the name eludes me and I'll hit me later. And so we use these tools coaching with different executives and people in leadership positions. So we had to come up with more of a acceptable nomenclature vocabulary for them to use.

So this is part of that process. And then underneath the want, the situation, there's a problem. There's the issue that bothers them the most. And, you know, for him, it was not feeling he had control and what he wanted was to have control. And then underneath that is the hidden issue. And this is often subconscious, like people don't know it's there. And so it kind of takes the skill of, you know, the understanding, the subtler ways in which you can pick up this kind of information. A lot of it through is through the subtle sensing of the heart.

And like you can find this in Chinese medicine, you can find this in Sufi healing. And for him, you know, it was like, okay, so you're in this situation and this is happening. And, you know, what does this mean to you? What does it mean to you when you, you know, see this, you know, lost puppy and all this stuff. And for him, it was, there isn't enough healing for everybody and I don't deserve it. And it was like, then he lost it. It was like this deep, painful, untrue belief that may correspond to more like that soul level you're talking about.

And so at that point, it's like, that's the core untrue belief we need to help him to heal. So as, you know, Sufi healer, we don't, it's not up for us to heal. It's for the divine. It's for God to heal that for him. So I have him invoke whatever he calls a name of the highest source of healing. So he's Catholic. And so for his name, it was God. So I said, okay, now ask God, is it really true that there is enough healing for everybody and you don't deserve it? And so he goes, okay. God, God, God, quietly to himself.

And after about a minute his face softens. And I said, well, what happened? And he goes like, I got the insight that there's enough healing for everybody. It's okay for me to receive. And that totally shifted his energy. It totally shifted his face. And, and I said, okay, so now what do you see as different? Because now this untrue belief is starting to break. It's starting to. And so his subtle senses of his heart are no longer blocked by this. He's not seeing through that filter or what they call a picture and Sufi healing.

And so he's like, I see that it's okay to be who I am and allow me to feel my, my feelings. And it was just like, you know, that insight was just like a total mind blower. I mean, I can understand being a man and being raised in this society. And it was like, so whenever he felt feelings come up, then he would just, I just coached him and say, okay, just go into repeating, you know, the name God and letting yourself receive what insight, what guidance, what support you have available to in that moment.

And so that was a huge game changer for him at that kind of more subtler, subconscious, untrue belief level. Wonderful. Wow. You have really walked us through not just your own healing process coming from an engineering mindset, to somebody who really recognized that the heart healing, the connection to the heart, which we call the heart and mind connection, and recognizing your own, I guess, block or barrier, whatever it was that prevented you from accessing that logical mindset. to that balance that you spoke about after getting through that process and the importance of that balance, I would say.

And then this story, which truly kind of reflects this philosophy of Sufism and breaking it down for us. And this is a very complicated topic for anybody, I'm sure, but in this very practical breakdown through that process of how you apply this modality or this method or this belief exactly with them. in Sufism in a very therapeutic way with this patient who fully kind of was able to reconcile that heart, brain, and even spiritual connection, which is what we talk about in integrative medicine, is that whole, you know, the balance of all of those three.

That itself really exemplifies how you are working as a therapist, as a healer.

Biometric scanning and personalized treatment approach 22:00

And I'm also fascinated to learn more about the personalized approach that you provide with imaging and scans and the technological component to that and how you build that in. So having worked with the medical intuitive, I got kind of used to having people who are really able, I mean, you know, walking, not only Western trained, but also energetically trained. And it's just like, okay, I can't always access, you know, cause Dr. Jaffe's, you know, very busy with doing what he's doing. I need to have a way to do it in my office.

So I was presenting at a conference in Richmond and I met another practitioner there who used a biometric scan, non-invasive scan. Basically you put your hand on an interface and it scans for Infections, toxins, inflammation, emotional issues, spiritual issues, all sorts of things that are very useful for when it's time to work with those kinds of issues. Especially with our patients, it's like a lot of them come in and they have no idea what their current infection is. Like we had one woman recently, she came in because I know it's Lyme, I was raised in Minnesota and I've been bitten by 12 different ticks and all this stuff.

We're doing a scan on her and it question came up is like Harris Lake that's found in the Caribbean as a protozoa. And she looked at me and goes like, I got sick of my honeymoon 25 years ago in Jamaica. I'm like, yeah, that might try. And she was like blown away because it's like, no, your lime, there's no lime here. It's not really showing up. It's showing up as this, cause she had a lot of gut issues. And so now we're treating it for that. And she's like, wow, I can't believe how much better I'm feeling.

Cause we're able to nail whatever that is and also help her, you know, heal whatever the other manifestations of that are. So that's, you know, me, it's like seeking a medical intuitive that I can use, you know, whenever I need it. So that's kind of like why we sought out this. And so we, I have a colleague of mine who quarterbacks the scan and I kind of am the onsite person with the patient and we, we hook up remotely and we do that. So. And that's made a huge difference. I mean, I could go on and stories and stories and stories about patients that, you know, because we're near Johns Hopkins and like patients have been at Hopkins for 10 years, 37 specialists, gazillion tests.

And, you know, we found things in the scan that they didn't test for, they missed and, you know, and the tremendous healing that can happen as a result, you know. And even how you're using these barometric scans to really, as well as your relationship with the patient, what you're learning from each of these stories that really teach us in medicine. And we tend to forget that we're still kind of in this relationship, this shared understanding of an experience, of our condition, and that context.

And it's unique for each person, I imagine. And so tell us a little bit more of some of those stories that blend All aspects of what you described, the Sufi component of the practice that you provide, the technological biometric approach, their past history and conditions that are symptomatic at this point, and how you're able to bring in the mind, body, soul, spiritual aspect in some of the patients that you've treated. cases stand out. I'll talk about this guy who went to Hopkins and, you know, he had been given multiple diagnosis, multiple medications and was getting worse and better and worse and better, worse, worse, more worse.

And he got to the point he ran his own farm and was ahead and, you know, was responsible for this big operation. And he got to the point where he said, I can't add two numbers in my head. I've done the books for over a decade and now I can't even. do this stuff. And he told his wife that, you know, I don't want to do this anymore. Meaning I don't want to live anymore. And she, you know, this was very much unlike, you know, most farmers I know, and it's very much unlike him because most farmers I work with.

Got up at four in the morning and they get out there all work all day and they come out and get up the next day. And so he would getting up at 10, 11 o'clock in the morning, barely struck, you know, barely ever get through the day and just collapsing. And so it was very disheartening for him. And the Hopkins specialist he saw weren't able to help him resolve this. And so what we did was. You know, since we do see a lot of patients that have been there, they are scanned and we found he had three infections that they had missed.

One, he had Aspergillus in his sinuses because a lot of farm buildings actually have mold in them. They're not air-conditioning and you get all this humidity going in and you know, perfect mold environment. Also, he had a tick-borne infection called brucellosis. which is a bacterial infection create, it can be a systemic, but also like some lymphatic system, it changes a person's body odor. So he had some, you know, body odor differences. Also, he had costridia infection that we found in his intestines and that was causing leaky gut, a lot of inflammation.

That was not only affecting his gut, goes into the blood, affects the joints and goes into the blood-brain barrier. So one of the sayings is leaky gut, leaky vein, leaky brain. And so all this is making his cognitive ability much less effective. So you can add two numbers together in his head. And so we're able to kind of map this out and say, okay, here are the main issues, here are the main infections. Also, what biotoxins? He had a lot of endotoxicity in his system from the different infections.

He had mycotoxins. They're actually leaking out of a scientist's sinuses and getting into this nervous system because, you know, this is like the front door of the brain here. You know, you have a thin nasal bone that goes whoop and they go right through, or they go through the glyphatic system and go into the nervous system. And so as we understood these different reservoirs of infections, the toxins and inflammation, then we started to work on how to clean those out. So he did like nasal washes.

We do, there's a system called Nasoneb that actually shoots like a four foot stream mist, like through the sinuses, so it gets into the rear sinuses. And we gave him different essential oils. that were effective against aspergillus and they lower inflammation and they help with, you know, neural protection also. So he would shoot those into his sinuses and things would just rinse out and he would sleep better and his brain started to have, you know, clearer thinking. He also received, I'm at a research facility here in Frederick and we formulate things into microparticles.

So we make microemulsions, liposomes of different essential oils. and also herbal remedies. And those were made up to fight, you know, aspergillus, the clostridia and the brucellosis. And so those were the ones that he'd be taking on a daily basis. He also did, we, we do functional medicine also here. So we gave him. functional medicine readies for healing the gut and lots of stuff for draining the lymphatic system, like homeopathic wise and also homeopathics for targeting

Complex chronic illness case studies and recovery 29:20

the infections also. So it's kind of like a redundant because at NASA, they're all about redundancy. You know, you shoot stuff into space, it's really hard to repair. So. I'm kind of following that philosophy. And so he, and also one of the things that under Sufi healing, as they do cupping and bloodletting to pull toxicity out, but it also pulls out the bad spirits out of the body. Now, not every patient has bad spirits and they're called the non-believing jinn in Islamic medicine. And so that's another thing.

And we took the first time we did it, His blood came out like jello. It was like not very liquid. It was like, you know, clot, clotting, so hypercoagulated. Cause he also, we also see that a lot in long COVID and post COVID infection patients. Cause the, you know, micro clots have made them so hypercoagulated, the spike protein also. And so that was something that we use a lot of the cupping to address not only the physical level, but the energetic levels of this kind of manifestation of and post COVID issues.

Yeah. And so at, you know, he would come in weekly and then he doesn't get better. He'd come in, space it out more. And at this four month mark, he goes, you saved my life. I'm going on vacation to Alaska and you can to give everyone my name and number. And so he went to Alaska and, you know, he kept on the remedies. I said, how you doing? I talked to him like a couple months ago, cause. People are saying, Hey, do you know somebody I could talk to? And I said, yeah, let me call him. And he goes, I'm doing great.

So it's just, you know, working. We don't always, you know, talk about the more subtle energetic healing because most patients are focused on their symptoms, their infections. So we talk there first. And then if they go there and they bring up emotional stuff, then we can kind of dive into that also. What you're talking about, just to kind of frame it, is these manifestations of chronic illness that we find ourselves in. And it's so different, like you're on the East Coast where Lyme is so prevalent, right?

We're on the West Coast where we barely ever see it. You know, so there's just this kind of, but what we see on here, you know, we see different manifestations of autoimmune. So I just want to kind of like set the stage for the fact that autoimmunity is now something that we're learning more and more about, you know, even something like lower downloads and, you know, some of those kind of connective tissue issues. And we're just finding out that we know more now on a systems level, we can test more now.

So I'm kind of curious about what it is that you're testing, you know, what systems, I know there was some understanding of frequency and hydrogen therapy, some really, and cellular energy, some really understand, wanting to understand like, what's that framing that's being used, you know, as we talk about, I love how you talked about the layers, because, you know, the layers exist in other, in yoga as well, you know, we talk about all the different energetic layers, and it also leaves space for this non-dual awareness.

which is something that really maps very well onto psychedelics, you know, is in psychedelics we can get through those layers faster and access them more directly. So I'm really starting to make sense of, you know, the breadcrumbs that you're laying out and I'm really curious about what are the specific frame, you know, kind of systems in the body and how they're interacting and how you're picking up the signals. So it's mainly through the scan as we do our initial evaluation of, you know, how do we pick up the main things that we need to treat immediately?

Because a lot of patients come in and they're in need of rescue. They've been to, you know, lots of other practitioners and they're, you know, struggling despite years, years of constant antibiotics. I had one woman, five year constant antibiotics. still sick, you know, her liver or gut were had a lot of side effects from that treatment. So that was kind of like our main initial evaluation tool. We also have a reflexologist on staff who is actually the head of the National Reflexology Organization.

She's a master diagnostician. Like she'll like look at, I mean, she'll just look at somebody's foot and go like, okay, there's adrenal, there's thyroid, there's this part of the brain. And I'm like, How do you do that? To have her on my, on my staff, helping out with our patients. And based on her evaluation, we'll take that information and then say, okay, we also do something called frequency specific microcurrents, which is FDA approved for pain relief. And it uses a millionth of an amp electrical frequencies.

So you can think like it's similar to a 10 unit, which is thousands of amps, but it's much lower level. It's three magnitudes less, and it kind of matches the electrical system of the body. And this is actually partially what our scan uses to evaluate different regions, 100 regions of the brain, what's going on in the gut, what's going on with the lymphatics, using these microcurrent maps. And so you have in frequency-specific microcurrent, you have two frequencies. You have one in a healing frequency, you know, parasites, Borrelia, Bartonella, you know, healing trauma or faster regeneration.

And then you also have a targeting frequency, a tissue frequency. So you can combine that together and say clear bacterial toxins out of the liver. Help lower inflammatory cytokines in the midbrain. Help with anti-strap frequencies in the basal ganglia for like PANs, PANDAS kids. So it's very targeted, very precise, very helpful. Cause we have the scan information that tells us kind of like the map of where issues are. And then we can translate that into a customized microcurrent treatment to then say, okay, this is how we can start to really make a difference in these neurological patients.

Cause you know, we do see LOs, Danlos. PAN's PAN does patients also autism spectrum that are mainly caused by infections. And microcarin is one of the main tools that we use to help them to, you know, not get worse, hopefully get better. Some patients will, you know, buy their own unit and do it on a daily basis. And that's helped them to stay out of chronic pain and lower heal their gut. So there's lots of stories where we can talk about how, you know, some people resonate with microcurrent frequency, some people resonate with homeopathic, some people are essential oil people.

Other people are herbal or supplements, you know. So it depends. Yes, no, I think it's fascinating and I want to really highlight what you've brought up and you've brought up what we call the true integrative medicine, right? Integrative medicine, I say to patients, is the integration of the Eastern and Western-based sciences that go back to ancient practices and beliefs and understanding that the westernized component of also care, the technology, the information, the physiology, the science, the neurochemistry, bringing, branding that in into some place where there's a cohesive understanding of that single individual to the best of our ability as a physician.

And one of the reasons why we do this podcast is really about, we need to know who each other are. You know, you are a former engineer now doing this work in Chinese and traditional medicine with the Sufi practice of building that in with your patients, working as a team with your providers. in your center, and then having, again, we all operate in the system of healthcare as well, patients coming to you as a rescue level. And what is it like for you working, again, in your center where that mindset is there, and then working with the environment of that system of healthcare that we all kind of operate in and patients circulate in?

I have an earlier template of NASA. And so I was working with top people in the robotics and satellites and people who are like brilliant, you know. And so for me, it's like, how do I bring that into medicine? And that's kind of like where I've kind of tried to, you know, build and instill that and train other practitioners in that. And it's been. I feel like I'm fairly unique that way. So, cause most holistic providers, they're not engineers. They're not trained in that level of systems thinking or analysis.

Fortunately, there are some and they, they're the ones that really resonate. They go like, Oh my God, I am totally on what you were doing and all this stuff. You know, it's really, the patients drive my research. Okay. I have, like, I just got an inquiry from a Huntington's patient. Well, you know, Huntington's is a genetic disease. It's like, well, we, we don't know how to change the genes, do we? Well, there's a lot of neurological protein that's folded. You know, mitochondrial dysfunction, there's all these inflammatory conditions that can happen in these patients.

So I began to look at, okay, how do we protect the brain? How do we use different remedies like hydrogen therapy? We, most of our patients do inhalation through a nasal cannula. And there's multiple studies where it significantly lowers inflammation, tumor necrosis factor alpha interleukin 1 beta interleukin 6. And it's something I do personally on a daily basis because it helps me sleep deeper and it also has anti-cancer properties. So it's kind of like my anti-cancer-like practice and it's been a game changer.

for my neurological infection, also autoimmune patients that have a lot of chronic inflammation. And I also want to get back because the autoimmune thing we find in patients that we get with like rheumatoid arthritis and Sjogren's and lupus. What we often find is they have a stealth infection that hasn't been discovered through their other testing. And often it's a mycoplasma. So different mycoplasma hominis, sometimes pneumonia. And when we start to treat those using microcurrent, because there's microcurrent frequencies for mycoplasma, homeopathics, there's herbals and essential oils that have, you know, research studies, lab studies, anti-inhibitory effects on those infections.

So, and there's like, you know, hundreds of mycoplasma species out there. So. more barely scratching the surface of it. But hopefully with the advances of some of these artificial intelligence analysis tool, we'll be able to map the natural compounds that may have more of an effect against specific species and things like that. Well, no, mycoplasma, the ultimate culprit, right? It shows up in almost every other condition. It's such a pervasive little stealth that you described, you know, pathogen.

And it has worked in different, how it enters in different systems. I love how you bring the science of the medicine in your in your practice, really recognizing the anatomy, the physiology, the result of that process as well, because that's also a part of advertisement observing that might change or that alteration. And then again, you really unify the heart, mind, body, soul way of seeing your patients. which I think is something we miss in medicine. In Westernized medicine, we really keep that conversation out of a conversation in the patient history for whatever reason.

And I've always been very curious about this. Why is that? Why do we keep that conversation separate? as if we only talk about it with the end of life or a palliative care level when somebody's right at there.

Microcurrent, hydrogen therapy, and integrative tools 41:20

So let's now think about, can you call the chaplain? Because you need a consult now at this stage. And then it comes into mind. But really bringing it even in early life, talking to our pediatric patients, what is your belief in God? Having that conversation somehow stems so many disease or discomfort with that, with topics, with patients. It's a difficult conversation to really have with a patient, but I'm curious about how you bring that in into the conversation with your patients. It's really based upon the need of the patient and where there's a saying in Sufism, you speak in the language of the person you're talking to.

So I try to understand that and speak with them in that and meet them where they're at. And it can open up. If they're open to it, then we can talk about emotional stuff. We can talk about. subtle energy. We can talk about other things, but it takes getting rapport and trust with the patient for them to kind of say, okay, yeah, I'm willing to open up that I'm crying every, you know, all the time and I can't stop or, you know, other, other patients have similar challenges. Like in one patient, he was a, this guy, he just opened his mouth in the first 10 seconds I met him.

I said, you are like the next Einstein. And he had been working with a Lyme doc in New Jersey where he lived. for about two and a half years. And he was, he got better, but then he relapsed and then he came to me and I knew I met the doc because I met her at a conference and stuff. So after working with him for about two months, he goes like, I'm really having a lot of memory issues. And I got my memory tested and my short-term memories are intact, but I just can't access them. And so I began to think about, okay, what came up in his scan was he had babesia microde, which is like malaria in his nervous system.

And I thought, okay, this is kind of like what's blocking that because it can be highly inflammatory and activate the microglia and all these issues that can interfere with accessing your different regions of your brain, like your memories. So I said, okay, we need, cause we get them herbals, we get other supplements, but it wasn't, it wasn't getting it cut through. So I said, okay, we need to like pick out the big guns. So I had him, we prepared a solution, B-venom, extracted B-venom in saline, sterile saline and had him snort it.

And he had a huge immediate Hertzheimer reaction, or what I interpreted was a Hertzheimer reaction. He goes, I feel like there's huge amounts of pressure and inflammation in my head. And his eyeballs went really wide. And this is a 21, 22 year old, you know, student that couldn't be in college because of his, you know, memory issues. And so we did cupping and bloodletting on him to pull out the inflammatory cytokines, the toxins that are on his neck, his shoulders. And so it all came out. you know, rather dark, not as jello-like as the other guy, but still thick and all that.

And after about... Can you describe the Herzheimer reaction for our audience? So Herzheimer reaction, you take a remedy that kills an infection, you release toxins, often endotoxins, depending on the kind of infection you're killing, that then flare up symptoms. Inflammation, pain, brain fog, fatigue. nausea, depending on where the stuff is released. So for him it was in his brain because he, you know, he snorted it. And so after about 30 minutes of doing that, plus a microcurrent, we were able to get him to a place where he was like, okay, I can drive home now.

Because it was a three and a half hour drive down, gets to him, a three and a half hour drive back. So I'm looking at him like, you just had a big change in your head. Are you sure you're going to be okay? Yeah, I'm okay. You know, the 20 year olds are like, you know, I'm invincible kind of thing. And I'm like, okay. So on his way home, he gets a call from a friend that he knew in college from three years ago. He talks to him, blah, blah, blah. Then calls me back afterwards and says, Hey, I just talked to this guy.

I'm remembering things I haven't remembered in years. Thanks. And I just talked to him last week and he's like, he's. no longer living at home, no longer working in a burger joint, he has an engineering degree, he lives on the West Coast, he's a dad, he's all this stuff, and you know, doing great. So, and that was- That's amazing. The thing that really, you know, saying like, how do we get that access, that interconnections in the brain, because that's often gets disrupted in neurologic Lyme, neurological Babesia patients, how do we like really open that up?

And we also gave him supplements to, you know, help him with his nervous system. But that was kind of like to like open that door up so he could, you know, on the ride home, remember stuff that he knew years ago. That's amazing. Neuroplasticity and it's possible to heal the neurological system. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what we're learning. Yeah. So it's just how do we, you know, because, you know, it took me months to figure that out because I tried the herbals and other things and supplements and it just wasn't strong enough to break it.

I love your commitment to your patients. I want to say that that is a great example of how we can be beside our patients and recognize that sometimes healing takes time. And that's something that we've lost and we're all looking for that. So thank you. And really demonstrating the art of healing, really. You really demonstrated the art of healing, listening, paying attention to those subtle details, recognizing what they're looking for, not what we're trying to administer, really focusing on their quality of their life and the impact and following through and being that friend that they can call on the way home.

That's the art of healing and that's the art of medicine. And thank you for being here today and sharing. I feel very warm and infusive. So thank you. It comes from a good place. It comes from our heart space right here. You have taught us something that is really resonating with me as I speak to you today is the practice of Sufism in the spiritual practice or whatever element, bringing that in, but in a very broad, supportive way for so many people who may not be that Sufi practice, but definitely can resonate with the ideologies and the belief systems, and I think that's very important to highlight.

Yeah, and I love to watch how you have balanced the two, the rational, the questing, the curious, and very much based in data and information, while also the relationship and really being curious and really believing patients and their experience and recognizing that it's a complex process. Yeah. Well, I feel like I'm kind of just a guide. You know, I did a lot of outdoor ed, so being lost in the woods a lot, you know, it's like, Oh my God, get me out of the woods, you know, so it's like, you know, a lot of the healing traditions are like the healings within you, you know, one of the tenants when you're in that.

that layer where there's no separation, there's no illness in that layer, in that place that exists within all of us. So I feel like my job is to help people tap into that as much as possible for their healing. Well said. That's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for tuning into Doctor Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health. Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your well-being. For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website, www.doctortalks.com.

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