Beyond Stimulants: Holistic Health Strategies for Aging with ADHD

Podcast Intro and Community Invitation 0:00

Have you ever thought, is this just me? When struggling to stay organized, start tasks or manage time for those of us over 50. These challenges might not be just aging. They could be ADHD hiding in plain sight for decades. I'm Jamie Shapiro, host of Grandma Has ADHD, and I'm building a community where your experiences matter whether you're diagnosed, questioning, or simply curious. You're not alone. Our Facebook group is filled with vibrant, understanding people over 50 who share their stories, strategies, and yes, even their struggles with plenty of laughter along the way.

Ready to find your people? Join our growing grandma has ADHD Facebook community. Please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen, and share it with someone who might need to hear. They're not alone. Because ADHD doesn't have an age limit, and neither does understanding yourself better. Together, we're changing. The conversation about ADHD. After 50 can be part of the story. Hi and welcome to the Grandma Has ADHD podcast. I am always or triply excited when I get to introduce somebody that I actually know who has ADHD and also helps people with ADHD.

So I'm going to introduce Doctor Erica Oberg. She is a leading integrative medicine expert with over 20 years of experience helping people achieve optimal health and longevity. She blends cutting edge medical research and natural approaches to prevent reverse, and manage chronic disease with dual training in naturopathic medicine

Erica Oberg's ADHD Discovery Story 2:00

and biomedical research. Doctor Oberg has published over 30 peer reviewed papers and conducted NIH funded clinical trials. She was the founding medical director of Baxter University, California, and currently serves as Medical director of Marquee Medical and AI Driven Prevention and Longevity Platform, while maintaining an exclusive oceanview practice in La Hoya, California. A sought after international speaker at Wellness Retreats worldwide. Doctor Oberg specializes in personalized treatment plans using nutrition, bioidentical hormones, regenerative therapies, and advanced diagnostics.

When she's not guiding patients towards peak health, she embodies the lifestyle she teaches, staying active, sailing, and surrounding herself with joy. And I'm just going to say if that didn't read like an ADHD bio, I don't know what does. I got exhausted just reading it, so I'm so glad that I just get to introduce you and let you talk. Hi. Do you want to like Oberg? Erica. Erica is wonderful. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking time out of your very busy life and day to join our guests on this podcast.

Well thank you. I'm happy to be here, Jamie, and you're doing such great work getting the word out there and helping normalize something for people that often have been struggling their whole lives, and they didn't even know it. Yes. So before we get into how you help from a medical perspective, can you tell me a little bit about your ADHD back story? Like, yeah, sure. It's always kind of fascinating to look in the rearview mirror, right. And realized how things had been present for a long time, but they actually discovered that I had ADHD.

And I probably shouldn't say this as a doctor. When a friend gave me an Adderall and suggested that I try it because I was complaining that I needed to focus and do some writing, and she said, just try one. You might like it. And obviously we don't encourage people to take each other's medications, but it was shocked at how my brain filled different. It just felt better, calmer. Everything was clear. All that chatter was gone and I sat down and I got focused. And so I got super curious myself. I recognize another people, but I started just looking back and reflecting on just kind of my life.

When I was a kid in high school and in college, obviously, I did very well in school, went on to medical school, but I could never sit still in the classroom. I was always the person in the back of the room, leaving early, coming in late, working on a different project while I was in that class. And so just in retrospect, I realize how much of that was very classic ADHD behavior and how much things can calm down and help us be more productive when we have the right tools on board. So whether that's medication or any number of the natural things that we might talk about today, there's a lot of ways that people can be helped with ADHD.

But that's how I found it out myself. Kind of a funny thing. Well, no. It's interesting. And again, I do not talk about medicine. I am not a doctor. You are. But because a lot of our audience are really not going to be able to take medications because they're being treated for other things, really stay away from it. But I will say that I have heard that experience pretty commonly, that if you take an Adderall and it calms you down, that's a pretty good indication that you have ADHD. Not that it should forgo screening, but it just seems to be a common experience then.

I have also tried it myself, and what I learned is that I also was the student that was doing the homework. The class before it was due, so I wasn't really paying attention in class. But we tend to be bright, not to toot our own horns, but that's why I said your bio reads like someone with ADHD. Many people are quote unquote twice exceptional, so a lot of those gifted kids are also ADHD, and we're able to sort of function until we just can't. And then that's when it sort of comes up. But a lot of the people listening wouldn't have been diagnosed, because we are just really learning about ADHD and realizing that it's heritable and then it expands.

It's not just the hyperactive little boys. So definitely one of the things that I wanted to discuss with you, because I know hormones come to play with the rise in symptoms of ADHD. And also I want to talk about that, but I also, of course, want to hear what can we do too, with diet and exercise and from an integrative perspective. So a lot there. Yeah, there is a lot there. There definitely is. And the hormone piece is an interesting one because I think, as you know, women are approaching perimenopause, estrogen levels are starting to decline.

That also happens to coincide for biochemical reasons with when a lot of women first become aware that maybe they have ADHD,

Hormones, Perimenopause, and ADHD Symptoms 7:00

they've been able to hold it together, maybe better than previously. And you hit that menopause, perimenopause, estrogen levels are declining and some of the symptoms of the brain fog, the disorganization, mood symptoms, rage symptoms, all of those are just so much all those ADHD symptoms of disorganization just become so much worse during that perimenopausal period. And that's because estrogen levels are declining. So I want to ask you two things. One is I just recently read an article that said that women who run for periods like refer emotions leading up to periods or during a periods that I always really struggled with my mood disorder around my period, and that's more common with people with ADHD.

Do you know anything about that? Absolutely, yeah, it's pretty well documented in the research literature and it's that similar phenomenon. But say in like adolescent girls that maybe are just starting to cycle and they notice their ADHD symptoms and mood symptoms in general tend to get much worse, like right before the period and those first couple days of the period. And that's because estrogen levels are declining and estrogen actually modulates dopamine, right. And ADHD as a condition of dopamine imbalances in our brain.

And so when the estrogen drops, we don't have that modulating effect anymore. And so all of those symptoms get magnified. So that can happen right around the menstrual period. And then it starts happening a lot during perimenopause and menopause when estrogen levels are declining as a whole, not just at that time of the cycle. So what kind of woman who has ADHD expect as she is going from beginning menses into pregnancy, into minute like, is there anything that you can share with us about. Yeah, there's definitely some patterns across the life cycle.

And progesterone can play a role there as well. I think you have children don't you Jamie I do, yes. Yeah. So remember that sort of pregnancy bliss where you feel like you could actually tolerate kind of a lot like sitting on the couch and nursing a baby for hours on end. Right? Oh, progesterone can have kind of a modulating effect on some of those worsening symptoms. And so as women are going through their life cycle and different hormones are active at different times, we notice that interplay between mood and hormones quite a lot.

So usually pregnancy is kind of a better time. And breastfeeding for women in terms of that interplay between ADHD and mood and hormones. I mean, I talk to women about this all the time. It gets much worse, like in your 40s. And as you approach 50 and sort of that menopausal period. So I talk to an awful lot of women in my practice who are in their 40s, feel like everything should be going fantastic. Maybe their cycles aren't super irregular yet, or maybe they're just starting to get irregular, but they feel like they're just losing their mind.

They're overwhelmed, they're brain fog. They can't remember anything. They can't focus on anything. And that's a big piece of that interplay between mood and dopamine and estrogen levels. Sure. I will also note for me, the clumsiness has gotten really, really bad. Like I'm speeding through so much that I'm not carefully pausing. And so I'm constantly spilling things which I'm noticing is definitely increased. Sure. So let me ask you another question. Since I've got you, I am on hormone replacement.

It's the best thing ever. Question. Yes, I've heard two different things and you're a doctor. So I want to ask you. I've heard it. You shouldn't be on it for no more than five years. I was walking with a friend of mine yesterday who's 65. She's been on it for more than ten, and she said she's going to stay on it for the rest of her life. And I know it's making a difference in my life. Can you share with the audience what the current thought is on how long we can be on? Yeah, sure. It's evolving. It's changing. Right.

So the old recommendations that you should use the lowest dose possible for the shortest amount time possible. That recommendation came in the early 2000 out of flood research. There was this Women's Health Initiative study. They published it before they reran the analysis and double checked everything. And that effectively stopped hormone replacement therapy for women for quite some time. And so we're really just now I mean, there's lots of research in Europe. That study didn't really get the splash there.

And we also have bioidentical hormone options, right. Not the conjugated equine estrogen that were used back then, but bioidentical estradiol and all. So there's a big difference. But I think we also have different expectations for ourselves as women of middle age. Right. If you think about sort of evolutionarily, by the time you hit 50, maybe you had 5 or 10 years left of your life. Woman just didn't live to that time period. They certainly weren't running companies and doing all of the many things that we do as middle aged women these days.

So to do that, often, we're kind of at the top of our careers around age 50. Right? And so to be wanting to continue to perform at your optimal level, feel your best, not feel like a grandmother, perhaps just yet. Right. And then I think hormones are very appropriate, because if women do go off them at whatever point they do, that aging process is going to pick up right where it left off, right? Then you're going to have the hot flashes that declines in your bone health, the increased risks of cardiovascular health, the increased risk of dementia, all of those things that hormones protect us from.

Of course, that protection stops as soon as we stop taking them. So does that mean that at this point we can continue to take them throughout our life to man or. Yeah, have women in their 80s who are on hormone replacement therapy to hear it. So I would love for you to just explain what the difference is between bioidentical, because I don't know that everybody understands that term. So that would be helpful too. I don't know who's listening. This might be there for closure. That's a very good question. Yeah.

And the devil is definitely in the details on this. Her bodies make hormones that we have three estrogens actually estradiol estradiol and estrogen. Men make the stuff to just lower amounts. We have other hormones like testosterone, progesterone, cortisol or stress hormone. So most people have heard of perhaps at least some of those. So those are all ones that our body makes. And we have the ability to pharmacies can make those exact same chemical compounds. So it looks exactly like what's in your body and their chemical structure is exactly the same.

And so, not surprisingly, our bodies recognize those bioidentical hormones more easily and they can be used more efficiently. Now there are other hormone products out there. Birth control pills, right. Most women are familiar with those. Those are not bioidentical. And it is an old preparation that used to be used still is unfortunately for menopause. And it literally is a conjugated equine estrogen. So they collect the estrogens that are excreted by horses in urine. And it gets processed and it gets turned into a pill for women.

And as you might imagine, that estrogen looks nothing like a human woman's estrogen. And it has to be broken down and metabolized, and you get all sorts of yucky byproducts that the liver has to deal with. And so in my practice, we never use anything but bioidentical hormones. Right. And I believe it was premature. And that was responsible for the study that came out that made everybody stop. You're she's nodding her head.

Bioidentical Hormones and HRT Safety 15:00

That was and I think that they did it on women that were even like more than ten years post-menopausal. And it was such a badly done study. And I'm just a layperson and, you know, this. And then that was why a lot of women are still afraid to go on bioidentical hormone replacement. HRT is what they call it HRT therapy. So I'm really glad that you're dispelling that. I'm personally glad to hear that. I don't have to get off because I had pain everywhere. I had frozen shoulder. I had no idea that it was all related to perimenopause.

No one told me. And going to the doctor, he sends me to a specialist. I was seeing somebody else for pain in my knee. It's all gone now and I wish I'd been in a better job of getting that word out. Yeah, but pain can be huge. Yeah. For sure. Okay, so we're going to take a break. But when we come back I would love to hear your advice for our audience of people that are 50 and over, mainly women. But we do not discriminate. And you don't have to be a grandma or a woman to listen. But who knows, maybe you're listening for a partner, but what would be the advice that you would give people who are struggling with both ADHD and just the normal wear and tear of aging?

So we're going to take a quick break and come right. Are you tired of feeling like you can't get it together, struggling with clutter that overwhelms you despite your best efforts? Wondering why organization feels impossible while others make it look so easy? You are not alone and it's not your fault. Hi, I'm Jamie Shapiro, host of the Grandma has ADHD podcast, and I understand exactly what you're going through. I can buy my years of hands on work as founder of Silver Linings, Transitions and Move Management and Home Organizing company together with ADHD Coach Training and help adults 50 and over connect the dots between ADHD and lifelong struggles.

Whether you are downsizing, decluttering, or simply trying to create systems that work for your ADHD brain. I provide virtual and in-person coaching for those in the San Diego area. Together, we will develop practical strategies that honor how your brain actually works, not how you think it should work. Ready to trade shame for understanding? Visit. Grandma has adhd.com or call to schedule a discovery session at (760) 607-7377. Because it's never too late to finally make sense of your story. Ever wondered why helping a loved one declutter feels like speaking different languages?

I did, especially with my mom. It wasn't until I founded Silver Linings Transitions, helping San Diego seniors organize and move for over a decade that I discovered why we all experienced clutter differently. And for those of us with ADHD, it's a whole other world. If you are listening in the San Diego area and feeling stuck with moving paperwork, photos, or home organization, our team at Silver Linings Transitions gets it. We understand ADHD is unique challenges and we won't just help you get organized.

We'll create sustainable systems that finally stick. Schedule a consultation with our team today at (760) 522-1624. That's (760) 522-1624. Or find us at Silver Linings transitions.com. And we are back with doctor Erica Oberg. She is an integrative medicine doctor in the San Diego area. So before we went to break, I wanted to know if you, Erica, could share some advice and some tips for the 50 and over population who are tuning into this podcast. And by the way, if you are tuning in. Thank you. I hope that you will share it with your friends and your family and join us on the grandma has ADHD Facebook page as well as the grandma has ADHD website.

Don't want to keep plugging that, but can you share what? What do you think would help people who are listening? I think there's a lot of places where people can start to help themselves or get more information to really dial in their individual strategy for ADHD. Let's talk about mindfulness as an example. Right. So mindfulness meditation can be tremendously useful for people with ADHD. But ironically it's one of the hardest things for somebody with ADHD to do. Imagine sitting down for a silent meditation.

But there are many other ways that we can practice mindfulness in ways that I think are maybe a little bit more natural for an ADHD personality. And the one that comes to that's usually most accessible are more moving meditations, something like tai chi or sometimes a yoga class. But those qigong, those ancient Chinese moving meditations can be very, very useful for people with ADHD because you're getting the benefits of mindfulness, but you're moving, so it's entertaining the body at the same time.

I had also learned that yoga is really actually very good for an ADHD brain in the way that the balancing. Yeah, absolutely. Those are such good practices, but it's working because it's strengthening. Any mindfulness activity, any type of meditative activity is strengthening our ability to connect with our prefrontal cortex, right. The thinking part of our brain. And one of the things that's often happening in ADHD, because it's a dopamine related condition as we as the impulse control, right?

Practical ADHD Support: Mindfulness, Sleep, and Lifestyle 21:00

So the motivation, the reward of dopamine, but the sort of the reactive impulsiveness side of dopamine makes daily functioning a little bit challenging. And so any type of this meditative practice that's going to help us up regulate the thinking part, the part that can like say, okay, don't open that other window on your browser, that part that's going to help you with a little bit of impulse control. That can be a really useful tool for people from the mindfulness perspective. Sure. I know diet and exercise and sleep are really important.

Can you give us some tips with that? Yeah for sure. Getting a good night's sleep is absolutely critical. And while we're asleep, that's when we are releasing growth hormone. And that's going to be helping us with all of the repair and the rejuvenation. And another very important thing that's happening during sleep is our brain detox. We have this system called the lymphatic system that's in our brain that while we're asleep, we're cleaning out the junk, we're filing away the old messages, we're deleting things, but we're also detoxifying out things like excess dopamine.

And so if we're not getting good quality sleep, some good deep sleep, that housekeeping activity just isn't happening. And that makes everything worse. That level of neural inflammation just exacerbates all of our symptoms and ultimately shows up as dementia or a cognitive decline over many, many years. Not that people with ADHD are necessarily at any higher risk for neuroinflammation than other people who aren't sleeping. But I think people with ADHD probably feel it a little bit more when they are getting good quality sleep, right?

That begs a great question, but I have heard that there isn't a direct correlation between ADHD and dementia, that it's more the lifestyle choices like not getting proper sleep, like not having proper diet and exercise, like addiction and smoking and that kind of thing. But I'm going to go back and stop swirling on you. I have heard that in terms of sleep, that it isn't just the amount of hours, but there's also like a time that you should be asleep for optimum circadian rhythms. Is that true? I think it's going to vary a little bit for everybody, but most of the research does suggest there are those occasional people who think that they can get away on six hours of sleep at night, but you really can't.

Most people really do need eight hours of sleep. And some of those the technologies that are available to help track our sleep, like the Aura rings or our Apple Watches, those can be a trade off because you don't necessarily want devices in the bedroom, but those can be really insightful as you're starting to make some lifestyle changes so that you are getting better quality sleep. And one of the things that I usually recommend at the beginning with people that are having trouble sleeping, of course, after dark bedrooms, quiet to all of the sort of sleep hygiene things.

But the supplement magnesium can be particularly important and impactful for sleep, and it's a very mild, easy thing that is appropriate for almost everybody to improve the quality of their sleep. That's super helpful. So I want to take it back to you and your practice. So somebody comes to you and maybe they're looking for not the conventional. This is the way Western does it. But I want to blend in a little eastern, which is, I guess, what integrative medicine is. Am I correct about that blending in the eastern?

In the Western, I call it an all tools in the toolbox approach. So we're paying attention to lifestyle. We're paying attention to your personal preferences. We're using dietary supplements. We're using herbs using medication. We're using referrals to acupuncturists. All of those tools can be appropriate depending on the person. So when people start with me, it always starts off with getting to know that person. And so my first appointments are 90 minutes. So I really want to be able to take time to know the whole you, not just the frozen shoulder or the complaint that made you schedule the appointment, but the whole person.

And then as we're looking at the whole person, we can really start to figure out what the underlying causes essentially of what's going on. So often people bring lab tests have been run by other doctors. A very common scenario is the person who said, like, I feel awful. I've seen several doctors. They all tell me my numbers look great, but why don't I feel great? So that can be a very common scenario. And sometimes integrative medicine doctors read those numbers a little bit differently, like, great, your numbers look good, you're not dying, but they might be suboptimal.

Or maybe those things haven't even been investigated. So specific. Let's mental health and ADHD. Often some of the deep work that we do is doing tests and listening to diets to look for nutritional deficiencies and brain imbalances, where you might need more of different amino acid precursors. So those are some of the places that we often start with. Helping people with a workout workup is to really understand what is going on in your brain and what other variables are there. Yeah, I could tell you some interesting things about a common genetic variant that plays a pretty big role in ADHD.

So there are two very common genes called the Comt gene and the MT gene. And they control processes that we call methylation. And that's basically how we're going to activate a lot of our neurotransmitters, like dopamine being the important one for today's conversation. So a Comt mutation I often think about it like imagine you have a calendar in your brain that's holding your dopamine in a bowl with lots of holes in it, and you could have a really tight mesh calendar where very little falls through.

Or you could have really big open holes and a lot is falling through. So the team controls basically the size how quickly we process dopamine. And so if you are a slow processor, you're going to have a really high level of dopamine building up. And that's going to give you the anxiety, the impulsivity. Some of the inattention that goes along with that. If you have a really fast loss of guilt, the mean you're going to have low motivation, lethargy, etc., but they also have positive sides to them.

If you have a lot of dopamine, you might have some anxiety, but you're also probably going to be better. That's when you're going to function at your best and be very task oriented and very specific. People that lose a lot, they probably are a little bit calmer, but they're also prone to depression. And so this is a long way to get to the point of the story. But if you know that genetic mutation in yourself,

Integrative Medicine, Genetics, and Personalized Care 28:00

which way you are, then we can plan for it. In the case of this gene, we can plan for it with making sure we supplement with the right vitamins and minerals that are going to regulate that activity. So it normalizes that. So it's not too fast or too slow. It's normal. Wow. So I didn't even know that was an option. So I'm so glad you did share that. And can somebody see you if they are not in San Diego. Yeah you I'm licensed in California and Washington and Arizona and Colorado. So we do telehealth with people in all of those states.

And my health coach works with people in all states. That's great. So I want to make sure that we let people know how they can find you. And we're not done with the conversation, but I definitely make sure we get that in there. How can they find you? Erica a good place to start is with my website, which is just Doctor Erica Obagi. Com Dr. Erica Overcome and one thing that is probably interesting to your audience there is our brain health program. So we have a 90 day program for people that are really interested in sort of diving into their brain health for the first time, with some testing and some very individualized recommendations.

That includes a lot of the stuff that we're talking about dialing in the diet, dialing in the fitness, dialing in the sleep, but also some coaching and some supervision around playing with a couple different supplements, perhaps, and kind of working from that perspective to help people really understand their brains and how to optimize. That's amazing. I want to make sure that anybody who is not watching this on YouTube and can't see the spelling that they know that Doctor Erica Oberg is Erica Oberg.

So we wanted to make sure that I put that in there, that I'm not always good with the details, but this is important. I'm even excited in this conversation. So I want to go back to the ADHD conversation because, you know, like to balance it first, as do you see it in your own family and in your upbringing. Can you see where ADHD maybe played a role in your parents, or how you might have in parent? It? I would say probably less on that front, but it has shown up in my niece and just watching her.

She's 16 as a very young girl, just spacing out and attentiveness, forgetting to why she went upstairs to get her socks and coming back down without the socks. Watching that transformation, she was kind of not a great student early on before she was diagnosed. And then once she was diagnosed, just watching her thrive and blossom and organize her life and perform really well in school and just have a lot more confidence, it's been really positive to see the positive impact an accurate diagnosis has made in her.

Sure. So I'm going to totally TMI on you and do an ADHD thing, but the best internet I have in my house is in my 17 year old daughter's bedroom, who was just diagnosed with ADHD, and I basically create that zoom zone for any of you who are watching, I'm going to pan over to what I had. What now is right. That is ADHD showing up. That's probably what you would have seen in my room growing up. So then another question that I like to ask people is if there is a button and you could turn off your ADHD and you could not have it, would you have opted to push that button?

Probably not. I mean, I do think it helps me be a high performer, get a lot of things done. It definitely goes along with creativity, that ability to free, associate and come up with new creative ideas. I think that that's dopamine dependent. So that's definitely an advantage. And I think some other important lifestyle skills, like adequate sleep and taking magnesium and making sure that I'm not underfed and hypoglycemic, all of those things do help with ADHD, but they're going to help with so many other things.

So I think learning the coping skills that people need to be really successful with ADHD, those benefits are spilling out into healthy benefits in all dimensions of their life. Right? That's excellent advice. Okay, so I always especially when you have ADHD now I don't know how you are, but like I wish I had said that that comes up from you. And so anything that I didn't ask or you want to share because I want to make sure that we are whole and complete when we complete this call. And I want to personally thank you, like I learned so much myself.

And I imagine this can be hugely beneficial to our audience. Well, I'm so glad that you've learned a lot from this. Definitely. And that's what I love. I love helping people learn to understand their own health in their own bodies. And it's a very empowering place, right? When you'll understand what's going on and what's leading you to think the way you are, feel the way you are, and then once you know what's going on, then you can be empowered to make those decisions, whether that's getting the appropriate medical care to get medications or treatments or learning how to start practicing Taichi like, once you know what's going on and an underlying cause, then that and I think it's very empowering to be able to know what you can do about it is my Angelo says, when you know better, you do better.

And I love that quote. It's a beautiful quote. I love that one. Yeah. So any other parting words for us doctor Erica Oubre I would just add maybe a few other things that people might want to play with themselves. On the natural products front, there can be some very safe and nice herbs with good research support that can help people that don't want to consider medication. And my two favorites are a plant called a Copa B, a C, Opa, and there's lots of research studies on it improving cognitive function and attention.

So that's one of my favorite ones. And then ashwagandha is another favorite herb that can be really helpful

Finding Dr. Oberg and Closing Advice 34:00

for calming things down, just kind of helping you have calmer, steadier energy as opposed to hectic energy. So those are two things you can readily find those in Whole Foods or Trader Joe's, or any place that carries vitamins and supplements, and they're safe. So most people can experiment with those. That's awesome. Well thank you. That's amazing. I'm gonna have to look into those myself. Any things that you need to be aware of? Like any conditions, if you have this, you shouldn't take this. Or if you're on this medication, you should. Yeah, definitely.

Thank you for that reminder. Anybody who's on psychiatric medications already should definitely get a second opinion before they start combining natural products and prescription products in the same space. So you definitely don't want to be doubling up on the two things that are acting on your brain and potentially different ways, without having some professional advice on whether that's the right thing to do or not. Well, good. I am glad that I asked that question then. Well, again, thank you so much.

Thank you to everyone who listened. If you want to find or speak with Doctor Erica Oberg, you can find her at Dr. Erica Oberg Obagi. Com I'm guessing correct, correct.com on the.com on your own name and the doctor, Erica Oberg. Gqom. Exactly. I will thank you for listening again. If you liked this, please share it. Subscribe to a comment. That is how we are growing this audience. And most importantly, we are reducing the stigma around ADHD. And that is why I am so glad when I have people like Doctor Erica Oberg, who as ADHD is openly saying I have ADHD and realizing you can be an amazingly bright person who contributes to the world and have ADHD, and we definitely need to keep getting that message out there.

Thank you so much. Thank you Jamie. The opinions expressed on grandma Has ADHD podcast are those of our guests and hosts, and are intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. This podcast does not provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The content discussed in this episode is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or mental health concern.

Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor or emergency services immediately. The host, guests and producers of grandma's ADHD do not assume any liability for the content of this podcast. Listen at your own discretion.