Why Flavonoids & Polyphenols Matter for MS, Migraines, and Cognitive Health

Introduction and Brian Dickersonu2019s Background 0:00

Welcome to another interview for the MS and Autoimmune Summit. I'm Doctor Terry Wahls, your host, and today we're interviewing Brian Dickerson, who is CEO of Flavin. And, Brian is a health care lawyer with 30 years of experience. And he founded the natural health product companies focused on flavonoid based supplements designed to support brain health, wellness, immune health and longevity for humans. So welcome, Brian. Is there anything else that you would like to add? Oh, doc, I think that's a good support and thank you for having me on your show.

It's been an honor. Yeah. So let's talk about flavonoids. What are they? What what kind of compounds are they? So flavonoids are under the polyphenol category. And the flavonoids kind of like when you look at your diet, when you talk about the leafy greens and the, the right, the ripe colors, the purples, the greens, the flavonoids are the plant compounds that protect the plant from oxidative stress, from the sun, from pests. And they are very bioavailable for the plants. It's just getting them bioavailable for us, for humans.

But it's one of the benefits as to why we eat leafy greens, why we eat the bright fruits and vegetables, why oranges and grapefruits are good for us. It's because those polyphenols, the flavonoids like quercetin, which I'm sure everybody of your audience has heard of, are part of those flavonoids that provide that benefit and that help to the plants and cellular. They transfer over and help us when we actually eat those plants. So, you know, for the listeners, the phenol is a ring like structure in poly means you have multiple rings.

For a long time, scientists thought these were not important compounds because they're too big for humans to absorb them. We didn't think they crossed into our bloodstream. So for many, many years,

What Flavonoids Are and Why They Matter 2:06

scientists ignored this as a group. And recently we we will we looked at the epidemiology. We saw the diets that had that were rich in these polyphenols, these foods with ring like structures. They have really much better health outcomes. So we became much more interested in what are they? How is it that these big structures that we can't absorb have such a powerful health impact? So part of what we figured out is that the bacteria in our gut helps to digest, interact with these polyphenols, and then they break them up into smaller compounds that do get into our bloodstream and have really powerful impacts on our health.

So let's do you want to talk about some of those observations that, these polyphenols, these flavonoids have on our health? Well, yes. Like when you're talking specifically about the ring structures, another key component is there's a lot of supplements out there where you can just take the course eating by itself. But when you're eating that plant, those ring features and function within the polyphenols are all combined together from the research helps your body be able to break them down and absorb them more.

And as you just mentioned, doc, there are some polyphenols that break down when they're actually in your mouth. There's other polyphenols that have to go through the bacteria process in your gut, and that's one of the reasons why eating fatty foods with polyphenol is like an avocado or various olive oils helps with the polyphenol breakdown. That's why olive oil mixed with a lot of different, foods helps as well, because olive oil has the polyphenols in my well. And when you look at the various polyphenols, some of them have pure antioxidant capabilities that helps reduce the oxidative stress.

Others have been found to be able to create what I call inflammatory healthy balance. So help balance your inflammation because your body does need some inflammation. And so it helps create that balance. What we have seen as far as people using the products is it helps with the blood flow. It helps with inflammation health. It helps with oxidative stress. For me personally taken the brain health, I have CTE from college football. And I can tell you when I take the brain health watch, that's part of my daily regiment.

I do not have the migraine effect. I don't have the, the, the, the throbbing in my head that I can get regularly. And when you look at that research, it comes back down to the helping the actually the blood flow and the cardiovascular inflammation health. So that's just from a personal standpoint. Now when you're taking these compounds, how do we take them? Are we wearing them on our skin or are we taken by mouth. But the so what we create is a sublingual. So it is dropped under the tongue with the basis of the research that shows some of the flavanols, when they're absorbed in the tongue, are able to cross the broad blood brain barrier, whereas hamper fill is known more to be digested in the stomach.

So you swallow the remaining amount and it goes down into your stomach and your digestive track. And that's how it's absorbed with like, as you've already mentioned, the bacteria interaction. And in the body, illnesses, just a couple drops. I'm taking a,

How Flavonoids Are Taken and Dosed 5:48

how do we measure how much to take? So it's a it's a droplet, so it's a 30 ML bottle. It's a one ML dropper. And basically people have their own protocol. It's it's a supplement for. So it's supposed to help what your nutritional balance is. So with it when you look at your suggested diet and the, the protocol, you're looking at the three, three, three. And maybe somebody can get the full three cups of the leafy greens or the sulfur based grains or the fruits. If you are able not able to do that, you can take one meal and you're going to get basically one milligram of those flavonoids.

Mix the quercetin, the easy GC, the reserve or tall. And it's in a manner that your body's going to be able to absorb it. And the bioavailability okay. And so these are liquids. They're not capsules. And we take one mil five mils. So it's up to with what you're using in your diet. So if someone's eating a lot of greens doc and they don't think they need it one ML is a great daily. If for me, I would just personally say I take five miles of the brain health every morning and I take five meals at night, and that's just because I know from my body and me having the CTE that that is what my body needs based upon my diet.

We should remind people, what is CTE? That is what I can say is cause from is from college football and the trauma to my brain from the multiple concussions that I had. And it's basically what's been discovered over the last ten, 15 years as to what a lot of college football players also soccer suffer from. As far as the swelling in your brain from past wounds, past trauma. Yeah. So it's a chronic traumatic encephalopathy in people I have to meet. I have to sort of worry about that myself. Being a rough and tumble farm kid, I had the concussions as a kid, and then I competed nationally in full contact free sparring and taekwondo.

We got two points for kicking people in the head, so I've had quite a few cushions by concussions myself, which, by the way, does increase the risk for multiple sclerosis, ALS, Parkinson's. And so for the listeners, I invite you to go back and tally up. How many times have you seen stars in your life, and every time you saw stars, that was a little concussion in those. Concussions do increase the vulnerability for brain trouble. And it's so that is part of perhaps why you developed multiple sclerosis, why you developed an autoimmune problem that has neurologic or psychiatric symptoms.

And so go ahead, as we talked before, that was you. You've you've received concussions, but you also were talking about the concussions that you have given through your taekwondo and judo years as well. Yes, yes, that is true. You know, and when I entered medical schools, like, yeah, I quit competing nationally, I still did. I still taught, and I still was doing my forms, but I stopped giving concussions, and I hopefully did not have any more concussions after that. Well, as you said, like the stars, what was scary is when you go back playing football in the 80s and 90s, early 90s, so you saw stars all the time.

And that was kind of like a badge of honor. You a good hit and oh, you saw stars and or if you saw green because that's what what happened to you hit so hard that you get up and everything is just green. And it was a badge of honor almost, that it was a hard hit. Great play. And now we go back and learn that those were concussions,

CTE, Concussions, and Brain Health Benefits 9:42

so let alone the concussions that knocked us out of the games. We were getting those concussions every day in practice. Yeah. And again, for the listener, I invite you to go back in and think through. Did you how did you see stars as a kid? Did you see stars as an adult? And that is part of your burden, part of your risk that Brian's telling us that, his product has been very helpful for him. And I'll say that after meeting Brian, I've added that to my regimen as well, because I don't want to have the concussive history add to my risk for cognitive decline.

So how long would it take? So if someone begins using the flavin flavonoids, what kind of symptoms? What what would they notice? And how long would it take to begin noticing these changes? You notice, I would say, a relief in the pressure within the day. And I can tell you from suffering from migraines and having friends that take the product because of their migraines and people that played football with me and ranchers, like you're saying, doc, on a farm and ranch, you get all kinds of injuries.

We see the relief of a migraine. And when I'm talking about the migraine is the pain, the pressure, the peripheral stars. You started receiving that relief within 15 to 20 minutes. And that is a tremendous benefit when you're used to having a migraine and sometimes having to stay in a dark room for the entire day. So that's a reactive measure. If you start using the flavin brain, you start not seeing the or feeling the pressure, not feeling the throbbing within the first few days. And if you keep taking it, you really don't feel it.

And I can tell you in the last three years, prior to having the flavin brain, I would have 1 to 2 migraines a week. I now today I had three migraines last year and I've had one this year. That's it. And in the listeners, migraine and chronic headache is a very common part of multiple sclerosis. It is also a very common part of the prodrome that we have before the onset, multiple sclerosis or a autoimmune disease with systemic, you know, an autoimmune disease that is neurologic and psychiatric symptoms, migraine and chronic headache is a very common part of this.

And so the protocol that Brian just outlined, I want to be sure that I am describing the correct product. We're talking about the brain. What is the name of the product? It's really helpful for my brain health problem, not brain health. Brain health. So again, if you have headaches or migraines as part of your symptom complex, I think this would be useful. But in if for that circumstance you'd start with one meal, be sure you tolerate and you work up to five meals. That would be the suggestion. Yeah, yeah.

And then would they do five meals twice a day or maybe five once a day? I would think five mill once a day would be very supportive of what their nutritional needs are. I do it twice a day just because I know that works for me. So that's what I keep with I it may be the frequency and severity of your migraine, but would probably tell you we would five once a day be the right dose. If you have a more severe migraine problem, perhaps five twice a day may be more useful. No. Yeah. It's it it's going to be up to the doctors like you that can make that suggestion, but I, I, I use it twice a day just because of my history.

Sure, sure. So, all people talk about the blue zones, you know, the areas where you live to 100 plus. How do these zones use flavonoids? Well, when you look at the blue zone diet stock, you're looking at the the leafy greens you talk about. And you could literally take the blue zone gardens and what they eat. And in our facility in Florida, we grow those same plants indoors to to extract the flavonoids. So when you look at dill, for an example, everybody may look at dill as just being this seasoning.

This herb dill has phenomenal amounts of flavonoids, not only a broad spectrum

Blue Zone Foods and Plant Sources of Flavonoids 14:36

of flavonoids, but the the depth and content of the flavonoids, parsley. Everybody looks at parsley and celery as garnishment. But when you look at the blue zones, when you look at a mediterranean area, parsley, from giant Italian parsley to curl parsley, they have high levels of camp or high levels of quercetin. And that's part of like the leafy greens, suggesting that you have celery. Just don't eat the actual stalk. The celery leaves are high in camp or filled root in Napa, Jenin. And we we do the same thing with all these plants.

We get the most organic heirloom seed that we can from those countries. So from Japan, from Italy, from Greece. And those plants end up being the plants we plant and grow in our cultivation facility in Florida. And then that's where we extract the flavonoids. And we're getting these flavonoids. These flavonoids are fresh from the plant, fresh from those blue zone areas where you get me curious, where are the seeds you're getting from Japan? Well, we get two different types of parsley mitsu two parsley and then Japanese red parsley.

And then we also have Japanese buckwheat. And then we also have an isoflavones an extract that we get from a soy. But the soy is not like the soy that you have here in the United States. It's just pure healthy soy. And the flavonoids actually occur prior to wear off before any proteins are developed in. You have any of their purple sweet potatoes? We have the purple sweet potatoes all the time. Yeah. So yes, not only the purple sweet potatoes beneficial, the Okinawa potato, but also the, the greens, which are actually when you flip them over, they're purple.

But the tops that dark green, the purple on the bottom side, those leaves are full of flavonoids. Wow. Very cool, very cool. And so how does flavor not provide the flavonoids that are really part of the optimal wellness program? So when we look at what was going to be the best mechanism to keep the flavonoids stable, the research on that basically showed MCT oil. And then using either an olive oil we mixed and together we used and back and forth. But what ended up being the best for the bioavailability to the feeling the results was using the MCT oil.

And the MCT oil is now from a coconut. A lot of people think it's from coconuts, from a coconut palm, but is the heart of the palm where we get the oil. And that oil then keeps the flavonoids thriving. And the one negative about the flavonoids is they they are very negatively reactive to light and to heat, because that's what they actually do in the body and do in the plant. So if a plant gets overexposed to light, too much sunlight, too much heat, the flavonoids are what protects the plant. And then that fraction needs the flavonoids and the flavonoids when life gets burned out.

So for our part, we had to make sure that we protect the flavonoids, the MCT oils one protectant, the other is like all of our bottles are a matte colored white so the sun can't go through them. And then secondarily, we don't want them in heat. It's better to be put in a refrigerator or room temperature. But that keeps the flavonoids life longevity and the strength of them. And then that MCT oil, when you put it under your tongue, is going to get absorbed quickly there as well as since it's got a fatty chain acid, when it gets into your stomach with the bacteria, it's broken down and that's how your body absorbs it.

And your gas ethanol system doesn't need to shake the bottle than before. If you shake it, yeah, if you shake it, it makes it more active. So definitely shake it beforehand.

Product Formulation, Stability, and Delivery 18:30

And that's going to give it a more active state. Okay. And so we've talked about the brain health. Is that the only wine that you have water a number of different lines. There's other lines. We have the immunity which is very relevant also to your patient mix. The immunity has the higher reserve at all. It's got the app engine and route. And it also has SGC and that those flavonoids are just the flavonoids that the studies have shown help boost the immune system, where the flavonoids that we use and the concentration in the brain is specifically from the study showing which flavonoids help brain health.

We also have the extra strength, which is just going to be designed more for create an inflammatory, healthy balance. And the flavonoids you've got the can, flavonoids and the can of flavonoids have been shown in studies to be very beneficial in creating that inflammatory balance. A healthy balance. And then we have the sprays and stuff like that, the topicals for people to use, if they have areas of the body, their elbows, the wrists and the creams, the same thing where we put the flavonoids in those products to help you like an icy hot type application.

But the flavonoids are what's delivering the relief. So that might be a sort of acute pain relief or a muscle joint problem. Correct. Now, I know we have a lot of people who have difficulty with restless legs or practically movement disorder. Does this have any role for either of those? Well, we have one of our tinctures is a neuropathy tincture. And that neuropathy tincture is the one that we have found from people. Adding it as a supplement helps them with the restless leg syndrome, and to the point where we've had various clinicians and physicians get back to us with patients who, let's say, cannot feel their lower extremities and they start using the neuropathy, those flavonoids are helping that oxidative stress.

And what ends up happening is the physician receives a complaint from their patient that they're receiving sharp pain. And the reason they're receiving sharp pain is it's their oxidase stress is being relieved and the nerves are feeling for the first time. And so if you take the neuropathy and you have issues with your lower extremities as far as not feeling toes, not feeling feet, the one negative is within the first 7 to 10 days, there's going to be some sharp tingling pain from the flavonoids.

Given that extra support to your health and your. What I can say is the support of your body, the what's needed. And is that quiet down, then yes, it quiets down by day 12 to 15, then it quiets down and it doesn't exist. And you have people that are actually able to have the blood flow and nerve feelings, and it's quite a benefit. So probably particularly useful for diabetic retinopathy, particularly useful for nutritional neuropathies as well. But I want to get back to the restless legs in the periodic limb movement disorder, because that is very, very common in the setting of multiple sclerosis.

And or immunity with neurologic symptoms. What are the products that you recommended for that? It's a I would be using the brain health

Brain Health, Immunity, and Neuropathy Products 22:06

with the neuropathy with an amputee. Yeah. And it's it's specifically in neuropathy health to help with and but help in the body in the is the neuropathy health taken orally or is that. Yep. Same thing as well okay. Yep there is. We do have the relief spray that people can use on their legs and their ankles for the external comfort. But if you're actually looking at supporting that nutritional support, it's the neuropathy tincture. Neuropathy tincture. Yeah. And is is that also in the MCT oil as well.

Yeah. Correct. Yep. Okay. All right. So we have the brain health immunity support neuropathy. Those are probably the three that are most relevant for people with multiple sclerosis. Am I correct on that. You're correct doctor. Yeah okay. And is this something that you take typically with food? Without food, you can take it with food or without food if you're taking it with food, preferably fatties. So when you're talking about an olive oil, you're talking about avocados. It's phenomenal. Take with that.

And I know the people following, you know, the dangers of sugar. But if you take it with sugar, the flavonoids are going to work on fighting the sugar. And so it's going to negate you taking it. If you're if you have any sugar before or after with the flavonoids, because the flavonoids are going to work on eating up the sugars. Basically what you find in in vitro studies. So yeah, stay away from sugar. Yeah. Let me reinforce that. Added sugar and add it. Also add in the white flour based. Yes breads pastas, cereals most of which particularly our breakfast cereals have a lot of added sugar added to them.

Those are the foods that are really destroying our health and destroying the health of our children. And so feed your kids fruit, nuts, seeds. Give them vegetables, don't give them sugar and don't give them these cereals. Those are so harmful for them. So I could take these flavored flavonoids. I could take them without a meal, or I could take them before the meal and then eat a meal, preferably one that has a bunch of fat with it, olive oil. And I actually, I'm very, very fond of olive oil. If you follow me on Instagram, you see that I mix olive oil with my herbs, and right now I have lots of oregano coming up and a lot of chives.

So I make oregano chive pesto, which I had last night with my fish, which was super delicious. And then in a few weeks, we'll start having the basil come in now, Bill, to make some basil pesto as well. And so what? I think I'm here. You tell me, is taking my flavonoid before the meal heavy? My meal, in which I will have easily 2 to 3 tablespoons of my pesto, very rich in olive oil, would be a great way to pair with that. The flavor would be a great way, doctor. Yes. Yep. Okay. And when I, when I take my brain health at night, I take a little shot of olive oil with it.

Okay. Is there anything else that we have not yet covered, Brian, that you'd like to highlight? No, I think those are some great points to highlight, doctor.

How to Use the Products and Where to Buy 25:36

Okay, so if people are at a known spread like, okay, I want to check this out, how how would they, get some flavor? I they can go to flab relief.com. That's the website. And on the website we have all the products and go specifically see it do a search for brain health neuropathy our immunity. All those bottles are right there on the the first product page. And they can order from there. And then we're also offering doc is because of your tremendous effort the The Wall diet and educating everybody on how great a healthy diet is.

And polyphenols are anybody that orders, we'll have a code available for them and they'll receive 25% off. And then we're also donating 10% to your charity of choice based upon your enlightenment of how great a healthy diet is. And I think when I've been since we met, I've been in various conferences. And your name has come up multiple times when people come and talk to me about the event. And we mentioned polyphenols and you're one of the top three people I always get mentioned as far as have I ever talked to Doctor Terry Wall on her diet?

And I'm like, yeah, I talked to Terry Wall, doctor. Why? I know about her. And I said, it's it's a great thing that she's done for us as far as letting everybody know about the benefits of a true healthy diet. Okay. So filament relief.com. And what's the code for that 25% off. So hey so we wall 2525 okay I'm going to tell you to change that to walls within us. Oh. Oh that's our able to do that. It does. It's got an S. Oh bad I didn't know that C but it's got the S. It's got this okay. So walls 25 gets you 25% off.

And Brian and I are in complete agreement. These flavonoids rock. They are a cornerstone of getting your health back. Brian, thank you so much. This has been a wonderful interview. Thank you so much for having me, doc.