Why Trauma is Your Biology & Not Psychology

Introduction to Trauma and the Summit 0:00

It helps clarify for people when in their life they experienced a stress and when what they experience was a trauma. Because when they go to their healthcare providers, they don't know this information about the trauma response, and so they may tell them, oh, you're so stressed. When actually, no, there in a traumatic response. They may even say, but you have chronic stress. when actually it may be trauma. It's really important that people understand that difference and be able to feel that different in their body so that in any given moment in time, they can check in quickly and say, all right, am I in stress response or am i in the trauma response?

This is Doctor Talks. Alright gang, welcome back to the Medicine of Mindset Summit. It's Jana Danielson. I am your co-host for this jam-packed week full of amazing speakers, amazing information that I hope will become wisdom. And what I was saying in an earlier episode was I feel like knowledge is knowledge. Knowledge is hearing something or reading something and that's great. But what's the bridge into bringing it into the realm of who you are? How is it changing you? And when you live that knowledge, it can over time become wisdom.

And so I'm so excited to introduce Dr. Amy Apigian, who is our next speaker. We're going to be chatting with Dr Amy all about why trauma is your biology. not psychology and I think this is such a perfect topic for the Medicine of Mindset Summit. So let me get you a little more familiar with this amazing woman. She's a leading medical expert on how life experiences get stored in the body and how to restore the the best state of health through her signature model and methodology that she calls the biology of trauma.

She's a double board certified medical physician in preventative medicine and addiction medicine. She has a master's in biochemistry and a masters in public health. In addition to her medical training, she's also a functional medicine physician. I actually don't know when she started this, maybe when was like seven years old, I'm not exactly sure. And she has training and certifications specifically in neuro autoimmunity, nutrition, genetics for addictions, mental health and mood and behavioral disorders.

Now, and wait, because there's more. She brings you the biology of trauma, which really is a new lens and a methodology that courageously both adds and bridges trauma work and medicine by reverse engineering the chronic effects of trauma on the nervous system and on body at a cellular level. And I believe as most people do in this work or that you've been connected to this week, a lot of this comes from her own personal experiences,

Defining Trauma as Overwhelm 2:50

first for her adopted son and then for herself, and really she's created this unique lens for understanding trauma and has come out of it joining the two worlds of neuroscience and trauma therapy in a really unique way. She offers a science-based solution to how to rewire the nervous system with the biology of trauma, and really this program accelerates the healing journey through resources to resilience, presence and aliveness. And I love that. Now there's her signature course is a 21 day journey to calm aliveness, which is an experiential journey into the nervous system that is open to all.

Then she's also gone one step further to also help clinicians. She's done this through her eight module certification course that teaches the protocols of addressing the biology of trauma on the different systems of the body. So in a nutshell, this woman has impacted humans on this earth in a radical way. And we are so grateful that Dr. Amy said yes to the Medicine and Mindset Summit. So welcome, Dr Amy. Well, thank you. Thank you for that very kind introduction. It means a lot and I'm very happy to support you with what you're doing here.

Hmm, Thank You. Okay, so let's start. I feel like the word trauma needs to be defined by you because I feel like you come at it in a very different way. So before we get into anything else, let's get rooted into your definition of trauma, which I think will really set the framing for our conversation today. Sure, because some people may have already checked out me like trauma like I haven't had trauma. We do need to redefine trauma absolutely and I'm so glad that you're starting there. A very simple definition that I like to start with is that trauma is anything that for any reason at that time overwhelmed us.

Anything. It doesn't even need to be something big. Doesn't need even be an event. anything. That for a reason. And there are many reasons. So that's why I say for ANY reason And at that time in our life, when we look back at different times in life we were in different places, we had different coping mechanisms, different levels of maturity, and different level of wisdom. So what we can handle now is not what you could handle back then. At that point in your life. Overwhelmed us overwhelmed us in what way well overwhelmed our capacity to process What was happening overwhelmed?

Our capacity? to Process the emotions At that time and when we don't process it at that Time it gets stored tucked away in our body doesn't go anywhere and It gets stored and that's what expresses itself in different ways, whether different behaviors or actions or words that we say or in our health. And the body is a form of expressing everything that has happened to us and what we've been able to process and we have been not able process. So what do you think the true root cause of trauma, where does that come from?

Yeah, so there's two things that cause trauma. So if that's what trauma is, then there are two categories of experiences that create that trauma response in our body.

Stress vs. Trauma in the Nervous System 6:30

One of the categories is something that happens too much or too fast. And so if something's coming at you too much, too fast, there's no way you can process what's happening. And there might be times in people's life where they have so many losses and they all happen within a period of time. It's like, I can't process all of these losses in my life. It's just it's been too much too. Much too fast That can be a car coming at you too, fast, right? Like it doesn't it. Doesn't really matter the actual event itself it the body's experience of That happened too Much, too Fast and I couldn't keep up.

I Couldn't process as it was happening So there's too much, too fast. The other category of experiences that causes a trauma response in the body is too little for too long. Too little of something that you need. And it's just been too, long going without that or going with too. Little of it. and so for those experiences, we can look at, this isn't something to happen too too all popped into one moment in time. This was a long drawn out thing. where, yeah, at first, we're okay. We're not great, but we are okay, But then how long can you be okay without having something that you truly need?

And whether that's food, whether it's water, love, touch, We have needs, and we can be ok for a period of time, And everybody's body is different. So everybody decides what their too long is, but it's too little of something for too. And the body just can't keep up anymore. It goes into this collapse and that collapse is the trauma response in the. And so what's actually happening during that trauma response? Like it's kind of like there's a moment where is there, is it like that where a movement where the needle just flips?

And I mean, we have these, We have this nervous system and it does different things for us. And, so talk a little bit about that. Like what is going on in the body with this response and How do we start to know when things are a little bit spiraling for us? Yeah, and I love sharing this because it helps clarify for people when in their life they experienced a stress and when what they experience was a trauma. because when they go to their healthcare providers, their health care providers they don't know this information about the trauma response and so they may tell them oh you're so stressed when actually no they're in a trauma or they even say oh, you have chronic stress.

when actually it may be trauma. So there's a lot of what I call a misdiagnosis happening, so it's really important that people understand that difference and be able to feel that different in their body so that in any given moment in time, they can check in quickly and say, all right, am I in stress response or am i in the trauma response? Because they are very different and they require a very difference approach. Very different tools. For the stress responses, let's think of that first. And I want people listening to imagine that they're holding up a rock.

And however big you want to make this rock, I don't care. Just you're holdin' up the rock right? And when we're a holding things up, it's stressful. And we're thinking about, okay, what do I need to do next? How do not have this rock fall? Like, how do hold all the pieces together? You know, it's a very active process that is energizing. It's energising. And so you may experience that, you know you're constantly thinking. There's this hypervigilance about it where you are super focused on the problem in your life.

Because you solving a problem, like you actively engaged in the process. Now, when the trauma response happens, and you are right that it is just that momentary change in our physiology that happens when sympathetic nervous system, which is controlling our stress response, our body decides that can't hold up that rock any longer. And that the best way for us to survive this is actually just to let the rock fall, even though it's going to crush us in the process. So in that moment, there is this felt internal sensation of a collapse and a person, their physiology, they're biology goes from a very high metabolic state, high energy state.

I've got energy, I'm holding this rock up, i'm going keep holding the raw cup. What can I do? Who can help me? to I can't anymore, right? And even just as I say those words, I feel it in my own body, like there's just this collapse of energy. I Can't Anymore. And the body goes into a trauma posture and the trauma postures where your shoulders come down, you kind of double over your stomach, your head comes down. People will also recognize this as the shame posture because shame is the Trauma response.

And you feel the draining of your energy. And now you start to have thoughts of, I can't do this anymore. What's the point? I don't care anymore! that are very different in the stress response. In the response, oh, you care, and you a lot, because you have the energy to care. Because you the have energy do something about it. And the trauma response what changes in your body is that you don't have that energy.

How Trauma Becomes Biological 12:40

You don t have to energy care and don' t do anything about. So what this looks like This may be when a person becomes super irritable with everybody and just wants to push everybody away. They snap at people. Well, why are they snapping? Isn't that, you know, expressing that they're stressed? No, snapping at other people is their attempts to push people away to conserve energy. I just don't have the energy to deal with you right now. You're taking up more energy than what I have to give right. Every bit of my energy is going to just keep me alive right, just to get me through this.

So I don't have any extra energy to give you. So back off. And go do whatever you want to do because right now I don't care. So it's also, you know, the picture that comes to mind is like the mother or the father who's sitting on the couch and their feet are up and maybe they've got a glass of wine out and they're kids are running around and the parents like, just go outside and play. I Don't Care What You Do. Don' Care Where You Go. Just Leave Me Alone. That's the trauma response. And so the difference in the stress and trauma response in regards to sleep is also very evident because if you're in a stress response, you are going to be staying awake because you actively solving a problem and your mind is working out solutions.

In the trauma of response you actually don't want to get up. You want be asleep. you want stay asleep You don't want to get up in the morning. Now your thoughts can still be on that hamster wheel. So you can, still have the racing thoughts about the problems and pain. But the difference is, is that you're not really moving towards solutions. You're just letting the thoughts be the hamper wheel, you are not taking action because you don' have energy to. That action is taken when you in this stress response.

And so when people look back at their life, they can see different times when they have felt the stress and the energy of that stress, and I'm going to do something about this. And I am sure that they find times in their lives where they've felt a collapse of, oh my goodness, what just happened? I have no idea what to, I can't do anything. I'm just gonna stay kind of in this shock numbed state. So can you clarify for me, is it linear? Do you go through the stress response and then the trauma response happens and we have to unwind and go back through stress to get back out?

Or can go right to trauma and can get right out of trauma without backing through Oh, I love that question. So there is only one stress response. There's only trauma response because there's one nervous system in the body. Yeah. And so this is a very predictable pattern. Now, what happens is that depending on when a person first started going into the trauma of response or overwhelm, if you want to use that word, That determines how long they're able to stay in that stress response before they go into the trauma response.

And so, yes, you are right that it is a very linear road to the trauma response where if a person is in parasympathetic and that rest and digest and calm and everything is good, I am safe, and I'm secure, even if they're starting in that place and many people are not even starting that in place anymore. But say they are and something happens, there's some type of threat, some kind of danger, whatever it, whether it's real or not, right? The body doesn't know any difference. And they have that initial startle response.

The startles is always the beginning of the stress response, so we look for a startling response when was the first moment that you heard the news? When was first the moment you saw or suspected that something was off? That's the start of response and you can feel even with that, right? It's like this, you know, turning on the ignition, like you're not going anywhere yet in your car, but you are turning the ignitions. You're getting ready to go somewhere. And so there's this activation, meaning there is a little bit of a surge of energy with the startle response.

And then what happens next is so much based on a person's prior life experiences. and how they've been patterned, it's like a habit. Do you stay in the stress response or do you immediately go into the trauma response? Because what should happen is that if the threat and danger is real, you go even higher. So now you're going to put your gas on and you are going move the car. And that's the stress response. And you're, depending on how big the stresses, depend on big this danger is, depends on far your foot is on that gas pedal.

Polyvagal Theory and the Vagus Nerve 18:00

First time, it may be you flooring it, right? You're floering it. Then the trauma response is when the body throws on the emergency brake and comes to a screeching halt. Now your feet can still be on a pedal, but the emergency break is on. So you're not getting anywhere. And for many people, they started experiencing overwhelm in early life before they even had words to describe what they felt. Talk about not being able to process what's happening. And so in those circumstances, the pattern that I see in their nervous system is that they're not able be in that stress response for long.

Why? Because they have been trained. It's almost a belief system that any stress is too big for me. Because when they were little, when there were a little babies, that was their truth. Any stress was too big for them. But it became such a habit that now that they've grown up. their mind and body didn't get the memo. And so when a stress happens, they immediately go, yes, start a response, stress, and then immediately into that trauma response where they may not even feel that stress response first because it happened so quickly that they went into the trauma of response.

But that's only for those people who've had that habit and pattern of feeling that any stress is too big for them. So they immediately should just go into the trauma response and go in to the low energy state. But for everyone else, we do spend time in that stress response. And then if we get overwhelmed, We go under the Trauma Response. Coming out of the Trama Response,we do go back where we came from. We actually are going to go up into stress. Now's our chance to assess the danger that we didn't assess before because we shut down.

We get a look at what this threat was that couldn't look out before, because were in shutdown. And as we then complete that and come back to a felt sense of safety, whether we're taking action and movement in our life, or the threat or danger has passed, and so we can come to that felt of sense safety. and support after that. As you were talking, this memory came up for me of when I was leaving our middle son at preschool and he didn't want to stay and the teacher was just like, just leave him. He'll just cry for a minute.

And you know what, Dr. Amy, I haven't thought about this and he's now 19. Do you what I mean? This is like 15 years ago. And that's what came up for me as I was walking down the hallway in that school, hearing him cry, Mommy, don't go. I'm thinking this is what he needs. He needs to start to understand that I will always come back. But in the little mind of his, that like that was trauma and so thank you for helping me see that because I feel like sometimes there's these societal norms that are put on us as women as parents as dads as you know whatever role we're playing that that's just how it is and they just need to learn that and What do you, those sorts of childhood attachments, and now as you've defined it, trauma, because that was too much too soon for him, right?

He's like, don't want to be here. And even in your bio, you talk about this as being biological, not psychological. Can you touch on that a little bit? Yeah. So, the experiences that we have in our life that are overwhelming, what happens is that it becomes patterns in biology. This now becomes the pattern in the nervous system. And our nervous systems is what drives all of our health, all our of health. And one of the big mistakes that I see people making is that they've come to the conclusion that the experienced trauma in some way.

They need to do work, they need go into their childhood or do whatever it is they feel that need do. But the way that their doing it, is only using their mind, talking about it. Analyzing it trying to process what happened by using words and logic that has nothing to do with the trauma response of, I felt overwhelmed, and this is the body sensation of being overwhelmed. And so even just by talking about it, for one, they can re-traumatize themselves, right? Going back into this story, talking out the story without having any way to create a different felt experience about the And, you know, trying to tell ourselves that we feel safe does not actually make us feel save.

Trying to tells ourselves we should feel supported, that, we have, people who love us, does actually not make feel lovable. So these things that have resorted to using logic and Analysis is never going to reach the depths of these felt experiences, and that's what we need to change. And so that the work that needs to happen is going into the biology of what was that experience of overwhelm? How did it affect my body? And then what see is that trauma, just by definition of trauma. It doesn't allow the body to just bounce back.

like it bounces back from stress just by the fact that it is trauma and it Is such a change in our biology from a high energy state to a low energy State. It causes lasting effects in Our biology and so again, how are you going to change those effects? by just talking and using logic on how you should feel differently or how should have a different perspective or a difference angle. Let's reframe your childhood, but how is that going to actually change these chronic lasting effects on your biology that will keep the body in that place of overwhelm?

And so what we see is that the more that you try to just use psychology rather than your biology, the most you actually disconnect your mind from what's happening in your body. And your bodies over here trying to get through life, doing it the best that it can. Yeah, betraying us quite a bit because it doesn't have what it needs, but yet the mind is like, what are you talking about? You have everything that need. You should feel safe. And so that's where like the mindset, the motivation, The mantras, like those kinds of things can be helpful.

And I'm not saying that they're not helpful at all, but they are not going to rewire. the overwhelming experiences that have been stored in our body and have now created lasting effects in biology. So tell us a little bit about how you apply the polyvagal theory to medicine. First of all, again, let's define the theory for our audience.

Trauma, Immunity, and Chronic Illness 25:40

Yeah, so this was something that changed my life and I am surprised that it still hasn't permeated more of medicine. So let's start with what is the Polyvagal Theory. Poly vagal theory was developed by Dr. Steven Porges and so he was actually working in the neonatal ICU and this experiences that he found that really shaped his understanding of the human body and what it does to survive. And so what he I want to say two origins of the vagus nerve, and many people are familiar with the Vagus nerve.

If you're not, it's a cranial nerve tan. It comes out of your brain stem and it drives your health. That's what keeps you alive. your kidneys functioning, like your vagus nerve is what runs all of those automatically for you, thankfully, right? So you don't have to think about it. And the vagous nerve, is also what run your gut. So we've always known about this parasympathetic state, and we talk about in terms of your rest and digest state. That is all due to the Vagus nerve. And so we've had this focus and understanding on the parasympathetic vagus nerve.

But then what Dr. Stephen Porteous brought into light was that there is both a ventral and a dorsal origin of this vagous nerve, which means that the ventral, which just means the front side. So it's the one that's facing forward. When communication goes down that pathway, yes, it turns on our sense of safety, our since of community. We want to connect with people. Our digestive system is working well. we can sleep well, we are truly at our best health and we're living our lives. when communication is happening in that ventral parasympathetic vagus nerve.

But then there's this other origin, and it's called the dorsal vagous nucleus. And when the communication goes down that, it distills the same nerve, But when communication comes from that origin, that is what communicates this trauma response and the shutdown. And now that same nerve that just a minute ago was promoting our best health is now promoting shutting down. By shutting I mean going from the high energy state to the very, very low energy where we're just getting through. It shuts down the digestive system.

And our breathing becomes shallow and slow because the vagus nerve drives our lungs. Our heartbeat normally will go slow as well. And everything else in the body down to the cellular level, it has turned on the mechanism for conservation of energy because that is what the Body has decided is the best way to survive this experience. It's like the emergency break that I was talking about. The body pulling on that emergency brake is switching the communication to the dorsal vagus nerve. And so when we talk about the trauma response, this is how the response is communicated throughout the entire body.

That's why a person, if they are in tune with their body, can actually feel the moment that that trauma happens. Because they can feel that change happening in their physiology where they go from stressed and then the crushing weight of the rock or that collapse of energy. And all of that, the collapse the energy is communicated through that dorsal nucleus of Vegas nerve. So understanding that there's two of those. that they that you have the ventral and so yes you, have this vagus nerve that also promotes health when there is a felt sense of safety but when, there, is danger that's going to trigger the sympathetic nervous system but, when that danger feels overwhelming Ah, now you've got this third state that helps us survive and it shuts down everything.

And that's the polyvagal theory. So how do I see this in medicine? My goodness. There are actually many diseases that are strongly associated with this dorsal vagus response or the trauma response, chronic pain. fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, autoimmune conditions. These are just a short list of the diseases that are a result of body frequently going into this collapse and this trauma response through the dorsal nucleus. And so for people who have any of these issues, which again, this is a very, very common issues in our world today, I think it is so helpful for them to understand that, wait a second, This actually isn't a result of stress.

These are a results of overwhelming experiences. We're dealing with overwhelm. We are not dealing stress. So let's start working on the overwhelms and seeing what tools we can apply for that. would you think that when this when I was first learning about nerves like this is back from my health teacher in high school and I remember her saying

Somatic Healing as a Starting Point 31:20

like there are when when a nerve gets overstimulated and of course I we lived in Canada so she's like imagine it like we got a big winter storm we couldn't get out of our street and then the big you know the Big Plow comes through and everybody can go easily up and down the street versus being that first truck or car that gets onto the street and you're kind of hoping you don't get hung up on the snow. Can you be more, and I don' want to say predisposed, but if you get into this cycle of the trauma response, are you going to be supporting the ventral part of that nerve so that snowplow is going there and there's more happening through that part the vagus nerve?

The patterns that I see is that many people will go back and forth between stress and overwhelm, sometimes several times in a single day. And many of them will test their cortisol levels and they'll see that their course of levels are high. I mean, like, see, I'm stressed, or they will their test cortisol level and their core is always low. See, have adrenal fatigue. No, no, neither one of those. The cortisol is, yes, in response to the stress response, but that doesn't mean that you're not also going into the trauma response.

But the cortisol's not that fast of a responder, so it still will stay high because you had all of that adrenaline from the stressed. And then what happens is that over more time, your body doesn't have the energy to even give a good stress response. It's now mostly in the trauma response and if you have low cortisol, you are definitely mostly, in a trauma respond. How does this impact our immunity? Like, does it? Oh, totally. Absolutely. Yeah, and this is again like a misunderstanding that I have seen in medicine.

So, What we have what I was taught right like I'll just share that what? I? Was taught in medical school and in residency and still in the literature today is that oh stress and chronic stress causes immune problems and wears down your immune system and may even result in autoimmunity. And actually what happens is that when you look at the role of cortisol, when look look the roll of adrenaline, those things actually increase, improve your system. So stress improves your immunity system, and that's why you never get sick when your studying for the test.

when you're reaching for that deadline, right? When is it that you get sick? It's afterwards when that cortisol is gone. So it's not stress. That's a big misunderstanding. If a person is having chronic immune inflammation, autoimmune conditions, that is the trauma response because it is shutting down the normal protective and actually boosting effects of stress on the immune system. So that is one way that we can kind of get a glimpse, a lens into a person's system and the degree to which trauma is playing a role in their life is let me see your immune systems.

Is there a biology that does predispose us to experiencing trauma or is that a myth? Well, we go back to that definition of trauma, right? That it's anything that for any reason overwhelmed us at that time. And so what if you do have some exposures that you had in utero or in early life? What if you had lead exposure? What If you have toxins? Like what if, right? like what If You have food sensitivities, Right? Where is your biology at? Your biology is already doing everything that it can to fight those stressors.

You add on one more stress and it's overwhelming. And so yes, there are different biology factors that actually Stress the body out stress the nervous system out in such a way that it makes it vulnerable it Makes it weak so that any other stress that other people would be able to get through and it just be a stress for them And they grow from that experience because it stayed in a healthy stress zone for then it completely overwhelms them So for the people who are watching us here, I believe there are no such thing as coincidences.

And I hope that some of what Dr. Amy is sharing with us, everyone, is resonating with you. You might be asking the same question in my mind. So where? What's the first step? And, you know, your 21-day program is you know, really frames this for people to go through the journey. But I just wonder, is there one thing that you can give us that someone watching this can be like, where do I even start? Yeah, so I played around with this, for quite some time, right? Because this as you started saying in my introduction, like this was my personal experience.

This was not something that I had the luxury of just learning about. Like this Where do I start and is this even possible to change as an adult or is it too late? And of all the different things that I've tried and experimented with, I have found that there's one thing that seems to make the biggest difference. And so I started there and I had everybody start there. Now it is just the starting place. So I don't want someone to think that this is all there is to it. This is truly just a place to start.

But for me, that is body work or what I call somatic work, where you actually learn how to notice and track your own nervous system so that you know which of those states of your nervous systems are you in right now. Are you parasympathetic? Are in a stress response right? Now just right. Now are in trauma response. Right now and then let's give you some very basic skills tools exercises movements that work directly with the nervous to be able to shift it and create a felt sense of safety in the moment internally so that regardless of your external circumstances, In any given moment, you can immediately create a felt sense of safety and support for yourself.

And that way you're not waiting, next week or two weeks when your therapist has a spot available for you to go in and see them. You're having to shut things down in the moment and wait until you process things later. Like in that moment you need to have the tools to create an internal felt-sense of and an internal felt sense of support. So that's where I start, and I had everybody else start now with somatic work. Okay.

Mindset, Self-Check-Ins, and Closing Thoughts 38:30

And I want to ask, as you've been, you know, sharing your experience and your wisdom with us, I think you touched on a few of these, but I'm going to get you to bring it back together here. What do you think is not being talked about enough in your area of expertise? Trauma. Just trauma. Trauma is not being talked about enough and it's been labeled as stress. And there are very different tools for stress and there very are different for trauma, they are not the same tools because they're not same biology.

So as long as we're calling it stress, we are going to miss the mark and we aren't going be as effective. we're going to hurt some people in the process because we are going give them the tools for stress when what they really need are the tool for the trauma response. So trauma, but then also just the difference between stress and trauma. All right. You make it so clear and I appreciate that. I want to ask one more question before we wrap our conversation. You mentioned the starting point being, you know, some, as some sort of somatic tool for people to get in touch with their body.

What do you, since we're really celebrating mindset, we are dissecting mindset this week and we just, honoring it wherever we, wherever are right now with this concept of mindset. what do, what can you share with us about something that you do in your own life? that gives that mindset part of your life a little boost. For me, it's helping get my mind down into my body. And I have lived in my head for so long, that's where it was safe for me to be. That was my safe place in childhood. Give me a book, give me something to study, something memorize.

But don't make me feel. Put me in my head where I can think. And so for me, it's this conscious mindset of I now put my attention on different areas of my body and just check in, right? Like stomach. Stomach, how are you doing today? Is there anything that you need today?" Feet, right? Like, and actually checking in, like putting my mind's attention on these different areas of my body to intentionally check in and see, what can I do for you today. You have done so much for me. What can i do? Oh gosh, it's so good.

And I think what I always, as I, do the little, you know, the review in my, mind of where this conversation went over the last 45 minutes, One of the things that I appreciate the most was the definition of trauma and how you so beautifully defined the too much too fast and the not enough for too long. Because I truly believe, like, if you would have asked me before this conversation, have you had traumatic experiences? And I would think, I gave birth to three babies, was that traumatic? I mean, it was painful and, you know, the result was beautiful.

And, would actually have said, nothing that I have defined as trauma. and you've given me this new frame to work within because I do. I've experienced where I am like go, go go and the stress response and I'll say the words like I just got to push through till Friday. And once Saturday comes, I'm home free. But by Saturday, yeah, i'm in my cocoon and everyone's like mom let's go do this and iIm like uh no i'll see and so thank you for gifting that to me because i feel like Now it's on my radar and I can recognize it and again, I acknowledge it.

I need to teach you some tools now for the trauma response. Yes, exactly. That's exactly it! I know there's people that are googling you right now, so where's the best place for our audience to connect with you, learn more about you and your programs and how they can get started with? Yeah, the best place is my website, which is traumahealingaccelerated.com. So head on over to Trauma Healing Accelerated, a bunch more resources, more ideas, and more concepts to share with you to just kind of open up your eyes and some resources.

So good. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing your wisdom and your expertise. You know, you impacted us over this last 45 minutes, so thank you very much. Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your well-being. For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website, www.doctortalks.com. Stay connected, stay healthy, and join us next time on Doctor Talks, Real Talk from Real Doctors, on the issues that matter to you most.