Boost Your Health With Nutritarian Diet

Joel Fuhrman, MD

Great. Having a lot of fun.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Thank you. Let’s dive right in because you are a wealth of knowledge, and I can’t wait for people to learn from you. First of all, which whole plant-based foods have been scientifically proven to help lower blood pressure? What makes them effective?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

It’s the totality of how the body works; in other words, there’s a combination of the full complement of phytochemicals and antioxidants and fibers and plants, which all work together but also support the growth of healthy bacteria in the gut. More gram-positives thicken the biofilm, which covers the villi in the small intestines and then slows the absorption of glucose and caloric entry into the blood. I’m saying it’s the caloric rush that has pro-inflammatory effects; putting so many calories into the bloodstream, particularly from oil and sugar and salt and white flour, of course, is a sugar equivalent. It floods the body with calories that you could not get in a natural state. I don’t consider sugar, honey, maple syrup, or white flour.

I consider them drugs—natural drugs that affect the brain and cause inflammation. because not only do fruits and vegetables enter the bloodstream slowly, but they also favor the growth of bacteria that thicken the biofilm that lowers the entry. Even when you eat something that’s relatively moderately glycemic, like a mango, the absorption of that glucose is also slowed because you’re regularly consuming green vegetables, onions, mushrooms berries, and things like that. But so it’s the total anti-inflammatory effects of what you’re eating, what’s in those foods, and also salt. That’s why it’s so high in the American diet. People don’t recognize salt as a pro-inflammatory substance. It’s an irritant to the endothelial lining of blood vessels. It leads to more microvascular injuries. Over decades of excess salt use, weakens the lining of the blood vessels, making them predisposed to more, you could say, aneurysms or hemorrhagic strokes from years and years of excessive salt intake. It’s not that salt is not only dangerous because it raises your blood pressure; it also weakens the blood vessels themselves, making them more susceptible to damage from the blood pressure that it causes.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Go ahead. 

Joel Fuhrman, MD

But there are also specific bioflavonoids and pro-anthracite in plant foods that also have a natural blood pressure-lowering effect. For example, garlic has very powerful blood pressure levels, which have a concentrated effect. But if you cook the garlic, it’s still a great flavoring, but you’re not going to get much blood pressure and cholesterol-lowering effects from garlic. But if you think raw garlic is too strong to be chewed on multiple times in a day if you partially cook the garlic, you get rid of its bitterness, but you don’t overcook it. It can be used as a traditional therapeutic adjunct to have a clove of garlic or to close it while the garlic is cooked enough so it’s not bitter or biting, but not cooked so much that it loses its therapeutic effect.

We use other foods liberally that also lower blood pressure, such as eggplant in a diet. I’ll take a salad, by the way, the skin of the eggplant is also very good for you. If you water cook it like you cook it in a soup, then chop the eggplant and leave the skin on. If you’re making a stew with beans in the crockpot, cut up the eggplant and leave the skin on because you’re not going to cook. But if you’re going to bake it in the oven at 330 for 45 minutes, then the skin gets crinkled and a little damaged. Then we would scoop it out, remove the skin, and throw it away because, with dry cooking, you get more damage to the food on the outside. But with wet cooking, you don’t. That’s why we wouldn’t use the eggplant skin. However, utilizing cooked eggplant as part of the meal is also effective at lowering blood pressure and blood glucose. The benefit has beneficial effects.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

I’m curious; there’s been a little discussion around fructose and the difficulty of causing harm, for example, fatty liver and different things. then people will extrapolate that to say fruit must be bad. Could you just highlight a little bit of the differences between high-fructose corn syrup products and whole-food fruits with fructose in them as well?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

It’s good. People get a vivid picture of what we’re talking about here because when we’re eating fruit, the sugar, fructose, and glucose are intracellular inside the cell wall. It’s bound to fiber. not only have when you chew it, obviously you’re chewing it, and it’s because you’re chewing it and mixing it with fiber. It not only goes into the bloodstream more slowly, but it also creates activity in the bacteria that work in the gut and feed off the sugar and grow off that fructose that’s bound to fiber.

You get more activation. All the sugar that enters the bloodstream doesn’t come in as much, and it comes in at a much slower rate. For example, berries are sweet, but they have so many flavonoids that they have anti-diabetic effects, particularly blackberries and wild blueberries because they have so much that black small skin has so much anthracite and excitons in them. But yes. But still, you can get too much fructose from fruit if you juice it, let’s say by removing some of the fiber. You’re not getting the bacterial benefit. You’re not chewing it with and mixing it with saliva and with the fiber and saliva. The fruit mix affects the biochemistry of how it’s absorbed. Also, we don’t recommend people be on a fruitarian diet where 80–90% of their diet is mostly fruit because, number one, the diet is too low in protein.

Number two, their level of fructose is relatively high compared to what they would include in more vegetables, beans, and nuts. It’s that as we age, as we go from 60 to 70 to 80 to 90, particularly as we go from 70 to 90, our ability to absorb protein goes down, and we can weaken our immunity when our diet is too low in protein, and that’s where the fruitarian diet gets into trouble. For the fruit-bearing guy, it could have been adequate protein because they were eating ten, or 20%, of nuts, avocados, vegetables, and salads. When they started keeping that high level of fruit as they passed the age of 70 when the protein viability goes down, now they can have their IGF going to low their immune system, dropping to function, dropping too low, and more susceptibility to fungal infections or pneumonia, and infectious related causes of death and loss of strength and vitality later years, because their diet doesn’t have enough of the high protein plant foods and the high protein plant foods, are the intact plant foods that are not fruit are vegetables, intact-grains, nuts, seeds, beans, and legumes. Those are the categories that give us the most protein, not fruit. The fruit-heavy diet isn’t going to give us protein adequacy as we age, but it may be okay when we’re younger.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

As far as protein intake, how much do you recommend for different ages as we get older?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

I don’t recommend different proteins for different ages. I recommend the same diets where all the age is because of the diet. That’s not fruit-heavy. That contains fruit. But it contains at least 75% of non-fruit categories. It contains nuts, seeds, beans, vegetables, and whole grains. It’s better for toddlers and children than for people when they’re growing. then in middle age, it’s better for building bone mass muscle mass, and brain mass, which then suits us to do better when we’re in our elderly years because it’s hard to build bone and muscle over the age of 70 or 80 years old. It’s the middle of the year to have that protein adequacy where we’re going to put more bone and muscle on.

But theoretically, it’s still possible for a person to be healthy and build adequate mass. I’m not recommending that. But it’s still okay to lower the protein in the diet. Let’s say once you’ve fully grown from, let’s say, 25 to 45 if you wanted to lower your protein intake when you’re at the highest amount of tissue growth potential, and then your protein intake could be lower, you could have more fruit in your diet. But as you go into your fifties and sixties and later, you probably should not be on a fruit-centered diet. You could still have five pieces of fruit a day or two pieces of fruit after every meal. But you’re not going to be eating all fruit with a little bit of salad and eating a whole fruit diet. Some plant-based advocates advocate extremes. Some people say to take all the fat out and don’t eat nuts. Other people say to take all the fruit out. Other people say, think, and eat only fruit. You have these, and it’s better not to be extreme but to get a good variety of plant foods.

That means you’re getting a good amount of protein. I just analyzed the amount, and it was amazing because I analyzed a study coming out of England that showed that vegans had a higher hip fracture rate and more osteoporosis. I analyzed the diet they were eating. They were getting about 10% of their calories from protein and about 500–450 milligrams of calcium in their diet compared to the meat eaters. Milk drinkers were getting about 800 milligrams of calcium, double the calcium, and about 16 to 18% of calories from protein, as were people eating meat in eggs and dairy. I analyzed the new criterion and saw where it fit. It came out with more calcium than the meat-based diet, and it came out with more protein than the meat-based diet.

Instead of being like 16 to 18%, it was like 17 to 19%. It provided just as much protein as the people eating meat because the people eating meat were still eating oil, sugar, and other junk food. And when you are not nutritarian and not eating the empty protein and empty nutrient foods, so everything has calcium and protein in it. What I’m saying is that if you put 400 calories of oil in your diet with three and a half tablespoons of oil a day instead of two ounces of nuts, you just took, ten grams of protein right off the plate because we used oil instead of nuts and seeds.

then if you put sugar and honey to get another couple of hundred calories in a piece of white bread or croissants, a bagel bun, or a pizza, you just take in a whole bunch of calories, then you move another times ten grams of protein off your plate. They still had meat and eggs, but it didn’t make up for all the things, like all the processed foods and all the oils, that were pulling protein off their plate by diluting the protein concentration by using processed foods in their diet. On a nutritarian type of diet, we get a lot of protein and a lot of calcium.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Can you explain the nutrition diet and what exactly that is?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

It’s a diet that’s not grain-based or fruit-based, but it’s vegetable-based. But we’re paying attention to all the different types of foods in the plant-based kingdom, particularly the ones that show the strongest effects on preventing cancer and extending human longevity, which are the g bombs, which stand for GBOMBS screens. Beans, onions. Mushrooms, berries, and seeds. We’re using seeds and nuts. We’re using multiple types of beans. We’re using multiple types of vegetables, ringing vegetables, cooked and raw, and we’re getting fruit and some whole grain intact whole grain, and using seeds liberally, like flax seeds, chia seeds, hemp seeds, and wheat seeds, with breakfast. It’s a very plant-rich, nutrient-dense diet with lots of variety in the diet, particularly paying attention to having a large raw salad every day, the big set with onions, and having soup with mushrooms and cooked onions and beans in it.

We’re trying to get the full complement of plant foods because it seems that this full variety of these natural foods works synergistically to support our immune system to a higher level of function, to support our bacteria in the gut to a higher level of function and protection, and to slow the aging process. When you have a meal that mixes some beans with some green vegetables with some nothing seed, the combination slows gastric emptying and makes you feel more satiated from that meal, so you’re more satisfied and have fewer calories. The other thing about being nutrient-dense, nutrient-adequate, and filling all the little non-optimal holes in the diet is that you satisfy the lower amounts of nutrients with lower amounts of calories, so you’re less likely to be driven biologically to overeat food.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Getting to the vegetable piece of that, can you discuss the role of nitrate-rich vegetables like beets and leafy greens in promoting vascular health and improving hypertension?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

Yes, there’s a benefit. That’s one benefit of chewing over blending and making a smoothie. Because when you chew vegetables, beets, and also green vegetables and leafy green vegetables, you not only break open the enzymes in the cell wall, because obviously, we’re instructing people to chew to a liquid and to chew much better than you think you should try to keep it in your mouth longer. You feel like you want to swallow it. Don’t swallow it; keep chewing. But there’s also this benefit. You produce more nitric oxide, which has anti-oxidation and vasodilation effects, naturally relaxing your blood vessels and protecting you against aging. You get more of those effects when you mix the food products with more of the saliva and the bacteria between the teeth.

When you eat a healthy diet, you produce a healthier digestive tract flora. The flora in the mouth is healthier as well. The flora in the mouth interacts with the enzymes and nutrients in the food to create more nitric oxide. It’s better to chew it than to just put it in a blender, let’s say. We’re asking people to have a big salad and put the scallion, the onions, the shredded beets, the green vegetables, and the arugula in it and chew it well. That’s what we do here at our retreat. We instruct people and keep reminding them. I remind myself because I tend to chew too fast and do not chew well, which I’m thinking of I chop the salad with one of those roller choppers and I put it in my serving bowl to eat it. Then I think they’re chewing it well before I allow myself to swallow it, to enhance those beneficial effects.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

I’m sure there’s some other mindful component to that as well, making you sit down and be mindful of your eating, which slows you down. You get satiated. It’s time for the body to digest.

Joel Fuhrman, MD

I’ve been trying lately to be mindful of those people asking me about the value of organic gardening and also mindful of the people who grew the food and picked it for us. Look at the people that work to pick those little wild blueberries and their exposure to chemicals and pesticides working on the farms, because that’s the highest amount of lymphoma and leukemia among people who work with these chemicals on the farms. We have to be so supportive of organic agriculture, even though it may cost us more if it’s tough for some people to afford it. As we build and support the organic food movement, we’ll have more farms reverting to organic farming. As there are more customers for it, they can make more money, and they can hire workers and protect them so their workers don’t have to work with chemicals. We’re appreciative and grateful for the people who helped us form the food to make this wonderful, miraculous, healing, and beautiful food, but we also try to care about those people’s health as well.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

With everybody, you’re not only helping your health, but you’re also committing to and promoting the health of those who brought the food to you.

Joel Fuhrman, MD

You’re supporting them with your dollar. When you’re eating organically, you’re supporting those farmers who grow organically and those workers who work on organic farms, hopefully spreading the movement. More people have that opportunity.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

You’re voting with your dollar at work. Another good question. There’s a lot of buzz around, like omega-3 and heart health. How does someone on a plant-based diet ensure that they’re getting enough?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

That’s an important conversation for me because my entry into the plant-based world was early in life when I was a youngster, about ten years old, through the American Natural Hygiene Society. My mentor and the person I respected and admired was Herbert Shelton, who wrote all these books. I was amazed at how prolific he was. But, of course, he died young of Parkinson’s disease. He died around age 77 from Parkinson’s disease. However, many of the leaders in these natural vegan movements had neurologic diseases. I was that, and even though a lot of these people were my mentors I admired them. When I became a physician, they became elderly people with medical conditions that I took care of as a doctor. I took care of many of the leaders and the people who were involved in the early entry of the vegan plant-based movement who were naturalists and not eating junk food, vegan diets, and healthy diets of all-natural foods. So I found in my practice many of these people, like Herbert Shelton, who died of Parkinson’s, and Kiki Sidhu, who got Parkinson’s.

The leaders of the natural organic movement in America had Parkinson’s and were vegans. Dr. Vitrano got dementia, and we couldn’t name all these leaders and people who used to be on the board of directors with me. But because I became a physician, a younger physician when they became older, I had the opportunity to take their blood tests and evaluate them as they were developing more neurologic problems, and I found that the omega-3 levels were slow and sometimes even undetectable. Then we know from science now that lower levels of omega-3 produce more inflammation in the body and expose you to more damage to the brain from chemicals that can cause Parkinson’s and, of course, shrink the brain and lead to cognitive impairment. At this point in human history, we have corroboration from 15 separate studies that show the same thing: low levels of the omega-3 index through decades of life are linked to smaller brains, making them more susceptible to neurologic deficits in later life. The problem with that is that while we’re finding omega, we can control our omega-3 index, but we can’t control it totally through the consumption of flaxseeds and chia seeds or because some people just don’t convert. It’s more genetically determined; even with dietary gymnastics, many people don’t convert enough; some people do. Some vegans can make enough. We can determine that with a blood test. But even with the most perfect diet for animals and the highest consumption, a lot of people still don’t make sufficient amounts of omega-3. We’ve got to be very careful about that. But we have plant-based omega-3 DHEA, which an EPA could take to modify your level. I’m suggesting that the level should be above six, between six and eight.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

That’s a blood test you get, just like at Quest or LabCorp.

Joel Fuhrman, MD

Yes, it’s a blood test. You get at many labs, which Quest calls an omega check or omega quant. We have the omega quant available. You can self-test yourself. But my doctor from Endocannabinoid Ricard, if your doctor won’t do it, there are two other caveats here. As one is taking a high dose of fish oil, it also has negative effects. I wrote in my book, The End of Heart Disease, that omega-3 deficiency is going to increase the risk of atrial fibrillation, but high-dose fish oil can also increase the risk of tribulation. If some people are saying, Take non-industrial, or Take a lot, then it’s got to be that sweet spot to take enough, but not too much.

Like any nutrient, too much vitamin D is dangerous, and too much iodine is dangerous. You can’t take too much. The other thing is that we used to think that, or at least I used to think that, I’d have a few clams or oysters, and that’d bring me up little sardines because they’re smaller fish that maybe aren’t as contaminated as salmon. I could do it naturally that way. But now to think about it, a few things have happened: not only the thousands of tons of plastic we dump in the ocean every hour, but now these smaller fish, including sardines, have plastic lining their digestive tract. smaller fish. You didn’t take the Total Digest tracker. We’re exposing ourselves to more plastic particles, which are more of a cancer risk and an endocrine disruptor than eating larger fish, which are more chemically contaminated with PCBs and toxic metals. then there’s a higher incidence of ALS, clusters of ALS around lakes where people eat fish, and clusters of Parkinson’s dementia syndrome or water with coastal waterways where they grow bivalves and shellfish with people eating clams, oysters, mussels, and scallops, a bivalve, are those foods that live on the bottom: clams, oysters, mussels, and scallops.

They have the highest concentration of BMAA, including lobster and crab. Shellfish could have 30 to 50 times as much BMAA as deep-sea fish because the BMAA builds up from agricultural runoff and farming activities, which create more algae overgrowth and cyanobacteria that live on the algae that contaminate the waterways. That’s why I’m saying to people, Let’s not rely on seafood for that extra omega-3 that may have been in human history. A little bit of animal product, a little bit of salamander frogs, snake fish, seafood, and oysters could have been enough. But now we’re not relying on those natural things. We’re trying to get it from a vegan source because we don’t want to use seafood. It’s not a clean source. That itself is a risky source.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

How much do you recommend taking daily in supplement form, or is there something more specific?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

Yes, in supplement form. The one that I sell comes in glass bottles because we keep it refrigerated so it stays fresh. But we also have it in a dropper so people can adjust their dose according to their blood test. They can take less if they need less, and more if they need more. Most people do need around 250, but some people need 300 or 400 to keep their levels up. and some people need less. But I’d say 200, 250 is probably where most of us can get our level at least above five, but preferably above six.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

Especially if they’re eating ALA-rich foods.

Joel Fuhrman, MD

That’s right. I do recommend half of the nut in the seat intake ALA-rich. In other words, if the recipe calls for a cashew cream sauce or a cashew salad dressing, take half the cashews out of the recipe and use the other half hemp seeds. Half of your intake should be from flax seed, chia seed, hemp seed, which can be, and walnuts. Those are the four you could have now; the other half could be pistachios and almonds, pecans and cashews, and Brazil nuts. But that should only be about half. That way, we keep a better ALA ratio because the risk factor here from taking nuts and seeds out of the diet is ALA deficiency, which also increases the risk of an irregular heartbeat and atrial fibrillation. People who think they’re helping their hearts by moving nuts and seeds are not sufficiently supplying enough fat, particularly for the heart, which has an anti-inflammatory soothing effect on the myocardium and the irritability of the heart muscle as it ages.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

We’re going to pause our conversation just for a moment, but I want to thank everyone who’s been watching us today, and thank you for joining us. and I hope you found our conversation insightful and engaging. But if you’re a summit purchaser, stay right here, because we’re about to dive even deeper into this lovely conversation. If you’re not, you can click on the button below or to the side to get access to the rest of the conversation. 

If you are watching this, thank you for being a valuable member of our community, and let’s continue this conversation with Dr. Fuhrman. Determine when you just spoke to the microbiome and its importance. Can you describe a little bit more about the dietary fiber that’s found in plant-based diets and why that’s helpful in hypertension in maybe describing new people here, starch versus non-starch? What are those different types of fiber? What do they all mean exactly?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

What it means is that there are more hypoglycemic plant-based foods, and those plant-based foods have more slowly digestible starches, which means the glucose goes slowly into the bloodstream. and then besides the slowly adjustable starches, which are found in peas and beans and also, by the way, in kohlrabi and cauliflower and beets and carrots. But if they’re raw, if they’re cooked, you increase the sink load somewhat, and then you have the foods highest in resistant starch. Resistant starch is more resistant to enzymatic degradation, and it’s converted almost fully into bacteria that support the health of the microbiome in the gut. Now, because resistant starch is a carbohydrate, it is counted as a carbohydrate, and 90% of it doesn’t get absorbed into the bloodstream; it passes into the toilet bowl.

The bacteria turn the resistant starch into fat, but 10% of that fat produces short-chain fatty acids that are beneficial and healthy. Anti-inflammatory fats like butyrate and butyrate have a significant negative feedback loop on the hypothalamus apostate. It makes you feel like eating cuts your appetite down. The more resistant starch you eat, the more slowly it’s going into the bloodstream. Because the carbohydrate is not absorbed as a carbohydrate, it increases the stool fat and increases the number of calories in the stool. What that did was increase the amount of relative absorbable protein, because when you think about the amount of protein in a bean in terms of carbohydrate, the beans, let’s say, are 15% protein, and then if you remove, let’s say, 20% of the calories that are carbohydrates and throw them away, then it means the 15% is 19% protein because you didn’t because the carbohydrates are not there.

In other words, the loss of carbohydrate-absorption ability from the resistant starch in beans, legumes, and peas means that the protein percent of calories absorbed is even higher than we think. That extra amount of carbohydrate that has been degraded by bacteria is fueling the growth of healthy bacteria simultaneously, thus leading to what scientists call the second meal effect, which means that other meals, when you’re not eating beans or peas, are going to slow their glucose absorption because of the extra bacteria growth you get from eating all the resistant starch from beans and peas. So in the combination of all these foods, I see two raw foods or raw green vegetables, including lettuce. By the way, don’t think lettuce is a superfood. It’s a superfood because lettuce is the richest source of sulfur, both of which support the growth of good bacteria in the gut. Also, lettuce is very low in oxalic acid and has no oxalic acid. All its calcium is readily absorbable compared to spinach or beet tops.

In other words, lettuce is a readily absorbable calcium, readily absorbable protein, and readily absorbable carbohydrate that feeds the growth of good bacteria. Then you have lettuce and other raw leafy greens that we put in the salad, chewing very well, and raw onion, and cause all the organelles sulfide compounds to have beneficial effects on the immune system, and this combination of foods supports the growth of the intraepithelial lymphocytes that surround right behind the villi that are supporting your immune system’s growth to defend you against toxins, viruses, and bacteria translocated into the bloodstream.

The cooked foods are beans and mushrooms, which are highly supportive of favorable bacteria in the gut. We’re saying here, very differently from other people, that we want good soil. We want good natural organic soil with the full amount of fungi, bacteria, insects, and worms. We want all this natural material and soil to have the full spectrum of nutrients and food, which leads to the highest concentration of nutrients in our cells. We have this relationship with nature where our cells get extra protection from food—healthy foods from a variety of these foods consumed in excellent soils. We’re all utilizing this science to target and allow ourselves to have higher protective immunity, higher brain function, a higher body, and higher intellectual function as we age.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

We’ve been speaking about how much it’s important to bring in healthy foods, whether raw, cooked, or chewed. You describe a little bit about why it’s important to reduce processed plant foods because many times people go does that mean I can eat an impossible burger? Or some of the other highly processed, very popular vegan junk food, so to speak? Can you speak to that a bit?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

Because there’s so much we could be speaking about. But it seems like your body gets into a rhythm of healing and detoxification where it’s vigilantly protecting itself, and the minute you start taking in food-related substances, it shuts it off and starts just building up more fluid in the tissues. It’s just amazing how, when you start eating processed foods or empty-calorie foods, the body tries to convert them into energy. But to convert food into energy, it requires cofactors and phytochemicals to diffuse the free radicals produced in the mitochondria, or the production of energy. It slows the conversion and interferes with the conversion of this food into energy. It’s more readily and comfortably shunted for fat, and it turns on fat storage hormones. The more processed foods you’re eating, you’re turning off detoxification, you’re turning off energy production, you’re increasing fat production, you’re slowing down detoxification, and you’re allowing the body to hold on to fluid to dilute the acidity and toxicity of the free radicals produced because you’re still converting that food into energy.

But with a lack of antioxidants and the conversion of energy, you’re allowing free radicals to escape out of their confines in the cell, and you’re producing more inflammation in the body. As you eat processed foods, you are just allowing your body to produce more inflammation, and more inflammation leads to more acidity, so you are just allowing your body to put in more fluid, put more ways toward detoxification, and store fat. You are not just accelerating poor health to the degree that you eat those foods. We’re trying to say, Why eat self-destructive food so early? Why not eat constructively? We can make healthy foods taste great. Why not choose to do good for yourself? So people live through taste, and they’re forgetting that they can learn how to make the healthiest foods taste good. 30 seconds of extra taste from having these things isn’t worth the health problems that it could potentially bring.

Most people, because they haven’t lived healthily for the first 50, 40, 50, or 60 years of their lives, can’t play around anymore. They’ve got to let their bodies heal, recover, and repair. then they think that I’m too radical in advocating such a healthy diet, but in reality, I’m just giving people the tools they need to protect their future, prevent tragedies, and give them a healthier, happier, and more peaceful life with more creativity and the ability to enjoy their lives by being constructive, feeling appreciative, and feeling good with everything you put in your body and in your mouth.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

It’s funny. You’ll have someone who’s very ill, like, well, can I eat a little bit like this? Can I eat in moderation to let it go? Some moderation kills. You had your time to play. It’s time to grow up and eat well to stay well. I appreciate that. But one last question: given the role of minerals like potassium and magnesium in blood pressure regulation, which plant foods are rich sources of that and which and maybe should be staples in your diet, at least from the blood pressure component?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

The real answer is that all plant foods have adequate potassium and magnesium, and the reason why people need those nutrients is because they’re salting their food. When you add salt to your diet, the body has to remove the extra sodium in the sweat and the urine, removing extra sodium that you don’t need. It takes away other minerals with it, but it can’t. Isolated lines just pull out the sodium, keeping all of the minerals in the body. It has to just excrete more electrolytes to get this extra sodium out. You lose magnesium, phosphorus, and potassium in your urine and your sweat. But when you eat a low-sodium diet, your body’s not excreting sodium.

When you sweat, it’s water. It’s not that you’re not sweating salt and other electrolytes. You don’t have to worry about eating bananas, which have potassium. The whole idea that you’re eating a certain food to get more minerals is not true. I’d like people to think about it. I’d like them to recognize that the natural plant food diet already has the right amount of minerals: the right amount of sodium, the right amount of potassium, the right amount of manganese, the right amount of phosphorus, and the right amount of potassium. If you don’t add juice or if you don’t have sodium chloride in your food.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

That’s great.

Joel Fuhrman, MD

Like a no-brainer. Yes, I love it. I’m also telling people that food doesn’t taste that great once you’re in the coffin. If we want to enjoy our lives and enjoy eating food, we have to stay alive to do so.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

That’s going to be my new phrase. I’m going to steal. I will give you credit, but I will steal, though.

Joel Fuhrman, MD

Okay.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

This is a great way to end it. Thank you, Dr. Fuhrman, for sharing your insights and your decades of experience. But could you give us a little bit more information about the work that you do down in San Diego? Because people may find that you have a new book as well, correct?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

My most recent book is called Eat for Life. I do offer people, events, and counsel, and they can ask me questions on drfuhrman.com. But for some people who just need extra help, and as many people don’t seem to have food, they have a food addiction, and they have difficulty following the diet. So this retreat I have in San Diego is a beautiful place for people to stay for a minimum of two months to try to lose weight, get their health back on track, get off some of the medications, get rid of their food addiction, build back the taste muscle, and learn the mindfulness and philosophical and emotional tools to be able to leave the retreat and be able to continue to do this in their life in a comfortable, peaceful, and fun way because they’ve learned how to do it and gotten used to eating this way. It keeps my connection with people. Frankly, it’s so rewarding because my wife and I have built so many friends here. We built like-life friends, and it’s exciting to watch people get well, get to know them, and still keep connected with people like that. I’m still not just talking to a zoomed-in, empty audience on the screen. I’m working with people, which I love to do. I have this retreat in San Diego, which is a lot of fun, and we revel in watching people transform their health to come here.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

That is, honestly, the joy of doing the work, even though it’s hard. at times you get to keep going. Is it the end of the day that you help people get well and live your life?

Joel Fuhrman, MD

That feels like it’s very rewarding. Also, it’s amazing that you have the camaraderie and people have camaraderie among themselves, and you’re building a little nest of social support groups along the way.

Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA

It’s a constant conversation. Thank you again for sharing that. Thank you, everyone, for listening, and we’ll see you in the next conversation.