Fasting 101: The Truth About Fasting and Cancer

Introduction to Dr. Dario Pompa 0:00

Hey, it's Nathan Crane, director of the Health and Healing Club and host of the Conquering Cancers Summit. And today, I am honored and excited to welcome you to a very special interview. Doctor Dario Pompe is a respected leader in the health and wellness space, educating practitioners and the public on the origins of inflammation driven disease. Which we know cancer is absolutely an inflammation driven disease. He's an expert in fasting, ancestral based health approaches, cellular healing and detoxification.

Although he was trained as a chiropractor, his authority is rooted in his own battle, having overcome neurotoxic illness and heavy metal poisoning using his own unique cellular detoxification strategies, which we'll talk about as well. He's, relentless self experimenter, as you know. You know, that's exactly how I've been for 15 years. I study it, I researched it, I learned from the world leading experts in the field, and then I implement it in my own life. And, you know, he's a relentless self experimenter, which is which I think is really, speaks a lot to his character.

And what you'll learn from him, because it's one thing to research something, to read it to learn about, to hear it. It's a totally other thing to actually do it, to actually do the fasting, to actually change your diet, to actually try the different types of medicinal movements and so on. So he brings that level of experience, which, you know, we need nowadays, especially with so many so-called social media health experts. Right. And he's really a true warrior of, from pain to purpose. It's a mindset that he speaks about and lives by, and he talks in-depth on removing the cause of toxicity, inflammation, going upstream and following a multi therapeutic approach to health and healing, which, as you know, is what the Global Cancer Symposium is all about.

It's about looking at, you know, integrative healing modalities that are effective and safe, especially when you're dealing with something like cancer. His website, his doctor. Perfect com is Dr. Pompa doctor. Com make sure to go take a look at his website. Right after this interview. Doctor Palmer, thank you so much for joining us. I'm glad to be here. I love the topic. So I want to just cut right to the chase. Can can fasting be done safely for people who have cancer?

Fasting and Cancer Safety 2:25

You know, it can't. You know, I interviewed, Thomas Seyfried. I don't know if you ever interviewed him for one of your, pieces that you've created, but, you know, he said something pretty dramatic, and he's, in the field of oncology for, almost 30 years, if not over that at this point. But he said one fast, extended fasting year can decrease your chances of getting cancer at least 95%. And so the bold statement, you know, and there's reasons for that that we'll talk about obviously. But yes, it can I but I do want to say at the top of the show, because every cancer is very different, every situation, every human.

Always check with your doctor you're working with first, you know, absolutely state that. Just to be clear, because I mean, we know I mean, certain cancers respond fabulously and others may not as much. So check with your doctor. Yeah. I mean that's huge just in terms of prevention. Right. And extended fast once a year, 95%, you know, potential reduction of risk for cancer. When he's talking and I know of his his great. Glad you referenced. Yeah. He, he wrote cancer is a metabolic disease. Yeah.

He did a lot of studies, with obviously ketosis etc.. But you know, in his book he said that ketosis in itself isn't enough. You have to have restriction. What do you mean by restriction. Is fasting right. And fasting strategies. And I was blessed to be in a mastermind with him. And, you know, I a lot even in my fasting book, I really, really took from, from his years of just brilliant work. Yeah. I mean, we know cancer is so adaptable. I mean, there we used to think, right? The science used to believe that it was only a glucose based, fuel source that cancer would depend on.

But what they found is when they starve cancer cells, and only fed and ketones, cancer can actually adapt to thrive on ketones. They start with ketones. There's 2 or 3 other energy sources that cancer can adapt to thrive on rice. You know, it has to be a multifaceted approach. It has to be. You have to address everything, right? The entire, you know, diet, nutrition, exercise, lifestyle, everything, which is, you know, all these interviews with cover go into all those different aspects, even mental, emotional healing, spiritual connection, all of that.

And in regards to fasting, when when you're talking about it, when he's even talking about, you know, extended periods of fasting, how how long of periods are we talking about? Yeah. Look, I mean, it depends on the person. Some people can do a three day fasting, get great benefit. How other? Some people don't fat adapt in reach, which we call max autophagy fast enough in typically five days. Now, look, you know, that could be a partial fast. We're getting your calories under a thousand in keeping protein at least under 20, depending on body size.

Or it could be pure water. You know, I do see, and this is my clinical experience that, you know, we see people hit deeper levels of autophagy. I don't want to say that word one more time without giving it definition for people that don't know what it is. That means that when you're in a fasted state, or caloric deep, caloric restricted state, your body will eat the bad cells, including potential cancer cells, bad DNA, just in, you know, in senescent cells, cells that live too long. It and oftentimes lead to cancer.

But it'll take those cells for energy and repair before it'll actually take a good cell. That's the magic of autophagy. So you know yeah. So some people don't get to that autophagy state until a little longer. So therefore we have to look at a five day fast to where most people hit what we call max a top to where your body's really getting rid of these bad cells around four day four, fourth day in. And, primarily you're talking about water fasting, but you also said like a major caloric deficit,

Autophagy, Partial Fasting, and Benefits 6:30

like in a thousand, maybe a thousand calories a day, for example. Yeah, exactly. You know, I mean, I, Valter Longo is, probably the more modern researcher, and scientist, who showed that partial fasting, we can achieve very similar benefits, meaning anywhere under a thousand calories if you're, if you're small or maybe it's five, 600. But you also have to get protein under 20, you know, if you're small or maybe it's 15g a day. So that's grams of protein a day and that's under a thousand calories.

So that's called a partial fast. You know, but look, I learned of partial fasting years ago from a Frenchman, Albert Mercier. And, I back in the 90s, I studied fasting. But, look, you know, I, I think that there's a place for that. There's a place for pure water fasting where you're really, you know, just allowing the innate intelligence to tap in, you know, to that autophagy in those bad cells as an energy source. So that's so, so let's back up a little bit. So that's obviously one of the major benefits of fasting.

What are some other really key benefits people can, you know, expect from from your longer fast I know three days is kind of I know in my experience it's like that's minimum 5 to 7 seems to be like a really good like let's call it entry level. Really. Right. Like to start really seeing good benefits 5 to 7. I found 10 to 21 days is like where you're really in not just water fasting. Right. Like juice feasting, cleansing, detoxing a major caloric deficit. Right. But what are a lot more benefits people can, can really gain from fasting and cleansing.

And I'm not a fan of juice fasting because it really does. You know, one of the magics of fasting, you know, is keeping that glucose down. So you go into autophagy just like protein, right? If you eat too much protein, you shut off autophagy. That's why we have to keep protein down. If you're doing a partial fast glucose as well. Glucose rises on juice, fasting. You're really missing a lot of the benefits. I just was someone just sent me a study in the last two days that, you know, they were. They compare juice fasting, with regular types of fasting.

And there wasn't any as much of the benefit. What we're dealing with here with the some of the other benefits, though, are, look, you know, the brains of water fasting is you're resting this massive energy, user of digesting and assimilating food and the body just doesn't sit on that extra energy. I, I talk about it. I call it energy diversion. So it diverts that energy that it would normally utilize to digest, assimilate food in a diverts it to healing. It's brilliant. So when we see people in a fasted state, all of a sudden they start retracing into some of the these things injuries that they've had years ago, like, gosh, this left knee is killing me at night or my sacrum in me.

While that was an injury they had 20 years ago. You know, it's kind of like, you know, you take a vacation and all of a sudden, you know, you get to your honeydew list, right? Because you have more energy. You're on vacation at the end of your day. And also you have time, right? That's kind of what your body goes through, you know, when you're not eating. So the energy conversion, you also reset your microbiome, which we know 70 or 80% of your immune system starts there. But, you know, I wish we could fix that microbiome, and create diversity of the microbiome.

That means, like, more types of bacteria. And that's really what's the link to immunity, which I think is important for cancer. But it's not so easy just to take pills to do that. When we fast, we actually stress the microbiome and we actually create greater diversity, especially after the fact. So it's a way to change, reset the microbiome, and it's a way to create diversity, which is really linked to immunity. Also, we in times of fasting, which I believe genetically, we were all set up. We all need to fast.

I today we just, you know, have the pleasure, I guess, of being constantly in a feast mode. But I don't think it works out so well for us. We're designed our genes are designed to go through times of feast, and famine, I believe. But the famine is what we miss. We don't miss the feast as much. But what happens is we reset our DNA, meaning we take these genes that get turned on. It's called epigenetics. And, you know, yeah, it could be certain cancer genes. It could be a thyroid gene. It could be obese.

You know, whatever it it we can turn on certain genes. But during times of famine or fasting we're able to turn those off. So we talk a lot about genes that get triggered via stressors. It can be physical stress. It could be a chemical stress or an emotional stress. But we don't talk a lot about our body's ability to turn them off. I, I haven't seen anything more powerful than fasting to actually turn off that gene. So resetting the microbiome, resetting your genetics. Obviously, you know, both of those things have a huge effect on our immune system.

The autophagy, which is getting rid of bad cells. And here's the thing. You don't just get rid of a bad cell when you, go through this autophagy, you actually stimulate a stem cell and recreate a new cell. Now, why is that important for a condition like this? Because what happens is I said that you get rid of these things called senescent cells. Well, in our immune system, we call them immuno senescent cells, meaning immune cells that live too long. Now, think of these guys as like zombie cells or better yet, government workers.

They don't do a lot. They sit around doing nothing. You know, getting paid, if you will, taking your your vital nutrition. But they don't do a lot, matter of fact war. So they recruit other cells to do the same, you know. So that's not good. They drive inflammation. And in the case of immune cells they drive hyper immunity which is linked to cancer okay. So we want to get rid of these cells. But here's the best part is we recruit we trigger a stem cell. We create a new immune cell that's vibrant, that's actually doing its job.

It's working for you not driving inflammation and hyper immunity and leading to cancer.

Microbiome, Genetics, and Immune Renewal 12:40

So that that's yet another benefit of what happens during a fasting state. Yeah. I mean, just those alone in you spoke quite a bit on the immune system as well. I mean, are incredible benefits for anyone dealing with cancer. We know that a strong immune system, I mean, Doctor Thomas Loadie, a great colleague and friend, somebody I've worked with for years now. I mean, he says it in my documentary about cancer. He says, you know, there is a cure for cancer. It's called the immune system. And we know when you have a strong immune system, you have a functioning lymphatic system, you have your immune cells, a strong microflora.

All of these things contribute to your body getting rid of cancer by itself. That's what it's designed to do. So I mean, all those benefits you just named alone are worth, you know, deeper exploration for people, certainly, who have cancer that that are considering fasting. I, I do want to mention real quick, you know, when I, when I said juicing, I should have clarified for people who are tuning in, you know, especially with cancer, I'm specifically talking about, green vegetable juicing, right, which is low to no glycemic index with all the healing benefits from that kind of juicing.

So we're not talking about juicing beets and and apples and oranges and things like that. It's cruciferous vegetables. It's high water content vegetables. Right. Those kinds of things. We know all the healing properties there. And I don't know if this study that you referenced earlier had, you know, fruits in it as well, or if it was just vegetable based. Yeah. You know, I mean, you can have, I mean, in a partial fast, right? You can have a little bit of fruit. We try to keep the carbs under 50, you know, in a day's time.

So I would put that in the green fast in the category of partial fasting. Right. And there's benefit to it. And you're right, you know, you can just, you know, juicing carbohydrate, a lot of juice. When people think of juice, unfortunately, you know, they're thinking of the yummy juices, right? You know, with all the glucose, you ask for green stuff, right? Right. I thought I better clarify that because it's important when you have cancer, especially if you're juicing fruit, then you're getting massive amounts of additional sugar without the fiber.

Now your body actually doesn't need when you have cancer, right? So anyway, yeah, I know exactly. Yeah. And I think that's why, you know, some really strict partial Fasters would say, no, you you want some fiber? Not just the juice, right? You know, you're better off eating to get to those count. You have to be careful because you can with juice of any type, you can get, increased cancers pretty fast. You know, so, you know, it's you don't want to just, you know, you get you want to use your calories wisely, but, you know, and then on the, the length of the fast, I don't want people to be intimidated, you know, that.

You have to you have to do a super long fast that may come with time or body mass. You know, a lot of people don't have enough body mass to fast for a certain period of time. Therefore, we've learned that shorter fasts, multiple fast. So multiple five day fast can actually be extremely beneficial. You know, and I just clinically did that years ago knowing that people even mentally can't even think about not eating for a week or two weeks oftentimes. Right. So we kind of chunk it down as a small goal.

But you know, we've learned now with new science, vulture, Longo and others, we seem to hit this max autophagy at day four. And that day five, we have this mat mouse max growth hormone rise. So if we kind of utilize that max time and do it multiple times, once a month, every other month and give the body time to recover, and there there's there's a principle of what I call diet variation there where you can come out of a fast and you need a couple days. You always break a fast or slowly because, right, you're microbiomes to readjust your digestive enzymes, etc.

but after that we move to higher protein and we stimulate a different pathway. One is called autophagy. We discuss on the fast. But this pathway when you're doing high protein is called mTOR. MTOR. Is it anabolic pathway that for some people now and again if you have cancer it may not be a good idea. But for some people it's magic during feast famine, feast famine. Right. So mTOR stimulation, long term people would argue, leads to anti-aging. It can feed cancer cells, right. But short term bursts of it can actually be healing.

But again, you know, everyone's a little bit different. But the bottom line is, even without the mTOR stimulation, you going higher protein by the way, you can stimulate that with high carbs, high protein or high calorie. You see it's opposite pathways. But even still, if you did a fast waited a little bit and then did another fast in a month or two, then another fast, what happens is every fast you seem to get higher, deeper levels of autophagy and all those benefits that I said, it seemed like get more and more and more with each fast.

So instead of just setting out like to do this one fast in the expectation of okay, I'm going to have all these amazing results with one fast, we found that shorter, multiple fast, you kind of just build on each one, and it's easier to think about it that way. Instead of saying, okay, 21 days, right? So anyway, hope that helps people. I think it does because it's also you're looking at a total, you know, a lifestyle shift, if you will, whereas often people will go on a cleanse or a fast and they're like, okay, I'm cleaned out.

I can go back to my old ways of eating. But if you're looking at this as a long term thing, it says, no, I'm going to do this every month, every two months. And part part of it is because I'm shifting what I'm putting into my body. I'm cleaning it out for the long term. I want to put only good nutritional things in before, during if you're doing, you know, cleanses or partial fast and obviously after because the worse you eat between these fasting periods. And there was there was a period of a number of years where I was doing different kinds of fast and cleanses and detox, you know, six, seven, ten times a year is experimenting with all of these.

And, and it's true, like you, you start to desire or you start to salivate over healthier foods. You know, it's like the broccoli. You hate it as a kid. It's like, now you can't get enough of it. You know, I take handfuls of spinach every day and I put it on everything. And, you know, I make big, huge salads now, and it's like, I never used to do that. I never even want it. Right? I really believe the cleaner you get, the more your, you know, micro flaw is, is, is telling you, hey, we need this, we need it, we need carrots.

We need these healthy things. Now, my son Simon, he saw this. It's a true story. And I have the story in my book. But I was preparing for a lecture, and he saw a before and after. If a girl had severe psoriasis. Eczema. I mean, she was an autoimmune state, even for other patients. But he saw it before and after. He says, what is that? And, you know, and I said, explain to him what it was and, well, how did she fix it? And the odd thing was, is he had this is my last youngest son. So he didn't follow the program like the other kids did.

Personal Fasting Practice and Protocols 19:45

Right? He had some psoriasis on his head, starting in a couple places on his body. And when I identified, oh, that's what you have. But way worse. You know, he left the room and he came back and said, I'm going too fast. Yeah, okay. You know, and I said, well, you know, let's be clear, you know, anyways, bottom line is he I didn't think you'd make it. I didn't think he had not eat dinner that night. Okay. Then when he woke up and went through that, he ended up going 11 days. And now again this son was overweight.

So he was able to go 11 days, but it transferred to your point. It transformed his palate. He was carb addicted and he was never carb addicted anymore. If you saw him today, he's lean, he's thin, and that changed him. He went from this overweight child with carb addiction to a thinner child. Now again, you know that that's what broke the the addiction. And then his weight just kept coming off after the fact. So yeah. Really good. Good point. You know, that you made the fasting goes beyond just the physical benefits.

You know, it can change the palate. You know, also, I always tell people when they fast, you know, this is when you look at every religion on the planet, disagrees about everything, even prayer, except one thing, fasting. They all talk about fasting. Now, therefore, there must be something here, right? So there is a mental component to fasting that can transform, as we pointed out, just in one area, but many other areas as well. I will fast when I need breakthrough for something, either for myself, my family, or just in general.

I'm looking for an answer. I want God to move. You know I fast and I expect it. And by the way, that's biblical. And I in my book I talked about the story of Jehoshaphat, where there was three massive armies coming against Israel, and Jehoshaphat was the king at that time. And like many places in Scripture, he fell before the Lord called the people of Israel before the Lord and Judah. And he called a fast. And they cried out to God. And God answered on their behalf. And they literally the three armies ended up wiping out themselves, and they never had. They'll even lift a hand.

But I'm telling you, I've seen that many, many times with fasting. Fasting, you know, will bring clarification of ideas. I get ideas or fasting, maybe just the fact that I'm in a weakened state, if you will. But yet in the strongest state mentally, oftentimes in ideas come and you know, and again, if we want to you know and again I, I every religion believes this right. It's like we can move, the hand of God in our favor. Yeah. It's beautiful. And so speaking of, you know, what are your fasting protocols look like personally, how often do you fast how you know, what are your periods of length and and do you primarily do water or do you, do you know, I do, I do about six off here.

Yeah, I do full back longer for a year. Minor five days. You know, I I'm right. It like, a perfect body weight cell. I barely on a five day fast. I barely I probably lose about 6 pounds and probably three of its water. Right. And I tap into some visceral fat and in some, you know, fat, systemically as well, but. Okay, so I do four fast here. I do typically two water and two partial. Okay. And, in my book I build out a partial fast. You know, Valter Longo, the scientist that I mentioned earlier, he has his pro loan, which is basically a five day fast with box.

Here's the box food that you can do. It's a great, great option. I prefer the one that you buy through doctors. Because there's it's just cleaner food. I think in it. But in my book I talk about how to build your own, partial fast and how to water fast. Look, fasting is like it. Think of it as a stress. Everybody listening? Exercise as a stress. If you adapt to the stress, you become better. You become stronger in every way. Right? But we don't want to run a marathon, right? So if fasting, if you contribute that to A5K, ten K marathon, whatever, it is something that's going to stress you.

If you train for that, you're going to have great results and you're going to finish in matter of fact, after you'll be stronger, not weaker. But you know, if you go into a fast not prepared, it's going to be could be very difficult for you. You won't get as good a result. So my book, I talk about what you should do a month ahead of a fast to really make sure you go into it fat adapted. You can enter a autophagy day one or day two. Instead of waiting to day for, you know, and and there's, there's strategies I've learned since the 1990s.

So what's the, what's the title of your book that has this, kind of design your own fast in it? Yeah, it's called Beyond Fasting. So it's it's actually not released directly to the public yet. Right now, it's just in my inner circle. But you can go you can get it. You just got to be on fasting Booking.com. And you can you can get it there you go beyond fasting. Become everyone go, you know, get a copy of that book. So you can you can learn more about this obviously and design your own fast. I, I actually, have been, designing my own cleanses and fast for years now.

I started with one I spent two years designing called the Panacea Cleanse. And then I did another one recently called the Prime Cleanse. And they're more cleanse, you know, they're highly calorie restrictive, you know, high nutrient density, fast cleanses. Right. And this this recent one was a ten day. And I wanted to do a new one, one that helps people, you know, hang on to lean muscle mass while they're fasting, but also really get into the deep cellular rejuvenation and nutri fication, if you will, with, you know, highly potent herbs that help to heal.

And I think, you know, especially people dealing with cancer. I mean, how, how much should they really look out for in terms of just doing water, which can be very challenging mentally,

Diet Variation and Metabolic Flexibility 25:45

physically for somebody who is already quite sick. Right. But also could be very beneficial versus something it's a little more easing into it, which could be like a calorie restrictive kind of cleanse where you're also renewed, terrifying your cells at the same time. Yeah. I mean, you know, in the book, I talk about these diet variation strategies that we do to create a hormone optimization, before you fast. Because the whole idea, the fast is we want to get into this, Max autophagy and remind me, you know, how to measure that so you can know if you are.

But we want to get into that as soon as we can. So that month ahead, what you do can train you for that. Look, you know, water fasting, many people will say, hey, I did that. My first passion. It was super easy. And, you know, so it is different for everybody. And I think there's benefits to every fast. Right. So I'm not just a proponent of one water fasting. When you just do water without taking even supplements, nothing. You're relying 100% on your innate intelligence. That is the inborn intelligence of your body.

And something magical happens when that occurs. However, some people are so metabolically not able to enter into fat burning. And I talk about that, that we want to get you there first. And then a water fast is very, very easy because you're just not eating. For me, partial fasting is more difficult because I'm when I eat, I'm a train. I don't like to stop. Right. It's like it's hard to stop eating or drinking things when I'm just doing water. It's I just stay away from the kitchen and I'm good to go.

Okay, so but my body transitions to burning its fat very quickly and I don't waste my muscle. But again, I've got myself there to that point. Right? So, you have to know where you are because along water fast, you could start tapping into muscle. Now with the studies show, is that typically the first 24 hours you're going to tap in, the average person that doesn't fasted, you're going to tap in mostly to your, you're a lot of it will break down muscle that first 24 hours after that. Now your body gets less and less and less because growth hormones rising each day and you.

But your body's smart enough to protect its muscle, so you really don't tap into as much. And your body's using bad cells. So if it does take protein, you're meaning from your muscle gluconeogenesis. It'll take bad protein. So that's the other thing you have to, you know, understand too. But to your point, right. So we again, we don't want to just run that marathon. Some people doing a couple partial fasts where you're still eating a little bit is mentally easier for you, right? I mean, my gosh, I can go without food.

Okay. I could have a little bit mentally. That's easier. Right? Yeah. You become more proficient at fasting for me. No foods easier because it's like I can't stop eating. So you kind of have to know who you are, right? But also intermittent fasting daily. Yeah. Your people know all about it. That that's very helpful because you're going 12 hours, 15 hours, 20 hours without food. You're getting your body conditioned to switch over to use fat very quickly, which that again, it protects your muscle.

So when I enter into a fast I can end up in max autophagy day two. And I'm just massively burning about cells. But again there's that training that you need ahead. And intermittent fasting strategy is part of what I talk about. Yeah beautiful. One more time. What's the what's the web link for for that book fast beyond fasting your scenario I'm going to write it down so I can you know, I'm fasting. Bbc.com. Yeah, I'm fasting. Bbc.com. I mean, obviously you you do. You've already mentioned quite a bit.

And I know this is another major specialty of yours. You know, you've talked about ketosis and ketogenic, I've talked about fat, adaptation and so forth. You know, I've had this theory for a while and it's, it's becoming a little more and more confirmed. And, you know, you you mentioned something earlier that's confirmed this. I've, mentioned some other kind of key researchers and doctors in the area. You said something about, you know, you believe we're really designed, you know, genetically to go through famine, right?

To go through fasting, to go into fat, out of adaptation. Right. So if we the theory I've had for a while, which if you look back at our ancestors and you don't have to go too far back to see this, but especially like in, you know, when you're living sustainably off the land which our ancestors have for millions of years until more recently. So the Industrial Revolution and maybe even, you know, within the last couple thousand years, let's say. But, where, you know, you, you don't have as much food through the winter, you know, in the food you may have stored, maybe higher fat foods.

Right? So as a survival mechanisms, our bodies are designed to go into ketosis, right? Our bodies are designed to go into some form of fasting or into some form of fat adaptation. And one has a survival mechanism. But too, as we know, in short term, short term studies have shown, you know, the, the major benefits, if you're, you know, in that state for, for shorter periods of time. But I wanted to ask you because there's two sides of this and I want to know where it, where where the research has led you and where you stand on this.

I've done a lot of interviews with world leading medical doctors that work hands on with cancer patients, and they're in the integrative, holistic field, and they may do a short term therapeutic, you know, plant based ketogenic diet for maybe a month or two to help patients quickly see some results. But what they have, continued to share with me multiple times is that long term, if you stay in ketogenic long term, there are major consequences of that major price growth. I believe that that diet is not to be the case for every diet.

I believe that's the case for vegan diets, vegetarian diets, keto diets, carnivore diets, paleo diet. My whole I'm writing another book right now called Dyed Variation. I do talk a little bit about this. Okay. The chapters in my Beyond Fasting book, but diet variation, I believe, is really where the magic is for many different reasons. I believe, again, genetically, we were to change our diet. When we look at the science around when we do change our diet, major magic happens. You know, when you come out of that state where again, ancient cultures were forced, let's be clear, to change their diet, right?

Lack of food, change of food, environmental changes. I mean, you know, harsh winters, whatever it was. But the fact is, is that our DNA is set up for that. We know one of the best ways to get diversity in the microbiome. Again, diversity equals great immunity. Is dietary change. One of the worst things we can do is stay on the same diet all the time. So therefore, I'm not, you know, picking one diet. I'm not a fan of one diet. My biggest thing is that diet change is where the magic is. So therefore it gets better and stronger.

No different than exercise. So anyways, diet variation is a strategy. And I again, I talk about it in my book, but it's a strategy to really get our immune systems to a whole nother level. I mean, I love that you just said that, and I'm excited about your book on that subject because, you know, I'm a CrossFit athlete. I compete in CrossFit. And that's a fundamental principle of CrossFit and why people write functional training or CrossFit or whatever you want to call it, or whatever forms you want to do.

It's all about diversity. It's about adaptation. It's about change. I you go to the gym and you go workout. If you're doing CrossFit or functional fitness, and you almost never do the exact same thing twice, right? It's you repel people. You would tell people if you do, your results are going to plateau the minute there's it's no different with diet. It's no different at all. It's the same reason hot, cold works, right? You know, when you go from hot cold, you get this massive hormone optimization spikes in neuron epinephrine and decrease in inflammation and growth hormone spikes. Why?

Because the body does the same thing. How it adapts to exercise when you go from hot cold. Well guess why? Guess what? It does the same thing when you change your diet. The moment you change your diet, you're getting all this hormone optimization and all the microbiome diversity and all of it. So I mean, what type of diversity

Starting with Intermittent Fasting 34:15

I talk about weekly diversity, monthly diversity and seasonal diversity. And it's a little different for everybody. You know, what works for me is may not work for you. But the point what works for everybody is the change. And making that change, these changes, you know, look, it's easier to because I'm I'm constantly changing. So it's easy. People are like, you know, how do you stay. So it's easy because, you know, if I'm doing this, it's very new because I was just doing this. If I had to eat ketosis all the time, oh my gosh, I'd go out of my mind, you know, I mean, you know, I there's a, the carnivore, carnivore code.

Yeah. Paul Saladino yeah I look there's some gems in there. But again, no disrespect to Paul, I think he's a great guy. But he just like so many diehards, you know, we should always be carnivore. You know, I don't agree with Paul on that. You know, disrespect. You know again no disrespect you know. But I mean just speaking that point alone, just in the plant based world, I mean, so far we know of 300,000 different species of edible medicinal plants on the planet. Right. So talk about diversity. The problem is, if you go to the grocery store, the average, accessibility, the average amount of plants that somebody eats on any diet is no more than 20, right?

So we're talking at 300,000. And most people don't ever eat more than 20 different species. Now I even less I read eight somewhere. But yeah, whenever you're I mean, the takeaway here, obviously what you're saying is diversity. It's, it's changing it up. It's adaptation. But more importantly, you know, going back to fasting, you know, if people who are tuning in here haven't fasted ever and they're thinking about it, or they know the power of it and they want to do it, or they've been fasting and they're like, okay, what's the next thing?

What are some really good places for people to start? What would you recommend to people? Yeah. Look, I mean, I think that intermittent fasting daily is a great place to start because you go, oh, I just skip breakfast, I didn't die, I was a little hangry. Okay. You know, you do that three times a week and you go, that's not so bad, right? And then it's like, oh, okay, I went 15 hours without eating, you know, tomorrow I'll go 18 and then you go, oh, okay. You know, I mean, it just gives you a little confidence.

And not only that, I in my book, I talked about mitochondrial fitness. You know, meaning, if we stress our mitochondria, that's where we either burn sugar or fat. Remember, our cells can only use sugar or fat, right? Specifically the mitochondria. That's where we make energy. So we have good cells and bad cells. We have efficient cells and not so efficient cells. Right. As we pointed out, we want to eat and get rid of the bad ones. But we want to make better ones and we want to make our existing ones even better.

If we look at a well healthy, trained athlete, they have more mitochondria, but their mitochondria, if they're not eating, then they shift over to fat burning quickly. Right? Unhealthy people, it's the opposite. It's like we don't we will not eat this fat. Matter of fact, I'm going to give you a craving you can't resist. So then they're getting hangry and breaking their diet or okay, you're not going to listen to me. I'm going to break your muscle down into sugar. I'll show you. Right. So, you know, we want behaving cells.

Well, just like children and just like athletes, you better train them to get them better. Right. So therefore, mitochondrial fitness, if we're just starting to go 15 hours, 20 hours, we don't just go into the gym and do your workout. Are you kidding me? We just saw the next day with, you know, CrossFit. We we diet say, that's bad for me. I'll never do it. No, we go in and work a little bit at a time. Yeah. So that's kind of what I take people through. We want to make we want to stress or mitochondria, but we can do it with very short fast and then go longer and longer and force the cells to burn fat than not.

So that's how we do it. Yeah, I love that. I mean, you want to ease into it. So intermittent fasting is a great way for people to start. You're saying 15 hours a 20 hours? I know, you know, 12 to 14 is like absolute bare minimum. Is there like a sweet spot where you see the most benefit? Is that like that 15 hour range? Yeah. I mean, again, I think that we look at studies and we go, oh, we see some sites that show the top you can start at 15 hours. Look, some people would start sooner, right. Some people it may take more.

So look, I think that, you know, we get towards the metal sweet spot right? It's like, you know, 12 hours is a long time for people. I don't know that I personally would consider that a fast. Right. Right. But I think where I would consider a fast actually starting would be around 15 hours. When you're looking at a meal, skip. Right. You know, but, you know, even going a day where you just don't eat one day, right? It's like that becomes easier and easier, but to not eat for one day. You don't have a lot of hangry people. Why?

Because your cells are stuck in sugar burners. So it's not your fault. They they just want to burn sugar and, you know, so they'll take from your muscle and they'll do all these bad things, including giving you cravings. But we can change that. We can change that. And changing it is just by doing it again and again and again. Right? So that's when the bad ones die. I always say bad cells don't adapt. They get you. They go right to the top. AG or simply your body. Just, you know, they die off, right?

And your body gets rid of them. So bad cells don't adapt. Here's the good news. Good cells get stronger. Beautiful. And that's exactly what we want. Well, Doctor Palmer, I want to thank you so much. You know, thank you for your time. Thanks for being here with us, sharing, you know, all your great wisdom and experiences, learned. You know, this was the first time we actually I got to, spend time with you, and I really appreciate it. I've actually, you know, I love interviewing, experts who are in the field working hands on because I, I not only do I learn, but then, you know, we get to contribute and help change and save other people's lives. So thank you for the great work you do.

I just I really appreciate it, but you're a great interviewer. Thanks for interviewing me because you're knowledgeable so you know the right questions to ask for them. So thank you. Yeah. Hey. Yeah. Thank you. My pleasure. And I want to encourage everyone go to be on facebook.com, get a copy of doctor pompous book. And I want to thank everyone for tuning in to the conquering cancer Summit. Please share this with friends and family. Together, we truly can make a difference for the future of humanity in ending the cancer pandemic.

Thank you and I wish you ultimate health and happiness. Be well.