Unlock Fasting’s Power Without The Hunger

William Hsu, MD

Hi, Laurie. Thank you.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Well, I’m excited to have you here because you’re representing an alternative to just strictly fasting. Let’s talk a little bit about the difference between fasting and a Fasting-Mimicking Diet, which your company L-Nutra utilizes for health care.

William Hsu, MD

Yes, we’re a 21st-century solution to getting the benefits of fasting without putting it through fasting. It is the new century we’ve got. We’ve gained a lot of understanding about the molecular pathways around fasting and what happens to the cells. We’ve leveraged that molecular knowledge and come up with precision nutrition that gives you many of the benefits of fasting without putting you through a prolonged fast. Now, this is important. If intermittent fasting could solve all our problems, if intermittent fasting alone can do many of the great things that we hope that it would do, then we don’t need to mimicking fasts. We don’t need to mimic fasts. But now we’ve learned that many of the deep changes on the cellular level that support longevity and health take quite a bit of time. It is too long for most people, including myself. Then look at it; we can go into that a little bit later. But suffice it to say that because it takes a long time to see the true benefit of prolonged fasts, we’ve come up with this technology called the fasting mimicking technology, which we can talk about more later.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Absolutely. Can you describe what you mean by a longer period? How long are we talking about?

William Hsu, MD

Yes. I think, for a lot of people, other than weight loss, which is an important goal, many people are fasting for the longevity benefit and the overall health benefit. For that to happen. It’s a great story. You think about it—what does it take? What does it take for the cells to turn over to create this new health paradigm? It takes humans probably more than three days. and that’s because of the process of cellular rejuvenation; we use the term autophagy. Your listeners have probably heard this before. The autophagy cells’ eating process only gets triggered when there’s enough stress and pressure on the cells. Let me describe that process a little bit. It’s when food is not available for a prolonged period. The cell says, My goodness, I got to survive. How do I do that? On the other hand, the cells are going to hand down the fats, and they’re going to endow many other storage energy stores. But inside the cells, it gets to a point where the cell says, I better find something inside, rather than going outside, because I just don’t know when this is going to stop.

As the cells through however many years you believe with existed on Earth, by perhaps a couple of hundred million years and probably even longer, just as life forms are adaptive mechanisms where it says, I need food, but I can get it from outside. Which part of my cell can I sacrifice? Not the whole cell. Because if you sacrifice the whole cells, the cell dies. Has to be part of the cells. Which one would you pick? Would you pick the brain? The cells, which? The nucleus? Probably not. There would be death. Would you pick the most valuable part of the cells this young and vibrant? Probably not. In the cold New England winter where you need heating, you need food, you need coal, and you run out of them. What are you going to do? Do you get it? You’re going to look around your friends and your cells. What am I going to take, and not your grandmother’s heirloom furniture? It’s probably going to be the chair that was there anyway has broken.

Let me just throw that away. Burning keeps the house warm until the night passes and the same thing, the cell is going to look for misfolded proteins. It’s going to look for dysfunctional mitochondria. It will look for anything older and potentially less valuable. That selection process has been honed species over species time, over time, and to a point where the cells know exactly what to do when you fast. But the process cannot be triggered every night. If we simply do 16/8, do you think the cells are going to chew themselves up after 6 hours of starvation? Of course not. It has to be existential stress. That often means three days, four days, and perhaps even longer. This is why we don’t recommend doing it too fast because that’s too difficult to do for three, four, or five days. This is also an opportunity where technology such as fasting or mimicking diets becomes relevant.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

That is interesting. Now we understand that the actual stress of fasting will cause the body or the cells to become hyper-vigilant and more resourceful. Reuse, recycle, etc., which we should be doing anyway. Just a regular but our cells will do that. How does the fasting-mimicking diet do this? I mean, we are consuming some calories. How does that work? What is going on on the cellular physiologic level?

William Hsu, MD

That a lot of people ask questions—well, this is an oxymoron. When you are fasting, you’re giving food. How is that possible? This is where I think understanding the physiology and the cellular signaling helps. But when we don’t eat any food, when we’re fasting, is our nutrition and nutrient level dropped to zero? Does it drop down during the lower body? Of course not. Glucose is always within the normal range of less than a hundred milligrams per deciliter. It’s not that glucose is always zero when we fast; it’s not that proteins or amino acids are always zero. They’re always nutrients in our bodies. They’re also these nutrient sensors called working a thermostat on the surface of the cells, the senses, if there’s glucose, there’s protein, amino acids, carbohydrates, these nutrients passing by.

As long as you don’t trigger these nutrient sensors, you can fly under the radar with these nutrients. What if we give you the amount of nutrients that fall below the detection threshold of these nutrient sensors? There is a way to keep the cells quiet and think it’s fasting, but you’re getting some nutrients. That’s the genius behind this. Now, I did not invent this. I wish this came out of the University of Southern California Longevity Labs and Professor Valter Longo at USC, in his longevity labs. He came up with this 25 years ago. NIH funded over 36 million dollars. I’ll tell you the story that he started looking at: the intersection between fasting, nutrition, and longevity. His professor studied people in the biospheres. If you recall the experiment where people went in their lives for a year, dining inside the biosphere, and when people came out they were fasting? Because there’s not a lot of food. When those folks came out, they weren’t happy, and they weren’t healthy. Then they lost muscle mass. You could go watch and read the reports from those. 

They learn a lot that pure starvation itself is stressful to the body. It’s amazing how the body uses its fasting to clean up the cells and rejuvenate them. But if you do it for the long term, it is not good. Valter begins to look at this intersection between nutrition, fasting, and longevity. There’s got to be an intersection there where it’s optimal, where you’re not starving too much, but the amount of nutrients, the amount of starvation phase. But also on the flip side of that, the re-feeding phase, a lot of people don’t talk about that. Once you shrink the cells, it’s great that you’re getting rid of the old parts of the cells. But you’ve got to grow back now. When you grow back, you want to make sure that you eat light. The parts that are replaced are still with good nutrients, thereby completing the cycles and replacing older parts of the cells with new ones. No medicine does that. You think about that,?

They shrink the cells, get rid of the old parts in there, and replace them with new ones. How do you do that? Well, how many drugs is it going to take? Think about this fasting process. It’s stressful for every part of the body. It’s not just unique to the fat cells. It’s not unique only to the muscle cells but also to the skin, the heart, and the lungs. You can imagine that this autophagy process occurs in almost every cell in the body. This is what I call the miracle life. This is how we came to exist on this beautiful earth for all this time. When nature deals us with a challenging environment and no food, we turn that disadvantage into an advantage. This is the beautiful story of life on this earth.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

That’s fantastic. There is resolve rejuvenation. you how the fasting-mimicking diet is flying under the radar, so to speak. You’re still providing some nutrients to my mind. I’m sure there’s a mental component to this. You’re not fasting; you’re feeling deprived. We speak to the types of foods that are included in this. Is there a particular macronutrient ratio, or how does it all fly under the radar? Are the basal glucose and proteins available for continued living in a fasted state? How do you measure that? Is it watching glucose rise, or how do you know what that limit is?

William Hsu, MD

This is where the 36 million dollars of research started. It started with a very simple single-cell organism to see what triggers how much it triggers in multicellular organisms and then in animal models. Then, finally, it’s been validated with 18 clinical trials, and we have 14 new ones ongoing now. I mean, this is the story of research and development. We prided ourselves on the fact that when it comes to data, we don’t mince resources. This is where we feel we need to bring the next generation of innovation in health care. You have to lead with science. You have to lead with evidence.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Absolutely. Can we talk a little bit about the food, and what’s that?

William Hsu, MD

Let’s do that. Yes. We have many choices,? We have many choices about how we could make them into a specific format, but we feel that for this to be a lifestyle, it should be items that people are similar to. You should not be injected. You should not be a pill. You should be something this represents; it’s part of the lifestyle. So it’s going to come in the form of soups, bars, capsules for some micronutrients, vitamins, and other, special drinks. That is, it’s a decision on our part. We want everybody to incorporate this as part of their lifestyle. so you will see in five days, but so that comes in in the product itself, which comes in the box each day, has an allocated amount of food, very well spelled out the morning you consume this, lunch you consume this. Each one is meticulously calculated and developed to keep the body in a fasting state, so it’s shop it’s shopping free it’s thinking free it’s you just follow whatever it’s been tested in 18 clinical trials and it’s through 20 years of research, and the items in there are all done with this fasting-mimicking technology to keep your body in a fasting state. It’s a balance because we want the balance. What is striking is the difference between efficacy, which mimicking-fasting, and also support. In other words, nourishing your body during the five days.

We can drop it down to five calories if we want to, but then the support aspect would not be optimized. The macronutrients there in general tend to be low in protein but sufficient to maintain that function, cellular function, for five days. But why do we intend to do this with a lower amount of protein macronutrients? Protein is one of the strongest stimuli for cellular growth, even more so than sugar. After all, protein is the building block of the body of the cells. If you have any proteins that trigger the nutrient sensors, the sensor is going to say, let’s not rejuvenate; let’s not go into autophagy because food is still around. Hold on a second. Let’s grow. Even though it could be very low calories, if the signals are being perceived by the cells as signal growth, even though it’s low calories, you’re not sleeping. The cells are not going to go to that rejuvenation stage. You’re not getting quite the benefits that a lot of people say, It’s just low calories; it is not. If you simply have low calories but still stimulate these nutrient sensors, then you’re just losing weight. You’re not getting the cells to experience this existential crisis. That’s why all the details are so intricate and so it’s low in protein. 

Let me just finish that part. But the carbohydrate is needed. We have complex carbohydrate data. There were high fiber contents in there as well. It’s important because, remember, it’s about getting the efficacy of fasting but also nourishment. One of the key aspects we want to drive with all of our innovation is that we want people to preserve their lean body mass. Fasting naturally protects the muscle cells because it’s a stress to the body, and the hormones and other x are going to support muscle health. But on the other hand, this is specially formulated to make sure that you don’t lose muscle mass, so carbohydrates—complex carbohydrates—are needed over there. Otherwise, the body’s going to go to the muscle and say, Hey,  I need energy. It’s going to go into our glycogen storage and say, I need energy, but it’s not a good discriminator. Some of your muscles would be used up in this five-day fasting that is not 5 hours, but five days.  Inside the product, also has specially formulated drinks, which we call L-drink, which also help to protect the muscles. Everything is plant-based gluten-free, and we use the highest quality ingredients in this, so that’s our flagship product called the Fasting-Mimicking Diet, and it’s available for purchase by the name ProLon. Now we have also taken this concept a step further by creating a comprehensive program with medical supervision and tailored dieticians, incorporating fasting and mimicking days as part of that, as well as longevity and nutrition, all as part of the program to help people reverse their disease conditions, such as diabetes.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

That’s a perfect segue into the next question, which was: do you have individuals who, partake in this because we already know the power of a whole food plant-based side? Just switching that, you’ll see people stopping insulin and reducing their blood pressure medications very quickly at times. You have the program with the medical supervision piece. Can you speak to what’s going on in the body that allows that to happen so quickly and why medical supervision, or at least awareness of engaging your physician, is important because medication overdosing is that point?

William Hsu, MD

That’s so important. We’re an ethical company, and that’s why we wanted to create a medical arm called L-Nutra Health to help people manage this, not using medications, but with the hope of reducing medication. Allow me to explain. You see the current state. I’m an endocrinologist, by the way, so I’ve managed patients with diabetes for over 20 years, and the standard of care says, Hey when you have diabetes, all you need to do is control your blood glucose. That’s the game, But when you think about it, what that means is that there is no end to this condition, and that means that you’re living with a lifelong dependency on medications for the rest of your life. It’s a life sentence. Now we learn from many insights coming from bariatric surgery, from intensive weight loss, and even from our study with fasting and mimicking diets that type 2 diabetes can be reversible. Major organizations got together and defined that term. They don’t use the word reversal. They use the word remission. That means when you get your hemoglobin A1C, which is a marker of your glucose level over the past three months, down to less than six and a half for three months without a drug, without any help from a drug, a diabetes drug, then you are in a state of diabetes remission. To me, that is great news that we haven’t talked about. As a medical community, we don’t talk enough about it. Even though the American Diabetes Association, the Endocrine Society, and the European Organizations on Diabetes all embrace this new definition, This is also why I want to come on to your show today, Laurie, to talk about how our listeners with type 2 diabetes, hypertension, and other chronic illnesses experience freedom from drugs because they only do the right thing. We put together a program leveraging the power of fasting and medical supervision. You said it because it works. We need doctors to prescribe, de-escalate, or simply, using simple terms, just drop these multiple medications. Our patients are here now. We have the data to show that. 

The beauty is that with this approach, you’re not just targeting a specific pathway in the body using a drug. Think about it. If you have to target blood pressure, insulin resistance, cholesterol, and glucose, then, of course, no wonder people with type 2 diabetes are, on average, taking 5 to 6 strokes. When we’re fasting or mimicking a diet under the supervision of a program or a physician, we’re addressing many different aspects. The mother, I’m sorry to use a sexist example. Maybe you’re the father of a chronic illness. Insulin resistance. You’re treating the root cause of hypertension, inflammation, insulin resistance plus oxygen, and stress—all of these are tied together at the root. A lot of these lifestyle interventions, which I know Lori, a big proponent of exercise, de-stress, sleeping well. Community, the multiple pillars of nutrition now we’re adding to it, hoping that this prolonged fasting assimilated through nutrition can add to synergistic to add up to these amazing lifestyle medicine pillars.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

That’s fantastic. I want to get deeper into the conversation about the diet, as well as how often you should use it. But first, I want to thank everyone for joining us today, and I hope you found this conversation insightful and engaging. If you’re a summit purchaser, stay here because we’re about to dive deeper into this very informative and helpful discussion. If not, click on the button below or to the side and access the rest of the conversation. If you’re watching this, thank you for being a valuable member of our community, and let’s continue the conversation. Can we speak to you about the five days of the program, the only four programs under medical supervision? What comes after that? How often are they going to be using this? Is this one-and-done? What type of diet is encouraged afterward? Can we speak to that?

William Hsu, MD

That’s a great, great question. certainly, our flagship intervention, nutrition, and nutrition intervention are going to be just fast, and they’re picking diet. How often and how long you do it depends on the dietitian. The registered dietitian is also with the physician who’s supervising this. Now, if you have your physician, we’re happy to work with your physician. If you don’t have a physician, we provide one through our telehealth partner, together with our dieticians, who are trained in longevity, dietitians, nutrition, and science. They’re going to tailor the program for you as a clinical trial. I’ll just tell you what our study shows. Then and then certainly there are going to be modifications based on each person’s own needs. Our clinical trial shows six repeated cycles of 76 and so five days per month. Now, as a clinician, if you say well beyond your best behavior era, I lost weight in six months. No one’s going to do it. But if you negotiate and say five days, can you give me five days a month? Give me retention. Your effort is not going to be the easiest thing to do, but there’s going to be food. Can you do it? Almost everybody says we can do it. It’s just five days for six months consecutively. We show that people, first of all, will lose an average of 22 pounds. Well, and most of that is fat-driven. Okay. That means they preserve their lean body mass. Think about that. 22 pounds, mostly fat with preservation, lean body mass up. Because you don’t want to lose weight and become weaker.

You think about whether, typically, when you lose weight with a low-calorie diet, you lose about a third of your weight due to muscle loss. That’s 7 pounds of muscle. How hard is it to gain 7 pounds of muscle? I think that’s one result. But people also decrease their hemoglobin a1c by 1.4%, which is very, very good, comparable to a drug with, what, 30 days of plant-based effort? Think about this in six months. In addition to this, what’s most amazing is that people were reducing their medications along the way. 67%—two-thirds of the people—experienced a reduction in their diabetes medicine. This is why I think this is the power of lifestyle medicine. What we’ve done through our program is to make sure you go through the journey safely. Number one. Number two is that we make it easier for you to do that. You have to not see the world five days out of the month. Now you can still operate, and you can still function. and so that’s hopefully our lead. We believe we’re on the side of medicine. We are, you could say, pioneers in this space. Introducing this powerful nutrition intervention in the context of a program. Have I addressed what you’re asking?

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Yes. I think this is fabulous. People need to understand all the benefits. There are no negative side effects that I can see. You’re using food as medicine, number one. You’re also engaging the body in its ability without drugs because nobody can do it as well as the body to recycle and rejuvenate. You’re promoting longevity, but you’re also seeing repair and remission. Whatever the verbiage, it doesn’t matter about chronic diseases, disengaging your medications, or prescribing, which along with side effects. We’re seeing a lot of benefits here, and they lose weight, feel better, and have more energy. I’m assuming that’s just a natural side effect. I don’t see any negatives here. It seems to me you’re more than on the side of medicine. This is the way we should all be engaging in medicine.

William Hsu, MD

In the meantime, we’ve had folks go through the program, and I can tell you, they come in; they initially came in for the weight loss. They come for the metabolic benefits. But they stay in the program. Yes. all those benefits. But they see the problem because, from the way they feel, there’s a sense of accomplishment. I did it. Every couple of weeks is one less medicine. The dose has been dropped, and I can live my life. They look at themselves in the mirror and say, Well, I look better, and I don’t feel weaker. Those are the comments they get from families and friends, knowing that they are taking care of themselves. The sense of accomplishment and the desire to do even more is in the heart of the physician. To me, that’s everything I wanted. But in the past, it was more here’s another drug, another drug, another drug, another drug to control your glucose, this drug. I can do this ABCD. I hope it wasn’t easy for me to leave medicine and become the Chief Medical Officer for L-Nutra. But I’m hoping I’m giving more people tools to be in charge of their health now.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Absolutely. The content information will be listed in a bit. Can we talk a little bit about how people can engage with L-Nutra and become a part of the program?

William Hsu, MD

Yes. If you’re seeking health and wellness, if you’re looking for healthy longevity as part of your preventive, everyday health, you can look for ProLon and go to a website, prolonlife.com. That’s where you can purchase a box of the fast-mimicking diet. But if you are struggling to live with chronic conditions like diabetes and metabolic syndromes and are looking for a natural way to drive those chronic conditions into remission, please come to L-Nutra. That’s our company name, l-nutrahealth.com. Come in there. Regardless, of whether you’re a physician or you want to be a telehealth physician there, we can arrange that for you. It’s a membership program because we want to go through this journey with you and support you along the way. l-nutrahealth.com 

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Perfect. This is fabulous. Thank you so much. One for taking on the flagship role of bringing this to a community of people who need it. I appreciate you sharing your time with us today.

William Hsu, MD

Thank you so much. I hope this has been helpful for your listeners.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Absolutely.