Discover The Importance Of Your Lymphatics

Christine Schaffner, ND

Thank you. Thank you, Sinclair. The feeling is, of course, mutual, and it’s always so lovely to be connected in this space as we are always having these conversations outside of interviews as well. So it is really fun to share our collective knowledge today.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

And aside from my deep love and respect for Dr. Christine, I want you guys to know one of the reasons why I had to have her on the summit for you. She is such a star in helping people to resolve complex chronic illnesses. She is an expert in Lyme. She is an expert on fascia. She’s an expert on resolving interference fields of thousands of thousands of people through this process in a way that fuels five are really equipped to do so. It’s wonderful to have you here. And I want to dive into and weave together a couple of your areas of expertise today so people can really connect the dots. Why haven’t I gotten well yet? What are those overlooked blocks to healing so.

Christine Schaffner, ND

We’re going to have fun. And this is you know, my joy of when I meet with a new patient, you know, so many of our patients, right? They’re just so amazing, they are so determined to get better. They’ve gone through such like so many things like that. They’ve been gaslit chronically in the medical system. And by the time they find a functional medicine doctor or an alternative practitioner, they still have a lot of work to do. Right. And I’m really passionate about this topic because I think it’s still pretty niched and not as well known as to helping people who recover from a chronic illness so we can dive into Interference Fields to sort of if that works for you, Sinclair?

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

I think that’s perfect. So first of all, what is an Interference Field and how might it affect somebody?

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, absolutely. So Interference Fields are this like this terminology that comes out of this form of medicine that used to be called biological medicine, but now we call it bio-regulatory medicine to really differentiate us from the pharmaceuticals that are biologics now and bio-regulatory really has that terminology, regulation and the in the title in regulation is this really beautiful concept that the body, is this very beautiful, intelligent, wise and it has this wise healing ability and it has this ability to self-regulate and heal. And when we see a patient who’s sick, we have to ask ourselves, “Now why are they dysfunctional? What is in the way that is really affecting their body’s ability to self-regulate and heal?” Our body is way more intelligent than any doctor out there. And so, you know, we’ve learned a system in modern life. There are many stressors, many forces that are keeping us all sick. And this is a language in a context to kind of really look at the deeper reasons what are keeping our body’s ability to have this self-regulate or incapacity. So when we look at interference fields there in groups, we think about our interference fields that we can talk about. We can talk about dental interference fields, and we can also talk about focal infections or foci that we can talk about as well. And I’ll just break that down if that works for you. So these are really kind of these hidden, smoldering kinds of areas that are really impacting our communication works in the body and creating this chronic small brain stress that is really hard to unmask and find. And when people start dealing and tackling. But in these areas, their health and vitality come back and their body can really do the work that it’s been trying to do for so long. And so a little out of order. But I think I’ll start with the dental piece and then kind of leave the other pieces. And so a lot more practitioners are understanding about the dental piece of every functional doctor. Every bio-regulatory doctor needs to work with an amazing biological dentist because that is really the team to really reduce, and reverse these chronic illnesses that are plaguing our society. And when we think about conventional dental practices, they’re really set up to create chronic illness. 

So we know there’s so much information now about amalgams and how amalgams are an amalgam of metal mercury being the primary metal and amalgams. And mercury is one of the most known neurotoxins and it gets into our cranial nerves and gets into our brain. We can release that mercury vapor that’s not inert, but it’s actually very active and that can actually even be held and it can line our digestive tract as well. So we got two of my patients do they’ll have amalgams. It’s amazing that still people who are going through this illness and have seen a lot of doctors still have amalgams. That is one of the first things that I do because my hands are really tied. When people have amalgams to treat them, they’re really reactive. They have a sense that they’re really rigid and their regulation, they’re very stuck. And I can’t use all my tools because they can be aggravated. But by then, if we still have amalgams. So that’s the first thing that we do. And then we’ll Google getting amalgams removed and you’ll read the horror stories and you don’t want to do that. But I assure you, when you have a really good team and you have the right support and you do this in a mindful way where you’re working on detoxification and drainage and using binders and even IV therapy and lymphatic work, this can be, you know, patients will walk out of the dental chair and they’ll feel their brain turned off for the first time. 

So I want to encourage you and to be courageous in this pursuit of your health, to get these amalgams removed. And I’ll kind of touch on to the mercury amalgams, also poison the vagus nerve. So we’ll kind of weave in as we’re talking about Interference Fields, this idea of vagus nerve infection and toxicity. And when we think about that, gut, of course, we’re always thinking about the vagus nerve. It’s the 10th cranial nerve. It innovates or heart or lungs or digestive tract. We have a lot of information that travels from our gut to our brain and that’s really the main highway system that’s happening. Along those nerve fibers. And when they become toxic and built up with these neurotoxins and mercury being one of them, it can slow down or dampen that communication and that nerve plexus and then the nervous system. And what happens over time is that the nerve can become, it’s like that’s really dysautonomia are vagus nerve impairment is when people have these issues so mercury the number one neurotoxin in them.

What we also had is root canals and root canals are dead. That’s the only form of medicine where we actually keep dead tissue in the human body. And so the dead tissue actually kind of it’s not sterile and unfortunately becomes highly infected. We’ve seen root canal teeth that are full of bacteria and fungi, viruses, and so forth. And so these dead teeth can chronically poison the lymphatics. Also, the biotoxins from the dead teeth and the bacteria, viruses, even because parasites, you name it, they can also make their home in the vagus nerve that we look at cavitation. Cavitations are big, so cavitation is a really big one. We’re looking at chronic digestive issues. My patients who never recover from SIBO and often have an infection in their cavitation area and this is the wisdom tooth cavitation. So the tooth is taken out and because of conventional dental practices, often the periodontal ligament isn’t completely removed and that doesn’t allow that signal need to occur to make healthy, you know, and other issues can happen as well. Other surgical techniques or the immune system is already weakened and what happens is there’s a pocket of necrotic dead disease bone that forms in this area. And again, this is silent and smoldering. And it’s often people don’t have symptoms in that area. So people do. And that’s, again, poisoning the lymphatics and affecting the vagus nerve. So all of this and then you can have cavitation if you have taken teeth out and have them extracted and have had them not heal properly. 

So all of that we are and that’s our checklists. And it’s amazing how many people who come into my office still have that checklist, you know, that they have we have to tackle and we come up with a plan. So this has a profound effect on our gut. The oral microbiome is where the digestion starts. And so if we completely have these toxins that are affecting our oral microbiome or we have now spirochetes in our mouth or all the other microbes that I’ve talked about where swallowing in that every day and that can affect our digestive tract. So dental health, our oral microbiome, and these interference fields from toxins, toxicants, and infections are affecting our gut. And it’s a really great place to look if you’re not recovering from a chronic digestive issue, and I’m sure you see that, Sinclair, all the time.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Oh, yeah, absolutely. You did such a beautiful job of summarizing all the different factors at play and really helping to connect the dots like this is affecting people at the nervous system level and also, yes, at the digestive and microbiome levels. So just, yeah, I’ve never, that was like the perfect encapsulation and there’s no accent hurting here. Everybody listen, because this is such an important piece. I mean, American dentistry especially is quite archaic. And it’s not uncommon for us to see this in our practices. And there’s a reason why, like our rapid gut reset course always starts with dental.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yes, of course. It’s actually specific. Yeah, of course it does. Right?

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Yeah. So you said something so interesting that I would love for you to unpack further this concept of the vagus nerve itself. Actually becoming toxic from these not just Interference Fields but from the mercury toxicity in amalgam fillings. Expand on that a little bit.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And again, the vagus nerve has gotten a lot of attention, rightly so, in the last 3 to 5 years. And it’s a really important part of our autonomic nervous system function. It is a communication highway from our brain that engages our primary fight, fight, or freeze mechanism. And so the two are in a relaxation. We always learn that the parasympathetic function is rest and digest. So when we were in a relaxed state, that’s what our digestion turns on and many people in modern life do not have that. And so I see a lot of patients I don’t think of chronic gut this issues but a lot of dysautonomia so those are going to be the POTS patients or the people who have chronic arrhythmias or palpitations or feel dizzy all the time or just not feeling like they can regulate their nervous system. Well, and so I experienced looking at the vagus nerve and how to heal it from this perspective. 

And before we do all those wonderful tools that are very popular now from singing and humming and gargling and getting relaxed and doing different things. We have to really look at upstream, kind of why is it not working to begin with? And so this has just been an area that I’ve seen really be fruitful. And when we remove the upstream toxin infection we put less stress on our vagus nerve and then we could really heal and actually recover. We do a lot of work with the lymph surrounding lymphatics of the vagus nerve in the neck there are big branches that vagus nerve comes out of the brain stem area and there branches in either side of our neck. And this is a really big area so this is the area we focus on, also the connection to the mouth and with the vagus nerve being right there. The people at Stanford, Dr. Van al-Bakr, he talks about this kind of sickness syndrome that happens when people have chronic fatigue. And he even talks about the pre-ganglia around the vagus nerve and how that becomes infected as well. So we open up the lymphatic chain and the lymphatic network in the neck after and throughout treatment, of course, you know, doing the mouth. And that really helps the nervous system and that vagus nerve recovery. So you know, lymphatic we’re, we made a cream called Lymphflo that really works about helping with lymph node movement and also helps with the reasons why the vagus nerve is congested and sick to begin with. It has a peptide called GC Mass and that cream. And then also, you know, some other of my favorite vagus nerve tools are Diana Driscoll’s Parasym Plus, I love and has thiamin hydrochloride and you know some support for that acetylcholine because that’s the neurotransmitter that the biggest communicates with. I also love Tom Callahan’s stuff.

And this I can really help with the heart palpitations so we have tools while we’re cleaning the sun. But it’s a really, I think, important area that’s misunderstood still. So so yeah. So the dental piece and the vagus nerve and then, and just again, I could go down rabbit holes and I really want to make sure people get a lot out of this interview is that a lot of people who have Lyme struggle with Bartonella. And Bartonella is a co-infection also called cat scratch disease. If you’ve had a cat and you know, these are vector-borne illnesses that are beyond just tick bites, you know, we know that, you know, unfortunately, Lyme gets transmitted. What these infections and mosquito’s fleas you know you name that and then it’s not just in the northeast, it is all across the world that this is happening. And Bartonella can be a very severe neurological co-infection and it loves to hang out on the vagus nerve. And so we walk through that kind of symptomology and there are people who’ve written papers in the early days of discovering this that they call it the Bell’s Palsy into like this kind of freeze and motility of your gut. And that can be a Bartonella infection. And so if you have, like taken every laxative and done every cleanse and your gut is like that at a standstill. We may have to bring in some other stronger tools to keep your bowels moving and then it works, really healing the neurological infection of Bartonella. So I just wanted to throw that in there because I know there is probably some people who have had quite put those pieces together on the call today.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

I hope there are a lot of light bulbs going off right now, especially for the practitioners listening in because so many practitioners are still not well versed in interference fields, in dental issues, and absolutely, and co-infections and how they can manifest. So thank you. Also, do you want to wrap up about those three aspects before we talk about other types of interference fields?

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, I think that we did a lot and we can go to the next kind of group in interference fields. So dental checklist, okay, you guys have that. If you’re making a checklist at home, take a good survey of your mouth and then we have the next, aspect that apparently I think,  go to this idea of focal infections, if that’s okay with you. Sinclair. This is a really helpful area to look at. Again, these are chronic areas of infection, inflammation and toxicity that the body has been so kind of taken over by this chronicity of what’s happening, that I mean, system often goes asleep and doesn’t mount a response anymore. However, those microbes are still in that tissue, chronically poisoning the body. And so the big ones I see, I mean, there’s many that I could talk about today, but I think the two that are probably the most impactful, especially when we think about gut health, are the tonsils and the sinuses. And we just had a really good overview of the mouth. And when you think about swallowing we have the frontline of our immune system is our tonsil or tissue. And we don’t just have two tonsils. We have this whole ring of lymphatic tissue called Waldeyer’s ring and we have the Palatine tonsils been trimmed back. If you’ve had your tonsils removed, those are often the tonsils that are removed. We have the adenoids at the rear of the mouth, the tubal tonsils at the end of the Eustachian tube, and then the lingual tonsils under the tongue. And there’s this whole ring of lymphatic tissue that is really priming and helping out our immune system of proper response. 

And it has a really like part and a part of lymphatic tissue that I also think that connects their gut in our brain because our lymphatic system and our brain works when we are sleeping and has to find its way through and, you know, out of the brain.And one route of where that lymphatic drainage happens is through the cribriform plate in the sinuses, and it finds its way to this tonsil tissue. So this tissue has like chronic strep or Epstein-Barr or Lyme and co-infections or what have you or has been poisoned by mercury from inhaling it for 50 years. You know, that is going to be an area of stagnation. And what the lymphatic system is all about, if it’s stuck in one area, can be stuck in other areas. So it creates kind of a traffic jam at the lymphatics here. So it can affect brain drainage. So that gut in the brain and then also it primes the gut associated lymphoid tissue. So again, it can affect and communicate these pathogens down downstream into the gut. So this is also if you’re out there and you have a child with PANDAS or you have PANS or an adult with PANS, that is one of the connections. So we sometimes, we take the tonsils out. I’m a naturopath, but sometimes that’s the best idea because the tonsils are so far gone and they’re poisoning the body even though anything can be healed. I just, I’m always biasing for people getting better at the pass. Right. And when you see people so sick, sometimes that is the most compassionate thing to do. 

But, you know, we use propolis and ozone and neuro therapy and gargles and just starting to tend to pay attention to that tissue has a huge impact in the overall body. And then the other interference field. We know a lot from the mold community. You know how the mold can affect the microbiome in the sinuses. And the sinuses are even closer to the brain. And if we have chronic dysbiosis in our sinuses, that can affect the pituitary, and it also can be an entry for those microbes to get into the brain through the olfactory bulb. And then that can create a lot of neuroinflammation, again, that PANS and PANDAS picture. You know, I really hope in my lifetime, in my career, that we have a whole different view of neuropsychiatric illnesses and mental health. And we’re working through a map, looking at it through the lens of toxicity, inflammation and microbial-driven neuroinflammation. And so we do a lot to heal the sinuses again. And if people can really mold exposed, we usually do antifungals in the nasal passages. If there is a dysbiosis picture, we’ll use other treatments. And again, I have like tons of nasal sprays and also ozone sometimes that we use. So that’s also because again, where these tissues are related to the gut in Chinese medicine, the stomach meridian is, you know, begins kind of over the sinuses. And so we know there’s the big  connection there. So as far as interference fields, look at the dental piece, you got your tonsils and your sinuses and those could be scaling your energy and taking away the ability to self-renew and keep you in a chronic pattern.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

That’s so beautifully said. And this part gets often referred to, but there’s not there’s never really a good explanation for how it works and what are your options to deal with it. So, you know, what I love about this is that we’re talking about the hidden drivers underneath chronic gut infections because so many people are obsessing at like the probiotic level. Like, have you tried probiotic, you know, the small intestine. And really what we’re talking about is all those upstream hidden drivers right now. So I know we’re running out of time, but I really. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah. I can do a quick thing on scars if that works for you.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

You’re so good at this piece. I really want to know what is available to them if they really take a look at their scars as interference fields.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yes. About you know, I was running late for Sinclair because we were just injecting scars, you know, over, you know, in the other room and, you know, scar injections, if you are a naturopathic practitioner and you just heard this, you’re going to do a great service to your patients and really to allow their body to restore communication and to restore remission. So scars are this, you know, plug in the middle of this beautiful facial fabric that we’re all gifted to, this architecture of our human body and the fascia’s sense living communication network. There’s more and more research describing this. So we could have another conversation, another segment about how beautiful this is. And, you know, thank goodness everybody knows how to really plug this, you know, injury. So this area of injury with this scar tissue, but scar tissue is dense, it’s irregular, it’s kind of stuck. There’s adhesions. So it doesn’t allow for this beautiful communication to flow in this network. There’s been people like May one homes like in the functional network to the acupuncture audiences to them and tell when we are in health, we have a flow of information. And when we’re in disease, we have stagnation, congestion and a block of that flow. And so scar tissue can do that. And then it can also because of the irregularity and the kind of a cross network of the scar tissue, it can collect toxicants, pathogens and trauma. 

And so it can be this, as Louise Williams says, this island of turbulence and the facial fabric that is going to block regulation and be stressful to our nervous system and stressful to our lymphatic system. And so when we do scar therapy and again, if you have kind of the gut issues, do you have an appendectomy scar? Did you get your gallbladder removed? Do you have a C-section? Your belly button is our first scar. Do you have laparoscopic surgeries? These are little but big insults to our fabric. And even the release of emotional memory that is creating stagnation from these past can just be as important as getting about a backup line and removing that stress. And so scar neural therapy is one way if you work with a doctor who knows how to do that a lot, acupuncturists know how to surround the dragon and needle the scar. You know, Premier Research labs, they teach a lot of people who can inject mud pack the scar, which is not a bad idea. You can also use our flow cream if you have the scars as well. But just, you know, being aware that scars can have this disturbance in the flow of information in your body and it sounds, again, so little and simple, but it can be quite profound and of restoring regulation, communication and bring your body more towards health.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

It is so important that we’re highlighting this I think because people learn to live with scars like it’s the definition of, hey, I got it as far as I could, you know, the body and I healed as much as I could, and now I’m going to proceed and ignore it. And that’s really what the body does. It’s like this dysregulated area here, like you say, the island of turbulence. And it’s almost like a radio station that’s tuned to the wrong destination. Right. So the biggest thing that I want the audience to understand that you’re saying is that it’s a disruption to the communication and not just at the biochemical level, but actually at the bioelectrical level. And so you’re, I love that you’re giving practitioners that don’t have license to inject strategies as well and things that we can do at home. So like, for example, with your flow cream, how would people apply it and you know, for how long as etc.?

Christine Schaffner, ND

Thank you. Yeah. With our Lymphflo cream, I created that with Dr. Marco Ruggiero and he spent his whole life work figuring out how to find natural compounds to produce this peptide just enough. And it really restores lymphatic drainage wherever you apply it. And so you know, really, if you have a scar that you haven’t intended to, I would apply the lymph flow cream daily, you know, for a good months regularly and then you can cut back off and then you can use it. And other areas that feel like you’re had stagnation, we’ve really formulated to get the back lymphatic system draining. So that’s a good place to start if you don’t know where you can apply that your neck at bedtime to open the pathway for drainage out of the brain.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

That’s beautiful. Love it. Okay, so we tackled so much in a short amount of time. And, you know, for folks that really want to hear your thoughts directly about gut dysregulation from the perspective of the lymphatics and the fascia, which you’re such an expert at, can you leave us with any just gems about, like the gut and all that stuff?

Christine Schaffner, ND

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there is this whole beautiful lymphatic system within our gut and around our gut. And the limbic system is not just only about draining metabolic waste and toxicity of the tissue, it’s also a big part of our immune system helps our immune system engage with antigens or, you know, things that we picked up in our environment and really deal with that. And when we have chronic health issues, we have stagnation in the system. And when we have our stagnation, as you’ve heard me say, that’s where disease starts in the cells break down and your body is chronically sick. So, you know, we have this beautiful lymphatic system within the gut. That’s the Peyer’s patches in the cold to the malt and the lactose that help us absorb sites that are really building blocks for our cell membranes that are hormones. And then I was trained to think about the lymph behind the gut. 

So we have this whole intestinal wall. And then when we have a lot of chronic inflammation between the abdominal wall and the intestines in this kind of mesenteric social fabric, fluid can build up. So you can have fluid in the gut and fluid behind the gut. And that’s why a lot of people who do abdominal massage, when people have a lot of chronic issues, they help restore lymphatic drainage to the rest of the body because this is, again, a big traffic jam in the body when we have this lymphatic buildup. So my abdominal massage for people who know how to deal with that abdominal massage castor oil packs all of that is going to tend to blow that in the gut. And when we break up the stagnation and get them in that system moving the body can get back online. And, you know, hopefully that’s what we all want for you. And I know that will be a big part of recovery in your digestive system.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today. Can I ask you to just share a couple last thoughts, friends? So yeah, we’re the advanced students in the audience, the ones. Mike, Okay, I’ve done my dental work. Dr. Christine And I feel like I’m working my lymph. What would you say to them for encouragement and where to look or what’s a new way for them to look at this that they may have.

Christine Schaffner, ND

You know? Yeah, yeah. You know, good question. You know, and really, you know, healing starts once we remove the obstacle to health and I know that you have done so much. Let’s say you’ve done your dental work that takes so much energy and resources and you just want to feel better right away. You know, some people already do. They feel lighter and they feel better. But we’ve just taken the boulder out of the middle of the road. So there can be flow and movement. And this is a time not to back down on treatment, but it’s time to really embrace treatment and to embrace the journey that you’re on. I know that it can be really a mental marathon in the game of chronic illness and you’re not alone. There are many people out there who are just on the strategy, just like you. And I find that healing can be like these valleys and troughs as we move, you know, up. And so just, you know, the more and more tools that you have, the you know, that that’s where healing happens. And so again, moving this boulder out of the way, we still need to again, that’s when actually mercury detoxification starts. And I’ve been humbled with how long it takes to get mercury out of the body. It takes a long time. That is a marathon, not a sprint. And then this is a time where now that you’ve cleaned up these pockets of Bartonella and bacteria, now’s the time to do your bartonella herbs and do your treatments in those ways.  So I would encourage you to not get discouraged and for you to really work with your practitioner or your provider who really can help you prioritize. As Sinclair and I, are able to take this whole landscape of there’s so many things to think about with the patients with chronic illness, and everybody wants a cookbook, do this, do that, do this, do that. And then we think we’re all better. But it’s actually tuning in to your individual needs. Please work with a doctor who is going to, a practitioner who’s going to listen to you and help you unravel and reflect what needs to happen at the right time. Healing this all time is we could have all the best ideas in the world, but we can’t do it all at once. So we have to figure out the timing of that. And that’s really I use a lot of bioenergetics and muscle testing to help communicate with my body, my body and the patient’s body, you know, to find those answers. Because if I’m too much in my head or too much and the textbook that’s when the whole kind of vision and mission and message of healing gets lost. You have to really work with the subtle energies to help your patient heal.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

So beautifully said. Sharing your wisdom with us.

Christine Schaffner, ND

So yeah, this could be to be continued. I know I give a lot in a short period of time and these are big rabbit holes, but I think that you have a lot to work with if you stand up for this conversation of where you might be able to go to explore next.

Sinclair Kennally, CNHP, CNC

Exactly. Thank you.

Christine Schaffner, ND

Thank you, Sinclair.