Understanding The Trauma Of Diabetes

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Thank you so much, Dr. Yates. I appreciate it greatly. It is a privilege to be here with you all, and I am excited to share my knowledge with you all and just make your lives easier and better.

Beverly Yates, ND

Great. I am curious; your background is just so rich around this topic. What got you interested specifically in diabetes and mental health?

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Yes, good question. I myself am a Type 2 diabetic, and I have been involved in the diabetes world and have been diabetic myself for 20 years or so. When I started my career in mental health, I noticed all of the experiences that I was having without any support. It really was in the last couple of years that I was looking into, Why is there not enough support for us diabetics, such as mental health support providers that understand the link between diabetes and mental health? I decided that I wanted to share my knowledge and support people. I decided to specialize in diabetes and mental health. This past year I was on the Committee of the Diabetes Mental Health Conference and the Planning Committee, and I spoke about trauma and diabetes and really just interacting with people and hearing their stories, and those sorts of things just really inspired me to specialize in this even more.

Beverly Yates, ND

That is great. That is wonderful to know. I have always thought that there are so many things about health that are not obvious until they are either a lived experience or a crisis. If we have a moment, just take a breath, quite literally, and step back and think about what it is we need to do, change, or shift. It seems to me that bringing forward the things that people struggle with—the stuff that maybe is not obvious, that is on the inside, not the outside—is where we can really do a great service to people.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Absolutely. Just because the number of people being diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes is increasing, that means that it is going to require more education, more awareness, and definitely more mental health support. Being able to say, I am a clinician, I am a provider, I have diabetes, and I understand it. With that, and with having diabetes, I understand the mental health struggles and the physical struggles, and just being that link, that support for people who have no one, is really just my main mission. My main part of the reason why I do what I do is because I want to connect with people. I want to help people, and I want to know their support is out there for them. I want them to know that.

Beverly Yates, ND

Absolutely. That is great. I salute you for that. It is so cool, and what a difference it makes in the quality of someone’s life, that is for sure. What are the connections that you see between patients who have diabetes and their mental health?

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Absolutely. The connections that I see definitely surround functioning. I am seeing a lot of depression. I am seeing a lot of anxiety, mostly surrounding hypo episodes. When our blood sugar drops below 80, we are having a hypoglycemia episode. When that happens, our body responds. When our body responds, our mind catches up and goes, Okay, I should look at my CGM, I should look at my meter, I should test. That should be the first thing we do. But sometimes we are not doing that. Sometimes we are just panicking and going, and I do not know what to do. I cannot think; I cannot get juice or run; I cannot get something to eat. I just need to sit here and sit in my anxiety. just having more awareness around hypo episodes. that causes anxiety for people, and seeing what happens and seeing those symptoms also shows how diabetes and blood sugar affect our mood. We have to decide whether that affects our mood, and when we have sugars that go up and down, that also affects our mood. The other thing that I see a lot of is diabetes burnout. It is, and I do not want to test anymore. I do not want to eat right. I do not want to look at my CGM, and I am tired of hearing those alerts go off. That is a lot of what I see as well: this burnout with being diabetic because it requires so much energy and time. One of the things that I love to do with my patients that I work with is talk a lot about self-care because, as a diabetic, the number one thing that you can do for yourself to avoid burnout and try to minimize those mental health symptoms is self-care.

Beverly Yates, ND

Absolutely. It is critical. It is number one on the list. Yes, absolutely. Something I have noticed over the years of my career, and I am certain you have noticed this as well, is that around self-care, do you find that people feel a little shy about putting themselves first?

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Absolutely. There is this misconception that self-care is selfish and that, Oh, I cannot possibly take care of myself. That is not the case. Self-care is not selfish. I describe it to my patients as using their cell phone as an example. You have to recharge your cell phone in order for it to work. It is the same for us. We have to recharge ourselves, and that is self-care. It is recharging, taking a break, planning meals, taking a rest, maybe even taking a nap. But it is also about making sure that our blood sugars are as stable as they can be and making good choices.

Beverly Yates, ND

Yes, absolutely. Well said. Thank you for that. I think that I mean today’s herky-jerky, super-busy world. There are just so many obstacles and challenges, and sometimes just really difficult moments, that people have to navigate day after day after day. You have talked about burnout. It just seems like something that is going to be part of the journey.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

It definitely is. Burnout is something that is unfortunately part of our journey as diabetics. But it is part of our, our families, and our loved ones journeys as well. Because the other thing that I really see and work with patients on is putting up boundaries because they have family members, spouses, or kids that do not understand that sometimes they have to take a minute and have juice, or they have to take a minute and drink water, or they have to plan a little bit because they may have a high episode or a low episode, or they may be feeling fatigued because it is hot out and they cannot be outside any more that day. Putting up boundaries and realizing that burnout is definitely for us who have diabetes, but it can also extend to our loved ones and the people we live with and that are around because it is tiring having to monitor ourselves, monitor our sugars, eat, exercise, and try to find all of these balances that we have in our lives. Absolutely. It is about putting up those boundaries but also being able to advocate for ourselves and for what we need.

Beverly Yates, ND

Yes, absolutely. That advocacy is necessary. We advocate for ourselves or for others, but especially for ourselves, I think, for any of our health care needs, whether it is diabetes, thyroid issues, other metabolic concerns, asthma, or arthritis. Whatever it is, being able to put words to it, or if you need to bring someone with you who can put words to it, seems to be an essential skill to really get what you need from the medical system.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Yes, absolutely. Part of the thing that we talk about a lot in sessions is how to be our own advocates. Because what I tell patients all the time is that you are the expert in your own life. You know how diabetes affects you. You know everything about that. The doctor sees numbers. The doctor sees numbers, sees your chart, and sees a pattern in what is going on with your blood sugars. But this every-day, moment-to-moment life stuff—you are the expert in that. Being able to advocate and say this medication is not working for me or I think I am having too much of a high dose of insulin because I am not feeling right, and being able to have those conversations with the doctor so that they can get the best care because the doctor’s job is Okay, I am going to help you manage it. But they only know what they see, and they are only looking at the numbers. Often they are not looking at, Okay, you as a person, tell me about your diabetes burnout. The doctors do not normally have time to ask that. But if you say to the doctor, I am feeling a little burned out, do you have any resources? What can I do? Then you are having the conversation, and they are getting to know you and how you are dealing with diabetes, or maybe the resources you need as a diabetic.

Beverly Yates, ND

That is great. We can only coach, support, and care for one another. For ourselves, if we are the ones that have this problem or other chronic health problems, just keeping your heart, your spirit, and your head in the game is really part of a large part of that journey. How can we provide practical support for those with diabetes?

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Yes, absolutely. Practical support, I think, encompasses the first part, education, not only educating ourselves about what diabetes really is but also helping to educate the doctors and other individuals that may be on our medical team, as well as our family members, friends, and coworkers. For me, this is what diabetes looks like, and these are the things that I need to take care of. On the other side of that is being able to talk about it with a professional who understands. Diabetes education and care specialists are going to be there to coach you. They are going to be there to talk with you about nutrition. 

Oftentimes, they are such a great resource. But also having a provider—a psychologist or a therapist who specializes in diabetes—so that you can go to them and say, This is what I am feeling. Can you help me figure out why I am feeling this way? Or are these the thoughts that I am having? Can we process that? Can we talk about these thoughts? Also, part of our job as providers is to normalize that it is hard being a diabetic, having to do all the things that we have to do: monitor, pay attention, plan, and all of these things. It is hard, like any other medical condition that somebody may have, like diabetes. It is hard, and we need to be validated in that. It is hard, but we also need to be validated and supported so that we can do it and are capable of doing it.

Beverly Yates, ND

Absolutely. That line needs to be walked in, walked together. Do you think that discussing diabetes and mental health with providers, doctors, and other members of the care team will help increase patient care?

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

I honestly do. I think that the more of us as patients go to our doctors and say, These are my symptoms; this is what I am feeling; this is what I am experiencing, it will help us get better care. Absolutely.

Beverly Yates, ND

Yes, that makes sense. Bringing it together, I know that in the context of office visits, sometimes they are so brief that it is just, Wow.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

That is the other thing. It does not have to be brief. We can say to the doctor, Hey, can you wait a minute? I have some questions or need some help with something. I know that you have looked at my meter and everything, but I have some questions about these things, or I am struggling with this and need help with it. It is almost as if we have become conditioned not to ask for help. We have become so conditioned that we just go to the doctor, and they tell us what to do. That is not exactly what we need to do. We again have to look at it individually; this is what I am dealing with, and this is what I need help with. You are the expert doctor, so please help me. Help me figure out what I need.

Beverly Yates, ND

Exactly. Maybe communicate in advance if it is supposed to be a brief visit. That is the next level or two up. You have the time. Insist that they carve out that time.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Absolutely. To start off with, the doctor’s going to ask, Why are you here? What is going on? You can start off and say, I have some questions. Would you like to talk about that now, or would you like to talk about it at the end and then remind the doctor and say, We started off today, and I have some questions? You answered some of them, but maybe I have some other questions or additional questions. But that goes back to the fact that we are allowed to advocate for ourselves. We are allowed to ask questions of our health care providers.

Beverly Yates, ND

This is great. When we are thinking about the mental health aspects—maybe hidden aspects of trauma specific to diabetes care—how do you see these connections that develop between trauma and diabetes?

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Absolutely. Great question. When we are talking about trauma, we are talking first about our bodies. Whenever we have a traumatic experience, our body is always going to respond first, and then our mind catches up and goes, Oh, something is going on. I am not sure what is going on. Then we start assessing, doing our own assessment: Oh, I am sweaty, or my heart’s racing, or I feel like I want to run, or I cannot do anything. I am just going to freeze here. Sometimes it is related to our blood sugars; for example, in a hypo episode, if our blood sugar is low, we have symptoms of fatigue, brain fog, and low energy. Sometimes we do not know what is going on, or we cannot hardly walk. Our body is basically saying, Okay, I am going to shut down. We are not thinking clearly. When we have a hypo episode and we continue to go through this, the anxiety is going to increase, which is again when we have an increase in our anxiety. Now we are getting to the point where I do not know what is going on. I think I am feeling panicked or anxious; is it my blood sugar or what is going on? That can cause trauma over time if we have this continued pattern of anxiety and do not know what it is. That is just one of the links that I see a lot: having hypo episodes.

The other thing is medical trauma. Medical trauma is huge. Medical trauma is related to any issue that we have that is also related to our diabetes and how we are treated during that medical trauma. How we are treated by providers. But do we have support there with us, or are we doing it alone? That in itself, having to go through it alone, can cause trauma. Looking at medical traumas, the other thing is that, for example, if we have a dental issue or an eye issue or they are telling us, Oh, your limb is not getting enough circulation, or whatever it may be, hearing those things can be traumatic, as can not knowing what to do with them. How am I going to do this? You are telling me that this is going on with my body, and I am not sure what to do. When we look at those types of things, basic trauma related to eye to diabetes has a lot to do with experiencing things repeatedly with, for example, hypo episode, hypo anxiety, and medical trauma is another big one. It is about how our brain and our body become very disconnected. Part of treatment is reconnecting those—reconnecting our brain with our body. Teaching coping skills—how to work through the trauma, how to process trauma.

Beverly Yates, ND

This all makes sense. I think of some of the things that patients have shared with me over the years. One of the things I think that leads to burnout and the understandable sometimes just exhaustion of having to deal with all the things because it is such a daily issue with blood sugar is when people get on the blood sugar rollercoaster and let us say they go hyper, so they have a moment of a high blood sugar spike, the hypoglycemia, and then the inevitable rollercoaster crash back down. Now they are in hypoglycemia only, and usually there is a range of emotions that go with that. It may or may not be preceded by being hungry. What are your thoughts about a person’s maybe more inner experiences and what they probably need to tell someone that is happening? Because unless it is happening, I do not think most people, if they have not experienced that, have any idea what those struggles are.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Absolutely. Going from a hyper episode where we are high, we are above at least 150. Now, our blood sugar level is probably up to 200 or above for having a hyper episode. When we get there, it is usually because we are feeling tired, but tired of saying, Oh, I am feeling a little sleepy. Then, when the crash begins to start and we start dropping or plummeting, our bodies are going through this change. I am feeling tired too now. I am probably feeling some anxiety, and I am feeling there is a change happening in my body, and I do not know what is going on. I am angry about it, or I might be scared, or I do not know what is going on. Maybe we do not know that the first thing we should do is check our blood sugar. if we see that arrow dropping. Oh, okay, I am dropping. What can I do? Maybe I need to sit down. Maybe I need to have some water. Maybe I just need to take a rest for a second. But the range of emotions—I think that is such a great example. The range of emotions goes from tired to sleepy to saying, Oh, I am panicking because I am dropping and I do not know what to do, and I need to figure out what I need to do.

In that panic feeling, or the feeling that maybe I am hungry, maybe I am tired, or maybe I am feeling something else, we are figuring out how we are feeling. The best thing we can do to figure that out is look at our meter or our CGM and see where our sugar is. Because of that example of feeling that high or low, we know that, as individuals who have diabetes, we know what that feeling is. We know when our body is off, and if something is off, it is very hard to communicate why it is off. It could be that we are tired, hungry, or thirsty. Or maybe we need to go work out or walk because we are having a hyper episode and we need to get our sugar down a little bit. There is so much in there about going from high to low and experiencing that range of emotions. It is very individualized, but we can probably generalize some of the feelings I mentioned about what a person is going through.

Beverly Yates, ND

That is really great. I would like to share this patient story with you and get your insights on it because I think it is going to really help us with this conversation, and I think it will help people on the summit. I am hopeful they will be nodding their heads in recognition. Years ago, early in my career, I had a patient who had Type 2 diabetes, had it for a long time, and was really, honestly, so used to feeling crappy and really bad that they were pretty much feeling hopeless, and they did not really think this could change for them. 

One of the things I could not help but notice was just what you were saying earlier, Dr. Martin-Schantz, about people’s fatigue with not wanting to even look at the data. They do not want to do any of their blood sugar checks; they may not want to get their eyes checked, their teeth checked, their dentistry done, their feet checked, or their limbs checked. It seems they just get sick of it all. In this particular patient’s case, he was terrified of needles. Always had been. 

This was actually before the days of the CGM. The need for the constant finger sticks and using the glucometer and test strips was still quite real. CGM, thank God, just helps with that issue. But in this person’s case, why even bother going to all these various doctors and health professionals? Because I know the news will be bad. It was with doom and anticipation that there was no good news. What was the point? Feeling just trapped, I think, in that box. At the time, I did not have the knowledge or the tools to really speak to that. I would handle it differently. Now. I wonder, what are your thoughts around coping skills? Because I think people do feel traumatized by constantly having to be on the hamster wheel of self-care and maybe not always getting the reward from their efforts that they would.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Absolutely. Part of what I heard you say is that he really was stuck in this negative narrative that diabetes was something so negative and that there was no hope for him. Coping skills can come in and provide Okay, there are positives. Let us look at those positives. Let us talk about some positives. Instead of looking at it as something negative, I am going to hear the same information, and I am going to have to do this, and it is hopeless. How can we build hope? We can build hope by using positive self-talk, by changing the narrative from negative to positive, and in changing that narrative, we have to hold on to something that gives us purpose, if we can find something that gives our life purpose, such as I can choose to negatively look at my diabetes, or I can change the narrative to say, Today I am choosing me; today I am choosing to be the hero of my own life, and I am choosing to go to one doctor today, and I am choosing to get my feet checked, and you know what? It is going to be fine. Whatever happens, I will be okay. If I have questions, I know I can ask them, and maybe I am going to do some self-care after the doctor. Maybe I am going to go and take a walk or maybe grab a coffee, or something like that.

But changing that narrative is the biggest coping skill that we can give ourselves because it sometimes feels so negative and hopeless. It is not, though. It is not. We can choose positivity every day and be our own heroes. That is something that I tell my patients all the time. You can be that hero for your own life, and you are allowed to say, Not today, I am. I am choosing positive today. I am going to cope with this. I know I can deal with it. Yes, that is just one of the ways, or multiple ways, that I see that coping skills can help. Part of self-care is learning coping skills as well. If you have a self-care routine, you go to the doctor, then you get some self-care, and you balance that. Self-care is okay. This is how I can cope with it.

Beverly Yates, ND

Absolutely. Those are all very important steps. Thank you for sharing that with us. I am curious to hear your thoughts about this. What is the difference between these? What are hypo response and hyper responses like hypoglycemia, low blood sugar, and hyperglycemia, high blood sugar? What do they have to do with the brain? We know that what is going on in the brain, to some degree, is actually reflecting our emotions. But there are things that happen in the brain independent of our emotions.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Yes, absolutely. What happens is that our nervous systems—our parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems—are activating. When that happens, when we have a high or low, the nervous system activates in different parts of our body are going to respond, and the brain goes, Okay, am I feeling anxious or am I feeling depressed? Usually, we vacillate between the two, between anxiousness and depression. Our body responding first is going to be, Okay, what in our body is responding? If we are feeling sweaty, hot, and fatigued, that could mean we are having a hypo episode, or if we are outside working out, we could be having a hyper episode. Your body responding is the first signal that we should check our sugar to see where our numbers are and where our range is. Where our good range is supposed to be. Once we check that and see, Okay, this is where our sugar is, then we can begin to assess everything else. But really, it is about that individual realizing, Okay, what am I doing? Let me check my sugar, because this is how I am feeling. The body’s response is always going to come first.

Beverly Yates, ND

This makes sense. With this, let us take a look at a category where I think people are not always sure what these things really mean. We want to be sure people have clarity. What is the difference? First, before we even get to that, here is the real thing: We know people respond differently to foods. People can eat healthy nutrition, and some people will have a fine or fabulous blood sugar reaction. It is not going to be the right thing for them. But we know that it is not one size fits all, as much as people will want to put out one generic nutritional plan and have it work for all humans. It is not like that.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Yes. 

Beverly Yates, ND

We all know this, certainly as clinicians and just as human beings. We know that we can react differently, and people can experience something that would be considered traumatic and react differently. What is the difference between an acute trauma and what is known as PTSD, or post-traumatic stress disorder? 

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Good question. Acute stress disorder occurs immediately after we have experienced trauma. With acute stress disorder, we have to experience something that is life-changing or a traumatic incident, either by seeing it or directly experiencing it. PTSD comes three months after the traumatic incident, and at that three-month mark and beyond, we have post-traumatic stress disorder. When we have nightmares or flashbacks, we see someone die or feel like we are going to die. Those are some of the qualifiers that are different for PTSD and that are much different than acute stress. That is something that I see a lot, too: everybody wants to come to my office and say, Oh, I have PTSD.  Then I go back and say, Okay, when did this happen? When did your symptoms start? 

If your symptoms started immediately after the traumatic event, you are going to have acute stress. But acute stress is not something that is talked about. All we hear about is PTSD. We do not hear about acute stress or knowing the difference. After that three-month mark again, the PTSD symptoms usually start to get worse. That is when we can be officially diagnosed with PTSD. It has to be in that time frame. I explain the diagnosis of us as clinicians. We have qualifiers that we diagnose people with, just like doctors do, and you have to meet those qualifiers so you can have symptoms such as nightmares or symptoms of PTSD without actually being diagnosed with PTSD.

Beverly Yates, ND

Okay. I think that that will really help people because folks throw these terms around and they mean very specific things.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Yes. 

Beverly Yates, ND

When we think about diabetes, one of the topics that often comes up but that people do not get a lot of information about is depression or anxiety and whether or not that is related to acute trauma or true PTSD. Can you help walk us through this?

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Yes. Depression and anxiety are very common in people who have diabetes. They just are because of everything we deal with on a regular basis. As I said before, having those hypo episodes, those low episodes, can cause anxiety and anxiety symptoms. With PTSD, normally in my office, the patients that I work with those patients that have officially been diagnosed with PTSD, whether it is acute or chronic, also have anxiety symptoms and depression symptoms. They may also have a major depressive disorder or generalized anxiety disorder. When you have PTSD, you are going to have symptoms of depression and anxiety as well. It is because the traumatic event not only causes post-traumatic stress, meaning flashbacks and nightmares, but it also causes our body to respond. when our body responds. We are feeling panic, which is anxiety. When our body responds and we are like, Oh, no, I am going to hide, I am getting in bed and going to sleep. That is depression.

Beverly Yates, ND

Okay, that is crystal clear. We get it. Thank you. With these distinctions in mind, people are thinking, Oh, wow, I recognize myself, or Oh, gee, I did not know that. This person that I love or that I care about, or my dear friend, might be going through all this. I wish I had had more insight. Now I do. What is it? Can you walk us through what it is like to work with a therapist to resolve these traumas? Because I personally believe everyone deserves to be well, healthy, and happy. But I know some of us absolutely need more support and more tools. What is it like to work with a therapist to resolve these issues?

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Absolutely. When you work with a therapist who specializes in trauma, you are going to learn coping skills and you are going to be talking about the traumatic events. You are going to be talking, you are going to be processing, and you are going to problem solve. They are going to listen. You are going to find solutions; that is the basic of it when you come into therapy. Now, if somebody like myself specializes in EMDR, which is eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, this is a type of treatment that is the leading trauma treatment for PTSD, and it is also trauma treatment for any other type of trauma, such as a recent traumatic event, something that may have happened over the years, or something that may have happened 20 years ago. For those of us that are trained in EMDR, there is a protocol, there is a process, and I highly recommend that if you have a significant amount of trauma, whether you have childhood trauma or maybe young adult trauma, and you are maybe in your thirties, even depending on how old you are, that you go see somebody who is trained in EMDR and go through a trauma-type treatment. There is also cognitive behavioral therapy, or what we call trauma CBT. That is also a type of treatment. It is different than EMDR because in CBT, we are looking at thoughts, behaviors, and that kind of thing. In EMDR, it is a little bit different. We are basically sitting in the traumatic event for a session and processing it through eye movement or bilateral stimulation.

There are different trauma treatments out there, and I recommend that if you are looking to really process and work through your traumas, you see somebody who is trained in EMDR or certified in trauma CBT, but they are going to talk therapy. You are only going to get so far in processing the trauma. You need some of these other treatments in order to fully resolve the trauma. CBT and EMDR are backed by years of research, and we know they work. That is a common question I get. How does it work? Well, there is a ton of research out there that shows how these treatments work and how they improve people’s lives. Improving functioning is the biggest one.

Beverly Yates, ND

That is super. I think about all the various challenges and obstacles people have in their journey with type 2 diabetes, pre-diabetes, polycystic syndrome, instant resistance, metabolic syndrome, all of these various blood sugar-centric things, and type 1.5 diabetes. People think of the early onset of Alzheimer’s and dementia as being type 3 diabetes. There are so many things that affect blood sugar. When you look at it and think about the mental health aspects, it just seems to me that more people can unlock more tools and resources to work on these things directly so that their own lived experience is better, calmer, and more stable. If it cannot, it can only lead to a healthier outcome that includes better blood sugar control.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Yes, I could not agree more. Absolutely. Sometimes we need that brain-body balance. How we get that brain-body balance is that we have to ask for help in order to do that. Our medical provider, our doctor, and our endocrinology are part of that. But also seeing a therapist and seeing a provider that can help you with the mental health side is finding that balance so you can learn coping skills, increase self-care, and learn what works best for you.

Beverly Yates, ND

That is the important part. Finding out what works best for you your secret decoder ring?

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Yes, that is it.

Beverly Yates, ND

Thank you so much for partnering with me on this summit. It is great to have you here. Just as we wrap, I wonder if there is any one particular tip you would give people as we end around making sure that they take action on finding the help they so richly deserve.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Absolutely. If you are looking for mental health support, there are databases out there. The American Diabetes Association has a database of mental health providers. Psychology Today is also another database that has providers. Social media is a great place to search for and get connected to community resources. One person may know a provider. It might just take a quick search, or if you are scrolling through Instagram or TikTok or something and you see something, message that person, send that provider an email, and say, Hey, I am looking for help. Do you, or can you, help me? They will begin to connect with you. The first tip is just asking for help. Knowing that asking for help is the first step in healing. It is the first step in helping.

Beverly Yates, ND

Super. Thank you so much for being our guest here, Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz. If people want to connect with you, where can they get more information?

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

My Instagram handle is diabetes, state of mind, and that one S is my Instagram handle. I am also on Facebook. You can search for Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz, or it might just be Jennifer Martin-Schantz. I am on Facebook, and I am on LinkedIn. If you want to connect with me, those are great places to do so.

Beverly Yates, ND

Great. Thank you so much for being here. Friends, as you listen to all of our episodes and sessions with marvelous experts, please share this with other people that you know who care about their health or who could benefit from the information. Together, we can work on that goal of reaching, changing, and helping the lives of at least 3 million people who have this growing problem of type 2 diabetes and pre-diabetes and turn that around. This is a chronic illness. I would love to see a whole lot fewer people struggling with it. That would be super.

Dr. Jennifer Martin-Schantz

Absolutely. Yes. It is my privilege to be part of the Reversing Type 2 Diabetes Summit. I am so grateful to be here. I am just looking forward to everybody learning and gaining knowledge and support. I think this is just a wonderful thing you all are doing.