Full Transcript Introduction to Neurofeedback and Brain Rewiring 0:07 Well, welcome back to the Heal Your Brain Masterclass. 0:10 I'm your host, Doctor David Jockers, and today 0:12 I've got the honor of interviewing Michael Cohen from center for brain.com. 0:16 We're talking about Beyond Nutrition rewiring the brain's 0:19 electrical software for optimal healing. 0:22 And Michael is the author of neurofeedback 101 and his new book, The Mind Rewired 0:28 25 Stories of Healing, Trauma, Anxiety and Beyond with neurofeedback. 0:33 And he is an expert when it comes to the brain. 0:35 You guys are in for a treat. 0:36 We're going to talk all about trauma and balancing the sympathetic 0:41 and parasympathetic nervous system so you can really sleep well, 0:44 reduce anxiety, reduce depression, and really thrive in life. 0:49 Be able to focus and be productive, by quieting your mind, balancing your brain. 0:53 And so you guys are in for a treat here. 0:55 So without further ado, let's go to the interview here with Michael Cohen. 1:00 All right. 1:01 Well, here I am with Michael Cohen. 1:03 He is the founder of centerforbrain.com, 1:07 and he is the author of neurofeedback 101 1:10 on Amazon's best selling book on Amazon. 1:14 And his new book, The Mind Rewired 25 Stories of Healing Trauma, 1:18 anxiety and Beyond with Neuro Feedback. 1:22 And he's an expert when it comes to neurofeedback 1:25 and really understanding the brain and how it works and how it drives 1:28 behavior and the stress response in our body. 1:31 So really great topic. 1:33 And today our title is Beyond Nutrition Rewiring 1:37 the Brain's Electrical Software for Optimal Healing. 1:40 You guys are in for a treat here. 1:41 And so Michael, great to be with you. 1:44 And let's start with nice to meet you. 1:47 After hearing you so many times. 1:50 Yeah. 1:50 And you're a fan of the show, which is, which is a big fan of your show. 1:53 Oh, great. 1:54 And so let's let's start with your new book, In the Mind Rewired. 1:58 You talk about the brain software and why is optimizing biochemistry often 2:02 not enough to stop symptoms like anxiety and brain fog? 2:06 Well, you always have to be dealing with inflammation, 2:10 with gut microbiome type of issues with nutrition. 2:15 I mean, that is foundational. 2:17 That's but can you take 2:20 can you do all those things and still have anxiety? 2:24 Can you do all those things and still have a sleep problem? 2:26 Can you do all those things and still have A.D.D.? 2:29 I mean, yes, we know that. 2:31 And we see lots of clients actually, who have done 2:36 a tremendous amount of nutritional work 2:39 with often very good functional medicine docs or functional medicine. 2:44 Do nutritionists, and yet they're still struggling. 2:47 So yes, you can improve the hardware and you need that to be good.
Why Nutrition Alone May Not Resolve Symptoms 2:53 But it's kind of like I want to learn how to do a certain dance 2:58 so I can be in the best physical shape I can have. 3:01 Wonderful. 3:02 You know, you see these people who are really great in sports, 3:05 but they can't dance very well because the timing isn't perfect. 3:10 There are many, many things that disrupt timing in our brain, 3:14 how our brain, different parts of our brain pay attention, 3:18 how they help us be more calm, how they help us go to sleep, 3:22 how we quiet our minds. 3:24 These are different systems in the brain, and they have to run in a 3:28 pretty functional, well timed way. 3:31 And when that timing gets off, 3:33 the electrical signaling, the, which is kind of the software, 3:37 when that timing gets off, it can just get off. 3:40 And how do you get it back even when you do all the nutrition. 3:45 So doing being able to do neurofeedback, which really means 3:50 I'm going to retrain the electrical signaling in my brain. 3:53 I'm going to retrain the timing in my brain by using some special sensors 3:58 on my head that help tell my brain when it's getting the right beat, 4:02 when it's getting the right timing, when it's getting the right signal. 4:06 And how does it do that? You're watching a video game. 4:08 You're watching a movie, you're seeing that movie. 4:11 As long as your brain is doing the right thing, 4:13 and as soon as your brain starts missing timing, 4:16 it kind of fades away or it gets smaller. 4:19 So it's a real time feedback system. 4:22 But basically, in simple terms, the answer is 4:26 how do we get our brain to get on the right beat, 4:29 get the right timing, and do certain kinds of things? 4:33 You need 4:34 something else beyond often nutrition. 4:37 That being said, 4:40 if you eat crappy, if your nutrition is bad, if your microbiome is off, 4:43 if you have a lot of information, it's going to be harder to train. 4:47 So it's really very important 4:50 that you get both working together. 4:54 Yeah. No doubt. 4:55 And we have this 4:56 the part of our nervous system called the autonomic nervous system, 4:59 which the best way for listeners to understand 5:01 that is it's automatic controls our heart rate, controls our digestive system. 5:05 We have to think about it. 5:06 It's constantly running and there's two main branches to it 5:09 the sympathetic or fight or flight branch and the parasympathetic 5:13 or rest and digest branch. 5:17 And we need both of those. 5:18 We need good sympathetic and parasympathetic tone. 5:20 They're both vital to life and survival. 5:24 But most people in our society are wired into more of a fight or flight, 5:28 or simply a higher sympathetic tone, lower parasympathetic tone. 5:32 And, you know, they're in this constant state of fight or flight. 5:37 And how does that impact, you know, our ability to even if we're 5:40 trying to make good, healthy choices and live a healthy lifestyle, 5:44 how does that impact our ability to live and thrive? 5:48 Well, when your brain is over ramped. 5:50 So we're just going to call back about sympathetic as being overwhelmed. 5:54 I mean, we live in an incredibly overstimulating world. 5:58 It's just the way it is. 5:59 And that happens both from 6:03 everything from electronics to sound to light to 6:08 maybe eating too much. 6:09 I can't even I don't know how food and nutrition directly 6:13 impact sympathetic, but I think it must at some level. 6:16 Well, well, no doubt, because we're releasing a lot of stress hormones. 6:19 So stress hormones are glucocorticoids, meaning that they're going to elevate 6:23 blood glucose because they're trying to get us ready to run real fast, right. 6:28 Or fight. 6:28 So fight or flight, we need elevated glucose 6:31 because we need to produce energy quickly, you know, without oxygen. 6:35 Right. 6:35 So and so that's what we can use anaerobic fuel with glucose. 6:39 And then what's going to follow if we don't burn that glucose up 6:42 through exercise for example, fighting or are fighting running. 6:47 Then insulin is going to come out right, and insulin is going 6:50 to bring that glucose down by putting it into cells. 6:53 But the issue is that when insulin is elevated, it stops fat burning. 6:57 And it also makes us more hungry in general. 7:00 And so we're going to end up 7:01 with more cravings, more hunger and an inability to burn fat for fuel. 7:05 So yeah, when we have high 7:07 sympathetic tone, it's definitely going to impact our nutritional habits.
Sympathetic Overdrive and Nervous System Balance 7:11 We're going to tend to want more comfort foods, things 7:13 that are going to give us kind of a quick burst of, glucose. 7:17 Right. And a lot of dopamine. 7:19 And, at the same time, it's going to block fat burning 7:22 and that 7:22 and the, the issue for a lot of the clients and people 7:26 we all see is they may be doing exercise like crazy to calm that down. 7:32 You know, I've got to do a lot of exercises to calm. 7:35 I need to do yoga. I need to do meditation. 7:37 I need to, take supplements that help calm this down. 7:41 But they're working. 7:43 If their brain tends to be in that sympathetic mode, 7:46 and that could be from anxiety, that could be from previous trauma 7:50 in their life, that could be from really stressful work. 7:55 But then when they can't let that down, 7:57 they're working really, really hard to be calm. 8:01 They're working really, really hard to get that sympathetic down, 8:03 to be able to go to sleep better, to be able to reduce the stress level. 8:06 Neurofeedback has an incredible is an incredible tool 8:12 that helps people reset some of those circuits 8:15 so that you can get your brain to go there without working so darn hard. 8:19 When, you know, I tell people all the time, you work way too hard to be calm. 8:24 I mean, it's kind of crazy and, why should people have to be doing that? 8:29 There needs to be other tools. 8:31 And there's tools 8:31 like the vagus nerve stimulator, which maybe you have discussed in 8:35 some of your talks. 8:36 It's a device using either electrical stem or light stem or magnetic stem 8:41 that helps target the vagus nerve that helps 8:45 with increase parasympathetic and reduce sympathetic neurofeedback is arguably 8:50 the most powerful and fastest way to reset some of those circuits. 8:55 I mean, I I've had people who came in just wired. 9:00 I mean, they are just extremely anxious, extremely stressed. 9:03 I can't stand it anymore. 9:05 It's ruining my life. 9:07 And in 2 or 3 sessions they're like, oh my gosh, I'm doing a lot better. 9:12 Not because we did something to them, but they literally with neurofeedback, 9:17 you're training your own brain signals to shift. 9:22 You know, you're kind of learning a new dance. 9:24 Your brain is really good at being anxious. 9:27 Let's teach your brain a pattern of how not to be anxious. 9:31 So. So how does neurofeedback work? 9:33 Can you explain more about, you know, that process and how that works? 9:38 I will not be able to explain it well enough. 9:40 I'll tell you right up front, 9:41 because really, we're talking about, well, how does the brain change itself? 9:46 So fundamentally? 9:48 Neurofeedback is how I'm going to use I'm 9:51 going to put my fingers over my left and right temporal lobes. 9:55 Okay. 9:55 Your left and right temporal lobes play a role in emotional regulation. 10:00 Emotional balance, getting triggered, getting stressed, getting angered. 10:05 You probably don't have any, people who listen to this 10:07 who have those problems, but there are a lot of people who do. 10:09 And so if you want to improve that, 10:13 how do I exercise that limbic system, the temporal lobes, 10:18 in order to say, I'm going to practice helping your brain learn to be calm, 10:23 learn to not get triggered, learn to not get angry or as irritable. 10:27 So we put sensors on the head. 10:30 I mean, this is how neurofeedback 10:32 actually is done, not necessarily how it all completely works. 10:35 You put sensors on the head, it measures your brain activity. 10:39 And basically, you know how when you're playing a video game 10:42 and you don't know how to play it 10:43 and you're learning how to play it and you're having to figure it out, 10:46 how does your brain actually figure out the right thing to do? 10:49 You have no idea how to play it, but you keep working 10:52 until you find the right patterns that help you get better. 10:56 The same happens. 10:57 We're using basically a video game for your brain. 10:59 We're measuring your brain pattern, and you're getting better 11:03 at improving the brain pattern. 11:04 And it's when you do the Pacman goes or you see a rocket ship going, 11:10 or you see the movie very clearly, but as soon as your brain 11:14 starts doing less good at that pattern, 11:17 the Pacman stops or the spaceship slows down and the movie fades out. 11:21 So it's everybody knows that any kid can learn a video game. 11:27 They don't like asking for instructions, right? 11:29 You ever seen a kid ask their parents, how do I play this video game? 11:32 I don't know, I haven't seen that. Yeah. 11:34 I've got I've got kids that play video games. 11:36 Yeah, they just figure it out. 11:38 So how does their brain do that? 11:41 It is identifying patterns and getting better at patterns. 11:45 We're using the brain's pattern and helping you learn to make 11:50 a better, more functional brain pattern by rewarding you when you do that. 11:54 Just like a video game rewards you when you do better. 11:58 Interesting. 11:59 And how does it work? Like, do you get that? 12:01 Do you get people to start by thinking, by trying to be aware 12:05 of certain certain patterns or. 12:08 Okay, so we're measuring the neurons. 12:10 This is okay. 12:12 So right now for you to be listening to me and paying attention to me, 12:16 you are fine. 12:16 Neurons in your prefrontal lobe and your auditory cortex 12:20 so that you can engage in this. 12:21 Can you feel them firing right now? Probably not. 12:24 Yeah I hope yeah. No. Yeah. 12:26 So we don't feel our neurons. 12:28 Nobody does. You know. 12:30 How do I learn how to you know, I'm going to learn to be on a balance board. 12:36 Can you explain to me how I learn to balance? 12:38 You probably can't, because your brain really just figures it out, right?
How Neurofeedback Trains Brain Timing 12:42 Just like the video game. 12:43 I can't tell you how I got better at it. 12:45 I just practiced and did it. 12:47 So really, fundamentally, we're just using technology 12:52 to tell the brain when it's doing a better job of making a certain pattern. 12:55 Now, which patterns that you measure and give feedback on. 13:00 There is a lot of different ways to train the brain. 13:02 So if I train you over your temporal lobes, 13:05 I'm targeting a system for emotional regulation. 13:08 But if I train you over what is called your there's 13:11 an area of your brain called your premotor cortex. 13:14 That's on the top of your head towards the front part. 13:17 That plays a role in kind of I hope I can say this, 13:21 getting off your butt and getting things done. 13:23 You know, this is the how do I engage in activity? 13:27 How do I get things done? 13:28 How do I be more, you know? 13:30 Yeah. 13:30 How do I really start a whole task? 13:33 If that part of your brain you train that it's going to have 13:36 a completely different effect than if you train your temporal lobes? 13:39 Or if I am anxious or I get overwhelmed in situations 13:44 that is in an area of your brain called the parietal lobe, 13:47 which plays a role in proprioception. 13:49 So I can easily get overwhelmed. 13:51 And how do I calm that down? 13:53 So you go to a gym, there's a lot of different exercises. 13:58 You go. 13:59 Neurofeedback is fundamentally a gym for the brain. 14:02 It's different. 14:03 You have to have somebody who knows what they're doing to help you identify 14:07 which part of the brain can I exercise to help me achieve 14:12 less anxiety, better attention, improve my memory? 14:17 Quit having my mind race and race and race 14:20 be a better sleeper, be more emotionally balanced. 14:24 All of those things, 14:27 are really just exercises. 14:29 It's just that rather than exercising, like in the gym, it's 14:33 more like learning a new pattern I am right now. 14:37 I mean, I see people all the time who I say, I interview them and I go, 14:42 so it sounds like you are excellent at worrying. 14:45 They go, oh yes, I am an excellent worker. 14:48 So can we simply train? 14:50 So you you're excellent at that pattern. 14:52 Can we teach you to be excellent and not worrying 14:56 and that's just identifying a pattern 14:59 in the brain, which tends to be in an area called the anterior cingulate. 15:03 That plays a role in. 15:05 Okay, I need to quiet my mind and focus on something else, 15:08 not have that thing loop in my head. 15:10 Now, how do you target 15:11 these different areas of the brain are using like, electrodes? 15:14 What exactly are you doing? 15:16 In general, most neurofeedback 15:18 is using some kind of electrodes, although there are other types of neurofeedback 15:24 that measure, infrared, type energy and things, and even oxygen in the brain. 15:30 But the most common is measuring electrical. 15:33 So you're measuring using electrodes. 15:35 But what does that mean? 15:36 And measure we all make electricity with our brain. 15:39 If I put a sensor on the head it's going to measure your electrical pattern. 15:43 So we put these sensors on your head. 15:46 It measures it. 15:47 What do you do when you're sitting there? 15:49 Watch a movie, play a Pac-Man game, watch a space game. 15:53 How in the world can that make me more calm? 15:56 How in the world can that make me be more focused? 15:59 How can that help me sleep? 16:01 Because I'm getting feedback instantly. 16:04 That's helping my brain learn to create more functional patterns 16:09 for those targets. 16:10 But how do we figure out where to do it? 16:13 Which is a question you asked. 16:15 Some people use brain mapping, 16:17 meaning we do put a cap on your head and measure all the electrical activity 16:22 and go, where are things different than what you know? 16:25 Here's what's typical for other people your age range. 16:28 Gee, you're making way too much activity in the center or cingulate, 16:32 so I'll bet you can't quiet your mind and they go, oh yeah, I can't at all. 16:37 But we also know, I mean, neuropsychology, 16:40 neuroscience knows what do these different areas of the brain do? 16:44 So if you came in to me and say, 16:47 every time I go home and I get tired, I get really too angry and I yell 16:51 at my kids. 16:51 My sister, by the way, once came back and said that, so 16:56 is that okay? 16:58 So there could be a nutritional problem and we really need to rule that out first. 17:01 So is that a blood sugar problem? 17:04 Is, is that, you know, low energy? 17:07 That is because I have not having enough energy. 17:10 So I do try to make sure we're not training 17:13 something that really is more of a nutritional problem, but let's assume 17:18 they've already been through some of that and haven't achieved a solution yet. 17:23 Rather rapidly, you can train 17:25 in a few sessions over the temporal lobes, 17:29 and all of a sudden people will say, I'm less angry, I'm less emotional. 17:33 I'm, you know, kids are not having tantrums. 17:35 I don't want to make it sound like it's always that quick. 17:37 It's not always that quick. 17:38 I mean, every, 17:39 you know, when you go to the gym, how long does it take to get in shape? 17:42 It's different for everybody a little bit. But, 17:45 but you have the ability because we know what different areas of the brain do. 17:49 You don't always have to have a brain map. 17:52 And some, some clinicians, there's 17:55 clinicians all over the country that do this. 17:57 And I wish there were more. 17:58 And we hope there will be more, because it's every therapist 18:03 who gets this and really starts to learn. 18:05 It goes, how come I didn't do this before? 18:07 I'm making I'm helping clients 18:10 with their anxiety, with their mood, with their attention. 18:13 So much faster than I did before. 18:17 Because you're giving people a gym, you're helping them learn to improve it. 18:22 Yeah. 18:23 So basically what you're trying to do is you're you're mapping the brain 18:26 to kind of see what areas are firing to high, 18:29 what areas are not firing in the appropriate amount, 18:33 and then correlating that, 18:34 of course, with their health history, maybe 18:35 their symptoms, things that they're having and then providing the proper 18:40 I guess you can say, stimulation into those, into the areas of the brain 18:44 that are, that are low, that are weak, 18:47 and kind of in a sense, trying to put the brakes on areas 18:51 that are hyperactive in order to create more balance. 18:56 You said that better than I did. 18:57 That's very good. 18:59 That was a very good explanation. 19:00 And that's it. 19:01 And that's a very good way, a simple way to think about it. 19:04 Exactly that. And you know, 19:08 you don't. 19:08 It's not the brain is incredibly complex. 19:10 So yeah, you know, I had someone who came in 19:13 who said he's a lawyer, you know, he has a new job. 19:18 He has a tendency towards anxiety. 19:20 He got incredibly overwhelmed by his new job. 19:23 Great pressure. 19:25 And he kept saying to me, I need to be more focused. 19:28 I'm having a hard time getting things done. 19:30 You need to help me improve my motivation. 19:33 So even though I had a brain map, I actually targeted 19:36 those specific areas of the brain that do that. 19:38 And after 2 or 3 sessions,
Brain Mapping, Targeted Training, and Real-World Cases 19:40 I didn't think we were making, he wasn't reporting any progress. 19:44 And so I'm like, is it possible that maybe 19:47 this is just overwhelm rather than lack of focus? 19:50 And so we trained an area of his brain 19:53 that plays a critical role in being overwhelmed and being anxious. 19:57 After one session, he comes back, oh, I got a whole lot done, 20:01 you know, right after that for the next two days. So, 20:05 you know, when you go to a doctor, do they always know exactly, 20:08 even if they've done lots of tests, 20:10 exactly what the problem is and what to do about it? 20:12 I don't want to suggest it's just, gee, we always know the right answer. 20:17 Sometimes you have to work with people to figure it out. 20:20 Just no different than clinical news. 20:23 You know, functional nutrition. 20:24 Sure, you are constantly adapting to how that person responds. 20:28 So part of neurofeedback is having someone there 20:32 who can say, well, how did your brain respond to that? 20:35 And and what can we do? 20:38 And I often see people 20:41 who say they eat well, they have no nutritional problems. 20:44 They've done all this other stuff. 20:46 And then after a while you're like, let's review that again, 20:50 because something's really standing in the way 20:53 of your brain exercising and making progress. 20:56 Just like if you went to the gym 20:57 and you were not eating as well, or didn't have good nutrition, 21:00 you're just not going to get is in good shape. 21:02 So we really refer out a lot, for nutritional issues. 21:08 And also, quite frankly, we live in Florida. 21:11 Mold is an issue. 21:12 And so people are being affected by that. 21:15 I don't know what your view on, EMF, which is both phones and, Wi-Fi. 21:21 But yeah, I tell people now, and this is based on the last 4 21:25 or 5 years of experience, they come in, I have a hard time falling asleep. 21:30 My brain is racing. 21:30 I wake up at 3:00 in the morning, I can't get back to sleep. 21:33 I'm like, where's your router? 21:35 How far is it if it's not at least 30ft, 21:39 30ft away and you don't have a booster in your area? 21:43 I'm like, well, you need to do that first. 21:45 And I've had enough 21:46 people come back to me after to go, oh, I'm already sleeping better. 21:50 We didn't do anything other than your brain is somehow 21:54 getting overstimulated by some of this stuff. 21:57 Yeah, I always recommend people put their Wi-Fi 21:59 on kind of a schedule system. 22:03 You could turn it off like you can schedule it to go off like in our house. 22:06 It's off by 11:00 at night and it doesn't come back until 6 a.m.. 22:11 So like, we know we're going to be sleeping during those hours, like there. 22:14 We should have no need for Wi-Fi. 22:16 So it's just an automatic program, that goes off and on. 22:20 And so I think that's really wise for most people to do 22:23 $8 Christmas tree timer at Home Depot. 22:25 That's all they need. Yeah. There you go. Exactly. 22:28 Now, your book, you actually feature 25 stories of healing. 22:32 Is there a specific one? 22:34 Like an NFL player or a student with ADHD that illustrates 22:37 how quickly the brain can pivot once it gets the right feedback? 22:42 Yeah, lots of stories, but I do want to mention that, 22:46 I've been in the field for almost 30, well, actually for 30 years, 22:50 and there are clinicians all over the world that I meet, 22:54 and they tell me these incredible stories. 22:56 So it's not just my story. 22:58 So I decided I'm going to invite some clinician. 23:01 So I have 12 different clinicians who have some who have linked 23:04 us up to clients for the clients to tell their story. 23:08 So we actually interviewed those clients. 23:10 This particular, client came from, George Roselle in Sarasota. 23:15 He's a psychologist. 23:16 He was doing a small study with NFL football players. 23:19 So, the guy actually allowed us the player actually allowed us to use his real name 23:24 because he's out there trying to get other, NFL players to do it. 23:28 His name was Pat Carter. He played for the Lions. 23:30 He played for the Cardinals. 23:31 He played for the Oilers. 23:33 And, you know, what does every I think he was a, and you know, 23:37 what is everybody, you know, getting hit over and over and over. 23:41 And he described, you know, from the time he was young, you know, your job was get 23:45 up, get whacked and get back in there. 23:49 And so and later, you know, they said, you know, 23:52 the NFL knew about it, but they just didn't say anything. 23:56 So they knew that he was going to have his body beat up. 23:58 But he said, wow, I didn't expect, you know, in my 30s 24:02 and 40s, I was going to have to deal with my brain issue. 24:05 So, he started having problems with terrible problems with sleep, with mood. 24:11 He said he would have his wife, you know, and him would all they he'd get mad 24:16 and they wouldn't 24:17 even talk to each other for 2 or 3 days, and they'd go to a different part 24:20 of the house. 24:21 And she wanted him on to go see a psychiatrist, 24:25 and he heard about this study from another player and decided to enroll. 24:30 He didn't live that far from, that was, Sarasota. 24:34 And so he started doing it. 24:36 And within he said a few sessions, 24:40 his relationship with his wife was changing. 24:43 He was starting to improve his sleep. 24:45 He was starting to feel more clear. 24:48 He had a lot of impulsivity issues. 24:50 He was overspending and things like that. 24:52 Well, look, 24:53 anybody who's had concussions and and we're picking on a football player, 24:58 quite frankly, a lot of people in their lives have gotten whacked in the head. 25:02 And they were told 25:04 they went for an MRI and they were told, no, you don't have a concussion. 25:06 By the way, an MRI is not the gold standard 25:08 for identifying you have a concussion. It just means you're not bleeding. 25:11 You definitely want to rule that out, but later is 25:15 when you see the effect of what is called post-concussion syndrome. 25:18 These players all have post-concussion syndrome. 25:21 So they're emotional. 25:23 You know, they get excessively emotional. 25:26 They didn't used to be like that. 25:27 To be an NFL player, you better be steady and calm. 25:31 This is post. 25:33 You know this is post-concussion. 25:35 And so not just football players but an example for anybody you know 25:39 that's ever gotten whacked in the head. 25:41 Nobody said, gee your emotional problems, your memory problems, your attention 25:46 problems are all from that thing that you did ten years ago, 20 years ago. 25:51 We see that all the time. 25:53 And Pat, you know, had a serious issue. 25:56 And when he was able to see Doctor Roselle 25:59 and you can see in the book there's a particular type, 26:01 there's a variety of different types of neurofeedback. 26:04 So you can sometimes get confused. 26:07 Gee, there are all these different types of, neurofeedback, 26:10 but there's lots of different gym equipment. 26:12 They all do similar things, but in sometimes different ways. 26:16 So what you want is people who know what they're doing to help you, 26:20 particularly when you're dealing with the brain. 26:21 So I mean, Pat is now 26:25 I mean, within about 15 or 20 sessions, I think 26:28 just a dramatic shift in his brain in his life. 26:34 His wife became a big advocate. 26:36 He said later, after once he started doing that, 26:38 he had kind of stopped going for a little bit. 26:40 And she's like, you got to get back down there. 26:42 You're slipping. 26:43 You you need to do this again. 26:45 And, and quite frankly, I do neurofeedback on myself. 26:48 I'm 72 and I definitely was having memory issues 26:53 about 10 or 15 years ago that my wife is like, 26:57 you got to do something about your own brain. 26:59 And so my brain is better now 27:02 than it was definitely 12 years ago. 27:06 And that's great. 27:09 Now am I doing nutritional things also? 27:12 Absolutely. 100%, I figured. 27:14 So you're listening to this podcast. So. 27:17 Yeah. 27:17 So, I mean, you got to put it all together. 27:21 So there's not one thing when you got complex problems, 27:25 when you got really bad anxiety, when you've got depression, 27:28 when you're just struggling to keep up at work.
Trauma, PTSD, and Faster Healing with Neurofeedback 27:31 I have a lot of people who come in. 27:33 They are struggling to keep up at work. 27:35 They frankly, a lot of them have done a lot of research in nutrition, 27:39 but you can't fix your processing 27:42 just by taking the right supplements. 27:45 When something, whatever it is, has gotten the timing off in your brain. 27:50 There's lots of things in our world that get the timing off in your brain. 27:53 And okay, I am now in better shape. 27:56 My brain is better able to respond if I have good nutrition, 28:00 and neurofeedback actually works much quicker 28:03 when you get the right nutrition because it's training. 28:06 Yeah. 28:06 And you're working with a lot of different people, like kids 28:09 with ADHD, for example, people with depression 28:13 and you're helping them without the side 28:16 effects of pharmaceuticals. 28:19 Absolutely. 28:20 I mean, you know, I'm not I, 28:22 I'm not a fan of pharmaceuticals, but I'm not against pharmaceuticals. 28:26 I mean, there are times where you really need them there. 28:28 It's the question is, are they good long term solutions? 28:31 Yeah. And you know what? 28:34 If you can learn to get your brain better 28:38 at regulating yourself, 28:41 isn't that the better choice? 28:43 What's the downside of that? 28:46 Takes a lot more work than taking a pill. 28:48 You know, nobody goes if you're really out of shape. 28:52 How long is like I said, you go to the gym and actually get in good shape. 28:55 It's not a month. 28:57 You know, this takes time. 28:59 It takes effort. 29:00 It actually doesn't take effort to sit there and do it. 29:03 It takes effort to go, there's cost associated sometimes a lot of times 29:07 insurance might not pick it up. 29:08 Of course, insurance doesn't pick up nutritional stuff either. 29:11 But, I think that the challenge is, I mean, whether I have to tell you a quick 29:17 other story, we had an autistic boy who was 16, 15 months of 16 months. 29:23 This is in the book. But it was amazing to me. 29:25 It was a client of ours. 29:26 And we had seen the mom. 29:29 She was a equestrian. 29:31 I don't know if you know anything about equestrians, but 29:34 they've all fallen off horses multiple times and they've had some level 29:37 concussion. 29:38 So she had multiple concussions. 29:41 And when she came in, she was just not thinking, well. 29:44 And so she came in for herself. 29:46 And she was one of those miracles, like in 6 or 7 29:50 sessions, she's like, oh my God, I'm thinking clearly. 29:54 And she'd been the mayo she been, I mean, she bill, 29:57 I shouldn't say names, but she'd been to a lot of places 29:59 because they had the means and nobody had help. 30:04 So one day she calls, she wants to bring her son. 30:07 How old is he? 30:08 15 months. 30:09 We're like, okay, what are we talking about? 30:11 I think he's autistic. 30:13 So she comes in. 30:14 He's not, I think by the time she got him, it was 16 months. 30:16 He's not responding to his name, so he just wanders around. 30:20 He doesn't respond to his name. 30:22 In three sessions, he's completely responding to his name. 30:28 Now, what does that mean? 30:29 What did we do? 30:30 We actually didn't do anything to him. 30:31 We helped him train his brain pattern. 30:34 You can do that at 15 months. 30:36 You can do that at age 92. 30:39 Our brain is always learning. This is just. 30:41 Is my brain learning a pattern? 30:43 So it improved the pattern 30:45 and his brain was able to use that information effectively. 30:48 Could that have taken two years? 30:51 Maybe. 30:52 But usually kids at that age actually respond much quicker. 30:57 Yeah that's right. 30:58 That's really interesting. What a great story. 30:59 And and let's talk about like trauma a lot of people have had maybe child early 31:03 childhood trauma. 31:05 You know, 31:06 relationship issues, divorces, maybe bankruptcies, different things like that. 31:11 And typically when they go in to see a psychologist, 31:15 they're usually going through talk therapy. 31:17 Obviously there could be prescriptions that are prescribed as well. 31:20 But, you know, in the, in the mainstream model that they do a lot of talk therapy. 31:24 Right? And some people get do better with that. 31:27 But why does that often fall short for these kind of early 31:31 childhood adverse, events that people have experience? 31:34 Why do they not get lasting healing with that? 31:37 So trauma affects your brain development. 31:39 And that's true. 31:40 That's particularly true when you're young and that's called, 31:43 you know, childhood trauma and developmental trauma. 31:46 But a lot of people experience trauma, you know, later in their life also. 31:50 So that has a different kind of I mean, that still has a brain impact 31:54 is just a little bit different, that these are 31:58 lasting kind of impacts that go beyond just, okay, Kim, can I just 32:03 look at a brain map and tell you exactly where your trauma is in the brain? 32:06 We see some markers. 32:08 We see some markers of hypervigilance 32:10 when we're doing brain maps of people who have had this. 32:13 But the question is, what do you do about it? 32:16 Talk therapy is a tool for somatic therapy, which is body oriented. 32:21 Therapy actually is a very good tool. Nerve. 32:25 But these are complex things to deal with. 32:27 Just like concussion, just like depression and anxiety. 32:30 They can I mean, sometimes they're light, but sometimes they're complex. 32:33 So what neurofeedback does is to give a tool 32:36 that helps get to the deeper parts of the brain. 32:38 So you have an area called the amygdala. 32:40 You have areas that play a role in how your brain 32:44 got affected in the first place by this trauma. 32:47 And you can do talk therapy, but you're doing talk therapy to the person 32:51 to try to reorient and help them change how they respond to that. 32:55 You're not able to get right into the brain and say, let's help 32:59 you change the timing and the wiring in that area that is most affected 33:04 to help you be more calm and to help, not just be more calm. 33:10 But, you know, people have nightmares. 33:11 People have, you know, get triggered badly. 33:14 I mean, there's a lot of emotional dysregulation 33:16 that occurs with this neurofeedback because arguably one of the best 33:21 tools, extra tools for trauma. 33:24 So it doesn't mean you don't need to talk therapy. You do. 33:27 But one of the best trauma therapists that I've ever met said, she she and she's 33:32 written a book on neurofeedback and trauma and developmental trauma. 33:36 Seven Fisher. 33:37 And I asked her about what is the difference between you doing 33:41 trauma therapy now with their feedback versus what you used to do? 33:45 Because she did it for years without neurofeedback. 33:47 She says, what used to take me five years for 33:51 some of these complex cases to do, I can do in a year or less. 33:56 Yeah. 33:56 So it's just a great foundation that you can use with talk therapy 34:03 to get these kind of lasting healing results for people that are dealing 34:06 with PTSD or early childhood, 34:09 adverse adverse events and things like that.
Finding Practitioners and Other Nervous System Tools 34:13 And addiction, you know, we have addiction problem. 34:16 We have a sleep problem, we have a chronic sleep problem. 34:19 We have a chronic anxiety problem. 34:20 I don't know if you do. 34:21 You see that, 100%. Absolutely. 34:25 I mean, it's and, you know, it's 34:27 almost a pandemic of anxiety and sleep and of course, addiction. 34:31 So we need tools other there's not enough good talk therapist 34:34 around to deal with all these problems. 34:36 And if I can provide some tools 34:39 that help people get get their brain under control, 34:43 that helps all the other stuff work a lot better. 34:47 Yeah. No doubt. 34:48 And so obviously people can go out. 34:49 They can they can buy your book The Mind Rewired where and you also have 34:54 neurofeedback 101 where they can learn more about neurofeedback, how it works. 34:59 And it really gives them hope. 35:00 You know, in the Mind Rewired, you go over 25 35:02 stories of healing trauma, anxiety and beyond with with neurofeedback. 35:06 So they're going to be inspired by that. 35:09 Where can they where can people go to get neurofeedback treatments? 35:14 Is there, you know, a great website where they can find practitioners? 35:17 Obviously they can go to your website to learn more, which is center for brain.com. 35:22 Where can people find practitioners in their area, 35:24 or is it something that they can do virtually? 35:26 How do so I do even on my website, I give some guidelines on 35:30 how do you find neurofeedback providers in the book? 35:32 I give some guidelines. How do you find their feedback providers? 35:35 Look, the reality is you got to use you got to use Google. 35:38 And now I was going to play a role, 35:40 but I would say use Google to find people in your area. 35:43 Make sure that when you find someone that they actually have 35:47 a lot of information about neurofeedback, not that they just list neurofeedback 35:51 as one of their services. 35:52 You want somebody who's really spent time learning this, using it, 35:56 and you got to ask enough questions, 35:57 just like you would if you were saying, I want to come to you for trauma. 36:01 Well, I want to come to you for anxiety. 36:02 What's your experience? 36:03 You want to know some of that. 36:05 So because there's not enough neurofeedback people, 36:08 you kind of you're going to need to find people closer to where you live. 36:12 But I will say we are seeing, bigger, 36:15 you know, people who are further away and there's nobody really close to them. 36:19 We're doing a lot of what is called home use training, supporting people 36:22 where we train them. 36:24 They literally remotely we do it, you know, by zoom, for example, 36:28 there are a number of companies and other practices that do that. 36:31 So I encourage people just to look at what resources are 36:35 and options are available to them so that they can have access to this 36:40 and to recognize, by the way, and we didn't get a chance to talk about that. 36:43 There's a number of other tools that are emerging in my book, 36:47 you know, provide some information about that. 36:49 There are other really good tools to help regulate your nervous system. 36:54 Neurofeedback is not the only thing. 36:55 It's probably one of the strongest and best things, 36:58 but it's not always available. It's not always the cheapest. 37:01 So there's there's there's an emerging set of tools out there from vendors. 37:07 What are some of those tools you mentioned vagus nerve stimulators. 37:11 Right. 37:12 So there's something called audio visual entrainment, 37:15 which is basically think of a metronome for your brain. 37:19 So but it's with light and it's with sound and it's getting your brain 37:23 to pulse around a certain healthier frequency. 37:27 So it's driving, you know, you go to a disco and you dance to the beat. 37:30 Right. 37:30 So this is the heard of the brain. 37:32 Have you heard of the brain tap? 37:34 Yeah. 37:34 So brain tap is one of those is another company called Mind Alive there. 37:38 Some other companies come and and they do it in different ways. 37:41 So you have to kind of recognize is more than one way to do it 37:46 doesn't necessarily permanently help your brain shift. 37:49 Does anything permanently help your brain shift? 37:52 Neurofeedback often does. 37:54 But if you're eating crappy, if you live in a moldy environment, 37:57 you know, I mean, I want to go back to that 37:59 because I do mention you got to clean up your act 38:02 for this stuff to really work and these other tools. 38:05 PMF you've talked about PMF and light therapy. 38:08 Well, there's some specific types for the brain that also play a role. 38:13 So those are very important because PMF of and 38:17 and light therapy affect blood flow and metabolic activity in the brain. 38:22 You just need things that are a little more specialized. 38:25 Well, you'll get more impact if you get things that are a little more specialized. 38:29 From v light to a company called neuron X that make these light helmets 38:33 to, there's several PMF and there's a company called Neuro Field 38:38 that does something for very intensive pulsed magnetic fields.
Sleep as the Foundation for Brain Health 38:42 People might go, oh, aren't transcranial magnetic stimulation. 38:46 That's something a lot of psychiatrist do. 38:48 Isn't that magnets? 38:49 Well, that's magnets like with us. 38:51 Excuse me, a sledgehammer. It's hitting your. 38:54 It's hitting you with really high intensity magnetic fields. 38:58 But your body, you want your biology to shift 39:01 naturally and gently and not push too hard. 39:04 So we prefer actually lower level tools 39:08 over a longer period of time, if that makes sense. 39:11 Yeah for sure. 39:12 And and we'll probably a little bit more, more specialized, more personalized, 39:15 treatment protocols. Yeah. 39:18 Yeah. 39:19 Well this has been a it's been a really great interview. 39:21 I, I would recommend our listeners go out, check out your book. 39:24 You got two great ones with the new one is the Mind Rewire 39:27 25 Stories of Healing, trauma, anxiety and beyond with neurofeedback. 39:31 It's something all of us can benefit from, retraining our brain, right? 39:34 All of us have had trauma. 39:35 We've all had, you know, traumatic situations, 39:38 whether it was in early childhood or later in life as adults. 39:42 And, you know, we need to balance the brain and we balance the brain. 39:45 We're able to balance the sympathetic parasympathetic nervous system. 39:48 We're able to be in better control of our mind, 39:51 our emotions, our behaviors. 39:54 So, you know, that's going to form better relationships. 39:57 It's going to allow you to be more successful in your healthy 40:00 lifestyle pursuits and, have more joy, more happiness in life in general. 40:05 Better sleep, waking up refreshed, restored, less anxiety, less worry. 40:10 And, you know, more time to spend focusing on on your purpose 40:14 and things that you really desire in life. 40:16 So again, I would definitely recommend checking out the book 40:20 The Mind Rewired and also neurofeedback 101 from Michael Cohen. 40:24 And check out his website, center for brain.com. 40:27 And Michael, great interview. 40:28 Any last words inspiration here for our audience? 40:30 Well, I won't give an inspiration, 40:32 but I'll take off on something you said that didn't reinforce enough. 40:36 Sleep is number one, two and three. 40:38 If you are not waking up restored, if you are not, 40:43 if you are tired 40:44 during the day consistently, and I'm talking like 17 year olds, 40:49 20 year olds who are tired all day long, they tell you there's a problem 40:54 that needs to be addressed whichever way you get it. 40:57 That is the most important of all. 41:01 And neurofeedback is a very good tool for that. 41:03 But that's complex and it requires a multi-tiered approach. 41:06 So that's the one I'll tell people, you know, somebody who's tired in the day 41:11 or wakes up and doesn't feel refreshed within a half hour. 41:16 That's a reason to go 41:18 find out what they need to do something. 41:21 Yeah, no doubt about it. 41:22 Absolutely. 41:23 Well, thanks again, Michael, for this great interview. 41:25 And guys, again, check out his books neurofeedback 101 and The Mind Rewired. 41:31 You can find those on Amazon.com. 41:33 And also his website center for brain.com. 41:35 Thanks again for your time Michael. Everybody be blessed
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