Ayurveda to Heal The Heart

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Good day. Everybody, grab your pad of paper. Grab a pen. We got another just superstar. Seriously, it's blows me away. What an opportunity I have to learn with you. And we are going to delve into a way of heal your heart naturally summit. And we're going to go to the oldest medical tradition in the world. I believe that's an accurate statement, which is, are you Vedic medicine? And I didn't go far to bring a world expert because this is a local Detroit friend, colleague, somebody I participated in training and, world expert in both the standard cardiology.

Believe me, when I was a world expert. And also, are you Vedic medicine? And, you want to follow her on social media? The most beautiful, meaningful post. And you want to buy her books and struggle with them, like I do, to get through them and try and learn, because we literally could spend hours and not even scratch the surface. So, Doctor Kavitha Chinnaiyan and thank you for being here in your busy life. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me here. It is truly an honor and as I shared with you, we have a history that goes back, almost 20 years, at our shared hospital, affiliation and training and patient care and just the biggest, biggest respect.

But let me give you a formal bio. It's due process. You are a cardiologist and of course, board certified. You've got many accolades. You're professor of medicine at the Oakland University, William Beaumont School of Medicine. You're not just that. You're the director of cardiac imaging research. And, those that are watching the summit. Well, now, we've also interviewed two colleagues of Doctor Chennai and somebody she publishes with nonstop doctor Matthew boot off and Doctor James or Jim Min, and, her academic output is amazing.

Very interested in cardiovascular disease and women appropriate use of cardiac imaging. Her research focuses on CT technology, which you can learn more of, probably in those other lectures. Not going to go deep on that here. But doctor Jeanine is a world expert. What's unique about her is this massive academic and clinical expertise. And she's just a loved cardiologist combined with years and years of self, teaching and a study. She's studied Tantra, Advaita Vedanta, yoga. Are you vet? She's taught all over the world.

She set up an institute called the the Institute. It's a beautiful social media post to follow. Just completed some training called renegade. Maybe we'll talk about that. During, the last decade, she had healed your heart. She would take time out of her life to do a program. Maybe we'll talk about that a little bit. For heart patients at Beaumont. We were a very high tech hospital and doctor Chennai and brought that high touch, open heart beauty to many heart patients. And then the last little bit and we got to get going is, I do know about seven, eight years ago, doctor Chennai and called me to say you've published books.

I want to write one. Can you connect me to an agent? And I was delighted and honored to do that. It turned out to be a very good connection. But Kavitha wasn't satisfied. So she had to publish two books at once. I mean, I write one book at a time. One of the books went on to win the Is Gold Award for Best Books of 2017, called Shakti Rising. She wrote a book more about Heart, opening, called Heart of Wellness Glorious Alchemy, and just recently published a book called Fractals of Reality. So you do really want to dig into this very deep.

So thank you. Kavitha and cardiologist. Mother, wife, inspiring human being. Thank you. Jill, thank you so much. I think we filled the whole interview with trying to get the content is there, but. All right, let's focus on this unique aspect. Many people here can go to a standard cardiologist. If they have a need. They might go to an integrative cardiologist like I am that has a couple of books on are you better in my office? But I would by no means know what's in your pinky, as my expertise. And then there are a rare breed like you could be a, a holistic person.

A natural path could be somebody that grew up in the Indian culture or self-trained. What the heck is are your Veda? And then we'll talk about what its role in heart health is. Sure. I you read the the word comes from two words are you and Veda whether means knowledge and it's not knowledge as in transactional knowledge,

What Ayurveda Is and Its Core Texts 4:24

but eternal knowledge as an knowledge that is applicable at all times. So whatever is applicable on earth should be applicable on Jupiter, as long as the physical laws are the same. And so it's a very logical system and it's called the signs of life. So, health is considered to be part of that. And it's very interesting that it's not real. It's not really medical science. It's the signs of life. And within that, the scope of that broad signs of life, you have this aspect of health and disease and how everything in life is going to have an impact on health and disease.

So it's not really, you know, it's not really the kind of, linear way that we look at health and disease in Western medicine, where it's like an etiology. This caused this entire whether like other eastern systems, it's a lot of things caused this, many of which are unseen and, and, and so we need to account for that as long as we can understand that logically, then we can, find a cure or a management or a therapeutic plan based on not just, you know, this very, a limited view of health, but actually much more expansive.

And that includes, the effect of the mind, emotions and, the effect of community and family and, and your, trauma, your intergenerational kinds of interactions and, and just the way we even think and feel about life. So everything is included in that etiology, so to speak, of disease and as like the true holistic approach to life and health is part of life. Exactly. I mean, ancient 5000 years estimated, traditions. Yes. It's many thousands of years old. And according to some scholars, maybe 3500 to 5000 years old.

And, and the beauty as actually I find it really fascinating that a lot of the discoveries that are now showing up in modern science have already been described in this science. So it's it's quite fascinating that it all comes back full circle. And if one actually wanted to go back and read original text, maybe was able to read Sanskrit, what are I? I think I know the name, but it's not coming to me. What are some of like the fundamental treatises, ancient treatises and personalities? Yeah. So the the most important textbooks I would say are, the one that standard is called hit the Karaka and, that's the, the sage that is the credit to have composed that.

It's called Karaka. The other is called the search route. The sun hit the witch. So she actually was a surgeon. So that whole treatise is about surgical methods, and they're still used now a very, very effective. And then there is a, a, a, a another text that is used very often in and it's easier to understand, it's kind of a distillation of all these concepts. And that's called the Ashtanga rhythm. So those three are the kind of the, the triad of these texts within our Vedic medicine. Now, a lot of people did not relate to the first two texts, but the word Ashtanga, a lot of people will recognize as a type of yoga asana.

Usually it's in the early in the morning without Mick Jagger music playing in the background. Yeah, that's a very different one though. Ashtanga yoga is very different. And, yeah, that's more modern and that's like a posture based thing that was developed in in the south of India. This is Ashtanga today, which is tired Vedic text. I just want to keep the audience intact, that at least they can spell one of those words. Yes. What? So you're a cardiologist? A great esteem and success. And, I'm a cardiologist.

What does are your Vedic tradition and training of which you have such expertise? How does it relate to heart health? As a broad answer. And then I'm going to ask you a little more specifically. Yeah. So heart health, you know, as, as, as we, we both know and we have, you know, we have really gone a lot into this. The, the basis for, for instance, in coronary artery disease is inflammation. And, and then the cascade of inflammatory markers and, and so on and so forth that results in atherosclerosis and all of its, manifestations.

Ayurvedau2019s View of Heart Disease 9:20

Now in our the two it is a problem of inflammation, but that inflammation is much more upstream. When we look at what is causing that. And that has to do with an imbalance in the body mind in that has resulted in this inflammatory process and that the the imbalance, so to speak, is off on many levels. So it is an imbalance of first and foremost what is called agni or the power of transformation, which means that anything we eat, anything we ingest, anything we encounter in life has to be ingested.

We are ingesting the outside world and bringing it in and making it an internal experience. So that is known as a power of transformation. And so how we process not just food, but also how we process information, how we process sense perception is all part of Agni. And when that Agni is out of balance for various reasons, and a lot of it has to do with lifestyle, then that's sets the inflammatory process going. And that inflamed inflammatory process is on various levels. It's it's part of the way we process things in the brain.

It's part of the way we process things in the emotional body. And then that reflects also in the physical body. And then eventually as part of this epigenetic thing that becomes part of the genes and how those genes are expressed, continuing on with that inflammatory or that disease process, so to speak, for instance, of coronary artery disease. And so we can explain many of the heart, disease processes through these kind of fundamental concepts. So one is that Agni, the other is based on an understanding of three primary forces in our better known as the dosha.

And, one is the, the force of movement, which is known as water, which means the movement of peristalsis, the movement of air, the movement of blood, the movement of blood in circulation, the movement of electrical signals. Any form of movement down to the cellular level is because of Lata. Then there is pitta, which is the the force of. Again change, which is when you know all the chemical changes that are happening on a moment to moment basis, the neurotransmitter effect, the digestive effect, the, the assimilation effect, all of it, the metabolic effects, everything is part of pitta.

And then there is copper, which is the anabolic, force, so to speak, which is that of structure. So everything that is digested, assimilated, then becomes part of the structure. And so when there is an imbalance, very simplistically speaking, of these three forces, an imbalance of Agni, things are taken in, but they are not digested, they are not, eliminated as they should be, and that, you know, these subtle toxic thing, kind of things kind of accumulate to become more and more gross from, you know, the subtle to the more gross it resulting in heart problems, any kind of health problems and as in functional medicine, in our Veda two, you know, all the symptoms that we see there, like the leaves of a tree and if we go down to the root, there is one fundamental problem.

And if we can fix that, if we can pay attention to that, then the branches of the leaves take care of themselves. Okay, that was beautiful. I will shout out to all the listeners. I have tried to wrap my, Western head around the dosages over and over. I've taken tests to see what is my particular pattern. I seem to be a little bit of everything and that isn't all that uncommon. Anybody listening? If you just go to one of the web searches and put in dosha quiz, you'll be able to do that. Many of the, botanical companies that prepare, compounds like triple and others will offer a free dosha quiz and analysis.

You might want to find out, you know what your are you Vedic tendencies are from that ancient tradition, and I don't know if that's so with all the, you know, incredible depth of what you just share with us. I want to get practical for a minute. You're in clinic next week, and I refer to you a surgeon I'm thinking of with very advanced heart disease. And I have these glorious moments at my clinic. I say that where I'm congratulating myself, that I'm the first one that diagnosed their light bulb protein access, or they're able e4 genetic inheritance or their massive inflammation by a series of biomarkers.

But then this guy has gotten their disease. And 50 tests later, other than an occasional hot dog at the Detroit Lions game, I mean, it's unexplained. So, you know, I'm going to send you that and you're going to say, I don't have much more to do from a standard cardiology standpoint. He's had a coronary CT angiogram at your facility, our facility. But what would your are you vetting background. You've got 45 to 60 minutes. What are you going to ask him. How are you going to examine what might you order.

What might you refer to it really the core is how would are you background assist in a challenging patient like that. So the the fundamental premise of our data is, you know, the difference between Western medicine and I realized it's in Western medicine, for instance, we focus on a lot on what you can eat and what you should eat and what you shouldn't eat. So there's this whole thing of plant based diets or keto or this or that. It's all about what to eat in our weather. We don't care about that as much as what you can digest.

You can eat whatever, but if you can't digest it, you're still accumulating those toxins which have nowhere to go. So it is really, it is really an approach of figuring out what the digestive issue is, what you're not able to digest, and then prescribe a lifestyle around that. And as far as you know, anybody coming to me is concerned, one of the things I really focus on is this what are you able to digest? Yes. You know, what you eat and what I prescribe as a diet is going to be based on what is the easiest to digest, not on, you know, proteins, carbohydrates, fats.

That's not part of our radar at all. We don't do macronutrients in, in our weather because you can eat protein all you want. You can eat or not eat carbs, but if you're not able to digest whatever it is you're eating, it's not going to make much of a difference. On the other hand, if your digestion is really good, you can eat anything and you're not going to have a problem. That's why there's such a huge variation in people and and their whole, you know, dietary things because one diet doesn't work for 100% of the people.

Practical Assessment and Daily Rhythm 16:58

Right. And what would you what would you ask? Or how would you examine or test that patient to determine that? I mean, is that blood testing? Is it, you know, share with us the questions you might ask that sample patient that I don't know how to ask. Yeah. Well, it's you know, there are different ways to diagnose. So one is, you know, I can check their pulse and and that is actually a whole different science, which requires a lot of experience. It's not something you learn over a weekend workshop.

And to go and look at pulse from an aerobic standpoint. But there is a way to check, you know, the pulse to kind of make a diagnosis. In fact, there are already practitioners who don't who don't even touch you. They just look at you and know what the problem is because there is, you know, this, this way of diagnosing, various illnesses through that. And, in terms of, you know, what what you what else you can ask it is things like, you know, do they have a do you have heartburn? Do you sleep well at night?

Are you the kind that goes to sleep, wakes up and can go back to sleep? Or are you the kind that can go to sleep at all, tosses and turns and then goes to sleep and then you're okay? You remain sleeping? Are you the kind who you know has constipation? Sometimes diarrhea sometimes. Okay sometimes? Or are you the kind that needs to wake up every morning, have a cup of tea or coffee or something warm to get, you know, your, peristalsis going? What? What kind of a lifestyle do you need? Do you eat a lot of salads?

Do you eat a lot of, you know, cold, dry things? Do you have, like, dry hair? And these are things that you don't even need to ask. You just know when you look at people. So depending on that, then, you know, my main focus in my medical practice is to, is really to, emphasize the issue of a circadian rhythm and to prescribe a lifestyle based on that. And I can't tell you how miraculous it is. It is absolutely wonderful. And you don't even need to ask a lot of questions. I have the same prescription for everybody eat on eat at this time.

Don't eat at this time. Sleep at this time. Wake up at this time. And if all you did, it's share with us what that might be. If it's the same for everybody, it is the same for everybody. And, you may know, you know, there's this whole field now of Chrono Nutrition and, there is this thing of chronobiology which has a lot of research on shift work, for instance, and a lot of, research in, in that in fact, in 2017, I believe two Americans won the Nobel Prize for describing the, circadian rhythm and the and the genetic, basis of the circadian rhythm and these two catabolic and anabolic pathways, which must be kept separated into the day and night cycles, the cortisol pathway in during the day and the melatonin pathway at night.

And so if you can take advantage of that and eat only during cortisol pathway, as in do not eat after 6:00 is my prescription for everyone. So don't eat after six, eat a very light meal in the evening and and then don't eat beyond that. Go to sleep at ten. Wake up at five. Don't sleep during the day so no napping during the day. Keep it simple. Eat at the same time every day. In fact, for for a while now, I do recommend that people eat only twice a day. So eat at 9 to 5. Don't eat otherwise. So this is the this goes along with the principle of intermittent fasting.

But again that's because of the circadian rhythm. And that's the you know, that's one of the, things I was telling you about earlier that all of this has been described in I read, in different terms thousands of years ago, but we now have a genetic, basic basis for understanding it. You know, all the different proteins and genes that are involved in it. All right, let's talk for a minute. You've written books. You're an expert on the role of mind and emotions in heart disease. And I'd love you to share your thoughts.

Maybe how you probe that with patients in the clinic. Yeah, I do think that, the the role of the mind and the role of emotions in, in, in the causative and the temporal association with disease has not been really understood or given importance to, in modern medicine for a very long time. Only recently is there even talk about that. So and and we do know that there are, very specific, pathways that are involved in stress and heart disease, for instance. So you can be doing everything right. And I'm so sure you see patients like this, they are on the right diet, the right diet.

They, you know, don't really have a whole lot of genetic, you know, predisposition to something. And, but they have, you know, either a lot of, well, stress that they can't handle because that's really that's what stresses stress is something that supersedes our ability to handle it. And, for, for somebody just being stuck in a traffic jam may be very stressful for somebody else. Being in a natural disaster, maybe not as stressful. So it all depends on how much resilience we have. And so, stress is directly linked to inflammatory pathways.

And we know this, of course, from biology and all the different hormonal pathways that are involved in that. So it directly affects, the, cortisol pathways, the adrenaline pathways. And over time, that is an apologetic factor. You can be doing everything else. It's an independent genic factor. And numerous studies have now shown this. And the inter heart study showed that psychosocial stress actually was the number one cause of, coronary events even above and over diabetes, hypertension, smoking and other kinds of traditional risk factors.

And so it is a big deal. We know stress cardiomyopathy. Talk about Sibo syndrome, for instance, is a thing. And we know the association of, emotional, issues, mental health issues with coronary artery disease, with arrhythmias, with sudden cardiac death. It's a huge association with all of that. And if we don't address that appropriately, I think we are doing a disservice. Yeah. I learned something fascinating by interviewing another, guest on this wonderful summit, Doctor Isaac Eliaz of the AMA Tumor Institute in Santa Rosa, California.

And he's been showing that uncontrolled stress or stress can, raise, and release galectin three, biomarker you and I know about, but not very often tested and discussed that can directly cause fibrosis of heart tissue, kidney tissue. And you know, that is a new and exciting and maybe new pathway of, natural intervention and ultimately pharmacologic intervention, maybe just managing stress. Might be, you know, the root cause, root to it is, is you teach so listeners, you know, might want to say, this is amazing, but, you know, what can I what's one tip?

Mind, Stress, and Emotional Health 24:58

You've given us a couple tips you've given us? Go to bed, wake up on a standard schedule. You suggested 10 to 5. Pretty close to my own schedule. You've suggested two meals a day. As a thought. That's consistent with our your vada. And, considering carefully if your diet of choice is working for you in ways you suggested, maybe one more. I mean, anything you can pull out of the. Are you that tradition? There could be an herbal approach. It could be, a thought, that you'd like to share that. Yeah.

Even on your own daily routine that you add in to a very busy schedule. You know, I like to think keep things very simple and, and and you know, what I been talking about, which is with regard to stress, is that if we can only learn to differentiate between what is really going on and what my interpretation of that is, my level of stress will actually start to change drastically, because all of our stress comes from interpretation of data and and there are three aspects to, wellness and health, in my opinion.

One is this regularity of schedule. The second is knowing really empowering yourself with aspects of your health. And and this is where I truly believe that holism is does not exclude one for the other. So I don't have a problem, prescribing statins, for instance, prescribe a lot of it at the same time saying, you know, we could certainly look into when you may not need it. And that is when you know your digestion is better and so on. And the third is really learn to have a pragmatic, openhearted approach to life.

And that is that's going to go a much longer way than taking herbs nonchalantly. I'm not a fan of taking herbs, okay? Herbs don't help in either way though. If your lifestyle is great, you don't need herbs 75% of the time. If after lifestyle you still have some residual risk, that's when herbs are prescribed. So we never, you know, the way I've learned from my teachers, we don't prescribe herbs unless the lifestyle is set right first. And that's a beautiful an interesting approach. I do want to give everybody, a clue to where to find you a beautiful website.

Kavitha Cavite, md.com. You'll find links to Doctor Janine's books or SaPD Institute. Maybe we'll ask you about that in a minute. Some beautiful chanting and videos that I encourage everybody, or you'll have a better day if you go over to Kavitha, MD, A.com and just, open up one of the, chanting videos and just play it in the background during your day. I assure you, it's beautiful. Tell us about the sub, the ins. I mean, I will say you have not followed the pure academic path of working yourself in a dusty office in a hospital.

Do your 75. You've gone part time and still are a very active clinician, and you're following, you know, your heart with, books and teachings and learnings and, but you've actually set up an institute and who listening. I believe it's for women only. And correct me if I'm wrong, but tell us a little about this job. The SAB da Institute. Well, it's actually pronounced shop the shop the men's word and, like the primordial word and, the vibration. So to speak. And, no, it's not just for women. It's open to everyone.

And in fact, I do have a lot of people who are who don't identify as women who are who are part of it. I do have specialized programs for women. And, but there are other programs that welcome everybody. And, the purpose of this institute was really to disseminate, this eternal ancient wisdom in very practical ways. So, of course, you know, we, there's tends to be a fascination with, mysticism and, esoteric stuff. But if it's if it can't be applied in a practical day to day basis, it's quite useless. So, the whole purpose of this institute is to disseminate that in a, in a very meaningful way.

Even what I'm saying with our Veda, it's, it's all really highly logical, very in quotes, scientific and, it most importantly, it's it's practical, applicable and results are seen, immediately. So it's I like to step out of the mystical realm, of these ancient teachings and bring them to the modern world. And that's the purpose of that institute. So if someone listening is as excited as I am and says, I'm frustrated or I don't feel optimal, I've been down many different consultations in Western medicine.

Is one path to, inquire and perhaps start to participate with the shop, the institute or how does one find it? And are you Vedic practitioner that, you know, can be trusted? Is there actually a foundation and institute a website? What are some of the pathways people can actually access as more. And if it's your own work, just shout it out. Yeah. So, one thing I will say is that, Yeah. Are you Veda? Because I said, remember how I said in the beginning it's eternal knowledge, as in it's knowledge that's applicable at all times.

Lifestyle, Herbs, and the Shabda Institute 30:48

So there isn't a set way of practicing our Veda. So there are practitioners who practice you know, in a very different way, there than other practitioners. So there is no standard way. So, you know, some will say, take the dosha quiz and do it according to that, you know, which of the seven types you fall into. And some, like me will say, doesn't matter. Everybody requires the same lifestyle to begin with. And then whatever's left over after that, we can go back and and work on those. So it really depends on where one is trained and what their specific approaches.

And, it's easy enough to find our Vedic practitioners. One resource is the Nama website, which is an American eye relic. You know, kind of, a repository of practitioners. And you can find one in your area. And, I do offer a, self-guided study, a course known as the Heart of Wellness. And that has to do with, lifestyle approaches, for, for heart health and actually overall wellness. So it's a self-study and that's available through my website. And, twice a year, we also do a facilitated heart of wellness.

It's called Heart of Wellness, the practice where some of my students actually facilitate the application of these lifestyle principles, this one starting in January and then another later in the year. So that's one way that I do that. And but the other is to just go through a traditional practitioner. Okay. I'm on your website as we're talking, and then it takes me to the shop, the institute, and there's a 25 page self-study guide. That's what you're referring to. Know that 25 pages for people who want to take any of my many, many courses.

But within that there is one course known as the Heart of Wellness self-study. And that's all that's required for people who are interested in working on, you know, this body mind approach and through lifestyle from an IRA Vedic perspective. Excellent. I just want to make sure your listeners will be able to find you. I see there's a heart, a wellness Facebook group. Wonderful by as we shut it down. I do want to at least also tell the audience, you're just one half of one of the most amazing teams on the planet.

I do want to at least recognize you're married to, one of the top prostate cancer researchers in the world, maybe the top, rule Chennai and MD, PhD. And I just love seeing pictures of you in 2022. In Sweden, when your husband accepted it. Perhaps it's called the Show Berg award. The show Berg prize. So, I don't know how the two of you, have dominated an IQ of about a thousand between two people. That can. And I think your daughters are probably following in that same, tradition, but congratulations on, you know, being part of just an incredible, journey.

And, contribution to the world in so many different ways. I mean, so many people with, prostate cancer are going to benefit from your husband's years of genomic research. So congrats on that. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I do want to say I was, kind of playing around a little looking at your curriculum vitae, which is so overwhelming. And I just want to shout out the most recent paper I read was what causes rapid plaque progression, which is a topic we've talked a lot about on the summit in various places, and something nobody wants to happen.

And you reported, with your coauthors, including doctor boot off, doctor man, Doctor Dan Berman, all friends of mine, that poor sugar control, poor glycemic control was the single most statistical relationship. And I just want to leave that message with everybody. You'll be listening to this soon after Valentine's Day. You may have had a few too many chocolate sweets. You know, be sure to grab what doctor Janine has emphasized. A steady set wellness lifestyle, you know, plan for life and then incorporate some of the other teachings we've had in the summit now to include the ancient and strong tradition of, are you medicine?

So thank you again. I just want to say that, I just want to say that the opening to the sweetness of life has nothing to do with sugar intake. And I love that you and, Doctor Kim Williams, who we had the pleasure to interview, and certainly a close colleague of yours in the imaging field, Cardiology, would agree, as one of his major platforms is, reducing added sugar, eliminating and sugar. But you can still have a very sweet life. All right. Yeah. Grab a kiwi or grab a papaya or something more natural.

Well, from my very, very, very open heart, thank you very much. Thank you. And hope to see you, face to face soon. But you've shared so much. Everybody's going to benefit and that would be the best place. Kavithamd.com for people to find. Yes okay. Thank you. God bless.